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The Dog Tag Diva Welcomes Corey Jones · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

0:28
Of. Good evening everyone and happy
0:36
Tuesday. I am very happy and excited to
0:39
welcome my guest this evening, Corey Jones with Safety Man
0:43
Consulting, a former Mount Laurel Police Department
0:47
officer, 15 years on the SWAT team and now he's got his own
0:52
consulting business doing de escalation and active shooter
0:55
training and concealed carry training and all the important
0:59
things that we need to be safe today.
1:01
Welcome to the show, Corey. You know, top dog tag diva.
1:06
Thank you so much for inviting me on.
1:07
I'm so excited to be here and talk about, you know, safety,
1:11
security and survival and all the things that I find
1:14
important. So, you know, let's let's just
1:17
ask away. I'm ready to go.
1:19
Well, I do think it's kind of funny that we're finally
1:21
meeting, you know, in this environment because we used to
1:25
both have TV shows on an old station back in New Jersey.
1:28
And you know, now how we've kind of, you know, here we are
1:30
together. And like you said, I'm talking
1:33
about all the important things. So, so to start off with, so you
1:37
were a police officer with over over 27 years.
1:41
What made you want to be a police officer?
1:45
Yeah, I get often asked this question.
1:49
There are two main influences in that.
1:51
My cousin, who's a retired New Jersey State trooper, he was
1:54
kind of like a Big Brother to me.
1:57
I didn't understand this concept then.
1:59
You know how you are when you're 2021.
2:01
But he's, he turned out to be a mentor.
2:04
He explained a lot about what police and state police did.
2:07
And then my uncle, my brother's godfather, we had a very close
2:11
family growing up. He was a police officer in
2:14
Philadelphia for 31 years from 1961 to 1991.
2:19
You know, he was in both of the move confrontations, if you
2:22
remember them going way back and just the stories that he would
2:26
tell me and and policing and we could probably talk about this a
2:29
little bit later. But policing took a a different
2:31
turn is different in 2025 than it obviously was in 1991 and
2:36
196191 or 93 when I wound up getting hired.
2:40
Wow. Yeah, no, I, I completely
2:43
believe that. And that's just how I know I'm
2:44
getting older because I've been a nurse for 28 years now and I'm
2:47
like, I didn't do these things when I first became a nurse.
2:50
And it's so I imagine that it's vastly different.
2:55
As you know, things have changed over the years, you know, and
2:58
I've always, I actually grew up in Mount Laurel myself and I've
3:02
always had a lot of respect for police officers.
3:05
And I'm going to admit that I'm totally addicted to TV show on
3:09
Discovery TV. It's it's body Cam, it's all
3:11
body Cam footage from cops like all over the country.
3:14
And I'm totally addicted to this show.
3:16
And I do find it fascinating and actually never realized how
3:21
dangerous just traffic stops could be.
3:25
And just like what an eye opening experience.
3:28
Like it could just turn like you think it's just a routine
3:30
traffic stop and it could just turn on a dime and be just
3:34
really dangerous. So it's really opened my eyes
3:36
and I do enjoy what like for some reason, there's a lot of
3:39
them that are in Florida. I.
3:41
Don't know what's. Going on down here.
3:43
But there is some crazy shit going on down here in Florida,
3:47
I'll be totally honest. I I don't doubt it.
3:50
And it's funny you bring that up, both those police shows and
3:54
that and Florida, because maybe a trivia question, maybe not,
3:58
but the very first season of COPS was filmed in Broward
4:03
County. Florida was the very first one.
4:05
I did not know that that is an. Interesting.
4:08
Piece of trivia. I watched it live.
4:10
I was so excited. I wound up watching it live.
4:13
I could not wait to be able to watch that.
4:16
And even then, when you look at that episode, you couldn't hear
4:20
it today. Yeah, it's just, I do.
4:24
I just have a lot of respect for your, for, you know, all of our
4:27
policemen and policewomen out there.
4:29
And what a tremendous job that you in and of itself and how the
4:33
climate has changed over the last many years that I
4:38
personally just don't understand.
4:42
But you know, you've, you know what was the impetus for like
4:47
leaving the police force and starting your consulting
4:49
business? Well, New Jersey, with the
4:51
pension system, you do 25 years and the salary that you make
4:57
versus your pension contributions at 25 years, if it
5:01
comes that flexion point where it breaks even.
5:04
And if you stayed any longer, you're almost working for free.
5:08
So it's almost guaranteed with every law enforcement officer in
5:12
New Jersey, at least under my contract, then you were tied at
5:15
25 years on the job. Nowadays they moved it up to 30
5:20
years that officers have to serve before they get that same
5:23
pension benefits equation. But that's pretty much what it
5:27
was. It was I couldn't have stayed if
5:29
I really wanted to. Right, so and that makes total
5:33
sense. And I'm, you know, a a piece of
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you must have been saying to yourself, you know, like I've
5:38
made it this long, I haven't gotten injured.
5:41
It's time let's you know it's it's it's called a day.
5:46
You, you, you're exactly right. I mean, it's kind of like you,
5:50
you see that, that prize at the end of the journey and you just,
5:55
you literally start counting down after around about three
5:57
years to go. So back in like 2015, since I
6:01
retired 2018, I was with my then girlfriend, now wife.
6:05
I really just started saying, all right, yeah, I got to get
6:08
out of this profession, find another profession where I'm
6:11
home more with her. I I started initially working
6:15
from home with some traveling. And it was just better because,
6:18
you know, my wife has two young boys who are my, my beautiful
6:22
stepsons now. And you know, I just love
6:24
spending time with the family, spending time with them, being
6:27
around crazy things. Never played soccer a day in my
6:33
life. And my kids who were only tears
6:36
apart decided they wanted to play recreational soccer and
6:39
they needed parents to coach. Well, I said, OK, I'm, I'm going
6:43
to go ahead and coach not knowing soccer, but I was able
6:47
to help the team win 2 championships in a row.
6:51
And I don't take, I don't attribute that to my soccer
6:55
skills because I never played soccer before.
6:58
But when they were just, you know, 10 or 10:00 and 12:00, I
7:02
was able to use Sergeant skills to be able to get that team at
7:05
that age to do what I need them to do because I had no idea how
7:09
I didn't know what offsides was until, you know, five games into
7:12
the season. You know, I'm probably
7:14
embarrassing myself period. But I'm I'm an honest guy.
7:17
No, I, I played soccer for years and years and when my son was
7:21
little, I coached the team and I was like, oh, I gotta they're
7:23
they're like four and five. I need to dial it back a little
7:26
dial back in density. Just a.
7:28
Little bit. I'm a little competitive, but So
7:32
what when all the years in, in the police force, you know, one
7:36
of the things that I think you know, is, is really impressive
7:38
is that you never had any violations against you.
7:42
Like is that a common thing in the the world in the in law
7:45
enforcement or is that not so common?
7:48
Why? First off, that's not entirely
7:50
accurate. I did have some brushes with
7:52
discipline, however. There's two types of discipline,
7:55
I say in law enforcement. There's making a a mistake.
7:59
However, you are driving towards a legitimate, righteous, legal,
8:05
safe, tactical goal. You just made a mistake.
8:09
Those are forgivable. While you may be subject to some
8:12
sort of discipline like, you know, a written reprimand or you
8:17
know, a day off or something like that, at no point that I
8:20
ever know notoriously or egregiously do something against
8:24
policy, against the law or that was really immoral.
8:27
So, you know, those basic 25 years of driving fast, working
8:33
on midnights, working on low sleep, chasing unpredictable bad
8:36
guys who as we came closer to 2000, you know, 14 Seminole
8:42
event with Ferguson, 2020 Seminole event with George
8:46
Floyd. Although as I, I was tired by
8:48
then, I retired by then. It, it just almost made it
8:51
impossible for you not to get complaints against you.
8:54
But yeah, you're right. When I retired, I retired.
8:57
I I believe with the great respect of my agency, my Co
9:00
workers and the public at large. Yeah, that's real.
9:04
I think that's really, like you said, amazing considering like
9:07
the the climate that's, you know, has seemed to evolve.
9:11
And again, I'm still in that. I just don't understand where
9:14
that's that's coming from. And I, part of me feels that
9:18
that's because of my nursing background.
9:20
And I just, you know, I'm, I'm a natural nurturer and carer and I
9:24
will always want to see the good in people, but there's a lot of
9:27
bad that goes on out there. And you know, it just, I think
9:32
it's just, you know, it's testament to the human spirit
9:34
for like healthcare and, and law enforcement.
9:37
And we stay in it despite all the, the shit that we see and
9:41
gets thrown at us. And even today, now there is a a
9:44
big movement in like there's a bit trying to protect ourselves
9:48
because there is a violence against healthcare workers is on
9:52
the rise and. You know exactly.
9:54
Every hospital system's got their version of you know how to
9:58
keep our you know how we keep ourselves safe.
10:00
And that's all well and good, but at the end of the day, if
10:03
somebody comes at me, I'm swinging.
10:06
Well, yeah, you, you got to protect yourself.
10:08
And you know, this will probably lead us into a, a, a somewhat
10:13
vigorous discussion is the public doesn't understand the
10:18
the lead up to where there's an assault or violence or an abuse
10:22
of a public servant or a first responder, which I include you
10:25
and I both in that in that family.
10:28
We have to stop that before before it launches.
10:31
We have to stop that before it starts.
10:33
And being able to read people draw on your experience in your
10:37
training and your skills and your ability while knowing the
10:40
law gives you a really good edge.
10:42
The opposite would be just reacting out of emotion only, or
10:47
even just logic only, and not being able to have tactical
10:50
empathy and put yourself in that person's shoes in this exact
10:54
type of situation. You don't learn how to
10:58
anticipate that, how to mitigate that, how to deescalate that, to
11:02
keep both yourself, the public, your team around you, and the
11:06
individual themselves safe. Yeah, I know.
11:09
It's we had an, it wasn't my patient.
11:12
I, I'm only practicing at the bedside once a month now, but I
11:16
get the incident reports for, you know, several departments
11:20
that I cover. And there was an incident in the
11:22
hospital where I work where a patient, a mother was getting
11:26
agitated and was screaming, yelling, cursing, and at one
11:29
point like threatens to stab the nurse.
11:31
And I'm like, this is crazy. Like, you know, and they, she
11:35
was escorted off the property and things and then immediately
11:38
went across the street to a different hospital.
11:40
I'm like, great, now she's just going to go perpetuate this some
11:43
other hospital. But there's just, you know, and
11:46
then there was the story recently here in Florida on the
11:51
East Coast, a nurse was attacked by a patient and there was
11:54
another ICU where somebody gentleman walked in with a gun
11:57
and started shooting up the ICU. And it's like, OK, what?
12:01
I don't, you know, they don't let us, you know, I'm in Florida
12:03
where I'm allowed to carry, but I can't carry my gun into the
12:05
hospital. Like, but what if somebody
12:07
brings one in like that? I'm just kind of a sitting duck.
12:10
Yeah, you're exactly right. And you know, that brings me to
12:14
one of the things that I like to teach is that teamwork, that
12:18
having an all you say, an all-encompassing plan.
12:21
Obviously we can't predict the future and a lot of people use,
12:24
I hate to take a military term, but asymmetric abilities to go
12:29
ahead and and make an attack or some sort of disruption.
12:33
And we're still trying to figure out why.
12:34
I know the Secret Service and FBI did a joint study on the pre
12:40
event indicators and motivate motivation for active shooters.
12:45
And you know, there's a there's a lot of good information.
12:48
There's two in that joint study that they did.
12:51
You know, I'm sorry that that that happened to you.
12:52
I'm sorry that that makes you have, you know, a little bit of
12:55
fear and trepidation going into work.
12:58
But I also think that situational awareness is a good
13:01
thing. And the fact that your head's
13:02
not in the sand, you are not naive, and you may not be
13:06
representing 100% of, you know, healthcare workers or humans or
13:11
professional first responders, but just keep doing that.
13:14
Keep your head up, you know, on a swivel and try to train your
13:18
your teamwork, your administration in the most
13:21
diplomatic way possible to keep yourselves and everybody else
13:24
safe. Yeah, I think that, you know,
13:27
it's, it's a really important topic, you know, and we've been
13:29
talking about this for a few. You know, we even in the
13:31
military, you know, I'm a reservist and every year we do
13:34
this active shooter training, you know, it's the same thing.
13:36
Run, hide, fight and. You know, we don't actually
13:40
practice that necessarily in the hospital, you know, and I think
13:45
that's, you know, like you said, keep your head on this level.
13:47
Like, you know, I'm in the military.
13:48
I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2015.
13:51
So I'm always on a swift pole, which, you know, sometimes isn't
13:54
always a good thing. I think is, you know, I'm a
13:57
little more heightened than most really important.
14:00
But even in those like once a month when I'm doing that shift
14:04
and I'm in the intensive care unit and, you know, patients are
14:06
sick and they're critical and families and you know, it is
14:09
very easy to get distracted and miss a queue and then all of a
14:13
sudden things are are out of control.
14:17
Yeah, that, yeah. Then it's sideways.
14:18
Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't say, you know, your service
14:22
continues to be important to me. And I, you know, definitely my
14:25
family and I are great, great supporters of the military.
14:29
In fact, my eldest son is, has, has decided he's going to go
14:33
into the Air Force. He's looking to to go there on
14:35
the either drone or air traffic controller pathway.
14:40
So I'm really really, really proud of him.
14:42
He I think he's going to be able to call his future having gotten
14:47
a 1400 on the sats. I think they'll also do pretty
14:50
well on the ASVAB. So he went and talked to some
14:54
people at JBMDL. He got to sit in the ATC
14:58
simulator and he was super excited on the way home he said
15:02
I already went on Amazon and I ordered ASVAB for dummies.
15:05
I said, well, they have an ASVAB for smart kids because may it
15:09
may be wasting your time. So you know, my, my father's a
15:12
veteran, you know, he served on an aircraft carrier.
15:16
Quick story one of the most proud things that I can tell is
15:21
that my dad was on the USS Hornet back in the late 70s when
15:27
Gordon Cooper who was the first American astronaut to spend 24
15:31
hours in space when his capsule splash landed out in the
15:35
Pacific, my dad carrier picked him up capsule came on the
15:39
carrier, the astronaut came on the carrier.
15:42
And my dad, he had the best job in the Navy.
15:44
He was in the band. She was a drummer, so they.
15:48
Played. Yeah, right.
15:50
They got to play a state concert for a state concert for Gordon
15:55
Cooper and his crew. So it's in his cruise book is
15:58
just one of the things I'm the most proud of.
16:00
That is so cool. That's a really cool story.
16:03
We're actually going to take a quick break and when we kind of
16:05
when we come back, we're going to talk about safety with
16:08
rideshare drivers, de escalation techniques and active shooter.
16:13
All right. And we are back talking with
19:49
Corey Jones from Safety Man Company.
19:52
And so let me ask you, so how did you get involved in all the
19:58
de escalation and the concealed carry and all the things that
20:03
your company encompasses? Was that just years of working
20:07
as a police officer, which did you have additional training
20:09
when you got out of the police force?
20:10
All of the above. Oh first yes all the above but
20:14
let me go back your your initial assessment is 100% accurate.
20:19
While I was in the Police Department, I have my cousin who
20:22
is my mentor, like I had indicated before, told me, never
20:26
say no when they asked someone to volunteer for something.
20:30
Even if you don't think that it's a school or training or
20:33
something that could benefit you, that you think, trust me,
20:37
the fact that you say yes, the fact that you're going to do it,
20:39
you do a good job and then incorporate into the agency's
20:42
mission is definitely going to pay dividends down the road.
20:46
So by doing that one, my agency said, all right, he'll say yes
20:50
if we need him to go do something that benefits us.
20:53
So then later when I started to have my interests, whether it be
20:56
fire instructor, defensive tactics instructor, SWAT team,
21:00
public information officer, what have you, because I did those
21:04
things earlier on my career, they were much more receptive to
21:08
allow me to go to those trainings and schools to be able
21:11
to do that. And then I made a lot of
21:13
contacts when I was there and I kept in touch with those
21:16
contacts and I became relatively good and respected throughout
21:20
the county as an instructor as new things happened.
21:23
So, you know, it's not a fun topic to talk about active
21:27
shooter, but once that Columbine event happened and I was on the
21:31
SWAT team, we realized we didn't have an answer based on our
21:34
current training for an active shooter.
21:36
At that point, SWOT really stand for sit, wait and talk.
21:40
We didn't have those dynamic entries that you're seeing on TV
21:43
now. And our job as the tactical
21:47
team, and I mean the tactical team commander in Burlington
21:49
County, was to help create a response for SWOT, push that
21:54
down the patrol, and then eventually incorporate our
21:57
partners such as schools, houses of worship and educational
22:01
institutions, and ultimately all businesses that wanted it to be
22:05
able to train them. So then after I retired, I
22:08
formed the company Safety Man Consulting with the idea of
22:11
doing that active shooter training to make people safe.
22:15
And then that just blossomed out from there.
22:17
So, you know, being in the military, you're aware you have
22:20
to have a crisis management plan.
22:22
Active shooter plan is a as a part of that.
22:25
But what I realized by teaching active shooter plans to
22:28
companies have a national company that has locations, both
22:32
retail and corporate locations in about 16 states.
22:36
And during the pandemic, just before the pandemic, like
22:39
picture January, February of 2020, when we're all kind of
22:44
thought something was going on, but we didn't exactly know yet.
22:48
I was in the midst of training this client, an active shooter.
22:52
And then once the pandemic went full on, obviously before Zoom,
22:55
the, the training kind of stopped.
22:58
But they realized and, and made it very clear to me that that my
23:02
active shooter training really was crisis management training
23:05
and really helped them mitigate the the potential negatives of
23:11
having a decentralized mission, something, you know,
23:15
distributed, you know, domains and distributed command and
23:19
distributed missions that you're doing in the military.
23:22
We realized that we needed to be able to do that in private
23:25
sector as well. So by teaching them
23:28
communication, by teaching them having a centralized location
23:31
where you have in a digital cloud, everybody's contact
23:35
information, you could push out timely, accurate actual
23:39
information to New Jersey, to Pennsylvania, to Florida.
23:43
And if you remember doing the pandemic, there is different
23:46
levels of what they wanted us to do during the lockdowns and it
23:49
made their job a lot easier, which then further encouraged me
23:53
to make sure I expand my active shooter training to say any kind
23:57
of adverse, traumatic, unexpected emergency.
24:02
So what would you say? How important is it for, you
24:06
know, churches, daycares, schools, private citizens in
24:10
their own home? How important is preparing and
24:13
practicing for active shooter incidents?
24:16
Well, if you don't have a plan, you'll revert back to craziness
24:19
and and something that is just not going to work.
24:23
Just look at Uvalde, you know, they supposedly had active
24:27
shooter training. They had, you know, 5020 a
24:31
hundred people there standing there with with full weapons,
24:35
body armor and you would think training to go into that line of
24:40
fire, put yourself between the bad guy and the innocent at this
24:44
point, children. And they've refused to do and it
24:47
took one agency BORTAC to go in and say we got this.
24:52
And as soon as they breached entered, they immediately
24:55
identify the shooter and stop the shooter.
24:58
And if you don't have a plan and you don't train and you don't
25:01
have a leader who's aggressive and is going to tell you to do
25:04
that, you're going to fail. So tabletop exercises, real
25:09
world exercises and then reinforcing what's going on,
25:12
putting that into a policy, incorporating train the trainer
25:16
within the agencies that you're training or the, the businesses
25:20
or the houses of worship or the, or the medical institutions that
25:23
you're training. We need to give them the ability
25:26
to kind of flex the basic training and the you know, in
25:30
depth training I give them, but really make it fit their
25:32
mission, their team, their their clients and their physical
25:37
location. So I think it's of ultimate
25:39
important. And how and what is the thing
25:42
that you are busiest with with your company?
25:44
Is it the concealed carry training, the de escalation, or
25:47
the active shooter? It kind of the headlines drive
25:51
that, believe it or not, during the yeah, during the pandemic, I
25:57
was really big on because we all discovered at least I discovered
26:01
Zoom about about two weeks into the lockdowns.
26:05
I didn't know what it was right? But since I couldn't do in
26:09
person training, I was doing active or de escalation training
26:13
because, you know, you go into a store and you weren't wearing a
26:16
mask and that that team member, that that team member client
26:21
interaction sometimes did not go well.
26:24
So my job was to train them to be polite, be direct, give the
26:30
the reasons why this needs to happen.
26:32
And this is a ultimate ultimate. Most important, you have to know
26:37
when it's time to act. And I had to to give them that.
26:41
So by knowing when it's time that you have to know something,
26:44
you'd understand the rules of engagement.
26:45
You know that doesn't translate very well to the private sector,
26:48
but when you explain it properly, you ask, you tell you
26:52
make them do it because safety is paramount.
26:55
Yeah, I'm, I'm surprised I didn't get arrested during the
26:57
pandemic because I was like arguing with people.
27:00
Like I was so aggravated with the whole gloves, mask
27:03
situation. I was just like, what?
27:05
Oh my God. I'm really surprised that nobody
27:09
called the cops on me because I was in a few people's faces
27:11
because I was just irate and, and stressed out.
27:14
And, you know, as somebody who was on the front line of the
27:16
pandemic, I was just. Oh, yeah.
27:18
I mean, again, I want to commend you again on that.
27:22
I want to commend you again on what you did both in the
27:25
military and in your private field as a medical professional.
27:29
You know, you had, you were at the forefront.
27:32
I if anybody in, in, in America, the medical profession
27:36
profession was at the forefront. So thank you for that.
27:40
Thank you. It was a it was a challenging
27:42
time for sure. What are some common de
27:47
escalation techniques that work well like in any type of
27:51
setting? One is it is confidence in your
27:55
mission. So you, we have to know exactly
27:59
what our goals are. And the the problem is some
28:02
people, depending on the personality, you know, I give
28:05
the acronym of Q-tip, quit taking it personally.
28:08
So the, the most important thing I tell is don't take it
28:11
personally. You know when I showed up in
28:13
uniform, when you show up in uniform, whether it be the
28:15
greens or the white, the medical profession, people aren't mad at
28:18
you or people aren't arguing with you necessary unless,
28:22
unless you have no bedside matter unless you're
28:24
unprofessional. But generally, they're upset
28:27
with the policy, the direction or the mission or the order or
28:30
the restriction. And we have to be able to figure
28:33
out a way to, it's not me, don't take it personally.
28:37
And then second that, that confidence that A, your mission
28:42
is righteous and I, that's a lowercase or I'm not getting
28:44
religious, but righteous, meaning that it is at least I,
28:48
as we believe it, the best mission to keep everybody safe.
28:52
And then #2 you have to have the confidence that your
28:55
administration is going to support you in your decision
29:00
when you're enforcing those regulations, whether it be
29:02
state, local, federal, or just at your specific jurisdiction.
29:06
And then finally, we have to have the competence to be able
29:10
to enforce those rules effectively.
29:15
And sometimes you have to enforce them strongly.
29:17
And what I'm seeing in, in especially in law enforcement is
29:21
we're lacking the competence and the confidence.
29:24
So the situation that you're watching on social media or
29:27
watching on the, on the local or national news or the, or the
29:30
legacy media is you're seeing, especially first responders
29:35
hesitating to enforce the law when they need to enforce it.
29:39
And by doing that, it allows the subject that you're dealing with
29:45
to become more irate and less rational and potentially even
29:48
form a formulate a plan to attack, escape, destroy evidence
29:52
or just drive on. And then we are also human
29:56
beings and we're subject to those same emotions.
29:59
And then we can overreact or under react or don't react.
30:02
So, you know, we have to get out of paralysis by analysis.
30:06
We have to have a command staff, a leadership that is training us
30:10
and is both codifying and writing and reinforcing, you
30:16
know, through briefings, through meetings, through publications,
30:19
through training, what the rules are, what they want us to do and
30:23
that they will back us. So that confidence competence
30:26
cycle or is self perpetuating. If we don't have that, we're
30:29
almost destined to fail. Yeah, I, I, I agree with you.
30:33
And you know, like, you know, knowledge is power.
30:35
Like when we were like I, you know, when we were growing up,
30:38
you know, I'll just, you know, and knowing, you know, being
30:41
educated on, you know, de escalation techniques, you know,
30:45
being educated on just basic gun safety.
30:48
I mean, I know when my son was little, before I ever even had a
30:52
gun in my home, he still knew gun safety because I didn't know
30:57
whose home he was going to be going into.
30:59
And were they proper gun owner? So he knew from this, you know,
31:03
4 like, you know, finger, you know, don't point it at anything
31:07
that your don't intend to kill. Know what's behind you.
31:09
Keep your booger picker off the bang switch and create
31:12
everything as if it was loaded. Like, you know, the basic
31:16
things. And you know, and obviously the
31:18
laws are going to differ depending on what state you're
31:22
in. And you know, of course I left
31:24
New Jersey and then they changed the law that you can conceal
31:26
carry. And I was like, of course I'm
31:27
leaving and now. Yeah, yeah.
31:29
And now I can do it. Now I can do it, but one of the
31:33
things that was in the news a few years ago, I, I can't
31:36
remember exactly how long ago it was, but there was a young woman
31:39
who was, was going after another young woman with a knife and the
31:43
cops had to shoot her because she was going after this other
31:45
woman. And the women on the View, we're
31:50
talking about this incident, and God help me, I cannot stand that
31:55
show. And Joy Behar is like my mortal
31:57
enemy because she's like, why didn't he just fire a warning
31:59
shot into the air? And I'm like, Oh my God,
32:02
because. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:04
Because you have to know where it's going to land.
32:06
And if you don't know where it's going, like you can't just shoot
32:08
it up in the air, like. No, no, this isn't, this isn't
32:12
in the sandbox. Like when you guys go into the
32:15
sandbox, you guys go into a foreign location and you're
32:19
trying to force the law, you're trying to enforce a a barricade
32:24
or or a stop where vehicles approaching have to stop.
32:27
Warning shots are quite, quite often done.
32:30
That's part of your rules of engagement.
32:32
But in the United States, First off, they're not effective in
32:36
the United States. And 2nd, they're dangerous
32:39
because as you indicated, clearly, we have to know where
32:41
that bullets going to land. They don't just go up in the air
32:43
and disappear. And finally, it's illegal in New
32:46
Jersey. Warning shots are patently
32:48
illegal in the state of New Jersey.
32:51
So for all those reasons that that this just insane and and
32:55
it's just it's just not effective.
32:57
I know the case you're talking about.
32:59
I was actually on one or two podcasts actually speaking about
33:02
that. And you know, I hate to go off
33:05
on a tangent, but the media has a narrative.
33:07
So they're going to paint that story in a way that supports
33:10
their narrative that, you know, law enforcement is insensitive,
33:14
law enforcement is untrained and it's our fault that these two
33:17
young ladies are acting out of control.
33:20
And one was putting another and as great danger, serious bodily
33:24
harm or death. Yeah, It's just, it's just kind
33:27
of a shame. But, you know, people just, you
33:29
know, I feel the pandemic kind of ruined a lot of social grace
33:33
and social media has, you know, been a large contributor to
33:37
that. And we've kind of lost that
33:39
ability to just treat each other with grace and with kindness and
33:43
objectivity. You know, like I, if you tell me
33:46
a story, I'm like, OK, I want to talk to the other person and I
33:49
want to hear both sides of the story.
33:50
Even, you know, I do feel like the news doesn't give us the
33:53
whole picture. And unless you're watching some
33:56
of these like high profile cases that are out there like George
34:00
Floyd and Lori Valo and all these other cases that are out
34:03
there, like if you're not in the courtroom listening to the and
34:05
hearing all the evidence that's being presented, I have a hard
34:09
time passing judgement because, you know, I'm only getting one
34:13
side of the story. And I sure as heck I'm not
34:14
taking, you know, past, you know, forming an opinion on
34:17
based on what's coming out of the media's mouth because
34:20
they've kind of shown that we really can't, you know, can't
34:23
always trust everything that they're saying.
34:25
I like to do my own research. I'm a nurse.
34:27
That's where that comes from, too.
34:29
Well, that's great. And I and I, I hope you echo
34:32
that message and I hope everybody listening writes that
34:35
down is you can't believe exactly what you hear on the
34:38
media. And one thing my dad taught me
34:40
is we all know that this, this media outlet is different than
34:44
this media outlet. Their, their lean bend lean is
34:48
towards one side and the other one is towards the other side.
34:51
But my dad taught me, don't just follow one.
34:54
Listen to them all. And then you can make a little
34:57
bit more educated decision when you when you do that.
35:01
Exactly. We're going to take a quick
35:03
break and when we're going to come back, we're going to talk
35:05
about some more gun safety and rideshare safety.
35:08
Got it. And we are back talking with
38:17
Corey Jones from Safety Man Consulting.
38:19
So before the break we were talking about the escalation and
38:22
then we started to move into gun safety.
38:26
So obviously when it comes to gun safety, the basic rules
38:29
never change. Obviously you need to know the
38:31
laws for your particular state that you live in.
38:36
My husband is super happy that we live in Florida because he
38:39
has a suppressor now. Oh God bless.
38:44
He's lucky I'm jealous. He I think he loves that
38:46
suppressor more than he loves me.
38:48
Well. It's probably a close second,
38:51
but yeah. But so when it comes to gun
38:55
safety, so for me as a woman, I will say when it came to, I
39:00
never fired a weapon until I joined the military.
39:02
And that's when I was said, oh, no wonder why people do this all
39:05
the time. This is really fun.
39:07
But it's I was also terrified because I had never been exposed
39:10
to it. And I knew growing up that my
39:13
father had a gun. I never knew where it was, but I
39:15
was told if you ever find it, don't touch.
39:17
It was like, OK, So I never went looking for it.
39:20
I never touched it. When I had my son.
39:23
I, like I said, I wanted to make sure he knew the rules and at
39:26
once he was old enough and I started training.
39:28
We, you know, when he's a teenager, we got him the
39:31
training. So training is very important,
39:33
first and foremost, so that you know how to handle it, how to
39:35
use it and you are safe. And I don't know why people
39:40
still clean their guns while they're loaded.
39:41
I will never ever understand that.
39:44
But for me, I always, you know, go to a store, put them in your
39:49
hand so that you can, because it's, they're not
39:51
one-size-fits-all for sure. No.
39:55
No. Caliber picking, you know, home
39:57
defense, concealed carry. What do you tell people when
40:00
they say, hey, I want to learn to shoot?
40:02
I exactly what you just alluded to.
40:04
I asked them what their goal is. What are you trying to
40:07
accomplish? Do you want it for fun?
40:09
Are you just a gun collector? Did you pick this gun, this
40:12
Desert Eagle 50 caliber gold plated gun because you saw it on
40:15
TV, you know, or, or are you a collector?
40:20
All those are fine reasons. I just tailor my training and
40:24
then my advice to them to what their goal is.
40:26
Now, obviously, you know, I'm safety man.
40:29
My job is to make sure you're safe, legal and effective with
40:31
your ability to defend yourself, your family, and any innocent
40:34
third person you endeavor to protect.
40:36
But I also want people to enjoy it.
40:38
I want people to be safe. So once I do that initial
40:42
interview for prospective client, find out why do you want
40:45
it? What's your experience?
40:46
Do you understand the law? Do you know anybody's been in a
40:50
in a self-defense shooting? And then once I get that, is
40:53
your family on board? How old are your kids?
40:54
What's your situation? How are you going to carry it?
40:57
Where are you going to store it and all those different things.
40:59
Then I develop a plan for safety.
41:01
So the first thing I do is interview them and find out what
41:04
their their objectives are. Then I develop a training plan
41:08
with them, not for them, but with them to get make sure that
41:11
they're late, see safe, legal and effective with the firearm
41:14
or firearms of their choice to a have fun with it.
41:18
B make sure it's safe and then C make sure that it they can use
41:22
it in a in an effective manner to defend themselves or anybody
41:26
else. And where do you typically do
41:29
your like? Do you have a range that you use
41:31
to do your lessons at? Yeah, there's a range called
41:35
Ready Aim Fires just across the bridge in Bristol.
41:39
I've been training with them since the pan, since just before
41:42
the pandemic. In fact, I remember going with
41:44
no masks cuz then I remember a week later we were wearing masks
41:47
at the gun range. And you know, you know, you're
41:50
in the military, you always wear your eye protection when you're
41:52
shooting. So now imagine wearing a mask
41:55
with eye protection. We think happens.
41:57
It's always fogging up on right. So, you know, my clients would
42:01
complain. I said, listen, we're training
42:02
for worst case scenario. This is simulating you wake up
42:05
at 2:00 in the morning and couldn't put your glasses on.
42:08
How are we going to identify your threat?
42:10
How are we going to make an accurate shot?
42:11
How am I going to know where my tap rack right and where I'm
42:14
going to do my reloads are? So it's adding that additional
42:17
stress where it's a little bit harder to breathe, simulating
42:20
being out of breath because that adrenaline jump little bit
42:22
harder to see simulating low light, no light or you not have
42:26
your, your vision corrected and and still being able to be safe,
42:30
legal and infected with that firearm.
42:32
So that's, that's one of the things that I that I really
42:35
stress. So and then if I need to go
42:36
outdoor, if we're doing long weapons, shotguns, sniper rifles
42:41
or something that's on the M4AR15 variant, then I have
42:45
ranges that I go to called Usana, which is down in
42:48
Cumberland County, South Jersey. And you know, I'm really good
42:52
acquaintances with the owner. So he gives me a private 100
42:55
yard range where it's really only about four lanes.
42:58
So it's just enough for my shooter or shooters and I and I
43:02
don't it's Giant Center blocks protecting us from the other
43:05
range. So I feel safe and then we can
43:07
get that good training done. So those are the two ranges that
43:10
I use about 90% of the time, but I'll go anywhere as long as the
43:15
client's range allows outside instructors to come in.
43:19
Yeah, I've been down to USANA a few times.
43:22
I, I mean, I enjoy that range. I mean, we, you know, had we had
43:25
a couple options in New Jersey. We have some options down here
43:28
now in Florida. I'm, you know, just.
43:30
Me and the. Military and having been
43:32
deployed, indoor ranges for me are really hard so I really
43:35
prefer to be outside. My husband's gearing up to go to
43:39
the range. I think in another couple months
43:41
he wants to certify on the the long range.
43:45
There is definitely a difference for people who have never fired
43:48
before between a a bolt. Action and a semi auto and.
43:52
My husbands got one it's like a freaking can and I'm like I
43:55
can't even be around him when he shoots because it's so loud.
43:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make your eyebrows grow.
44:00
It's so loud. It's too loud.
44:01
And I'm such a girly girl. Sometimes I'm like, oh, this guy
44:04
is pretty. He's like, yeah, but do you like
44:05
how it fires? Yeah.
44:09
Desert Eagle is so obnoxious looking like I can't even.
44:13
Yeah, I mean, you know what they say about a guy who goes out and
44:16
buy a gun that's dead giant, you know, I'll let you figure it
44:18
out, but you know. So now when it comes to we've
44:24
talked about gun safety and that's one way to protect
44:27
yourself if you are in a state that allows for that.
44:30
So what are some things that you can do to protect yourself if
44:32
you are in a state that doesn't allow for that?
44:35
And like, let's say you're taking, you know, you're getting
44:37
in your Lyft or your Uber to go out with your friends or taking
44:41
a ride to the airport. And it's for I am.
44:43
What are some things that we need to be looking for doing to
44:46
make sure that we're ensuring our safety?
44:49
Well, most of those rideshares have very good in app built in
44:54
safety features. You know, I was on the I think I
44:57
was on Fox News Philadelphia about a unfortunate event where
45:01
a young lady got into a fake rideshare, was taken out,
45:05
assaulted and then killed. And since then, both most of the
45:10
the larger rideshare apps have included emergency buttons
45:16
sharing your your location and your journey with your friends.
45:21
You know a lot of your your drivers will have in car cameras
45:26
that both show the front and the back.
45:29
I give people lots of tips. One, they tell you the make,
45:32
model, color and license plate number and name of your driver.
45:36
So you can confirm that there can be code words.
45:39
If your driver comes up and says your name, that's also good, you
45:43
know, and you say the driver's name and and then I'm AI think,
45:47
you know, when I'm walking up into my Uber, you know, I'll be
45:50
on the phone and say, hey, yeah, Bill's here with the car.
45:53
You know, he's got an awesome car.
45:55
He's got a great Nissan Sentra, the same one we were looking at.
45:58
You know, Bill seems like he's pretty cool.
46:00
He reminds me of Charlton Heston or whatever like that.
46:03
And when when your driver hears that, and here's that, you're up
46:06
on point looking at him, shaking his hand.
46:08
Thank you for taking me home. This is just my, you know,
46:10
boyfriend. He's just coming home from an
46:12
MMA fight. You know he's going to meet me
46:14
where we're going, you know, it's all the bluff.
46:16
And then you read their reaction to you being so, you know,
46:21
prepared. So that's going to be somebody's
46:24
going to pick not you, but pick somebody else who's a softer
46:26
target. So the same thing we you do as a
46:29
military and you go someplace not really shock and awe.
46:32
I mean, that may be overplayed, but just showing that you have
46:36
my two favorite words, situational awareness.
46:39
If it looks funny, if it sounds funny, cancel the ride.
46:42
You may lose a point on, you know, your rating with that with
46:45
that rideshare app, but I'd rather lose a point and be a you
46:48
know a 4.9 is a 5 point O and be safe and alive.
46:53
No, I, I've, I've, you know, I travel a lot and I've used Uber
46:56
and, and Lyft and I don't, I actually should probably when
46:59
I'm we're done tonight, I think I'm going to go on to the apps
47:02
and look for that safety emergency feature because I
47:04
don't think I've noticed it. If it's there, I probably should
47:07
acquaint myself with that button because, you know, in the event
47:10
I ever do need, need it. But I do tell people, you know,
47:13
like, hey, I'm getting in the Uber or whatever.
47:15
And I, I do the same thing, but not everybody does that.
47:19
And I've seen. Too many people now, you know,
47:21
like they're their head is down, they're in their phone, like
47:24
they're not even paying attention to what's going on
47:26
around them. And I'm like.
47:27
Yeah, yeah. It's crazy.
47:29
It's crazy. I know.
47:30
I just, yeah, it's situational awareness.
47:33
If we could give you one bit of advice tonight, everyone.
47:36
And situational awareness, I think is probably one of the
47:38
best things that we could give you.
47:42
So let me ask you another question.
47:45
After all your years in law enforcement today, and we've
47:49
talked about how things have changed, you know, in healthcare
47:51
and law enforcement. Did they ever give you any kind
47:54
of support or training in terms of like taking care of yourself
47:58
and like mental health resources and things of that nature,
48:01
'cause I know in nursing, we kind of started talking about it
48:04
at the after the pandemic and now it's kind of like
48:06
everybody's kind of forgotten about it again, you know, and
48:10
the rates of PTSD and nursing is about 29% and law enforcement is
48:15
about 19%. So did you receive any of that?
48:19
And if you didn't, where do you know of, like, what
48:22
recommendations do you have for those in law enforcement and
48:24
healthcare today where they could find resources if needed?
48:27
I'm so glad you asked that question.
48:29
I'm very passionate about that and I was involved in a, in a
48:35
major incident. I, I don't really like talking
48:39
about it, not because it causes me any problem, but the person
48:41
involved, you know, was a political figure.
48:46
That person suffered some, you know, downfall from that.
48:50
I like to tell the second-half of the story in case people, you
48:53
know, can put two and two together, figure out who that
48:55
was. That that person is 100%.
48:57
I didn't want to say rehabilitated.
48:59
He was a great person. We just had a bad day, right?
49:03
But that weighed on me because it was such a high profile case
49:08
and the type of evidence we had was really just based on, you
49:12
know, safety man's training and experience.
49:15
It wasn't a lot of quantifiable external information that we
49:19
normally have when we're making that type of arrest.
49:22
So the, the fact that, you know, my, my faith was very helpful.
49:27
Some close friends were very helpful.
49:28
My wife was very helpful in supporting me and ultimately
49:32
when all the evidence came back, we won the first trial.
49:34
There was an appeal, we won the appeal.
49:36
And here's what I'll tell you. If you do things properly, if
49:40
you do things by the book, if you're lowercase and uppercase
49:43
are righteous in your mission, in your actions and your
49:47
documentation of that, it will work out best better for you.
49:51
Because the Attorney General of New Jersey had to investigate
49:56
this high profile incident. After that, I wound up having
50:00
ATV show that you referred to earlier, that attorney general,
50:04
after he retired, came onto my TV show and talked about his
50:08
company called Resilient Minds on the Front Lines.
50:11
And we train resiliency to 1st responders to medical
50:17
professionals and nurses, especially emergency room nurses
50:20
and nurses like yourself and anybody else who's looking for
50:24
it. In the middle of my show on the
50:27
commercial break, I said, you know, I'd like to get hired by
50:30
your company. And he offered me a job.
50:33
And to this day, I still do that job.
50:36
In fact, next week I'm flying out to a state in the Midwest to
50:39
provide more resiliency training and peer support for a state
50:45
police patrol agency. They've, they've suffer a few in
50:48
the line of duty losses in that state, Some traumatic incidents
50:52
involving criminals where there is death of people who, you
50:55
know, every, every death is obviously tragic.
50:57
But when you have children or elderly people that are being
51:00
affected by a terrorist type event, it can affect you, You
51:05
know, even the small things. I don't want to say a fatal
51:08
accident is a small thing, but a fatal accident, you know, some
51:11
type of an egregious assault, a child dying, domestic violence,
51:17
we suffer multiple, multiple, multiple adverse childhood and
51:22
adverse adult events. And we're going to give you the
51:26
knowledge, skills and ability and resources to get that
51:30
resiliency training and help each other and help yourself
51:34
with good habits, good hygiene, good exercise, good nutrition,
51:39
good sleep, good coping, talking with a peer support group to
51:44
help get you to the point where you can survive that.
51:48
So it was really refreshing. And this is a story I tell as
51:51
often as I can, that the things you do today may not pay
51:56
dividends tomorrow. But this was a full six years
52:00
after the incident that I wound up getting this job.
52:04
And I'm actually being flied out, flown out to the Midwest to
52:07
do a training from that same individual who formed this
52:10
Internet, this international company who is now Idolest
52:14
AIDLEST International professional, something of law
52:17
enforcement trainers. We, we actually now got that
52:21
certification. I'm able to go out and, and, and
52:23
spread this knowledge to help other first responders, you
52:27
know, go through their career because suicide as it is in the
52:29
military, unfortunately, it's also pretty high in law
52:32
enforcement as well. So my goal is to mitigate that.
52:35
I lost the, I lost the young lady on my platoon who was a
52:39
friend of mine and my wife's. And just after I retired, a
52:42
month after I retired, she wound up taking her own life.
52:45
And I, and I vow that doesn't happen again because I I carry
52:50
some of that weight. Personally, I was close with
52:52
her, but I didn't have anywhere that I knew of to direct her to
52:57
get direct counseling that could have mitigated it.
53:00
Yeah, it's really, really important that we're, you know,
53:03
taking care of ourselves and taking care of each other and
53:08
being kinder to each other. Really an important message
53:12
because it is rough out there and, you know, God bless our law
53:16
enforcement out there, you know, grinding away day after day and
53:19
putting themselves on the line. And you know, our our first
53:24
responders, healthcare workers, you know, we're out there every
53:27
day. And I personally feel as though
53:30
there's just not enough mental health resources for the general
53:35
public in and of itself. And we're just kind of spreading
53:38
this like pervasive, like mental health struggle.
53:42
And what that's why we're seeing all these, you know, increased
53:46
incidents of, you know, just all these random attacks, shootings,
53:52
just violence just kind of all around us, you know, and I just
53:57
so I want to thank you for bringing what was the name of
53:59
that company again? Resilient Minds on the Front
54:03
Lines is the name of the company and you know, I'm a master
54:07
facilitator there. And like I said, we're really
54:10
big on teaching peer support and you alluded to the fact being
54:15
forgiving of yourself. We are not perfect.
54:18
We are not AIAI is not perfect. We are not robots.
54:22
You know, we make mistakes, we're emotional.
54:26
You suffer traumatic adverse event, talk with somebody about
54:30
it, assess it, find out that I can't control what that 16 year
54:34
old did or does. I can't control what that person
54:37
says to me, does to me or does after I intervene.
54:41
You know, think about going to somebody's house to help them
54:45
leaving and then finding out two days later they still took their
54:48
life or committed a crime or did something negative.
54:50
That's not your fault. You know, you did the best you
54:54
could with the limited time, resources and training you had
54:57
to try to mitigate or, or to have them change course.
55:00
And sometimes there's deep seated issues that we just can't
55:04
pick up on, let alone rectify. We're police officers, we're not
55:08
psychiatrists, we're not psychologists, we're not
55:10
therapists. Yet we sometimes have to wear
55:13
those hats temporarily when we go out to a call for service.
55:16
So being not harsh on yourself is something we really talk
55:21
about. You know, my wife is a
55:22
functional health coach, and that's a little bit more
55:25
nutrition. There's a little bit more than
55:26
exercise. It's a little bit more than
55:28
diet. It's actually literally getting
55:31
in a positive self talk. Your brain hears when you talk.
55:35
And if you say I'm an idiot, I'm stupid, I messed that up.
55:38
Your brain hears that and your body reacts in a certain way and
55:41
it can be a spiral down. So that's one of the things that
55:44
she teaches as well. So it's interesting that our
55:47
career paths have a lot of parallels in them.
55:51
Yeah, I and I appreciate all of that.
55:53
It's all because it is all important like that.
55:55
You know, that whole, that mind body connection is just so
55:59
important. And you know, health goes along
56:02
with the mind and you have to fuel your mind and you have to
56:04
fuel your body properly and you have to take care of yourself
56:07
and we need to take care of each other.
56:08
And you know, I all great, great information and I really
56:14
appreciate you coming on tonight and sharing all your time and
56:17
your talent with us. It's my pleasure.
56:20
I, I mean, if anything, if I can help one first responder, if I
56:23
can help one medical professional life, I can help
56:26
anybody Seek guidance, seek help, seek support.
56:31
Please, please don't hesitate. Don't wait till it's too late.
56:34
You're there's confidentiality attached to this.
56:37
So if you contact one of our, our team on resilient minds on
56:41
the front lines, that's confidential.
56:43
The only time we would actually tell somebody something that you
56:46
said, and it would be very limited even then, is if you
56:49
obviously presented an immediate danger to yourself or some other
56:52
person. Beyond that, we're going to do
56:55
everything again to support you. If there's a substance abuse
56:58
problem or if you are feeling like you may hurt yourself, we
57:01
can get you placed in an institution within the day, with
57:05
or without insurance. So just understand that that is
57:07
there. Yeah, it's so important and I so
57:10
appreciate that. And you are on Facebook.
57:14
I put your safetyman.co in the chat and I put the resilient
57:19
minds on the front lines in the chat as well.
57:21
So if you need some de escalation training, some
57:25
concealed carry training and you are in the Jersey, Philadelphia
57:28
area, you need some resiliency training, reach out to Corey
57:33
Jones at Safety Man or Resilient Minds on the Front Lines.
57:37
Thank you so much for being on the Dog Tag Diva podcast.
57:40
And I come back anytime and we'll talk about some more
57:42
things. I, I really appreciate it.
57:45
I really appreciate you having me, me on it.
57:47
It just means a lot to get that message out there to keep our
57:50
first responders, our frontline workers, our medical
57:53
professionals safe and effective.
57:55
Even in the light of everything we're seeing on the news, where,
57:59
you know, certain aspects of the media may make you think that
58:02
you're not appreciated. You are appreciated.
58:05
No matter what was going on in America, we still had citizens
58:09
showing up at our police station, bringing us lunch,
58:12
bringing us dinner, coming in just to say thank you, driving
58:15
through the neighborhood and pulling up on the little kids,
58:18
having a a lemonade sale and buying them lemonade.
58:21
The parents will come out to take the pictures with us.
58:24
You know, I was in community policing and crime prevention
58:26
for a while and public information and that was one of
58:29
my jobs to try to foster a relationship with the public in
58:34
a non adversarial kind of way. Winning hearts and minds.
58:38
Yes, yes, yes. Well, thank you again, Corey.
58:42
This is the dog tag diva reminding you to greet each day
58:45
with purpose, passion and tenacity and be kind to each
58:48
other. Absolutely, stay safe, be ready,
58:51
and as always, train now. Thank you so much, Corey.
58:57
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59:02
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