Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #149: Exploring Intentional Community Options with Joel Salatin: Can you “Submit” to a Tribe?

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Episode #149: Exploring Intentional Community Options with Joel Salatin: Can you “Submit” to a Tribe? · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: We Americans have a real problem with the level of shared interest necessary to build community.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's so hard for us.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: You go to a village in in the old country, you know, whether it's Europe or goodness, um, Africa, you you go to these old villages.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was recently uh I did a farm conference with a farmer from uh UK.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Cena, this guy, he his family, his family has been on that farm for 600 years.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, welcome to the Beyond Labels Podcast.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough with our favorite farmer, Joel Salatin.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Today, Joel's gonna do most of the talking.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! We have a question that was sent in from a listener.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it's from our editor, Nolan.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And this is his question.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: He says there are many young people interested in buying land with their immediate family or friends and creating a farm/slash intentional community to save money on land and also to live close to each other.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing this talked about amongst friends and my immediate family.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So my question is: is it a good idea to go in together on property to build a small community and farm?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it better to just purchase land separately and live close by?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: What are the pros and cons of both?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it is.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, is that my Q to jump in?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I did say you're doing the talking.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: So okay.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let me come at this.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, yes, that this is this is definitely being done.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, some of you may know about um agro agritopia, I think it is in Arizona.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a whole book.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's the name of that book?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Agrahoods.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've got it up here.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't read it yet, but uh the title is Agrahood.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, oh uh welcome, welcome to the agrihood is the name.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: The author is Simone.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there there is, and I'm familiar with numerous of these kinds of um things.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: John Bush of the Exit and Build Fame in Austin, Texas, is is um you know shepherding some of these intentional community kind of things.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I've I've been I'm very aware and friendly with numerous of these permutations of of the theme.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so let me let me just let me just say a couple of things uh very practically.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: One is all partnerships start with what do you do if it ends?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so you work you work back.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So and and I'm talking about business, but but this is um, you know, this is is a little bit it's like a marriage, but there isn't anything that's exactly like a marriage where you just pledge unconditionally for life, okay?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we know what a track record they have, you know, and this is the you know that there is no uh more whatever um promise vow-oriented relationship than a marriage, but see you know what, half of them end in divorce, right?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So so if you've got if you've got that level of of um breakup for something as what seemingly strong as a as a marriage, well, multiply that by about three or four times and appreciate that in business partnerships, intentional community uh arrangements, dah dah dah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm just I'm being the old, you know, the old wise counselor here, uh trying to help everybody to understand that when you enter into a partnership like this, you start with what happens if it doesn't work.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you go in without answering that question and it does and and and it doesn't work, and you haven't addressed it, you're in for the messiness of a divorce, uh of a marriage divorce.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know how messy those can be.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is what I get, you get, you know, you divvy up.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's a mess.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So so the clarity, the clarity of what happens if it doesn't work out is actually where you where you start, and you work back from there to create something that you want.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so the the the of course the goal here is how do we not have a breakup, you know, at the end.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we Americans, we Americans are really uh we're we're we're brain damaged uh in this respect because we American DNA is all about individual liberty.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'll you know, Frank Sinatra, I did it my way, right?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we we uh we're all about walking to the beat of a different drummer.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Robert Frost, America's poet, uh I took the road less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: We we we encourage innovation, individuality, uh, individual expression.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of a lot of Americans, you know, unless you've traveled broadly like I have, you actually don't realize that this is kind of unusual in the world.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Most cultures don't incentivize, encourage emotionally or economically different.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Tribalism, tribalism is all about shared value, insular, insular belief systems, um and and tribalism certainly predates the nation state, you know, by by a long ways, okay.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the modern the modern nation state as we know it is um is a relatively you know it it we we we've made it a more sophisticated institution.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but historically, historically, groups of people, enclaves, tribes, I mean you could call them whatever you want to, um, they were extremely insular about their beliefs, their values, and what was acceptable or not.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the Renaissance, the Renaissance was a time of innovation.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, when Galileo innovated the idea that the the world the the sun revolved around the I mean that the earth, yeah, that the earth revolves around the sun, um, you know, the the world didn't take kindly to that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, his his his culture didn't take kindly to that.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so so we see that kind of ostracism of different.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: What what I'm what I'm getting at is we Americans have a real problem with the level of shared interest necessary to build community.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's so hard for us.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: We go to, you know, you go to a you go to a village in in the old country, you know, whether it's Europe or goodness, um, Africa, so you you go to these old villages.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was um I was recently on a I did a farm conference with a farmer from uh UK, uh United King, uh, Great Britain.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Cena, this guy, he his family, his family has been on that farm for six hundred years.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Six hundred years.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and so so in his community, and he spoke about his insular community, and here he came in, and he was the first one in the whole region to ever use electric fence and start moving his moving his sheep around.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: He had sheep, not cows.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's got some cows, he's got cows and sheep, and a few goats, I think, too.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, the idea of actually moving these animals and not being confined to the ancient stone fences, stone walls that they had, you know, that ancestors had built from way long back.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he starts subdividing this with electric fence.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about, you know, new technology and old, you know, uh to break up that land.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um and and it was it was incredibly powerful.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want so here here's what happens.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you get a bunch of mavericks, a bunch of loose cannons who want to be different and start this intentional community, and and we're gonna get together.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna, man, you know, these are people already predisposed to I'm gonna do it my way.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're suddenly gonna come together and they're gonna do it by consensus, and we're all gonna just sing kumbaya, and we're all gonna, you know, uh, we're gonna all love each other.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, so you probably in our culture, the group that most closely resembles the kind of the kind of community support that you know many people want is the Amish.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: But what may and and I I've done a lot with the Amish.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've spent many nights in their homes.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've done over the years close, we have many, many close friends with the Amish.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so uh I I I'm not an expert, but I'm I'm pretty well up on the Amish.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you why the Amish experience works.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and remember, half of their young people don't stay, don't don't become Amish.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: They they leave they leave the Amish community.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Half of their so they have a quote unquote failure rate, if you will, of you know, half of their half of their offspring, uh for whatever reason, saying, nope, I'm gonna do it my way.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what what makes the Amish communities actually function are the bishops.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: The bishops define what kind of clothes, what kind of hair, uh, you know, head covering the ladies, you know, and you see all these different there, they're called ordnungs, that's the German word for the order, the the the the per the the particular order that they're under.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the ordnung, and the bishop determines that the ordnung.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so don't don't even think that those Amish communities exist because everybody's sitting around singing kumbaya, they exist, and here here is probably the most important thing I'm gonna say in this entire thing.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: They exist because everybody agrees to submit, to submit to the leadership of that elder, that bishop.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And boy, if there is one thing we Americans don't like to hear, it's submit.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: We don't like to to be told in our marriages you submit to each other.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: We don't, you know, man, we we fight that, you know.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to sub, you know, I want to I want to do it my way.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and um, but but but let me tell you, in that community, they are all about submission, submission.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: It it even goes to their pacifism.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not gonna get in a big debate about you know, pacifism or not here, but I want you to just appreciate that that even you know when when when people have come in like like there was a you know, there have been several gunmen that have come in and shot Amish children in schools and and and and killed families and things like that, um they as a community, they forgive and they and they just say, well, you know, it was God's will.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'll I'll confess I'm not there.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay um I I think things, well, we're getting a theological discussion here in a minute.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I I don't I don't I think God allows things to happen, but he doesn't necessarily make everything happen.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there's a big difference between God saying I can allow this rather than him being the instigator.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think when somebody comes in and shoots an Amish family, God made that happen.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: He allowed it to happen, but he didn't make it happen.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: All right, well, that that's enough of our theology for the day.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: But my my my point my point here is that this submission, this submission thing is absolutely it is it is pushed into the to the mentality, to the belief system of the Amish from from day one.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Submit, submit, submit.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And man, that really rankles an American.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: But that that is that is what makes these communities, that's what makes the Amish community work.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was gonna say, this is really hitting home for me because as you know, um my family, we looked for a while of you know, where we were gonna live and what type of community are we gonna live in, because we moved to specifically fine community.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we researched a lot of different intentional communities and right off the bat, and there's lots of different forms too, right?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now there's whole websites created where you can find and connect with intentional communities.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So as Donnie and I were at the computer and we're looking at the different communities, we were quickly eliminating some of them because we were unwilling to submit.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, like some of the communities, like you had to share a kitchen, like there's one big kitchen, and you'd go in there and share it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And like some of them you had to like cook for everybody else on some of the days.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I no, like we don't need any grains.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not like, you know, I'm not sharing it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then some of them you had to share a bathroom.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And Donnie was like, I draw a line.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I like I need my own bathroom.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So then we found um a different type of intentional community that we thought might work.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this was in Tennessee, and the setting was beautiful, Joel.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was like on top of this mountain, and what happened was there was one elder like the bishop, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: He had he found the land, he had bought it a long time ago with the intention of setting up an intentional community, like over a decade ago or something.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was beautiful, and there were forests all around, there were no cell towers or high tension power lines, there was a waterfall on the property, like everything you'd want for like your kids, right?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So here's the thing everybody had their own house, and I and we was like, okay, that's a that's a basic requirement for us.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: We need our own house because some of the shared communities, you share your house.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we would have our own house, but you didn't own the land.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you bought the house, but that one quote unquote bishop owned all the land still, and so they had these covenants of what you could and couldn't do on the land that was around your house, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And things you had to do for the neighbors and with the neighbors, but we we're it's so ingrained in us property rights, right?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: From the founding of the of our nation that Donnie and I both instantly, it wasn't even a conversation.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: We both were like, no, we need to own our own land.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot have somebody telling us what we can and cannot do on our own land.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's exactly what you're saying.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: We are we are so strong in our own fierce independence and our way that we would not submit.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually did not fit into any intentional community that we came across.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've got you one on steroids.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's one here in Virginia.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I won't mention the name of it, it but it but it started way, way back in the 70s.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I I went there to do a they asked me to come and do a presentation one time.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh went this is decades ago, and I went to do the presentations, and they they had a common kitchen, common eating area.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: But here what here was the kicker for me.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: On the wall was this huge credenza of underwear, men's large, medium, small, women's bras, large, medium, small, women's underwear, large, medium, small.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was you you went and you you it was a common, you shared your underwear.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: You shared are you are you get you got it?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, in other words, it's a common laundry, common laundry, common clothing, and you just went and you all right.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a large guy.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I put I pull my underwear out of the you know cubby, the the underwear cubby here for the guys, and you're I mean that that was that was pretty that was pretty far.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that community, that community is still ongoing.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's been there 40 years, and um, and it it's functional.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now they've had some pretty you know big whatever shakeups over the years, but the basic core is still functioning, and um, and yeah, it that was that that was really over the top for me.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is such a foreign concept to me that as you were describing, small, medium, large, I'm thinking in my head, where is he going?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a store?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to go into their store to buy your underwear.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I would never have thought you could share your underwear.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You just share it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, that's right.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and you I guess that teaches you not to value materialism.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's true.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and and and what what you what you hope then is whoever's in charge of the laundry that week is doing a good job.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Put enough soap in that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like make sure you got enough soap in there.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the these these span all all sorts of things.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think the critical the critical thing to to realize is you you can partner up because I get the whole shared.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's there's one one of the best ones I know about is is near Cincinnati.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lady that inherited about a 120-acre farm from her from her dad when he died.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and she she didn't want to sell it, she wanted to keep it, but she she she wasn't a farmer.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: She was actually a real estate agent, uh, which explains what she ended up doing.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she wanted it, she wanted to try to hold on to it as a farm.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: So what she did, she she cut off, I think, 35 lots uh around an edge and sold those lots with a covenant that those people paid into a kitty to hire a farmer for the hundred acres who would then feed those 35 families.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And those 35 families, and so then she was able to she was able to drill one well, the septic system, they shared a septic, so there was one sewer system and of course a massive drain field, but it it it's where the farmers grew their hay.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So the farmers were growing hay from the septic field, so it was a shared sewer, shared water, um, shared um shared heat.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they had an outdoor wood furnace, you know, so so the houses uh shared heat and and uh and so one person was hired, you know, in the winter to keep the you know the wood, to cut the wood and keep the wood going.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: All right, but but the point is sharing, you know, two can two can live cheaper than one.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and so when you share like this, you do cut expenses substantially.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: But but you have to be able, if things go south, you have to be able to exit.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and that that that's the key.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so in in this situation, the families own their house and lot autonomously, but they have covenants that link them to the the the greater farm of it.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and and and and they don't have to go ask permission.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the farm has walking trails.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was part of what their their like annual subscription payment to the farm, you know.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's what that helps to pay for.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're just a farmer like we are, uh and you're a for profit farm.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know making a bunch of hiking trails that's not on my to-do list you know i got uh you know right but but but if i had 35 families dumping in you know fifty thousand dollars a year just to to to make a a nice place for the for children and families to be able to go well i could i could make a nice little pavilion for picnics and i could make some hiking trails and you see so so it's it it is it is a win-win situation um so i'm certainly not opposed to that to to sharing i'm i think there's a lot of value there but in our american culture to actually make it thrive and survive there has to be um there has to be autonomy in living space and in in the immediate what's called the curtilage the curtilage which is the you know whatever out from the out from the house aways you know yard garden whatever uh that that that you that you have autonomy over with a way with a way to sell it if things go south and you want to change i mean goodness what if you what if you get old you're an empty nester and you don't want that place anymore you want to downsize okay i mean you've got to be able you've got to be able to exit and so you know i i know many families that have gone in together multi-generation gone together well that has a lot better chance of working than complete strangers uh because you know you're you're a little more you you kind of know what you're getting you know well you know the the sister-in-law talks too much the brother you know whatever and you know you notice you picked a girl as the example of talking too much i i well are you directing that toward me no no uh i mean we could we can say you know the brother in law uh never says anything and has too high expectations and never you know never explains it um that those are stereotypical men women issues i know but um but but but at least at least you know what you're getting you know you yes uh and and and and generally share you share political beliefs religious beliefs value systems uh and and there's there's a there's a lot to that um but almost no well i'll just say no institute no human institution actually works without hierarchy all human institutions only work on hierarchy i mean even the church has a hierarchy goodness the native americans had chiefs i mean yes they had talking sticks and they did a lot by consent but they had a hierarchy you know there was a chief and and so all human institutions require a hierarchy and i think i think some of some of that a is simply because we do need to learn to submit i would say as an object lesson of submitting to god for me but but you know you you but but submission is a is a big deal uh in in the human condition we need to you know submit to our marriage partners we need to you know uh and so so the hierarchy uh is part of that entire chain of command uh that that that can move you know move agendas forward and and protect things and so in a family situation usually you know it's all the ones that I know of it's a you know it's a it's a mom and dad in their 60s they've got a couple kids and their families the kids are in their 30s they've got grandkids let's go in this thing together well who's in charge well you know the matriarch and patriarch while they might not sign a paper that say dad and mom are in charge trust me dad and mom are in charge okay you know they they generally are the ones with the equity they make the deal happen you know they they pick the site that sort and and and that and that's grandma and grandpa you know and they're they're the built-in babysitters so let's not irritate them uh and so so you know you you have a you have a lot of um uh protective arenas in that so I'm a to so to cut to the chase with uh Nolan's question I'm a big believer in sharing you need to go in with your eyes wide open and uh and appreciate the the tension between sharing and self-expression those are two opposite ends of a of a teeter totter and so I'm a big believer in in personally owning whatever you're gonna own with the ability to exit with with a lot of autonomy no shared underwear that that that's that's like my benchmark of you know I'm not going there okay uh uh but so so you can you know you can you can share but you have to you have to allow for that you know that self-expression uh on the other side and generally that means buying your own place and then being friendly to the neighbors and develop developing your own community in your neighborhood with friends that you cultivate over time obviously you won't win everyone that's close but uh but you'll you know you you'll find you'll find people of like minded and all this and you know you can go back home and one of you can eat you know uh fish and one of you can eat beef and one of you can be something else and and you know and and you're not you're not in each other's face all the time.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um and I I think I mean even on our on on our farm you know we have we have a lot of people think uh we've we've created a commune here you know we've got whatever seven residences and uh 20 some of us live here on on the farm that's a very unusual situation and we're not even related you know well how does that work well that works because I'm in charge you know yeah I I'm in charge and um and and and now I I I think I'm a I think I'm a benevolent dictator I'm I'm not I'm not a dictator anybody that knows us know I'm far from a dictator but uh but but our our houses are not connected we we've we have purposely tucked them uh so when you visit the farm you don't even see them why because they're over this hill over that why because everybody needs a place to scream all a place to scream and and um man do we we love we love our apprentices we love our stewards we love our staff man we love them to death but everybody needs a retreat place that you can go and get by your and get away and everybody needs a place to blow off steam and scream without everybody else hearing it you know though those those are just human life practical things that that you need to understand and so that's kind of my that's kind of my take on the on the intentional community.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that and you know so as we wrap up I'll just share that as Donnie and I were pursuing how do we want to live our ideal that we came what we thought was our ideal that we came up with is we wanted to go together uh with a couple friends and start a neighborhood so we actually had a friend who was going to buy a large piece of land and uh you know one that was zoned that you could cut it up into little plots and create a neighborhood and so we actually went out and we were looking for that type of land like untouched land you know all my requirements met and we had two families who are interested and so at the time so basically what we were going to do was everybody gets their own piece of land and you you own that land you own the house you have your own well you know whatever you need and and then we were going to find more like minded people to fill the rest of the plots you know and it never did materialize but that was our ideal and even with that that seemed relatively simple we learned of the complexity right because you do want to have some kind of like you would think of them like as a HOAs right some kind of guidelines even though gosh I'm so like I'm so I've lived in HOA communities I hate the the guidelines I'm like don't tell me what to do right but once we thought about creating our own neighborhood we did say well you know what I don't want my neighbor to be able to spray pesticides on their garden a lawn anywhere that I don't want them to be able to put up a cell a cell tower like you know it on you know anywhere near this area right um I don't want them to plant GMO seeds like we did start coming up with things that were were um non-starters for us right they could if they didn't agree they couldn't be in the community so it does actually really quickly get complicated and it ended up being there there did need to be you know some benevolent dictator like at the top managing all this and like I said that fell apart for many reasons but now what we what we finally ended up with is what you were talking about where we have land that we love right enough space there that we can grow and be self-sufficient you know to whatever extent we want to be and we chose it also um meeting the neighbors first right so we we fell in love with the land and everything and it met all my requirements and then I said well before we put in an offer we need to go meet the neighbors so we did the whole family went we drove up and we met all the neighbors that would be around there you know immediately around and that actually was the final selling point for us because we loved the neighbors like were we exactly the same and agreed on every point no but we agreed on the principal points what mattered the most is what we agreed on.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I could tell after spending time with them and Donnie could tell too they had good character they were like those stand up kind of people they'd be there for you like you know and so that actually was a reason why we ended up buying that land and now now we realize this was the way it was meant for us because we are so Donnie and I are so much in the camp of we will not submit like you can hold me down and waterboard me.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not spitting you know so this actually worked out well for us.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now we own it we can do what we want to do it and we have enough buffer around us that if that neighbor over there sprays that's okay because that's far away from my creek and my garden and my house and we intentionally built the property up that way.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: But we also know we have great neighbors that will be there and we'll be there for them.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yep yep that's that's that's well said that's really good.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I I knew one community that split right in half when um when several of them had the idea of of going vegan and they had several of them had backyard chickens and so suddenly all the backyard chickens people all the backyard chicken people were suddenly you know uh whatever you know uh demonized and and the whole community split right in half you know half went this way half went that way so yeah so you know these these things I mean we're human you know and and we're we've got we've got perceptions expectations we we sometimes change our beliefs uh different things happen and so um so yeah there there's a hierarchy and uh it's it's really important and and but but I can assure you these these this this desire for neighborhood for community for I've got your back uh somebody that's that's proximate that lives proximate to us um is is all part of the yearning of the human soul too because we're so we're social beings we're not we're not meant to be hermits very few people thrive as hermits most of us uh most of us need some social interaction and so we have that that tension of self-expression and social uh of of I'm gonna do it my way but social interaction I don't want to be so individualistic that I become so weird that nobody wants to be my friend you know and and and so um you know so so that's where we are so I would encourage people that are looking at this thing maybe maybe take a year and just commit to um pick pick some neighbors pick and and and just say all right you know um um once a month we're gonna invite a family a neighbor family over for dinner reach out reach out and you would be surprised I think the kind of of um friendships you know maybe of those 12 in a year eight of them are really compatible four of them aren't that's fine you know that but but now but now you have eight you can't you can't sit around community is not gonna you're not gonna get community by sitting around just in your cave on Netflix doing your thing expecting somebody else to be friendly if you want friends you've got to show yourself friendly first you reach out first and you'd be surprised how desperate people are for somebody that cares about them.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: You be the first one that cares and you can build that community it's it's it's a lot closer than you think I think again some people I I yeah of course I'm dealing with a lot of wannabe farmers I want to farm want to farm well what are you doing now well I'm not you know I'm just reading and not doing well do you have a backyard?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah well do you have do you have a garden are you growing some squash are you are you canning you know uh are you cooking from well no no no no no well okay start doing that you know start doing that because very seldom do you do you get a whole enchilada dumped in your lap when you don't even know where the enchilada is and so you you know so you start incrementally and you move that direction that's such great advice thank you Joel for imparting your wisdom and doing it with humor I love that and thank you Nolan for your question and please I know we've said it before but keep your questions coming in like we love them and it helps guide our discussions toward what you want what you the people want.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for joining us and we will see you next week