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LINDSAY CLANCY HUSBAND: 8-MONTH-OLD CALLAN "DIED IN MY ARMS" · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Tonight, Lindsay Clancy's husband says his eight-month-old son, Callan, quote,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: died in my arms. And tonight, the heartbreak last words
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: he uttered to his baby boy. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: being with us. Mom slits her own wrist and jumps
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: out a window after killing all three of her children.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: So this is top three worst crime scenes I've ever
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: been to.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: The internet is on fire with sleuths claiming Patrick Clancy
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: is somehow involved.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Why in the world would this man leave his wife
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: who's struggling alone with three kids?
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: I'm so grateful for those four days that I had
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: with him. And I'm so grateful he hung on. I said,
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. And I got to hold him. I
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: got to lay down next to him. And he died
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: in my arms.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: That is Patrick Clancy. And that is from our friends
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: at CBS 60 Minutes. Heartbreaking. This guy is battling back
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: against internet trolls and haters that from the very beginning
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: has said he is the one responsible for the deaths
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: of his three children. How many times do I have
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: to scream it from the mountaintops? Patrick Clancy is not
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the one that strangled his three children dead. I don't
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: think Patrick Clancy had anything to do with the deaths
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: of his three children. He had nothing to do, as
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: far as I can analyze the evidence, and believe you me,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: if I thought he was involved in any way, I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: would be screaming it on the mountaintops. The husband didn't
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: do it. The pings on his phone, the video here
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: and other places, his GPS in his car, the pickup
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: time of the dinner his wife wanted, it all places
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: him outside the home, At the time the children were murdered,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: somebody wants to argue between 532 and 545. He left CVS,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: went home, murdered three children, left and came back to
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: 3V at 545. And then he's home at 609. No,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that did not happen. We can find fault with Patrick
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Clancy all day long, all night long. As much as
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: people want to blame Patrick Clancy, because nobody wants to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Confront that a mother could kill all three of her
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: children and not just be crazy. Dear Lord in heaven,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: can you imagine coming home? You call out for your children.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Nobody answers. Everything's dark. You start looking for them. And
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: in the words of Patrick Clancy, you see blood as
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: if it was sprayed with a hose on the wall.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: This army... An army of people, legions of people trying
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: to blame Patrick Clancy. I don't understand why. Now, look
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: again at the dad of three who lost all of
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: his children, Patrick Clancy from last night.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: I'm so grateful for those four days that I had
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: with him. And I'm so grateful he hung on. I said,
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. And I got to hold him. I
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: got to lay down next to him. And he died
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: in my arms.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: From our friends at 60 Minutes to Dr. Bethany Marshall
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: joining us tonight.
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Bethany, I'm constantly sending you pictures and texts updating you
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: about my children, you know, going to college and all
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: those emotions. And I have all that and all he
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: has left. It's Callan dying in his arms, his baby
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: just a few months old, and he's grateful, he's thankful
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: that he got to lay down next to him before
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: he died. It's excruciating, Bethany. And yet there are hordes
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: of people out there still, even now, even after last night,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: saying he died. is the killer. I don't know how
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: he did it, but he did it. They're actually saying that.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: What is wrong with these people?
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Nancy, he's definitely not the killer. As you pointed out earlier,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: the evidence does not support that. However, there is something
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: missing in this interview. There's something missing in his words
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: that he was grateful he got four more days with Callan.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: And what's missing is that Callan struggled. This little boy
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: had ligatures around his neck. And Patrick is happy he
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: got four more days, but there's no mention of the
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: pain and the suffering that this little boy is going through.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: It's almost as if the account is whitewashed somehow. When
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I treat couples and individuals, I look for both sides
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: of the story. I look for something called ambivalence. I'm
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: happy I had four more days with my baby boy,
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  Speaker 2: but there's a part of me that wished he would
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: have just gone out immediately because He was lying there
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: struggling with ligature marks around his neck, and I couldn't
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: bear to see him suffering like that. So I'm looking
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: for the words that are missing from this interview, not
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: just the words that are spoken.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I still don't understand, Dr. Bethany, how people and what
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: fantastical world they live in After Lindsay Clancy and her lawyer,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Kevin Reddington, stand up in court, he stands up in
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: court and says she did it. Joe Scott Morgan, help
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: me out. You're the professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: author and star of YouTube hit Body Bags with Joe
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. And that little footnote, over 10,000 death scene
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: investigations under your belt. Repeat, 10,000. Joe Scott, weigh in.
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: These children suffered and they suffered at the hand of
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: their mother, who was actually using exercise bands. It's not
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: like she had the thought to go out and say,
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: you know what, maybe I'll get something more static, like
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: a woven rope or maybe a piece of wire. No,
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: she didn't do that. She got these exercise bands, which
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: I guess she's been using in the past to exercise with. Oh, wow,
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: what great facility for these, because every time you apply these,
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: every time you put tension on these things, okay? You
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: have to readjust it, all right? So these children would
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: have struggled for a protracted period of time because that's
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: what she chose to utilize in order to destroy her children,
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: which she did in that house in the absence of
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: their father, okay? I'm trying to use small words so
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: that maybe this woman can understand.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: It's amazing to me. And it's not just Lisa Rinna
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: and apparently her therapist. It's a Patrick did it. You
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: have no idea, Joe Scott. I can't even get through
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: the grocery aisle at Kroger without someone attacking me and
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: telling me I've got it all wrong that Patrick did it.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Listen to this.
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: Patrick claims that he went to CVS and sat in
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: his car for about 15 minutes. But that is nowhere
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: seen on the CBS footage. The only thing you see
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: on the CBS footage is Patrick wearing a different outfit
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: than from the restaurant where he picked up the food
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: minutes later and rushing out of CBS after the supposedly
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: 14-second call from Lindsay.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, now we've got TikTok's at Courtney Dark Diaries. And
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: there you have it. Shannon Hill is joining us, star
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: of Shannon Hill News on Insta, who was in the courtroom,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: heard the evidence right down to the closing arguments. Somehow online,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: forget Patrick Clancy's demeanor last night. What we learned from
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: everything he said, the details that we learned that I
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: believe could only have been formulated if you're telling the truth.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: But now these online sleuths have figured out how the
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: CVS footage has been manipulated and that somehow Patrick Clancy
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: is really responsible for What did we really learn in
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the courtroom, Shannon Hill, from the footage?
• 8:54
  Speaker 7: On the stand, according to the online sleuths, Patrick didn't
• 8:57
  Speaker 7: cry enough. In last night's 60-minute episode, Patrick cried too much.
• 9:03
  Speaker 7: They're never happy with any answer they get from Patrick Clancy.
• 9:07
  Speaker 7: And something we learned about that footage was that little
• 9:09
  Speaker 7: clip that you showed of that TikToker talking about Patrick.
• 9:13
  Speaker 8: Where was he?
• 9:14
  Speaker 7: In the parking lot. Well, there was forensic evidence that
• 9:17
  Speaker 7: Patrick Clancy was sending emails, sending work emails within that
• 9:21
  Speaker 7: timeframe that he sat in that CVS parking lot. This
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: was an investigated case. People forget that this was investigated
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: when this first happened and brought to the courtroom a
• 9:32
  Speaker 7: couple of years later. They'll never be happy with any
• 9:36
  Speaker 7: answer that Patrick Clancy gives to them.
• 9:38
  Speaker 9: Dr.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Bethany is joining us for now, psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: You can see her on Bravo. Hulu, Peacock. You can
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: hear her on her new hit podcast, On the Couch
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: with Dr. Bethany Marshall. And you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: She's not a TV talking head. She's a real psychopath.
• 10:01
  Speaker 9: Dr.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Bethany now this is off the top of my head
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: but he said Patrick Clancy said that Cora was brave
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: and adventurous she loved princesses he said that Dawson loved
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Paw Patrol, blues clues, and anything to do with fire
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: trucks and police trucks. And that baby Callan was just
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: a happy baby. A happy baby, always smiling. Now, those
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: are just details that I remember him stating. Again, I
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: don't understand why. Why it's so hard to get your
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: mind around the fact that Lindsay Clancy did this thing.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: He also, didn't he also talk about Cora loving slots
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: and he has the handprints of the kids on his
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: new apartment in New York city. He has a toy
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: that Dawson used to play with. He has a lot
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: of memories of these children that he's willing to talk about. Nancy,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: people want to make the world a predictable place. And
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: if they hear about a mother killing her children, which
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Lindsay certainly did, that does not fit with their cohesive
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: narrative of how the world should be. So they make
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: up their own narrative in their mind. And I think also, Nancy,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: men become vilified because women do actually take up most
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: of the workload with babies. They have to. Babies come
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: from their bodies. They take the mental workload. They take
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: the physical workload. There's no way that the father can
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: step in 100% to alleviate the mother's burden. The father
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: is just a supportive system. But because of that, fathers
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: often get thrown under the bus. And I think that's
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: certainly what we're seeing with Patrick Clancy. Also, there's this
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: civil suit coming up. So we have to know that
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: whatever Patrick is saying, he has to really be careful
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: of what he puts out there, because everything's going to
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: come forward in that civil suit. So that makes him
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: sort of quiet, maybe even smug looking, even though I
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: do not believe he is smug at all. He has
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: to use words not only for the civil suit for himself, Nancy,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: but for Lindsay. So him being quiet in that interview,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: him obfuscating details in some benign way is also to
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: protect his wife, his former wife, Lindsay Clancy's rights in
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: future lawsuits.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Rarely have I been speechless at a demonstration. That's TikToks
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: at Millie. Okay, Josh Colesrood, I think I know your
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: next trial strategy. Only put people on the jury, then
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: make TikToks like these. You'll win in about five minutes, Colesrood.
• 12:58
  Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, I mean.
• 13:00
  Speaker 10: You can't discount the public opinion for what it is.
• 13:05
  Speaker 10: And I think part of the problem was that the
• 13:07
  Speaker 10: prosecution didn't do their job.
• 13:10
  Speaker 8: I mean, this is a very difficult case.
• 13:13
  Speaker 10: And that's because Massachusetts makes this kind of insanity case
• 13:16
  Speaker 10: really hard for prosecutors. Now, just hear me out for
• 13:19
  Speaker 10: a second. Lindsay doesn't have to prove that she was insane.
• 13:23
  Speaker 11: Right.
• 13:24
  Speaker 10: And the public opinion wasn't convinced that she was any
• 13:27
  Speaker 10: way insane. And they got to prove everything beyond a
• 13:30
  Speaker 10: reasonable doubt. And that's a really high hill to climb.
• 13:33
  Speaker 10: And I'm not sure that a hung jury is the
• 13:35
  Speaker 10: wrong outcome, given the complicated fact pattern in this case.
• 13:40
  Speaker 10: And frankly, you know, the public debate has turned into
• 13:43
  Speaker 10: a food fight and all the actual evidence is getting
• 13:46
  Speaker 10: buried under the mess.
• 13:47
  Speaker 8: This is coming from both sides. I mean, this isn't
• 13:49
  Speaker 8: a case about a selfish woman.
• 13:50
  Speaker 10: It's not a case about abortion or the fall of
• 13:53
  Speaker 10: Western civilization. This is about a fact pattern. a complicated
• 13:58
  Speaker 10: fact pattern. And the facts ought to matter just a
• 14:01
  Speaker 10: little bit. So you got a horrific crime scene. You
• 14:03
  Speaker 10: got psychiatric evidence, the evidence of planning and serious evidence
• 14:07
  Speaker 10: of mental illness. And then you have Massachusetts telling the
• 14:10
  Speaker 10: prosecutors to prove that she knew what she was doing
• 14:13
  Speaker 10: was wrong and prove that she knew that she was
• 14:15
  Speaker 10: in control of herself.
• 14:16
  Speaker 8: And that's like a defense that's almost built for a
• 14:20
  Speaker 8: hung jury.
• 14:21
  Speaker 10: And this wasn't an easy insanity defense.
• 14:24
  Speaker 8: This was a sanity defense case for the prosecution.
• 14:27
  Speaker 10: And it gets even harder because psychiatry is extraordinarily imprecise.
• 14:33
  Speaker 10: You can't take an x-ray of someone's brain. You can't
• 14:36
  Speaker 10: take their blood to see what's going on. So anyway,
• 14:39
  Speaker 10: I'm not surprised by the court of public opinion.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Okay. That was certainly a manifesto.
• 14:47
  Speaker 12: Dr.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, let me refresh everyone's recollection. The question was,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: loading a jury with people like these TikTokers, which I
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: think Kevin Reddington did a pretty good job at that.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: No one ever suggested Patrick Clancy did it, but I've
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: seen jurors extrapolate the evidence that they've got and come
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: up with zany theories, just like the one we saw
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: acting it out with Barbie doll knockoffs.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Nancy, that Barbie doll knockoff is frightening. And you have
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: no idea how many people in my life come forward
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: with these crazy, zany, Patrick Clancy theory, did it. People
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: with PhDs, MDs, Black American Express cards, people who took
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: their companies public, have these crazy conspiracy theories. And you know, Nancy,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: in terms of the jury, it would be really, it
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: would be so unfortunate to have one of those people
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: on the jury because being paranoid, And having conspiracy theories
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: is low-hanging fruit. It's much more difficult to think critically.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And when we think critically, we really have to focus.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: We have to concentrate on the science, on the behavioral evidence,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: and the fact, Nancy, that she was a woman desperate
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: for help. She was on multiple medications. And you know, Nancy,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: those medications were not at a toxic level. When she
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: went to the ER and in the hospital afterwards, They
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: did not, all of those medications were at a subclinical level.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: What that means is that they did not rise to
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: the level of her being overmedicated. She killed those kids,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: whether it was a command hallucination, psychosis, she did it,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: but the medications did not drive.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Her to do it.
• 16:40
  Speaker 10: Dr.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Bethany, dare I call you on a psychiatric or a
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: psychological issue, but.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: As I recall, and correct me if I'm wrong, Dave
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: and Shannon, of all of the 13-ish medications she had
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: been prescribed, there were only three in her system at
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: the time. And not only that, there is ample evidence
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: of intent. So Dr. Bethany Marshall, coming up with all
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: of these theories and that Patrick Clancy is the killer
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: is a way for people, including the jury, to avoid
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: the fact that Lindsay Clancy killed them and you brought
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: up auditory hallucinations. When the layperson thinks of hallucinations, they
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: think of something that you see, a visual ideation, a
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: visual hallucination. But there are also people Auditory, that you
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: hear hallucinations, which in my experience have been much more
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: serious than a visual hallucination. But this is a simple yes, no, Bethany.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true that auditory hallucinations generally last for a
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: long period of time? They don't happen the minute you
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: slam the door behind your husband and in 18 minutes
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you've heard the evil male auditory hallucination. And you kill
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: all three of your children and the whole thing's over.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: And you never hear that voice again, neither before nor after.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: One time in your life, the first time you hear
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: a voice saying kill your children, you go, oh, sure,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I'm on my way.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: You are correct, Nancy.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: It doesn't happen that way.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: No, it does not happen. It does not fit any
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: clinical pattern that I know that you would have command
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: hallucinations for 18 minutes. But you never had them before.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: You never had them afterwards. And wait, get this, Nancy.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: The first time you even report command hallucinations is when
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the defense medical expert hands you his phone. You asked,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Lindsay asked to talk to her husband. And she says,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: a male voice told me to do it. I cannot
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: help myself. Nancy, that makes no sense. Because if you
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: had these command hallucinations, you wouldn't be able to describe
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: them so clearly. And to me, it seems like she
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: was malingering a defense at that point. No, you cannot
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: have them for 18 minutes and never have them before
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: or never have them afterwards. I have never seen a
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: case like that.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Dr.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, that is extremely astute. Let me understand this
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: to Shannon Hill or Dave Mack. Is that correct? That
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: the first, the very first time Lindsay Clancy told anybody
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: about that she had been told by a male voice
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: to murder her children was when the defense expert handed
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: her a cell phone and she told her, her husband
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: that's why she killed them, a male voice told her to.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Is that correct, Shannon Hill?
• 19:57
  Speaker 7: Nancy, that is correct. And the strange thing about this
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: very first phone call she makes to Patrick when she
• 20:04
  Speaker 7: is in the ICU is that psychiatrist Dr. Weisel is
• 20:09
  Speaker 7: in the room with her and hands her his phone,
• 20:11
  Speaker 7: which he wasn't technically supposed to do. She dials Patrick
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: and she tells him one of two things. She wants
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: to find out where they stand. And then secondly, she
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: tells him that she heard a voice, a male voice,
• 20:27
  Speaker 7: never mentions anything about the children. And that is the
• 20:30
  Speaker 7: full length of their discussion, according to what was said
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: in the courtroom. And according to Patrick Clancy in the
• 20:36
  Speaker 7: 60 Minutes episode yesterday that we all watched, Lindsay never
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: asked for forgiveness and they never really seemed to talk
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: about the kids all that much.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Well, Shannon Hill, you're absolutely correct. She never asked, forgive me,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: Has she ever asked for your forgiveness? No, but I
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: gave it to her.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: From our friends at 60 Minutes, you know, Dave Mack,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: In all of our sifting through the evidence, all of
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: our listening to the testimony, Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I never heard her talk about remorse.
• 21:18
  Speaker 8: Not one word, Nancy.
• 21:20
  Speaker 11: You know, when you get to the heart and soul
• 21:22
  Speaker 11: of forgiveness, it's really for the individual providing the forgiveness.
• 21:27
  Speaker 11: She didn't ask for it. Patrick Lindsay gave it to
• 21:30
  Speaker 11: her without her asking. She still hasn't asked for, she
• 21:34
  Speaker 11: hasn't shown any remorse, Nancy. Not at all.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: Not one bit.
• 21:37
  Speaker 9: I think I did the best I could with what
• 21:44
  Speaker 9: I had at the time. And I live with the outcome.
• 21:49
  Speaker 9: I live with it every day.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: I talk to them.
• 21:52
  Speaker 12: What do you say?
• 21:54
  Speaker 9: Help me. All the time.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: Do they help you?
• 22:03
  Speaker 9: I like to believe they do.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: It's a way I stay connected to them.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I believe him. If you notice the way that he
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: is speaking, there's no pauses, there's no rapid blinking. He
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: is facially corresponding to what he's saying. He's not thinking
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: for long periods of time, devising an answer, and so
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: much more. Dr. Bethany, I believe him, and I do
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: not know what is wrong with these people that want
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: to crucify him.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Nancy, it's really easier to blame the father than it
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: is to blame the mother. The fact that a mother
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: could kill her children is just so unthinkable. But Nancy,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: he was brave. to do this interview and this idea
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: that he's asking his children for help. That tells me
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: that he does believe in God, a creator, and that
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: his children have gone on to some other place and
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: the relationship with them continues in some form. And when
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: a person of faith like Patrick believes that that relationship
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: is continuing and he continues to talk to them, that
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: is not a sign of somebody who kills their children.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: You and I have covered So many stories of parents
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: who've killed infants, committed a filicide, a fantaside. You know
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: what they do? They throw all the baby toys, the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: baby pictures, the books, the everything into the dumpster outside.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: That's what you do when you're guilty. You don't talk
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: to your children while they're in heaven with God.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Hey, you know what, Dr. Bethany Marshall? You just made
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: so many family annihilator dads go through my mind. And
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I specifically thought of Chris Watts. Oh, I just thought
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: of another one, Scott Peterson. But let's go with Chris Watts.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: When Chris Watts was being interrogated, he never cried. He
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: only talked about himself and what was wrong with his wife, Shanann,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: that he murdered. And put her in a shallow grave
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: where she had coffin birth and gave birth to baby
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Nico post-mortem. no tears, nothing. And stark contrast to what
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: we are seeing with Patrick Clancy. And then you've got
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Scott Peterson who had to go to try to make
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: his eyes water up, spoke of his wife in the
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: past tense. We never saw even a smidgen of the
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: heartfelt emotion that we're seeing with Patrick Clancy. And I
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: don't think you can fake it. Call me naive. No
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: one ever has done that. But I just don't think
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: you can fake what we saw with Clancy last night.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: You can't, Nancy. And if you want to tell an
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: abuser from a non-abuser, anybody in marriages or relationships or
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: have children who are abusive, adult children, ask yourself, do
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: they speak positively of the victim or do they speak negatively?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: These family annihilators, they disparage, they demean, they criticize people.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: the deceased wives, the deceased children, and that is the
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: litmus test. But if they speak positively.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: If they have toys, if they have the baby sloth,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: the beaten up toy, the handprints on the wall, and
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: they're memorializing their children, and they're talking well, speaking well
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: of the children, that is a sign that they.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Are not an abuser and not a perpetrator.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: When I saw the ceramic last night of the three
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: children's handprints, all I could think of, which I've shown
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: you before, I don't know if you remember, of the
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: handprints and the footprints are that big of the twins
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: when they were born that I made and put up
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: on the wall. It just, he's got that on his mantel.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: displayed in his home now. And I find it very
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: difficult to believe that a guy that murdered his three
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: children would have that memento out. That said, after the
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: trolls attack on Clancy as being the killer, now somehow
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: they're blaming his new wife.
• 26:40
  Speaker 12: Pat pulls out his phone to pay. And I noticed
• 26:44
  Speaker 12: this adorable photo of children as the wallpaper. And I
• 26:49
  Speaker 12: just asked, who are those cuties? And Pat had said,
• 26:51
  Speaker 12: those are my kids. And then I think I asked
• 26:55
  Speaker 12: if they live in Massachusetts. And Pat said they died.
• 26:58
  Speaker 12: I don't understand how the story has been so twisted.
• 27:03
  Speaker 12: But I would hope people know that Pat is, as
• 27:10
  Speaker 12: I said before, the most selfless father and supportive partner.
• 27:19
  Speaker 12: And I was just a girl that met a guy
• 27:21
  Speaker 12: running in Central Park on a really cold Saturday. And
• 27:27
  Speaker 12: I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: From our friends at 60 Minutes to Shannon Hill joining us.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: She's a star of Shannon Hill News on Insta. Shannon,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: much has been made amongst the conspiracy theorists that somehow
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Patrick Clancy and maybe even his new wife had a
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: hand in his children's death. That The two of them
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: had had some sex affair prior to the deaths, and
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: that was his motive for murder. I did not hear
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and have not heard one thing to substantiate that claim.
• 28:03
  Speaker 7: Nancy, also the public continues to run wild with that
• 28:07
  Speaker 7: one little clip we just saw of Dr. Rachel Danis saying,
• 28:10
  Speaker 7: I was just a girl who ran into a guy
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: on a cold Saturday and Because this line is sort
• 28:16
  Speaker 7: of reminiscent of the 51st States movie. So when they
• 28:20
  Speaker 7: did not play that in the 60 Minutes interview yesterday,
• 28:23
  Speaker 7: but they showed it in the promo, the public has
• 28:25
  Speaker 7: now taken that and run with it. Here's the thing.
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: These people are saying that they met after Patrick had
• 28:32
  Speaker 7: moved to New York.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: He wanted anonymity. He wanted privacy.
• 28:35
  Speaker 7: He moved to New York to get away from Duxbury,
• 28:38
  Speaker 7: which is a small town. I don't think there's anything
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: wrong with a man who just lost his three children
• 28:44
  Speaker 7: and wife to really start over and start something new.
• 28:48
  Speaker 7: He talks about how on baby Callan's one year birthday,
• 28:51
  Speaker 7: he walks into the St. Patrick's Cathedral and lights a
• 28:55
  Speaker 7: candle for baby Callan and walks out in New York
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: City and is crying, but was sort of relieved because
• 29:02
  Speaker 7: nobody was watching him because he had that level of privacy.
• 29:05
  Speaker 7: This man had to start over and he did that
• 29:08
  Speaker 7: with Dr.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Rachel. We are learning tonight reports indicating that Dr. Rachel
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: is pregnant with their first child. This, Dave Mack, as
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: we are learning that Lindsey Clancy's defense attorney is demanding
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the judge investigate the holdout, Gerard. Let me see Dave Mack.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: And Dave Mack, let me remind everybody that as much
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: as Reddington wants to scream and whine and throw a
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: tantrum about the juror, the holdout juror, he selected that
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: juror too. It's not like the state went to Walmart,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: picked him up and sat him on the jury. He
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: also selected that juror.
• 29:52
  Speaker 11: Nancy, the defense is now asking that The confidential questionnaire,
• 30:01
  Speaker 11: the background check results, all the records concerning an alleged
• 30:06
  Speaker 11: 2021 prosecution about abuse prevention order, records, his cell phone
• 30:12
  Speaker 11: metadata from his days of deliberation, a limited forensic examination
• 30:17
  Speaker 11: of the phone allegedly carried into the jury room. The
• 30:21
  Speaker 11: defense also wants this juror to be questioned under oath, Nancy,
• 30:26
  Speaker 11: under oath about the voir dire answers that he gave
• 30:30
  Speaker 11: in the September 3rd assurances on whether or not he
• 30:35
  Speaker 11: used his phone and received outside information during deliberations. They
• 30:39
  Speaker 11: want all of this on the record and they're demanding
• 30:41
  Speaker 11: it right now from a juror who was supposed to
• 30:45
  Speaker 11: be anonymous.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: With us, death investigator and star of the YouTube hit
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Just a quick reality
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: check on how these three children died and what they endured?
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: It was not quick. It was not. And here's the thing,
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: you know, that kind of roadmaps it out for me.
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: When you're talking.
• 31:10
  Speaker 13: About these two precious babies that were dead, the older,
• 31:16
  Speaker 13: the older of the two of the three, they've got
• 31:20
  Speaker 13: petechiae all through their eyes.
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: And what that means is little pinprick hemorrhages. that came
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: about as a result of the pressure that their little
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: vascular system was under as a life was literally choked
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: out of them over this period of time. And this
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: was not quick, Nancy. This brain death would not have
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: occurred in a short order. It probably would have taken
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: probably about eight to 10 minutes. And I think that
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: that has actually been testified to. This is not like,
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: you know, some case where we've talked about using gunfire, Nancy.
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: This was long and excruciating. And these precious angels, you know,
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: this is being done at the hand of their mother.
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: Just let that sink in just for a second as
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: their life is literally being taken away from them. One
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: last breath. They can't catch their breath. They're struggling. They're
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: struggling so difficult. And as a matter of fact, the
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: color in their faces would have changed. It would have
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: turned almost purple. So that's what we're faced with. That's
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: what's left behind. And now Patrick, all he can do
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: is go visit a grave. But yet she continues to thrive,
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: whether she's in custody or wherever she is. And he's
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: left with his memory names.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding this case, remember,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: The state and the defense are starting a square one,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: rebuilding their cases. Dial 781-934-5656.
• 32:53
  Speaker 12: Repeat, 781-934-5656.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: We remember an American hero, Deputy Constable Heather Avery, Jefferson
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: County Constables, Texas. killed in the line of duty, leaving
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: behind her husband-turned-widow, Troy, and daughter, Caitlin, American hero, Deputy
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Constable Heather Avery. Thank you to our guests, but especially
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Grace signing
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: off for tonight, but God willing, I'll see you tomorrow night.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: And until then, good night, friends.
• 33:43
  Speaker 12: Thank you.