Latest / Topeka Bible Church Audio Archive / October 24, 2018 | Men Of Success - Fall 2018: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People - Session 7

Transcript

October 24, 2018 | Men Of Success - Fall 2018: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People - Session 7 · Topeka Bible Church Audio Archive

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, hey, hey, how are you guys doing?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, Topeka.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, guys.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where'd you go?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: You just barely got back.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: From somewhere.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Where have you been?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: At our house.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: We went pretty far for vacation.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we ended doing a staycation this time.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: A good solid six days.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was nice.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Did you really?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: We planned, so the original plan was we were going to go to Chicago for a few days, but our daughter ended up getting an ear infection, and we decided ear infection plus cold plus two days of rain being in Chicago.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are we going to do?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: We'll just stay here.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was great.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: How's Gabby doing within those migraines getting any better?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: It just depends on the week.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we just take it day by day.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's good to have you.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm heading to uh Haiti on Friday morning.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Steinloggy backed out of the trip.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's such a wuss.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: But we have good news.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: The Chiefs did a good job on Sunday.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: They spanked the Bengals big time.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I saw about so I don't watch too many football games now, but I saw about three minutes of this game.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the Chiefs scored like 14 points in those three minutes.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just decided there's there's no point to watch this anymore.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: See, those of us who stunk at football, we love the stuff.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Those of you who are like pros, you don't care anymore.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about all that.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I like watching good games.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I like watching when the teams are either it's either a good team versus a good team, or it's a bad team versus a bad team.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: But a good team versus a bad team, it doesn't interest me as much.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's not as close to a game.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So if this was 78-10, I would have watched every second.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And Mahomes is like, they say he's the best ever now, is that right?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's he's the best of all time.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's the goat.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's the greatest of all time.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is he like 16?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's past Brady.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's 16 and a half years old.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:25
  unknown: I don't know.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So hey, let's look at this book.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: We got a couple more weeks this week and then two more after that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll be done for the fall semester.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: The seven is that the book we're doing.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, hey, by the way, so as I was reading this chapter, I was thinking, this is really getting direct and simple about a topic that I think we all feel like we know called listening.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it reminded me of this picture that I came across about how we guys need specific guidance at times.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do not use.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I just I thought I saw this picture.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: It may take you a while, it's early in the morning, but some of us need direct guidance.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do not pee in that hole.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just in case.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, that was that was my weak attempt at humor.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so let's review these habits.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's see.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing the first part, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: You got it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Habit number one, pre be proactive.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're in charge of your life.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: You can create change.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody remember habit number two?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't either.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Begin with the end in mind.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Your first creation's mental, so picture the changes you want, make a plan.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Habit three.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Your second creation is physical, so work the plan.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: First things first.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's most important?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Habit number four was think when win.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was last week.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Both of us have to come out on top, or we don't do the deal.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And just uh, this is too small to see clearly, but it's in your book all over the place.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is Covey's sort of wheel.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: You start at the bottom with dependence.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: These are young people growing up in a home and they're dependent on their parents.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then hopefully you grow up with a proactive end in mind.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: First things first, you get victory over your own self.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: You become self-disciplined, you move up to independence, you solve your character problem.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is what sets this book apart from the others, like how to win friends and influence people.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: This starts with inner character and says work inside out.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're on the outside, four, five, and six, going public, moving toward interdependence.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So last week, habit number five, seek first to understand, or no, that's today.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Seek first to understand, then to be understood.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what he says.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you've read this chapter, you may remember these opening paragraphs.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Communication is the most important skill in life.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: But consider this.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've spent years learning to read and write, years learning how to speak, but what about listening?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: What training or education have you had that enables you to listen so that you really deeply understand another human being from that individual's own frame of reference?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to interact effectively with me, to influence me, your spouse, your child, your neighbor, your boss, your coworker, your friend, you must first understand me.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So he gives us in the first few pages five levels of listening.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: The bottom level of listening is ignoring, making no effect at all to listen.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Huh?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you say something?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Second is pretend listen.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly, you get there.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So acting as if you're listening, you know, nodding occasionally, your wife, you know, the game's going, the chiefs are winning, and so forth.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: She comes in and, you know, this and then you do.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Just pretending.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're going, yes, honey.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: The third level, as you're getting a little better, is selective listening.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you tune in to those parts that you like, that you're interested in.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, and this is where he drops in his famous line.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of Covey's most famous quotes that you see everywhere.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Most people do not listen with the intent to understand, they listen with the intent to reply.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: You ever talk with somebody like that?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you know they're just desperate for you to take a breath so that they can speak, you know.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it's this battle.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're just trying to get through your idea, you know, before um.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So my other joke fell so flat, I'm not gonna give this one.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, how are you?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I will.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh so this goes like this.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was in the public toilets and I just sat down.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've heard this.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Voice from the next cubicle said, Hi, how are you?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Embarrassed.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I'm doing fine.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: The voice said, So, what are you up to?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: I said, just doing the same thing as you sitting here from next door.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can I come over?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, I'm rather busy right now.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then the voice said, Listen, I'll have to call you back.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's an idiot next door answering all my questions.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So moral of the story is listen a little more carefully.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: The phone on the toilet.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So some verses.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: The wise man seeks understanding, the fool seeks to air his own opinion.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Great little Calvin and Hobbes excerpt on that.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Calvin explaining to Hobbes when a person pauses in mid-sentence to choose a word, that's the best time to jump in and change the subject.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an interception in football.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: You grab the other guy's idea and run the opposite way with it.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Proverbs 18, 13, one more verse before I turn it over to you, coach, to answer before listening.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: That is folly and shame.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: 1813.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh why don't you take us through the five levels of listening and yeah, so these these five levels I think are really interesting.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, these We only hit the first three, though.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: We still have two more.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So there's the ignoring, the pretending, the selective, talked about those.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then the the attentive listening.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is the one where you actually are giving them your focus.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're giving the other person your attention, you're paying attention to the words that they're speaking, but not necessarily the emotion that they're speaking with.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Not not the full essence of what they're trying to convey because you are only focused on their words.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then he says the fifth level, the thing is, but you're comparing, I think partly because you're you're always going, okay, yeah, I experienced that.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, that happened in my life.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're still thinking to reply.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's and that's if you don't know people who are itching to reply all the time, then then then you're that person.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's just how it works.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know because I contend to be that person most of the time.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's really challenging for me to dive into this level five.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're lying through your teeth.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: You are not that person.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, I really am.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: With your wife, maybe.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but not with me.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Empathetic listening.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So this is where we're listening with our heart, we're listening with our mind, we're listening to the words that they're saying, but we're also listening to their body language.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're listening to the to the full essence, to the character of what they're trying to say.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we're in this level five of empathetic listening, we're not trying to formulate a response, we're not trying to figure out, okay, why why are they speaking like this?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe what's the root cause, and how can I fix it?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: What can I do?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're not thinking of all of those things.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: We are just seeking to understand the other person from their own viewpoint and not from our own viewpoint.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to read this out of the book because I think it's it's a terrific story.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's about maybe a paragraph and a half.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So he says, Covey's talking about a father who came to him and had a problem with his kid, and he says, it's not up on the screen.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: But a father once told me, I can't understand my kid.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: He just won't listen to me at all.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let me restate what you just said, I replied.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: You don't understand your son because he won't listen to you?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's right, he replied.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let me try again, I said.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: You don't understand your son because he won't listen to you.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I said, he said impatiently.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that to understand another person, you needed to listen to him, I suggested.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he said.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: There was a long pause.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he said again, and the light began to dawn.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, but but I do understand him.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know what he's going through.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I went through the same thing myself.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I don't understand why he won't listen to me.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: This man didn't have the vaguest idea of what was really going on inside the boy's head.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: He looked into his own head and thought he saw the world, including his boy.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: That was such a great story.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Such a great example.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when we think about this empathetic listening, that's an example of unempathetic listening.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: He was able, he was hearing the words that his son was saying, maybe, but he was already formulating his response.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: He he wasn't doing these different tips.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So being interested in the speaker, having good eye contact, having good body language, minimizing the distractions, which can be lots of things, whether it's pulling out your cell phone, texting, while they're talking, and kind of doing the up and down thing, if you've seen that before.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Invite the speaker to expand on his or her thoughts rather than just jumping in with our own ideas and our own diagnosis, and then respond in a tone that's appropriate for the situation.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to take he then gets into sort of the doctor thing?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think he was at a ball game one time or something, and they had a young child, and and and it's this whole thing of diagnosing before you prescribe, not jumping in too soon.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to take that?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: He he talks about this idea of diagnosing before we prescribe, and we see how important it is in all of these other areas, like going to the doctor.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: You want them to give you a good solid diagnosis before they just prescribe you a medicine or before they prescribe a procedure or surgery or something like that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, isn't that that's how we normally operate?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes when it comes to listening, we want to try to fix the person and we want to try to fix the problem before we've diagnosed, before we've understood what the other person is saying.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And this can be challenging.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the most convicting thing for me in this chapter was this uh fourth out of five levels, this attentive listening where you're like you're focusing, but what he calls an autobiographical listening because you're always tying it back to your own experience and assuming everyone else's experience is like your experience.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is so hard.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know this is so hard, but there's these four levels, and I think if we if we take just even the rest of today as we're listening, we will see ourselves in these four autobiographical responses.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the first that he says is evaluation.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So somebody's speaking to you, maybe they're sharing a problem or a frustration, and the first thing you're doing is deciding in your head, do I agree with this person or do I disagree with this person?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when we're in that mode, we're not trying to understand them, we're trying to decide do we agree or disagree.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: The second is probing, asking questions, asking follow-up questions.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I'll say that with these four autobiographical responses, he doesn't say that we should never use them, and he doesn't say that they're all bad.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a time and place for each one, but we need to be aware enough, we need to be in tune enough to understand when is the appropriate response, depending on what the other person says.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So probing, asking further questions, hey, how are you doing today?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: You say good.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: A probe might be, well, why is why is your day good?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a solid question to be able to ask.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Advise.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is where our our counselor hat, our Mr.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Fixit hat turns on.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes, maybe once or twice, you guys have experienced this if you're married, and your wife is sharing something with you, and then you put Mr.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Fixit hat on, and hey, why don't you do this?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just do this.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: That works really well.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's great all the time.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they love that when you do that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just love it.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then interpreting.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is trying to explain.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you must feel this way because of this, or you must you have this problem because you clearly didn't do X, Y, or Z.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because back when I had the problem, that was the issue with me.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, back when I was, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've been in, I remember when I was in middle school and the school dance and all of these things.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: It reminds me back of the son and the father.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So then he uh he talks, he gets to he warms up to his theme.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: How do you develop this empathic?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: He calls it this, not sympathetic, but empathic lead uh listening, where you get in there person.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So he says it involves four levels of development.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: The most most basic level is mimicking.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can start off, if you're just learning how to do this, by repeating what the other person is saying.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: They say, I'm worried this isn't gonna go well.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you say, You say you're worried.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you do that more than once, they'll look at you and go, I hate you.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just shut up.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the next level is rephrasing the content.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: The other person goes, I think we won't meet the deadline.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you go, You think we're falling behind?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: See, you've kind of rephrased it.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't use the word deadline.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so but that's better.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's better.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Next level, that's good.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Third level of development is reflecting the feelings and emotions of the person.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they go, It seems like we're not accomplishing what we need to do to get done on time.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you say, Seems like this is frustrating to you.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty good.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Still, though, yeah, you could get higher.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the fourth and final stage of development is rephrasing the content and reflecting the feeling.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So they say, it just seems like our people aren't working together.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you say, So you're frustrated that we're unable to work together to get our task done on time.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you're worried we're not going to be able to finish the project by deadline, right?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that way you sort of have listened really carefully, you're rephrasing, and so forth.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now he makes this interesting point that this ties in with the last chapter, because if you listen like this, you actually are depositing into their emotional bank account.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: It actually, good listening makes people that you're talking to feel so good, they're so happy that someone's finally listening to them, that you're actually uh increasing their emotional bank account, and that's really key for him.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So then he gets down to the uh he's trying to wrap this chapter up, and he introduces a brand new idea.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was very interesting in the last couple pages.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Would you mind taking us through that?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is, and I'm sure in some context and some form you you've heard of of these three levels, and we see that it goes back to a lot of a lot of Greek folks back in the day, and probably even before them, but there are some guys who put names to these, who put words on these.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So ethos, pathos, and then lagos.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then this part is about not the seeking to understand, but this is about seeking to be understood.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this is this is the second part.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is when we're conveying our ideas.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: We we want the other person to understand where our position is and where where we're coming from.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so he says the ethos, this is the credibility.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is the the character, this is about integrity, it's about trust.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to convey a good message, if you want to be effective in your communication, number one thing is they've got to be able to trust you.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just as an individual, regardless of what you're going to tell them, they need to have that faith that you are a person of integrity.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second is the pathos.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is the the emotion or the relationship side.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: They need to be able to know that that you're connecting with them on a level where you emotionally understand them and where they can emotionally understand you.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this is why you have to start with the empathetic listening because that's the pathos.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so that that empathetic listening, and then that how that makes a deposit into the emotional bank account, is it leads to that other person being able to see that pathos, being able to know that you're going to connect with them on a personal level.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last is the Lagos.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is what you're actually going to say.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is the logic, this is the reason, this is the sound argument.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: You prepare your sales talk.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so we see in this, we see, remember that right brain, left brain thing?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: We see both of those being taken into account whenever we want to communicate well with somebody else, whenever we want to make a solid presentation.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we all have experienced when one of these things is lacking, we don't receive what the other person is saying very well.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if you're talking with somebody and you know that they are just a scumbag and a person of really low character, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty quick to dismiss a lot of what they're going to say.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you don't feel like they're actually listening to you, you don't feel like there's that emotional uh connection there, that that pathos.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they talk and talk and talk, and you know in your mind that they are not listening to you, you're probably not gonna open up as much to them.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or if their logic is illogical, you're gonna be pretty quick to dismiss their argument.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why it's important to have all three of these things.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So then he does the Billy Graham thing.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: He brings the brings it home by uh in his last page called one-on-one by saying this.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to read it?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Habit five is powerful because it is right in the middle of your circle of influence within your control.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: As you seek first to understand, you really deeply understand other people, get to the heart of the matters quickly, build emotional bank accounts, and then make it easy to work together effectively.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is something that we can control.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter what everybody else is doing, we can practice empathetic listening and see how far it'll go to go towards building our relationships, towards making presentations better, towards the people who we love the most and want their respect.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: This will help them to trust us.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Good Bible verse.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: James 119.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to become angry.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got some uh group discussion starters today.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: How would you rate yourself as a listener to your wife, to your children, to people at work?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you tend to be an autobiographical listener?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, can you think of a place and time you might practice empathetic listening today?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great story.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: In the chapter, remember about when Covey would go around and speak, he would challenge them that evening to become an empathetic, to be an empathetic, to practice empathetic listening.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he tells the story at the beginning, I think at the beginning of the chapter or maybe at the end, if some guy came back, he had a sales presentation, they were refusing it, they didn't want anything to do with it, and then he said, he just sat back and said, I'm just really interested.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I understand I haven't gotten the contract, but just tell me exactly what you are looking for, and just share with me what your issue is.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and he just listened hard for like the next half hour.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then the guy got up, the salesman got up, he was calling his wife, and he put his hand over the phone and said, By the way, you've got the contract.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so anyway, practice empathetic listening.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Number three, assignment.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Base your next presentation or difficult conversation on empathy.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Describe their point of view as well or better than they can do it, then help them to understand your point of view.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, that's good.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good chapter.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's pray and then we'll talk about this listening thing.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: God, thank you.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: That we get to talk about listening.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: We know that listening is important to us.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: We read that in James.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: We know that it's important to you because you are you are the best listener there is.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow you can listen to everybody in the world at once and pray that through our relationships with our spouses, with our kids, with our coworkers, with our friends, that we would practice empathetic listening and that your through your spirit you would help us to become better at that.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: In Jesus' name.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.