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Why Europe is Ahead on Impact · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You are now listening
• 0:01
  Speaker 0: to the EU startups podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this episode of these stars podcast as always.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I'm your host and editor David Sanne Garcia.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: today, I chatted with Jack Mardak.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: He's the co-founder of the HR platform oyster.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Now Easter has European roots But it is a largely remote company.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: As much jack And i were able to chat over kind of the global aspect of the company as well where began and his own kind of entrepreneurial thesis.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: As he progressed through the company, especially his role is a chief impact officer.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: that's taken in large part.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: what Jack does nowadays has much as an entrepreneur as an author.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: with this book impact unleashed we even have an in road that will both be at the me out summit late November in Hungary And we chatted about so much of his intervention at the summit, what he's preparing to talk impact focus from companies as much as they have been able to fulfill them, and just the overall thesis of how he sees it progressing.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And what he wants to see happen in the next couple years especially when we're talking about Europe versus US.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: So I hope you are
• 1:40
  Speaker 0: looking forward.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Great, great.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: As we chatted before I click to record here... ...I'm looking forward to our mutual journey in about a month at the Me Out Summit and i know you're gonna have a chat over there that hopefully am going be involved as well.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: so this is maybe good taste before we get to hear what you can be chatting over there in Hungary.
• 2:04
  Speaker 0: Fantastic!
• 2:05
  Speaker 0: preview between us to see if we like talking together, maybe we can continue that in Budapest in a few weeks.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure we will!
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: So on that note before we kind of get into the meat-of-the interview we got ahead of this today...I was hoping they could give us some background as to who you are and what you've done?
• 2:24
  Speaker 0: Jack Mardak – I am an Impact Entrepreneur & Author.
• 2:29
  Speaker 0: I cofounded a company called Oyster which achieve both unicorn status and b-corp certification one of the very small number companies to do that.
• 2:42
  Speaker 0: I became very impassioned by the challenge making a for profit company accountable actually deliver on promise results impact, i become chief impact officer at what gave me an opportunity really lean into that work and answer those questions.
• 3:02
  Speaker 0: How does a for-profit company really walk this walk?
• 3:06
  Speaker 0: Answering that question is the substance of the book I wrote, Impact Unleashed Building Businesses That Scale Positive Change available at impactunleashed.org.
• 3:19
  Speaker 0: This year.
• 3:20
  Speaker 0: i've been busy bringing that message to prospective founders MBA students investors all around the world, it's the reason I'll be in Budapest in a few weeks.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Great!
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: So then walk me through little bit kind of your journey to where you are now because if mentioned uh...you know involved him with Boyster Chief Impact Officer.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: You're an author and even I saw a former head growth at Prezi which in high school saved my ass on a few uh, school projects.
• 3:53
  Speaker 0: Thank you.
• 3:53
  Speaker 0: let me ask your question did you ever pay for your subscription?
• 3:56
  Speaker 0: No
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: no
• 4:00
  Speaker 0: exactly that's funny sure.
• 4:03
  Speaker 0: um so I'm a son of Latin American immigrants born in Queens New York raised there Spanish is actually my first language.
• 4:15
  Speaker 0: And as a result of being the son of immigrants, I always had this sense of... The luck of geography how where you're born can be so determinative what your life is.
• 4:28
  Speaker 0: My grandmother used to tease me.
• 4:30
  Speaker 0: She'd say things like if your mom had missed the plane Your life would very different which was absurd because my parents met in New York and there were no pregnant moms ever in a position to miss a plane.
• 4:42
  Speaker 0: that would have resulted on me being born anywhere but the United States.
• 4:47
  Speaker 0: But, um... That was kind of the point and as a son of Latin American immigrants like many I had uh.. A future prescribed for me.
• 4:58
  Speaker 0: Like my mother literally told people this is my son he's gonna be a doctor.
• 5:03
  Speaker 0: And i stayed on that wagon For ten years plus until in the middle of pre-med at NYU, my mom got sick and I dropped out.
• 5:17
  Speaker 0: And there was really the first opportunity that i ever had to make a choice myself about my career.
• 5:24
  Speaker 0: And um...I went into banking.
• 5:26
  Speaker 0: uh..in New York.
• 5:27
  Speaker 0: it was my first career!
• 5:28
  Speaker 0: Uh....I worked on both the credit and equity side.
• 5:31
  Speaker 0: It was fantastic education additional layer of knowledge for me, as I was learning from the sciences and mathematics.
• 5:42
  Speaker 0: This gave me a new set of systems to think about an understanding of markets at systems—of companies as actors within those systems —and it was my job sort-to try to predict the future... ...of a company or industry.
• 5:57
  Speaker 0: It also made me a real badass in Excel which would later have benefits But I didn't love it.
• 6:05
  Speaker 0: David, It felt kind of hollow to me was...I wanted to make things and so i made the leap in the late nineties To move to California from New York to The Bay Area where really I got So lucky that the skills And the perspective That I've been building through an academic life In the sciences and mathematics A chapter working in banking had equipped me with a certain set of skills that frankly, I wasn't quite sure what to do with.
• 6:36
  Speaker 0: but Following instinct and following signals like you know trends this kind of job is hot.
• 6:43
  Speaker 0: It's kinda job Is not so hot?
• 6:45
  Speaker 0: II fitted myself into growth marketing Before that even had a name and that turned out to be fantastically lucky.
• 6:54
  Speaker 0: just as that that discipline was becoming really super hot.
• 7:01
  Speaker 0: So I was eminently employable for a while, which is fantastic!
• 7:05
  Speaker 0: That allowed me to choose where i wanted to go work and got lucky to pick some great companies.
• 7:14
  Speaker 0: watch them you know...go from powerpoint to company.
• 7:19
  Speaker 0: when you see founders do it few times You start learning a keen student of how companies worked, you know seeing that sort of invented fresh each time.
• 7:32
  Speaker 0: Became passionate about...about that evolution.
• 7:35
  Speaker 0: the evolution of knowledge work The influence of technology on How we Work.
• 7:40
  Speaker 0: all That stuff really became super interesting to me On that side Of my career the for-profit side.
• 7:48
  Speaker 0: real lucky as I said i was involved ultimately in for exits, three acquisitions and one IPO.
• 7:57
  Speaker 0: There weren't all successes but I got a good look at what success looked like as a venture funded startup in parallel with that As a lot of people do when they reach certain threshold level Of success is i look For ways to give back And for me That took the form of volunteerism at San Francisco area non-profits.
• 8:24
  Speaker 0: I got to look under the kimono closely of a number different nonprofits, i joined the board of a nonprofit where i remain for six years.
• 8:34
  Speaker 0: so in parallel with my for profit career i'm developing this sort of other set of experiences at a different kind of organization that whose purpose is of course you know trying And that was really the genesis of a bigger question, you know what's the right way to bring money capital and people talent together.
• 9:01
  Speaker 0: To try work on meaningful problems in my experience with nonprofits left me very satisfied.
• 9:09
  Speaker 0: my heart is absolutely filled from network.
• 9:12
  Speaker 0: But unfortunately, I had to conclude as is rather the cliche indictment of nonprofits.
• 9:19
  Speaker 0: They have trouble scaling they really can't ever get out from under the existential urgency of continuous fundraising.
• 9:26
  Speaker 0: and so i had this question huh you know what's the right way?
• 9:30
  Speaker 0: So fast forward to a twenty nineteen where my co-founder Tony and I Really came at This exercise of entrepreneurship this effort to create a company with an unusual duality in mind, right?
• 9:47
  Speaker 0: So we saw both the opportunity to create large potentially very valuable business and HR tech category that was just being born.
• 9:58
  Speaker 0: And so doing a machine if you will scalable social impact into form of creating access and salary flows.
• 10:10
  Speaker 0: they have not historically enjoyed access to that kind of knowledge work.
• 10:15
  Speaker 0: So, that convergence was for me personally catalytic right?
• 10:20
  Speaker 0: I mean it's like the separate tracks in my experience purpose driven non-profit work or profit scale oriented work.
• 10:30
  Speaker 0: bringing those two things together with a question can we create in the form of a for-profit company.
• 10:40
  Speaker 0: And, I think was yes and so... For like last three years or so really inspired to not just celebrate that as our success but share it with world symbolically has an answer to question can a company do well?
• 11:00
  Speaker 0: Do good?
• 11:02
  Speaker 0: Yes!
• 11:04
  Speaker 0: It's the basis.
• 11:05
  Speaker 0: my book which is written four founders who wants to build with sort of impact in mind as a design challenge from the very beginning and this has all my passion right now.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's interesting on the level that...I talked many founders whose actual business proposal is impact-based but infact you don't talk so much about not having any business proposals yet still have an impact focus because oyster obviously is HR.
• 11:34
  Speaker 0: They call that greenwashing.
• 11:35
  Speaker 0: You know, I mean everybody's and God bless right?
• 11:38
  Speaker 0: Good intentions are beautiful but there is a difference here between something that has declared And something That Is Proven That Is Shown.
• 11:48
  Speaker 0: So my whole answer to How Do We Do This Is Focus On Evidence.
• 11:53
  Speaker 0: Founders should focus on Of Course Creating A Viable As Big A Business as Possible One That Ideally Generates Impact Through Some Mechanism We call that an impact thesis measure.
• 12:06
  Speaker 0: That develop a body of evidence around that claim.
• 12:11
  Speaker 0: and then Founders should be looking sorry investors Should be looking for founders that have done that the way they connect this through evidence, right?
• 12:23
  Speaker 0: we published our metrics very early in life of oyster.
• 12:27
  Speaker 0: that is a rigor That I think was important, you know to make that public commitment.
• 12:32
  Speaker 0: So these are our numbers This is this is our story?
• 12:35
  Speaker 0: This is our proof.
• 12:36
  Speaker 0: i think um, that Is a new muscle that needs To be created in most companies and it's an important next chapter As the next step beyond The esg chapter that i think.
• 12:50
  Speaker 0: no we're coming to a close And I can talk about that transition for a long time, but I won't pull the thread here.
• 13:01
  Speaker 0: But there's lot to be said about where we are civilizationally in the debate four-profit companies good or evil and that really important moment.
• 13:12
  Speaker 0: so it is part of my calling ,part of inspiration from message i'm bringing.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: So then what do you say to people that might respond?
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: To where you're talking about right now and say well isn't this more important for large corporations to be doing so, You know take meta or something big like that.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Isn't the impact of The Impact thesis More notable there than it is first?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: startups who maybe have five people And are dealing with early funding.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: oh
• 13:45
  Speaker 0: so smart so wise a question David.
• 13:48
  Speaker 0: Of course When when undertaken in the way that I propose which is that impact shouldn't be a separate decision.
• 13:57
  Speaker 0: It shouldn't clean up days on the beach or even donating profits to charity, all of those things are great.
• 14:04
  Speaker 0: but just to be clear what we're talking about is designing a mechanism through which the business itself—through its normal operation generates impact social and environmental in some way.
• 14:18
  Speaker 0: so naturally if that's The bigger the impact.
• 14:25
  Speaker 0: And so scale is important here, right?
• 14:29
  Speaker 0: It's that non-profit problem.
• 14:30
  Speaker 0: it's one of the reasons for profit.
• 14:33
  Speaker 0: vehicles are so useful in the pursuit of impact Is their potential For scale and they have a builtin signal That says its working In the form of revenue.
• 14:46
  Speaker 0: So at point view Its natural we should try to make as many big companies Impact machines as possible.
• 14:55
  Speaker 0: Of course, the challenge is inertia.
• 14:57
  Speaker 0: companies that already exist That have not been operating in this way are much more difficult to tune and adjust.
• 15:06
  Speaker 0: although it Is possible where there's a will?
• 15:08
  Speaker 0: There is absolutely away.
• 15:09
  Speaker 0: but But it is a different problem than building A company this way from The blank sheet of paper stage which is really the opportunity.
• 15:18
  Speaker 0: And so the hope David is that those companies don't stay at just five people But they reach a significant scale, and in so doing that their impact reaches a significant skill.
• 15:31
  Speaker 0: Great question!
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Practicality speaking then... What have you seen it be the biggest challenges when it comes to company adopting an Impact Thesis?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Whether its startup or maybe larger company at later stage of funding?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: what do think is hardest part for them?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: get into practice?
• 15:51
  Speaker 0: Yeah, so for an existing company there's a lot to unravel.
• 15:55
  Speaker 0: There's a lots of unwind and part of that organizational inertia rests with the ESG chapter right?
• 16:04
  Speaker 0: And now I'll talk about it in a little bit.
• 16:06
  Speaker 0: So ESG is a broad organizing framework consisting partly regulations, consisting partly consumer expectations, some number of companies who are legitimately interested in being good corporate actors, right?
• 16:27
  Speaker 0: And before that we had more diffuse things like CSR.
• 16:32
  Speaker 0: So I would say ESG is maybe twenty years old or so and it did great work!
• 16:40
  Speaker 0: It's the reason.
• 16:42
  Speaker 0: as many as have a consciousness about questions like carbon footprint and board diversity, what are you doing for your people?
• 16:53
  Speaker 0: And so these aren't invalid answers to the question.
• 16:59
  Speaker 0: What constitutes of good corporate actor?
• 17:01
  Speaker 0: but they're not whole answer that's key thing.
• 17:04
  Speaker 0: there is no whole answer.
• 17:05
  Speaker 0: So part of inertia within established companies getting them to think differently like away from what I call the scorecard, right?
• 17:16
  Speaker 0: Because you could think of ESG as a scorecard.
• 17:18
  Speaker 0: You know great important things but how much can a score card that is the same for our software company As an ice cream company tell us about What that specific Company actually does in the world?
• 17:33
  Speaker 0: so it's not The whole picture.
• 17:35
  Speaker 0: So the new POV That needs to be awakened within existing companies Is what your company actually does in the world, good and bad.
• 17:46
  Speaker 0: Because it's not just show us the good stuff but accountability for the harmful consequences of the operation of your business especially at significant scale.
• 17:57
  Speaker 0: so this is a new POV.
• 17:59
  Speaker 0: It may not be entirely comfortable For some leadership sets But I think that The real opportunity is for companies that are prepared to develop this muscle.
• 18:11
  Speaker 0: And by this muscle, I mean tell us how your business touches the world right?
• 18:18
  Speaker 0: Claim a stakeholder as we did... We said hey people in the developing world were trying to make their lives better and so over time we did research ...we actually asked them and it was amazing not just have like aggregate metrics because into the emerging world, we tallied the percentage of emerging market workers on the platform.
• 18:47
  Speaker 0: Of great.
• 18:48
  Speaker 0: aggregate numbers are absolutely important but really it's the individual stories hearing from The Stakeholder you said in your impact thesis whose life You're trying to make better to hear From them that worked.
• 19:01
  Speaker 0: and so I think for companies That Are prepared To create this new muscle of storytelling and evidence generation, there will be market rewards.
• 19:13
  Speaker 0: We know that consumers Gen Z and Millennials particularly as they are the signalers of future behavior tell us overwhelmingly that they're ready to support companies who do good.
• 19:27
  Speaker 0: They're ready.
• 19:27
  Speaker 0: The problem is nobody knows what it means.
• 19:30
  Speaker 0: What does a company look like?
• 19:32
  Speaker 0: And so It gives consumers who were ready these kinds of companies a way in, away through the cynicism.
• 19:41
  Speaker 0: The disbelief.
• 19:42
  Speaker 0: because it is also millennials and Genzita tell us that their disbelief, their skepticism on this claims are super high.
• 19:54
  Speaker 0: so my macro thesis about this company's build-on ESG foundation and enter this new territory of unique storytelling about their unique business model, furnishing evidence ever in a continuous way through an impact report.
• 20:12
  Speaker 0: Through story telling.
• 20:14
  Speaker 0: I think these are going to be the companies that win This next chapter And there's a lot of latent behavior.
• 20:22
  Speaker 0: It isn't just consumers who're ready support these companies.
• 20:25
  Speaker 0: We have something like two trillion dollars in self-described impact funds, right?
• 20:32
  Speaker 0: These are investors that are saying In some way That they're interested in funding and finding companies.
• 20:39
  Speaker 0: They have this potential for both commercial success value creation but also scalable Impact.
• 20:46
  Speaker 0: it's a hard thing to find But I think the way that um...that overall system works is To focus on evidence.
• 20:55
  Speaker 0: ultimately those those investors should want to show evidence to their LPs of impact as opposed just checking a box because the company operates in certain sector.
• 21:08
  Speaker 0: So, with unknown reality or little known reality these two trillion dollars and an impact fund money is that they're unified intention.
• 21:19
  Speaker 0: you know I believe it's largely good but methodologically super fragment.
• 21:26
  Speaker 0: What what constitutes an impact investment over here is very different from?
• 21:30
  Speaker 0: What constitutes one over there and I am to them.
• 21:33
  Speaker 0: I suggest that the way through all that noise is focus on evidence Focus on truth celebrate The necessarily unique and individual stories, you need can individual impact feces of these companies.
• 21:47
  Speaker 0: That's what you want to celebrate not their score on some general scorecard.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Okay Well, you've covered a lot there.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: So I guess...I'm gonna have to pick and choose here what kind of bid to prod Johan but i think just on this final point You could talk about investors amazed.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: is it good moment?
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: To get a little bit more into depth on that?
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: It's something they learned About Just..i Think last week was Something Called A Vice Clause That Some Investors Have And It Impedes Them From Investing In Certain Kinds Of Companies Are Involved in Certain Kind Industries Tobacco Alcohol pornography, right?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Should there then investors have a focus on having some sort of impact clause?
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: and the much larger focus that isn't just here's a fund for impact but saying every investor needs to have Some kind of clause.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: That says if I'm investing in you it means You Have A Real Impact Attitude.
• 22:46
  Speaker 0: Beautiful!
• 22:46
  Speaker 0: It is a beautiful suggestion David And you hit it Right On The Head.
• 22:53
  Speaker 0: There's already this effort to create rigidity and constraint around where the money goes, so as to try do good.
• 23:04
  Speaker 0: And in your example it is like you are trying to do good by making impossible to invest in quote harmful or vice industries.
• 23:13
  Speaker 0: that one way.
• 23:15
  Speaker 0: I would love see there should be more formalization of the commitment to certain kinds of companies via a specific definition.
• 23:27
  Speaker 0: what impact looks like.
• 23:28
  Speaker 0: so that's lovely suggestion.
• 23:31
  Speaker 0: i hope that some investor hears it and is inspired to visit them.
• 23:37
  Speaker 0: The constraints they place on their own check writing,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Hopefully and I think that kind of brings me to the other point of it.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Kind of topics you've been covering right now It's the customer public side of things, alright?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: So we're talking about money And where flows and how it flows.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: But then the question is also the public in how much they care.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Now just want a cut touch on the fact That there does seem to be at least if we're Talking generally widely globally A bit of like Not disinterest, but not very happy with the way this scorecard has turned out in recent years and kind of the greenwashing attitude.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: a lot companies.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: So where do you see?
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: The public.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: right now You can talk about this specifically through what you've seen an oyster.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: But it can be more generally as well in the sense of What does the public to?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: they even trust companies that say oh we're focused on social We're focussed on environmental impact.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: It feels like there's been corroded.
• 24:35
  Speaker 0: I've called the moment that we're in broadly, the ESG impasse.
• 24:42
  Speaker 0: Right?
• 24:43
  Speaker 0: And so there's a sense of like what next feeling being a bit stuck as companies aren't entirely clear on what good corporate behavior looks like and for that reason they don't have proof yet these are making those commitments Leads to market rewards, right?
• 25:06
  Speaker 0: Because that's part of this.
• 25:08
  Speaker 0: We want to say the companies hey you know if You do this If you are interested in meeting a definition Of being a good corporate actor and here I'll mention The B Corp certification which i think is an important Part of that definition.
• 25:27
  Speaker 0: it was for Oyster.
• 25:28
  Speaker 0: It's reason we started working on it Right away.
• 25:36
  Speaker 0: There should be ultimately the answer for these companies who make these commitments and make these investments that this pays off.
• 25:42
  Speaker 0: And so it should payoff in consumer preference, it should payoff in investor preference, It should pay-off in Who they attract to go work with them?
• 25:53
  Speaker 0: You know people should be... So all of those things should be manifest.
• 25:58
  Speaker 0: somehow They aren't.
• 25:59
  Speaker 0: The reason is exactly the problem With the scorecard which is that it doesn't take into account the full effects of a corporate organism.
• 26:11
  Speaker 0: What does this company actually doing in the world?
• 26:15
  Speaker 0: In twenty-twenty five, there's a company called Dr.
• 26:19
  Speaker 0: Bronner based here and in the San Diego area they make soap products... And their super committed to impact and walking the walk as ever.
• 26:35
  Speaker 0: and in In twenty-twenty five because they saw other companies getting certified that Were clearly harming there were the mechanisms through which these companies at scale we're doing harm Where they felt public and self evident.
• 26:54
  Speaker 0: And so They said, you know how can it be?
• 26:57
  Speaker 0: How could how can how can we have a certification That puts a blind eye to these true effects?
• 27:04
  Speaker 0: and, uh...to their credit B Lab did evolve.
• 27:09
  Speaker 0: Their standards a short time later I think because we needed it-we need a new answer.
• 27:16
  Speaker 0: what constitutes um..a corporate citizen?
• 27:20
  Speaker 0: So the unlock as i suggested earlier is for this companies stand up a new muscle To start there unique storytelling As way reach consumers to reaching investors.
• 27:33
  Speaker 0: And you know, let's call that the chapter of impact.
• 27:36
  Speaker 0: Right?
• 27:36
  Speaker 0: The chapter...the Chapter Of Evidence.
• 27:40
  Speaker 0: I was in Bentonville Arkansas a couple weeks ago at the Consumer Impact Summit and it was my first time addressing conference audience.
• 27:51
  Speaker 0: That wasn't an usual venture-funded technology startup Miliu.
• 27:55
  Speaker 0: These are people who put things on shelves right?
• 27:58
  Speaker 0: And i bring exactly this message to them because these companies that aren't just putting things on shelves, but they're trying to succeed.
• 28:06
  Speaker 0: On the strength of being a good company you know.
• 28:10
  Speaker 0: so be corpse and other companies in their ilk as I like to say companies are already leaning into them.
• 28:17
  Speaker 0: i gave precisely this answer esg great But turn page or add more bricks to wall.
• 28:24
  Speaker 0: focus your unique story Focus on your unique evidence bring it back And these should be the things that result in those market rewards finally accreting to this set of companies.
• 28:40
  Speaker 0: That are so ready, right?
• 28:42
  Speaker 0: So The impasse is uncertainty on the corporate side about what constitutes his behavior lack of clarity amongst consumers around the claims and cynicism because years of greenwashing On the investor's side fragmented methodology it hasn't agreed yet on what's important, right?
• 29:03
  Speaker 0: So evidence-proof specificity is the thing that brings all this together.
• 29:09
  Speaker 0: My view...
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Well speaking of your view I think there's something I want to hear from you specifically because And you have so much experience in US based and U.S market, but then even Oyster itself has a great European footprint and European roots So kind of.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: with that in mind globally speaking how do you see Europe?
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: In terms of impact?
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: focus startups measuring up against the u.s.. Is it something thats addressed to your book?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Do look at global trends when you're talking about different markets.
• 29:49
  Speaker 0: Yeah Great question.
• 29:52
  Speaker 0: And so this perspective, as you described I'm getting from traveling around being invited to conferences and rooms and other conversations that are specifically about what
• 30:07
  Speaker 0: U.S.,
• 30:07
  Speaker 0: which is the comparison right?
• 30:09
  Speaker 0: So one basis of comparison where you might say Europe thinks it has to catch up.
• 30:20
  Speaker 0: But they feel like, you know where are our trillion dollar companies?
• 30:24
  Speaker 0: How come we're not spawning as many unicorns?
• 30:28
  Speaker 0: why do European founders leave to go the United States.
• 30:33
  Speaker 0: And so I was lucky to be invited to this kind of posh lawn party in Madrid back in June and They had this casual panel discussion.
• 30:45
  Speaker 0: You know three European luminaries.
• 30:47
  Speaker 0: one of them was Enrico Letta former Prime Minister of Italy.
• 30:52
  Speaker 0: and he said He said And the question they're answering is can Europe scale right?
• 30:58
  Speaker 0: Um, and he says well there's three problems.
• 31:01
  Speaker 0: This number-one Is financial.
• 31:04
  Speaker 0: we don't know how to fund.
• 31:06
  Speaker 0: Where if we have a hundred million euro Fund will make One million euro bets.
• 31:14
  Speaker 0: We won't be there at the growth stage.
• 31:17
  Speaker 0: The adjacent question is you know, how do we close?
• 31:20
  Speaker 0: The the growth-stage funding gap?
• 31:22
  Speaker 0: right to this idea that That part of the risk aversion Is evident in the manner Of funding and certain kinds of stages.
• 31:34
  Speaker 0: don't find the money.
• 31:35
  Speaker 0: This point one.
• 31:37
  Speaker 0: point two he says his regulations.
• 31:40
  Speaker 0: so He says, we have to continue the work of getting laws out-of-the way of corporations.
• 31:50
  Speaker 0: And he cites this specific example from The Netherlands where for example in The Netherlands if you fire someone and pay them a year can imagine an effective start up.
• 32:04
  Speaker 0: at that point I find myself thinking really interesting is people's heads.
• 32:12
  Speaker 0: He say they're risk averse, the founders wait for too much signal and way to long... People don't like new wealth.
• 32:22
  Speaker 0: so I hadn't heard that one before.
• 32:24
  Speaker 0: but can you imagine leaving as founder because your culture negatively reinforces your success?
• 32:32
  Speaker 0: So those are three things.
• 32:33
  Speaker 0: But what stuck with me was regulation piece cause.
• 32:36
  Speaker 0: after hearing him you know, we need to continue get the law out of way of corporations.
• 32:44
  Speaker 0: I'm looking at that for now from The American Side where in the last seven years or so since the pandemic We've seen a radical transformation Of corporate behavior.
• 32:59
  Speaker 0: That is new and i don't think we talk about enough.
• 33:04
  Speaker 0: I Think there's unprecedented exploitation of the consumer.
• 33:10
  Speaker 0: You know, I love the word end shitification where we have so many products that are twenty percent smaller but fifty-percent more expensive.
• 33:20
  Speaker 0: and just this idea.
• 33:22
  Speaker 0: let's see what can get away with?
• 33:24
  Speaker 0: And on the employee side it used to be less than a decade ago that if you were a big company doing a big layoff, come crying on Bloomberg and show your numbers.
• 33:39
  Speaker 0: And say we did everything we could but there's really no other way
• 33:43
  Speaker 0: forward.".
• 33:44
  Speaker 0: That used to be the necessity whereas now Jack Dorsey wakes up dispatches an essay on Claude and fires for four thousand people.
• 33:56
  Speaker 0: We're living in world where now they are most profitable.
• 34:00
  Speaker 0: companies are seeing what they can get away with.
• 34:05
  Speaker 0: And I characterize that as broadly exploitative and predatory, so for Europe to say hey let's get the law out of the way makes me say hold on a second!
• 34:21
  Speaker 0: Of course this part of America versus European comparison is the general notion that Europe has said more residually socialistic Right?
• 34:32
  Speaker 0: And that's not bad, because say in some of the residual framework and some of those socialistic frameworks are protections you may want to just throw out window.
• 34:45
  Speaker 0: In pursuit a better ratio between GDP and funded company value which I think is big lens.
• 34:54
  Speaker 0: but look at how much economic power we have.
• 34:56
  Speaker 0: why!
• 34:57
  Speaker 0: We had money.
• 34:58
  Speaker 0: So that is a caution, I would say to Europe.
• 35:05
  Speaker 0: On the one hand careful what you throw out of window.
• 35:07
  Speaker 0: on the regulatory side these may be important protections.
• 35:12
  Speaker 0: look at whats happening in US and also the bright side.
• 35:19
  Speaker 0: for those very reasons Europe has much more advanced in flowing capital to impactful for-profit companies than the United States.
• 35:29
  Speaker 0: So that is the other side of the coin, I think that the most advanced impact investors... The methodology's very fragmented but there are a few places where they're doing it right and so largely in Europe.
• 35:49
  Speaker 0: There's reason of this movement to mobilize business as a force for positive change.
• 35:59
  Speaker 0: There's the reason why that is more energetic, more advanced in Europe.
• 36:05
  Speaker 0: and so that something to celebrate.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: In an attempt to keep my objective journalistic hat on I won't offer thoughts but I wholeheartedly agree, i'll leave it at that.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: You hear all kinds of different takes on the subject from entrepreneurs to investors and people involved in the logistics of a company.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: you know everybody has a different take on US vs Europe debate how we're measuring up.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: so its very interesting because yours isn't as common as should be.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: my opinion most lean towards the idea of europe is behind.
• 36:44
  Speaker 0: Well, now we know what the short-ocean media clip will be.
• 36:48
  Speaker 0: Yeah
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: you're right editor clips that and everything is doing it right now.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: so in this sake of time here I do want to wrap up but i think a final question which i think is very convenient is kind of going back to The Very First Thing We Mentioned Which Is Me Out Summit.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Now Do You Just Want To Touch On That Quickly?
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Because Uh...I Wanna Hear A Little Bit About Why you're coming to that?
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: And as I understand it, You are going be having a chat with Hungary's first B-Corp.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Now kind of curious what the initiative has been behind That and what your sort of hoping To get across through them.
• 37:24
  Speaker 0: So me out is an important Ecosystem conference in Hungary and i'm excited too participate In those kinds of gatherings because Those were places where these questions Are being asked and answered by founders, by investors.
• 37:45
  Speaker 0: And my other players in the
• 37:47
  Speaker 0: ecosystem.".
• 37:49
  Speaker 0: So I'm always excited to say yes to an invitation to go and talk about these topics at those kinds of places because those are exactly the kind rooms where i am trying spread message to founders or investors.
• 38:04
  Speaker 0: I think Hungary particularly is interesting moment itself.
• 38:11
  Speaker 0: As I've long observed, there's no lack of talent in Hungary.
• 38:15
  Speaker 0: Absolutely!
• 38:17
  Speaker 0: Look at the Nobel laureate.
• 38:18
  Speaker 0: count just my own experience...I think the smartest people ever worked with right?
• 38:25
  Speaker 0: And so i'm excited for what comes next not to say a new political climate but also an age of AI when amongst the powers that are being created, importantly is the democratization of who can build.
• 38:43
  Speaker 0: Right?
• 38:43
  Speaker 0: And so I'm excited to see Hungary enter into a new chapter of flourishing as an venture ecosystem with fewer constraints let's say than we've had in the past on access-to-capital and on access to being able what Hungary's true potential is.
• 39:07
  Speaker 0: So I'm particularly excited for me at Summit and these messages there, For that reason as you said i am sharing a stage with Gabor Levi who was the founder of The First B Corp and champion in the movement in Hungary.
• 39:24
  Speaker 0: so we are going to undertake some great questions or themes.
• 39:31
  Speaker 0: you know, what does this moment portend for Hungary and the greater CEE in...you know.
• 39:37
  Speaker 0: The moment that we're in right?
• 39:38
  Speaker 0: What comes next for impact?
• 39:41
  Speaker 0: because of course the desire For these ecosystems to show That they are about impact is also on the rise like I was in Madrid at another conference called South Summit back in June And they had like eight different topics, you know talks that have the word impact in them.
• 40:03
  Speaker 0: So it's an important topic part of the evidence that Europe is ahead of the curve and so I was determined to bring a topic of impact discussion to this stage at NEALT because i think its necessary timely
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I look forward to it.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: as I said, I'll be in attendance.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: i'll be front row if not backstage and uh, I'm sure It's gonna be a great event.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: I want thank you very much jack for coming on the show And it's been pleasure.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: so that's not the first time we hear about oyster sounds.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: first time We have an inroads with oyster?
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I'm Sure won't be last from people associated former or current.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: So yes Thank You Very Much.
• 40:45
  Speaker 0: Thank You brother.
• 40:46
  Speaker 0: Have A Great Day.