Latest / Skin Anarchy / Unraveling The Hallmark Mechanisms Behind Aging With MDAiRE founder, Dr Stefani Kappel MD

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Unraveling The Hallmark Mechanisms Behind Aging With MDAiRE founder, Dr Stefani Kappel MD · Skin Anarchy

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta, and I am very, very excited because I am interviewing a brand today that is founded by um a fellow doctor, uh, somebody that has a very, very uh impressive background in not only medicine, but also um application of medicine, you know, and really kind of getting things started in a way that I don't really often see before, you know, like I don't see a lot of this um in terms of like science.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I usually see science-backed brands that have like, you know, a little bit of science behind them, but it's not like a full-fledged approach.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that being said, I want to really introduce you guys and let you get to know the founder of MD Air, Dr.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Cappel, who is here with us today.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Dr.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Capel.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so honored to be hosting you.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you so much.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so honored to be here.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a privilege, and thank you so much for the opportunity.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, the honor is truly mine, and I'm really excited because, like I was saying, I I had a chance to read a little bit about your background, and it's very impressive.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: You you are a double fellow, and I I'm very impressed by that.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um can't wait to learn.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love if you could start us off by that, you know, by walking us down memory lane and telling us about your career and where everything began for you and how you decided to go into dermatology and all that good stuff.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, I'd love to.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I always have been just fascinated with the skin and skincare ever since I was a little girl.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my mom introduced it to me really early on in my life, and it's always been a passion of mine.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I always knew I wanted to be a doctor as well.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was influenced by many physicians in my family, and I probably knew around the age of eight or nine that I wanted to be a dermatologist.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: So after applying to medical school and um going through medical school and graduating from medical school, um, I was honored to um match in my dream program for dermatology residency at UCLA, um, which was a really amazing program because it was in the heart of West LA where we had a lot of exposure to aesthetics and cosmetic dermatology and part of our didactics.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we were learning about lasers and injectables and you know, all the science behind it and laser physics was a was a big part of our residency program um at UCLA.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so after that, I just couldn't learn enough and I couldn't get my hands on as many, you know, as many books and learning as and learning opportunities as possible.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: So after completing my dermatology residency, I went on to pursue a dual combined double fellowship in something called MOS micrographic surgery, which is a type of skin cancer surgery, and then also a cosmetic and uh laser fellowship, which was really amazing because although I had had a lot of cosmetic dermatology and laser fellowship training under my belt, I just wanted a little bit more and I wanted to get my hands dirty and just get involved in my clinical trials and was really interested in how these devices and products came to fruition.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: So participating in clinical trials and doing a double fellowship really just provided extra number of years of really um, you know, learning about the science and technology, and I had an appreciation of how rapidly advancing the field was in cosmetic dermatology and in the skincare industry.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: So after completing my fellowship, um, you know, I worked for a few years where I was the director of Moe's surgery at a laser and skin surgery center where I still completed um and participated in clinical trials.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then I moved back to my hometown of Orange County and started my own practice.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: This was just about three years ago.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel that within all my different, you know, courses of training, you know, after medical school, you know, four years of medical school, and then a year of internal medicine internship, and then four years of dermatology residency, and then fellowship, I just really have had an appreciation for um the research and the science and the technology and how things all come together and how to keep up with um you know innovation.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I started MDR, my own skinline um about a year and a half ago, my goal was to just carry carry this forward and um just keep all my patients updated um with the latest in technology and discovery in such a rapidly advancing field.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: And my passion just drives, you know, my my energy towards this.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it was it was the impetus for me to start my own uh skincare line.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it has a lot to do with my education and background of you know, 20 years um just studying the skin.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that's probably a very long answer to your question.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, and um but that's kind of how I I've gotten to this point.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not a long answer.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually I love the answer because you have so much experience.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the I feel like in the skincare world right now, you know.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been uh I've had skincare anarchy on air for about three years, and I've interviewed so many brands, and I always feel like, you know, when you try to explain skincare to people, and I'm sure you you've had this experience, you know, it's the people are always like, Well, why do you need to know so much?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, you're feeling an organ that's on the outside of your body, you know what I mean?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's why.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really great.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's really great because you have so much experience.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, thank you.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the skin is the largest organ system in our body, and it's constantly dynamic and it's constantly changing and turning over and can be stimulated in so many different ways.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many really amazing advances in in the technology and different active ingredients and vehicle delivery systems.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think being a doctor and going to a lot of these academic meetings, and I'm also, I was also a professor of dermatology at UCLA.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot that part in my in my past career, but just teaching the dermatology residents and you know, giving lectures and didactics and attending meetings, you know, you really have an appreciation for how scientifically advanced this field is always adapting.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: And when you know that and you compare it to the skincare lines that already exist and how stagnant they are and how many years behind they are, I almost got to a point where like I was in a panic.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, how can I be giving my patients this outdated skincare product or formulation, which is actually one of the regarded as one of the top-of-the-line medical grade skincare products?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew the technology wasn't up to where it should be.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember it was like my aha moment.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was in a meeting called the Um American Society for Dermatologic Surgery.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's called the ASDS, it's one of our biggest um dermatologic meetings of of the year.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember, you know, instead of going to the lecture halls where everybody was learning about Botox and fillers and lasers, I already knew that about mastered.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: I went to the super nerdy scientific little room where, you know, the people who are in the research labs discovering these, you know, new pathways and new active ingredients.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I was maybe one of only 10 people in this forum.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like a kid in the candy store.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't absorb enough of what these scientists were talking about.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I really had an aha moment when I realized like these scientists and these people who are making these groundbreaking research discoveries in the lab, they don't have any exposure at all, you know, and nobody was really even attending their lectures.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I was there sitting, you know, wow, this is really amazing information.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: I would like to implement this into skincare products that are available for everyone and you know, and for my patients.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember going and talking to the scientists after lecture saying, Well, how long um is it going to be until these new discoveries are going to be in the skincare industry?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Oh, doctor, like it takes about five to six years before they even like catch on, you know, and I'm like, that is way too long.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: I want them in my products now.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that was it was that year where I decided to um, you know, kind of create my own skincare line to kind of bridge that gap.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you know, it does it takes so much thought, you know what I mean, in terms of creating a line that is beyond just the surface, you know, and no print intentional there, you know, but it's really about it's about the molecular science.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's where you your line really shines to me because I feel as if you're finally like, you know, somebody that gets the idea that molecular biology and actual genetics and you know, signaling and these pathways that matter, right, in our body, regardless of where they are, they're really the key players that determine how how healthy we are.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: They they really are, yeah.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so so when I saw when I was reading what you're lying, I immediately was just like, you know, I mean, me, I'm also a science nerd, you know what I mean?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, I love it.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we connect because we're both nerds, and that's okay.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably why I was so intrigued.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like anyone who loves science who understands that there is a lot of complexity would appreciate what you've done here because we're not in this for the audience, really.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm just trying to let you guys know that the you know, M MDAs is not a line that's made for people to just slather on their skin and then not do it again.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like just okay, overnight results only, that's it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is a line made to work with the physiology of your body, it's made to work with the molecular physiology of your body.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you you know what I mean?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll explain it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and every, I mean, every active ingredient and every vehicle lyric system has a has a purpose.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that, you know, when you have targeted therapies and signal transduction pathways and you're upregulating cells to, you know, to communicate with each other and do things that we want the skin to do, stimulate collagen, stimulate cellular renewal, which will in turn tighten the skin, will make a more useful appearance.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to really be methodical and scientific and have purpose when you're engineering these products.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that is so fascinating to me.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that it is my passion that drives me because, you know, it it is, you know, people say, why do you put so much time into it and so much thought?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I love to do it.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just it's passionate.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I just really love it.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I love um to be able to provide products that people can use and after days of use say, oh, okay, now I get it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Or that actually does make a difference.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you really see the difference when you use um products that have active ingredients that are, you know, more advanced than the technology.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that that's a really component, important component that's been lost with so many skincare lines.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a lot of my colleagues who are also dermatologists will just white label a product and put their name on it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I just that I couldn't think of anything more hurtful to do.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I would, and just what a waste, wasted opportunity.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that also, um, you know, when I was doing um Moes surgery, so I was doing skin cancer surgeries and I was also doing cosmetic dermatology.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: So my clinic was set up like this.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: In the morning, I would do skin cancer surgery, and in the afternoon I would do, you know, more my cosmetic clinic.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I I would thought thought saw it was fascinating because Moe's surgery, for those of you who don't know, you look at the skin cancer under the microscope and you keep excising tissue until you have the tumor cleared.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: So basically you're looking under the microscope in real time.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember spending so many years looking at skin under the microscope and how the skin would look different based on what the pro with what products the patients were using.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, say for example, we're you know excising a squamous cell carcinoma on a patient who is maybe in her 60s, and then we clear the skin cancer, and then we skit her started on a certain skincare regimen with different active ingredients, and then she comes in for a different surgery about six months later, and you can compare the histology, meaning what the skin looks like under the microscope, and you can see the skin under the microscope looked 20 years younger after using certain active ingredients or having certain laser procedures.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me was super fascinating because you weren't just seeing a clinical improvement in someone's skin.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was able to look at their skin under the microscope day after day after day, and it was just really fascinating for me to see, okay, this skincare active made her skin look like this under the microscope.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Her collagen is thick and pink, her elastin fibers are all intact, they're not all fragmented, you know, the epidermis looks different.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I, in my mind, it was just really um fascinating to me to see the power of different skincare actives and also cosmetic procedures and how they impact the skin and how someone who looked 60 years old under the microscope now looks 40 years old under the microscope.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that was really powerful for me too, and a real, you know, a really big motivational factor that really wanted me to, you know, incentivize me to create a line at a brand that would create those histological changes, like cellular changes that manifest with beautiful skin clinically.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I love that.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so powerful.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: What you said is this idea of you have to be able to look that look at things under a microscope.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that, you know, we always go to as consumers, right?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're always like, well, does it look like my ace wrinkles went away?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Does it look like my A spots went away?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here's the thing what's going on underneath that's causing all of that?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that no one wants to answer.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because no one's done the research, no one's looked under the microscope.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: If they have, they haven't thought about how to fix it.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where MDR for me is like, wow, okay, here we go.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're really doing it now because you know, you're absolutely right in what you said.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I fully back every statement about, you know, when you said about the whole white labeling thing.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I hate seeing that.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is such an injustice to the intelligence, you know what I mean, of these of these professionals.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that if you are a doctor, scientist, someone who studied the science and medicine, you should and you do have the intelligence to create something novel.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't do that, that's that's just not right, man.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you gotta you gotta really go into it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta think about the science.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's one of my biggest questions for you.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, just so I can give a for everyone listening, so I can give a little background of what I know.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna let um Dr.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Kapel really dive into it.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, when I was reading about MDARs, it's based on a pathway, it's made based on a whole pathway that's related to your antioxidant, you know, uh system in your body.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's huge.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to be able to study that, I mean it's a very complex pathway as well, because it causes it's like using, you know, different other elements that are helping activate nuclear, you know, mechanisms that allow it to you know upregulate certain genes.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really complex pathway.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so for you to take the time and sit down and really think about this and say, I want to do this, I want to elicit this normal, it's a physiological thing that's going on in our bodies.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And for you to sit down and say, I want to make this into it's something available for the general public to be able to utilize, that is huge.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's in to me, that's the same as like drug discovery.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to do it like that because it becomes so, so, you know, just next level good.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes actually therapeutic.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're becoming therapeutic, you're doing something that has value and and real, you know, weight behind it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna let you explain the whole science of it, but I wanted to preface for the listeners, you know what I mean?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: That this is no joke.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: That is so sweet of you to say, and you're absolutely right.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the funny thing is that nobody really asks me that, but I'm so happy that you asked.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: So the the reason why I created the name MD Air, and air actually is a very important signal transduction pathway in the skin.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: And although I try to curb down my nerdiness in my scientific talk, I think I'm in a safe forum, and we all are science nerds and appreciate this, so I can speak to you like this.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we we all speak the same language, right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so MD Air, A-I-R-E stands for the antioxidant induction response element.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a signal transduction pathway in the skin that upregulates all of our cells to act and behave younger.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't usually like to use the term younger, I just like to use the term healthier because you know, younger skin is healthier because it hasn't had all the environmental insults and hits and, you know, exposure to toxins and pollutants and ultraviolet light that people who have had a longer lifespan have.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: So the goal is to induce these cells and the antioxidant induction response element to increase naturally our antioxidants in the skin to stimulate cellular renewal, to, in so many words, be out with the old and with the new, stimulate new collagen synthesis, new elastin synthesis, and remove and have our inflammatory and immune cascades come and circulate out the old, you know, um fragmented dysfunctional collagen elastin, all the extracellular matrix proteins that make the skin look weathered or older or, you know, kind of um not as bright or refreshed or healthy or useful as it as it used to be.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: So this certain signal transaction pathway is very uh important in the skin.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now, not only are we targeting the air pathway, but we're targeting hundreds of different pathways.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: That one just happened to be a more uh one of the newer discoveries.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was referencing that lecture that I sat in during that meeting, he was talking about the air pathway.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know what, this is my aha moment.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's very meaningful to me.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: I want this pathway upregulated and all my skincare products available to all my patients to have next level results, something that's never been done before.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're going to improve on all the pathways that we already have been upregulating and we've already perfected with what we already know about skincare and just make it better up the level, like just kind of advance our technology and advance our results and make it accessible to everyone without a middleman or a big pharma company trying to come and take it over.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that that that's how I came to um the name of the products MDR.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually a very scientific name for those of us who speak that nerdy language.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's it's it's a wonderful, wonderful um approach because I think that one of the biggest uh, you know, this is actually it's a fun little story, and I want to share it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're gonna know exactly what I mean, Dr.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Capital, because I I was sitting, I remember many, many years ago, sitting in my res one of my residency interviews, right?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And one of one of my doctors or one of the people interviewing me, he asked me because I was interested in the more research, like I wanted research in my residency, you know what I mean?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to do it, and um, he was asking me questions because he was doing that and as a as a surgeon.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And well, how would you design a project?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: He said, How would you design a project?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, super molecular about it, you know what I mean?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like really getting down into like these ideas I had.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, No, absolutely not.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, You need to think about things in a way where you're targeting a big big thing, and you're able to impact a lot of different things at the same time by doing that, and that stuck with me my whole life.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: It stuck with me, and he was right because what you're what what you've said here reminded me of that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because let's, you know, if we all sit down and think about it, how many times have you guys heard the word antioxidant?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Just by being on social media at this point, you've heard antioxidant, right?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone has and it's rightfully so, because it is behind the you know, the aging process of every single cell in our body, like Dr.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Cappel said.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're able to target something like that, that is really going to improve the whole mechanism of how your cells age.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, of course, like you said, Dr.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Campbell, there are so many pathways, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many different ways we can approach this.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: However, you have to come to some sort of a standard ground.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have to start from somewhere and you have to, it has to be a meaningful start.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: It can't just be like, oh yeah, we're just increasing collagen synthesis, that's it, you know, whatever.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna hope to God that this works and you get elasticity back, and you're, you know.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, you have to go and to go to the healthy cells and think, what can I do to keep these cells healthy?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I love how you said that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you said I like the word healthy, I don't like the word, you know, younger because you're so on the money with that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yes, we want to be healthy, and oxidative stress is one of the unhealthiest things that our cells go through day in and day out.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: So hats off to you for thinking like that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it just it blew my mind when you were explaining it.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, Oh, thank you.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think like, you know, when you think of the skin, you don't look at it as okay, there's brown spots, there's wrinkles, there's spin lines, there's large pores.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: You look at it like, okay, there's melanin that they're regularly, you know, distributed in the epidermis, there are as you know, fragmented elastin fibers, there's and how do we change that on the cellular level?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: So every every time I look at the skin or I look at a product, I look at it with like x-ray vision on a cellular level.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: How are we going to upregulate these cells to do what we want them to do?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have the two the key targeted actives, and then you have the vehicle delivery systems that protect them and get them there because half the skincare products that are available now, they just sit on the surface of the skin and there's no, you know, they're not even getting into where they need to actually have uh, you know, a mechanism of action and an effect on the skin cells.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, for me, that's why, you know, we did like a ton of like histology and comparative analysis.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, after using, you know, some of my products like the RXR retinol or the vitamin C, we'll look at histology, like actual collagen trichome stains and see the visible difference.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the skin will look better, of course, clinically, but like I want to see under the microscope, show me the histology, show me the stains.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I have a pathologist who I work hand in hand with, and I'm always sending him, you know, my poor mom has had had had so many skin biopsies after using my products because I, you know, I want to do collagen and elastin stains and just really like on a histological level, make sure that these actives are in the best form possible and having the greatest effect and staying active and you know, having their mechanism of action that we're engineering them to have.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that that's just Lost, you know, in the skincare industry.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel a lot of even my dermatology colleagues or even other physician friends of mine who, you know, will white label or make a line, they're not looking at that at all.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I just, I, I just don't know how, with the knowledge and education we have, how to not use that to our benefit and our patients' benefit as well.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a waste of education and knowledge to not just maximize it and just make the most amazing skincare products that you possibly can, especially, you know, knowing uh from a dermatologist standpoint, knowing what we know.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in our residency, we have to know every kilodole of every protein in the skin.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, every signal transaction pathway, every, you know, and so being able to take that knowledge and apply it for the greater good is something I'm really surprised not any any of my colleagues are doing, or no one else really that I know is doing.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I it's crazy to me too, because yeah, you guys have a really rigorous, you know, curriculum in your your residents.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've had friends who've gone through it and I'm like, how do you not remember that stuff?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like you should, you know, because I've had I've asked questions.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've asked questions and I'm like, I know I'm a science geek.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know the answers, but you should definitely know the answer.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I get it.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, you're so right because I think with you know, I think when it comes to, like you said, this real molecular level science, you know, people often overlook it and they don't think that it's adding up to clinical significance, but really that is clinical significance, isn't it?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, molecular biology, molecular topic.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, that's where I think there's a lot of disconnect in the dermatology, you know, dermatology community is that you know, you won't believe it, Dr.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Capel.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: I had an actual dermatologist once come onto my show and tell me I'm crazy for putting structures of niacinamide on my, you know, my things.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Are you are you serious right now?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: With all due respect, you know, so I get it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like everyone shies away from it.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I am not even, you know, I don't even want to blame the derms.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: I want to blame the marketing people out here because they're like the the the disconnect and the imbalance is that the people who truly know what the skin needs or truly understand and know the skin on a level that not many other people do aren't producing or making you know skincare products the way they should.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: For example, you know, uh dermatology residents, when they because I, you know, when I teach at UCLA, I speak to the residents and I and I see what they're exposed to.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: The companies will come in like vultures and try to pick them up and pick their brains and use their brain and their education to engineer skincare lines for these bigger pharma, bigger companies.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then what they do, because it's happened to me before too, they'll try to take what they get the inf they extract the information and education from you that they don't have and they don't have access to.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then they take what you give them and they try to cut corners, cut costs, you know, uh substitute actives for ones that are more readily available or at a lower price point.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then they just contaminate and dilute the skincare lines and even skink medical grade skincare lines.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I know medical grade's a controversial term, so maybe I shouldn't use that, but I know skincare lines in our industry that were probably top of the line four or five years ago have been recently bought out by bigger companies, and then the quality of the actives goes down.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: So the other, you know, reason why I wanted to engineer my own line is I wanted a protected product that I don't have to worry about bigger pharma, bigger companies taking over and reformulating the whole line because that's what businesses do.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're a money-making, you know, business.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, for the smaller, more educated, you know, physicians or scientists out there, we're not good with that stuff.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're horrible at business.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: We our brains are in the lab treating patients, you know, making discoveries.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then you kind of get hijacked by these bigger companies to say, okay, this is these are the these are the active ingredients you need, and this is the vehicle delivery systems you need to get there.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: But okay, let's cut costs and instead of doing this, let's get this.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's just this so disheartening um to see the integrity just not be there.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and those are most of the products that are available, and it's just really disheartening.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: It actually is very upsetting to me.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: So this is my little yeah, I'm sure it is to you too.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: You see it, you know it.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, it's it's it's a it's a terrible thing, and I and I and I hear you, and trust me, this is definitely a safe space to say that because I am a hundred percent with you on this because I literally see it every single day, and my mind does the same thing, like if everything you just said is exactly what I think.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what is going on?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you compromising your scientific and professional integrity because you just want to, you know what I mean?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: You just tell people things and you expect them to believe it, you know what I mean, in terms of I got it from a dermatologist somewhere at some time, right?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And now I've I have the money to market the hell out of this thing, and I'm gonna sell it to the masses and not explain anything to them, you know what I mean?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because really I don't get it.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get it because the guy who I got it from was some random derm in some random university, and I don't even know who he is because I'm not gonna give him credit.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's I mean, this happens every day, you know?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like it's a problem, and I feel and I feel like the consumers are the ones that miss out because they're the ones who are like, Well, how does this work?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: How does this really work?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's just so it's just so it's just so disheartening, and yeah, and it breaks my heart because I see patients every day, you know, in my clinic, and they'll spend hundreds of dogs, they spend so much money on these skincare products, and they say, Well, I haven't really noticed a difference, or it's breaking me out, or I'm still with hyper pigmented patches, and you know, and and they spend so much of their hard-earned money on these products and they're just not working, and it's just it really there's you know, there's it's just really disheartening to see um, you know, people spend their money on products that you know, maybe they have an A-list celebrity or an influencer backing it up, and that's why they buy it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: But half the time those influencers aren't even using those products, you know.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: So or if they're gonna charge those kind of prices, show me the histology, show me the science, or at least give me results within days of use if it's gonna be at this price point, you know, and it's it's really you can't use things.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can't use those words around people, though.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can't use the word histology, they'll run for the hills.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: You can't use that word, right?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have histology to show you, you know.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right, exactly.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that you've done such a great job building a community based on science because I think it's something that I've found as well is that when I was, you know, earlier on in my career, and you know, I started I have a YouTube channel and I have an Instagram, and I would try to tone it down and not speak too scientifically so that people would understand.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: But then sometimes I would slip and get super nerdy and show my dorky side and talk about the skin.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: And people actually liked it and they appreciate it.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't have to like hide that part of myself anymore.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have to hide the fact that I, you know, was kind of a science nerd and they actually appreciated it.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt like then I felt like I had the green light and it was okay, and I felt more comfortable talking in more scientific terms.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like even on YouTube, I now I can speak scientifically, and people don't even, you know, um shame me for it.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: They actually welcome it and they embrace it and they'll ask me questions.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like people who are really people who follow you, people who are really waking up and understanding like the science and how important science information is, and when you speak that language, they want to learn more, they want to know more.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I just feel like it's a beautiful community, you know, for you and for me, and finding like people who are like-minded and want to understand about the science because I felt for a long time that people really didn't care or want to know about it, or you know, were interested.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that it's it's something that people really do want to learn more about.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I I just love that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love that too.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: I completely agree with you.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: People really show up for this stuff.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I look at a lot of chemists, right?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I look at them like ranting about these ingredient long names, right?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Ingredients list and stuff, and I'm like, oh, you want to talk long names?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, guys.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can all do that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, you know, but at the same time, I think as doctors, we're more like we're more inclined to be like, no, explain it like the way people are gonna understand it, you know what I mean?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like we gotta break it down for people, but really we are doing an injustice to ourselves as professionals when we do that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I hear you and we're injustice to the people listening because the consumers want to hear about it, they want to know.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that you know, like you know, I had started us off a little bit with an overview, but I want you to dive into this pathway a little bit because um, you know, I know that there's like I said, there's translocation to the nucleus, it turns on ARE.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, yes, yeah, yes, definitely.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um, so going back to like the pathways, um, you know, when we have in you know, induction of these signal transaction pathways, you know, we always use the term, like for example, you had mentioned before antioxidant.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: You see that thrown all over the place.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: But when you really understand that antioxidants are binding free radicals that are otherwise just going to bounce around and fragment, you know, elastin fibers and fragment what we call the extracellular matrix proteins, which gives skin that nice bouncy, firm, smooth turgor, you know, those those are the are are the things that we we want, you know, to happen in the skin.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when we're increasing the air pathway and increasing um the amount of antioxidants in our skin that are kind of just going to be these little you know, army troops running through the skin and just binding up free radicals and protecting our collagen and our elastin and extracellular matrix proteins, it's you know, that's one of the most powerful aspects of the pathway.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: In addition, you know, um you know, when you mentioned the RXR retinol pathway and that the pathway that that um skincare product affects the skin.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: So what I wanted to do is, okay, we'll talk about retinol since you since you brought that up, and thank you for bringing that up.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: The problem with most vitamin A derivatives, whether it's tretinoin, you know, retin A, retinol, retinol diet, not so much because that one's not so irritating.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the problem is that it causes irritation, sensitization, you know, the red, dry peeliness and irritation of the skin.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: But that's because a lot of the uh product gets excreted into the extracellular matrix.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say extracellular matrix, for those of you who are just new to science, that's kind of when you think of skin as the cells being the vegetables and the extracellular matrix being the broth, like in a vegetable soup, the extracellular matrix is kind of like the broth part of the soup.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: So when you have a vitamin A derivative in outside the cell, it's going to recruit inflammatory cascades.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Your immune system cells become and just, you know, I hate to get too scientific, but like you sinophil to granulate and you know, a lot of um inflammatory and chemokine and different cellular mediators that are going to cause the skin to get irritated.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: But when you can engineer the vitamin A derivative to stay inside the nucleus of the cell and retain it in there, then you not only increase the efficacy of it, but you decrease the sensitization.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we were able to engineer the retinol product, and that's why it's called RXR retinol, because it stays within the nucleus of the cell and it can increase, you know, gene transcription and translation and expression of genes that are going to induce the skin to do all those things that we want it to do, whether it's collagen synthesis, elastin synthesis, cellular renewal, all those things.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And less of it is getting into the extracellular matrix where it's not only doing anything, but it's it's it's creating sensitization.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we're decreasing that, minimizing the sensitivity and the irritation component of it while increasing the efficacy.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that was one of um, you know, the most important um, you know, challenges that I wanted to overcome with a vitamin A derivative.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: And because I feel like a lot of people um don't want to have a vitamin A derivative in their skincare regimen, and rightfully so, you know, it can be very overwhelming and irritating to the skin, especially if someone's kind of new to the skincare game.
• 33:50
  unknown: Right.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that makes sense.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, it makes sense perfect sense to me.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I also wanted to just for everyone listening, I mean, I love what you said because I literally did a podcast, like, you know, I was on the other side of the mic, you know, a couple days ago, and they were the host was asking me about retinol.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they I literally, you know, obviously you explained it much better than I did.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I was just telling her that I don't use retinol because retinol causes inflammation.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not going to inflame my skin for absolutely no reason for it to then adapt six months later because now it's adapted and now it's actually you know able to handle the stress that I'm inducing.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I totally'm gonna label that as purging, you know what I mean?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not true.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: I hate that.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's totally true.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I agree with you.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I feel that a lot of people are just pushing retinal, pushing retinal, but they're giving it all depends on the type of retinol, you know, it all depends on the formulation and how it's packaged and how it's delivered, and you know, the elegance in the engineering makes a huge difference.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, even though my retinol is just a 1%, you know, it's a lot less um sensitizing or harmful than one that's an even lesser percent or even retinaldehyde because of the way it's engineered.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel that that's you know, I feel that that's a huge misconception.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad that you've illustrated that.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't agree more.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because why would you use a product that's continuously making you be red, dry, and peely for six months later when you might have a good day where you look better?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just not worth it.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then try to cover it up by saying, I'm purging.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like label it as you're purging.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's what a lot of skincare skincare lines do that, right?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Your skin's freaking out.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like when your skin is freaking out, it's freaking out.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally what it's doing.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's right, you know, and so I think a lot of consumers, I mean, I think that's where I love what you said, you know.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: I might you're using smaller amounts, but the what matters is that you are dosing the amounts to go to where they're supposed to go, and that's what matters.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this idea of dosing and this idea of delivering that dose to the right place is where, as a consumer base, as just a population of skincare enthusiasts, we have to get to a place where we understand that the ingredients you might see on the back of, like, you know, on an inky list, they don't tell you anything about the actual mechanistic actions of you know what's going on in that bottle.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, they don't tell you guys so don't exactly don't just look at an inky list and say, Oh, yeah, it's got this, this, this, and this.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to make sense, it needs to synergistically make sense.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like exactly what Dr.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Campbell said, like, you know, if you go to the nucleus, which is taking the actual active to the source of its activity, gene transcription and translation, yes, yes, exactly.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's that is more beneficial to you than just pouring it all up in that cytoplasm itself, you know what I mean, and not letting it, you know what I mean?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like spilling it, it's like a it's like a chemical spill.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I look at.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, with no effect, you know, you're not even getting the benefit of it, right?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: You're just like cleaning up the mess afterwards, right?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why, you know, some of the skincare lines are sloppy and that they're not elegant, they're not, they don't put slop into it, they're you know, and so um that's the effect, and unfortunately, we see that a lot in other skincare lines, yeah.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, what what about delivery mechanisms, Dr.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Kepler?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to talk about that because I know that your line is very sophisticated.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh obviously we we definitely see that, you know, but like how hard was that, you know, in terms of finding it.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was it was really difficult.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually have a personal chemist, it's just one chemist and myself, and we just work hand in hand.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're a small company, and you know, it's just a personal chemist that I have who actually sees eye to eye with me, and I can send him scientific literature and different papers and say, we need this vehicle delivery system and we need to, you know, tag it so it binds a receptor and it gets to where it needs to go by microencapsulating it and or whatever delivery mechanism we're using, whether it's folliculotropic or microencapsulation, then having it have almost a lock and key kind of mechanism where it binds the cells to go where we want it to go and we can flag it, we can tag it, we have complete control over that, which is really, I mean, it's hard to get, and it's hard to find a scientist to you know achieve that.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and my scientist who I work with is just phenomenal with that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's why these products work so well.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and and how I found him was I was approached by a pharmaceutical company when I was just fresh out of my fellowship, and they wanted to um, they wanted, of course, like we were talking before, they knew I was a dermatologist and they wanted me to help formulate a skincare product for them.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: And they were actually more in the drug delivery, like chemo, um, chemotherapy topicals kind of uh pharma industry, but they wanted to get into the skincare space as everyone else does.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and Hayley Bieber and Kim Kardashian, everybody wants to be in the skincare industry.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: So this pharma company, right?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: So this pharma company kind of we were on this call, and it was this very young but very bright scientist.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was myself, it was the CEO, it was the CFO, and it was kind of like the marketing uh manager, and we were all on a call together, just you know, kind of how you and I are right now.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: And they said, you know, okay, Doctor, what what how do we get these active ingredients into the skin?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: What active ingredients do we need?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Keep us updated, keep us innovative.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of gave them all my knowledge, you know, which was valuable information and um from years of education and so forth.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember the CEO saying, okay, we're gonna do this, but instead of this active ingredient, we're gonna outsource this.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a place in, you know, China that we can get this or we can get that.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he was just very but pretty much taking everything I told him and just making it a more cost effective, um, more which I mean you could see my just my smile dropped as I was on the phone with him.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I just said, you know, I don't think this is a good fit.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I'm happy to give you information to help you formulate a product, but if you're gonna try to, you know, cut corners and cut costs and just make cheaper alternatives to the actives I'm you know telling you about and um not wanting to, you know, really um appreciate the importance of the vehicle delivery systems, then I don't think this is a good fit.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, he was very upset and it was a whole heated discussion that went on.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: But the the chemist that was on the phone actually side messaged me and would say, Hey, you know, I I really want to talk to you, I really want to work with you, I love your ethics, I love your your your foresight, I love you know your whole ethos.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how I met him.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know what, let's just do it.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he was very young, very, very, very super smart and years ahead of his of his time and his level of intelligence.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: But it almost takes kind of that scientific, you know, mind and brainiact kind of uh persona to just really appreciate these certain um, you know, vehicle delivery pathways and things like that that I was I was discussing with them.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the way we get the products into the skin, it depends on the active and in the product.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: But for example, with the RXR retinol, we microencapsulate it and we flag it to adhere and bind to the cell, you know, where we want a targeted um, you know, endocytosis and just you know, kind of induction of the pathways that we're trying to induce where when it gets to where it needs to go.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, sometimes we have to um make vehicled liver systems folliculotropic like go through the hair follicle if they're too large of a molecule to pass through the skin.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I know some other um skincare lines um have used that technology, which is pretty advanced, which I think that you know has been um really beneficial.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say 80 to 90 percent of the skincare lines don't have those delivery systems, and 80 to 90 percent sometimes are just sitting on the surface of the skin, doing nothing but just irritating the skin, and that's why you don't get results, and that's why you know you'll get the you know, inflammatory cascades or the red dry peeliness or the sensitivities, but you won't get the effects.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I hope that answered your question, and I can go into it further.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, it's amazing.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you did.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love that you did what you did because that takes a lot of guts, first of all.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: So seriously, like you know, you really hats off to you, and I you know really applaud your true like ethics and morality and all of this because we need more of you.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I could clone you, honestly.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like for real, we do no, I mean it because I've seen it myself, you know what I mean?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think in medicine it's so easy.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think because we all go through such a long route to get to where we're getting, it becomes so easy for some people to just say, screw it, I'm gonna take the money and just you know what I mean, do whatever the hell they want me to do.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really hard for a doctor to say sometimes it's hard for people to say, no, I'm not doing it right through you and your shortcuts.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're not doing that.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's that's huge.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I really want the audience, you guys, you it's really that's that's huge, and it's very rare to see that.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, but uh you know, I I would actually want to um really commend you on this because I think the whole tagging thing when you're talking, I literally you took the words out of my brain because I was thinking about I've done a lot of research in um oncology, you know, and I've worked with like, you know, for example, glioblastoma, I've done a lot of work with global glioblastoma, and um a lot of the times I reference that research because of exactly what you said, which is the idea of if you cannot tag, you know, whether that's fluorescence tagging, whatever it is, you cannot track where your active is going, where that molecule is ending up, there is no such thing as actual cancer therapeutics.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's no such thing, you cannot go into any kind of cellular environment and not know what you're actually targeting and where it's going after it's targeted.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that by itself, I mean, if anyone out there knows any science like on this level, you'll that can tell you immediately because I don't see any other line doing that.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I haven't yeah, I don't know any of it.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Lock and key.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like lock and key, you know, it's just uh it's just how you enter and and how you protect it to get it there.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the first number one problem is having the active ingredient get to where it needs to go.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a challenge.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second thing is to unlock it.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not, you know, it it can have its effect where when you take it's almost like I always say it's like throwing an astronaut in a spaceship, and then he never gets out of the space, you know, or never completes his task once he gets there.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: You got to get there and then perform.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think those are the two components.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the reason I'm really lucky for this, the scientist that I work with, because of his um his uh experience working in pharma, where he was working with topical chemotherapy agents for skin cancers and more um drug delivery mechanisms for um medicinal purposes, we took that technology and applied it to skin care.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we're having delivery systems for skincare actives as we would for chemotherapy targeting skin cancer cells, you know, and having effect.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel that his background really gave me an advantage.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was really lucky to find him because I mean, you don't know how many companies have approached me saying, oh, we'll do this for half the cost, and we have a mass-produced lab in LA and we could, and I'm like, no, I would never want to compromise integrity.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'd rather be more customized boutique, like, you know, just very uh precise and elegant in the technology.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I just feel that it's it's hard to find.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I am lucky that I did find a scientist who had that background in um in another area of medicine for medicinal therapeutics for topicals and just applying that same science and medicine and technology to skincare for beauty, you know, for skin, you know, for skin active ingredients and skincare.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's a rare find, you know, it's a rare find to actually um, you know, encounter someone who does think on the same level as you do.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I was actually thinking when you were explaining um, you know, like the whole journey behind this.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about, you know, the original doctor who created uh Proactive, right?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: She ended up selling her brand.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when she sold her brand, she realized that the company she sold it to completely botched up everything.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: They took the haircuts.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: And she ended up buying back her company because she was like, I hate what you guys have done to it.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I did not create this for you to screw it up.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I like I was thinking about that because I'm like, you know what?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: That is how scientists think.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: None of us are ever going to just say, Oh, here you go, here's all this discovery.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and screw it up.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm gonna do that.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I love that, you know, I love that you're doing it the way you are.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're you're keeping that control, you know, the scientific control, because you need to do that, you know, in terms of creating like you know, maintaining efficacy is a whole like that's a whole different conversation, and it's something that no one wants to discuss.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you might have a product, a lot of you might have experienced this that are listening, you know, you have a product works for a couple of years, right?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then you might not know it, but somebody might have bought them out, and then all of a sudden you notice your product is not working anymore, and it's not really resulting in anything anymore, and you're not having the same effects.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's because of exactly what we're just talking about here.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody took that product and put shortcuts in it, and they took out the real science and they tried to substitute it, and that is just not-I mean, your body doesn't do that, guys.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the end of the day, your body doesn't say, 'Oh, well, this gene, nope, we're not gonna upregulate this gene, we're gonna replace it with something.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't do that, it doesn't take shortcuts.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we should not do that with our skin health, and we shouldn't do it with our health in general.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you ask me, but I hate to say go ahead.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, no, go ahead.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry about that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was gonna I was gonna say, Dr.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Capo, I mean, your products are so well priced, you know, for the the amount of um, you know, just the real intricate science behind them, they're so well priced.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how is that, you know, in terms of instead of you know, in terms of the business side of things, I'm asking, like, how was that?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I think, you know, I would never want to um compromise my active ingredients.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I and the active ingredients that we, you know, resource are from very like esoteric um places, and only, you know, only is the best of the best actives, which you know will end up affecting the price of the products.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: And people will say, Well, do you ever think about cutting the cost of your products and just kind of cutting the cost of the active ingredients that you're using?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, absolutely no, that's not something that I'll I'll budge with.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: All in addition, for all the testing and assays that we do in the lab, um, you know, it takes certain types of equipment in the lab to run assays and to engineer these products.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not only the active ingredients that can be a little bit more expensive, but definitely worth it, in my opinion, when you want to achieve next level results, but also the lab equipment that it takes to make these products and engineer these delivery systems and things of that nature.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Even the packaging, you know, airtight chambers that are nitrogen line that are going to maintain the integrity of the products inside the packaging, you know, is something that we have to consider.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's probably not the most cost-effective business, but that's not as important to me as the results that I can give to my patients and people who use the products.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that's, you know, yeah, I'm not I'm not the best business person, but you know, I just there's nothing more rewarding to me than to see a patient use it using my products or someone who maybe I've never even met giving, you know, as feedback saying, look at my before and afters.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't believe that I was able to achieve this just, you know, you know, with your products alone without me ever meeting them.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, that's just the greatest reward.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that is it's truly amazing.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it just goes to the hard work behind it.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that when it comes to topical products, people have a misconception.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: They are so used to, you know, for lack of a better term, shitty products, you know, and you know, and they just think that it doesn't work.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've had so many dermatologists argue with me about this that don't have lines, you know what I mean?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have their own lines, they'll be the first ones to be like, well, it doesn't work.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, you're wrong, because science says so, you know.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, and the reason for that is I'm not trying to be, you know, just mean or anything, but it's true.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you create something that's really try truly well formulated, well crafted, it's going to work.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, the thing is with skin, and I I've been wanting to say this for a long time, and I feel like this is the perfect episode to say it on, is that the skin is an organ.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: We do have a skin barrier, and you know, I know that there's it's very hard to cross that barrier, but at the same time, the skin is also very absorptive, it absorbs everything.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't make the claim that, oh, tropical products don't work, they do work, they always work.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean right.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, just like I said, what we were talking about before, looking under the microscope, using somebody who starts certain, you know, say they start a you know, LScorbic acid or vitamin C, I see under the microscope that it's definitely getting past the epidermis, that's the your skin bear into the dermis up for you, they didn't collage.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can see it visibly.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that to me is very striking.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if anybody ever argues that, I mean, there's no way you can argue a histology slide of a before and after where you can actually physically see this, you know, cytologic changes of a skincare product.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, I completely agree.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you I'm glad you you really validated that because I did for a long time.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: There were people out here that were like, oh no, it's a bunch of fluff, it's Mr.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, you're just trying the wrong lines, you know what I mean?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying the wrong line.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: And usually people who would say that honestly probably haven't completed a dermatology residency because that's a whole part of our residency, is understanding how to pipe bypass the barrier and how to, you know, we get that in our germ residency um training and didactics too.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: Just how, you know, not only for just skincare, but just for, you know, um topical uh treatments for different dermatologic conditions and dermatoses and things like that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's definitely, definitely possible.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: I hear things like that all the time.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that's just also, you know, an important point to bring up.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's just half these people on social media, or you know, the more YouTube followers they have, sometimes they get it through pharma or through companies, but they don't have the education and the the background to really be an expert, yet they have more exposure because they want a different path to get there.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that there's a lot of fear-mongering out there, there's a lot of fake science, there's a lot of misconceptions, and there's propagated misinformation all over social media.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel that it's I really commend you for having this podcast because I feel that people who follow you or listen to you or really understand the science, we're empowering them to question these so-called experts.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, why do you not have an aloscorbic acid in your vitamin C?
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I always tell people this eloscorbic acid is the hardest vitamin C uh derivative to formulate, but it's the most impactful of this in the skin.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: But most vitamin C's won't even contain an Loscorbic acid.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: They'll have a THD or they'll have another one that's easier to formulate, which really doesn't do much for the skin.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: But then the marketing uh teams and the companies will say, oh, or ascorbic acid isn't as important.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's not hard to formulate.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's why you're saying that, you know.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just, but they'll propagate this misinformation to, you know, to increase their sales.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then people believe them or people are misinformed.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just, it's just not right.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like the Durham Science police half the time on social media is saying, this is not correct.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I try to provide a safe forum even on my YouTube channel where people were asking me, like, hey, Dr.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: Capel, I saw this.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Is that true?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, and I'm glad you asked, and this is why.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like, you know, as long as we can keep educating, um, you know, and kind of uh, you know, um promoting the real science and real scientific concepts, um, I think that we're doing good in the world in this very corrupt industry that's kind of getting out of control.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree with you.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I mean, you really, really said it, you know, it's it's really about just the truth, you know.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Science is, you know, I think I always I always quote Neil deGrasse Tyson, and I don't even mean to do it because I'm a fan, but Neil, I mean, come on, this quote is like, you know, it's like the only quote I remember.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: But he always said science doesn't care, you know what I mean?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't, it doesn't care if you like it or not, it doesn't care if you agree or not, it is what it is, and it's true, it is what it is, you know.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really think he got that from Carl Sagan.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna say that also.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean at the same time, it's true what he said because God science doesn't care.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I really believe that you know, when you guys are, you know, going through our library here at Skincare Anarchy, that's what I like to call us.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: I we're a podcast, but we're really a library of information, you know.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: When you're going through it, you need to start deducing for yourself what is applicable.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, science is great, but if you can't apply that science, it's useless.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have applicable, you know, clinical data that's actually backing up the claims that these companies are making, and you need to start thinking on that level and you thinking in that direction because there's gonna be a lot of companies out here, and I'm sure you know, Dr.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Havel, you've seen it, they'll push one ingredient.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they'll say vitamin C is the holy grail, that's all you need done.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not, it's not, it's not.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's this thing called synergy of ingredients that you have you have to ask these questions.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the end of the day, I don't want just niacinamide on my skin.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want a lot of different things on my skin, you know.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want the humectin, I want the niacinamide, I want the brightening ingredients.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have to have a beautiful cocktail, and even within that cocktail, like Dr.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Capel explained, you have to have the right, you know, versions of those molecules, the right, you know, like molecular structures that are going to be able to interact together in a synergistic way.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's just that is science, you know, that's what it is.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I'm I'm a huge fan, Dr.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: Capital.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a huge fan of MD Air.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you're doing is so novel.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a it's a breath of fresh air for lack of a better firm.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's a breath of fresh air in this industry, and I can't wait to see your your brand blow up.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I really encourage everyone out there, check out the whole line, you guys.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful collection.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's even a neck product, you know, neck cream product in there.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we experience a lot of aging in the neck area, in the decolleté area, you know, as you know, as we age.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm in my you know mid to late 30s now.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing it myself, you know.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great that you know you've started off the brand in such a beautiful way.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just want to ask you as a closing question, you know, what can we expect to see next from you guys?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna are there more products on the way or what?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you so much.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for for asking.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: And just I can agree with everything that you just said more about science and everything working together and the synergistic effects of all the different products.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just one product or one access.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't agree more.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um to to see what to expect from the company moving forward or for MBR moving forward is just to keep everyone updated with any advances in technology.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm always constantly going to meetings, reading the literature, you know, and and attending meetings.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I will continue to bring the new technology and advances that we are learning in real time and then put them directly into our products and updating the products so that you'll always be getting the newest, latest, and greatest in advances with our finger on the pulse without the middleman, without a three-year delay.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what you can expect from our company.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: New products that we're coming out with, um, we're gonna have a more hydrating barrier repair uh hydrator that's a little bit more for like the dry fall and winter months or people with a little bit more sensitive skin or an impacted skin barrier.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to have an exfoliating, we're gonna call it the exfoliating cloud because it's gonna be a gentle exfoliating um product that you know could be used once or twice or three times a week for exfoliation.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna come out with a new lip mask as well, because I feel like getting into the dry uh months ahead, um, that's gonna be that's something that that we're lacking.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I think our promise as a company would always just be to maintain that integrity in uh an industry that's been so overtaken by pharma and companies and cutting corners and not very highly trained people claiming to be experts and so forth.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um, like you said, science doesn't lie, and science makes itself apparent.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: So after using BMD or products, you'll see changes in your skin, and that's fact.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to ask if it's working, you don't have to, you will know your friends will compliment you on your skin.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: You'll look in the mirror and say, okay, this is what healthy skin is like when you know, when it's given the right, you know, actives and stimulants and nutrients that it needs.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: And science doesn't lie.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the results are are real life, and and um hopefully you'll be able to experience them.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thank you for your support and um and just had such a great time talking with you today.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, likewise, thank you, and thank you for doing what you're doing.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really cheering you on.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't wait to see what's coming up, and I cannot wait to get my hands on that mask because that is my favorite care product.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, I'm really excited and I love the line.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've tried it myself for everyone listening out there.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful, beautiful line.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I really encourage you guys if you're looking for something that's actually going to cause real results for you.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: Changes, good changes, this is it for you.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta try this one.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's really, really great.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: As you can you've heard here, it's very well thought out.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I really encourage everybody to check out the brand, ask questions if you have any questions, chime in.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: We'll pass them along to Dr.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: Kapel's team and get some answers from her or her team directly for you.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I really encourage you again, check them out, and I will tag everything in the concept art for this episode.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to your responses.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Dr.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Capil, and it's been a true honor.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's been an honor and privilege for me as well.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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