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Pastors' Perspective-10/07/26 · Pastors Perspective

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  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host, Brian Perez,
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  Speaker 1: and we are live on this Wednesday afternoon, a beautiful
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  Speaker 1: Wednesday afternoon, and ready to take your calls about the Bible,
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  Speaker 1: the Christian faith, just about anything you want to talk about.
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  Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number to call. You can also watch
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  Speaker 1: us live streaming if you'd like to. We are on
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  Speaker 1: Facebook and YouTube and
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  Speaker 1: What's the other one? On TV Select TV, one of those? No,
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  Speaker 1: I'm joking. We're, we were talking about old, old-time, uh,
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  Speaker 1: cable channels before there was cable. I don't even know
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  Speaker 1: what that was called, but, uh, we are.
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  Speaker 1: Facebook, YouTube and Instagram, that's the other one. And then
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  Speaker 1: we archive all of our episodes online later on, on Facebook, YouTube,
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  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. But if you've got a question,
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  Speaker 1: call in now at 888-564-6173, 888-564-6173. And yeah, you can
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  Speaker 1: Submit your questions online too, but uh we probably will
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  Speaker 1: not see them today. You would have to um call
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  Speaker 1: us if you'd like an answer to a question today
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  Speaker 1: at 888-564-6173. In answering your questions today, we've got Brian Broderson,
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  Speaker 1: the Pastor Emeritus at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. How are
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  Speaker 1: you doing, Brian?
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  Speaker 1: I'm doing all right, thank you. Yeah, we've also got
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  Speaker 1: Eric Thonis. He's a pastor at Grace Evangelical Free Church
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  Speaker 1: in La Morada, also one of the professors at the
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  Speaker 1: Talbot School of Theology at Biola University. Eric Thomas, good
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  Speaker 1: to see you too, sir.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you, Brian. Good to be with you both. Love
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  Speaker 1: that background. I mean, you guys either have, uh, paid
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  Speaker 1: for the upgrade to the Zoom backgrounds and they just
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  Speaker 1: look incredible. But, uh, both of you, Eric, I don't
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  Speaker 1: know what's real anymore. Oh, I know, huh.
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  Speaker 1: Might be an AI background cabin in Sierra's fake background. No,
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  Speaker 1: that's actual a cabin in the Sierras. Is that, is
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  Speaker 1: that where you're at? Yes, at Hume Lake Christian Camp. Nice,
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  Speaker 1: very nice, very nice. And Brian, where are you? What's
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  Speaker 1: your background? Well, I, I'm in a, uh, cottage in, um, Somerville,
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  Speaker 1: South Carolina. Nice. Yes, and, um, Brian, uh, I was.
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  Speaker 1: Trying to communicate to you about the message I got
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  Speaker 1: yesterday that half my head was cut off, so I
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  Speaker 1: said tell Delois, not Dino, ah, to help me sort
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  Speaker 1: it out with camera.
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  Speaker 1: And then Johnny jumped right in and, and he did it.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, I, you know, yesterday, as far
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  Speaker 1: as I could tell, my face wasn't half off, but
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  Speaker 1: apparently there's something that happens on the big screen, um,
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  Speaker 1: but here we are. I think we got it sorted out. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: it's good to see you, Eric. How's, um, are you
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  Speaker 1: at a camp up there at
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  Speaker 1: Yes, I spoke at a men's retreat last weekend at
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  Speaker 1: Hume Lake, and then my wife and I are doing
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  Speaker 1: the marriage conference this weekend. And then there's a great
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  Speaker 1: creative arts conference the following week that we're speaking at. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: So you guys, are you there the whole time? Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the Hume
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  Speaker 1: Lake in Southern California in the, in the San Bernardino
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  Speaker 1: Mountains is actually, um, it's our property that they, they
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  Speaker 1: lease from us, right? So, it's been, it's been so
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  Speaker 1: great to partner in that way. Yeah, yeah, it's been,
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  Speaker 1: it's been really good. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Hume Lake, meanwhile, the rest of Southern California is in
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  Speaker 1: humid Lake, still kind of a uh warm. When are
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  Speaker 1: we gonna get past this? It's October. Come on. But, um, anyway,
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  Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number to call. We'll start with a
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  Speaker 1: question that was submitted online on the pastor's perspective Facebook
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  Speaker 1: page using messenger, and Daniel from New Jersey wrote in
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  Speaker 1: and
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  Speaker 1: Says, I'm really curious about your thoughts on the alleged
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  Speaker 1: Noah's ark. Is this a real archaeological find or just
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  Speaker 1: fake news? Have you guys seen this on the news,
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  Speaker 1: Brian and Eric?
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  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, I've seen some, some stuff on it, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: for sure. OK, so what do you think? What's your take?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I, I think that the jury's out still. I think, um,
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  Speaker 1: you know, that, that location has, was tagged ages ago
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  Speaker 1: and many, many years ago, I remember back in the 80s,
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  Speaker 1: you know, there were people that were um saying that
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  Speaker 1: that it was, you know, quite probably Noah's Ark, and
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  Speaker 1: yet there, the access was not.
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  Speaker 1: Really there at the time, and now apparently they're able
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  Speaker 1: to access it and, ah it's been, it's been interesting
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  Speaker 1: because some of the headlines I've seen even in, you know,
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  Speaker 1: some of the British newspapers are like, Noah's Ark has
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  Speaker 1: been found and it's absolutely 100% certainly Noah's Ark, ah,
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  Speaker 1: but I don't think that that's the case. I think
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  Speaker 1: that there's still, um, a lot, there's a, there's a
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  Speaker 1: lot of um,
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  Speaker 1: Research still to be done before I think you could
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  Speaker 1: draw a final conclusion on it. So, um, yeah, it'd
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  Speaker 1: be fascinating if it was, but, uh, if it's not,
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  Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. So I'm interested in what
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  Speaker 1: Professor Eric thinks about that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I tend to be really skeptical about findings like this.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that that couldn't be the approximate location,
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  Speaker 1: but we're talking well over 4000 years ago. And it's
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  Speaker 1: highly unlikely anything of the ark is left, if that's
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  Speaker 1: where it was. And
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  Speaker 1: I think God has very purposely made sure there aren't
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  Speaker 1: those kinds of things that so easily end up getting worshiped. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: for centuries, the Roman Catholic Church made relics out of
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  Speaker 1: claimed findings of, of all sorts of things that people
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  Speaker 1: ended up worshiping. God knows that's our
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  Speaker 1: Inclination and it would end up getting worshiped pretty quickly.
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  Speaker 1: I actually think, I don't know why God hasn't given
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  Speaker 1: us the original manuscripts of the Bible, but if I
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  Speaker 1: were a betting man, I would say it's because we'd
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  Speaker 1: end up worshiping those original manuscripts and, and because that's
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  Speaker 1: our tendency. And so I, I doubt that.
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  Speaker 1: Even if, even if it that is the place and
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  Speaker 1: that's where the ark was, which, which could be, um,
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  Speaker 1: that God would have left things for us to so
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  Speaker 1: easily end up venerating.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, years ago, I remember and I, I
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  Speaker 1: probably should try to follow up on it, but um.
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  Speaker 1: There's a passage somewhere in the scripture that gives, kind
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  Speaker 1: of gives the, the geographical location of Ararat that is
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  Speaker 1: not in the same location that
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  Speaker 1: Mount Ararat is that that we know of today, and
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  Speaker 1: um
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  Speaker 1: I, I can't remember the passage, but I do remember, uh,
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  Speaker 1: thinking that, of course, that, that is interesting, but, but
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  Speaker 1: like you said, 4000 years is a long, long time.
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  Speaker 1: And so I am in the land where there are
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  Speaker 1: trees that are actually that old, but, but they haven't
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  Speaker 1: been rotting dead for all that time. Yeah, they're actually alive.
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  Speaker 1: Now, OK, uh, so, I'm gonna bring up another topic
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  Speaker 1: and see what you think about this, just because it's, uh,
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  Speaker 1: it's somewhat similar, the Shroud, the Shroud of Turin. Uh, again,
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  Speaker 1: I remember, you know, many, many years of kind of,
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  Speaker 1: you know, sort of people, um, claiming, absolutely, this is
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  Speaker 1: the burial shroud of Christ, and then another group of
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  Speaker 1: people would come along and give all the reasons why
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't, and that they, you know, people have gone
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  Speaker 1: back and forth for a long time.
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  Speaker 1: The thing that interests me now, and not that I've
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  Speaker 1: necessarily changed my view on it, I, I don't necessarily
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  Speaker 1: believe that it is, but it, it seems like, um,
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  Speaker 1: There are more reputable voices that are um
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  Speaker 1: Supporting the idea that that it really could be than
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  Speaker 1: there used to be in the past. In the past,
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  Speaker 1: it always seemed like it was some fringe, um, you know,
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  Speaker 1: wild kind of Indiana Jones type of a person, both
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  Speaker 1: with the ark and with some of the other, ah,
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  Speaker 1: ancient artifacts, but it seems like, uh, like Gary Habermass
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  Speaker 1: is kind of shocking to me because, you know, he
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  Speaker 1: is really, as, as you know, Eric, he's quite the scholar,
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  Speaker 1: and he's
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  Speaker 1: Pretty convinced that, you know, the shroud is legit. So,
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  Speaker 1: so what do you think?
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  Speaker 1: I have heard through the years, as you say, such
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  Speaker 1: wildly different findings about the shroud. Yeah, and honestly, I'm
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  Speaker 1: intrigued by why it is so intriguing.
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  Speaker 1: Uh, because we have an empty tomb.
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  Speaker 1: That is the evidence of the resurrection 2000 years ago,
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  Speaker 1: and
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  Speaker 1: And so again, I
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  Speaker 1: I'm more intrigued by why it's so intriguing to people
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  Speaker 1: than I am, even if it is legit or not.
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  Speaker 1: Because the, the, the basis of our faith certainly would
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  Speaker 1: never rise or fall on whether that was the shroud
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  Speaker 1: of Jesus or not. And, and again, this inclination to
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  Speaker 1: worship things.
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  Speaker 1: Rather than the God who is spirit who says not
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  Speaker 1: to make any image of himself, which those sorts of
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  Speaker 1: things so quickly become images that we, we worship. Yeah, yeah, right.
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  Speaker 1: Alright, I think well-meaning Christians would, would think, you know, if,
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  Speaker 1: if this was the shroud or if that was Noah's ark,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's proof and we can show our friends
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  Speaker 1: and they would finally come to Jesus. But then the
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  Speaker 1: other side also happens where if it turns out not
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  Speaker 1: to be the ark, then, oh man, now my friends
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  Speaker 1: are gonna say, see, I told you it was fake. Right. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: there's no doubt archaeology and history are great friends of
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  Speaker 1: the Bible.
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  Speaker 1: In its historicity, its veracity. So, so I'm not saying
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  Speaker 1: that that.
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  Speaker 1: Evidence outside the Bible isn't helpful in bolstering our confidence
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  Speaker 1: in its accuracy, but things, things that are that representative
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  Speaker 1: of things in the Bible, I just think end up
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  Speaker 1: getting worshiped so quickly.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and, and we have that, um, Old Testament example with, uh,
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  Speaker 1: in the time of Hezekiah, you know, the worshiping of the, um,
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  Speaker 1: the serpent, the bronze serpent, and Hezekiah takes and he
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  Speaker 1: destroys it and he says it's just a thing of brass,
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  Speaker 1: you know, stop worshiping it, so.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. All right, Daniel in New Jersey, thank you so
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  Speaker 1: much for sending in your question about Noah's Ark on the, uh,
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  Speaker 1: pastor's perspective Facebook page using Messenger. Let's do one more
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  Speaker 1: that was sent through Facebook and then we'll go to
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  Speaker 1: the phones 888-564-617.
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  Speaker 1: 3 is the number with Pastors Brian Broderson and Eric
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  Speaker 1: Thomas answering your questions. Cathy and Paul want to know
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  Speaker 1: about Galatians 5:16, which refers to walking in the spirit,
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  Speaker 1: and uh they just want to know what does that
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  Speaker 1: mean in practical terms. Eric, what do you say?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'm, I must say that I, I was a
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  Speaker 1: Christian for quite a few years before I realized how
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  Speaker 1: absolutely essential the work of the Spirit is in our lives.
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  Speaker 1: And how much we depend on him for. And I'm,
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  Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that in my twenties, I, I started
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  Speaker 1: to realize and appreciate and love the spirit more and,
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  Speaker 1: and worship him with, with great gratitude. I, I wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: be a born again new creature in Christ if he
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  Speaker 1: didn't take what was objectively true.
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  Speaker 1: In history, like we were just talking about, and make
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  Speaker 1: it subjectively transformative to me. There are actually most things
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  Speaker 1: in the Bible aren't hard for me to believe, like
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  Speaker 1: that we're sinners, like I'm a sinner, for instance, but
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  Speaker 1: The fact that Jesus says it is to your advantage
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  Speaker 1: that I go, because if I don't go, the Comforter
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  Speaker 1: won't come. Jesus says it's better that the Spirit's working
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  Speaker 1: the way he is in the life of the believers now,
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  Speaker 1: than if we still had him the way he was
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  Speaker 1: for those 33 years of his incarnate ministry. That's just
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  Speaker 1: astounding to me. But that's what Jesus says is an
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  Speaker 1: advantageous place for us to be. So the work of
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  Speaker 1: the Spirit is absolutely essential for for anything to happen.
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  Speaker 1: In the life of the believer, including becoming a new
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  Speaker 1: creature in the first place. But then, when you become
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  Speaker 1: a new creature in Christ, that begins the journey of discipleship,
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  Speaker 1: where you grow in the fruit of the spirit, you
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  Speaker 1: grow in conformity to the image of Christ, and the
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  Speaker 1: Spirit is the one who does that. He is the
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  Speaker 1: one who bears fruit in our lives.
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  Speaker 1: And makes us more like Jesus, gives us conviction of sin,
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  Speaker 1: helps us understand the scriptures, helps us to grow in
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  Speaker 1: all the ways he has for us, and walking in
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  Speaker 1: the spirit means being attentive to his work. Now, don't
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  Speaker 1: forget he's the one who inspired the Bible, and so
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  Speaker 1: the Spirit and the word work together profoundly. And so
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  Speaker 1: depending on the Spirit to enable us to be who
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  Speaker 1: God has created us to be and grow in all
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  Speaker 1: the ways he has, means we attend to his work
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  Speaker 1: in our lives, seeking it.
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  Speaker 1: And depending on the spirit and the word to come
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  Speaker 1: together in a profound, transforming way.
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  Speaker 1: Brian Broderson, what do you say?
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  Speaker 1: Mm
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  Speaker 1: Well, that was great. So, you know, I don't, I
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  Speaker 1: don't really have much to add. Um, I was, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I was reading 2 Corinthians today and there in the
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  Speaker 1: 4th chapter Paul says, um, the Lord is the Spirit
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  Speaker 1: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is
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  Speaker 1: liberty and um.
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  Speaker 1: And then, you know, in that, in that passage, he says, um,
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  Speaker 1: All of us
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  Speaker 1: Excuse me.
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  Speaker 1: Uh, with an unveiled face, he's, he's contrasting, Moses putting
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  Speaker 1: a veil on his face after he had his encounters
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  Speaker 1: with God, and he says, all of us New Covenant believers,
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  Speaker 1: with unveiled face, we are beholding as in a mirror
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  Speaker 1: the glory of the Lord, and we are being transformed
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  Speaker 1: from glory to glory by that same Spirit, and I
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  Speaker 1: think just as, as Eric said, you know, the, the
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  Speaker 1: work of the Spirit.
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  Speaker 1: Um, Jesus said, I'm, I will not leave you orphaned,
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  Speaker 1: but I will come to you, and he comes to
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  Speaker 1: us through the, the person of the Spirit. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I'm all for, you know, walking in the Spirit, living
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  Speaker 1: in the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, being convicted
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  Speaker 1: by the Spirit, uh, being empowered by the Spirit, you know, that,
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  Speaker 1: I think that's clearly what the Lord intended, so.
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  Speaker 1: Kathy and Paul, thank you so much for sending in
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  Speaker 1: your questions through the Pastor's perspective Facebook page using Messenger.
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  Speaker 1: And now let's go to San Diego to speak with Janice,
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  Speaker 1: who called 888-564-6173. Hello, Janice, thanks and welcome to Pastor's Perspective.
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  Speaker 1: So, thank you for taking my call. I have sort
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  Speaker 1: of a strange question, and it might be on more
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  Speaker 1: of a superstitious vein. I don't really know, but as
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  Speaker 1: a Christian, I worry about this. When good things happen
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  Speaker 1: to me, when the Lord blesses me with good things
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  Speaker 1: and I talk about them to friends, I'm thinking I shouldn't, uh,
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  Speaker 1: be talking about them out loud. Satan hears it and
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  Speaker 1: he's gonna ruin it for me. And I know God's stronger. I, I,
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  Speaker 1: I really don't know. Do I have to pray before
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  Speaker 1: I talk about my blessings? I, I just
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  Speaker 1: And bothered by that. Hmm, Pastor Brian, what do you
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  Speaker 1: say to Janice?
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  Speaker 1: Well, Janice, um,
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  Speaker 1: That you, you kinda nailed it at the beginning. Um, it,
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  Speaker 1: it is superstitious and you just need to
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  Speaker 1: Not think in those ways because, of course, that has
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  Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do with God's work in our life
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  Speaker 1: and his favor in our life, and, and of course,
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  Speaker 1: with the devil, um, you know, the devil is just
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  Speaker 1: going to do what he's gonna do regardless. And to
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  Speaker 1: a large degree, we just need to ignore him and
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  Speaker 1: get on with trusting the Lord and, uh, follow, following Jesus,
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  Speaker 1: but
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  Speaker 1: You know, the Bible says, um, let the redeemed of
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  Speaker 1: the Lord tell their story. So we're supposed to tell
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  Speaker 1: people about the blessing of God in our lives. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: that's part of, that's part of the witness, of course,
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  Speaker 1: ultimately we want to tell people about, you know, the
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  Speaker 1: cross and the resurrection and um.
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  Speaker 1: And the, uh, regeneration that the spirit brings, but we
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  Speaker 1: can start and, and should start sometimes just telling the
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  Speaker 1: story of God's goodness to us. And then among believers too,
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  Speaker 1: when we are together telling each other, uh, the blessings that,
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  Speaker 1: that God's bestowed upon us, that is faith building for
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  Speaker 1: the others.
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  Speaker 1: And so you don't want to withhold that. So, I
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  Speaker 1: think the thing the enemy might be doing here is
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  Speaker 1: just ripping you off into thinking that, you know, you
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  Speaker 1: should probably keep quiet about this, uh, lest you, you know,
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  Speaker 1: bring some sort of a, a jinx on yourself. But that,
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  Speaker 1: that is superstition. That's not gonna happen, so.
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  Speaker 1: Don't worry about that. Let the redeemed of the Lord
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  Speaker 1: tell their story.
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  Speaker 1: Does this help you, Janice?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you so much. That'll take a big burden
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  Speaker 1: off my shoulders. Oh, good, Eric, what do you think?
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  Speaker 1: Janice, uh, even the way you were asking that question,
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  Speaker 1: I just heard a woman who has a heart of gratitude,
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  Speaker 1: and I wouldn't want you to pull the reins in
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  Speaker 1: on that one bit. As Brian was saying, there's so
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  Speaker 1: many Bible verses that command us to abound in thanksgiving
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  Speaker 1: and
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  Speaker 1: And I think it's really important what he also said
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  Speaker 1: that our primary gratitude is for him sending his son
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  Speaker 1: in our place, but the blessings of even a meal today,
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  Speaker 1: and every breath and every heartbeat, and, and all the
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  Speaker 1: good things that God brings our way, he deserves credit
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  Speaker 1: for that. And, and so I wouldn't want you to
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: hesitate in the least in
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Giving thanks to God, not just even for blessings, but
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: in the midst of trials as well, knowing that he
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: will carry you through those things, and he will sustain
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you even when life feels meager. And so, so I,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want you to restrain in the least in
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the heart of gratitude that you evidently have.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Janice, thanks for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number to call us today. Gonna be
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: here till 4 o'clock and we'd love to talk to you.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Right now, let's go to Lake Forest. Here is Edgar.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pastor's Perspective, Edgar.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Hello, thank you for taking my call. So I wanted
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: to ask uh the pastors, uh, concerning capital punishment, kind
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: of struggling with it. What are we supposed to do
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: when somebody is get gets put to death, and they
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: don't actually get, they don't achieve uh putting this this
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: woman to death, that's in the news. Are we supposed
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: to pray for for forgiveness? Are we supposed to forgive them?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: What kind of, what type of prayers should we do
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: for these people?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And then the other thing was I have a prayer
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: request for myself because I'm having an endoscopy done tomorrow,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: a procedure, and so that everything goes good. But I
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: have been struggling with what do you do in a,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: in a capital punishment case. People on death row, do
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: we forgive them, ask God to forgive them, or how
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: are we supposed to deal with
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: that?
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Now, are you talking about capital punishment in general or
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: because you mentioned this woman, Krista Pike, who's been in
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: the news for the past few weeks. Are you, are
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: you specifically?
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Talking about her because she, you know, they gave her
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the two lethal injections and neither of them took and
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: she's still alive, I
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: think
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: that's, that's pretty much what started it before they were
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: about to put her to death. I prayed and then
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I said, I didn't know what, what if I did
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: something wrong, like, my God, you know, my goodness, like
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: what did I, did I pray the right thing? I
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: just asked God to forgive her, but then I thought, well,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: she did.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: So it's like, so you struggle with it's like, well,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: she murdered this girl, and then you, what do you
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: forgive her? I mean, God says to forgive, but at
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: the same time, you know, you just don't, I, I
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: don't know. I need like you, the pastors to like
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: kind of set me straight with this. Yeah,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Eric, we'll start with you. Who
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: is it that you deal with this?
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: How is it that you right?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, brother, I just wanna really affirm.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Your conscientious, earnest desire to, to do things in a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: way that's honoring to God, but also that you would
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: pray about things in the news. It's so easy to
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: get what's called compassion fatigue and just see things as
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: political or social ideas, but you're really seeing the deeper
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: realities here, and I just want to affirm that, that, that's,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: that's a wise way to live and a, and a
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: godly way to live, to, to, you obviously have a
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: tender heart and, and I want to affirm that.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: And I, I, I think it's really good to ask
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: questions about things like capital punishment. It's very easy to
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: be raised in a particular political stream and not back
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: up and question things like even war or capital punishment
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: or what a Christian view of these things are. We
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: sort of just tend to adopt whatever tradition we grew
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: up in. So I, I appreciate that you're asking that question.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: In this tragic case in the news.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: It is especially difficult because as you say, 3 times,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: they tried to execute her and it didn't work. She's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: speaking now, I guess she's, she's uh coherent and
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: And people are saying she should now be released almost
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: like she got away with it, and so let's, let's
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: let her go now. But boy, the family of, of
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the woman that she brutally tortured and killed thinks very
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: differently about that, and so,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: So, we're not, I, I don't think the purpose is
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to solve the capital punishment question from a Christian perspective,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: but how we should view justice and mercy. And I
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: think it's important to realize that you can be forgiving
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and at the same time see justice as the right thing.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And consequences as the right thing. Forgiveness doesn't mean there
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: are no consequences. Forgiveness doesn't throw justice out the window. Uh,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Caleb Flynn, who, who murdered his wife, her family offered
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: him forgiveness when he was sentenced a couple of days ago,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and they also said, and he should be punished to
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the fullest extent of the law. So the fact is
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: you can be a very forgiving person and, and get
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: a restraining order on someone because
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Because forgiveness doesn't mean trust, and it doesn't mean a
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: lack of justice.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, Edgar, what do you think before we hear from
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Pastor Brian?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm kind of, you know, still think, I
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: still wanna say like, what, what is it that when you,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: when I, when you pray for somebody like that, what
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: do you ask God? Do you say, God, forgive them? Do,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: you know, do you say, no, God, make sure that
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: they get executed. It's like, what is the right prayer for,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: for something like that?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Brian. Yeah, I, I think that um
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I, I think you can, you know.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: On, on one level, of course, you're
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Removed personally from this situation, so you know, Eric mentioned
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the family of the of the woman who was murdered.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, they, they obviously are gonna have
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: a perspective on it that you don't have or I
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: don't have. We're sort of, you know, onlookers.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: And you know, you can, you can feel compassion even
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: for people who are evil.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: And I think you could just simply say, you know,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: God have mercy and trust that God knows. And of
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: course in the end.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Anybody can be forgiven.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: But they have to be forgiven because they seek forgiveness.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: They can't, you know, it's not going to be my
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: prayer or your prayer that's going to bring forgiveness to them.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: It's going to be their own prayer, you know, crying
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: out to God for mercy. But I, I think just like,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: you know, your heart is sensitive, which is good, and
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: that you care. And so just a simple, oh God,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: have mercy, you know, that's sufficient. I don't think you
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: have to say anything else, and God knows exactly.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Um, he knows all the other details, you know, so
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I think you could just simply rest in something, um,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: like that, and I, I think, you know, you know, God,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you know, make sure they, they, you know, find a
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: better way to execute them, or, you know, that, that's
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: out of our hands. It's just like, OK, Lord, you know,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: we're just going to trust you and, and, um.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: That that's what I would say, yeah.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Uh, Brian, would you pray for Edgar? I think he
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: said he's undergoing a procedure tomorrow.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, Lord, we do pray for Edgar and we pray
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: for this procedure and um uh you know, we all
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: kind of know that whatever the procedure is, we're always
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: a little bit anxious about those things, so we pray
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: that you would take away the anxiousness and give him
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: a peace, and we pray that there would be, um,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: everything would go smoothly, and we pray that there would
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: be a good outcome in Jesus' name. Amen.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Amen. Amen. Edgar, thanks for calling in today to Pastor's Perspective,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and everyone watching and listening will be praying for you
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: as well. Almost coming up to the break, let me
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: read a quick question that was submitted online, uh, through
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: the Pastor's perspective page at Kwave.com. It's really short. It's
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: from George, who wants to know, do dogs go to heaven?
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: He specifically said dogs. He didn't mention any other pets
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: or animals, but he's just wondering about dogs. Eric, what
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: do you say?
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Depends what kind. Yeah.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: You have preferences or something? I do. I definitely do. Uh, yeah,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I heard a great answer to this kind of question
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: one time. God will ensure that anything required to make
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: you happy in heaven will be there.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I love it. A little evasive, but I think there's
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of truth to that.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I remember what I remember one time, decades ago, literally,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: so long ago, ah, somebody asked that question, and I,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I just said, yeah, you know, probably, and somebody really
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: took me to task, you know, chewed me out, kind
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: of accused me of heresy, you know, that I was
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: suggesting that a pet might be in heaven, so, but
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I hold.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: To that, I hold firmly to that. And I do
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: it on the basis of what Eric said. I think
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that that, I think that that's right. Look, yeah, there,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: there will definitely be animals in the new heavens and
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: the new earth. The, the big question is, are animals resurrected?
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: That's the question. And I, I don't have a biblical
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: basis for that.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, but, you know, we have a dog, Barnabas,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: who's 11.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: And um
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: We're sure he's gonna be in heaven because he is, um,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: he prays. I mean, he's a just a gentleman, you know,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: he's a very, he's a very godly dog, so we
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: have no doubt. Well, our dog Biscuit on most days
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: seems to be showing more fruit of the spirit than
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: And my wife, my wife, he, he offers counseling to
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: my wife. I have found her in another room complaining
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: about me to him. So, I don't know what that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: says about the levels of sanctification, but there you have it.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: That's great. George, thanks for sending in your question online.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break here on pastor's perspective.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: There's still time for you to call in.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: And ask your question, 888-564-6173. So call in, Colin, Colleen,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: everyone else. 888-564-6173 is our number. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: or Instagram, the number's right there on the bottom of
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: your screen so you can call in. There's also a
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: QR code there online, so you can scan that and
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: then you can submit your question online. We probably won't
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: see your question today, but we'll have it for
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: A future date, and if we do use it on
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the show, we will um reply to you and let
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: you know that we read your question, let you know
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: the date and the approximate time and all that other stuff,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: but call in right now, 888-564-6173. Operators are standing by. Well, just,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: just one operator, operator is standing by 888-564-6173. Back in
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: a little bit on pastor's perspective.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Hey, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: to call. We've got Pastor Brian Broderson and uh Pastor
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Eric Thomas here. Eric is also the A professor at
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: the Talbot School of Theology at Viola University. Brian is
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the pastor emeritus at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa, and we're
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: gonna be here for about another 25 minutes, 888-56.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: 461-73 is the number to call. Let's read one more
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: that was sent in online, then we'll go to the phones. Margie,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: you'll be our first call when we return. Ada in
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Chino Hills writes, My husband and I are going to
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: San Antonio in November to a Zack Williams concert. I
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: booked a room at a certain hotel because it looked
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: historic and quaint. I recently asked a local about the hotel,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and their response was,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Is that isn't that the haunted hotel by the Alamo?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I then googled the hotel, and Google confirmed that it's haunted,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: but it looks so pretty. The price was great, and
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: it's in a perfect area. But now I'm worried. Pastor Brian,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: should Ada go to this concert.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Or I'm sorry, not the concert, that should she stay
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: at this hotel.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Is Brian there? Well, oh, there he is. OK, go ahead.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: This is gonna be, I mean, you know, this is
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: gonna be, uh, very, uh, personal on, on her part, and, um,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: you know, is there an objective reason why she shouldn't
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: go there? I personally don't think there is, um, but
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: there might be a subjective reason if she's gonna go there.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: And be worried the whole time that the place is
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: haunted and not enjoy her weekend, then she probably should
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: find another hotel because then she will have the great
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: time that her and her husband are planning. Um, so, uh,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting. I mean, obviously there is such
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: a thing as the demonic realm and
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Um, there are times when there is demonic, strange demonic
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: activity in certain places, and yet, I think as believers,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: we don't want to get caught up, uh, like earlier,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: you know, when we were talking to Janice, I think, ah,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: there's other areas of superstition that we can get sucked
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: into as well, and I think a lot of times around, um,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the kind of the devil and demonic things, there, there's
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of superstition.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: And, and we don't want to be um subject to it.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Paul the Apostle leads writing to the Corinthians and ah
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: he's talking to them about eating food offered to idols,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: and he's acknowledging that, you know, these, these really, you know, they're,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: they're offering these to demons and not to God, um,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: but then he says, but an idol is nothing.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, he didn't have a big hang up.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: At one point, he finally says, you know, it's not
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: good to have a fellowship with, with um demons, so, in,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: in that particular case, it's different than what we're talking
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: about here, but there might be a little bit of overlap, so,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm, I'm interested in, in what Eric
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: has to say on this.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's really important to affirm what Brian
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: said that the spiritual realm was real, the demonic realm
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: is real, that Satan prowls around like a roaring lion
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: seeking whom he'll devour, that we have a battle raging
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: against against principalities and powers in high places. But it's
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: also true that greater is he that is in you
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: than he who's in the world, and Jesus has vanquished
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: the powers of darkness, especially in the life of the believer.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: And as I read your description of the hotel.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I probably the main reason you got such a great
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: price is because people want to stay there because they
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: hear it's haunted, which to me sounds like a great
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: reason to stay there.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: But the other thing I thought of was there may
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: be people who are interested in the occult, who would
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: want to stay at a place like that. So it's
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: not that it's haunted, but people who are drawn to
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: things like that may want to stay there. I don't know,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: but even then, I'm tempted to go there and preach
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: the gospel to those folks, so.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I would stay in the hotel, but I'm not telling
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: you what to do. Hm.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Ada, thank you so much for sending in your question
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: through the pastor's perspective page at Kwave.com. Enjoy the Zack
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Williams concert. Zack's one of the artists we play here
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: on KWave FM on the weekends. Music is back. We've
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: been doing it for 4 or 5 months now, and
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: we invite you to tune in. You can go.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: to Kwave.com to look at our schedule, and you'll see
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: when we have our Kwave praise times and also when
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: we have Bible teaching, so check that out. Back to
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: the phones now. Margie hung up. Where's Margie? I don't know,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: so we'll go to Marty in Placentia. Welcome to Pastor's perspective, Marty.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Hi there, thanks for taking my call. You bet.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, first of all, on the dogs in heaven thing,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: when I was teaching Sunday school, I went through this
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: exercise to have the kids, you know, describe the perfect
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: place to live. Out one door is a McDonald's, out
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: another door is a water park, blah blah blah, and
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: we'd do that for 15 minutes. And finally I'd say, well,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: you know, the Bible promises us that we cannot even
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: imagine how great heaven will be. So I'm of the
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: opinion that yes, our pets will be there, and I think,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I hope I can communicate with them about our time.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Together here. So I'll leave that at that. But, um,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: that's what I think about pets in heaven, and I
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: pray that it be so. Uh, but my question is
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: about baptism by the Holy Spirit. That is a very
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: good question. Sorry to interrupt, but if we, if there
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: are pets in heaven, will they have glorified bodies? Will
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: they be able to talk? Um, but that's a whole another,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: that's a rabbit hole, no pun intended, that we're not
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: going to go down today. So, Marty, go ahead. What's
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: your question?
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: OK, yeah, my question is about baptism by the Holy Spirit,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and I know that, uh, well, my story real quick,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church in Nashville, Tennessee,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: and about 12 or 13 years old, I responded to
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: an altar call by Pastor Spurlin and uh went up
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: and gave my life to the Lord, you know.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Accept that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and you
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: know whatever that can mean to a 12 or 13
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: year old is what it meant to me, but it's
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: always been in me. But about 20, maybe 30 years
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: ago on a Christian weekend event on a Saturday night, uh.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I just something happened to me and I I really
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: truly as an adult gave my life to the Lord
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and my life and my Christian life has just been
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: so different since then. I mean it's been wonderful, been so,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: so different, but uh I know there's different perspectives and
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: that's why I'm calling pastor's perspective because you know some
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: uh pastors, some leaders say, you know, Holy Spirit lives
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: in you from that moment of conversion, uh, so.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Anyway, what's your take on baptism by the Holy Spirit
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: sometime after you respond to an altar call like that,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: even 1020, 30 years, because something definitely happened to me
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: on that night that the Holy Spirit came into me,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I think. All right, Brian, you first. Well, I, I,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I just would be interested in.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Finding out, so you, as a 12 year old, you
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: went to a camp, you received Jesus.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: And then
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: 20 years later, you had this radical transformative experience. What
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: was going on between
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: That the time, were you living as a Christian, walking
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: as a Christian?
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Thinking to follow the Lord, what what was happening during
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: that period?
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I was living.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I was not in the far country, but I was
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: in the country next door. Um, I wasn't, uh, uh,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: you know, my friends were into drugs and things like that,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: and I wasn't living an ideal Christian life by any stretch,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: but I knew what I was, and I was, I
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: was being a, you know, a good person. I know
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: what that means, but not really, not really active in
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: living the Christian life.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Uh, system, and that was in church where I responded
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: to the pastor's altar call at 12 or 13 years old,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: but I went to Christian, uh, weekend, um, called the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Walk to MAS, and I've talked about that before, but
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that was about 30 years ago, and it was on
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: a Saturday night during that time we'd heard some messages
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and some prayer, and, and there were, you know, clergy
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: there and that sort of thing, but, um, I just
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: went up on the altar and just raised my hands and,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: and quite frankly.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Frankly, I was afraid to look at them because my
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: palms felt like there were flames on them. I didn't
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: want to open my eyes. In any event, something happened
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: to me that night that really changed my life forever, and,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and I feel like, feel like the Holy Spirit really
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: came into me at that point. So yeah, I don't
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: know if that answers your question. I want my wife, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: it does. Yeah, yeah. Well, that, that's interesting, and, um,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: When you were 12, you know, to the best of
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: your ability, you made a sincere commitment that did.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Affect you to, to some extent, and then you had
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: this more radical, uh, encounter, and I would definitely say
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: that you encountered the Holy Spirit. I don't think there's
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: any question about that. I think the question then just
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: comes down to, well, what do we call that? Um,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: was that a baptism of the Spirit? Was that a
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: filling of the spirit?
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Um, which to me, they almost seem like the same thing, um.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: So, I, I think it just depends on, ah, your,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: your theological persuasion, you know, so there are some who
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: would say, no, there, you know, you get everything the
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: moment of your conversion, and so there's, there's not really
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: any more of the spirit that you get at a,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: at a subsequent time, um, and then there's others that say, no, well,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: you can actually, you know, be converted.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: And yet not be filled with the Holy Spirit, and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: then there's a moment where you do have uh a
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: filling or, or maybe a baptism.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: So
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know, Pastor Chuck Smith used to say this,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: and he, he was one who would have believed in
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: what you might call like a, a, a second blessing
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: or a subsequent work of the Spirit to conversion, but
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: he would say, you know, in the end,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: The question isn't really what do we call it. The
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: real issue is, have we experienced it? And I think
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: that you're testifying that you did experience it, and that's beautiful.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: And if you want to call it a baptism of
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the spirit, I think there's biblical support for that. If
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: you want to call it a filling of the spirit, well,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: there's obviously biblical support for that as well, um.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: You know, sometimes I think, um,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: You know, theologians or theologically minded people.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Kinda wanna debate over things that in the end, it does.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that much, you know, so, so that
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: that's my perspective. Eric, what do you say?
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: So, a book I read a long time ago that
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: was really helpful for me on this question is John
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Stott's book Baptism and Fullness, and he does a great
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: job of digging in all the relevant Bible passages. And
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: there are a couple of passages that talk about baptism.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: In the life of the believer, but he, he thinks
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: that it's most helpful, and I agree with him, to
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: use the word baptism for what happens at conversion and
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: filling or fullness to talk about what happens after. And again, it,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: it's not an open and shut case, but
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I do think it's important to affirm that the spirit
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: takes over in the life of the believer. You're a
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: new creature in Christ. You were dead, now you're alive.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: You were blind, now you can see. You were in darkness,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: now you're in light. But
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Then you begin the life of a Christian, which is
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: progressive sanctification, which is the spirit taking over more and
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: more territory in your life. So, I think every believer
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: has the spirit fully, but then he gets more and
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: more of you throughout the sanctification process. And sometimes it
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: can be hard to figure out.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: What happened when and what was before that, and, and
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I think we should rejoice anytime the spirit works in
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: a way that draws us closer to God, gets us
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: in the scriptures, convicts us of sin, brings about greater holiness.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: And the big question is, am I walking in the
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: spirit today? Getting back to our first question. Sometimes discerning
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: just what happened when I was 12 or 15 or
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: 25 can be pretty tough to do, but I think
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: the most important question is, am I walking closely with
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: the Lord depending on the spirit today?
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Marty, thank you so much for your phone call on
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Pastor's Perspective at 888-564-6173. Now we'll go to Los Angeles
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: and speak with Mario. Thank you, Mario, for listening to
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Pastor's Perspective on K-wave. What's your question for Pastors Brian
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Broderson and Eric Thomas?
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, good, good afternoon, pastors. I've been, um, having these
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: thoughts about the Holy Spirit for some, for some reason,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I just started thinking about the Holy Spirit,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit in my mind, and I've been getting thoughts.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: And I've been crying out to the Lord, telling them
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: To help me not to think like this, the thoughts
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: that come into my mind. And also I had a
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: thought about killing the Holy Spirit. I don't know, I'm
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: not a killer.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: I don't say bad words. I'm a Christian.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Um, I don't know, I'm just getting this awful thoughts
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: in my mind.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And I just tell the Lord, I rebuke his thoughts
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: in the name of Jesus, and I hate them. I don't,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: I don't like them, and I've been having them for
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: a while, and I'm calling in because I'm scared if,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: if it passes me of the Holy Spirit and
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: And, and I don't want to do anything wrong. I've
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: been trying, you know, to do God's will, like, you know.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh. Brian, what do you tell Mario?
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Well, first of all, um,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: This is you, you have not blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Because the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is really ultimately,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: it's the rejection of Jesus and the work of the
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Spirit to bring us uh to Christ, and that's not
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: you because you're a believer.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: And these kind of unwanted thoughts, these are often
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: The things that the devil will do to just harass us,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: to just try to
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Give us a hard time, make our lives difficult, take
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: away our joy, uh, take away our confidence that the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Lord loves us or the Lord's, you know, working in
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: our life or God wants to use us because, you know,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: we've had these thoughts. So, you really need to just
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: reject these thoughts, just like you're doing and, and know.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: That you have not. If, if you had committed the, the,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't even care.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't think twice about it. You certainly wouldn't call
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: us and say, I've, I'm worried about this because after all,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: you don't want anything to do with God. That's the
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: person who has blasphemed the spirit. The great Victorian preacher,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Charles Spurgeon.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: He was plagued by these kinds of things at a
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: particular time in his life, and he had really, um,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: terrible thoughts that would just sort of attack his mind
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: and blasphemous thoughts, and he, he was really, really discouraged
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: by it. He was really down, and he wondered himself,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: how could I really be a Christian if I have
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: these thoughts in my head.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: So he confided in his grandfather who was actually a
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: preacher as well, and his grandfather just asked him a
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: simple question. He said, Do you delight in these thoughts?
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: And Spurgeon said, Oh no, I loathe them. I hate them.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: And his grandfather said, then they're not your thoughts. Don't
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: own them. Send them back to where they came from.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: They came from the devil. Send them back to the devil.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: And that helped him. It didn't mean that the thoughts
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: never occurred again, it just means that meant that now
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: he ah was able to contend with them because he
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: had an understanding of the nature of them. Eric.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Uh, that's a great answer. Uh, I think it's important
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: to understand that whole concept of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: the unforgivable sin, in light of the context of the
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: passages in the Gospels where they occur. Matthew 12 is
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: one of them, and it's in the context of the
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Pharisees attributing the work of Jesus the Messiah to the devil.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: And rejecting the Son of Man in their very presence,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: and Jesus is saying, if, if that's how you respond
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: to the work of the Spirit when the Messiah is
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: right in your presence, you, you're not gonna find forgiveness.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: And so it boils down to what you do with
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: the Son of Man when the Spirit of God is
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: at work through his ministry, and it doesn't sound to
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: me at all like you're in that situation in the least,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: or like Brian said, you wouldn't be so concerned about it.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Mario, does this help you?
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Uh yes, pastor. Thank, thank you so much and um
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: thank you for answering my question and I, I just,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: you know, if you get to pray for me, that'll
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: be so great.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, for sure, and everybody watching and listening will also
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: be praying for you, Mario there in Los Angeles. Thanks
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: for your phone call today here on Pastor's Perspective. Now
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: we'll go to Dylan and Eliso Viejo, who's listening to Kwave.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: What's your question, Dylan?
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Hi, um, so I
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Are you there, Dylan? I think we just lost you.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Dylan, did you press mute on your phone?
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Did you disconnect your Bluetooth? Did you drive through a tunnel.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: There you are. OK, what's your question?
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: OK, um, so I was, when I was growing up,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: I was a Christian, and, uh, I left the church
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: for over a decade. I wanted nothing to do with
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: the church.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: And um
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: I gave my life again to Christ about 2 years ago,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: and
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: I was contemplating, uh,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Now I was baptized when I was a kid.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: But now I feel like I'm I'm in an entirely
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: different understanding of faith, and, you know, I'm just at
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: a point where I feel that I need to cleanse
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: some of the stuff from my past, and I don't
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: know if baptism is something that I should do or
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: What do you guys think?
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Eric, what do you say to Dylan?
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: So Dylan, do you think you were a believer and
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: were you baptized in a, a gospel preaching church back then?
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Yes
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: OK, then I, I don't think there's a need to
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: be baptized again. I think it sounds to me like
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: what you're longing for is an opportunity to express in
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: a body of believers a fresh start, your beginning. And
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: I would, I would look for an opportunity to do that.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I would even ask for an opportunity to, to.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: To do that publicly, to give, give witness to the
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: work of God in your life and that you are
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: committed to him and his people and you love Jesus
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: and his bride and want to walk with him in
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: the midst of God's people and it sounds like that
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: sort of thing, a testimony that people in your church
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: are able to hear where you express this new chapter
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: of your life.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: I is going to be the thing that I think
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: you're longing for. I, I, I don't think being baptized again.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: It is necessary or even
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Um, really appreciates what happens at baptism. Um, to some degree,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: then I would be baptized every time I confess a
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: sin and move to a new place in my relationship
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: with the Lord. So I don't think it's baptism you need,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: but maybe witnessing to the work of God in your
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: life before the people in your church. What do you
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: think of that, Dylan?
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: I, I appreciate that, yeah, cause I, I know that it,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: you know, being baptized once, you know, I've heard you
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: guys talk about that, and it seems that that should
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: only happen once.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: I just thought I wanted to make sure that
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Me having abandoned everything for so long that that wasn't
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: something that was necessary, but you're right, I think that
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: having some sort of a
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Public feeling of that faith would really, would really, you know.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Help
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Mhm. Brian, what do you tell Dylan?
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think just like Eric said, I think, you know,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: maybe just speak with your pastor, just tell him what's
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: on your heart, just see if there's an opportunity maybe
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: uh for you to do that. I think that would
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: be wonderful for you and I think a lot of
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: people would, I'm sure they'd really be blessed by it too, so, and, and,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: you know, just know this too, um.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Look, you're, you're with Jesus and he's with you, and he's,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: he's not saying, OK, well, now you really got to
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: prove it by getting baptized again or any of that,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: you know, he, he knows your heart, and when you
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: turned to him in repentance and ask him to forgive
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: you and restore you, he did. And now it's time
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: to just keep pressing in and pressing on and keep
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: growing and keep following the Lord.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Brian, I think I heard Char recently at, uh, Calvary
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Costa Mesa. He was teaching a message, and, uh, he
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: was kind of talking about this, and I don't want
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: to take his words out of context or anything or
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: misquote him or anything, but I think he said that,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I think it was towards the end of the service
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: right before communion, and he said there might be people
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: here who, you know, walked away from the Lord, and,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: and now they're wondering about rededicating their lives, and, well,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: this is, this is where you can come to it,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: come to the table and, uh, partake in communion.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that we do weekly,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: you know, we do, uh, partake of the Lord's Supper
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: each week, and we use it as an opportunity for
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: those who just want to recalibrate maybe their lives with
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: the Lord or, you know, just want to really sort
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: of more publicly give thanks and um yeah, any, any
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: of those things can be very, very precious and it
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: doesn't have to be.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Uh, overt, it can be more personal, but if you
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: feel like you want to make a public declaration, of course,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: that
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: That is what we're called to that as well. Yeah.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Eric, any closing thoughts? Give you about a minute. No,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: I think, I think that's excellent. I, I, I, I
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: just think it's so important to take our experiences as
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: individuals before the Lord into the context of the fellowship
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: of the saints, which is a tremendous means of grace
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: he's given us and bring those two together.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Dylan, thanks for your phone call today here on Pastor's Perspective,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: and that is all the time we have on today's episode.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: If you're still on hold, so sorry that we couldn't
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: get to you. Please call us back tomorrow and uh
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: we'll try to put you on tomorrow. Remember the phone
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: lines open about 7 minutes before 3 o'clock. If you're
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: watching on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, or Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, or
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: what's the other one? Oh, that's it.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: We only live stream on 3 Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: If you're watching their MySpace, yes, yes, uh, and the
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: video will be available later at Blockbuster Video. I don't know. No,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I'm joking. Um, give us a call tomorrow. God bless
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: you guys. Eric Thomas, thank you so much for joining
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: us today.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: From the Talbot School of Theology at Viola University, and
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: uh Eric's also a teaching pastor at Grace EV Free
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Church in La Morada, and uh Brian Broderson from Echoesof Mercy.com,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: we'll see you tomorrow. God bless you all. Thanks for
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: watching and listening to Pastor's Perspective.