Latest / Booker Scott: Truth Be Told / Teklium CEO Jason Ho on A.I

Transcript

Teklium CEO Jason Ho on A.I · Booker Scott: Truth Be Told

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's 6 Eastern. It's 3 o'clock Pacific. We will draw
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: this city closer together. Coast to coast and around the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: world from the America Out Loud talk radio studios.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: We will replace the frigidity of rugged individualism with the
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: warmth of collectivism.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: It's time for The Truth Be Told with Booker Scott.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: So much is made out of artificial intelligence these days.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Where exactly is artificial intelligence? It's a great thing for
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: chat GPT. It's great for writing papers and stories and paragraphs.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: It's great for looking up things. But there's so much
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: more to it, and there's going to be a whole
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: lot more that we should pay attention to. Right now,
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: I'm going to bring an expert in in this field.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: His name is Jason Ho. He is the CEO of Techlium. Jason,
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: welcome to the program. Great to have you. Appreciate it.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me here.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're glad you're here. And, you know, I was
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: looking at your background, and your background is really impressive.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: You actually worked on semiconductors on F-35s, and that's what
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: your business is. And I found it very interesting that
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: you talk a lot about China. I see China as
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: America's largest adversary and really our only concern on the
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: world stage. We see how they steal all the intellectual property.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: And according to you and the information that you've put out,
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: you say that everything that we use that has a
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: semiconductor in it, which is almost everything we use, all
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  Speaker 3: of that comes from China. Am I right in that?
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  Speaker 4: I think correctly because Chinese, not only Chinese, a single
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  Speaker 4: group and related by blood, a family group, they control
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: almost the whole semiconductor industry. You talk about the CEOs
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: of NVIDIA, AMD, TSMC, most semiconductor companies in Taiwan, Huawei,
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: they are all related by blood.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And it would be great if we could get
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: some of that back here in America and we could
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: become the dominant nation in the world. And we see
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: that Elon Musk and Donald Trump, they brought up Stargate.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: What What do you think the objective is here and
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: how long is this going to take to develop?
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: I think I have a little bit different point of
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: view of AI because people focus on the AI.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: That's correct.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: But we also need to look at another thing. That's
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: the data associated to AI. And AI requires a large
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: amount of data.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Why is that?
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: And because using the AI, they can collect data freely
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: without any legal concerns. If people collecting data and definitely
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: there were legal consequences, you might file a lawsuit to
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: violate privacy. But what if AI does this? That's the
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: loophole for AI. So AI actually associated with very large
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: amount of data. 2023, they collected about 230 zettabytes. And
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: the last year, the estimated can reach to 400 zettabytes.
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  Speaker 4: One zettabyte is a 1 million terabytes. But can you
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  Speaker 4: imagine how much information they're taking from us?
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And they're getting it from just about everywhere, aren't they?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: And we're unaware of it. They're pulling all this information in.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: And even for this show, The Truth Be Told with
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Booker Scott, I check AI every once in a while.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I check grok. I check meta. And the reason why
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I do that, I want to make sure that I'm
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: presenting things the way that I want to. I don't
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: want to be too far right. I want to be fair,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: but I want to, you know, I want to be objective.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: And I use AI to do that because everything that
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: I say on this program and that you're saying right
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: now is collected. And we're completely unaware of the massive
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: data collection that's going on, aren't we?
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  Speaker 5: That's correct.
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  Speaker 4: Because first, AI collects data. But there's one more thing.
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  Speaker 4: It's very, very horrible because actually, when AI runs so perfectly,
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  Speaker 4: they need humans. human beings, yes, human beings, not computers,
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: to curate those data. The minimum estimations, they need about 100,000
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  Speaker 4: data experts or data architects. But there's another number from
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  Speaker 4: the one of FCC report, the Federal Communication Commission, the
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: report estimate about 30 to 40 million people actually are
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: curating those data collected for us.
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  Speaker 3: So without us knowing, our data is being collected and
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  Speaker 3: from that what happens what happens with that data where
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: does it go and how does artificial intelligence use.
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  Speaker 4: It so actually they use human beings to regulate those
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  Speaker 4: data people doesn't know that no people think you talk
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: to jdp you you talk to the and they ask
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: the some ai to create some beautiful an image for
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  Speaker 4: you you think that's air does this no air has
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  Speaker 4: no comprehension air has no knowledge that has no conscience
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  Speaker 4: actually There's a large amount of people working behind, try
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  Speaker 4: to dissect the data, they collect it and make it
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  Speaker 4: becoming a piece by piece, make it becoming meaningful. They
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  Speaker 4: can put together for something new. So actually they need
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  Speaker 4: a huge, large human power to do that. So usually
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  Speaker 4: if you hire a person to look at this data,
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  Speaker 4: it takes money, but in China it's free.
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  Speaker 3: So human beings are actually creating the pictures that we
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: make through artificial intelligence, right? If we ask any of
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: these services to create a picture of the sunset, that's
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  Speaker 3: actually a human being that is putting that together?
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  Speaker 5: That's correct.
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  Speaker 4: The AI industry doesn't want to tell you because the
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  Speaker 4: human beings, what we call the data experts and what
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  Speaker 4: we call the curators, is actually needed for analysis, to manage,
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: to categorize those data, to make it becoming piece-by-piece meaningful data.
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  Speaker 4: Why don't they put it together as a sentence or
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  Speaker 4: picture or something you want to ask?
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  Speaker 3: And you are telling us that those people that are
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: doing that, they're in China. And they're creating those images
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  Speaker 3: that we are viewing here. Because that's free.
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  Speaker 4: Because if you want to hire a person in America,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: you have to pay for it. To hire a person,
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  Speaker 4: even in India, you have to pay for it. But China,
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  Speaker 4: it does it for free.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: Because they can get all the information from us. Also,
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: they can control information. They can manipulate information.
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  Speaker 3: And so now when you consider all of our data
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: and the fact that we're always concerned who is getting
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: our data and where is it going, and we know
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  Speaker 3: that China has stolen and has tried to steal, and
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: obviously they've been successful on it. But now we know why,
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: don't we? One of the reasons why is because They
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: are actually creating the images. Is it human beings that
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: are writing for us the things that we ask them
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  Speaker 3: to write? Like, I will ask Grok on X to
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  Speaker 3: do this for me. And literally in seconds, I have
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  Speaker 3: an answer. How does that happen?
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  Speaker 4: It's not human beings. It's human beings to dissect data,
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: analyze those data, and put in piecewise. So they can
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: put a tag or put a coding. If I do
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  Speaker 4: the easy way, just like put a category numbers in
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: the very, very big libraries. When you ask something, they
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: try to check your category numbers. Once they hit, they
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  Speaker 4: will put something meaningful to you. So actually, there are
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: human being involved. You need to put everything in order.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, so they get our information. And from that, they
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: create something. And of course, when you're writing code, everything
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: is in numbers. It's not letters. So they write that,
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: and when something is tagged and somebody asks it to
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  Speaker 3: do something, then it grabs that tag and it throws
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  Speaker 3: something together for you. Is that simplifying the process? That's correct.
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  Speaker 4: And the actual process is quite sophisticated, and also there's
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: a lot of intelligence behind it, but that's correct.
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  Speaker 3: Jason, I'm pretty good at making difficult things easy because
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: it has to be easy for me to understand it.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: So I hear things, and then I spit it out
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: where it's easy to understand. So now let's get to
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: Elon Musk and Donald Trump and what they hope to do.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: What does that mean for America? And then what does
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: that mean for Americans?
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  Speaker 4: I always want to share knowledge and information to the,
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  Speaker 4: especially the people in the conservative field, have to notice
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  Speaker 4: that data is something quite evil. And because AI is
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  Speaker 4: driven by China, China is never kindly to drive something
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  Speaker 4: to benefit the world. China drives the AI because they
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  Speaker 4: can use that net to have the intention to collect
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  Speaker 4: data free from us. Also, when under the AI name,
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: they analyze to look at this data, look at the privacy,
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  Speaker 4: to know everything, every secret about us, even our hardworking
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: intelligence properties. And when everything under the AI becomes illegitimate.
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  Speaker 4: So this is something issue. But the one thing also
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  Speaker 4: difficult because data collection, we call the big data, this
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  Speaker 4: is a trillion dollars of business. Why is it so worthy?
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  Speaker 4: Why is the price so high? It's just like something
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  Speaker 4: so big, no one dare to touch. Just like Trump
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  Speaker 4: want to cut some funding and waste from the government,
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  Speaker 4: people be angry.
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  Speaker 3: The same thing.
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  Speaker 4: They don't allow people to talk about big data because
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  Speaker 4: the magnitude, the value for this business too big. So
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  Speaker 4: no one dare to touch it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost overwhelming in some ways for so many
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  Speaker 3: people to comprehend, I believe. And so when you're talking
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: and saying those things, To me, I equate that in
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: some ways to the southern border. If we are going
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  Speaker 3: to have a sovereign nation, if we want a sovereign nation,
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  Speaker 3: then we also need to have... our data and we
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  Speaker 3: need to have our own ability to create artificial intelligence
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  Speaker 3: as opposed to China. We would want to close or
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: build a wall between us and China when it comes
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  Speaker 3: to semiconductors and artificial intelligence, intellectual property. all of those
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  Speaker 3: things so that we also keep America sovereign in that way,
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  Speaker 3: wouldn't we?
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  Speaker 4: So the AI actually breaks data sovereignty because AI can
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  Speaker 4: collect whatever you do, legally, illegally, like you design the
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: beautiful engineering device or like you write a beautiful poem
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  Speaker 4: or make a beautiful song, a good book, because the
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  Speaker 4: human being in China, the Chinese, can look at your data,
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: dissect it, make useful pieces, and then can put together
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  Speaker 4: for something new. That's their work. So whatever you do,
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: and when you say, oh, I can get a free
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: image from the AI, I can get a beautiful song
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  Speaker 4: from AI, even can write a course from AI. But
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  Speaker 4: when you do that, remember, you are depriving the real
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: human's right and real human's effort.
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  Speaker 3: Before we started this conversation, you and I were speaking
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: off air, and you were talking about the legal problems
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: that exist with artificial intelligence and loopholes. Let's talk about
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: cars that drive themselves for a minute. They have a
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: car accident. Who's responsible? They run over somebody on a bicycle.
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  Speaker 3: Who is responsible?
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  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 4: By the current law, it looks like the trend is
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: because it's AI driving and the company off the hook.
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  Speaker 4: There's no problem. Then you have to just pay by yourself.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: Once you're hit by a car, autonomous driving, that's your
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: bad luck.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Has your responsibility. Yeah, there needs to be some legislation
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: around this, doesn't it? There needs to be more laws.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: We're kind of behind the times when it comes to
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: artificial intelligence and laws, I believe. And would you agree
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  Speaker 3: with that, Jason?
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: I talked to the lawmakers in Washington, D.C. in various, many,
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: many trips. It's difficult, very difficult. The reason is very simple,
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: money behind. And just I talk about the medical insurance
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: for insurer to be responsible for any decision to accept
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: or deny the medical claim, they have to face potential lawsuits.
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  Speaker 4: They're a huge liability. But if AI can do that,
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: then they're free off the hook. They can scrape off
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: all the legal costs because you cannot sue any insurer
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: anymore because when they deny it, AI denied it.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: It's not human beings.
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  Speaker 4: And why is money involved? Because they provide a huge
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: financial benefit to those big companies. It's very hard to
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: ask lawmakers, please think about our our humble citizens.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: It's difficult.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: We don't have money to lobby those lawmakers.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: And also, I think that maybe the lawmakers don't have
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: a grasp on this as well. When it comes to TikTok,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: we hear all about the TikTok ban. We saw Donald
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Trump a couple of weeks ago say that, well, we're
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: going to own it. He extended the time on the
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: TikTok ban. And he says, what about if we just
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: own 50% of it? It's worth a trillion dollars. That's
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: $ 500 billion for America.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: But.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: If the problem with TikTok is that they are getting
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: our data, why wouldn't we just go ahead and ban
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: it anyway, regardless of the money?
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: That's another jungle, because TikTok is very unique. It's different
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: than YouTube, because TikTok is actually actively recording our audio
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: and video when you use TikTok. They collect those video images,
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: audio images, for analysis to create something new and interesting.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: So there's nothing free for this world. And when China
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: pushed TikTok so much, and the problem is not only
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: the censorship, the problem is not who's behind. The problem
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: is even TikTok becoming an American company. But those data
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: are still sent into the big data database. And someone,
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: especially in China, because they are free, they will look
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: at those data, analyze those data.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: And as we started this conversation, we were talking about
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: semiconductors being in everything that we use and they are
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: in China. And of course, that's how they can ultimately
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: take our data and our information, isn't it?
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: That's exactly. This is a Chinese ambitious range of views.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: I wrote a book about it, and I call it
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: The Big Plot. Sorry, talk about my book here. And
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: I talk about China. Actually, they prepare modern day since 1978.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: They are leader Deng Xiaoping because I know people hate
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: China and people think China is evil, but I also
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: want to say one thing in balance because China can
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: be so influential and caught everything out of guard because
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: they planned this for a long time ago. We must
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: admire their evil and they can play things so far away.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: So 1978, they decided China must control two industries. communication
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: and a semiconductor. Even back to 1978, very few people
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: understand what is semiconductor, what is communication going to.
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  Speaker 3: Do in the future. Yeah, it's amazing how China has
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: such long-term plans. And unfortunately, America, we live in a
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: two-year election cycle, maybe four years, and then things change.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: And we're watching that right now, changing from Joe Biden
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: to Donald Trump. But you are talking about 1978 and
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: You look at the Belt and Road from China and
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: the things that they've done around the world with it.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: They have very long-term goals and they're very patient, aren't they,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: when it comes to these things?
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: The consensus is here we live under the face.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: We live a life.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: We believe in human value. China, they have no such consensus.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: They have no such concept. The only purpose for them
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: is how to control the world, how to manage the world,
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: how to manipulate the world. No matter this is a
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: in their lifetime or in their descendants' lifetime. And that's
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: the only purpose for the core of power. I didn't
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: mention the Chinese people, but I talk about the Chinese
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Communist Party.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. The CCP in China is the problem, not
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: the Chinese people. And of course, China is beautiful. I
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: know that it is. My parents took a cruise there
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: years ago and just talked about it and said it
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: was a very beautiful place. As we end this segment here,
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: what do we need to look for as we go
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: forward in the field of artificial intelligence?
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: To look into the data, the data AI took, and
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: that's the core, that's the problem. If there's no law,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: no regulations on how AI can take data away from us,
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: that will be problematic forever.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: And how concerned should American people be with this problem
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: and with their data being collected?
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: I think they should put the highest order. And actually,
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: it's quite serious because with those data collection, they can
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: do so many evil things, including the influence election forever. Yeah.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: And that's what we have seen them do. One more
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: question about TikTok. Since you're an expert on this, I
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: have always heard that in China, TikTok is used and
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: the children that use it, they use it for education
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: and that's what they are allowed to see. But in America,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: if you watch TikTok, which I don't, but I've seen
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: it and it's, it's just a mess. The things that,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: that people put on TikTok, the videos, it's, I guess
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: some of them are fun. They're, they're cute. And, but,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: but a lot of it's just terrible. And that's what
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: our youth is learning is from TikTok there. And it's
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: a terrible influence on them. Is China allowing that and
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: doing that on purpose?
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: Certainly not. But I have to mention the reason China
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: use TikTok on children because TikTok is only software. And
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: studying the children's eye, which is the viewer's eye, studying
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: their eye movement, studying their eye reactions, and studying their
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: facial reactions according to the video. China use that to
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: control the students to find out any outliers. When they
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: say how great the Communist Party is, if they see
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: something any and unhappy, angry about it, they will flag
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: that person, that young children. They need to correct them
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: from the beginning or bar them from doing anything important
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: for the society. So when TikTok becomes so important tool
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: to monitor the children, their mental state from the childhood,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: and if we allow the Americans to use TikTok, allowing
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: China to do the same thing on every American people,
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: can you imagine how worse it's.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Going to be? So Jason, let me ask you a
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: final question. Should Donald Trump ban TikTok? Should he let
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: that happen?
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: I want to say definitely should ban it because we
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: have something much greater. Because billionaires, our information, our invention
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: cannot go up to the White House, not go to
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: the elite, go to the powerful people. But I hope
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump can look at the middle-sized, small-sized companies, actually,
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: that are the greatest people in America. They contribute the most.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: They have so many wonderful technologies. They can easily replace
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: the T-top, probably in a very short time frame.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Jason Ho is his name. He is the CEO of Techlium. Jason,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for coming on the program and
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: sharing your knowledge on artificial intelligence. I really do appreciate it.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: I would love to have you back sometime.
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: More Truth Be Told with Booker Scott in minutes on
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: America Out Loud.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Someone asked me the other day, how do you even
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: get a sense of what's going to happen next? It's hard.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know that we can. The way the news moves.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like a live pulse on what the
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: public actually believes. And you can see trends before they
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: even happen and before they even make the mainstream news.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: For me, it's not about gambling. It's about understanding the
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: probabilities and where the momentum is shifting. If you like
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: or love the news like I do, maybe you're a
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: news junkie, but you want to take a little deeper
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: look at what people really think, go to Polymarket. It's
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: a fascinating tool. Polymarket.com. Welcome back to the program. Don't forget,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: coming up tonight at 9 o'clock, it is After Dark
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: with Robin Andrew. Before that, the National Security Hour and
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: In just a few minutes at 7 o'clock Eastern, 4
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: o'clock Pacific, it is Unleashed, the political news hour. I'm
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Booker Scott. This is The Truth Be Told. Glad to
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: have you. Great to have you tonight. You know, through
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: America's history, we've had a lot of different political parties.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Right now, we have two parties. We have the Republicans
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: and the Democrats. And nobody, I think, is happy with
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: either one of them. I know that I'm not. And
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: along the way, we've had the Libertarian Party. We've had
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: the Green Party. And both of them really tried to
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: get their own candidates and they have tried to become
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: their own party. Along the way, there's been the Tea
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Party that really just fits into the Republican Party and
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: tries to steer them in certain directions and have candidates
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: work for them underneath the Republican apparatus. Well, we have
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: a new party that has emerged over the last couple
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: of years. and right now we're going to bring in
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: one of the people that founded that party. It's called
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: We The People, and his name is Levi Leatherberry. Levi,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: welcome to the program. Glad to have you.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: So what gives you the motivation to do this? Why
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: do you think you can make a difference with We
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: The People?
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: So basically I've actually worked for a lot of the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: other third parties. Some of the ones that you mentioned
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: and even some that you didn't, like the Ford Party,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: No Labels, all these other parties. And so I got
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: hands-on experience with the ballot all over the country, and
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I realized how expensive it was, how crazy expensive it is.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: You know, Democrats and Republicans, when they run candidates, they
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: don't often have to deal with ballot issues at all.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: So there's two races that an independent has to run.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: They have to run a ballot race, and then they
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: have to run just the normal race. So usually about 85%,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: 95% of your money is eaten up by that ballot race.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: So it makes it so hard for new ideas and
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: new candidates to get in, whether it's left or right
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: or center.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Levi, let me jump in real quick, because you brought
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: up independents, and I think that's really what you guys
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: are trying to do here is lift the voices of independents,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: not Democrats. a Republican, not a Democrat. You don't want
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: to find somebody to, you know, force into your shoe
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: and your thoughts, but you're really trying to take independence,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: whether it's at the local level or state level, whatever
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: that may be. And you're trying to help them maybe
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: aggregate this group of independents because right now they're completely
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: on their own and where I'm wrong, please correct me.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: But it seems like maybe that's your idea. It's not
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: necessarily to start a new party, but really just give
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: the voice to independents?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: We definitely focus, the majority will be independents who we
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: work with, but we also work with Democrats and Republicans
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: who get kicked out of the primaries. So any of
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: the real reform candidates, whether if they're Republicans, they have
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: new ideas, they're passionate, they actually want to drain the swamp,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: they usually get kicked out of the primaries and they
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: never get a chance to run. Usually it's the guy who,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: behind closed doors, makes an agreement to take money from
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: the problem, whether it's housing or health care or wars.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: And so they make that agreement, and then that's why
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: they get to the primaries. A lot of people don't
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: know in America that primaries are hand-selected. So you vote,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: and you get to do all these voting, but actually
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: the party leaders at the state level can control that
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: in 30,000-plus races on average per state. And so they
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: can manipulate that to the outcomes they want from a
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: governor down the school board. And that's why you get
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the same kind of candidates from these parties. And it
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: never changes because they can manipulate that easily with bylaws
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: at the party level. And so we just try to
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: work with anybody who wants to make change. And the
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: bulk of that will be independent speech in America now
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: over the last few decades. It's grown more and more
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: independent as people have become disillusioned with the two-party system,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: and they just want reform. They just want things to work.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: They're not particularly ideological. They just go, hey, I see
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: in my town we're not fixing roads. We're not funding
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: the schools. We're not– you know, getting healthcare cheaper, you know?
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And so we're for those people who just want to
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: do reform and we'll work with anybody. And we're not ideological.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: We're based on doing a top five issues of every
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: voter group that you work for. So if you run
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: for a district, you just ask the people in that district,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: what are their biggest issues? And that's what you run on.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: So even if let's Levi, if you have someone that
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: works on the far left fringe of really what's taking
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: over the Democrat Party right now. They don't make it
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: through the primary. They're not on the ballot. They get
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: kicked out, as you were talking about. Can they come
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: to you, or is there absolutely some type of ideology?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: You said there is no ideology. We work with anybody.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Would you work with that person, or would you also
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: work with somebody on the far right fringe? Who is
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: it exactly that you work with?
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, we do have the legal structures of America,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: so the Constitution is important to us and all the
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: things in it. And upholding the values of states being
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: the laboratories of democracy. But cities can also be the
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: laboratory of democracy. And we have ballot access in some
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: of the most progressive areas of the country, Seattle, Portland, Oregon,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: and Washington. We already have those in some of our
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: earliest states that we have ballot access in. So we
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: usually have to deal with this issue a lot. And
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: it turns out we're more competitive in those cities because
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: if you're like a Republican candidate or a more conservative candidate,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: it's really hard to run as a Republican in Portland
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: to make reforms on their crazy policies, which have been
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: there for decades and decades and decades, and nothing changes.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: It gets worse and worse and worse. So third parties
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: and independents can get in there, and they can pull
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: back on the craziness and actually have practical– you know,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: real solutions that the people who aren't at the local
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: level who are desperate for change, they just can't go
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: all the way Republican just because of their identity, you know,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: and their family and their friends, and they'll pay big
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: social costs. Whereas if they're independent, they can do it,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: and they won't get, like, disowned by their family. Or
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: disowned by their community or the same peer pressure.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: That's the world that we're living in.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: It's really big competitive.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the world we're living in today.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the funny thing is, And the thing is,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: we focus on anti-corruption as our main, like, you know,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: the thing that connects everybody. Even these far-left candidates, like
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: in Portland or something, they're very useful when fighting against
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the Democrats because they'll go after the money. And they'll
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: go after all the candidates and they'll go, hey, you're
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: not funding our schools, you're not funding our stuff. So
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: even if we don't agree with them on everything, being decentralized,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: you know, their views will be limited to, like, a
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: neighborhood in Portland. It's not going to be at the
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: state level in Oregon, which has a lot of very
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: conservative people in the eastern parts of the state who
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: are very red. And so by actually representing the people,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: you naturally get all the extreme views out. Because what
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: ends up happening is you go, okay, maybe in some
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: small city in rural Oregon near Redmender Bend, they will
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: want very conservative values. And that's what the people want.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: And it actually works at that level if you implement
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: those policies. Or in Portland, if you have some crazier,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: really far, more radical candidate, maybe in a 10-block radius,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: that works. But guess what? All that stuff, when you
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: come up to the state level, nobody's voting for that stuff.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: So by just asking people what they want, you naturally
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: moderate extreme views, and you focus on the money and
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the corruption and the fact that we're not fixing anything
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: and that things are broken on purpose. This is profitable
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: for hospitals to be broken. It's profitable for roads. For
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: every road you build, you pay for seven more. Rural
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Oregon costs more than downtown Paris, and they have the
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: biggest labor unions in the world. They shut down cities.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: And they're cheaper. They're way cheaper than our roads. Why?
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Because the insane level of graft on every project in America,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: there's graft. And it's because the Republicans and the Democrats
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: are older than cars. So when the cars came out,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: they got a piece of that action by regulating them
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: and giving kickbacks to their relatives on the contracts, the
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: federal contracts. And so, you know, whatever, it's electricity, they
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: get kickbacks on that to their families. members. So no
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: matter what it is, no matter what topic it is,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: the money is just hemorrhaging out. And that's an existential
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: crisis to our country, because as you probably well know,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: In 8, 10, 15 years, the debt will surpass us
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: to the point we can't catch up. We can't pay
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: for things anymore.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're at $ 38 trillion.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so if we don't go after the money now,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: we can't keep things together in 10 years. So that's
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: why anti-corruption is so important and not fighting over ideological,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: social issues, which other parties can do that. If they
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: want to go fight about that stuff, they can go
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: somewhere else. But they actually want to get stuff done
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: and get in there at the local level and the
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: state level and get on those budgets and change the
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: money so that healthcare is cheaper, so that housing is cheaper,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: so that roads are cheaper by cutting out these insane,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: you know, paying 800 times what it costs. Then, yeah, like,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: so that's how we unify people. We just focus on
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: action and anti-corruption. And then we allow people to disagree.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: His name is Levi Leatherberry. The name of the party
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: is We the People. They claim to be a minimalist
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: party and also decentralized. You can hear Levi say both
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: of those things. They're not necessarily an ideology. And Levi,
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: I have to say, I hear a very strong libertarian
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: streak coming out in you when you say it doesn't
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: matter that, you know, if you're a Democrat or a Republican,
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: it really doesn't matter. What do you want at home,
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: where you live? Because I think that's what America is,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: that sometimes we forget. We get caught up in the
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: ideology of MAGA or the left, and we forget that
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: as a republic, and sometimes I see this on the
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: MAGA side, if we truly are a republic, then we
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: should live the way we want to live closest to
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: where we live, where we live. And to do that,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: we have to get involved locally in the politics. And
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: the only way to do that is to get active,
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: be a part of it. And then when you try
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: to do that, you bump into the apparatus that is
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: the Republican and the Democrat party. What you're trying to
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: do is bust through that. How high up do you
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: want to go in state politics? Because I think what
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: you're trying to do can work in smaller local races.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: But it may have a hard time as you work
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: your way up into state government and then obviously into
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: national government because it takes so much money. You've talked
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: a lot about money. What is your plan there?
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: We do both. We just let people do what they
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: want to do. So we have a governor candidate right
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: now in New York. They have a matching fund, and
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: the governor races aren't as competitive because the Democrats always win.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And so it's like a six-to-one matching thing. So if
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: they get $ 500K, they get $ 3 million. match. And so
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: there's all these states where you can, for smaller amounts
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: of money, be competitive just because, you know, over this
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: is misnomer in America that we, we challenge races. We don't,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: we have some of the lowest in the world of
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: challenging leadership. So about 70 plus percent, 70 to 80%
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: of all races in America have no challenger. There's zero,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: you're guaranteed the job, a hundred percent guaranteed the job. controlling,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: you know, trillions of dollars every year at the local
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: and state level. They spend more than the federal government does.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: So we talk about the federal government debt and spending,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: which is crazy, but it's even crazier at the state
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: and local level where all those funds actually go. And
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: then they get dispersed to roles where nobody gets challenged
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: for generations. Usually it's the father is the biggest indicator
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: if that person's going to hold that office. They just
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: inherit it, right? So it's like a kingdom. They've inherited it.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: and they inherit billions and billions of dollars, like, for example,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: a water board in L.A. So we'll run at a
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: governor level if it's a more competitive race, or at
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: least if that's somebody who's really passionate, like Larry Sharp
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: in New York. He wants to raise the issues at
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: that level and challenge some of the status quo issues.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: That's great, and he's already doing that, and that's amazing.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Or in the water boards in L.A., they have $ 2 billion,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: you know, with no oversight, really. And so you can
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: run these races where you control billions of dollars with
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: sub-100 votes, so 50 votes, 70 votes. You go around two,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: three blocks, and you're running people who can control enormous budget.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: So if we run, in Oregon alone, there's over about 20,000
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: races we can run people. And so if we get
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: people in at 2% to 5% of those, we can
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: bankrupt the major parties because The good thing about the
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: corruption in America is it's very centralized, and they've never
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: been challenged for any living generation. So libertarians and greens,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: they do not challenge in the vast majority of races.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Libertarians tend to run where it benefits the Republicans. Greens
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: run where it tends to benefit the Democrats. So the
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: vast majority are untouched. So the budgets are untouched. The
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: money's untouched. Nothing changes if the money doesn't change. So
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: by running these races, if we get to 5% to
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: 10% of races in America, there's so many local races
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: that it bankrupts the national parties. Just by making them
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: pay for 100 times, 200 times, 1,000 times more than
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: they're used to, and their donor base cannot sustain that,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: they're used to having a very, very small percentage of
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: races where they put all their money. So by spreading
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: it out, you make it very, very hard for them
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: to cover those, and they're going to have to leave
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: those people exposed. And then, you know, when you play
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: favorites in a party, there's consequences. So we're going to say,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: who's really MAGA? Who's really MAGA? Like, if you really
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: believe in Drain the Swamp, okay, run with it. We'll
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: run you at the local level, and it's free. And
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: then you can actually get your hands on that money
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: and drain the swamp and actually cut out the people
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: who are wasting money. Like, if you're really on the
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: left and you say you want to fix things for
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: the next generation, all this progressive issues where you want
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: to make health care cheaper, okay, get into the state.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: hospital system that regulates that money and cut the money
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: down so it's more affordable, so that Big Pharma isn't
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: draining Americans of their life savings every time we get
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: an injury. So if people walk the talk and what
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: they preach, these ideas of helping Americans, and we never
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: see things change, it's because the money never changes. And
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: so that's why we're so laser-focused on anti-corruption. And we
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: will run at any level, at any scale, because it
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: costs us the same. So if we get on a
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Zoom call... With a couple water boards through California and
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: the West Coast, we're controlling billions of dollars, and we
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: can coordinate between each other. And we don't need oversight.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: We don't need to go through all these red tape
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: and loopholes that the Democrats and Republicans have to, because
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: they have to go all the way back to D.C.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: and all the way down the ladder and all the
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: way up the ladder. So that's 20 or 12 different
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: levels of approval in red tape. We can just directly
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: get on a Zoom call and coordinate that. money and
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: that policy. So we can cut through all those layers.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: If someone is listening to this right now and they
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: have an interest in joining with you, partnering with you
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: to try to get on a local school board or
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: anything else locally, how would they do that? I know
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: you have a website. I want you to tell everybody
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: what that is. Tell everyone what that process is. There
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: may be someone listening right now that says, hey, I
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: want to do this. How do I join? We the people,
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: what's the process and what.
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: Do we do?
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. We have a candidate page on our national
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: website where you go to. It's WTPnational.com. And on Twitter,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: we're WTPnational, at WTPnational. And that should be in either places.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Message us or reach out. You know, there's a little
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: chat that pops up. There's a candidate form under the
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: candidate section right on the front page of the website.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: And I would definitely encourage you to run your friends,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: your family, members of the community that you think are
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: honorable or ethical, who you think would be good leaders.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Recommend them or talk to them and have them reach
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: out to us. These are the people. Ordinary Americans, unless
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: we get those people into power where they control the
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: money and can actually make our lives tangibly better, nothing
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: will change. They'll just keep going and going because everything
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: is broken because it benefits the current monopoly.
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: You know, whether it's electricity or, you know, wars or
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: all these things, you know. And so, yeah, absolutely, we'll
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: run anybody as long as, you know, you take the
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: anti-corruption pledge, but you're not going to take money from
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: the position to do the opposite of what the position is, right? Like,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: you're not going to take money from Big Pharma when
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: you're running, you know, on the healthcare thing, right? You're
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: not going to take money from the military industrial complex
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: when you're trying to run a thing that's regulating it. Like,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Usually the person who bribes you is the subject of
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: the thing you regulate. So as long as you take
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: money from the people and ordinary people and you're not
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: going to do the opposite of what you say, which
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: is the most common thing in politics, and we will
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: fire you if you do that. If you're corrupt, our
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: members at the local level can fire people. So the
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: county level, they will vote for you in and that's it.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: The state, you don't have to go to the state
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: or the national. Your local boards can hire you or
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: fire you, give you ballot access. So it's much faster
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: and much easier to run for office with us because
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: you don't have to go through anybody. You just go
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: to your local group. But if you betray them and
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: do the opposite of what you promised on your campaign,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: they won't run you again. And so that's how we
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: get good quality people over time is we have consequences
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: for politicians who do the opposite of what they say
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: they're going to do.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: So whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, it really
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter if you are, we, the people, and that's
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: the name of this political party. I wouldn't even say
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: it's a political party. I would say that it's a
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: resource for everyday American people. If you want to get
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: involved and make a difference, and I hear so many
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: people say that all the time, I want to do something,
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: I want to make a difference. Here's your opportunity. We
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: the people. It is a political party. And his name
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: is Levi Leatherberry. The website is WTPnational.com. Would you go there?
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Would you check it out? If you have a family
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: member or a friend that you think should be running,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: maybe they've talked about it. show them this website. And Levi,
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: thank you very much for joining the program tonight. I
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: really do appreciate it. Great to meet you. And please
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: come back and let's talk about some of the successes
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: and some of the people that you have running as
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: we get closer to some of these races. I'd love
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: to do that. Levi, thank you so much.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: We're going to bring in a guest now, someone that
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: is working for Tunnel to Towers. And we're going to
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: find out about Tunnels to Towers here in a few minutes.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: But first, let me introduce you to a New Yorker,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: Mary Ann Labella. She and I have been friends for years.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: Mary Ann, welcome to the program.
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Booker. I appreciate it. And thank you for
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: having me on your platform.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And one thing that I think is interesting that
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: you and I kind of share, and a lot of
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: people don't know this about me either, but I had
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: worked in corporate media, Cumulus Media, iHeartRadio. It got gone
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: in different markets, Tampa Bay, Orlando, Nashville, a lot of
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: different places working in radio. in media, corporate media. And
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: I kind of got to a point where, for me,
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: my convictions on the country and other things outweighed my
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: ability and my want to in the corporate world. So
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: here I am on America Out Loud Talk Radio with
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: you right now, and you sort of have that same journey.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: Your convictions and your mission overtook your corporate world to
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: lead you to Tunnels to Towers. So let's start the
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: conversation there, and then we'll get to the other stuff later.
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: Well, thank you, Booker, and thank you for acknowledging that. Yes, actually,
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: it was kind of a spiritual journey, more so than
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: anything else.
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: Like we discussed, I was working in.
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: The corporate world, making six figures, commuting into the city
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: every day, two hours each way, And the atmosphere was
• 42:22
  Speaker 6: one that I felt like was a reality if you
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: wanted to make that kind of money. As I got older,
• 42:30
  Speaker 6: I felt that my priorities were changing. I was getting
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: closer to God. I was getting more spiritual. And I
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: felt that my life was not in the right direction.
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: And I really had to reflect. on whether that was
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: for me and how I wanted to kind of end
• 42:54
  Speaker 6: my life. I mean, is this what I want? Is
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: this the path I want in my 50s? And I said,
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: absolutely not. The world is crumbling around us, as you mentioned.
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: What can I do? I mean, we go on Twitter
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: every day.
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: We tweet and tweet. I'm a poll watcher. I'm in
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: there in the weeds. But I feel like, you know,
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: it's not enough. And I had this opportunity. Actually, I
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: was recommended to Tunnels to Towers. And I couldn't be happier.
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: I'm making at.
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: Least $ 100, 000 less.
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: Than I was making.
• 43:36
  Speaker 6: And I wouldn't trade it for the world. Tunnels to
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: Towers is a great organization. They treat their people.
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: Tremendously.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Well, let's hang on to the Tunnels of Towers in
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: a few minutes because I want to dig down a
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: little bit deeper into the decision-making process to get you there,
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: because it's not easy. And I know there are people
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: probably listening right now that maybe they are in the
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: same type of situation that you and I both were in,
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: which we were working for corporate companies, very large companies.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: For me, I was working for the largest media company
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: in the country in reach, meaning that iHeartRadio reaches about
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: 250 million Americans every month. So, you know, I, too,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: took a sacrifice in doing what I'm doing financially. But yet,
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: for me, I just couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: I got to a point where I'm not going to
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: make these liberal corporations another dime, not one more dime.
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: Exactly.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: And did you get there, too?
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: I was so sick of... really working like a dog.
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: They weren't loyal.
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: They didn't care about you anymore. The whole corporate world
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: is different now.
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: I started when I came out of college. I graduated
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: from Pace and I went straight to J.P.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Morgan.
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: J.P.
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: Morgan was a heaven to work for. It was only
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: 250 people. They treated you great. Then it just expanded
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: and it just got worse and worse. But But come
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: to your point about changing your perspective about life.
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: This is important.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: You have a.
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: Family to worry about financially. I don't. So your sacrifice
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: was much more than mine.
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: You know, like I didn't have anybody to worry about.
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: Nobody depends on me financially. So you can see across
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: the spectrum of, you know, where you are in life.
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: Anybody can make this decision. And really, money's not everything.
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, you can.
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: Obviously right now it kind of is because everything is
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: so expensive.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 45:51
  Speaker 6: But when you leave at the end of the day.
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: You go out of there with a smile on your
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: face knowing maybe you changed one person's life. And at
• 46:00
  Speaker 6: Tunnels to Towers, let me just speak a little bit
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: about that.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go. Let's talk about Tunnels to Towers.
• 46:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't want to talk too much about it
• 46:08
  Speaker 6: because I don't know how much I can say. But a.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: Little bit about the organization real quick. I'll fill in
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: some blanks.
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: They started out, Mr. Siller, he lost his brother.
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: And he started this organization, Tunnels to Towers. And they
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: were helping pay the mortgages of first responders who passed
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: on the job. Now they kind of morphed into or
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: expanded into veterans and they're helping now veterans build. They're
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: building smart homes for veterans who come back maybe with
• 46:42
  Speaker 6: one leg or one arm. I mean, they really do
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: a lot. And let me just say, Booker, that they
• 46:48
  Speaker 6: don't solicit at all. And the phone is constantly ringing
• 46:52
  Speaker 6: of people who want to help. So this you everybody
• 46:55
  Speaker 6: knows somebody who's in.
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: Law enforcement in one way or another.
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: For any donation or anything that they do, they really
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: do a lot for the veterans and the first responders.
• 47:09
  Speaker 6: And I know that in education as well, they started
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: going into schools to teach about 9-11 because, of course,
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: we don't want to forget. And it really is.
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: A place where you know, you feel good. I feel great.
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: I am like the person that I was born to be. I, I'm.
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: Happiest I've ever been, you know, 56 years old. So
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: it took a long time coming, but you know, in.
• 47:37
  Speaker 6: Life, people have to make hard decisions and, and this,
• 47:41
  Speaker 6: this administration and this economy and everything, the crime. I mean,
• 47:47
  Speaker 6: now is the time really to reflect and, and see
• 47:51
  Speaker 6: how bad it is and see how you can help
• 47:53
  Speaker 6: because it's going to take all of us to do that.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: A couple of things about Tunnels to Towers Foundation and
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: also the Wounded Warriors is another one of those. They
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: do great work. And I know you are familiar with
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: both of those organizations. And what a relief it is
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: for those people that have lost that breadwinner to have
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: a mortgage paid for. When you talk about a spiritual journey,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: it's so much easier for a sport spiritual journey. If
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: you don't have that financial crush on you. And if
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: you can imagine being a single mom of three or
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: four kids, maybe two or one, whatever that is. And
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden the main breadwinner is no longer
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: able to do that. It is no longer present there.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: What a relief it is to have a paid for
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: mortgage that you don't have to, you don't have to
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: write that check month after month. And yeah, That allows
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: the mom or the dad, I don't want to just
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: say the mom, but it allows that single.
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: And the children.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and mainly the children for their spiritual welfare and
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: mostly their future, their education and that security that you get.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: And that's both Tunnels to Towers and Wounded Warrior. We're
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: talking to Mary Ann Labella from New York who happens
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: to work for Tunnels to Towers. And really talking also
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: about her spiritual journey, because she kind of got to
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: a point in life where she wanted to make a difference.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: And that's one thing that I do on this show
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: from time to time. I'll spotlight one person that's made
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: a difference, made the choice to make a difference because
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: all great ideas come from really one person. There's a
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: spark in a head that says, I want to do
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: this and then something comes from it. We see it everywhere,
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: all over us, all over the place every day. I'm
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: glad to have Mary Ann here. A little bit about
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: that spiritual journey. It's a hard, difficult decision to say, okay,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: I'm going to sacrifice financially to do this, but it
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: means so much more now to you, and you get
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: so much more fulfillment in your life than you ever
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: did with that large six-figure income, don't you?
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's also very emotional, Booker.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: One thing that we seem to forget is the church,
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: if you happen to be a Christian, the church is
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: not a building, and it's not a steeple, but the
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: church is the people, and we are to be the workers,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: the hands and the feet of Jesus as we come
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: into this Easter weekend. That's really as simple as the
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: church is. I happen to be one that goes to
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: a building to fellowship with other Christians weekly, a couple
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: of times a week. But I need that. But I
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: think it's lost on so many people that really that
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: is what church is, the body of Christ, the hands
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: and the feet. And that's what you're describing. Let's be
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: that person. Let's be that Christian.
• 50:59
  Speaker 5: Let's do the work. We have to wake up.
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: You know, years ago, a Christian would get up on Sunday,
• 51:07
  Speaker 6: get dressed, go to church or whatever and go visit family.
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: It's not there's no foundation anymore in the family.
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: And I think it's because of the technology, obviously, the phones.
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: But I think parents are very. I mean, not every parent.
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: But I think their focus is on themselves now. They'll
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: just buy their kid whatever they need. And I mean,
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: sometimes I... A lot of the times I read some
• 51:36
  Speaker 5: of these stories and I'm like, where is the parents?
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: Take, for example, some of those people who are beating
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: up other people like, you know, like animals.
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: Like, where is your mother and father? Don't they see
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: you online and acting like that? I mean, it's crazy.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: But, you know, when you.
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: when you think about it and you can really, uh,
• 51:59
  Speaker 6: it's a big decision to make, obviously.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: Um, but anyway, I had, uh, I had a pastor
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: on the show Friday night and he said this toward
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: the end of our conversation that in the end, all
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: that's going to matter. And he's been a pastor for
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: 40 years and he said it this way. It doesn't
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: really matter what you do in your life. It comes
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: down to three things. It comes down to family, friends
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: and faith. And the decision that you made to give
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: up the money to do something you're passionate about falls
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: right in line with that family, faith and friends. And
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: that's the most important thing. You talked about getting older
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: and perspective changes and we're about the same age. So
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: I understand exactly what you're talking about. Perspective does change
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: and you've made a leap and I'm thankful for knowing
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: you and grateful for that. And thank you for coming on. Please, again,
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: tell everyone the Tunnels of Tower website if you can
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: do that. And I really just appreciate you spending the
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: time here.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 53:09
  Speaker 6: It's tunneltotowers.org. And you can get in contact with me
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: on Twitter. My handle is at MAGA, M-A-G-A, 2-A writes, R-I-G-H-T-S.
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: And thank you so much, Booker, for allowing me to
• 53:24
  Speaker 6: come on your great platform and just tell my story.
• 53:27
  Speaker 6: And hopefully someone out there hears it and kind of
• 53:31
  Speaker 6: feels the same way.
• 53:32
  Speaker 5: And I appreciate you. God bless you, Booker.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: There is only one truth. You've been listening to The
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Truth Be Told with Booker Scott on America Out Loud.