Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Paul McCartney’s Bold Gamble: The Story of 'Back to the Egg' [Episode 351]

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Paul McCartney’s Bold Gamble: The Story of 'Back to the Egg' [Episode 351] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

0:00
Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy nine. Paul McCartney is back with Wings one
0:03
Speaker 1: last time, but he's not playing it safe. His album
0:06
Speaker 1: Back to the Egg was loud, bold and a little chaotic,
0:10
Speaker 1: a real mix of ambition and risk. Today we're diving
0:13
Speaker 1: into the story behind the songs, the album cover art,
0:16
Speaker 1: and a whole lot more. It's the final chapter of Wings.
0:20
Speaker 2: Next, we're totally booked rock and roll. I think I'll
0:25
Speaker 2: leave you. You're reading Little Hands says it's time.
0:27
Speaker 1: To rock and roll, roll out. I totally booked. Welcome
0:37
Speaker 1: back to Booked on Rockets the podcast for those about
0:39
Speaker 1: to read and rock, and we have a brand new
0:42
Speaker 1: guest on the show, looking forward to speaking to him
0:46
Speaker 1: today about the great Paul McCartney, Luca Parassi. He's the
0:50
Speaker 1: author of Back to the Egg, the story of Wings
0:53
Speaker 1: last album. Welcome to the podcast, Luca.
0:56
Speaker 2: Thanks Sherry Kiss. It's a great pleasure to be here
0:59
Speaker 2: with you and and I'm looking forward to discuss with
1:02
Speaker 2: you this book about an album which is a very
1:07
Speaker 2: a very special place in McCartney's discography, very well reverend
1:13
Speaker 2: and loved by fans, but not so much successful at
1:17
Speaker 2: the time. So there's so much to delve into.
1:21
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned that because that was really my
1:23
Speaker 1: first question is it's a great choice of an album
1:26
Speaker 1: from Paul's career. What led you to the decision to
1:28
Speaker 1: writing a book about this particular album.
1:30
Speaker 2: Well, I have started this a series of books which
1:33
Speaker 2: is called Milestones with the Band on the Run, which
1:37
Speaker 2: is the most popular McCartney's album, But at some point
1:43
Speaker 2: I thought it was good to, you know, turn my
1:47
Speaker 2: attention to other stuff. I also dedicated another book to
1:52
Speaker 2: Rescue Play, which is another album which has had no
1:59
Speaker 2: great Rens recognition at the time, but it's interesting for
2:03
Speaker 2: a number of reasons. So I had the opportunity to
2:07
Speaker 2: interview Loves Gibber, Wings guitarists at the time, so we
2:11
Speaker 2: had a long conversation together. We could really analyze song
2:18
Speaker 2: by song, we could analyze and thinking about what the
2:25
Speaker 2: relationships within Wings at the time, where many things that
2:30
Speaker 2: suggested me it was time to dedicate a whole book
2:35
Speaker 2: to Back to the Egg, which I know it's a
2:39
Speaker 2: very loved album by fans who are waiting for this
2:45
Speaker 2: archive collection which apparently is not coming, but who knows.
2:50
Speaker 2: And so I said, well, this is a good opportunity
2:53
Speaker 2: to offer an audience and readers lots of information about
2:58
Speaker 2: this album.
2:59
Speaker 1: It's this type of book that will have people going
3:01
Speaker 1: back and listen to the album and appreciate it, maybe
3:05
Speaker 1: more now than ever before. Which I'm going to ask
3:08
Speaker 1: you about what the critics said then and what they
3:11
Speaker 1: think about it now. But let's start with the lineup
3:14
Speaker 1: on this album. Who are the new members and also
3:17
Speaker 1: what led to the lineup change. There's a few members
3:20
Speaker 1: that are out of the lineup from the previous lineup.
3:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that Wings changed lineup quite frequently. Then
3:28
Speaker 2: you say, over the years, and so what happened in
3:34
Speaker 2: across summer and autumn nineteen seventy seven is that first
3:42
Speaker 2: guitarist Jim McCulloch left, apparently after an argument with Paul Or.
3:50
Speaker 2: I mean, there was a nasty situation at the time,
3:56
Speaker 2: and so at some point they decided to part ways.
4:01
Speaker 2: And it was out between August and September nineteen seventy seven.
4:08
Speaker 2: So there was some disagreement within the band and within
4:13
Speaker 2: the role that Jimmy mccal could could have played within
4:16
Speaker 2: the band, because sometimes, and this happens quite frequently with
4:22
Speaker 2: McCartney's music, you could have a great song, but maybe
4:28
Speaker 2: a guitar is not needed. So at some point he
4:31
Speaker 2: felt a bit restricted with this role within the band.
4:35
Speaker 2: And then in October seventy seven also the drummer Joe
4:39
Speaker 2: English left Wings because of personal reasons. So after a
4:44
Speaker 2: while they Paul and Danny Lane and Linda finished London
4:50
Speaker 2: Town and then at some point the time came to
4:58
Speaker 2: find new members for the band, and the two few
5:03
Speaker 2: members were guitarist Loves Jibber and drummer Steve Holly, and
5:08
Speaker 2: both joined Wings through Danny Lane, which was a kind
5:14
Speaker 2: of a recruiter within within Wings at the time, and
5:20
Speaker 2: so they rebuilt Wings and this is part of the
5:24
Speaker 2: first chapter of the book, so it explains in detail
5:31
Speaker 2: what happened and why the sound of this band is
5:36
Speaker 2: so different from the sound of the previous.
5:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a noticeable change here. It's it's got
5:43
Speaker 1: that harder edge to it. Yeah, what was the atmosphere
5:46
Speaker 1: of music at that time too, because that plays a
5:48
Speaker 1: role into Paul's decision making as to where he wanted
5:51
Speaker 1: to go, you know, as far as the sound and
5:54
Speaker 1: sonically and the songs that he was gonna put together
5:57
Speaker 1: for this album.
5:58
Speaker 2: Well, the music is a chain at the time, you
6:00
Speaker 2: know punk, a new wave where were way way wait
6:04
Speaker 2: in and so there's one interesting thing that people could
6:10
Speaker 2: learn here. And because this went down in history as
6:17
Speaker 2: a primarily rock album by Wings, so Back to the
6:23
Speaker 2: Egg is identified as a rock album because there's there's
6:27
Speaker 2: this many rockers in the album. The guitar sound is
6:31
Speaker 2: very aggressive and most of the pieces. Although it's not
6:36
Speaker 2: only that, but Paul was pressured to change his approach
6:44
Speaker 2: and style by by the record company. So he signed
6:51
Speaker 2: a new agreement with Columbia at the time, which was
6:55
Speaker 2: very interesting agreement for Paul at the time, and they
7:01
Speaker 2: pushed him to change a bit his style. So he
7:06
Speaker 2: was aware of changing the style compared to London Town
7:14
Speaker 2: and also to the previous one which was Wings at
7:16
Speaker 2: the Spirit of Sound, So there was a conscious decision
7:20
Speaker 2: to make a different album. Then we can delve in
7:25
Speaker 2: some of the songs and we will discover that Back
7:28
Speaker 2: to the Egg is many different genres of music, not
7:31
Speaker 2: only rockers. There's ballads, there's a touch of jazz, there's
7:36
Speaker 2: a soul. So it's very typical of McCartney. Maybe he
7:42
Speaker 2: wants to react to the music environment of the time,
7:48
Speaker 2: but at the same time, it keeps his style and
7:55
Speaker 2: variety of music.
7:58
Speaker 1: June nineteen seventy nine was least we should note and
8:01
Speaker 1: this was not intended to be the last Wings album,
8:03
Speaker 1: but it was. They were also working with a new producer,
8:06
Speaker 1: Chris Thomas. It had been a while since Paul worked
8:08
Speaker 1: with an outside producer, right since the Beatles days.
8:11
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he was the the only producer for himself
8:18
Speaker 2: during the seventies, so this is a This was the
8:22
Speaker 2: first in the seventies for him, except for I think
8:29
Speaker 2: Little Lady is a single as co production by George
8:33
Speaker 2: Martin if I'm not wrong. But as for an album, yeah,
8:37
Speaker 2: that was the first time, and so that's another that's
8:40
Speaker 2: another reason why we hear harder edge on the sound
8:46
Speaker 2: of Back to the Egg. The presence of Chris Thomas
8:49
Speaker 2: definitely played played the role.
8:52
Speaker 1: What was his background. He worked with Paul a bit
8:54
Speaker 1: on some projects. I think was a live album.
8:57
Speaker 2: He worked on some tapes for the Wings of her
9:01
Speaker 2: album live album, but he also worked with the Beatles.
9:06
Speaker 2: He had a part during the recording sessions of the
9:09
Speaker 2: White album, so obviously then more recently he had worked
9:16
Speaker 2: with the Sex Pistols and so That's why Paul thought
9:24
Speaker 2: Chris was a good move. He already knew him, and
9:29
Speaker 2: he knew that he could really add that missing rocking
9:36
Speaker 2: element from his music at the time.
9:40
Speaker 1: Hey guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
9:42
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9:44
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10:06
Speaker 1: Booked on ron. Also find a link in this episode
10:08
Speaker 1: show notes, or just go to bookd on rock dot
10:11
Speaker 1: com and click on my deals. The locations this album
10:15
Speaker 1: was recorded to there were more than a few. You're
10:18
Speaker 1: right that one location in Kent was nothing short of eccentric,
10:23
Speaker 1: A haunted.
10:23
Speaker 2: Castle, they say so. Yeah. They started in Scotland, where
10:27
Speaker 2: Paul had a recording studio, quite a remote location as well,
10:33
Speaker 2: but then they spent three weeks at Limcastle in Kent.
10:41
Speaker 2: There was the most experimental stuff of the album came
10:45
Speaker 2: out from the sessions, so probably the environment also h
10:52
Speaker 2: played a role in pushing Paul and the other members
10:56
Speaker 2: of Wings of you know, funding some new sounds, some
11:01
Speaker 2: strange ideas and stuff. So I think it's a fascinating
11:05
Speaker 2: aspect of Back to the Egg, and it's linked definitely
11:09
Speaker 2: to the locations where it was recorded.
11:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was interesting. I think in the
11:14
Speaker 1: beginning there they were recording outside. Paul liked to record outside,
11:18
Speaker 1: so he's trying different things.
11:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did it already for maul of Kin Tire,
11:24
Speaker 2: which was taped outside the barn in Scotland, and they
11:28
Speaker 2: did it again both in Scotland and then at Lincastle
11:34
Speaker 2: go Back to the Egg. So that's another thing I
11:38
Speaker 2: find fascinating because music is essentially feeling. So if you're
11:44
Speaker 2: searching for a special kind of atmosphere to convey and
11:51
Speaker 2: the song suggests that you can record a vocal part
11:56
Speaker 2: outside and it's the case to do it, and Paul
11:59
Speaker 2: likes to do these kind of things.
12:02
Speaker 1: I googled that castle, lim Castle and Kent I said,
12:05
Speaker 1: is it haunted?
12:06
Speaker 2: You know?
12:06
Speaker 1: And all these articles came up, But you are something
12:08
Speaker 1: in here. The chapter four, Ghosts from the Past, Limb Castle, Kent,
12:14
Speaker 1: September nineteen seventy eight. The sessions did not go so
12:17
Speaker 1: smoothly as hoped. Ghosts from Paul's past experience with Bend
12:21
Speaker 1: on the Run, when he was robbed of a cassette
12:23
Speaker 1: containing demos of songs recorded in Africa, and also oxide
12:27
Speaker 1: fell from the tapes while over dubbing in London, seemed
12:30
Speaker 1: to reappear at the castle.
12:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, because basically they started recording, but they lost a week,
12:36
Speaker 2: a whole week of recording because the tapes were deffective.
12:41
Speaker 2: And so that's one of the questions I asked the
12:44
Speaker 2: loads of gibbra, lots of gubbra. I said, what was
12:47
Speaker 2: your reaction when you discovered that you lost to a
12:50
Speaker 2: week of recording? And he simply said to be, well,
12:54
Speaker 2: you know, there's something it could happen, and then you
12:57
Speaker 2: start again. No tress or no big issue for them.
13:03
Speaker 2: They just restarted and but they lost a whole week
13:08
Speaker 2: of recordings. So it seemed to me, uh, you know,
13:12
Speaker 2: very very strange that these kind of things could happen
13:16
Speaker 2: in a haunted castle.
13:18
Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, credit to them, man, because if I
13:20
Speaker 1: lose a week's worth of recordings. I don't I don't
13:22
Speaker 1: know if I can be that laid back about. In fact,
13:25
Speaker 1: just before recording, I was trying to find my questions
13:27
Speaker 1: on the crowd and I couldn't find it.
13:29
Speaker 2: I'm like, what the.
13:29
Speaker 1: Hell's going on here? It lose a week worth of recording.
13:33
Speaker 1: It's no big deal. Yeah, it's it's uh, you know
13:35
Speaker 1: that's a sign too of of the time. I mean,
13:39
Speaker 1: you know that everything was on tape. Yeah, you know,
13:43
Speaker 1: it's not this is pretty digital era.
13:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, pre digital, and yeah, I think all the musicians
13:49
Speaker 2: were accustomed to to this kind of happenings. You know.
13:54
Speaker 2: Also also mall of Kinire had had a similar thing happening,
14:01
Speaker 2: because well, this is not related to Back to the Egg,
14:06
Speaker 2: but it gives us a better perspective of what could
14:10
Speaker 2: happen because what I discovered way back interviewing one of
14:15
Speaker 2: the assistant engineers that were there in Scotland, Tim Summerhes,
14:20
Speaker 2: who by the way, worked also on Back to the Egg,
14:23
Speaker 2: and he told me about mall of Kentire and it
14:26
Speaker 2: told me, Well, I was there with Joff Emerick and
14:29
Speaker 2: we were looking at the tapes and we noticed something
14:33
Speaker 2: strange and basically what happened is that there were moths
14:39
Speaker 2: attracted by lights squashed into the tapes and so they
14:44
Speaker 2: had to clean the tape. Oh wow, hoping that the
14:48
Speaker 2: tape were usable again or not having lost the recording
14:54
Speaker 2: of Mall of Kintyre. So this kind of these kind
14:58
Speaker 2: of events could really happen one any time, especially if
15:03
Speaker 2: you are not recording in a proper studio like Abbey
15:07
Speaker 2: Road or Air London stuff like that.
15:11
Speaker 1: Hey, speaking of abbey Road, they did record some music
15:16
Speaker 1: at abbey Road Studios our cover third nineteen seventy eight,
15:19
Speaker 1: one particular session. It's so interesting to me you talk
15:22
Speaker 1: about a supergroup, this is beyond super talk about this
15:26
Speaker 1: track rochestra theme, and who's on it, and also who's
15:29
Speaker 1: not on it because Keith Moon was supposed to be
15:32
Speaker 1: on it but he had just passed away.
15:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was an old idea by Paul to basically
15:39
Speaker 2: have a like an classical orchestra but made of rock instruments,
15:48
Speaker 2: so guitars, drums, basses, pianos, and put a super group
15:54
Speaker 2: of musicians together. So what happened was that he he
16:00
Speaker 2: talked about it with the other members of Wings. So
16:03
Speaker 2: they first recorded a track Rockester Theme, which was an
16:09
Speaker 2: old track that Paul wrote around nineteen seventy three, and
16:14
Speaker 2: they they overdubbed themselves at least three times. So they
16:20
Speaker 2: created a monster basic track as a sort of demo
16:26
Speaker 2: to present to the other musicians that joined Wings on
16:30
Speaker 2: the third of October ninety seventy eight at Abbey Road,
16:36
Speaker 2: pet Townsend was there, John Bonham was there, David Gilmour
16:42
Speaker 2: was there. I mean the total of musicians were twenty three,
16:46
Speaker 2: including Wings and a horn section. There there were some missing.
16:53
Speaker 2: Jeff Beck was thought to be in but didn't show up.
17:00
Speaker 2: Harry Clapton had the flu so he had to give up.
17:04
Speaker 2: Alton John has another commitment so he couldn't be there.
17:10
Speaker 2: But in the end they gathered the incredible musicians. So
17:16
Speaker 2: they got I think six or seven guitars, three drums,
17:22
Speaker 2: three basses, two or three pianos. There were percussion, Linda
17:27
Speaker 2: on organ, and so they put together these two tracks.
17:31
Speaker 2: The first one was rochestra theme and the second another
17:36
Speaker 2: number that Paul as appended in France in the summer,
17:41
Speaker 2: which was called so Glad to see You here. And
17:45
Speaker 2: so they went through the numbers two three takes at
17:49
Speaker 2: the most they put the basic track down. They were filmed,
17:56
Speaker 2: but the musicians didn't know Paul was filming, and so
18:02
Speaker 2: there's a video out there. Portions of the video were
18:07
Speaker 2: bootlegged since way back, and portions were also included in
18:13
Speaker 2: a couple of DVD of Paul McCartney. But at the
18:19
Speaker 2: time the musicians musicians didn't know that they were filmed.
18:23
Speaker 2: And so apparently this is one of the blocking factors
18:28
Speaker 2: for the Arcunt collection of the album. They had to
18:34
Speaker 2: give permission, right, I think so. So it's not a
18:37
Speaker 2: it's a rumor as it's floating around since the way back. Well,
18:42
Speaker 2: it's possible that someone says, well, I didn't know I
18:45
Speaker 2: was filmed, so can you please pay me? Blah blah blah.
18:50
Speaker 2: You never know, you never know.
18:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gilmore is on there, Pete Townsend, you mentioned John Bonham,
18:55
Speaker 1: Kenny Jones, Kenny John Paul Jones is in there too.
18:59
Speaker 1: Ronnie in there. Now, if you've got a seasoned zeppelineer,
19:04
Speaker 1: you can pick up on the Bonzo beat, I think,
19:07
Speaker 1: but you have to because there's so many musicians on there.
19:09
Speaker 1: So and it's not like it's not like Paul said
19:12
Speaker 1: any of them, Hey, you know, we want you to
19:14
Speaker 1: stand out and do your thing. It's it's an orchestra.
19:16
Speaker 1: They're all combined. So if you listen closely, you'll probably
19:20
Speaker 1: hear your favorite artists in there. I was trying to
19:23
Speaker 1: pick up on David Gilmore's tone maybe in there. But
19:26
Speaker 1: both tracks are fantastic. I love them.
19:28
Speaker 2: It's a clever kind of idea because you got all
19:33
Speaker 2: this this fantastic musicians together. But then the songs are
19:38
Speaker 2: so simple. You know, Roquester theme is just a one
19:43
Speaker 2: riff which is not particularly complicated. There's no virtuoso guitar
19:47
Speaker 2: solos in and the other the other half of the
19:52
Speaker 2: song is like a sequence of chords, nothing more. But
19:58
Speaker 2: then again it's it's a thing that Paul likes to do.
20:03
Speaker 2: He maybe calls in the most buoso and then asks
20:10
Speaker 2: for a completely different thing, right, So he likes to
20:13
Speaker 2: challenge his collaborators this way. So you got David Gilmore,
20:18
Speaker 2: but then there's no big solo. Well then there are
20:23
Speaker 2: other instances where you have Gilmore and you have a
20:30
Speaker 2: big solo, like was the case of normal Lonely Ice,
20:34
Speaker 2: but in this case, but in this case, you have
20:38
Speaker 2: to listen very attentively with your headphones to to understand
20:43
Speaker 2: a little bit better about the contributions of the various musicians.
20:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, no more Lonely Nights. As soon as I heard it,
20:50
Speaker 1: I knew that was David Gilmore being a Floyd fan.
20:53
Speaker 1: I mean, you just know it. So that's one of
20:55
Speaker 1: the well two of the fourteen tracks on the album,
20:57
Speaker 1: which we'll get two. But there was one time that
20:59
Speaker 1: could have on the album that wasn't good Night Tonight.
21:04
Speaker 1: A big hit label wanted it on the album. What
21:06
Speaker 1: was Paul's reason for leaving it off? This was a
21:09
Speaker 1: decision he This was something he had done before.
21:12
Speaker 2: Yes, because also in the case of moll Off kin Ti,
21:15
Speaker 2: they asked him to include the song on London Town
21:19
Speaker 2: and he didn't want to good Night Tonight. We could
21:25
Speaker 2: say that the style of good Night Tonight, which is lightly,
21:31
Speaker 2: let me say very lightly disco kind of song, but
21:37
Speaker 2: not that much, you can say that it's not it
21:41
Speaker 2: does not fit with the with the rest of the album.
21:45
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think it could have fit
21:48
Speaker 2: perfectly good Night Tonight and the B side Daytime Night
21:54
Speaker 2: and Suffering. But also in this case, Paul doesn't like
21:58
Speaker 2: to offer a standalone own single and then pick up
22:03
Speaker 2: the same song and included in an album because he
22:08
Speaker 2: always said, I feel I'm ripping off my fans, So
22:14
Speaker 2: that was the reason why. Basically, I agree that there's
22:20
Speaker 2: a there's an ethics to the business that you can
22:25
Speaker 2: agree or not, but at least there was there was
22:28
Speaker 2: an ethics to the business and that was primarily his
22:33
Speaker 2: reasons for not including the song. Then he prevented Back
22:39
Speaker 2: to the Egg to to sell more.
22:41
Speaker 1: Definitely, it did end up on the CD releases years later.
22:44
Speaker 2: I think initially they included good Night Tonight in a
22:49
Speaker 2: in the CD of McCartney too. Uh, then it was
22:53
Speaker 2: tagged on back to the Act, I think. So there
22:56
Speaker 2: was a mixture of of reissues with with good Night
23:00
Speaker 2: to Night here and there.
23:03
Speaker 1: Luca Parassi, the author of Back to the Egg, the
23:05
Speaker 1: story of Wings last album, what was the inspiration behind
23:09
Speaker 1: that title back to the Egg? And there's a loose
23:11
Speaker 1: concept to the album.
23:12
Speaker 2: Right, well, this other concept album. I mean, there was
23:15
Speaker 2: a there was an idea imposed mind to have a
23:19
Speaker 2: sort of concept of a unifying concept or unifying thread,
23:25
Speaker 2: but that there's not much you can really understand, and
23:31
Speaker 2: you know, back to it, we know that Paul has
23:34
Speaker 2: got a sort of passion for eggs. So the working
23:40
Speaker 2: title for Yesterday was for for for some weeks once
23:46
Speaker 2: was scrambled eggs, So Paul definitely likes eggs. And well,
23:52
Speaker 2: I discovered something quite nice. I don't want to disclose
23:57
Speaker 2: too much and leave it to the readers, but there
24:02
Speaker 2: was definitely a cover of an album release at the
24:07
Speaker 2: time before Back to the Act that could have been
24:10
Speaker 2: an inspiration for for the title. And uh, they shot
24:17
Speaker 2: the cover for the album which was kind of, let
24:22
Speaker 2: me say, esoteric, kind of mysterious, kind of inspired to
24:28
Speaker 2: to science fiction things, which Paul was definitely a fan of.
24:36
Speaker 2: So there's a there's an interesting element also for the
24:41
Speaker 2: title of the album and the cover.
24:47
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25:12
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25:15
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25:21
Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
25:24
Speaker 1: to the show. The album opens with the minute eight
25:28
Speaker 1: second long Reception, which you say, maybe the most eccentric
25:31
Speaker 1: opening in the hole McCartney discography. What are we hearing here?
25:35
Speaker 1: A bit of a dark side of the Moon type
25:37
Speaker 1: of spoken word thing in there.
25:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you took the few takes. The basic track
25:41
Speaker 2: as a great bass riff by Paul and the kind
25:47
Speaker 2: of a funky groove on guitars, which I like very much.
25:50
Speaker 2: But then there's lots of radio stuff noses that come in, uh,
26:00
Speaker 2: some spoken words which by the way, were by the
26:06
Speaker 2: two owners of Lindcastle. So during the nights and the evenings,
26:12
Speaker 2: Paul and Linda likes to chat with the owners and
26:16
Speaker 2: they Paul discovered that they had some interesting voices. Then
26:21
Speaker 2: he had the idea of having them reading, ah, some
26:30
Speaker 2: accepts of books that were definitely in their library. Uh.
26:36
Speaker 2: And then the radio noise. It's it's another concept that
26:41
Speaker 2: Paul wanted to explore. It was not something new Uh,
26:47
Speaker 2: there were some experiments by John Cage. Uh, definitely done
26:53
Speaker 2: in the past. So I think it's kind of a
26:55
Speaker 2: nod to this experimental tradition. So it's kind of Pink
27:02
Speaker 2: Floydish eccentric opening, and I think it sets the tone
27:09
Speaker 2: for the album.
27:11
Speaker 1: And it goes right into Getting Closer, which is one
27:14
Speaker 1: of the singles from the album. This one, you say
27:17
Speaker 1: may go as far back as the early seventies.
27:20
Speaker 2: Yes, Paul likes to amass lots of songs and ideas,
27:25
Speaker 2: so there's a recording of Getting Closer that walks back
27:30
Speaker 2: to nineteen seventy three. And that's an interesting thing because
27:36
Speaker 2: this tape was recorded at Dustin Offman's house when Paul
27:44
Speaker 2: visited him in April ninety seventy three and Nothlan was
27:52
Speaker 2: filming Pappy On there in Jamaica and Paul was their
27:56
Speaker 2: vacationing and they met and there Paul wrote Picassa's last
28:01
Speaker 2: words upon Dasin Offmann's requests, and then the day after
28:06
Speaker 2: they recorded nothing recorded Paul while singing some of his songs,
28:12
Speaker 2: and one of one of the songs is Getting Closer.
28:17
Speaker 2: So it's definitely something that was cooking, at least from
28:24
Speaker 2: five years.
28:25
Speaker 1: This is followed by We're Open Tonight and then one
28:30
Speaker 1: of my favorite tracks, spin It On, which is as
28:32
Speaker 1: a rocker again and again and again. That's track five,
28:37
Speaker 1: Track six, another single Old Siam Sir, another rocker on
28:41
Speaker 1: this album. There's quite a few of them on here.
28:42
Speaker 1: Talk about how this song came together. You say it
28:44
Speaker 1: was a group effort on this one, and what's the
28:47
Speaker 1: title meaning.
28:49
Speaker 2: It's a group effort? And there was some talk about
28:55
Speaker 2: maybe Steve Holly, who contributed the middle section of the
29:02
Speaker 2: song is not is not credited as a as a
29:07
Speaker 2: co author and I I raised this point to Lord
29:12
Speaker 2: Jobber when we were talking together. I said, do you
29:15
Speaker 2: think it's it's fair or not having a CEVALI as
29:23
Speaker 2: a as a co author? Said, well, probably today it
29:27
Speaker 2: would have been included as a co author. At the time,
29:33
Speaker 2: maybe rules were more linked to who wrote the main
29:41
Speaker 2: melody for the song, who wrote the harmony? Uh? And
29:46
Speaker 2: so it was not creative but again uh that that
29:51
Speaker 2: proves a group dimension of back to the Egg, especially
29:57
Speaker 2: on this song. Linda contributed the the keyboard riff and
30:02
Speaker 2: see only the drummer contribute to the odd sequences sequence
30:07
Speaker 2: for the middle eighth, Well, the title. You're ask him
30:12
Speaker 2: about the title, it's it's a fantasy thing. Paul likes to,
30:17
Speaker 2: you know, to make up lots of stuff. So the
30:23
Speaker 2: story is a bit confusing or a bit mysterious, if
30:27
Speaker 2: you like the more the words. So there's a lady
30:31
Speaker 2: who's trying to you meet someone, and then something strange
30:37
Speaker 2: happens and she tries to escape. And I mean it's
30:41
Speaker 2: a it's not it's not easy to follow what really
30:45
Speaker 2: Paul wants to say here, but that's part of obvious fascination.
30:53
Speaker 2: Let me say, as a lyricist, and you can always
30:56
Speaker 2: attach your own meaning to to his lyrics.
31:00
Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, it's just a fictitious
31:04
Speaker 1: something created in his mind. My personal pick is the
31:07
Speaker 1: album singles Go Arrow Through Me, which in side one.
31:12
Speaker 1: If you can't share with the drummer, Steve Holly said
31:14
Speaker 1: about the percussion work on here, particularly the part about
31:18
Speaker 1: an intimate he uses called the flexotone, and he even
31:22
Speaker 1: points out nine specific moments that you can hear it
31:25
Speaker 1: throughout the track.
31:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, the flexatone is really a subtle kind of effect
31:33
Speaker 2: that you can really put your best headphones to hear this,
31:38
Speaker 2: and I took my time to identify this this specific
31:46
Speaker 2: moments within the song. So this is an example of
31:52
Speaker 2: how Pole is skilled in putting bacon track. Ah, laying
32:00
Speaker 2: down a bacon track. Uh. So Ollie him on a
32:05
Speaker 2: lecture piano and Steve Ollie on drums, which were recorded
32:13
Speaker 2: in a special way. So also Paul likes to experiment
32:18
Speaker 2: with recording at half speed and then you when you
32:23
Speaker 2: play back the tape, ah, the sound is is completely different.
32:29
Speaker 2: So that that is an old thing that the Beatles
32:33
Speaker 2: did so many times. And so then Polly added the
32:38
Speaker 2: flexoton and yes, I I have pointed out all this,
32:44
Speaker 2: uh these spots where you can hear the flexoton because
32:47
Speaker 2: it's not really easy to detect. Then the rest of
32:52
Speaker 2: you the arrangement. There's no guitars on that day when
32:56
Speaker 2: they recorded the song. Both Danny Lane and Los Juba
33:00
Speaker 2: were not present. They had a day off. But notwithstanding
33:04
Speaker 2: that they recorded the track. They added more keyboards, so
33:10
Speaker 2: there's a moog, there's lots of great synthesizer on on
33:15
Speaker 2: the track. And then the last touch was this big
33:20
Speaker 2: horn arrangement, which is definitely a key part of the song.
33:27
Speaker 2: I like the song and I think is the best
33:32
Speaker 2: is the best piece on the album.
33:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just classic McCartney. Side two opens with the
33:37
Speaker 1: rockestra theme which we talked about. That's followed by two
33:40
Speaker 1: you another rocker and if you get a queen Brian
33:44
Speaker 1: May vibe here after hearing the solos, there's a reason
33:48
Speaker 1: what's the studio trick we hear on this track on
33:51
Speaker 1: the solos in particular.
33:53
Speaker 2: Lons uber us an harmonizer and so that's thatally changes
34:02
Speaker 2: the pitch of the guitar and so you you achieve
34:08
Speaker 2: a sound which is very characteristic and as you mentioned,
34:16
Speaker 2: Quinn used it many times. So there's a there's a
34:22
Speaker 2: uninteresting parallel that you can that you can make between
34:27
Speaker 2: the sound of the guitar of Flos Guber and the
34:30
Speaker 2: sound of Brian May here.
34:33
Speaker 1: Then what follows are four songs packed into two. Track
34:38
Speaker 1: three titled The Ball Slash Million Miles, Track four Winter,
34:42
Speaker 1: Row Slash Love Awake. Those really happened by accident. Was
34:46
Speaker 1: like anything intentional from Paul, It just kind of worked
34:49
Speaker 1: well together.
34:51
Speaker 2: Paul is a songwriter, which is a very prolific songwriter.
34:55
Speaker 2: So sometimes you just have has a you know, a
35:01
Speaker 2: chorus or a couple of verses, but then it misses
35:06
Speaker 2: something or rethinks that a particular song is not could
35:11
Speaker 2: not really stand on its own. So that's the reason
35:15
Speaker 2: why he likes to finish it attaching it to another song.
35:21
Speaker 2: So I think these two medals are very good and
35:24
Speaker 2: they work perfectly together. Maybe two different two medley's in
35:32
Speaker 2: a row. Could you can argue it's a bit too much. Well,
35:38
Speaker 2: I think it's a nice diversion in the in the
35:40
Speaker 2: context of the album.
35:42
Speaker 1: They're beautiful med least that we have the broadcast, you
35:45
Speaker 1: call it one of the quirkiest tracks on the album.
35:48
Speaker 1: What are we hearing here? Or should I say who
35:51
Speaker 1: are we hearing?
35:51
Speaker 2: On this? This is a classical piano part played by Paul,
35:57
Speaker 2: which is very nice and although Macay at the time
36:00
Speaker 2: said that it was not a fan of classical music,
36:04
Speaker 2: but then you you hear the broadcast and this piano
36:09
Speaker 2: part is definitely classical, classical inspired. And then there's the
36:15
Speaker 2: the nice effect here is is this fake strings that
36:20
Speaker 2: you can hear in the background, that are they are
36:25
Speaker 2: achieved through this device called gismotron or gismutron. I don't
36:31
Speaker 2: or exactly, which is the pronunciation which basically you apply
36:37
Speaker 2: this device to your lecture guitar and then you touch
36:42
Speaker 2: the strings and you have this really long sustain which
36:48
Speaker 2: creates this, uh, this effect of having strings without the
36:54
Speaker 2: problem of hiring a complete string section. But the effort
37:01
Speaker 2: is very nice.
37:02
Speaker 1: Didn't he end Upaul end up doing a classical album
37:04
Speaker 1: late late eighties.
37:05
Speaker 2: That's why I was mentioning is dislike, let me say,
37:11
Speaker 2: for classical music at the time, because his first classical
37:18
Speaker 2: work is The Liverpool Autoriom, which was released in nineteen
37:22
Speaker 2: ninety one. Paul started writing it in ninety eighty eight
37:29
Speaker 2: with Carl Davis, so that was the first of many.
37:33
Speaker 2: So at some point he changes mind or he thought
37:39
Speaker 2: that it's a prestigious kind of thing and it's very
37:45
Speaker 2: nice to hear your ideas being played by a whole orchestra,
37:53
Speaker 2: and so and so. At some point he started also
37:58
Speaker 2: a different career as a classical.
38:02
Speaker 1: Find the bookdown Rock website at booked on rock dot com.
38:06
Speaker 1: Therein can find all the back episodes of the show,
38:08
Speaker 1: the latest episode in video and audio links to all
38:11
Speaker 1: of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
38:13
Speaker 1: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
38:19
Speaker 1: and x. Also check out the booked on rockblog. Find
38:22
Speaker 1: your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest hot
38:25
Speaker 1: rock book releases, and before you go, check out the
38:28
Speaker 1: booked on Rock online store. Pick up some booked on
38:30
Speaker 1: rock merch. It's all at booked on rock dot com.
38:35
Speaker 1: The musicians we hear on Rockestra theme back on so
38:38
Speaker 1: glad to see you here? Baby's request an unexpected smoky
38:42
Speaker 1: late night club number. Is how you describe it? That
38:45
Speaker 1: completes the album? Now, the album cover art, there's a
38:48
Speaker 1: whole chapter devoted to the album cover art. What is
38:51
Speaker 1: the story behind what we see on the cover of
38:54
Speaker 1: Back to the Egg.
38:55
Speaker 2: We see the group the Wings, which are looking uh
39:01
Speaker 2: through a sort of window on beneath a carpet and
39:06
Speaker 2: a there's a there's a planet Earth. They are just
39:14
Speaker 2: just looking at and to understand it better because it's
39:19
Speaker 2: it's not really easy to understand what what really means.
39:23
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean nothing in particular. But there was a
39:27
Speaker 2: whole sequence filmed by the band, and so I asked, uh,
39:33
Speaker 2: Londa Jubber, what what do you what did you think
39:38
Speaker 2: about it? At the time, and they said to me, well,
39:40
Speaker 2: I was I was just thinking we were doing a
39:44
Speaker 2: short film, but it was intended for a poster, for
39:47
Speaker 2: a promotional poster, so he didn't know that it was
39:51
Speaker 2: meant to be the cover. So as it happens up
39:56
Speaker 2: sometimes Paul looked at this photo, he liked it, and
40:04
Speaker 2: then they decided to have it as a covert. But
40:08
Speaker 2: it's not linked in any way to do anything that
40:14
Speaker 2: is included in the album.
40:16
Speaker 1: Okay, nothing to read into, nothing to read it, but
40:19
Speaker 1: it is a cool actory.
40:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
40:22
Speaker 1: The album charted in the top ten around the world,
40:25
Speaker 1: certified platinum in the United States, however, considered a commercial failure,
40:31
Speaker 1: but that's the level of expectations that Paul had, especially
40:35
Speaker 1: after that record Deally signed was quite lucrative, so there
40:37
Speaker 1: was a lot of pressure on him. But there's a
40:39
Speaker 1: quote from Paul in the introduction that you have in there.
40:43
Speaker 1: He says, quote, I think about our version of Wings
40:46
Speaker 1: as Indian Summer.
40:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, this album was, as was the case as many
40:53
Speaker 2: all mccarta's album at mixed reviews. I mean, it's a
40:58
Speaker 2: kind of an obvious kind of formula when it comes
41:01
Speaker 2: to the critical acclaim, but definitely this configuration of Wings
41:10
Speaker 2: is fascinating. At the same time, it was the last.
41:15
Speaker 2: It was the last configuration of Wings, and then they
41:18
Speaker 2: went into a brief UK tour, they had this incident
41:24
Speaker 2: in Japan and so this this remained the last Wings configuration.
41:32
Speaker 2: So my opinion is that it was it wasn't any
41:38
Speaker 2: more for Paul time for having a group, for having
41:42
Speaker 2: a band. They had the newborn James in ninety seventy seven.
41:50
Speaker 2: He had different, different goals in his mind. So also
41:56
Speaker 2: also Lawrence Jobert admitted that felt a bit tied. Sometimes
42:04
Speaker 2: it's not easy to have a band. There's lots of
42:11
Speaker 2: things that you have to take care of and at
42:13
Speaker 2: the time McCartney wanted something different.
42:17
Speaker 1: Much more in the book, including the promotion of the album,
42:20
Speaker 1: other songs from the sessions, the aftermath of Back to
42:23
Speaker 1: the Egg, the British tour, Wings to Japan, the tour
42:25
Speaker 1: that never was, as you just mentioned, the demise of
42:28
Speaker 1: the group. It's called Back to the Egg, The Story
42:30
Speaker 1: of Wings last album. It is out and now it's
42:33
Speaker 1: been out since the fall. You can find it wherever
42:35
Speaker 1: books are sold, and you can find it at your
42:37
Speaker 1: nearest bookstore. If you want to look for it at
42:39
Speaker 1: your nearest independent bookstore, you can go to book down
42:41
Speaker 1: rock dot com and look for your nearest independent bookstore.
42:44
Speaker 1: And can people reach out to you online?
42:47
Speaker 2: Luca, Yeah, definitely. I got an Instagram account which is
42:51
Speaker 2: a very active I'm on x I'm on blue Ski,
42:57
Speaker 2: I'm on Facebook. There's also a website for the publisher
43:04
Speaker 2: Lily Publishing dot com, and so plenty of opportunities to
43:10
Speaker 2: reach out to me. Thank you so much, Luca, Thanks Erice,
43:13
Speaker 2: it was a pleasure. Thank you very much for this chat.
43:24
Speaker 2: That's it. It's in the boox.