Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 3) (5/5/26)

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Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 3) (5/5/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
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  where he left off with the unnamed lieutenant from MCC
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  and his interview with the OIG investigators. Question. We're going
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  to follow up with some of those more lines of
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  questioning later on in the interview. So you don't recall, though,
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  receiving specific instructions from Captain redacted or anyone else with
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  regard to Epstein. You do you know he needed one
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  and you did not get the email? Answer? These come
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  all the time. Any inmate comes off of Watch, they
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  send it out. Question and should everyone know if someone
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  comes off Watch that they are required to have a
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  cell mate? Answer? I'm not sure. I mean that's what
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  they do. They come out anyone comes off Suicide Watch,
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  you put them in with the cell mate question. Yeah,
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  and that's pretty general common knowledge, correct? And where do
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  you learn that? Is that from your daily operations or
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  do you learn that in training as well? Answer? I
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  don't know. I guess it's daily operations. Question. Okay, but
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  most people should know that a person coming off of
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  Suicide Watch is required to have a cell mate answer.
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  I mean it depends I don't know. I know we
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  get these emails though they send them out. Anytime an
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  inmate comes off, you try to put them with a
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  cell mate. But then again, like I said, in the Shoe,
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  it's you know, because even if they come off Suicide Watch,
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  they don't say like they come off and stay in
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  the shoe for a year, they have to have a
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  cell mate for a year. You understand what I'm saying. So,
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  as far as the notice we get, But does everyone
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  know that, I'm not sure about that question? But you knew?
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  Answer yeah, question how did you know though? Answer? I
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  got the email. Question Okay, so your knowledge is from
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  the email. But earlier you said that anybody in the
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  shoe anyway needs to needs a cell mate. Answer yeah,
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  question all right, So he had basically two requirements to them.
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  One there was an email that he received, all though
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  the fact that he was in the shoe and he
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  didn't have any of those special requirements like he was
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  going to harm someone else or something like that, that
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  he should have a cell mate. Answer right, question all right?
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  And do you know if you ever communicated that to anybody?
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  When you visited the shoe in July or August of
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  twenty nineteen answer, I'm not sure. Question like the people
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  that worked in the shoe, would have you been as
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  the activities lieutenant if you're doing around there, is that
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  something that you would address? Answer? Bring up? Yeah, if
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  he had a cell mate though, yeah, bring something up
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  if they didn't. Question, So you'd only bring it up
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  if you knew he didn't have one. Answer, So like
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  if you say, hey, guys, how many single cells do
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  we have? Such and such? Hey, what's going on? Hey? Well,
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  this is the reason question? And is that something when
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  you would visit the shoe? Is that something you would ask?
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  How many single cells do you have? Answer? Yeah? Question
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  is that like one of the check the box things?
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  Does everybody that visits the shoe he gets cut off
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  by the lieutenant. I can't speak for everybody, but I
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  know even as oh, I see we said, hey, you
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  know the fine we have single cells maneuver to condense
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  it for space stuff like that question? Okay, answer So
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  I don't know if anyone indiscernible into it. Question, but
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  that's what you would do when you were activities lieutenant.
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  Answer sometimes question okay, answer if I seen someone without Hey,
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  what's going on with this? Dude, Well, he's housed in
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  discernible room. Question but when you would visit the shoe,
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  was that something that you would address saying how many
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  single cells do we got? Answer? I'm not a shoe lieutenant. Question, Oh,
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  only if you're the lieutenant. Answer, yeah, question I'm talking
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  about when you do your rounds. Answer, you do the rounds.
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  You only say it if you know that's some one
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  someone new comes in. Okay, you got space for him. No,
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  right now, we've got to put him in a single
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  cell or something like that. Question Okay, And were you
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  ever the shoe lieutenant answer at MCC? Question? Yeah, answer,
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  I don't think so. I was never shoe lieutenant. Question okay,
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  but do you remember ever having a conversation with anyone
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  in the shoe at MCC about Epstein and his cellmate requirement? Answer? No,
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  question No, all right. So, referring to the duty assignment roster,
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  who are the MCC supervisors on duty with responsibility for
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  overseeing the shoe on August ninth, twenty nineteen when you
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  were working, Answer it would be me and redacted. Question
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  so the two of you would be responsible answer on
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  day watch? Yeah. Question okay, And then would it be
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  the same thing for the shift after you. Would that
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  be the activities lieutenant and the ops lieutenant answer yeah.
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  Question and is that because when the shoe lieutenant is
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  not there, activities lieutenant and Ops lieutenant always have oversight
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  of the shoe. Answer well, I told you we have
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  to make around in the shoe. Yeah. Question, but that
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  would be the lieutenants, They would be the lieutenants that
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  would have oversight over the shoe. Correct answer, yeah, pretty much.
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  Question Okay, on August ninth, what communication did you have
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  with any of the other lieutenants with regard to Epstein
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  being housed with MCC or the MCC shoe can you recall? Answer? No?
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  Question And again, thinking back, this is like one of
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  the biggest things that's ever happened when you were there,
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  this guy dies. Can you remember any conversations you had
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  the day before with anyone with regard to Epstein? Answer?
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  I just know that he used to come to the
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  legal all the time, attorney conference pretty much the whole day,
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  and that's about it. Question And what about the time
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  he would be moved from the attorney conference? Answer early,
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  like probably eight in the morning. Question and who would
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  be the person that would move them. Answer the shoe staff,
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  get them out of the shoe. Question okay, answer he
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  was in the shoe. Question as the activities lieutenant, did
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  you visit him at all in the attorney conference or
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  check on him? Is that part of your round process? Answer?
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  It's not part of the rounds. But if you see
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  him in there, if you're standing by the elevators or
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  something like that. Yeah question okay answer, but you're not.
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  You don't have to check. No question, all right. Did
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  anyone ever provide you with special instructions with regards to Epstein?
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  Answer special instructions? Question yeah, answer like something No, with
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  special instructions like he gets cut off by the investigator,
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  like conversations with Epstein. Hey, make sure you do this
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  just Epstein. Make sure this is going you know, I
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  guess specific instructions. Maybe special isn't the right word. Answer
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  no question. But did anyone ever specifically say, you know,
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  this is Epstein, We've got to make sure we're doing this.
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  Answer No, not that I recall question No, did any
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  lieutenants ever talk to you about Epstein's requirement to have
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  a cell mate? Answer? I mean it's not like I said,
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  we got the email. There's no one saying, Hey, by
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  the way, from my understanding, didn't you have a cell
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  mate up until this? I think he had a cell
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  mate since he got out of the suicide watch, so
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  I don't think there was a lapse in it. Question.
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  So what about up until then? You're saying, what is
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  your understanding of what happened? Answer? What happened his cellmate
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  went to court and either went to transfer or got
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  released or something and never came back. And then you
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  know that night he went out, he went without a
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  cell mate. Question. So we'll get into that. I'll ask
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  you a couple more questions then, just to make sure
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  that we stay kind of on page at the bottom
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  of this page, you see, we're going to start talking
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  about that inmate, and I'll just what you knew about that.
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  You said lieutenants are responsible for conducting rounds. Are there
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  responsible for conducting counts in the shoe? Answer no question No,
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  so like just around nothing to do with the counts. Answer.
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  Count is for officers. Question okay, and you don't need
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  to oversee them as a lieutenant or anything like that.
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  Answer You could take account, but usually you're doing patrol,
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  you're not doing the count with the officers. Question right,
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  so in physically presence in the shoe the only time
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  that the lieutenant is involved, and actually with rounds, not
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  with counts. Answer not with counts. Question okay? And did
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  you conduct any rounds in the shoe on August ninth,
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  twenty nineteen. Question you don't remember? Again, you're placing yourself
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  back on one of the biggest incidences and you know
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  all this circus that's been going on since that time.
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  Answer yeah, I know. Question, So you can't really put
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  yourself back to that day, like, Hey, what was my
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  involvement with this? And did I he gets cut off
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  by the lieutenant. No, I had no involvement with this. Question.
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  Well that's what I mean. But you you were the
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  activities lieutenant, you know, on the you know, the day
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  before and specifically, like you said, on the day before
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  when his cellmate was removed. So you can't remember? Answer
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  if I did a round? No question okay, So you can't.
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  Then do you remember having any conversation with any of
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  the people listed in there on your shift in the
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  shoe on that date, specifically with regard to Epstein or
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  redacted his cellmate? Answer no, question all right, and it'll
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  be like a redacted, Michael Thomas tovin oell redacted, redacted
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  or redacted none of those people. Answer no. Question. Okay,
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  so you didn't speak to any of those people about
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  Epstein being required to have a cell mate since his
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  cellmate was gone. Answer you were talking about that day?
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  Question Yeah, on that day? Answer I can't remember. Question okay,
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  all right. The people that are in the shoe are
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  there responsible for conducting rounds and counts during their shift? Answer? Yeah.
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  Question as far as the shift that you worked on
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  day watch, what's your understanding of how many rounds and
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  counts they should have done? Answer? There's no counts on
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  day watch. Question okay, what about the rounds? Answer the
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  rounds you're doing a certain shift? We go about so
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  you do one, say like eight a thirty, you do
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  one a thirty to nine, you do one. Question so
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  every thirty minutes. Answer every thirty minutes, not to exceed
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  forty minutes. They're regular rounds. Question Okay, and you're supposed
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  to do one of those rounds with them, but you
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  can't recall whether you did or not. Answer No, we're
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  supposed to do rounds with them. No question. You're supposed
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  to just do a round on your own. Answer yeah,
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  question okay, answer to our round in the shoe? Question
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  and can you recall if you did your round in
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  the shoe? Answer? No, I can't. Question. You can't recall
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  would it be abnormal if you didn't answer? I can't recall.
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  Question You can't recall if it would be abnormal if
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  you didn't answer? If I didn't do the round? Question
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  right answer? Would it be abnormal? I mean I'm not
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  the shoe lieutenant, That's what I'm saying. Question, But there's
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  no shoe lieutenant. You said you know you or redacted
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  would be responsible, So I'm saying, would it be abnormal
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  if you didn't do it? So? Would it be normally
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  have been done? I know you said that you're responsible
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  for it. Answer No, the lieutenants are responsible. But if
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  a Monday through Friday, if a shoe lieutenants there, there's
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  no reason for me to go up there. Question but
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  there is no shoe lieutenant. Answer right, So, but I
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  don't recall if I did a round or not? Question? Okay,
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  But the last question wasn't that saying wouldn't it have
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  been abnormal if you didn't do one? I know you
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  can't recall. Answer. Yeah, question, but should you normally have
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  done it if there's no shoe, lieutenant answer yeah, question yeah, so,
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  knowing yourself, you probably he gets cut off by the
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  lieutenant if there's no shoe, lieutenant. Yeah, question, Okay, answer Okay.
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  All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
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  then the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
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  pick up where we left off. All the information that
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  goes with this episode can be found in the description box.