Latest / Skin Anarchy / Skin Inflammation: A Beginner’s Guide To Understanding Inflammation And The Role Of Skincare With Dr. Ebru

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Skin Inflammation: A Beginner’s Guide To Understanding Inflammation And The Role Of Skincare With Dr. Ebru · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Scouture Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host back down and I'm really excited today because we are gonna finally talk about a topic that keeps coming up again and again, you know, whether it's directly or indirectly.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're all learning about inflammation and what it means for us and our skin and all of the things that come with that, but I just don't feel like we have any real like understanding of like the complexity of immunology when it comes to that, and that's exactly why I'm so excited about our guest coming back today, Dr.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Ibrew.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of you might remember her from uh the episode we did featuring Avecina, which is her brilliant brand, which I'm obsessed with.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm really excited to host you, Dr.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ibrew, again about learning more from you and learning about inflammation.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, welcome back.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: So excited to have you back.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to be here.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So such an honor to host you.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I genuinely am like your biggest fan, and I think it's you're just brilliant.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I I can't wait.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've been making more videos on like social media trying to educate us on inflammation and you know what I mean, like just help understand like the real nitty-gritty stuff.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I'm hoping today we can dive into a little bit, you know, and just go into it a little bit more.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to be here.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for this opportunity.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we start?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Let's start with inflammation, right?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because everybody talks about inflammation like it's a bad thing.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Inflammation is not bad.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is inflammation, especially on the skin?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, inflammation happens, especially when it's let's start with the skin thing.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: It happens when the skin's defensive responses are active against the various stimuli, such as microbial invasion, it could be an allergenic substance, it could be physical harm or chemical irritants.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: And this response is orchestrated by the immune system, and this takes care, takes place by a complex series of cellular molecular mechanisms.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end, the main goal is to get rid of the culprit and initiate tissue repair.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: However, the one of the things that is not understood is inflammation is not bad.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Inflammation is natural, and when it's acute, which means it's uh found at a basal level when the you know the various stimuli like these microbial invasions we're talking about, they come, they induce the harm.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Inflammation goes up, gets rid of the culprit, goes down, initiate tissue repair, it's done.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: However, what what is what is the thing we do not want is inflammation, which is another type of inflammation.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And how is it different from inflammation?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Inflammation is your chronic low grade, or you can say micrograde inflammation that's primarily associated with the aging process, but it's also uh seen in the young people as well.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So on acute inflammation, which is a tempered response to injury or infection, inflammation is persistent, it's systematic, and it happens without an apparent external stimuli and it contributes to progressive decline in tissue function or cellar function.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: So accelerate the aging process and it could lead to various diseases, even in the younger people.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like a prolonged exposure, then it's like yeah.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So think like your car is running, you turn on the car and it's running, right?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's your normal levels of inflammation because you don't turn inflammation off, it's always there at a very minimal basis.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: However, inflammation is you're revving up the car, you're revving up the car, it's always there.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're going.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's not supposed to go, you know.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Acute inflammation is the necessary part of the healing process.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you got rid of the culprits, the bad things, now it goes into the healing process.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: However, inflammation is the persistent inflammation, and it cannot go into the healing process because it's stuck in the I need to get rid of this stimulant that's causing harm to me process.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like an open wound at all times.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it is.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you're constantly, you're itching the wound.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, what are the possible aging-related diseases, inflammation-related diseases in this case?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: For example, cardiovascular problems, frailty, some forms of cancer, metabolic syndrome, osteoporosis, infertility related to overeating aging.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then it affects also skin aging.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not only the skin, everything is affected.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is affected.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So this is this is where I get a little like, you know, there's a lot of conversation around, like, I'm glad you brought up skin.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of conversation around, like, you know, redness in the skin, or like, you know, we recognize that inflammation in the skin when I think things are really they've gone really bad.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's when we really start to look at it.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if you were to explain like what is truly inflamed skin, how would you go and you know define that?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go to the molecular and cellul processes and the inflammatory process.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because what I I love inflammation and in immune system.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's just amazing, you know?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say you have an inflammatory process happening on your skin, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: It could be due to the physical impact or some kind of microbial impact, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: So everything, every process in the skin, in the inflammatory process, is reveal, like revolves around the skin barrier function, the immune response, the skin microbiome, and the environmental influences.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: So environmental influence could be stress, it could be, you know, all those stimuli we talked about.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: So maintaining the homeostasis, which is the balance of the system, is essential to protect against these irritants and pathogens, right?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: So when we look at it, first let's look at the cellar processes.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a very complex multifaceted response, and think it like a battlefield.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So this harmful stimuli comes in.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: What happens first?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say there is a microbe on your skin.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: What happens first?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: The immune cells are recruited to the area.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: So your skin is injured, there's an infection, immuno cells, neutrophils, macrophages, dendritic cells, TL phocytes.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're all coming there as the first responders, right?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they are, they start to phagocyte, I mean, start to eat up these pathogens and dead cells.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that way they're cleaning, they're trying to clean up the environment, and they are initiating the adaptive immune response, which is your B cells, antibodies, and all that.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: But in your cells, there's other, like in your skin, there's other cells, keratinocytes.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: They're activated in epidermis, and they induce the inflammatory response by producing cytokines and chemokines, which cause more immune cells to the area, saying that, hey, I need help.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Then like little flares, they're throwing up little flares.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Little flares.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when you start seeing some redness on your skin and itching notes thanks to histamine, that means the process has started and it's in the middle of it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the fibroblasts get activated because now we're moving into the tissue repair phase because the fibroblasts are trying to produce the collagens and other extracellulatrix proteins for the tissue repair.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is just the cellular part.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: You have the cyclokines and the chemokine production.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: You need these little signaling molecules because they regulate all the inflammatory response, and that's how the amino cells are talking to each other, and the rest of the cells are talking to each other.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: You have also these skin cells are expressing pattern recognition receptors, which we call some of them are toll receptors.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: And by expressing those, it recognizes these bad, let's say, bacteria, part of bad bacteria, and signal the pathways.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Signaling the pathway is leading to more pro-inflammatory cytokines, calling more immuno cells.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: An F kappa B pathway gets activated.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oxidative stress gets activated, which is very interesting here, where the skin microbiome comes to play, because when you have reactive oxygen species, your skin microbiome can produce also an antioxidant.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if there is an imbalance between these reactive oxygen species versus the skin's antioxidant defenses, it causes more inflammation and tissue diet.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: See, everything is balanced, and this is just a cute thing.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: This just happened one time.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Think about this happening all the time.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: You have it all the time, and that's inflammating.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's I love that.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that is so amazing that you went into such depth because it's so important, I think, for consumers to understand that it's not just a like you said, it's cellular and it's molecular.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's uh it's two prongs, and it's like you keep going deeper and deeper, and these things need to be understood because when we're using products, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like let's tie it together with the skincare aspect.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: When you're using products that are constantly inflicting some sort of irritation, right?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or some sort of like response that that is conducive towards having inflammation, you're then talking about what you discussed, where it's like prolonged time, you know, a time period of just constant inflammation, you know, and that's gonna lead to rapid aging, like you were talking about.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So when I want to ask you, like when it comes to skincare products, like what are some things you know are really good, like in terms of having as as you know, like keeping things on the on the base, like keeping things at baseline with inflammation.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, one of the things is routine.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: So even if you have a good skincare line that's gonna help your skin microbiome and the barrier, you can't do it only one night and get over with it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have also the least amount of products, the better.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: If they're multifunctional and multitasking, that means you're touching your face less.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: A good formulator can formulate it in a way that it could be multitasking, multifunctional.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Using the right ingredients in the right order is also key.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like for example, you can't have 20% neosinamide in a product.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: The most that was shown in PubMed by scientific publications is 5%.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't have any studies that's gonna show if I apply 20% every day, is it gonna be good for me?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Anything excess is bad for you.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we need to be a little bit cautious about what we put our on our faces.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Also, I want to emphasize something else.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now, there's these very young kids around 10, 12 teenagers, going and trying to use retinoids on their faces.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: They don't need it, you know, like right, right, right.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's and you know what's interesting too is I'm sure you've seen it like with the retinol conversation, also this benzyl peroxide stuff that's come out.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what's funny?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not surprised at all.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying to, I was telling somebody that yesterday.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, it doesn't shock me that they found high levels of benzene because benzyl peroxide, for example, is a very it's a harsh irritant to the skin.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's been known since the 1980s.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, like retinol, when you talk about retinol, I I worry that for the exact same reason why you, you know, I'm against benzyl peroxide is that these are harsh chemicals, you know, and they're irritating.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And especially for, like you said, for teenage skin or like younger skin types, that's like completely damaging their barrier.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's not even letting it develop, you know, like you're not letting that yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, one can ask, when do I start seeing inflome aging?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: The thing is, when you're younger, your skin is stronger, your immune is stronger, like you have a faster metabolic rate, you can repair faster.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, now I'm over 40.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna tell you the exact age, you know.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: I wanna pick up 40, but after 40, you start seeing the impact.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say around 30 is the time, is a good time to take preventative care about, you know, inflammation, because also it's related to your lifestyle.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you're having shifts every two nights, you're an MD and you're overstressed, you're gonna see it, the effects of premature aging faster than a 20-year-old who is an undergrad in college.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's the age aspect, there is the stress aspect, everything adds up.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Everything.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: So using an inflammatory, sorry, anti-inflammation skincare around 20s doesn't make any sense to me.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it only makes sense to me to have preventative care with minimal amount of active, like staying away from retinol, staying away from benzylperxide.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Benzylperoxide is not my favorite, by the way.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of thing.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Keeping everything in balance, keeping the skin skin talks.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: You're still talking to you.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Your immunos just still talks to you.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's important to listen.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what's so intriguing about what you're what you said is this idea of homeostasis isn't kind of thrown out the window these days, you know.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: When we look at a lot of things, you know, whether it's the wellness industry or I because I don't want to just pick on skincare, you know, because I think a lot of skincare, like Obviousina's a brilliant brand, you know what I mean?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're doing such great work there.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So like I think skincare is a little bit more, we tend to pay attention to this, but a lot of industries, wellness, you know, the gym industry, whatever, we we're not talking about this idea of like overall like homeostasis of the body, you know what I mean?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And especially with if you look at specific organs, you don't talk about that enough either.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: But really, the body's natural inclination is to always drive towards it, you know, and that's just like you're saying, balance.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the body craves.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I look at a lot of things, you know, whether it's products or treatments or whatever, I always see it.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why are you going into a situation putting your body in a situation or your skin in a situation that's going against its natural flow, you know, and flow of being what it is, you know?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just find it to be a little kind of backwards in that sense.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's really about homeostasis.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I I I really like what you said.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, remember we talked about the gut skin axis before, yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: How it impacts like so there's also a like a thought that you know every organ is isolated, you know, they they no, the body is an open system.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, stress affects you, stress affects your brain, your brain is stressed, stress that stress affects your immune system, which affects everything else, right?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, how is the gut affects the skin?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very interesting combination.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we started talking about skin microbiome, but the gut also has a microbiome that is critical in our health, right?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it is this whole gut skin axis, it's it's mediated by your immune system.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's the immune system is king.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's a period.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: The gut microbiome and it's metabolic products.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So if there is an imbalance or the disruption of the homeostasis of the gut microbiome, which is called dysbiosis, and that causes increased intestinal permeability, right?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Which is called leaky gut.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: So this leads to systemic inflammation.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: How does it cause go to systemic inflammation?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if it's in my intestines, one might ask, why am I seeing it on my skin?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Here's how it works.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: So when your gut, your intestines have increased permeability, the um there is these proteins called tight junction proteins that causes the intestinal barrier integrity.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: It is it it's like a wall.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Think it like a wall, but it has really tiny, tiny like channels between these walls, which regulates the passage of these good materials and nutrients into the body.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: However, when these junctions are disturbed, all these bad microbes, toxic waste materials that are supposed to go outside with the poop, yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now your bloodstream.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's definitely you don't want that because then you have systematic inflammation.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we go from the leaky gut syndrome towards increased intestinal permeability gets into the blood?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: How does it affect the skin?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you are systemically inflamed, all these bacteria enter toxins and it induces other inflammatory mediators, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's all in your bloodstream.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: You are on constant inflammation now, and you don't even know it at the beginning.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's gonna happen?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna trigger inflammation, including your skin inflammation, and then more and more inflammatory cytokines are going to be released, and you're gonna have more problems at the end.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and everything's tied.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's all tied together.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's I mean, I love that you went into the leaky gut because you know, what's crazy about leaky gut is that we we think it's impacting, you know, people jump on board when they think it's impacting your liver or like, you know, these other organs, like, you know, that are nearby, but really, yeah, it packs everything, including your brain, you know, like inflammation over time, as you know, like it's gonna wreak havoc on everything.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's through your bloodstream that all this is happening, which is the crazy part.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I think a lot of times it's hard to grasp is that you know, things are moving through tissues, but it's also circulating through your bloodstream.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's impacting everything, guys.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, think about how vascularized your skin is, you know, it's getting so much, everything, all toxins, all you know, like you were talking about, Dr.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Iber, like, you know, any cytokines, anything, everything is being transferred and trans, I should say, transported through your whole body.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: So wherever things are leaking out or wherever they're, you know, going through fenestrations and stuff in the capillaries and you know, residing in different tissues, like it's the whole body that's impacted.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think this is it's a huge, huge component.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's so, I mean, when I was doing my PhD, you know, my my subject was how estrogen affects the immune system.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we were like a couple labs only was doing this study, and they were like, No, it wouldn't affect the immune system.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's in the, you know, it's produced from the ovaries and whatnot.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, have you ever seen a woman before their period how upset they are?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely affecting, it's gonna affect the immune system.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: That was my answer to one of the professors, and he was like, You have a point.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: See, everything affects everything, it's it's amazing.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, absolutely, and absolutely.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I want to actually, you know, so let me ask you some advice then, because obviously, you know, there's a lot of people that are very keen on, you know, I think a lot of supplements are coming up, is what I'm trying to say, you know.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so my question then is, you know, when we're talking about like what's your opinion on taking something to reduce like inflammation from the gut into the skin?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know if I quite buy it, you know what I mean?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know if I buy the idea of if you take supplements, it's gonna help the gut skin access or whatever you know, people are like marketing these days.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm just curious what your opinion of that is.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it depends on the supplement.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I need to see the supplement, but yeah, here is another thing.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So there's something called placebo effect.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Placebo effect works, you know, that it's proven, you know that.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the things is you need to be careful what you are using as a supplement.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: If your body's situation is good for that supplement, what if you're autoimmune?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: What if you have Crohn's disease?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: What if you have inflammatory bowel disease?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Then none of that stuff is gonna work, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a very personalized issue.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them might have valid uh support, some of them are gonna be quacks, as you know, everything, even in skincare and cosmetics, we have that.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it needs to be analyzed per supplement and per person basis, yeah.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: But one needs to be very careful about what they're ingesting, to be honest.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, no, of course, I think everyone should just eat more fiber-rich diets.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's honestly what I think.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, because leaky gut is increased by bad dietary habits, high sugar diet, fast, high fat, low fiber, these all in turn destroy the gut microbiome.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So if your gut microbiome, like think your microbiome as your tiny little soldiers, your minions defending against the bad bacteria.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because if there is a like a breach in that wall they establish, bad bacteria would be very happy to live in that bridge and you know, pass through that.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Same with the skin microbiome, same with the gut microbiome.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely I agree with you.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like high fiber diet, good diet, vegetables, fruits, good meats, fish, chicken, whatever you prefer.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: But high sugar, high alcohol, high fats, these are not healthy.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Helping us.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, I agree with you completely, 100%.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And also I wanted to actually ask one question that a little overarching because you had brought up, you know, you had gone into cellular versus like, you know, the molecular signaling and the effects, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: The impact of inflammation on those two different tiers.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And my question is, what are some like anti-inflammatory cytokines?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you could go into them a little bit and help people like understand, because I feel like we learned this in medicine and science, but it should be put out there, you know, like just these are the anti-inflammation markers, and you should, you know, know about it kind of thing.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go to okay, we're gonna go into T cell immunology a little.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So there's T helper ones and T helper twos.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: So T helper ones are predominantly inflammatory, they produce more inflammatory, like IL interpharyngoma is my star.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love interpharyngoma.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: IL-27, uh we have IL-12, that's from the macrophages and all that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So all that group comes up in the first line of defense, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: You have your inflammatory molecules, your TH2s, which are your anti-inflammatory, like the IL-4 is the store, IL-10 that's mostly produced by T regular cells, those come back later.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the duty of anti-inflammatory cytokines is predominantly to stimulate your B cells so they can produce the antibodies needed in that case, you know.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, there's some, you know, some thought says inflammation is bad, they're also favoring anti-inflammatory.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: So anti-inflammatory is not the correct term because if you're anti-inflammatory, that means your inflammation site is not working, your first line of defense, your macrophages and whatnot, they're not working properly.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Your B cells are working like crazy, turning into plasma cells and creating a lot of antibodies at the end could also produce auto antibodies that could attack you.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: So in that case, we're going back to the homeostasis, right?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: We want, think like a seesaw.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: One side you have inflammation, one side you have anti-inflammation.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: You want them in balance.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want one to be high up and one to be down.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: They could be, depending on the situation.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: For example, you got a virus coming in, yes, inflammation is gonna go up for a second, then anti-inflammation is gonna go up because you need that for the B cells to work, right?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like TL4 and whatnot.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: I sorry, so you need those.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: But saying a product is anti-inflammatory is wrong.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is wrong on the medical sense, that is wrong on the scientific sense, that is wrong on the immunology sense, that is completely wrong.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so important to understand is that there's no such thing.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I think that's where like I find such interest in these marketing gimmicks, you know what I mean, out here, because I I don't I don't understand where they come from.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you really study the science and if you really look into how these cells work, you had mentioned T cells and B cell interaction, then you know, you can't stop like inflammation is just part of being human, like that's just who you are as a person, it's a part of being a human being, the physiology of it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And to stop that, like you said, Dr.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Ibrew, like that's against like physiology, you know.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I don't even know where these words come from, like these marketing terms and all that, because it doesn't scientifically, you're right, it doesn't add up.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I think it gives people the idea that if I bombard my body with what they believe to be anti-inflammatory, like we were saying, it's actually inducing inflammation.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, am I right or wrong when I say that?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, that's that's the that's the fear I have, right?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: With consumers, because yeah, and because that's crazy.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like this fear-mongering thing.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: So everything is for humans, everything is natural, right?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: So inflammation is natural, inflammation is good.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Let's remove the inflammation from the body.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: What's gonna happen?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: The moment a virus comes in, and simplest virus, you're gonna die.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yet it was nothing to defend you, nothing to defend you.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: So you need inflammation to defend you.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's your first line of defense, even the immune system, and rest of it, we're very simplifying it right now, but it's a very beautiful, complex mechanism, it's just an orchestra of cells and proteins, and it's just amazing how it protects you from everything.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we don't see these bacteria and viruses and fungi and all that, yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: But we're exposed every second, and we're on the big amazing system.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say you're anti-inflammatory.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: What's gonna happen?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Virus comes in, there is nothing to defend you, you're completely anti-inflammatory, you die.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you die.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like you eradicated your army, like you you were you're dead.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you told your army.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like you because you're inflammatory.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sit.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we'll sit.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see what you're gonna do when the viruses come in.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's just funny.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I think that's that's so that's so true.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, it's interesting how we can relate it to like a war zone, you know, you have the infantry come in first, and then you've got the archers, and you know, it your body, your body does work like that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I always say like the whole, like, you know, everything's like a fractal, you know, if you look at it, like everything is applied, like what you guys see on the grand scale, that's how your body works too.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like on the smaller level, but you're yeah, exactly.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's your first defense mechanism, like you're telling your defense to go down, like you're putting your walls down, basically, and saying, attack me.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Take me, eat me.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing is we how we can inflammate ourselves, you know how?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're overly stressed, if you are if you have high anxiety, all that stress, brain is an amazing thing.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: It can work for you, it can work against you.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are overly stressed and if you can't control it, it's not gonna understand if you're going into a fight or a flight response, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it'll start taking precautions.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's gonna go into to it's going to think that something is attacking you when you're under stress.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's going to take some precautions, it's gonna increase the inflammation at some areas, and it's going to suppress inflammation at some times.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why you get sick easier when you are stressed.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because your body is like redirecting its resources.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: And by constantly stimulating your immune system, you're going to take inflammation.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Stop.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say you're under inflammation, your immune system is chronically working at a lower low level, but higher than a normal level, right?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get sick.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: A virus comes in, then a bacteria comes in, then a MRSA comes in.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just throwing names here.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: But it can only fight with so much.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's not endless, it can only direct its energy and defend you at certain areas.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: How can you help your body?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: What is it gonna do?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Supplement?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: I like B vitamins and C vitamins, but if you take more C vitamins, there are studies in PubMed, they're not good for you.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Anything is not good for you.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: So every everything needs to be done in homeostasis in balance with your body's needs and also stress management.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm preaching to myself too, by the way.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I know.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, like, says the scientist, stress management.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I mean you're so right, and I love that you're you're really telling us that because it is true.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that you know, we don't like accepting.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's human nature to want this like extreme cure for stuff, right?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know why, because the body, like you said, like there is a balance and there is this, like it's a limited reservoir that you have, you know.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like once you're depleted, you're depleted.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we have states like dehydration, for example, you know, everything is like that exhaustion, heat stroke, all those things.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you can only fight so much before your body gives in.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you look at the organ level of that, when I look at the skin, for example, I feel like what we were talking about earlier when it came to like bombarding your skin, with, for example, if you're only using actives or if you're only using, you know, like 20% vitamin C or 20% niacinamide, your skin eventually is gonna be like, dude, I'm sick of fighting this off.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, stop doing this to me.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's where we have the skin barrier, you know, completely fall apart because it's saying I'm done enough, you know.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: That 20-step Bacurian regimen everybody was doing at one point.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, curious, okay, because everybody's like, This is 10 years ago, I guess.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was curious, I was like, Oh, did I knew this?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm just curious.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, third day I broke up everything, and I didn't have acne for the longest time.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I broke up like crazy, and I'm like, my immune system is pissed.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: My skin, I'm not doing this seriously.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it gets like that.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even like for me through this, like because of the podcast, like I try so many different products, you know, but like I really have to take breaks.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have to take serious skin breaks.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, I'm not putting anything on my skin.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to go a day or two with nothing and let it come back to normal, you know, because any like you said, anything that is an excess is going to cause a problem.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's the bottom line.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, that's I think as consumers, we have to get behind that.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I just yeah, it really resonates what you explained, you know.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I I think that's very important.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can have one cream, you can use it day and night.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: You can do that.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: You can have one clean cleanser, use it day and night.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: But find the right one, find the one with the science behind it, find the one you believe in, and find the brand you can actually email and say, Hey, you put this in.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you put in having this problem?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have a scientific publication for this?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can you write if that brand knows their stuff, they will they will answer you.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: I like talking, you know.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: I like sharing because this this is not rocket science, but it's not talked about, it's not shared, it should not be hidden, it should be shared.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: That says we're anti-influencer.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, you're not.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're not.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm looking at the ingredients, I'm looking at the formulations, it's the worst formulation ever.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: And using one hero ingredient and you're charging 200 something, come on.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's exactly so there are some products that are worth their money.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when I look at it, it's like 150 bucks, yes.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm looking at the ingredients, okay.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: I will pay this money for this cream, I will do it because I can use it at night, I can use it at this.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: It is answering more than 10 problems I want to address.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, then I will go for it.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: I will give that money, but I am not giving the money for one hero ingredient who says they're doing this and they have no credentials.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing that.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not exactly yes.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, I love that you said that.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no credentials, bro.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what I feel like if there's one message you guys take home from this podcast, seriously, and I really do stand behind this, please vote with your dollars for scientists and people who know what they're doing.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not I'm not joking when I say that.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you're buying a brand backed by somebody that has no credentials, doesn't know what they're talking about, can't give you that feedback that Dr.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Ibu just described, like where if I email you and you don't give me, you don't send back a paper or some sort of literature or something to explain to me why you've used the ingredient you've used or why what are the adverse effects I could expect from this, you know, anything, right?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely you're not even taking like your skin seriously, in my opinion, at that point.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're just at this point, you're just just throwing your money away, you know.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I really urge everybody, like if you are somebody in the market looking for true products, these are some of just fundamentals you should look for, you know, in people is do they know what they're talking about?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people out here making products, guys.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of people, and it's not, I'm not hating on anybody at all.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not, but what I'm saying is there's a right way to do things, which is the scientific approach, in my honest opinion.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Dr.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Ebru is aligned with that because we're both scientists, and you know, I think science is fundamental, you know, in anything that as far as like an OTC product goes.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's not there, yeah, I'm not gonna why would I buy you?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is what am I getting?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is my question.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like what's the benefit?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, when you purchase a product, for example, we're both females, we're both women.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking about myself, why would I purchase it?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, on a store, like you know, it's an impulsive shopping.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: But in after that impulsive shopping, you think about it, okay.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: I work hard for this money, very hard.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Am I buying value?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: What is it giving me?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is it giving me a shiny package with a really nice box?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, if that's what you're into, go for it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: But are you about buying scientific value with results inside that packaging?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: If the answer is yes, go for it.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Don't look at the money because you are paying for the value, you're paying for the health it's gonna give you.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's you're paying for the you know, ease of mind.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I love ease of mind.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to think about a product when I'm using it.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because I have too much things to think about.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't want to think about is this cream gonna work?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Does it have the optimal amount of neosinamite?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not gonna break out later.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to think about that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think anybody wants to think about that.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, and and that's the thing is like I feel like we're we we need to pay for what's you know exactly that.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did they do their homework or not?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I'll pay for that.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: If a brand did their homework and they did the scientific, you know, looking up of the information, applying theory to, you know, practical, yeah, hell yeah, I'll pay for that any day, you know.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: But but I other than that, I don't I don't really believe in I don't mind a marketing hype.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: You just said in the marketing this year.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think what we're gonna see.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of branding agencies are looking at which keywords are popping up on TikTok, on Instagram, and social media, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Based on those keywords, we're gonna see more and more companies or brands found around that keyword.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like let's say sensitivity is a keyword, right?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna come and say, Oh, we're dealing with sensitivity.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Based on that keyword, and they're gonna try to, you know, go with that keyword, and we're gonna see only two or three products, maybe.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, I'm like, okay, so you did a formula, good.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: You did this, good packaging is nice, but you're not real.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's not exactly.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's exactly what it is.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like literally like SEO tools to are telling these companies what words to use to build a product around.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's wild.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know, you just because things are being talked about, like if you know, this in the science community, that's not at all how research works.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you chase the actual idea, you don't chase buzzwords and what looks flashy.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, like and if you guys are seeing something, that's another thing, Dr.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Ibrew.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to like actually talk to you about some key words that you've heard, you know, because in in terms of inflammation and and immunology, because I think that, you know, when you do see words, it's important to start recognizing, you know what I mean?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: That no, this is a this is a catch, like you're trying to catch me here, you know.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're using this word incorrectly.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Consumers need to come to that understanding.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe you can share with us some words like an inflammation that you've seen.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know we talked about inflammatory aging, but is there anything else you've seen that's like buzzworthy or like you know, buzzwords?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Or you anti-inflammate inflammatory and anti-inflammation wrong, you know that.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we talked about that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Inflammaging is popping up more and more.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: I saw at least two, three companies following us, which is nice.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I'm on that aspect, I'm I'm glad inflammation is gaining traction because we've been talking about it since 2021, 2020, you know, during COVID.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm glad that's picking up, but it needs to be the right information, it needs to be with credentials, as you said.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: What else?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm seeing sensitivity is popping up more and more because people realize everybody's sensitive.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: It you could be sensitive, you could be okay today, you can get stressed tonight, and tomorrow you have a breakout, honey.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're sensitive now.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it can happen.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm seeing that more.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also seeing a lot of problems with skin due to early use of retinol, which is sad because I love retinols, it shouldn't be, you know, used like this.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Just misuse of it.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: New generation, the younger generation are using products they shouldn't use yet.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's too strong for them.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we should talk about it later.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of dermatologists are warning and talking about it.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: However, I think in this case, parental guidance is very important.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's key.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think these are the things I can think about right now.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean I think that's solid.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of these like, you know, really like eye-catching things.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important for everyone listening out there.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you are, you know, ever shopping for skincare and you are looking for something to reduce redness, or you know, you have something going on that you think isn't, you know, linked to chronic inflammation, you know, for sure, understand that.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think take home is like understand it for what it is, look into the science of it, but just try to avoid, you know, marketing terms because a lot of companies, you're right, Dr.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Eber, I think when I interviewed you for Obviousina, like Obvicina, like I understood what you were doing from that, you know, the immunology perspective, like in the line, but I've seen inflamma aging become this like buzzword.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like brands are literally targeting younger audiences, I feel like, with their colorful packaging, they're pretending like everything is okay.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to ever target a younger audience, in my opinion.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do that, like let them discover things, what's good for them in the right time.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm seeing a lot of that, but that's my you know, that's my opinion.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my my advice to listeners is just do your homework, you know, at the end of the day.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Also, question about something here.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we're seeing more and more cheaper brands coming out, cheaper products coming out.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, how can you make a cheap product?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: Either you decrease the amount of ingredients that are gonna work, you decrease the percentage that's gonna work, or you decrease the quality that's gonna work.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you could be a huge brand and end up getting everything in bulk, but you can only save so much.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: So when you think about it, you okay, you're using a cheaper product, yes, you're saving from your money, but are you helping your skin health?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is the question I want to leave people think about this.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because once the health is gone, fixing it is harder and more expensive.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's my because I so I'm acne prone, right?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: My skin gets disturbed very easily.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I know really I feel this pain.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was younger, of course, as a student, I had to go for a cheaper product every time I used it, every time my skin went bonkers.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: It took me months to fix it.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Months.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's not exactly cheaper products, are not worth it in the long run.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: It will cost more.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Cheap is expensive in the long run.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I agree, I completely agree, and I think that's that, yeah, especially with the youth too.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: That scares me for them.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: I really hope they don't damage their skin.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: I really do, you know.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because even if they fix it now, there might be other problems in the future.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, scarring.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Scarring is a big I mean that's another thing.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we can cover this in another episode.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we should go into like wound healing at one point because that's people don't understand that is that you know, it doesn't you don't always have to cut yourself to have a scar, guys.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's like what we talked about in this episode with chronic inflammation, that also leads to scar tissue formation in your body, and especially with skin, and that's a big issue.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's a concern for me, you know, for the younger generation.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want them to use these products to the point where they're causing like prolonged, like you had you know, taught us about chronic inflammation, like, and then at the end, you get this like scar tissue formation that kind of starts deforming the way your skin sits, you know, and everything.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really big conversation, it's really, really big.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we need to spend time on that and and discuss it, you know, as like a society and an industry, like it's just important at this point.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: But Dr.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ibrew, thank you so much.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: This was cool.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, guys, this is the first episode in the series we're gonna be doing with Dr.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ibrew because I feel like the more information we can get about different, you know, things related to inflammation and just immunology overall, the more well-versed we're gonna be when we're shopping.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I am really excited that we're gonna be continuing the series.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: But Dr.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Ibrew, you're the best.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your time.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was so fun chatting with you.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was great.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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