Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / The Slippery’s Nancy Muscatello & Scott Eldridge Talk Scamanda Updates, Jen Shah, and the Anatomy of Scammers

Transcript

The Slippery’s Nancy Muscatello & Scott Eldridge Talk Scamanda Updates, Jen Shah, and the Anatomy of Scammers · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Drama, Darling drama, Darling.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Drama, Darling, scandals, schemes, scams. That is the drama today.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: You guys, welcome back. It's drama Darling.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I'm Amy Phillips. My co host today is Emily Deresis.
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: Hi.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: EM's hello.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: I'm very excited. I know you are.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: It's the day we've been waiting for for like a year.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: What will that be you guys?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's only Nancy Muscatello and Scott Eldridge to iconic
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: true crime producers and investigators here with us today. Hi,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Nancy and Scott, welcome in.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: Hey there, Hello. I'm so glad you've been waiting for us,
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: because no one else seems to be. But that's right.
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: Well that's because they're scammers and they don't they don't.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Want to run from us.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah they do.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Oh I'm so excited.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, So, first of all, Nancy and Scott, you guys
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: have an amazing podcast called The Slippery, which launched I
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: believe in April of this year.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: Is that correct? Yes?
• 1:21
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: This is now. Let me just give a little blur.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: This is your blurb. This is true crime stories about
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: the scammers who played the long game. Hosted by veteran
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: producers Nancy Muscatello and Scott Eldridge. Each case unfolds through
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: gripping storytelling and insider perspective, revealing how deception thrives and
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: how it eventually unravels. So yeah, kind of completely up
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: our alley.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: We are.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: We love true crime. We loved Scamanda Number one, the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: podcast into the series to the show that you were
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: absolutely the foundation of Nancy. So one thing that about
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: your podcast, which is that you guys talk about not
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: just one thing, but many things. So before we get
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: into the ins and outs of what you guys do,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about the Slippery and the
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: episodes that you produce and the topics you talk about.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: So, coming off, like you said, off of Scamanda, we
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: realize that in our world of true crime, there's not
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: a lot of scams that get covered or make it
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: to TV like there's a lot of them are federal cases,
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: they're money laundering. There are things that took years and
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: years for these people to perpetrate these crimes, and then
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: nobody likes to talk about them. They're embarrassed the victims
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: that is, And so there are stories to tell for
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: television because you need everybody to talk, right, and so
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: we were like, you know, there's just this void and
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: there's so much murder and mayhem out there that we
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: just felt like there was like a pocket that we
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: can talk about. These cases that we've we've covered in
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: the past, they've evolved over time. Sometimes these people are
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: still out there doing the crimes and they haven't been
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: caught yet, or if they do, they usually they usually
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: fall quite spectacularly because they're there. It's a shock tool,
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: like everyone that know them right that that they've been
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: doing this all along, and so that's what makes it fun.
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: They're a really nice, long train wreck. So I enjoy that.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: It's it's do you.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: Watch The Real Housewives?
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Because I mean, if you're looking for a train wreck now,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I'm kidding, we'll get into that later, but.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: You say that because he's working on one now and
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: I was like, oh, Scott, I don't watch the The
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: Housewives of where we're already Salt Lake because we're doing
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: gen Shaw. What prepping that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: That was we were talking of Emily and I were
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: just saying like, okay, literally they know that, yeah, Like
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: do they know of jen Shaw?
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Like would they have done something else. Scott got it.
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: We do have a good take on it, and you
• 3:59
  Speaker 6: know she's out. They're giving interviews again now. She just
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: was in People magazine a couple of months ago, kind
• 4:05
  Speaker 6: of whitewashing exactly what happened. But we dug up her
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: sentencing documents and I also did some deep research going
• 4:13
  Speaker 6: down the rabbit hole of the exact scam that she
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: was running, so I can fill you in. And there's
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: so many The interesting part about it is there are
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: so many people call for this scam. Every day e
• 4:25
  Speaker 6: commerce sites drop shipping, and she was praying on people.
• 4:31
  Speaker 6: It was It's ugly. I can't wait for the episode.
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: It's a few weeks out, but it's coming.
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so this is going to be on the
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: slippery This.
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: Will be on the slippery and I think with Nancy
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: also what we decided when we were putting this together.
• 4:45
  Speaker 6: We've both sold We produced true crime, obviously, but I
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: also have spent years selling it as well, and Nancy
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: knows because we've tried to sell several things together. In fact,
• 4:56
  Speaker 6: Scamanda didn't get bought by the first five people we
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: pitched it too, even though we had sixty five million
• 5:02
  Speaker 6: downloads on the podcast.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: You've got It beginning.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: That's got how hard it is really sell a show.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they don't get that. Sometimes they don't get
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: it the first thing, well jumping ahead.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: But no, it's okay.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know we created the podcast. That was Scott's
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: idea because he was, you know, talking with folks saying,
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: I've got this exclusive, like nobody knows this case. It's
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: ten years in the making, this woman's been faking cancer
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: first federally indicted personal and they were like, well, we
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: don't know it. He's like, yeah, exactly, Like it's it's yeah,
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: we've got it all. Like Scotty, you had the rights,
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: you were the that's yeah, that's.
• 5:43
  Speaker 6: Nancy and I worked at the backstory is Nancy and
• 5:46
  Speaker 6: I worked together at a show over at Warner Brothers
• 5:49
  Speaker 6: named Crime Watch Daily. Nancy was the managing editor. Nancy
• 5:54
  Speaker 6: and I go back decades. We don't want to hard decades.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: I won't say it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I want to say you should be so proud when
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Nancy and I talked on the phone and she talked
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: to you met on hard copy.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Isn't that right?
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I mean that's iconic, Like you guys were on the
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: ground floor before true crime was trendy.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: You guys were there, and I remember.
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: And when hard copy was good, I mean it was
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: the best. It was very good. And it's become what
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: true crime is now, right because back then, my first
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: my first story that I was I was on the
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: assignment desk, so I was new. I was just out
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: of college, and it was the Menendez brothers and they
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: had already committed the crime. They were just arrested. I
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: think I came in just towards the end of the
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: first trial, pretty sure. And you know, and you know,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: we were a tabloid show, you know show so to speak,
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: but we we were digging and getting so much information
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: back then about the abuse and about all the stuff
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: that took place. And it just showed like how the
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: world's kind of caught up to what those shows were
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: back then.
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, And we were surrounded by great producers and storytellers
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: and bookers that stopped at nothing to get a story.
• 7:11
  Speaker 6: Those shows get a bad name amy because oh it's tabloid.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: They paid people. It wasn't real.
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: Those stories were one hundred percent real. Yeah, we did
• 7:21
  Speaker 6: spend some money to get in first position in front
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: of people that does happen.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: It still happens. By the way, even the.
• 7:28
  Speaker 6: Legit networks, all those little schemes, Oh, we won't talk
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: about that, but.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Talk about like a.
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: I mean an amazing time Menendez, Joey buttafuco Oja, Michael Jackson.
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: I mean these are all consecutive, like this year, that
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: one happens, the next year, They're both happened concurrently.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Like it just never stopped. It was.
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: It was almost tiring when we were there because you're like,
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: oh my god, this it doesn't end.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: It doesn't end.
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: I'm working eighteen hours a day really, and everybody is.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: You just don't complain. You just enjoy it.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: You do it and you enjoy it. And it was
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: that chase when you had and there were several shows competing,
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: you know, for the same state cases. But we would
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: find I think what people didn't realize, like there is
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: no internet, right. So we had a city news service,
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: which was like a ticker tape, yeah, you know, stories
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: to wre Those were local the wire and ap wires also,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: but our biggest tool was we we would get mail bins.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: I would say hundreds and hundreds of subscriptions of small
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: town newspapers. Oh, and that's we would divide everybody, every desk,
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: anybody that worked there, from an editor on down would
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: take a bin and all day long, edge in between
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: working stories and setting up interviews, you're reading these small
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: town newspapers, and that is how you wind cool, I think, yeah,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: I mean that's how we found That's how I remember
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: how we found uh, Tiger King. Because again it was.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Like what it was, Yes, badly you found Tiger King?
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Like when did you find that?
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: When it happened? When it happened back then? And in fact,
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: in the documentary there's a there's a whole scene where
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: the hard copy pops up and they talk about hard
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: copy covering it. We did the story back then.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm going to be throwing pencils all day.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: This is so exciting.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: I mean that's how we would research, like you would.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: You would flip through and it would be like, you know,
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: Maggie May, you know husband died of some you know,
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: and it was a small article, and then you would
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: start calling everyone. You would call from the the journalist
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: obviously in that small town, but you also would start
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: calling you know, the locals. I don't know how many
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: seven elevens. I've called in my back in the day
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: and ask, hey, I'm reading this story. Who's Maggie. You know,
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: what's the story? I'm calling from Los Angeles and people
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: just are like, oh, let me tell you about Maggie.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Just seven eleven that was like your go to because
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: they would just sing like a canary. They're just like that, Well,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Maggie May she did come in in bathom draino almost
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: that's every day.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: It was specious.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: That's how I that's how we broke Julia Roberts marrying
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: LYA love it because I call my god all the
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: seven eleven they were like, yeah, the tour bus was
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: just in here. She was with that curly. I'm like,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: what curly? Like? You know it was. It's always like
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: that because you don't have a way to there's no Google, right,
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: you have to think outside the box. And I think that.
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: Nancy far he found the location of Alec Baldwin and
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: Kim Basinger's wedding, which was top secret. It's like that,
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: It's like what Tailor Swift's going through right now. Every
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: knows yeah, and everybody's trying to guess. And Nancy, what
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: did you call every florist on.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: Long Island, the florist and the chair rental companies, and
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: I was like, smart, hey, the chairs aren't here yet
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: and I've been waiting and what time are they used
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: to get here? And they're like no, no, no, no,
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: you know, we said Tony brought those over early. I said, well,
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: where did he bring them? Because they're not here. They
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: brought him to the such and such a dress. All right, well,
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna have to check I have not seen them delivered.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: And hung up. I'm like, get somebody right away. Wow,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I show.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is amazing, this is this is like you
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: know people, wow, bring back hard copy?
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Like can we just and have you been all the time?
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I wish that you guys could do like a side
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: by side, you know, an insert of you watching an
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: episode back and then you guys speaking on It would
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: be really cool.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: I'm just pitching.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I'm pitching shows to you guys for that would be awesome, right,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I love.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: There's a lot that you know, and I know we
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: joke about, like you know, behind the scenes, but it
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: was there was a lot to get to the facts,
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: to get to be able to report it. I think
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: people think we just would put things on that were,
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: you know, not true, and you just there's just no,
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: didn't happen that way?
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: Well, let me ask you this now, I mean it has.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Obviously it's changed since when you first started doing the
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: way that you investigated. Do you find that it's almost
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: more difficult to find information because it's so dense and
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: because there is so much information out there that it's
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: harder to actually track down or or is it just
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: a lot easier.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: Well, it's it's twofold because it may be easier to
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: get to people that want to talk to you, but
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: weighing how truthful they are or what were they really involved?
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I think has gotten more difficult. There's everybody's got a
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: camera out, everybody wants to insert themselves. Everyone wants to
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: kind of be involved there. I don't know how many
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: times I heard like I should be on this show
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: because you know, my life is a a is a
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: true crime thing. You know, It's like everyone it's become
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: kind of kind of cool and kind of you know something.
• 12:49
  Speaker 6: So everybody has an expectation. Now, Yeah, it is easier
• 12:53
  Speaker 6: to find the information. We have tools that we never dreamed.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: About back then.
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we can find you know, we can get to
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: people much quicker, but there's also a level of competition.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: There are many people.
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: Back then we were competing against a Current Affair and
• 13:08
  Speaker 6: Inside Edition and what American Journal was the other one?
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: Maybe yeah first, yeah, And by the way, it was
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: very competitive. We used to this is when you used
• 13:17
  Speaker 6: to feed out your show to the satellite and we
• 13:20
  Speaker 6: would steal each other's feeds so we could watch what
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: they were doing, and they would watch what we were doing.
• 13:26
  Speaker 6: And so we'd feed at one o'clock and then you'd
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: get a phone call refeed at two thirty mandatory and
• 13:31
  Speaker 6: we're calling all of our affiliates to make sure they'll
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: take our refeed because we're updating information that a Current
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: Affair had in their show.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: That would go on back and forth. The other thing
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that was really funny back then.
• 13:43
  Speaker 6: I remember at one point we had the gym owner
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: that Amy Fisher was going to in the Joey Buddafuco case,
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: and we had interviewed him on like, let's say Tuesday,
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: and it was going to air Thursday. Well you do,
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: don't just do an interview and like you go home.
• 14:02
  Speaker 6: We kept him in a hotel for a week, so
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: that nobody else could get to him. So we literally
• 14:07
  Speaker 6: got like sequestered and I'm like taking him lunch and
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: you know, running him over things.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I'm like, is this normal? Is this what we normally do?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: So many Pistrami sandwiches that that is amazing? And you
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: would obviously paid him for his exclusivity.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: I'm guying I.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Did that personally, but I'm sure there was something worked out.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: This is okay, this is very exciting. So let's let's
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: just jump into Scamanda, because I know that we are
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: connection with you, Iscamanda. We kind of stalked you down, Nancy,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and we're just obsessed with you guys, and then you know,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: we know Scott I this. You guys are the dream team.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: So when are you? Are there any updates with Comanda?
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Are you keeping an eye on her? Has there been
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: any any fallout? Has she ever reached out to you?
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: We just want to know some yeats there.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: No, she has not reached out to me. I don't
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: know if she ever would though, I would not commit,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: and I have sent word via people that know her
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: and whatever, saying listen any time, I mean I think
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: she could. It would do her some good if she
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: is truly rehabilitated and truly trying to change. I don't
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: think that's the case, but that's me. So yeah, there's
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: there's they're divorced, her and her husband, he I think
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: has a new fiancee of sorts. They live together, and
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: then the kids just I don't talk much about the
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: kids other than there I believe with him. I'm sure
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: they're trying to work that out. She's in southern California,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: he's in Texas. She did which I'm still trying to
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: get to the bottom of. She has a what's called
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: an NPI number, which is a National Provider Information number.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: So if you work in healthcare or whatever and someone's
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: going to be bill for your services, you have to
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: have one of those. And I know you're thinking, what
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: could she possibly be doing and help them? So she
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: is a behavioral technician person, meaning that she would help
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: with kids with learning disabilities and going to your home
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: or work with people, and I find that alarming. I
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: don't know how much she's carried that out. I know,
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: you know, she did eventually get her masters, but you know,
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: she just got out in December of twenty twenty five.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: She got that number, right, afterwards within a few weeks.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: So I'm sure she's hoping to I don't want to
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: use the term practice, but I think she's not registered yet.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: She just has the number. There's hopefully background checks and
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: things that will be done that will maybe not allow
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: that to continue. But because you know, it was just
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: a handful of months before that, while in prison, she
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: was still claiming to be sick and sick and RIGGI
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: test she was taking, you know, so the fact that
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: she's somehow miraculously a different person, I would find that
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: hard to believe. And quite frankly, people should know if
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: they're if she's being sent into people's homes to work
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: with kids, or if they're going to her offices to
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: I don't know what be evaluated and work.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting you leave after having a record
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: like that, leave and just do whatever you want and
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: that any restrictions.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: There are limits, Like I did you know she has
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: supervised parole and things like that for the next three years.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: I did. I did some reach so she can obtain
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: eventually the registration for this number, where then she would
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: be allowed. I think they look for like a minimum
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: of seven years once you're out of prison so which
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: I would imagine, so you can go through rehabilitation and
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: better yourself, all these things should take place. But it's
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: only been a few months, so you know, I would
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: be very weary, especially just knowing what she did to
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: her stepdaughter and to her own children, what to put
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: them through. How you're going to counsel and help others
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: that's terrifying children is terrifying.
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, And I want to remind Amanda that Nancy
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: will hunt you down via contacts on Etsy, because that's
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: how you reached out to her husband's ex, right if
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: you were like going to go through Etsy, like who thinks?
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: So that. Well, Alita did not have any type of
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: footprint out there. She was very, very very private. She
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: had been through hell, which I found out afterwards. So
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: she was really keeping just a low profile in life
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: because she had been through so much. And I think
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: that was just the one place that she had like
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: a little she likes doing crafts or whatever, and she
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: had the site, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: you know, shoot my shot now and see if I
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: can if she'll ever respond. And now it's a little
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: different because we're well, if we talk about things, we're
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: working on now. But now I leave a message and
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: I'll get back up voicemaiels like oh, Nancy musk Tello
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: because they'll google. I'm sure they'll just go this this,
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: this can't be good. And I'm just like you know
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: in the past, I'm just you know, any a person calling,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: you know, a pace around in Los Angeles. I'd love
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: to talk to you about this case. I think it
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: can be good and it can be bad.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because others can google just like you and then
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: they see right.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: So I would love to know.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Scott and Nancy, what is a day in the life
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: being producers, being investigative reporters and in the space of
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: true crime? How how do you organize the stories that
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: you're working on? And what does it look like in
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: terms of the projects that you choose, how you're hired.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Can you just sort of take us through as as
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: pedestrians of the field.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: We don't know. How how do you guys work together?
• 19:53
  Speaker 6: Like?
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: What do you do? How does the project work?
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I think we have two different styles of work.
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: Nancy is more Nancy can dive into a story and
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: we'll stay on the story for days at a time.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: She'll she's like single minded about.
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: It, and I am much more add I usually have
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: about ten stories that I'm juggling, and I can spend
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: thirty or forty minutes on one and then I'm onto
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: something else and then I'm back.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I just it's just what makes me work. It like
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: keeps me engaged constantly.
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: But I would say both of us what we have
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: in common is that we're always looking for the extraordinary.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: So we get pitches.
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: I got four pitches over the weekend from friends and
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: family over.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Fraud cases, slippery cases.
• 20:39
  Speaker 6: And we've been on for a little while, so I figure,
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: like everybody kind of knows, like what lane we're moving in,
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: but eighty percent of it doesn't work, and it doesn't
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: and you can't it's hard to explain. Nancy second to
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: me on this, like it's not extraordinary for this to
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: happen for like a home menu, you know, guy that's
• 20:59
  Speaker 6: going out out of business, going bankrupt, not to answer
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: phone calls.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: That's not a slippery story.
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: That's just a guy that's going out of business that
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: doesn't know what to do. The types of stories that
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: we're going after are long running, like Nancy said, they're
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: in the works.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: These are sociopaths. Let's just say what they are. They're sociopaths.
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: They It takes so much more to like a murder
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: happens in a split second, not diminishing it. It happens.
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: It's a fit of rage, it's a crime of passion.
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: It's sometimes it's planned out and it goes on for
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: months and years in a serial killer. But that's extremely rare.
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: There are so many con artists out there, and to
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: pull off a con you have to be dedicated towards it.
• 21:43
  Speaker 6: Every single day. You're living a lie, you're coming up
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: with the scheme, you're making calls, you're working really hard.
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: Being a con artist is a full time job. It's
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: a full time job, and these people are dedicated towards it,
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: and they're more comfortable telling you a lie than they
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: are living a truth. So that's what makes it so interesting.
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: I think we're both looking for that all the time.
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: But Nancy can go like I said, yeah, ye, straight
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: on one.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: And it depends on the project. So when you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: in the years of hard copy, you know you're always
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: they're daily shows, right, so you're turning stories all the
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: time and you've got a bunch going at until they
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: come together. And then I worked for years on some
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: cold case stuff and then just all types of caught
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: on tape type of stories also, and then eventually when
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: we did Crime Launch, Crime Watch was a show, you
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: know where we did an episode of twenty twenty, you know,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: an hour every night, five nights a week, and so
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: for that it's a totally different situation. I was the
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: managing editor, like Scott mentioned earlier, and you know, I
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: had what eight producers with me, and then they and
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: and then associate producers that help. And because there's so
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: much research that goes into these and then you're hoping
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: people will participate, you're getting you know, you're calling law
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: enforcement FBI agents, You're convincing them that, hey, would you
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: share this story with us and tell us how it unraveled?
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: And getting people to open up and talk about what
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: they've been through is not an easy task by any means,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: and they and we, at least for Crime Watch, I know,
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: and you know, Scott was the EP and I was
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: a managing editor, and we really approached the stories from victims,
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: families or people involved in the cases that wanted the
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: story told. We didn't just tell a story for the
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: sake of telling it. We always had all the players
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: involved in it, and that takes time, and we would
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: shoot all over the country. We in a week, I
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: was overseeing eleven literal, sit down camera interviews a week,
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: you know, So we had it was a massive team
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: to pull a show like that off. And those are
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: the shows that you know, they're just not on anymore.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: You still have your forty eight hours twenty twenty, but
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: that's it's pretty much it that.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: This right now, you just have the Hulu and Netflix
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: and the series.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: Right so then they'll they'll do their best. So they'll
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: do Yeah, no one's doing it like we did it,
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: and so those that's a machine that you're feeding, but
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: you're but you have to let the stories happen and
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: breathe because just slamming on a piece is not what
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: we did right, And so it.
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: Had time consuming. Like you said, it's very time consuming
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: to do it. I remember when Nancy and I first
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: met and I asked her because she was hanging out.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: She was in between jobs but not sure that she
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: wanted to work. At that exact.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: Moment when we hooked back up again, yeah.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: And I said, you got to come do this show.
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: With me.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I said, I described what it's going to be.
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: She's like, you can't do it. That's impossible, we can't
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: do that. I'm like, there's a way to do it.
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: I know there's a way to do it. It was
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: when we got back, I got to create an hour
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: every day of deep dive crime stories, well thought out,
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: well researched correspondence, crisscrossing the country. We're going to do
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: door knocks, We're going to expose people.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: It's like, I don't think we could do it. I'm like,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: we can do it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: And it was a monumental TATI because we had a
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: quarter of the budget that Dateline has to do once
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: a week and we were doing five days. Well, that's crazy,
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: and so we worked like it was a great staff
• 25:24
  Speaker 6: and we work like crazy.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: And I guess that's probably.
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: Why I can only work on ten things at a
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: time instead of one thing at a time, because you
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: were always, yeah, doing that, or you didn't feel like
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: you were existing unless you were doing that, right.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Also, when you're working on a project, don't you have
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: to let the time go by in order to follow
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: the story. I mean, it's like you said earlier, it's
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: like the long game. So you know, with a lot
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: of these scammers, you have to wait and watch and
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: see what they're going to do.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: Is that right?
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: You know here bringing us back to Scamanda started that
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: June June of twenty fifteen.
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: Fifteen, very early on, before we ever made it to air.
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: Nancy got the tip on that. Yeah.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, June of twenty fifteen, we wrapped Crime Watch. We
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: did four hundred and something episodes, so even more I think,
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: and then yeah, we wrapped by the end of twenty eighteen,
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: and we never got Scamanda on. It never aired.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, never air.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: You were going to do a crime Watch.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: It was that's where I went on the raid during
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: Crime Watch. We interviewed Amanda during Crime Watch undercover. We
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: like all that stuff that you see in the dock.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: We I was gathering that for years, yeah, oh, gathering
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: get slowly because Warner Brothers was adamant that they wanted
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: an arrest and it was with the federal authorities by
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: you know, February of twenty sixteen. I had turned everything
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: over like in November to them and we just had
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: to sit and wait, and it was it was killing me.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: That was that's you know again, our relationship going back
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: to the to the early nineties. He's just like, it'll happen,
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: just hanging there and I'm like, we need to put
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: this on air now. This is unfair that she is good,
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: you know, and you know, he's like, we'll get there.
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: I was like, we're never going to get there.
• 27:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah. It was new territory for us because we had
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: that was the first time I think either of us
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: had turned over a case to the FEDS, So we didn't.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Know the timeline.
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: We just assumed we turned it over in February probably
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: here back in like April or May.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: Let's get on this maybe.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Maybe sorry to tell.
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, they stayed silent for like three or four years.
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: Manson would get like an update every once in a while, like.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: We're working on it.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: We found out about the raid, so we went to
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: when they served the search warrant. That was September of
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, so that happened. So at that point we
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: knew about that. And again I know, we was like, well,
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: they must have told you, No, they didn't tell us.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: They don't tell you anything.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: I'll leave you down a secret. How we knew. How
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: we've found out is Alita's attorney was in touch because
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: she would they were afraid for Jessa being home when
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: something was to happen. So Alita's attorney at the time
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: was staying on top of it, and she might have
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: called me and said, what are you doing this week?
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: I was like, I don't know what am I doing.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: You may want to be in San Jose and I
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: was like, oh okay, So yeah, we went and sat
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: and sat and waited in order to be around for that.
• 28:41
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  Speaker 6: Yeah. So, so part of the job is that you're
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: pairing constantly for what you can put on TV. So
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: we knew we had a great story and so then
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: every opportunity that we got, Nancy would come in and
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: we would talk about where are the options. Well, there's
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: a fundraiser this weekend, and Amanda is going to be
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: at the fundraiser because she's one of she's giving a speech.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: All right, let's send up a producer. It can't be nany.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: Wearing the Superman cape, just talking about how she's how
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: she's blessed to have cans.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: She's crying.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: So we can't send Nancy up.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we can't send Nancy up there.
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so we set sent a different producer and a
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: cameraman up there, and we did.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: A softball interview with her. We want to know about you,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: what do you have? What type of cancer do you have?
• 33:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, all, you know, five or six questions, just to
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: make sure that we had her on camera. Bring it back,
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: stick it in the library for whenever this resolves, we'll
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: run it. The police raid on the you know, the
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: search warrants from the FEDS where they're filming it with
• 33:58
  Speaker 6: you know, two different crews, making sure that we get
• 34:01
  Speaker 6: every piece of sound that we possibly can all of it.
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: I would say if somebody's learning like how to do
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: this for a living, you're constantly preparing and gathering stuff
• 34:12
  Speaker 6: because when you go to sell it, and I did
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: this for years, when you go in to sell, you
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: have to have a package that's undeniable. The first thing
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: you get asked by Netflix or Hulu or HBO, what
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: do you have?
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Does it have to be finished by the time you're.
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: No, it doesn't need to be finished, but they need
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: to know that you have something that's really bespoke, that
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: you've got an interview with the victims, you know, the
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: victim or with the perpetrator's parents are turning on them.
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: You've got to have something concrete. You've got to have
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: a lot of archival, but the access is everything. And
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: then it always helps if you've got a big time
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: director or somebody involved that wants or an EP that's
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: got a name that wants to join on board. Fifty
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: cent I've done stuff with fifty people.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: People love to come.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, he's into he's into everything, like that's
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: he crosses over into our world of the Real Housewives
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: and Bravo and stuff like that too. So when you
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: are working on a project, it could be uh, maybe
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: both things. One you you are self funding it in
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: order to pitch it and hopefully have a network by it.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Or two perhaps a network is hiring you to go
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: find a story and they give you a certain amount
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: of time to put it together and then you present it.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Is that right of course?
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: The third right, well, you know it's no. And to
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: that point, like I, I have worked with some of
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: the most incredible client producers out there and and it's
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: always like, so, you know, you'll wonder why, Okay, we've
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: seen five documentaries on the same subject, right, and this
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: I was like, oh, if you know what, what do
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: you have different? What's you know, what could be unique
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: about it? And there's always that because you know, we
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: have relationships that go way back. You know, we'll be
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: talking to an agent, an FBI agent that maybe worked
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: a particular case, and then sometimes they'll reach out and say, hey,
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: do you know this story? And I was like, I
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: don't know that one. We'll let me tell you because
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: it's got these elements to it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Or they'll just they come to you and they're like, hey.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: Sometimes we're working on them with one story, they'll tell
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: us about another. But what I think makes for some
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: of the best crime producing is when you have these
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: long standing relationships and then you'll say, you know, it's
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: been ten years since that story. Is there anything that
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: hasn't been released yet that isn't out there? And because
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: you have that long standing relationship, they'll say, you know
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: what there is you should? You should foia and ask
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: for this or ask for that, because sometimes you don't
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: know that something exists to ask for and they're not
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: going to hand it over unless unless they have to.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: Or a family member will say a friend of mine
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: just had this happen. I was going through stuff. I
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: can't believe it I have. I found the old laptop
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: and everything is on it. You know, like so's there's
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: those situations when something will lend that then I think
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: it warrants you know, oh, Ken Ken Scott, take this
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: and do something new on a particular case, because sometimes
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: you know, you don't want to hear any more about
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: a particular case right, like enough for it?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: We just how do you know to cut and run
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: off of a case like that year, like this isn't
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: going anywhere.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: You'll find out buyers will tell you on that side
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: They'll tell you very quickly if you'll get a good
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: sense of it, which is what was shocking about Scamanda
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: right when people were passing on it, or like if
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: you listened to the podcast, or like you know, you
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: get various responses, but you know, I wanted to go
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: back for one second to all three of those scenarios
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: that you described happen. I've been approached by a network
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: that said, if you get the rights to this story,
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: we will green light a TV movie right now, got
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: the rights, took it back to them, We're off. We
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: were writing, hiring a writer for a script within six weeks.
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: Most of the time, what you're trying to do. I
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: worked at Lionsgate Alternative Television for a long time producing
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: their crime content, which is where Scamanda came out of.
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: You're trying to create the elements to take in and pitch.
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: The goal is to get somebody else to pay for
• 38:37
  Speaker 6: your project.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: You don't want to self fund if you can help it,
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: because it's costly and there's no guarantee you're ever going
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: to make your money back. So the goal is you
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: spend ten, fifteen, twenty thousand dollars. The company's happy to
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: put it out there for the return they're going to
• 38:53
  Speaker 6: get eventually when you sell it. I would take ten
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: things out a year. I would sell two. That was
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: a good success rate out of ten. Was that kept
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: me busy. That kept my employers very happy. The third
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: way that you said, self fund it, and you can
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: do it, and some people do it, but there's no guarantee.
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: It is the most lucrative though, because if you sell it,
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: you own it, and you retain the rights, you can
• 39:18
  Speaker 6: go sell it internationally.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: What happened with Scamanda because you took it from crime
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Watch all the way over to like how did you who?
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: The problem was that under.
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: We took it because it was Nancy was following it.
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: Nobody had the details that Nancy did. Warner Brothers owned
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: that footage that you know some.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Of that we were footage right crime Nancy, But Nancy
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: had all the materials. She had collected all of those materials.
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: So when Crime Watch went under, Warner Brothers had no
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: interest in Skamanda.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: They were producing Extra and TMZ at the time. They
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: had no interest in it.
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: So Nancy and I asked Nancy to come over to
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: Lion's with me, and let's produce it.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Let's finish the job. Let's finish what we started.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: So lions Gate was the of the thunder like the
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: produced Yeah, okay.
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: And Scamanda, and Scamanda still hadn't been prosecuted at that point,
• 40:12
  Speaker 6: I asked Nancy to come over, knowing that the case
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: was still yeah, it was still going nowhere. It was
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: you know, we didn't know if she was ever going
• 40:19
  Speaker 6: to be prosecuted. We knew she was under investigation, but
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: that was no guarantee that she was ever going.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: To be tried and convicted of it.
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: But we got Nancy to come over and sign a
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: deal with us, and like she said, there was no
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: guarantee that anybody wanted it because at the on the
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: face of it, Scamanda was one hundred and fifty thousand
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: dollars scam, not huge by any stretch.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for the wire fraud, like that was the right
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: that was.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a yeah, it wasn't a million dollar scam.
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: It wasn't Tinder swindler that was international and you know, all.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: These exotic locations and these lies.
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: But it was a great story, and like Nancy mentioned,
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: everybody wants IP. They're like, where's the magazine article? Is
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: there a podcast about it? I'm like, we have the
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: rights to this, and I just kind of had the
• 41:10
  Speaker 6: sense that that's the problem we were going to run into.
• 41:13
  Speaker 6: So we actually started the podcast division at Lionsgate Alternative
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: just forced Commanda oh and we produced the podcast which
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: became a hit, which turned into a documentary series and
• 41:26
  Speaker 6: was supposed to be a scripted series as well, but
• 41:28
  Speaker 6: that never came to fruition.
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: Remember Scott said, what do you think about we're going
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: to you know, if we do a podcast? I said,
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: I guess. I said, this is such a visual story
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: because you know, I got all the artict I've got
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: every picture of her with the head and the thing
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: and the videos, and I'm like, it's such a visual
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: TV thing. I said, I guess.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he goes, we don't care if five people listen
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: to it. We just want the IP so they can
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: understand the story. These executives don't seem to understand that
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: someone baked cancer for ten years and people bought it.
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: It's not just buying it hook line and syncro. She
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: destroyed so many lives, Like there were these layers of
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: what she did to the ex wife, what she did
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: to the you know, there was there was much more
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: to it, and I think that's what they couldn't wrap
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: their heads around.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: And so the podcast, obviously, I teamed up with Charlie Webster,
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: who was hired at Lionsgate Sound to oversee it, and
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: she wrote it and worked with us, and I had
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: all the interviews and had all the people and so,
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: you know, we put that together and you know, sixty
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: five million or plus more now downloads, and it was
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: and then it was like, well, now someone's gonna want this. Yeah,
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: it's because.
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: It's one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. But it's like
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: when to the listener that I know it wasn't to
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: the irs, that wasn't a huge sum of money, but
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: to the listener, that seems unbelievable.
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: So it's such a relatable target of like, it.
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: Was not really about the money.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: It was about the cancer, and it was about everyone
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: can relate to that. Everyone knows someone and who would
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: ever choose to have cancer? Right, Like it was just
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: so nauseating to me that she was doing this, and
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: at some point for me, it was really about what
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: Alita had gone through because they took her child. They
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: just destroyed her life and her child who had cancer.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: You had the other So she had two daughters, one
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: with Corry and the other were from a previous marriage.
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: So wonder But yes, when she came as the nanny,
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: and I think that's the other thing. I'm like, I
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: remember saying, Scout, do they understand she was the nanny
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: of the family who then married the husband.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: You know, like everybody loves a nanny to the husband's story.
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: But you have to get but you have to take
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: the temperature. And I wasn't officially pitching it out there
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: because you don't get I was trying to explain this
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: to Nancy at the time.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: I'm like, we can't repitch this.
• 43:59
  Speaker 6: If I go out and pitch it and it doesn't
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: get sold, you can't go back the next year and say, Hey, Netflix, it's.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Me again, or Hulu, it's me again. Oh really, do
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: you like to hear this pitch again?
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: There?
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: No, it's what it hears the change in the story.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: What if something else happens.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: If.
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: There's a monumental shift or if there's a regime change
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: at a network that is your only hope. You cannot
• 44:25
  Speaker 6: go back into a network and try and repitch an.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Old story because they'll stop taking your calls. Like, Wow,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: I want to hear from Scott again.
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: I think he's bringing back you know, another you know, leftover,
• 44:37
  Speaker 6: so you don't want that reputation?
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: No, right, of course, Okay. I want to ask what
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: are what are the traits of a scammer? Because you
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: obviously know very well about what makes a scammer a scammer?
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: And follow up on that.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Why the theme that they document everything that they're doing
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: as they're going along seems to be a bit of
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: a theme, and so why do they do that?
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: So can you tell us a little.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Bit about the how you see a scammer and what
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: the traits are?
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean they don't hopefully listeners out there are
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: watchers whoever's looking at this. You don't if I did
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: something like that, I'd be looking over my shoulder, right
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: if I know I don't have cancer, and I'm telling
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: everybody I am, and I'm so sick. I don't know
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: how I would function. I just it's just you know,
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: to be able to go on with life living that lie.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: I think for most people, you'll be terrified or you know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: I didn't return a library book back in nineteen, you know, eighty,
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: and you know, but they don't think that way. One
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: of one of the biggest traits is they will it's
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: a bold faced lie. They will, right to your face
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: continue that lie, and they will double down. They will
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: get caught, they will have depositions happening with authorities, and
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: they will create a new company and continue, you know,
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: like it doesn't affect them. It's We did a panel
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: recently with a behavior on analysts from the FBI, a
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: retired one and for scammers. We did it at crime
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: Con and she said, shout out exactly.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: I love the you guys are at crime Con, by
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: the way, that's super cool.
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and she said, she said, they're not much different
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: than a serial killer the way that they operate and
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: think and the you know how they are. They just
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: continue to push forward. That was alarming. I had never
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: really thought about it that way, but yeah, it's true,
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: Like they don't have that mechanism or filter or whatever
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: you want to call it to know when enough is enough.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Mostly it is a recurring theme in our show.
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: And by the way, it's uh it goes male female
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: Jen Shaw, who we talked about a little earlier that
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: the exact same thing, was getting in trouble, was watching
• 46:55
  Speaker 6: people fall around her. She closed her two businesses and
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: she started two new businesses under new names.
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: While on a TV show.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I was going to say that happened. It happened before
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: she was on the TV show.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: She had that in her background, She had it in
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: her back, get herself out there.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: And why why that, Scott, Why would she go on
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: a TV show having this happening in her world?
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Thirst thirst? She was making.
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, by I guarantee she was making more money in
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: her business than Real Housewives paid her initially, at least
• 47:33
  Speaker 6: I guarantee.
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: You think you're absolutely right.
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: Contracts aren't worth a ton when they start out. If
• 47:38
  Speaker 6: they become a big hit, of course, then they benefit.
• 47:42
  Speaker 6: You know, it goes up exponentially. But why because she needs.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: The attention, She loves the attention, and a lot of
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: these scammers.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: And they love the money work.
• 47:53
  Speaker 6: I mean, you know, yeah, But it's all about optics, right,
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: Nancy Coco Berth mint Optics, David bunovac Optics, and Shaw Optics.
• 48:02
  Speaker 6: So many of them they just need you to They
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: need to be admired, they need to be loved.
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: That's I think I asked you about one of these
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: guys that you just profiled, the Jose Antiqua.
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: Am I saying that right? The furniture Mad Cow.
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: So this was on a recent episode of Slippery and
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: it's about I'll just summarize real quick. If you haven't
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: heard or know this person, it's a great episode. And
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: he basically needed insurance money, so he married a woman
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: and faked his own death with mad cow disease. I'm
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: this is like broadest strokes of all time. But I
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: know you're saying we can't really, the scammers are not
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: going to change. But what I kept thinking about was
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: this wife, and she's the victim in this, but she
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: believed him, even going to prison knowing that this is wrong.
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: And it reminds me of right now when people are
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: getting like these texts and or social media messages from
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: strangers or who they think are celebrities and being conned
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: out of all their money. And I know that's a
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: whole thing that's happening via China, Russia or whatever. I'm
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: not talking about those scammers. I'm saying the victim. If
• 49:20
  Speaker 5: you know someone in this situation, how do you get
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: them out?
• 49:25
  Speaker 6: Like?
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: How do you have you you're on the front lines
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: of these scams.
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: Have you seen any kind.
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: Of like tricks or clues to help to get the
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: victas not to see the light?
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: See the light? Yeah, it is not easy. We have
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: a dear friend that was a seasoned producer that got
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: on the hook for one of these scams and called
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: me afterwards and was like it hit him like all
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: at once, and he said, I can't believe I'm making
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: this call to tell you, but I have to do
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: it because I know you're going to put me in
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: my place. But here's what happened. And I just went,
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: are you fucking kidding me? Like He's like, you get
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: you can get caught up in what they're saying, and
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: there's an urgency and there's a well we're gonna do
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: this right now, and you know it may not be
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: a giant scam, but it's enough that it catches you
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: off guard, and you've got others if the timing hits,
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: or you have something going on in your life and
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: think you know, you're just like wait what Okay, yeah,
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: well what do you need from me? Let me just
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: handle this now it can happen, you know. And you know,
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: for the Lantiqua case when we originally covered it, and
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: the reason I wanted to look at it again for
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: the slippery was because he's just got out. He just
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: got yeah, he wasted. I was just like, Okay, I
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: bet I get it. Like, you know, in the grand
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: scheme of things, it wasn't you know, horrific. But and
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: I remembered, I said to Scott, oh, remember when we
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: interviewed Daphne and we had interviewed she was wearing the
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: ankle monitor when we interviewed her back in the you know,
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: when it happened, and she was as sweet as could be.
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: She was like, well, I mean this is what I thought.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: And her her kids were there too at the time,
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: they were grown adults, and they were like, yeah, no,
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: like she is just coming out of it. Like she
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: was so protective of everything she thought she what she
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: did was right. And then on our debrief, we had
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: the investigator that actually for the insurance companies figured it
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: out and went down to had people go down to
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Venezuela and like, do the leg work, and we asked
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: him what he thought about Daphne and stuff, and he
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: was there. He took up devs like there's no way
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: she didn't know like he was. He came at it
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: from a different angle. He was like, there's just like
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: she was insurance, she was doing everything. She was definitely
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: a victim, but a bit.
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: She was a victim because Jose picked her from a
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: dating website because he needed a pond to be his
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: wife that he knew he could manipulate, and going along
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: with this plan because it doesn't work. It doesn't work
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: to fake your own death unless you have a cocon
• 51:59
  Speaker 6: spiritor who can go collect the money and make your
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: life comfortable again.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: So he had to go find the perfect Patsy.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: He really did find the perfect Patsy.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it happens so often, it does.
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: These are smart people's victims. I think that is Like
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: the main thing I have to tell myself is like,
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: don't think you're so smart.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Like, well, listen, I'm extremely smart. So like, for example,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: my intelligence.
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: Brad Pitt's texting you right now. I know, I know.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: I got to take a self for him.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the other day the doorbell rings at like
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: nine forty five at night, I'm in bed, congratulations to
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: me for getting the better, and I'm like, that's so weird.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: So I hear my husband, Brett, talking to somebody and
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: I hear like a woman crying, and I'm like, what
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: the heck is going on? So I jump out of bed.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: I go to the door. It's this woman with a
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: pit bowl and she's like, there's a.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: Coyote out there.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: I was walking my dog and Brett did not like
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: let her in. He didn't he didn't even have the
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: screen door open. Right me, I'm like, oh my god,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: come in, are you okay? Like can I drive you?
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Like I'm from Michigan. I want to help you. Like,
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't even think twice that that could have It
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: was not a scam. Okay, there was a coyote. I
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: saw it and everything was fine. But like I immediately
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: didn't even think that that could have been a scam.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Could have been I was willing to let this woman
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: in my house with her dog. I was like, get
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: in my car, let me come help you, you know,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: And so I just thought later when I said to Brett,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, that like could have been a scam,
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, that's why I had the door shut.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: But then you came up and then you did what
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: you did.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: I was like, I am so sorry.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: So again, super intelligent me, you know, like I could
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: have been bamboozled.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: Thankfully I wasn't.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: But like, that's those the situations you can hear about
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: all the time. Someone comes to your door, like, yeah, well.
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: We here at a time guard. There's no you know,
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: there's no way i'd ever you know that somebody could
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: do that to me. Right We're working on a case
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: right now that we're gonna be doing, and it's another
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: cancer scammer. And I was talking with someone in a
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: pre interview that we're going to be interviewing, and there
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: were just talking and they're like, well, I have to
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: tell you. I was literally watching this Commander docuseries with
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: said cancer faker, and we were watching it and I
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: was like, can you believe someone would look what you're
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: going through and they would fake cancer? How disgusting are
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: these people? And this woman telling me I was going
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: on and on about it, and here I am on
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: the phone with you. Now I would have never like
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: my own person here was so you know, I think
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: there's situations where you just can't fathom some would would
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: do something like that, so your brain doesn't go there.
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: And I and that's one of the things I think
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: that's come out of Scamanda. I laugh. I go, well,
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: some is like people calling up people that maybe have
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: cancer that they shouldn't be but in the but at
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: least to know that these things are possible, because in
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: this day and age, it's it's a lot more common
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: than you think. It's a lot easier now with AI
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: all these things.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so AI has changed the game.
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: Wow? Really?
• 55:23
  Speaker 6: And that cancer scammer story is coming out this fall.
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: I know everybody's looking for Nancy's follow up to Scamanda,
• 55:29
  Speaker 6: and dare I say, this is bigger and more involved
• 55:33
  Speaker 6: than Scamanda was on the fall?
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, so what's happening?
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: What? What? What?
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: Now?
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: What's happening the slipper. We're gonna We're gonna put it.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: We've talked about this because I'm like, well, I don't
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: want to just put it out and give it to
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: somewhere else, you know, to do it. Well, you know,
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: we'll just do it ourselves. So we're doing it just
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: through the slippery It'll be like a special whatever. Sixth
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: part Slippery six parts. Yeah, I think we're yeah, well
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: this constructing it right now. Yeah, this one takes some
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: turns and some things that are like wow, you know,
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: goes back to what we were saying. They double down,
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: they don't stop, and they do other criminal things. I think,
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: like even Scamanda bankruptcy fraud, there was a bunch a
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: host of other things she wasn't charged with. So it's
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: not just like oh she they cancer huh, you know,
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: she's got mental issues. They use it as a tool
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: and they wield it as a tool to do a
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: lot more and in this situation, yeah.
• 56:34
  Speaker 6: Let's just say it's higher stakes, longer and more people involved,
• 56:40
  Speaker 6: and more people willing to turn, and people close to
• 56:43
  Speaker 6: her willing to turn.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Is it a cancer scam?
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: It's a cancer scam?
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Wow, So okay, you your podcast The Slippery is It's
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: so interesting because now with everything that you've done and
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: everything that you're working on, probably even on the side
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: of the Slippery, you also also are now going to
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: be telling these stories that no one's heard, potentially like
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: this one, and then you have the ip to that
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: correct so that you could potentially sell this to produce
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: it or be a part of it, you know, whether
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: you do it at Lionsgate or whatever. Is that kind
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: of like sort of the side hustle if you will,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Is that your side, scam be straight with me.
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the well. Yeah, even with Scamanda like, I
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: own part of it and I laugh about it because
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: you know, in the world of entertainment there's always creative accounting.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: So I'm always told like, oh, it hasn't made money.
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, good enough of that. Let's move on.
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: Let's do it ourselves.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's so smart, especially with with everything
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: what you have as a foundation and what you know
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: and how you know to do it. You're the perfect
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: duo to do it. So you've got that coming up
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: in the fall, which I'm very excited about. You'll have
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: to come back and we'll talk about that.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have you guys back, Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: Then the Genshaw that you're working.
• 58:05
  Speaker 6: Jenshaw's one of our upcoming episodes. So every week we
• 58:09
  Speaker 6: should explain our format. Every week we put out two episodes.
• 58:12
  Speaker 6: The first episode, the Slippery is just Nancy and I
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: kind of giving you the cliff notes. We call it
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: the cliff notes of a story, but we're blabbers, So
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: it goes on about an hour.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: The second episode is called the debrief.
• 58:25
  Speaker 6: And that's where we interview somebody that was embedded in
• 58:30
  Speaker 6: the story. It's usually an investigator, an attorney, a cop,
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: or maybe even the victim. So that person kind of
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: you know, we were talking about this a little bit
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: earlier when trying to understand what the characteristics are of
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: these people that perpetrate these scams. So even our very
• 58:48
  Speaker 6: first episode was a grifter couple that befriended a doctor
• 58:52
  Speaker 6: who had mental illness and tried to steal his fortune.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: He died within eleven months of meeting them.
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: They'd already grifted a million million dollars out of him,
• 59:01
  Speaker 6: and they tried to make a claim on his estate
• 59:04
  Speaker 6: for another twenty million afterwards.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: And only to be stopped by the receiver who.
• 59:10
  Speaker 6: Was handling the estate for the courts. And he happened
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: to investigatory. Yeah, he stumbled upon it. Yeah, so he
• 59:20
  Speaker 6: helped us understand. He deposed them, each of them for
• 59:24
  Speaker 6: hours wow, for the case, and so he could really
• 59:28
  Speaker 6: explain like what their motivations were, how they thought they
• 59:30
  Speaker 6: were getting away with it why they pursued it. So
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: every debrief we get a different layer. We've had former
• 59:39
  Speaker 6: FBI agents on this next week, we have tomorrow we
• 59:43
  Speaker 6: have a CIA agent on because we've exposed a scammer
• 59:47
  Speaker 6: who's been presenting himself as a CIA officer for probably
• 59:51
  Speaker 6: about six years now and has gotten to the highest
• 59:55
  Speaker 6: echelons of the US government and shakes with the President,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 6: food counsels in Bali.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: You name the world. Is that possible, it's it's it's alarming.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: It's a lot that.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: That was the same in Jose in the in the
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 5: Furniture King story.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: That was also he was saying. He was like, he.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Said that too.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well you know you find a pattern, right, So
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: a lot of young women will have an issue and
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: present as a trafficking sexual trafficking survivors, familiar trafficking survivors
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: when they're not, or cancer fakers, but for some reason,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: men present as Green Beret c I A Special Forces. Yeah,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: you know all these like secret ops. You know that
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: they had these and interesting, you know, so it's it's
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: absolutely interesting because it's it's you know what, and somehing
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: is sense.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: It does because I'm just going to give my daughter
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: as an example, she's nine years old, but she and
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: her friends they just want to be orphans or sick.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, or like a DEA's I don't want to play,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: or so she was fascinated.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: With Oh my god, like and I'm constantly having to
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: play Miss Hannigan, you know, like I'm constantly like yeah, kids,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: they're constantly like miss hand again. So it's orphans. It's
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: like I'm sick and they're playing. I can hear them
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: playing on their FaceTime or kids Messenger where they're like okay,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: so and they're animals are like okay, pretend that I'm
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: really wounded and I can't walk and then this cat
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: stole my ear and.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: My pause, you know.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're they're just beat up and and so
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: that to me is such an interesting psychology into the
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: mind of say, of a gender of the gender you know,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: and then you've got on the other side.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't have a son, so I don't
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: know what it would be like.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: But that is so interesting that they're like trying to
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: fulfill their their fantasies and role playing.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: As an adult, secret ops make so much sense because
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: you're keeping secret. It's for them because you think that
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 5: there's like, right, the government's involved, and you're going to
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: be in trouble and they're going to be in trouble.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 5: And I can see that just spiraling into like, no,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 5: don't you understand the government's going to kill our whole family?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: If I ever talk like I can see secret.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: How would you question them?
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 6: This guy, by the way went I don't want to
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 6: spoil the episode, but he ended up getting his hands
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 6: on fifty million dollars from an Oi Dutch oil company
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 6: all through the CIA is.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: It's an amazing story.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hanging out.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: It comes it's out this week.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 6: It just the first episode came out a couple of
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 6: days ago. And by the way, he owns a twenty
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 6: four and a half million dollar estate in Pacific Palisades.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: That's where he does not even like fire, prison or anything.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 6: No, no, wow, under suspicion, not convicted.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: So you, oh my god, so you do a story
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: on this. He's out there.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: What if he likes out? So what's what happens next.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you what happens next.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: He's probably taking advantage of all the fire money from
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 5: the Yeah.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably, Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 6: I think he aims even higher than that he's we
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 6: know he has pictures with JD Vance in the last year.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's not affiliated with one.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 6: Party or the other. It's whoever's in power that can
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 6: get him ahead. So there have been And by the way,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 6: we don't claim even though we're investigative producers we are
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 6: not journalists. We don't we don't purport ourselves to be journalists.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 6: We cite them at the beginning of our episode. We
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 6: we read articles, we make calls, we do we follow up.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 6: But we wouldn't be doing this podcast without the great
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 6: work of you know, some journalists out there that have
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 6: dug into that spy fake spy for gosh four years.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: The Wall Street.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 6: Journal has done a little bit about him, just very little.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 6: If if you're not so close attention, yeah, you wouldn't
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 6: ever see it.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: I can't wait to listen to that.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: And that's part of the fun of what we do
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: is spotting those stories that you go, oh, there's going
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: to be a lot like you know, and you kind
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: of get it, get ahead of it. I mean, that's
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: the story that Montana doctor that I still don't understand
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: how that's I'm listening to that right now.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: It's insane. It is insane.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 6: And by the way, the other one I wanted to
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 6: mention with the CIA guy that came to us in
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 6: the oddest way. I get a call from my boss
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 6: at work and he's like, we need to talk to
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 6: Stephen McPherson. And I said, Stephen McPherson. That rings the belly.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 6: He goes, yeah, I used to run ABC. I said, oh,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 6: that's Stephen McPherson. Okay, And we got on the phone
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 6: with them and he's like, yeah, this guy squatted in
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 6: my house. Says he's a fake. He says he's a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 6: former CIA agent. He sold all my furniture while he
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 6: was renting it during COVID and he broke into my
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 6: wine cellar.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, do you want.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 6: To talk about this? He goes, I'll talk about it.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 6: He goes, you can put me on camera whatever. That's
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 6: how I found out about the CIA.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: Unbelievable fake CIA spy.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Now, if people have if some of our darlings have
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: a pitch or you know, something that they're like, oh
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: I got something for you, where.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: Do they go?
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: How do they get in touch with you? Do you
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: guys have like a slippery dot com. What what's what's
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: your contact?
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: And that's it the slips the Slippery dot com. That's
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: the website and.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: This Slippery dot com.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: I would do our Gmail too because that is a
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: direct route to us.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: It's the Slippery Pod at gmail dot com.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: The Slipperypod at gmail dot com. If you guys, as darlings,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: have any scammers in your lives, any hot tips on
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: some some people who are just running some scandals. So
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: we have a lot to look forward to on your
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: podcast coming up. You already have like twenty how many episodes,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: twenty six, twenty two?
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Were we twenty two or twenty years?
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Already have a huge, you know, unbelievable amount of shows
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: that you've done that are all equally as interesting. And
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: now we have some some pretty hard hitting ones coming up,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: which I'm very excited about. You're going to come back
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: in the fall well making plans right, yes, and everyone's
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: going to listen to this podcast, share with everybody. And
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: so again you can find the Slippery anywhere. Is it
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: anywhere you listen to podcasts or is it just on
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: okay yea socials?
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we always get these wrong. We're the worst
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: business feed Like this is not our.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 6: I was in charge of setting up the social media handles,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 6: and let's just.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Say I'm not great at digital.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 6: We are at the Slippery Pod on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 6: At YouTube you can watch us do our show. It's
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 6: not as polished as ACCI for sure, but that's at
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 6: the Slippery over on YouTube.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: Great.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for coming on here. I
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: feel so honored to meet you.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: Guys.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: You're seeing really important people doing really all your stuff
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: very and we're just goofing around over here on drama Darling.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: So thank you for bringing some some levity, some way,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: some interest to our show.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: Oh no, I've got so much. I like this type
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: of stuff because it's it's hit or missed with people
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: Like sometimes you're like, wait, what, well, we always know
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: they're a bad guy. I'm like, it's not about them
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: being bad, it's everything you can. You need the layers,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: the layers, the assets. What are they doing?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and we appreciate you listening, and we need all
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 6: the listeners we can get to grow this little operation
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 6: of ours.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 5: Yes, well, definitely my little text threat, the munch Bunch.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 5: We just focused on lunch hous and fictitious Disorder stories
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: were listening.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: I thought it was mister.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: That was we were debating, is mister Much for Munchausen
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: or detective.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly right, it's gotta be gotta be is what's
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: mister m No, it's it's it's it's neither. He has
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: an underbite with two teeth that come up. And when
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: we adopted him, they you know, when you go to
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: some rescues, they're like, you know, that's pillow, that's blanket.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: You know, they have all these names because there's so
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: many dogs. And he was Munchkin Dream and our kids
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: and my husband we were like, Munchkin Dream, No, that's
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: not doesn't so mister mister Much.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: It became when oh wow, okay, do you know that
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: there's a crossover with law and order though, right?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: I Detective Much? Yeah, it be yes, that's him.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: That's what I thought too.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: I thought he was named.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: After h No, it's got he's got teeth.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Emily, guess what we did. We cracked a crime here.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: We crafted a practice open wide open. Well, thank you
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: guys so much, and we will see you soon in
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: the fall to talk about the upcoming hopefully six parter
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: that you have come in your way. Thank you Scott,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you Nancy.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: From The Slippery Drama by
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: MHM