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Massey Bridge or Tunnel? | Political Capital Daily · Political Capital with Rob Shaw

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  Speaker 1: or chartered flights. For more, visit Helijet.com. It's Friday, October 16th, 2026,
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  Speaker 1: and this is Political Capital Daily. Well, good morning. Happy Friday.
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  Speaker 1: We've made it to the end of another week in B.C. politics. Hallelujah.
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  Speaker 1: Although the weekends just carry on as we enter the
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  Speaker 1: homestretch of the campaign. Today, advanced voting begins 8 a.m.
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  Speaker 2: To 8 p.m.
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  Speaker 1: If you want to skip the line, although I guess
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  Speaker 1: as more people go to advanced voting, there is bigger lines.
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  Speaker 1: But nonetheless, there are six days of advanced voting. You
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  Speaker 1: can start it today at any voting location in the province.
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  Speaker 1: There's a big website list on the elections B.C., site,
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  Speaker 1: and obviously that takes us into the actual election day,
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  Speaker 1: which is October the 24th. Not to be confused with
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  Speaker 1: municipal election day, which is Saturday, October 17th. Look, you
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  Speaker 1: gotta get like a day timer or some sort of
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  Speaker 1: Google calendar going to keep track of all these dates. Luckily,
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  Speaker 1: we got folks who can chat with us about, put
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  Speaker 1: it all in perspective. Nicole Broussard is here, and Todd Stone,
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  Speaker 1: former BC Liberal Transportation Minister. Todd Stone has Good to
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  Speaker 1: hear from you. Thanks for coming on the show, and thanks, Nicole,
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  Speaker 1: as well.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, nice to meet you. I am so excited to
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  Speaker 3: do this, Rob. It's going to be great.
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  Speaker 1: We have three hours set aside to talk about ferries. No,
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  Speaker 1: we're not going to do that, but we are going
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  Speaker 1: to jump into a topic that is back in your wheelhouse, Todd,
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  Speaker 1: from your days on the Massey Crossing. So the BC
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  Speaker 1: Conservatives yesterday, their big announcement is get rid of the
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  Speaker 1: NDP's tunnel and go back to the 10-lane bridge plan
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  Speaker 1: at the Massey Crossing, which you remember from your days
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  Speaker 1: as Transportation Minister, a 10-lane bridge. No cost to disclose
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  Speaker 1: on that. The tunnel is $ 8. 5 billion, way over budget.
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  Speaker 1: What did you make, Todd? We'll start with you on
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  Speaker 1: that announcement. Is it a vote-getter? The counterpoint from the
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  Speaker 1: NDP being, this is taking too long, we should just
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  Speaker 1: do the tunnel. what do you think of the bridge
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  Speaker 1: now being back in play in the year of 2026? Well, uh,
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  Speaker 1: first off, let's just be really clear. Uh, the tunnel
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  Speaker 1: that the NDP have proposed, I don't think it actually
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  Speaker 1: is ever going to get built. Like I just, I,
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  Speaker 1: it is, it has taken, um, a whole bunch of
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  Speaker 1: effort and energy and time to get to a, to
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  Speaker 1: this point here and now. Uh, and there's, there's really
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  Speaker 1: not a heck of a lot of progress to show
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  Speaker 1: for it other than a massively increased price tag associated
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  Speaker 1: with it. Um, The flip side of that is, frankly,
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  Speaker 1: when I think back on my time as transportation minister
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  Speaker 1: and you get pretty involved in transportation usually all around
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  Speaker 1: the province, there's probably no group of people that have
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  Speaker 1: been more disregarded from a critical transportation perspective than people
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  Speaker 1: that live south of the Fraser. And I mean that
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  Speaker 1: from the perspective of It's been to replace the tunnel
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  Speaker 1: with a bridge or a tunnel. This has spanned, no
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  Speaker 1: pun intended, has spanned multiple governments of both parties.
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  Speaker 3: It's a political football that's gone back and forth and
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  Speaker 3: back and forth and back and forth. You live in Delta.
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  Speaker 3: You live in Tawasin. You just want to be able
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  Speaker 3: to get to where you're going in a timely fashion
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  Speaker 3: and not be stuck in traffic. That all being said,
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  Speaker 3: The Massey tunnel that we were, frankly, within weeks of
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  Speaker 3: it being past the point of no return, and this
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  Speaker 3: was going back to the 2017 timeframe, just before the
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  Speaker 3: 2017 election. Just to refresh everyone's memory, that was a $ 2. 6
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  Speaker 3: billion costed bridge. We basically had picked the contractor that
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  Speaker 3: was going to build it. We all just had to
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  Speaker 3: sign the contract. There was one more Treasury Board meeting
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  Speaker 3: to have to make that happen. And it got scheduled
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  Speaker 3: on the wrong side of the election. And for $ 2. 6 billion,
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  Speaker 3: British Columbians would have received a 10-lane bridge, multiple interchange improvements,
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  Speaker 3: rapid transit upgrades, all kinds of other bells and whistles
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  Speaker 3: associated with this. And that bridge would have been opened
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  Speaker 3: and in use in 2022, you know, like four years ago.
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  Speaker 3: So I.
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  Speaker 3: There is a part of me that's, you know, okay,
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  Speaker 3: good on the conservatives for, you know, suggesting to go
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  Speaker 3: back to the bridge plan. But man, like we got
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  Speaker 3: to figure out how to do these long-term transportation improvements
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  Speaker 3: better in terms of like somehow insulating them from the
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  Speaker 3: political footballs of, you know, elections and government changing hands.
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  Speaker 3: The NDP have been in power for almost 10 years though.
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  Speaker 3: So they have had more than enough time to build this,
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  Speaker 3: this tunnel. If indeed that was seriously going to be
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  Speaker 3: an option that we would ever, ever cut a ribbon
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  Speaker 3: on and opened to traffic.
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  Speaker 1: Still not, still Nicole does not have environmental approval, the
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  Speaker 1: tunnel project. So it hasn't actually kind of, although the
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  Speaker 1: NDP says past the point of no return, I guess
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  Speaker 1: that's a debatable question here. Do you think people are
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  Speaker 1: going to change their votes or this is a top
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  Speaker 1: issue for them? Some folks could be listening to this
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  Speaker 1: in the worst traffic bottleneck in the province right now.
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  Speaker 1: Does it, is it a vote getter, do you think?
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  Speaker 4: Oh, this is one that personally hurts me because I
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  Speaker 4: was a part of the bid team that was pursuing
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  Speaker 4: this tunnel project. But on that project, we also had
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  Speaker 4: folks who had bid on it when it was originally
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  Speaker 4: a bridge. And so we were part of this consortium
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  Speaker 4: of people who had been working on this project for
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  Speaker 4: the better part of 20 years. So we were intimately
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  Speaker 4: involved in all the different variations of this and what
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  Speaker 4: it was going to cost and what it wasn't going
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  Speaker 4: to cost. And part of that was a big piece
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  Speaker 4: of stakeholder engagement with folks on both sides of the
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  Speaker 4: river about how they.
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  Speaker 2: Felt about it.
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  Speaker 4: And there had been a lot of, I guess, discussion
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  Speaker 4: at the federal level too about federal MPs saying we
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  Speaker 4: need to get this done, like I will lose my seat.
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  Speaker 4: Or even MLA saying we need to get this done,
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  Speaker 4: I will lose my seat. But then every year they
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  Speaker 4: wouldn't lose their seat when the tunnel or the bridge
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  Speaker 4: wasn't built. And so it kind of started to fall
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  Speaker 4: off the wayside in terms of things that were becoming
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  Speaker 4: a real flashpoint.
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  Speaker 3: Voters.
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  Speaker 2: But now at this point, how many times can we
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  Speaker 2: do this? We've canceled this.
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  Speaker 4: We've repackaged it into five packages, gone out to the
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  Speaker 4: market again to redo the work that was already done.
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  Speaker 4: And they've already sunk probably 500 to a billion into
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  Speaker 4: this pre-work, this clearing, the tree clearing.
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  Speaker 2: All that stuff that's been done already.
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  Speaker 4: And so I don't think it's too far down the
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  Speaker 4: road where they can't pull it back and turn it
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  Speaker 4: into a bridge.
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  Speaker 2: But at some point, this needs to get done.
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  Speaker 4: It's kind of feeling like When you go on holidays
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  Speaker 4: and it's a really nice holiday and it's expensive and
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  Speaker 4: it kind of hurts to put it on your credit card.
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  Speaker 4: But then when you go on holiday and come home,
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  Speaker 4: you never think about how much that vacation cost. You
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  Speaker 4: just know that you had a good time and you
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  Speaker 4: got where you needed to go in a timely manner.
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  Speaker 4: So that's, we just need to get this done.
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  Speaker 1: The tunnel or the bridge, yeah. It was a lot
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  Speaker 1: of transportation talk yesterday in the campaign, Todd. Blacktop politics,
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  Speaker 1: as we call it. There was promises from David Eby
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  Speaker 1: on gas station, you know, gas prices in Surrey. Free
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  Speaker 1: transit passes for low-income seniors, rapid bus from Surrey to
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  Speaker 1: White Rock, a new highway connector in Sooke, a new
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  Speaker 1: bus route to the Cowichan Hospital, tons of transportation. How
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  Speaker 1: well does that sort of play, you know, in an
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  Speaker 1: election when you can go to a local community and say,
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  Speaker 1: we're going to do this transportation project for you? How
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  Speaker 1: kind of powerful is that in an election, do you think?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think transportation is a hugely powerful announceable in
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  Speaker 3: an election campaign. Why? Because I think it's one of
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  Speaker 3: those provincial issues that actually hits the closest to home
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  Speaker 3: for people. A lot of times we're talking about issues
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  Speaker 3: that might seem a bit distant or more removed from
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  Speaker 3: people's day-to-day lives. Transportation is so critically important, especially if
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  Speaker 3: you're talking about Things like you're going to add on
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  Speaker 3: additional frequency or new routes for transit buses or handy
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  Speaker 3: dart service for seniors or four-laning a short but important
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  Speaker 3: section of highway through a community which connects that community
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  Speaker 3: to other parts of, say, the Lower Mainland. I think
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  Speaker 3: people do actually factor those kinds of, call it blacktop
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  Speaker 3: politics if you want, but I think they factor that
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  Speaker 3: into their evaluation in an election campaign because these projects
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  Speaker 3: can tend to be very local. I'll just say this.
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  Speaker 3: When I would be out there as a minister announcing
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  Speaker 3: a new six-lane project or doing a big four-laning section
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  Speaker 3: somewhere on a rural highway, Yeah, people would kind of,
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  Speaker 3: they appreciate that. But when you're talking about a piece
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  Speaker 3: of transportation infrastructure that's local to their community and an
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  Speaker 3: improvement that they're actually going to realize and use and
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  Speaker 3: benefit from every single day, that really resonates with people.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Right, let's just cut in for a quick break here
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  Speaker 2: Back to the show.
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  Speaker 1: All right, let's jump back in. Why don't we, while
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  Speaker 1: we have you both here, touch on what you thought
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  Speaker 1: about the leaders debate, which I think people are still
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  Speaker 1: trying to digest, Nicole, we'll go to you first on
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  Speaker 1: this one. Like, you know, it sounds cliche to say
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  Speaker 1: there were no knockout blows. Rarely do we ever get
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  Speaker 1: those in debates. But there were, as the kids say,
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  Speaker 1: vibes on the leaders. And what did you come away with,
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  Speaker 1: you know, 24, 48 hours after the debate now kind
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  Speaker 1: of feeling was accomplished in it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, not a lot.
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  Speaker 4: It was perfectly boring, I thought, and it was great,
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  Speaker 4: I think, for Lorne Dirksen to introduce himself. Didn't really
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  Speaker 4: step in it. That was a win for them. Emily
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  Speaker 4: Lohan with the BC Greens really was able to take
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: it to the house a little bit and come up
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  Speaker 4: with a couple really good hits on.
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  Speaker 2: Both of the other leaders. I think that was good.
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  Speaker 4: EB needed to have a higher podium and then maybe
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  Speaker 4: look a little less defensive overall, but Yeah, there were some,
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  Speaker 4: there weren't really any knockout blows, like you said, and
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  Speaker 4: it feels like these debates are watched less and less.
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  Speaker 4: I'd love to see some stats on this, like how
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  Speaker 4: many people are actually tuning in for these debates. All
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  Speaker 4: of us who are gigantic political nerds of my friend group,
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  Speaker 4: maybe only like.
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  Speaker 2: Half tuned in.
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  Speaker 4: And most of that content from that debate was just
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  Speaker 4: used in attack ads by their campaign, just attacking each
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  Speaker 4: other over the next 24 hours. And so You're not
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  Speaker 4: really getting a full picture if you didn't sit down
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  Speaker 4: and watch the whole hour and a half debate of
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  Speaker 4: what took place and whether that changed your mind. Because
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: you're just going to see all of those ads pumped
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  Speaker 4: out over the next week as we head towards election day.
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  Speaker 4: And that's really what those campaigns were using that debate for.
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  Speaker 1: It's interesting, Todd, because I agree with Nicole. I'm not
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  Speaker 1: sure if it's the seminal event that it used to be,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: but it's such a.
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  Speaker 1: Foundational part of an election along with platforms that people
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: kind of expect, you know, they want a platform and
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: they want a leaders debate, but maybe they don't read
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: them or watch them. But if you would take them away,
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  Speaker 1: it would probably be a problem, uh, that people would
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  Speaker 1: be upset about. And just like kind of all candidates debates.
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  Speaker 1: Did you come away feeling like anybody would have been
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  Speaker 1: influenced by watching that debate, um, the other night and
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  Speaker 1: what you thought of it?
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  Speaker 3: Uh, the debate that we watched the other night, I
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  Speaker 3: don't think, um, I don't think people are walking away
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  Speaker 3: from that debate in huge numbers going, oh, okay, there
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  Speaker 3: was a moment that completely changed my mind and I'm
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: going to vote differently than maybe I was leaning towards
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  Speaker 3: before I watched the debate. I actually think what you
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: said at the outset of this segment, that the debates
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: just aren't what they used to be, I think is
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: probably the truest statement. Frankly, I think for the leaders,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: anyone that can, can come out of that debate relatively unscathed,
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  Speaker 3: meaning you haven't lost any ground is probably a win
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: for you. Like whether you're the, you know, the incumbent
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  Speaker 3: or you're one of the challengers, if you can just
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  Speaker 3: go into this thing and not step in it and not,
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  Speaker 3: you know, have, have a moment where, you know, you've
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: really opened yourself up for that, for that, that, that below.
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  Speaker 3: I think you, I think you've done well. Just like
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  Speaker 3: Nicole said, I, I agree. I think, I think Lauren,
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  Speaker 3: you know, had some very strong moments. He was, he was,
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  Speaker 3: He was quite nervous at the beginning of the debate,
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  Speaker 3: but the nervousness seemed to dissipate the longer it went on.
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  Speaker 3: Every time he was talking about taxes and affordability and
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  Speaker 3: the economy and forestry in the interior, very, very strong.
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  Speaker 3: I think EB was the least nervous. Obviously, you expect
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  Speaker 3: that from the Premier. He's tested. He's very smooth in
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  Speaker 3: his delivery. And he had a lot of explaining to
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  Speaker 3: do in this debate. It's obviously his record, a combination
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  Speaker 3: of his and John Horgan's before him that he had
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  Speaker 3: to defend. And I think he did that fairly skillfully.
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  Speaker 3: And then last but certainly not least, I was actually
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  Speaker 3: really impressed with Emily. I thought she was feisty and well-spoken.
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  Speaker 3: She did land some blows. And, you know, I loved
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: her line where she, you know, she looked over at
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  Speaker 3: the premier and said, this year's election bribes are next
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  Speaker 3: year's broken promises, sir.
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  Speaker 1: It was a great time, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just, I mean, she, for her to
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  Speaker 3: walk into that room and stand up on that stage and,
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  Speaker 3: you know, outline her thoughts on the future of the
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: province on behalf of her candidates and her party, you know,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I don't agree with most of what the Green Party,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: you know, puts out there, obviously politically, but I thought
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  Speaker 3: she did exceptionally well. I think she should be very
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: proud of herself.
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  Speaker 1: Just a couple of minutes left in the show here,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: but I want to get your thoughts on this other
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: story that came out, which is a plan from the
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: government before the election in some confidential documents that got
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: leaked to basically strip the logging tenures from forest companies
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: on as many as 400 parcels of crown land that
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the government intends to transfer to First Nations. Now, the government,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the NDP, say that these parcels, and we don't have
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a full list of them, go back to treaties from
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: as long as a decade ago. And the province can't
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: afford to compensate the forest companies to remove the logging
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: rights when they transfer them over. The forest industry says
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: it's unacceptable all the time of all the job losses
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and mill closures and that type of thing. There's different
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: parts to this forestry, reconciliation, land transfers. Nicole, does anything stand?
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  Speaker 1: It's also complicated, but does it fit into any kind
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of narrative or sort of thing that might impact the election?
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  Speaker 4: It's so deeply complicated. And like you said, there are
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: so many different sectors that this touches. We're talking about
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: the impact of DRIPA too. And we're kind of having
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  Speaker 4: a debate about the future of that. And so something
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  Speaker 4: like this is not helpful to that discussion at all.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: And also kind of just goes towards the BC Conservatives
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: narrative of like, you can't really trust David Eby on
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: the promises that he's made before.
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  Speaker 2: And then also what he's hiding from British Columbians.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: So obviously there's been kind of tit for tat on
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: that narrative from both camps aimed at each other. But
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  Speaker 4: this is, This is probably one that people won't dive
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: into the details of, but will give people a little
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: bit of pause when they get to the polls and
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: they're thinking about their NDP candidate and really David Eby
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: and whether or not he can be trusted to take
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: us forward.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Todd, it was interesting to me because the Council
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: of Forest Industries said the contracts that they have with
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: government for 10 years are on the balance sheet of
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: publicly traded companies as assets. And the minute you throw
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  Speaker 1: that into kind of chaos... or question it, it affects
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  Speaker 1: investment in the province. And you work in, you know,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the natural resource sector. So I'm sure you're familiar with that.
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  Speaker 1: But like, is government ripping up or stripping tenures on land,
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  Speaker 1: send an investment chill in any way, do you think?
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  Speaker 3: Well, this certainly can't be good. It's not going to
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: be received by the investment community in a positive way.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: And remember, it doesn't even have to necessarily be 100% true.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: If the perception is that government is taking these kinds
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: of steps and these kinds of actions, if the perception
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: is out there in the investment community, that is bad
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: in and of itself. That will chill. That will chill investment.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: I often look at these kinds of situations kind of
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: through two lenses. One is the policy itself. The more
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: I've kind of dove into this particular issue, I don't
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: like it at all. I just think it's a bad thing.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: a bad policy and a bad approach for a whole
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: bunch of reasons. But as important to the policy itself
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: is the process. And, you know, this perhaps is an
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: area of vulnerability for this government and for the premier
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: insofar as just this public perception that this government does
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: a lot of this kind of work behind closed doors
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: without bringing the public, bringing industry along, you know, for
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: the journey. And if reconciliation, you know, DRIPA or no DRIPA,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: if reconciliation is going to work long term, we all
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: have to be walking along that path together. And to
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: the extent that this government, you know, seems to, you know,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: do a lot of this implementation work and come up
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: with these kinds of arrangements behind closed doors and the
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: public finds out about it after it's, you know, kind
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: of done, just doesn't build public confidence in the government's approach.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: But unfortunately, it also undermines just the general commitment that
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: I think we all have to building, fostering reconciliation. Yeah.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it kind of does hit on that.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Those are the themes that the NDP are worried about
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: kind of sticking in the minds of voters. I'll just mention,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and we don't have to talk about this, but I
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: do want to mention for folks that there was a
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: second BC Conservative candidate who was ejected yesterday, Vancouver Strathcona's
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Jordan McIntosh, accused of posting online remarks about Hitler and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the Holocaust under a pseudonym online. I would love to
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: get through a provincial election without one Hitler controversy in
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the future. For God's sake, I don't... just ridiculous. Anyways,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: this guy, out he goes. He is the second conservative
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: candidate who is ejected. So they're now down to 91 candidates,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the NDP at 92, but the names are still on
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the ballot. So anyways, we don't need to talk about that,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: but I want to note it. Nicole, Todd, thank you
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: so much for being here. Really appreciate you being part
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: of the show.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: Thanks.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: This is so fun.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Good to see you, Todd. Good luck out there.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: You too, my friend. See you soon.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone for listening. We'll be back tomorrow with all
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the latest in BC politics here on Political Capital.