Latest / WoT Spoilers / Prince of the Ravens & Remember the Old Saying - Knife of Dreams chapter 37 & Epilogue - EP509

Transcript

Prince of the Ravens & Remember the Old Saying - Knife of Dreams chapter 37 & Epilogue - EP509 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of time spoilers bloodcast. All right,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: shall we make Spoduncle Happle happy and actually talk about
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Prince of the Ravens?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Nah? I think we should make Spoduncles specifically unhappy and
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: keep bullshitting about ancient cities.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Speaking of trash, looks like Matt is going to take
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: some out in this chapter. Yes, do you like that transition? That?
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: That was pretty good?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: That was good. That was good, That was good. We
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: are dealing with some trash people. Cleaned them the fuck
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: up in.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: A very risky strategy, by the way reading through it
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: the whole be surrounded and shoot them and you can
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: like stand up long enough while you're crossbowman shoot them like.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: This has always been one of the battles that most
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: like I was best, most able to understand, but least
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: able to like understand, right right, Like, I have a
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: hard time with battles, But with this one, I'm like, no,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I get what's happening. I actually am following the action,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: But what the fuck are you doing?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Maw Yeah?
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, deliberately letting yourself get surrounded and choosing not
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to wear armor. Yeah, at the same time, like right,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: those two decisions, like I get one or the other.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: But the part where he left himself no bolt hole
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: and didn't bother to like buff up his ac like, dude,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: what are you doing?
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Also, I'm like, okay, I said, I you're I feel
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: like I'm finally in danger now. I would feel in
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: danger the second there was an army charging at me
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: right like why yeah, Like, I'm sorry.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: This If a man twenty feet in front of me
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: just had an arrow go through his eyeball, I am
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: very much in.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Danger exactly, exactly exactly, So okay, let's talk about it.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Do I'll do a read in all right, Right, we'll
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: get there.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of blood, blood battles, but a lot
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: of politics and people's stuff too that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: We're getting ahead of you. Yes, we are read a.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Chapter thirty seven Prince of the Ravens aka Matt Coffin,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: And our symbol is the dice because it's a Matt.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Chapter and it's a gamble of a chapter.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Leaning Prince of the Rivers, leaning on the tall pommel
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of his saddle Ashendar I slanted across Pip's neck. Matt
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: frowned at the sky. The sun was well past its
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: noon height. If Vannon and those death Watch guards did
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: not return soon, he might find himself fighting a battle
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: with the sun in the crossbowman's eyes, or worse, in twilight.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Worst of all, dark clouds loomed over the mountains to
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the east. The gusting wind was out of the north.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: No help there. Rain would put the weasel in the henyard.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Bowstrings fared poorly in the rain. Well, any rain was
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: a few hours off with luck, but he had never
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: noticed his luck saving him from getting soaked in a downpour.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: He had not dared wait until tomorrow. Those fellows hunting
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: two on have gotten another whiff of Kared's men, and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: then he would have had to try attacking them or
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: laying an ambush and carried out before they could catch Kared.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Better to have them come to him at a place
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: of his choosing. Finding the proper spot had not been
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: difficult between Master Rhodell's collection of maps on one hand,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: and Vannon and the other scouts on the other. Eludra
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: was fussing over one of her tall metal bound lofting tubes,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: beaded braids hiding her face as she examined something at
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: the broad wooden base. He wished she had been willing
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: to remain with the pack animals like Tom and mistressn On.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Even Noel had been willing to stay, if only to
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: help Julian and Amathera make sure Oliver did not run
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: off to watch the battle. The boy was dead eager,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: which could soon lean to plain dead. Matters had been
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: bad enough when only Harnan and the other three had
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: been corrupting Oliver, but now he had half the men
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: teaching him how to use a sword or a dagger,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: or fight with his hands and feet, and apparently filling
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: his head with tails of heroes from the way he
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: had been behaving, begging to go on raids with Matt
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: and the like. Aludra was near as bad. Anybody could
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: have used one of those strikers to let a fuse
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: once she had loaded that tube, but she insisted on
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: doing it herself. She was a fierce woman, Ludra was,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: and none too pleased at finding herself on the same
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: side as sean Chan, however temporary the arrangement was. It
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: seemed wrong to her that they would see some of
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: her handiwork without being on the receiving end. Llewellyn and
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Dolman sat their horses nearby, keeping an eye on her
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: as much to make sure she did nothing foolish as
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: to protect her. Matt hoped Lewellen did nothing foolish herself.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Since there was apparently only one Shawn Chan with the
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: people they would fight today, she had decided it was
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: all right to be there, and the way she glared
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: at Musing and the other death watchguards, it seemed she
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: might think she had something to prove to them. I
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: think we'll stop there.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I like those two paragraphs. It's good. It's good characters,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: good characters.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is just this is peak Matt character,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: with all of his menagerie around him, right, all the
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: people he's collected.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like what we were talking about in
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: the last chapter with Cared how it's fun to see
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: these characters in their leveled up position from unfamiliarize. It's
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: also good to see our leveled up care from within
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: familiar eye. Yes, yeah, we're kind of like looking at
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: the same thing Caried saw through the more familiar eyes
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: of Matt, but seeing things like Oliver really being leveled
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: up because right, Kreed didn't know anything about Oliver, he
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: doesn't care about Oliver. But Matt's looking at Oliver going
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: oh shit, kids level five yep, like he's come up
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: in the world and seeing a Ludra's progression, which again
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Kared has no context to understand Aludra through but like
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: she she's like multi classing at this point or whatever. Right,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: and it's again it's like we're on the brink of battle.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: We're on the brink of everything going to hell, and
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: this is our final form. And Matt looking around at
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: his team going, this is what I have to work with.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I think I got this is is good. It feels good.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously he's not working with Oliver. He's terrified
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: for Oliver. But like you know in broad right, and.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: So what he's setting up is this battle, right, He's
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: trying there's this group of people who want to hunt
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: down too On and he's trying to kill now. And
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the numbers are kind of insane, but he said, I
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: think he's far out numbered, and he's depending on his
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: ability to pump out a lot of crossbows and bolts
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: very quickly, having channelers on his side, and having fireworks, explosives, grenades.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Essentially, he is relying on deception and surprise to make
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: this battle work, right, he has been lying to the
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: shan Chan this whole time. With the way that he's
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: used his resources, he's really really set up them to
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: believe something else. I mean, even his allies on the
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: shon Chan side start up being like how many people
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: do you have? And he's like vague answer, And then
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: at the end of the chapter, the guy is like
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: you never had more than this, did you? And MAT's like,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I said I had enough, And dudes like, oh shit,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: you are such a boss. Want a mic drop? And
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: so that's what this is, right, This is Matt saying, oh,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: poor me, I just have a few people and just
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: a few weapons. And wouldn't it be a shame if
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I actually had tripled the hitting power that you think
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I do per soldier? Wouldn't that be unfortunate for you?
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Because because Massonge is like I heard you have
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: thirty thousand troops. That's the only way you've been able
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to would be able to put out the volume of
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: crossbow bolts that you have put out? Where are they bring?
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Like this is the time to use them? And Matt's like,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I got enough. I don't need all I don't need
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: thirty thousand.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Right, And then Mussen sees everyone firing three bolts for
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: everyone that he anticipated and is like, I can do that.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh he only had ten thousand, yeah right.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And the other part of this, too, is not just
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: that Matt has really strong firepower. It's that he looks
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: incredibly vulnerable, right, That's the other half of this is
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: that he has positioned himself to look like a poorly
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: defended tuon caravan. That's what he set himself up to
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: look like, is like, way too few people to protect
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: the package, right, Like, this is a big part of
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: how he gets them to rush is by looking way
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: more helpless than he is and like lying to them
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: in all these like complicated ways such that like you know,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: two one is a day away, right, Like he says
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: he only has to give her a day or to
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: head start on whatever. He doesn't kill, and obviously he
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: kills everyone, so that's moot. But yeah, right he you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: he gets them running too fast to stop basically by
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: looking really helpless. And then it's like one of those
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: it's like the colon ambulance, but not for.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Me, right right, right right, It's that it's the vampire
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: following Buffy into an alley, right.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Very very it's like, you're way too small and delicate
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: to be oh.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Rolling forest crap, And so he sets it up. It's
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: essentially a two mile killing field, right, and it's bordered
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: on all four sides, so you know, the north is
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: a swamp, to the west is a lake, right, neither
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: witch of passable. The rest of it's surrounded by a
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: river that you know, horses are gonna have to swim, so.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Right, not easily forded. You can do it, but not
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a battle.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Right, And then they build the sort of the wall
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: appears unfinished, but it is there to slow them down
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: and stop them. Like it works effectively as a partial wall, right.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it adds to the topographic difficulty. Yeah,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't slow them down much, but it's
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: not nothing for sure. And also the other part of
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: this is that he has Tamanus stashed on the other
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: side of the field, right, the one side that like
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: has forests. Right, he has a bunch of Tumansi's people
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: stash over there. So that way they literally crush this
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: army between the two of them. So like he doesn't
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: even he's literally like has half his forces not visible, right,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So helpless.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, And I think that they create as
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: much confusion as anything else. Right. Not only is that
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: force behind them crushing them, but then you have a
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: bunch of people who are charging forward all of a
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: sudden stop to charge backwards, right, right, but only half
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: of them, right, and then some people stopped bows.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. It just just.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Creates a what was a cohesive charge into just a
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: chaotic mess of soldiers.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he's doing psychological war on top of
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: like physiological warfare. Right, He's very good commander. I mean
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: we even see in the opening paragraph he's just casually
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: sun zooing over this, you know, like, well, clearly you
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: want to make the enemy come to you any time
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: of right, obviously that's the way to do it. Like
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: he's not even quoting anyone at that point, but I'm like,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I see the sun zoo. I see it. I see
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: it because that's just who that is.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And we get account of his casualties. Right, he's lost
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: nearly a thousand people, like four hundred crossbowmen and five
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: hundred cavalry. Right, that is not a lot, that's a lot,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: but like the number of people he's taken down number
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: like a hundred thousand.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's not that, but it was enough to get
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: the whole ass army moved, so clearly there's a lot
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: of zeros. I don't think it's one hundred thousand, though
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I don't remember. I'm bad with numbers.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, the idea that Massange thinks he has thirty
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: thousand troops means he has to put out that many arrows,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: and the fact that they he's done it in multiple
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: times means like multiple thirty thousand, thirty thousand in quote
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: troop attacks comes to or maybe it's just all the
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: small attacks happening in all the various places, but still
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: it feels like they're doing you know, they've killed tens
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: of thousands of people.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's more like. What it is is
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: he's lost almost a thousand in exchange for get like
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: maybe a dozen thousand, right, like a really incredible rate,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: but not one hundred.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I was trying to figure out what that
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: rate was, right, like how many people.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing it's like in the one to ten at most,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: like as many as that because he's being very effective,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: but not one to a thousand.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And looking at the numbers, man it is the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: one thing that I feel like the armies got smaller
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: in the last battle, just the number of troops were
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: talking about in these early in these in these battles,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: in the various places where Matt and Parrien and Rand
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: are fighting, and then you get small much smaller groups
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: end up in the last battle. And I'm like, what
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: happened to all the armies?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Well, I feel like they were escalating in size at
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: an unsustainable pace for the total population. Yeah, continents, and
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: they kept dying, right like the armies kept beating each
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: other to death. So like we're not talking a generation's
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: long story. We can't be replacing the normal way.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, But I mean also like everybody's joining the army, right,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Like in the last book, everybody joins the army. Right,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: every farmer picks up a sickle and makes it a spear.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Every single person is marching north. Right, There's the only
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: way to eat is to join an army.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Right right. Yeah. No, it's uh one of those things.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I just glazed my eyes just glaze over. I'm just
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: like whatever the author wants me to believe, I will believe.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Like whatever.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: It does feel a little pedandic, but yeah, there was.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: There was some some times where I think the the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: battle could have been more epic in terms of having
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: like he puts it all on one field, right, the
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: field of Mari Lore, and it just doesn't necessarily feel
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: big enough to contain that battle.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: It's multiple battlefronts. There's the thing with Elaine, that's not
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: the fields of Marylor. She's like back in and or
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: fighting for Camlin.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Well, because remember there's the four battles that are with
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: the great generals that are all then lost and everybody
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: comes back together for the one final battle of the
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Fields of maryl Or under.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Matt Yeah, yeah, I don't know numbers and spatial references.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just content to let the author lead
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: me around by the nose.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I'll try and do some research, but yeah, I agree,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: it is It's like, uh, it's just one of those things,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: one of one of the many complaints. I'm like, oh Sanderson.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah. This is one of the reasons why
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I'm really jazz that I got that book of Michael
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Livingstone's in the Raffle at Waltcon is because I'm hoping
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: that he will be able to walk me through at
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: least one Battlefield in a way that makes it make sense,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: because I'm not generally good with that sort of thing.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I'm trying. I'm fascinated by military history, but I'm horrible
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: at comprehending it. And I'm really hoping that if I
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: ever get around to reading that book, that Michael Livingston
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: will be able to like help with that. And then
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and then I can watch the panel from this Last
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Walk On where he talked about the Last Battle Ah,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: which I have not I haven't watched any of the
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: panels because I'm a bad fan. I'm actually a fake fan.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not a real fan.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I just well.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: One of the things about Early there's very few actual
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: battles in Wheel of Time. This is one of the
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: reasons I'm very fascinated with this one is we're actually
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: getting into like before Brandon took over, right, Jordan wrote
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: very few battles, Like he wrote a lot of fights
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: between Rand and a Forsaken, but those weren't battles. A
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: lot of times you're seeing the battle Ran comes back
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and goes, oh is the battle over? Okay? Great? Or
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the battle was won by some great you know, wave
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: of rolling.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Earth and rolling ring of earth and fire well, be right.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like they're not necessarily battles, but there are fights
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: between people with one power.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Right yeah, yeah, following the blow by blow of a
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: military encounter. Is It's hard though. I mean, there is
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: one channel on YouTube that I follow weirdly through this
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: community because they liked our channel. That's right, ye yeah,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: kings in generals, it has nothing to do with real
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: lot of time. Well, they do a lot of fantasy
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: stuff though. They actually will do fantasy battles like from
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: like Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings or whatever,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: like they'll treat it with the same intensity as they
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: treat actual historical battles. It's very cool. They have started
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: to get my brain a little bit able to comprehend
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: battles because they do like little blocks moving across maps
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: and like it's very cool. But still it's yes, you're right,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: this is a really fun amount of detail from Jordan
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: to try to apply that thinking too.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's rare that he goes into this much detail
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: about the battles themselves.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he really wanted to show Matt being smart.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: And what's interesting too about that he gives the command
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: demand of win, he literally sits back and does nothing
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: the whole fight. He does not fight, He does not
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: call out commands, he does not change strategies. He literally
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: just like sits back and watches everyone do their thing
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: and is just sitting in his captain chair watching all
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: the screens.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: But he set it up ahead of time.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely, It's amazing, Like he has graduated to that
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: level of generalship where he's like, not only am I
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: not swinging a sword in the mud on the front lines,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not even making the calls for when the arrows
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: get loose, Like I have delegated every single thing and
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I am simply here to respond if nothing goes according
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: to plan, And like he just watches and it's like,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: on the one hand, I'm like, how dare you not
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: do something? On the other hand, I'm like, holy shit,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: you did so much ahead of time that you have
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: nothing to do during the fight. That's kind of incredible.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: The ultimate wedding planner having just gotten married, wedding and
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: battles for some reason right together there in my head,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Matt would agree, and Mat would agree yeah then so yeah,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: the idea that like you can you can plan a
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: wedding or in any engagement enough ahead of time, that
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: you don't have to do anything in the moment because
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: everyone knows their role ahead of time and executes on
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: it perfectly. Is you know, seems ridiculous and like a dream,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: but he does it. Yeah, without armour on, by the way.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I genuinely they would have added a breastplate if I
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: was going to sit like that in the middle of
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: the thing. But that's just me.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: And with a quote, a general who draws his sword
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: is put aside his baton and become the common soldier. Okay,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: but we're not talking about swords, we're talking about armor.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Put on alan ye yeah, yeah, just a little bit.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: And I get maybe there's some sense of immortality because
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: you can be healed, but that doesn't like being healed.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: So now it's his sense of immortality because he's lucky
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: plot armor. That's yeah, he's he's pulling in the lane
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: here and being like, but.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: My luck yep, as as Vouji said, he's got plot armor.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Physical armor would just be a bother to look about.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: So and he knows he's got plot armor.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: He's got his luck, right, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Did
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: you notice the part where he was he's talking about
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: the feeling of being married and how it feels like
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: you should be different. I don't feel different as a
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: recently married man, like you can confirm. I mean, I've
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: been married for a long time. But I can also confirm. Yeah.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: People keep asking me, like, what's it like being married now,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and like, do we on my fingers a little different?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I don't, Like, you know, we still were living our
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: same lives, right, Like we we go to work, we
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: love each other, we live together, and nothing really changed
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: about that, right.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: We're done planning a wedding. We're not planning a wedding.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: That's how it feels to be.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: It's very nice.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is actually like, that's like the biggest feeling,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: right is like I'm no longer.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Anticipating a big event, the.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Big gathering and the socializing and all of the That's
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: the biggest difference is that that is now no longer
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: dominating your life. And Matt didn't even have that, so
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: it's extra like, yeah, no, Matt, nothing would change aside,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: well no, what Matt had was the dice and the
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: lingering dread of when is she going to say it?
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: That's the only thing that's different for him is now
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: he knows now he doesn't have to wonder because it happened.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Although I feel like the dice is probably kind of
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: an accurate Like this rattling in my head for months
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: before the wedding seemed pretty accurate.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that does actually sound like a good analogy for
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: just the constant anxiety of wedding planning. It's the rattle
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: of dice.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Hmmm. No, Booji says big response is sharing Steam libraries
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: felt like a bigger change. Yeah. I think our biggest
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: change is we merged our photo libraries because we both
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: have Apple and we did a shared family photo library,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I have years of photos
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: on my phone that I didn't take.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, that is a real big change.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: And we're doing that, and like there's a couple of
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: other things we merged together. Still working on the name change.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the name change, i'd say would be the most practical,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: but like, yeah, but yeah, it's it's funny how much
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: marriage does and doesn't feel different.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: If anything, I think what we talked about the most
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: is just the feeling of safety. It's like there's no
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: there's this. We are both we have committed, and that
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: gives the other person, this feeling of relief and ease,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: which Matt doesn't have because he has a very different
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: relationship with two on. Yeah, there's no like, oh now
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: we can relax with each other. It's like, oh, now
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: she can make me doc ovail if she wants to write, Like.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, that was That's one of his lines, is
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: like he's not going to go anywhere where she has
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: the upper hand with her talk of cupbearers, like yeah,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: there's no security in that. Yeah I'm married, and I'm like, ah, yes,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: this person will like look out for me and take
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: care of me and make sure that I like don't die.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Matt's like I might get enslaved or killed. Like that
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: is very different. And then they make jokes in the
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Sanders and books about how it's going to keep their
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: relationship interesting because she's like, I have technically pregnant, so
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: now I can kill you. And I'm like, girl, have
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: you heard of the miscarriage?
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: But like one in six woman get it together. But
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: it's it's a weird thing where like, oh, yes, we're
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: gonna have like violent tenship like mister and missus Smith
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: at our relationship, just like that's not the kind of
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: marriage I would want to be in. I like that. Yeah,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: comfort feeling of having a partner rather than a adversary
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: like being married to a praying Manton. Basically not comforting.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: So Demandrad shows up with two O gear I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, Fannon,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: which are of course, those were the ones that he
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: borrowed from you, your creed to mislead these people, and
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: so you like, I need some of your death Watch
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: guard and that's who these people.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Are, specifically the O gear because they can run as
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: fast as a horse and are indubitably the target.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: And of course Vannon's with them, which is just like, yeah, again,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: there's no way a horse could run that fast with
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Vannon's bulk if it was real. He has to be
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: a man in a mask of mirrors.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it couldn't be that. He's just really good at
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: picking his horse.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: No, nope, nope, irrefutal evidence right there. Uh, but Vannon
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: is being cool in his own right, right. He's just
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: a badass, is what it boils down to.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's the understated badass. It's character. And he
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: takes care of animals. He you know, he's a good
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: guy because he takes care of animals. He gets there
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: with the important information and he has Matt come to
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: him to get the information because the more important thing
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: is to walk his horse to right down.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Get Yeah, critical military information, come over here and receive
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: it while I take care.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Of my horse. Yeah. It is the amount of horses
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: that do die in this uh tragic. Yes, Yeah, the
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: poor horses get fucking brutalized because just especially with the explosives, right,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: because they're just creating shrapnel with the explosives. Aludra, she's
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you know, she very quickly figured out how to you know,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: which like the most dangerous modern bombs or i U.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: D's that are wrapped in Sorry.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: The most dangerous thing is society is the ID But
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I knew what you meant.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Oh god, I want to make a bad joke about both.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Oh god, oh man, I'm fully in supportive of those IEDs.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, can be wrapped in metal and
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: extremely deadly that way, because you're great shrapnel more so
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: than the explosive force.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing, right, is Like anything that's hard
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and moving fast is dangerous. So yeah, you wrap like
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: gravel around a firework. Yeah, you've created a problem for
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of people. And it doesn't matter where they explode,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: like at head height, on the ground overhead, like, it
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: doesn't really matter because that grape shot is going out
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: in a circle in a sphere around that explosion.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Although in the air is going to be much more
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: deadly than on the ground because on the ground half
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: that explosion is going into the dirt.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, for sure, for sure, but it's it's handy for
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: the sling men that they don't have to have the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: timing perfect, you know, just sling them out there wherever
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: they fall, it'll wherever they explode in that trajectory, it
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: will be effective. And it's terrifying. Yeah, like these horses
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: first of all, Like I just have issues with the
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: concepts of horses in warfare. That just seems really like
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: I understand you can turn them into tanks, but like,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: good lord, it's just really like the concept of horses
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: in war just bothers me. But then yeah, the first
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: time that a horse experiences gunpowder in warfare, like that's
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that's a battle for the history books of cavalry, right,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Like horses have to be trained to be okay with explosions,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: that's not a thing horses are naturally chill about.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Right right. Yeah, they don't really talk about how the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: horses must be going absolutely freaking nuts with these explosions happening,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: and how much that would disrupt the charge so much.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I got people crashing into each other on
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: their own side, you know, like yeah, absolute chaos.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: So Matt's kind of hoping like, hey, they rode their
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: horses too hard, maybe they'll see like it's this, they're tired,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: it's time to go home, and that would be fine
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: because their horses are foundered. Then I want to have
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to kill them or their horses and they can't catch
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: up with two On. Mission accomplished, we can all go home,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: battle avoided. That's not what happens.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all he wants is enough lead time for two
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: ON to get away. He's like, I don't need to
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: kill you. Don't make me kill you. He's basically sets
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: up but don't make me kill you situation, and they
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: make him kill them.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah they do. Oh, by the way, van and dread evidence.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Others might go around calling him lord and highness, but
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: not shale Vanon. Who else doesn't call people lord and ladies?
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Who else will not bend the knee. It's forsaken. Yep,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: he makes a water it's water water tight. That is
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: one of the clues that Forsaken refuse to bow down
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and like submit themselves when in disguise.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna ignore the part where he had a
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: weird soft spot for a lane and would call it lane,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: my lady. We're just gonna ignore that because that that
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: is not water tight. So we're gonna throw it out.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: That's how science works.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: That's just the Andred compelling people to think he like
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: loves the lane.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: It's compulsion totally, totally and being kind that I mean
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Demandrad's Yeah, I mean we see Demandrad later. Right. He's
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: not a terrible person. He would kill animals to for war,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: but he cares about animals. He would see them as
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: a valuable asset.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: If any of the Forsaken, we're gonna be kind to animals.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Demondred Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you ask me, which of
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: them is the least likely to kick a puppy Demondred
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: obviously obviously.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: He wouldn't see the need for it. Yeah, unless it
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: was unless it was Lewis Thearren's puppy, then he would
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: kick the shit out of it.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: But that's not kicking a puppy. That's hurting Louis. Then
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: it's different. That What a stupid distinction.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I hate myself, then, you know, don't at me. I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: obviously know shille Vannon's not demandrad. It's just a funny
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: joke that he keeps having more good evidence.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do think as Modian would be the next
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: most likely to not hurt animals because as long as
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: the animals aren't actively interrupting his concert, he doesn't care.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Right, animals can't sing, He can't be jealous of animals.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly, he can't be in competition with animals.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Although I can't see him going like songbird hunting.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's angry. He can't whistle that gut. Yeah
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: trophy songbird hunting.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Fuck you, Yeah, take down the birds. And they also
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: have their pretty decorative feathers, their little gleaming cloaks.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Hmmmmm, yeah, it has to be the best. Justs peacock
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: in this book. Yes, would totally feastood orderline or however,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: you say that the dish that was in the show
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: with the bird.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they eat the bonones and everything that.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as MODI would definitely eat that anyway.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: So Ever, since I found a GWayne and her stool
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: was sort of analogy for the ambulance seat with the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: folding leg, right, I always look at like, what are
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: people sitting on? Because I feel like Jordan likes to
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: make analogies about the person based on what they're sitting on.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: So Jolene's horse, her dark Bay gelding, looked a war
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: horse but was not. The animal had a good turn
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: of speed, yet its temperament was mild as milk water.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think Joline the green who's not actually looks
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: like a war horse but still pretty mild mannered.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's not mild mannered, but yeah, she's way
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: less effective in battle.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's what I'm trying to say is it's like, yeah,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: betrays herself as his war horse, but really not particularly
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: effective as a green.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She's much more on the fucking and partying side
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: than on the war side.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she likes the fuck boys, not necessarily the fight boys.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, she does not like the fight boys, although she
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: does have fight boys because of course, right her fighting
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: boys are very fighting boys.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Oh I just I read that and I was like
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: that kind of does apply to Joline as well, just
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: a little bit.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and particularly with horses, like Robert Jordan definitely makes
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: it a point to tell you something about the rider
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: when it comes to horses, when he puts a lot
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: of description into a horse's temperament or like how it
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't fit this or that criteria that Matt would like.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Especially when we're in Matt's POV. It's like Matt as
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: women by their boobs, and he judges people by their horses,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: right right, right right, like I mean, you know, we
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: see like with a lane being like, oh, this horse
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: gives me the ick, I don't want to ride it anymore.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Like obviously it's not every time there's a person on
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: a horse, but Robert Jordan tends to like to communicate
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: something about the person by his choice of horse description.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I mean Suwan and Bella right like.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: She right, I mean the razor was a whole thing like, oh,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: like the temperament of this unique interesting horse goes with
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: this unique interesting tu Wan person right like, so yes,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I definitely think that the looks like a war horse
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: but absolutely sucks at war is definitely a double meaning
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: for the rider as well, although in fairness, she does
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: blast as good as any of the other Eyes that
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I here. It's just that they're all kind of pathetic
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: on the war, right.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: That's we talk about the greenaw Jaw being pretty pathetic
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: when it comes to like being effectiveness in battle, Like
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: they should be on the board of fighting.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, Teslain as a Red does as well,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: which we you know, will learn subsequently from Pavar later, Like, yeah,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: that makes sense. The Reds actually do train for fighting
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: in a way that you'd think the Greens would have
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: been doing. But apparently only the Reds.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Do that, the Reds. But see, I feel like the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Greens train like fighting trolics, whereas the Reds trained for
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: fighting other channelers.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I feel like fighting other channelers would be
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: part of what a Green should do too.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because they're supposed to be on the edge
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: for that, you know, to fight the dread lords. That's
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: what they're exactly exactly.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: The Greens and the Reds should have a pretty intense
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: training program between the two of them where they like
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: work out techniques in the AJA and then share them
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: across the Aujas because they specifically have that intersection. Ugh,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: if I was in charge.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: See this is where how much of that is the
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: black Auja and how much of it is just fucking
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: bureaucracy creating ineffective institutions.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that I there's no way that the Black Aja
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: can take more than half the cred right, There's no way,
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: no way.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of like there's some some of
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: that stuff between the and the Moni and the Isidi.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: And Teslin doesn't think it's worth training the soul Doom,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: whereas Jolene is trying to do it right.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Well specifically for the battle, right, Like, Teslin doesn't think
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: that bringing the Soul Doom to the battle and then
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: expecting them not to participate is reasonable. She's like, oh wow, Joline,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: you're gonna bring your pet insane people to this battle
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: and expect them to behave That's gonna go great. Like
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: that's kind of her attitude, because Jolene says, you know,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: as de facto novices, you are not allowed to participate
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: in the battle, even though you are trained users of
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: war magic. You don't get to participate because my weird
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: hierarchical isid ie idea of how this should go. And
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Tesla's like, you really think they're going to respect that.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: You really think that that's gonna work, And it does
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: because for some fucking reason, like every other woman in
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: the world who can channel the suldom have decided that
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: all they want in the world is to be a
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: good little iside, And so they obey Jolene and just
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: stand there and watch the bat I don't know why
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: they're there.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at least link with them, use their fucking strength, right.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Exactly right. I don't understand why you'd have them there
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: but not use them. It's very weird. They also have
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: a moment where they Matt reflects on how only Jolene
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: was surprised that the captured eyes Sida I left willingly
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: with Tuon. They have that other interaction where like the
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: other two having been collared recently, like very much understand
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: why she's still brainwashed and why she's into it, only
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Jolene is like, how could she? Well, if I was
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: in her position, I would just say no, you know, again,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: showing the disconnection between Jolene and like objective reality and
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: other people's experience and believing she might possibly not be
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: right about everything.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Joline was never collared, she was the only
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: one who got away without being collared, even though she
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: yep and all due to that. Yeah, oh yeah, and
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: this is I love that she's like, you owe us,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: and it's like, man, he rescued you from the sean Chan,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, you owe him?
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: No.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: At the end when she's like, well, since I fought
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: your battle for you, now you have to become my warter,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: it's like, bitch, pu yeah right, absolutely not like you
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: owe Matt so much. You owe him more than you
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: could ever fucking repay. This one little battle does not
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: reverse that dynamic.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: And so this is there are ten thousand people coming
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: at Matt, right, like this one battle he kills ten thousand.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of people to kill in what like
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: thirty minutes?
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: What it doesn't seem like it takes even that long.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: It's how long to take charge? How long does it
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: take courses to charge across two miles?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Less than thirty minutes?
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Less than thirty minutes? Yeah, so yeah, so this is yeah,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: you got what maybe how many how many people did
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: he see He's got like five thousand people in the
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: square and maybe another four thousand people with almanas? Is
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: that what that round about?
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the numbers were, but I want
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: to say, yeah, it was roughly fifty to fifty.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: So this looks like about an equal number of battles.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: It looks like about ten thousand versus ten thousand. Really,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm thinking, right, because it's there's ten thousand
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: people charging, and he describes later with when.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Uh right, he loses very few people and it is like, yeah,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: clearly I win, even though it should have been like
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: a knockout head to head fight.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: So yeah, he's seemed very calm for a man with
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: ten thousand lances coming towards me. Rolls out the banner.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: They attack. They don't, you know, check, They're just like, oh,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: it looks like half our number that we came upon.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Surprised we'll be able to do a charge. They're just
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: stuck where they are. Clearly this is an easy battle
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: for us. So the bad guys are the bad They
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: got people who want too long and just charge in
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: without a second thought. They don't look in the forest,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: they don't check to see what other powers are going on.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: None of them looked behind to see Talmanus leading three
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: banners of horse out of the forest below the lake.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a bad call. That's a bad strategy.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: And also matt unfurls the banner to let them know
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: who's killing them. Yeah, the banner of the Red hand
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: dve Avis dovis again. Fuck you, motherfucker, It's.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Time to the dice. I love it. Yeah, and that,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and then we get the battle, which is essentially I mean,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: you've got four ranks front three, three second rank loose
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: third front rank.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, three ranks, three ranks of crossbows spaced
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: with slingmen throwing grenades, right.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: And each cross each rank has about one thousand cross
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: so each time they fire, they're firing about a thousand
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: crossbow bolts.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: And they're firing a full cycle in like an eight
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: no twelve second loop. I think something like four seconds
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: per shot. They give us a thing at one point
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: where they're counting it out.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Counting, and if I remember, it's every four beats you
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: get a shot, so it's every twelve you get the
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: full every twelve beats you reload and shoot. Because you
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: have three ranks, you're getting three times as many shots
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: you end up with. Yet.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's three thousand bolts in twelve seconds. How
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: are you winning that that that is a rain of death.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Right, not to mention you have another four thousand people
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: behind you with horsebow bolts firing into your rear.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Tom Honesty's people are coming up with yet
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: less speed and accuracy on the firing rate, but like
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: they're much closer, and they're firing at your back.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: And there's another fourth and there's four thousand of them right.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: So like yeah, so now we're talking sixteen thousand sometimes
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: within like a ten second period. Yeah, that's that's fine.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: And then you add in grenades, yeah, and then you
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: add in magic fireballs yep. And for some reason, none
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: of that is enough to make a single one of
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: the men turn. Every last one of them keeps coming
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: until they're all dead, Like it's wild.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Tom Honics are coming range now, announcing himself with volley
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: from four thousand bows at three hundred paces. That cleared saddles,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: So four thousand shots at once, closing the distance, they
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: fired again again, So that's four that's twelve thousand shots.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: There's only ten thousand men.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't need every one of those
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: bolts to find its target in order to have that
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: be a devastatingly effective strategy.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: The enemy ranks seem to ripple with shocks. Someone world
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: about in charge tim monas so some men stopping whirling
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: about going rear, which means they're encountering their own troops. Right.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Others begin returning a hail of arrows with their own,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: which means they're stopping most so most continue on. But like,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: you have this group that peel off the back, right,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: so you have this this sort of splintering of the forces.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Not to mention, they're killing a bunch of them right
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: before they get attacked. They fall back into a hollow
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: box with pikes. Right.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as it starts to get close to hand to
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: hand time, they switch from line formation to box formation,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: and like, yeah, this is where we've got the like
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: are you in danger yet? Are you in danger yet?
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Mack feels in dangers Like, m I don't feel in danger.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Let me check my nails.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Like you are literally in a box, surrounded on all
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: sides by charging lances firing arrows at you, with no escape.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: How do you not feel in danger yet?
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah? She waits until that box is well and truly
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: under siege before she feels in danger, which is just no.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: As soon as they're charging at me from across the
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: thing with lances lowered and firing arrows at me, I'm
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: in danger.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: M Yeah, yeah, I get the whole like wait for it,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: wait for it, Like I get that. But like Matt says,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: you could join in any time, like strategically, like that's
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: the one thing that does. That's the one thing that does.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: This whole battle is be like magic, ladies, what are
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: you waiting for?
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Wow? Uh huh. And then we get the whole paragraph
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: about how there's like three really close misses. To Matt,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: He's like, maybe I should wear an armor. It's like
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: you think, like yeah.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like remember that prophecy about half the light of
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: the world. You're not sure how that's going to get fulfilled?
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: It could be right now, ding dong, Yes.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: An arrow tugged Matt's sleeve, another pierced his right sleeve,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: only the fletchings keeping it going through cleanly, and a
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: third ripped open the right shoulder of his coat. So
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: two sleeves and a shoulder right like he's being fucking
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: boxed in by arrows, right, Like the idea that one
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: of those wasn't slightly left of the right, and would
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: go through a shoulder or a chest or an eye
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: like just crazy to me.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Crazy, this is the power of plot armor.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: And then the ice at eye began hurling, began hurling
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: fireballs as fast as they could swing their arms. That
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: reliance of ice and eye on moving their arms to
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: throw fireballs that we see.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I mean it's good for your shoulder, you know, rotator
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: cuffs for that range of motion, but yeah, you didn't
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: have to throw your arms.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: No, And also fireballs, I mean I love it from
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: a D and D perspective, but honestly, fireballs not the
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: most effective use of power.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: No efficient, I'd be riffing off of what a Ludra's
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: doing and being like how do I make little like
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: points of earth that maybe are also heated up? Like
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: what have you made little va little lava bombs? And
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: just shut those through the crowd? Right, Yeah, the the
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: balls of fire are very Yeah, it's very early D
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: and D like it's cute, but like, come on, be innovative.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: And we know why I said I use it because
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: they don't do any fucking training. It's like getting the
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: wand out of somebody's hand in Harry Potter, right, it's like, Okay,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I've got one spell and I'm going to use the
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: fuck out of it, and it's all I ever need
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: for combat.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just it's not good strategy. No, it's not
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: good strategy.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, it's it's, you know, better strategy
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: than running face first into a fist full of fireballs.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, a fireball is effective if.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Crude, right, right, it's just yeah, it's crude.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's such cooler, flashier shit you could be doing.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Another wall began to rise, made of dead and dying
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: men and horses, a wall that some tried to ride over. Whoa,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: I mean again, there's an army behind you, an army
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: in front of you, right, what do you you know,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: maintain the charge, wipe out those in front of you,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: and then maybe you can turn around and wipe out
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: the people behind you.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: But still yeah, no, it's this is always one of
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: the more like viscerally horrifying little sections is the wall
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: of dead with people crawling over it and trying to
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: get in. Like it's less horrifying when it's trollics. We
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: get descriptions of this of this with trolks in the
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Battle of the two rivers. It's more like, Okay, they're
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: just beast shoal hordes whatever, whatever. But men and horses
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: is just like, oh.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: And these aren't even Shonchan. These are all tarans. These
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: are locals, These are people.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Who Yeah, these are local lebbes.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: These are local people. There's no actual shon.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Chan mercenary companies, you know. I mean some of them
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: might be professional soldiers, but still none of them are
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: about one of them is Shonchan literally one one is Seanchan,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: and you know that, like some of the people are like,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: you know, suffocating to death in the pile rather than
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: dying and just being part of the pile. And it's
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: just like it's real visceral, and like I'm absolutely sure
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: that this is a thing that has happened in like
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: every war ever with enough people to like make that possible.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Like I'm sure this is a thing that's happened in
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the real world. But it's just it's one of the
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: most visceral things in this book.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: So it's just like, Oh, the real difference between I
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: feel like Paren and Matt is I to feel like
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Paren would try and find some way to recruit these
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: people and break them away from the Shawn.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Chan Paren would Paren fucking would.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: He'd be like, uh, I need you to not hunt
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: you on, so you're gonna join me instead? Or I
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: could wipe you out your choice.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Paren would definitely try to convince them to
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: just join up instead.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: But with like a ridiculous overwhelming show it force, right
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: with the channeling and all that kind of stuff.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: He'd be like, like what he does to the white Cloks, Like, yeah.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Basically that's sort of what I'm thinking, is that, because
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: like that's whole that's Parent's whole thing. Matt cruse people
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: because people want to join the winning side. People join
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Paren because it's better than being his enemy.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and because Paren will follow through on his
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: threat too and his promises, Yeah yeah exactly. Parents follow
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: through is not to be questioned, like he will annihilate
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: you if that is the threat, Like there is no
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: like I will try to annihilate you like he will
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: annihilate you.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: So in this sort of preview of the last battle, right,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: there's walls of dead and Matt has a few people
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: with like arrows in their arms. Basically a couple died
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: with arrows to the throat. But I don't think he
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: lost that many.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: No, he lost a handful. It's not bad.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: And this is when we get we owe said Debt. Matt,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I said, I do not become involved in private wars,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: which is rule I shall have to think on how
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: you can pay.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, she's really trying to get him to be
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: a warder.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: And he's like, is that what you think it is?
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, because because he says Matt had a pretty
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: good idea of what she would come up with. She
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: was mad herself if she thought he would agree.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that went right over my head.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: She's tried to get him to be a warder before,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: like we've seen it more explicitly, and it's like, this
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: is definitely her pushing that argument again, even though no, no,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: no stop the man said no no means no Jolene.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Hmmm, Joline two on saying please don't take my man.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, except that it's more like, don't take my man
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: because I will collar you. So then we get a lovely,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: lovely warlike O Gear moment where Artha says I want
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: to find the trader and just walks over the wall
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: of dead people like it means nothing at all?
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Do I assume find the already dead trader.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Yes right' that's what he means. He's like, I want
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: to see if I can pick through this. You know, however,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: many pieces of these ten thousand men are littered across
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: this field, and see if I can find the one
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: man I recognize.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: And he does. He comes back with his head, and
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: that's Zared Elbar right, he's Surof's right hand man. Well,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: in the epilogue, his head gets delivered to Suroth.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: We first meet him in the Great Hunt. Yeah, oh wow,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: the guy. Yeah, he's there for the capture of the
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: girls when they come through the the way gate. He's
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: the head hancho fuckhead of oh I.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Men slash his hand, allowing him to escape. Yeah, so
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: she's that's the one where Yeah, good job man.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: And he wants to kill her like it's a whole
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: it's he's he's there from the get go. He's introduced
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: with Surath. Him and Surroth are literally a couple in
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: terms of the arc that they've followed through the books.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: He brings more gaze to the High Lady Suath when
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: he when they take Amador. So he's there at the
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: taking down of the White Cloak's palace. But that's really
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: those are the only two mentions of him before this moment.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: So like he's introduced early, but he is not a
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: highly used character.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: No, but Surroth references him in such a way that
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: like he's been there for her for years, right, like
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: he is part of the backdrop in which Surroth exists
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: and she trust him to do anything, and so yeah,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: when we get to the epilogue and she's like, oh,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: he wouldn't fail me in her head, and then immediately
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: is like, oh, he definitely was working for someone else,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: like throws him under the bus instantly, like it's you
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: know that it's garbage because like you've seen him with
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: her since book two.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: You know, and he's definitely a dark friend, right like
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yeah for sure, for sure.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he doesn't have so little backstory to be
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: a good guy, no.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Because Sarroth thinks about like, oh, I need him to
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: help me find a dark friend in the Suldom, so
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: like obviously, if he's looking for a dark friend for her,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: he's also dark friend.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, No, and he's cruel, so.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: You know, uh, I love Mussange talking to Joline, He's
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: like don't ask him for a favor. It was clearly
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: the crossbow balls you like you did, you did something,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, but like those fireballs at the end,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: not what won the battle, not what won the day.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, which, like he's completely right. Like he might
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: be being you know, mean and derogatory because Maras Demani
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah, but like he's completely correct from a
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: military standpoint, like you put the icing on the cake
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and helped lower the casualties on our side. You didn't
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: change the battle.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: But the fifty people throwing grenades did probably just as more,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: if not more dam just as much, if not more
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: damage than the Isidia throwing fireballs.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all thing I said I did was bring the
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: battle to a faster end with lower casualties on matt side,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: which is good, I'm which is good. Yeah, no, great,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: No one's complaining about that, But like, don't be trying
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: to take all the credit, like, get out of here.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: This is where Massane realizes that Matt never had more
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: than that and sort of has that moment of like,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: oh my god, that's all you did, all that, with
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: all that, with only this Oh wow.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Right, right, and Matt is still being cagy with his
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: information and his resources. And it's like, what other tricks
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: does this guy have up his sleeve? You know, Like
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: that's pretty much the air Matt is projecting. It's like
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: when I say I have enough, don't think that you
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: one will understand the answer, like you know.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: And I guess that gives us too the readout, which is.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: A very fun, very fun Matt moment of a readout.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: By the time an opening could be clear so that
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Matt and the others could ride through, Rotha and the
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: gardeners had returned. Oh a foul la, Rotha said, holding
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: up a severed head by its hair. Mussange's eyebrows climbed
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: at the sight of that dark no's face. She will
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: be very interested to see this, he said, softly, softly
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: as the sound of a sword being drawn is soft.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: We must carry it to her. You know him, Matt asked,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: We know him? Highness Musanja's face suddenly seemed carved from stone,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: said he would say no more on the subject. Look,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: would you stop calling me that my name is Matt?
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: After today? I'd say you have a right to use it.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Matt surprised himself by sticking out his hand. The stone
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: mass crumpled in astonishment. I could not do that high mess,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: he said in scandalized tones. When she married you, you
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: became the Prince of Ravens. To speak your name would
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: lower my eyes forever. Matt took off his hat and
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: scrubbed fingers through his hair. He told everyone who would
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: listen that he did not like nobles, did not want
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: to be one, and he had meant it, he still
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: meant it, and now he bloody was one. He did
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: the only thing he could. He laughed until his sides ached.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I just I just love it so much.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: The last bit of Matt that Robert Jordan writes is
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: him being stuck as a noble. I don't want to
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: be a bloody noble. Then you are one, Matt.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Matt, I'm not a bloody noble. Coffin is now married
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: to the Empress, right.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Like, probably one of the most powerful people in Randland
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: at this point, right behind behind rand right. Yeah, and
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: maybe the White Tower maybe.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Once it's reunified.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, maybe the Black Tower. Like to say, handful
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: of people who were more powerful would consider more powerful
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: than Toulon.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: The Queen of vander comparable. Once she gets her shit together.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I almost say that that's more just she's
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: on Rand's side. She's not really a part of Rand.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Apart from Rand. She's a part of Rand. Oh yeah,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: she's she's commanding his forces, but she's commanding Rand's forces
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: in the life.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: I'm even just thinking the Andoran army is nothing to sneeze.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Oh well, honestly.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: It wasn't anything, and they'll get back to it.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, until they get the cannons, they're really not.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: They're just soldiers. They don't have any channelers. They don't
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: have like she's got maybe the Kin you could call pers,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: but they're not not.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: In a military sense.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and once the Black Tower stops being run
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: by a Forsaken and like is just a proper Black Tower,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: then she'll have the Black Tower being like no, I
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: mean like obviously and ors interests are like the most important,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: right right.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Right, And she's yeah, she's definitely like going into this
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: moment where she's going to have the Black Tower, the Kin,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: some sea folk on her side, right, Like she's got
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: all of these groups of channelers to help her out.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I see what you mean. Like at
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: this point, yeah, the White Tower is fractured and doesn't
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: have a good army. I mean it has two armies
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: that will come together. But yeah, if you just sort
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: of everyone behind Rand, they're like comparable to Sean Shan.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: And now Matt is kind of in charge of Sean Shan.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Paren is not even close to in their
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: league with his little army. I mean, he's got a
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: big army, but it's there's no nation to it. They're
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: all on the move, like Parent's just running around with
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: a bunch of refugees. He's not anywhere on the level
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: that Rand and Matt are. Like Matt is, yeah, he's
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: now half owner of a continent, and so is Rand.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Well RAN's a full owner of most of a continent.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, but yeah, I think that's that's the
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: end of that. I think we are. Well, you know,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: we've only been going for an hour.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: We've only been going for an hour.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Well, we only do an hour on a chapter. We
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: usually try and do two. Usually do we want to
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: try and do the epiloguey? Today?
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: I got my notes ready, I'm I'm down, all right.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: All right, I need a break. I'm gonna make a
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: cup of tea, Okay, but I'm feeling good. I'm enjoying this.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: That was a fun battle scene, and I think that
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: there's like lots going on in the next and like,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I really do feel like the next bit with Suro
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: completes this scene.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does. It really does.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe we get through the suroth POV. We may what
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: if we maybe put off the final POV till next week? Yeah, okay,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: all right, I'll be back, Okay, all right. Epilogue. Remember
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: the old saying and the symbol is the Mickey mouse
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: ears or the snake and the wheel.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's the epilogue.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: It's the epilogue, right, I mean, it's the wheel has turned.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: That's what that always says. Usually it's very prominent for
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: the wheel. And remember the old saying is, of course,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: you know, let the Lord of Chaos rule, which is
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: not an old saying.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: But anyway, well, I mean it's been a couple of years,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: is the last book with that published? So yeah, yeah,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: so that.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Just tells you how little time has passed between the
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: end of Lord of Chaos and this book in world
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: It's only been a couple of months.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, manya. It's also a good symbol for this chapter
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: because we have some good conclusions. Right, Surat's bid for
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Tuwan's position has been going for a long time, and
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: this is the final end of that. We will never
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: hear from Surath again. She's done. This is as good
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: as killing her in terms of plot development.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Well, once you're not Govail, that's it, you're done.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And she's like, and this is since a great hunt, right.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: She was a og bad guy that we're getting rid
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: of here.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. This is one of our first mini
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: bosses that we've ever introduced into the plot, and this
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: is this is her end. So it's a good time
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: to have the snake in the wheel. Yeah, I'll read this.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: In the red walled room, it's ceiling painted fancifully with
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: birds and fish cavorting among clouds and waves, bustled with
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: brown clads scurrying along the aisles between the long tables
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: that covered the floor. None seemed to be trying to listen.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Most seemed stunned with cause, but Zarroth disliked their presence.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: They had to overhear some of what was being said,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: and it was potentially dire news. Galgan had insisted, though,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: they needed to work to keep their minds off the
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: disastrous news from home, and they were all trusted men
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: and women, he insisted. At least the white haired old
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: man was not dressed as a soldier this morning. His
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: voluminous blue trousers and short, high collared red coat with
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: rows of gold buttons and bossed with his sigil, were
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: the height of Shondar fashion, which meant the height of
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: fashion for the Empire. When he wore armor, or even
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: just his red uniform, he sometimes looked at her as
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: if she were a soldier under his command. Well. Once
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Elbar brought word that Tuon was dead, she could have
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Gagon killed. His cheeks were smeared with ashes, as were hers.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: The ship Semarag had promised, had brought word of the
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Empress's death, and the empire was wrecked by rebellion in
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: every quarter. There was no empress, no daughter of the
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Nine Moons. To commoners, the world trembled on the brink
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: of destruction. To some of the blood too. With Galgan
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: and a few more dead, there would be none to
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: object to Sarath. Sabel Meldarath, proclaiming herself Empress, she tried
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: not to think of the new name she would take
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: thinking on a new name beforehand was bad luck. Well,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: clearly she failed. Clearly she did actually think of her
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: new name, because the only reason that all those went
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: this went this fell apart.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Oh oh, it's so satisfying, and too On doesn't pussy
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: foot around and just as like, Nope, you're fucked, get
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: you're done, get out.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: It's it's good, it's good. Siroth sucks. She's plotting to
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: kill Gagon for her own gain. She is a dark friend.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: We hate her. Yeah, this is this is her just
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: five minutes before the fall, and this has to.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Be some time after Matt lets her go. That is
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: the one thing I'm not entirely sure. Because they have
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: to ride from wherever Matt gives Tuan to fear Creed.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: They have to get back to Abu Dar right.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, they don't have traveling. They just ride on horses.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: They're a small party and they're moving quickly. But it
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: took many weeks for the circus to travel that distance.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: It took a couple few weeks for the SWAT team
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: to follow the trail and figure out where they had gone.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: It can't have taken less than two weeks to get back,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Right, but we have no clue on timeline here.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: No, but one assumes as quickly as horses could possibly
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: take a small party.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Do we have a location where they because how far
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: are they from Abu Dar during this battle, because they're at.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: The Maldiveners, right, that's yea, the Mulvain Pass. Mulvain Pass,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: what's it called?
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, Maldive Narrows in Altara is the narrowest point of
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: the Mulvain Gap, a pass through the mountains.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, there we go, all right, excellent. That even kind
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: of allows for the double ming because one's a subset
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: of the other.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Right, So they're just traveling north basically the length of
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Altara right until they get to the Maldive Narrows.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Because they're trying to get to Mirran d Yeah, because
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: that's outside of shan Chan control.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, we can use those two terms in
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: interchangeably because one's just a spot in the other.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool coo, cool very neat. So yeah, point is
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: the distance from the edge of the country to the
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: capitol of the country, Tara, however many one hundred miles,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: that is, it's in the hundreds of miles, like one
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: or two hundred miles sort of range.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let me one hundred mile. Yeah, so that's one
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: hundred miles, which is not that much. And if we're
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: going Altara.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Matt says that the circus can go like ten miles
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: a day or something. Yeah, and they're on the road
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: for weeks, so that's like that.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: That's like one, two, three four, it's like five six
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: hundred miles according to the legend on the map.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could believe that. I could believe that our
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: miles are Nerd miles.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: I think they're the same thing in Wheel of Time.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: I think they have the same miles we do. Or
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I don't. Oh no, we went through that with the
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: whole that's like a some multiple of ten.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's different. The lengths and weights are slightly different,
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: as is their concept of a week. It's very confusing,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: but it's it's a why.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: And I think I think Robert Jordan retrocon that just
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: to make some things work. But yes, yeah, I mean imagine,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: I mean that's it's like traveling all the way across Oregon.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, five hundred miles is a long damn way. It's
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: a long way, especially if all you have is a
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: horse on horse.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have to assume, you know, even at gosh,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: they say twenty miles a day is fast on a horse.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, that's a minute. That's several days, many
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: many days, weeks? How many weeks?
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Uh, gosh, I'm so let's say six hundred divided by
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: twenty is thirty thirty days.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're talking, Yeah, three weeks of hard riding,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: which I don't think you could do. Actually, I think
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: you'd have to take rest days for the sake of
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: the horses and the people, Like you literally couldn't do
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: that every day. So we're talking more like an actual month, yeah,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: at least probably, Yeah, like like there, it's no way
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: there's less than a month.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's weird. It's interesting to go from like
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: the previous chapter where she's leaving Matt to this chapter
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: where she's arriving at Abu Dhar and it feels like
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: no time has past. But this is the first time
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: I've been like, Jordan, I feel like you're not respecting
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: the distance.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because like, how long do we have between that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: battle that we just covered and the last battle? Is
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: there even a month of time left? Those two?
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Two? One? Has to do before the last battle can
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: get started if she's taken a month to ride home
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: and like every the rest of the plot is going
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: on while she's just riding, Like really, yeah, I wonder
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: if Jordan maybe dropped a zero in his mental calculation
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: along there.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's kind of crazy. It really, it does
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: feel like she teleported back and we don't have anybody
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: with nope gateways, right, there's none of none of the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Jolley none of them have gateways. Nothing of them, Nope,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: none of.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Them know how to make gateways. So that's a weird hole.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: That's just weird hole, unless like literally the same day
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: that she gets rid of Soroth is also the day
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: that she meets with Rand, Like maybe, but like I
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: don't think it is. She's not described as being recently
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: an the city and still has ashes on her cheeks,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Like that's not how she's described at that meeting with Rand.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: And one thing you really have to realize is the
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: last three books do not stick to a timeline the
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: way the first eleven did. There's some weird time you
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: wimy stuff. There's a lot of people just appearing in
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: places where they need to appear without any explanation, and
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: there's just less events aren't anchored in time, right, like
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I think my one of my favorite realizations is that
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Robert Jordan matches the phases of the moon. Whenever a
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: character looks up and sees the moon, it's in the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: correct phase for the day that event is occurring on,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: which is insane. It means he knows every date that
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: was happening. Every He mapped out every single week and
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: every single day pretty accurately, right except for I think
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: during Winter's Heart, right, I think so Lan Crossroads. I
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: think someone said that that looks like that he mixed
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: up the timelines a little bit there. But that makes
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: sense because but then last three books, Sanderson didn't try,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: like didn't even try to keep timelines consistent, but.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: He wrote a time breaking mechanism into it so that
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: way he didn't have to. He literally just wrote himself
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: a complete out from the entire problem was like, no
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: time is broken during this period.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: Based on how close you are to the dark one.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that allowed him to just completely take that
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: off of his worry.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Line right right, and so the things and not to
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: mention the entire first book is written from an Iguayne
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Ran POV and then the second book is like basically
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: a parent POV and those are happening at the same.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Time, right right, Yeah.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a lot of overlap in his books
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do suspect that Jordan would have had
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: to also break time at the end. Sure, well, I
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: think that he couldn't have maintained his moon cycles through.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell Jordan was going to
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: do in the last like, I mean, yeah.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: I feel like that time breaking he would have. I
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: think he would have yeah, like no, no, no, let's not
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: worry about timelines. Let's it's just warp reality itself. That
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: makes sense. It's quantum, right, we got like an event horizon.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: It makes sense that like everything's spaghettifying. It's fine.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: At the same time, I don't know what Jordan would
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: have done, because he amazed me over and over and
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: over again.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: You know, he wrote himself into some goddamn corners and
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: the cracks were showing. I don't think he was going
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: to manage to like hold it all together.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: There is you know, and I always have to remember this,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: but there's a part of me that when I found
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: out that another author was finishing the series. I was
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: relieved because I wasn't sure Jordan was going to be
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: able to do it, because he was just going to
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: keep writing more.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have had any problem with that, I know.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if I could have
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: if the series continued to drag on without coming to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: a close. I know a Knife of Dreams. Knife of
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: Dreams is the redemption book that shows me that he
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't going to be stuck, right, But for a while
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I was worried.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, Knife of Dreams. Just take that whurry away.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: It does, it really does. The fact that this is
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: the chapter where goes away right, we wrapped up, right, it's.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: The epilogue, and it's like, yes, is taken out in
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: an epilogue, like you book, cu bitch, you got to
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: take it out in an epilogue, I know.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: But that's a pretty significant epilogue, right it is.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great, it's great. But it's also like a
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: he just he can pack so much even into an epilogue,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: you know, even taking out one of our first mini
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: bosses epilogue. That's how good he is.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: So back to the chapter itself, yeah, they get a
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: report that again, this is just the numbers of troops, right,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand troops laying waiting for the shawn chant
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: So I wasn't exactly sure what this report was something
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: about Yeah, so has a group of troops commanded by
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: oh what is this guy's name. It's like a team
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Ron Turan, not Turak Turan, right, and not Tulon, not
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Tuon right, oh god damn it Jordan. And they're basically
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: surrounded by Indiralda. Right, he's got one hundred thousand troops
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: on one side and two hundred thousand troops on the other,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: which again, three hundred thousand people. Like, that's such a
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: big fucking army. And it's not even one of the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: main armies. It's the side army.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Okay anyway, yeah, yeah, the shan Chan are like it's
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: like Russia. It's just more people in their army than
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: you could possibly fathom.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: But even after all that has a giant army, like
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: that's his army of three hundred thousand people, right, Like
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: that's true, that's insane.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, yeah, Turan, it has been what this is,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: This is the thing where Tiralda lit a bunch of
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: fires and has been being chased out of Terra bon
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: shedding Tarra baners. As he goes, the shan Chan army
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: is coming after him. This is that we're getting a
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: snapshot picture of that where the Shan Shan army is
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: running headlong into a battle situation where the eyes in
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: the sky see it as being bad because Icherold is
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: good at his job, but the guy on the ground
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: is committed and can't do anything about it.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: So I'm what I'm trying to figure out is where
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: did the two hundred thousand come from? After touran across
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: the border? I know the on hundred thousand, those are
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: the ones Oterolda has right, that's his army. And then
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: this force of two hundred thousand people comes out of
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: fucking nowhere.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's yeah, because then they talk about Schison. Has
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: A still doesn't found who created that little mess in
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: the north. That's Matt. The little mess in the north
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: is Matt, right.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: Right then, I don't know if this group of troops
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: is ever addressed again, let me look up ter Alda.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like again, this is the stuff I don't normally
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: try to make sense of. And now, but I'm looking
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: at it just like, yeah, we're just like throwing around
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: one hundred thousand, two hundred thousand soldiers without really being
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: clear about who they are, where they're coming from, who
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: they're trying to attack, what's happening.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And like in the gay Ing Storm, ader Alda
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: crushes the chan Chan army, he kills the executes General Turan, right,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: and then he's trapped and ran comes and rescues him. Right,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: But there's that's no explanation of the two hundred thousand
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: that are behind that are behind that troop, right, they
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: must have crushed him. So I mean, I guess we
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: can look at what they decide they're doing with it.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: But yeah, in the Great in the Gathering Storm, he
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: is outnumbered, right, he I trolled, And it's like, yeah,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: how do we square him being out numbered with the
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: three hundred thousand troops that he supposedly has and crushed
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: the chan Chan with?
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because also it says has turn gotten an accurate
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: count of how many men came out of these mountains
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: to join Atiralda when he crossed into Aradamon, which, like
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: I thought he was done picking people up. I thought
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: he was entirely in a losing soldiers part of his Like,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize that he gained more people when he
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: got to Era Dominic, except apparently he does according to this.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Oh unless no, no, I bet this is the his
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: faint right, this is I Toeralda's big tricky thing, right
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: is he makes it look like he has a huge army.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: That's what he did, right, that's he was doing that
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: in the prolog of this book.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: Oh that has happened, right right, we did that already,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: So he can't be doing that again. M okay, never mind.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: Unless this is just weird, tiny whimy stuff and like
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: this is like the prologue is happening at the same time.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: Which general did I Giralda kill.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: In the next book he will kill Okay, Turan, not Turak,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: not Tuon Turan.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Secret love job, secret love John.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: So that's I. I I think these troops were forgotten about,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: completely forgotten about.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: If anyone has an ext one, please email us watspoilers
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: at gmail dot com.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Where did they come from? Where did they go? Kind
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: of yeah, So that's I. It's just like these two
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand troops that appear out of nowhere, and disappear again.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know where they come from. I don't know
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: where they go. It doesn't make any sense to me where, Like,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: why are these written in here? It feels like Jordan
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: had a reason for it, and then Sanderson didn't pick
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: it up, pick up on it.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: I hope we can figure it out. Yeah, I hope
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: that somewhere along the line we figure it out or
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: someone closes in. But yeah, for now, I was shrugging emoji.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, they says, if he survives this debacle, Turan,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: I'll have his head. He does not, after all the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: kills him. Yeah, yeah, gall Gun will sign the orders
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: raising Tyler Kirirgun in general. Okay, another thread that I
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: think was highly dropped. I think Tyler Kirregun was going
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: to be you know, I think Paren was supposed to
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: be more involved in the negotiations of the army with
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: the Sean Chan. Tylee was going to be raised up.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: She was going to be the leader of the shawn
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Chan army. She was going to work with Paren. That's
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: how the art. I think the army should have been involved,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: at least part of them should have been involved that way.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: And TILEI is just forgotten about as a character.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: Yep, we get like a minor encounter. She does get
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: a tiny bit of page time, but in like the
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: intro of ther next book in the prologue. Yeah no,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: she was clearly being set up to be a very
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: important part of how Paren factored into dealing with the
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: Shawn Chin issue. And yeah, the Last Battle.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: But again because we know that Jordan left no notes
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: for Paren on the Last Battle and so Sanderson wrote
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: whatever he wanted and it didn't include any of the
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: obvious setup that Tylee was part of and Paren's involvement
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: with the Shawan Chan.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really wanted to see more of Tylie. She's
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: like a guianin you know, she's just a basic rank
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: and file soldier who happens to be in proximity to
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: our main cast and is getting to experience that. I
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: wanted more of that.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: And she basically heads back to Vudhar, gets attacked by Trulocks,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: and reports into with Tuon and then we never see
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: her again.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep it's a bummer.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah No, I like I would have loved to have
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: seen basically like Rand fighting the Last Battle and incomes
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: Matt and Paren with the sean Chan army behind them
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: to save the day instead of the way it worked.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: And then they can just be like, you know what
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: we're done with as of right now, Yeah, slavery, slavery
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: because we are Matt in Paren and we do not
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: like that bullshit, So we're done. We're not doing that anymore.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: It would have been great, would have been fantastic, and.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: That would have helped the you know, the what was
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: the prophecy the North and the East must be as one.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: In the South and the West must be as one.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: The two shall be as one, right, Like, yeah, Paren
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: really was set up to take over the south, right,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Matt was really set up to take over the west.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and as long as you don't steal parent's wife,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: slavery is off the table, right, steal parent's wife. We
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: can ago she had on the slavery thing. Apparently apparent apparently,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna pretend I didn't say that.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: You know, you're a parent twin, all.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: Right, So Suroth is getting all jealous of goggone. He's
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: gonna be emperor, and then the door opens dramatic, the.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Two on walks in.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, deathwa wash guards and they the thing.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: They throw Elbar's head across the table. Sarath sees it
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: and goes, oh, what he was not acting under my order?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: Is bad? Bad man? Bad man?
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: That's what she does. She's like, I I know who
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: he was really working for for sure, for sure definitely
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: isn't my guy across the table? Who's my enemy right now?
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: And it's like, wow, you had that story really well prepared.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: Siroth like she just snaps off a story. No shock, no, like,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: oh my god, what happened? Just like, oh, no, I
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: know he was working for exactly why he was doing
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: what he was doing.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: And it's like, could you be more obvious? Yeah, he's
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: more obvious. I don't think we're getting the message loud
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: and clear yet.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: Mmmmmm and so and Tuan doesn't mess around with that.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No. I love the little wordplay though, where she's like, oh,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: I'm so sorry if he offended you in any way, like,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: clearly you just killed him because he offended you, and
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: she's like offended me, yes.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: I guess trying to kill me is offensive.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you could say he offended me, but he tried
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: to kill me and my husband. I'm not going to
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: mention that. But also my husband, because you know, I mean,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: for all of her complicated weirdness with Matt, you know
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: she feels defensive of her husband, right if this man
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: tried to kill her husband, like she will go for
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: your jugular and not let go.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: This is the because you get those moments from tu
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: On She's like, maybe I don't have to be afraid
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: of my husband. Maybe I don't have to try and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: kill him. Maybe I can depend on him, these like
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: moments of clarity where she's like, oh my god, I
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: like Mat and I like the idea of being able
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: to lean on, trust, depend love my husband.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Right right exactly. So, like she's got a defensive streak
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: coming out here, Like she's not gonna mention anything about
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: her Prince of Ravens because like cards close to the
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: chest and all that. But like you know that she's
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: got a bit of a defensive like I will cut
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: a bitch for hurting much it's threatening my husband, even
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: if she didn't know he's my husband, doesn't matter. I'm
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: defensive because I'm too on.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: And so then do you want to read out this
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: little section, those last maybe two paragraphs.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's uh, it's good, it's good. It's good stuff.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: This is this is some come upance. Tuon looked over
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: Surath's head. She met Gagan's eyes, and Abaldar's and Yamadas
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: and those of everyone in the Blood, but not Siroth's.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: It is well known that Zared Albar was Surroth's man completely.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: He did nothing that she did not order. Therefore, Suratsabel
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Mildarath is no more. This dacka veil will serve the
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: death Watch guard as they wish, until her hair has
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: grown enough for her to be decent when she is
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: sent to the block for sale. Soroth never thought of
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: the knife she had intended to use to open her veins,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: a knife beyond reach in her apartments. She could not
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: think at all. She started screaming a wordless howl before
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: they even began cutting her clothing off.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: So that would be the find out part of your life.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, you have concluded the fucking around
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: portion of your life.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: And you will now be finding out some really nice Yeah,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: dark friends just getting fucked now. It's always sad going
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: to get fucked for just being bad people rather from
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: being dark friends. For me, it's I always like want
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: them to be like you're a dark friend and call
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: them out. But it's like, no, you just suck in
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: your trader.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because if she was a dark friend, then we
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: would not be having yet another woman go into slavery
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: rather than simply being killed, right right. I feel like
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: if there was a good you're a dark friend, then
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: it would be like and now we shall slit her
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: throat and drain her blood onto the floor, like in
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: front of everyone.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: You know, that is something i've Jordan also likes hates
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: killing females, right like all of his women characters. Oh
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: not all, but most of his women characters are imprisoned
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: or enslaved rather than killed. Like even Messana isn't killed.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Her brain is broken, nope.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: But the heart that beats blood to the ovaries is
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: still functioning.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: Right, same thing with like yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I would rather have seen Zurath get killed
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: like a common criminal in front of the entire blood
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: just out of nowhere because she's a dark friend, then
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: like we're good. I do some weird, implied, nasty shit
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: off screen, and then a lifetime of brainwashing and slavery, like.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Think about our evil women. Galina mm hmm, Elida mm hmmm,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: Soroth Mogedian. Mm hmm, Massana right. People who are enslaved
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: women are often enslaved. The evil women are enslaved rather
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: than killed, whereas the evil men are killed.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep, it's we We can't. We can't just kill them.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: We have to put them through something even worse, because
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: death is too scary and bad for women to handle. Apparently,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: Too scary for Jordan to handle. Right, he says it
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: in his books. I don't like killing women. He is
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: not a fan of it.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and here is the evidence of that, because it
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: really would have been satisfying for Tuan to just kill
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: Soroth with her bare hands in front of them, like
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: what Like that would be the entrance I'd want to
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: make as Suan to be like, oh, everyone in my
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: family is dead and I'm the only one left. I
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: need to show everyone I am not to be fucked with.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: What I would do is I would walk into a
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: court full of people and just rip someone's fucking throat
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: out with my bare hands and be like, anyone else
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: want to question me?
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: I think it would be really cool callback to have
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: her low par do it.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Uh huh exactly, walk in set the big kitty on
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: the bad lady. Mm hmmm, and like just let her
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: be torn limb from limb in front of everyone and say,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: anyone else have any fucking questions? Right, Like that would
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: be how I would want to re enter the space
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: as too on in that moment, rather than like, yeah,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: the death Watch guards are just gonna like put her
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: into the mass of enslavement whatever, Like give me some.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Guard, just like Troth is a threat. She should be killed.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: She shouldn't be kept as a doc oveil where she could.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: No, she's a dark friend. She has hurt our supergirls,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: Like she's the reason why Agwayne has all the trauma
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: that she has, well, most of the trauma that she has.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: Like her and Leandron oh Leandren's another one who gets
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: away with yeah, doesn't end up.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she just gets punished forever.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: That's all.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, which is that's actually interesting when you
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: think about, oh, we want to end all these bad
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: moral long term punishments, but all the bad guys are
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: like that's what their punishment is is to suffer forever, right,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: And if we get rid of all the slavery, that's
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: part of our world that we don't have a punishment
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: for the bad guys, sorry, bad girls.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: We need slavery in order to in order to Yeah, no,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: these are mental pretzels I would like to not be in.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: Please thank you.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that it's definitely a faith that we've noticed
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: as much. You know, I think Sanderson does a little
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: more of killing off of the women than Jordan did. Like,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: I mean we get you know, land fears killed by
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: paren and a lot of our you know, good female
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: heroes are killed off.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: But well that's it's different if they're the heroes.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: Right right.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, shall we finish with the Pavara p O V.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the hook for the next book. This
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: is really the next episode on Like, that's that's what
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: this is. This is not the tying up of a plot.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: This is the opening the opening plot, right, which is
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Pavara bonding Andral although we don't meant Androl in this one.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is the opening of how the
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Black Tower gets redeemed, right right, This is the beginning
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: of what leads to Logain not getting killed and being
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: able to take the mantle of power instead. Like this
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: is this is the beginning of that and yeah more
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: and more specifically, Yeah, the androl of it all is
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: made possible by Pavara, because what is an awesome strong
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: woman character for if not pumping up some random man
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: child that just like came in at the last minute.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: But why else would we have strong female characters if
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: not just make these men characters suddenly make sense?
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: Well duh, yes, anyway, anyway.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: I like Pavara. I like being in her head. I
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: like the way she thinks and deals with Uh, the
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: other eyes to die?
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: Do you want to go into the other ice of
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: diet al turn to Fear, Jezra, Malaire, the Sala Javindra.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be more relevant in the next book.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: I won't remember anything that we go over at this
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: point by the time we get to them, and the
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: next books will have to go over it anyway, But
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: I mean we could do a nutshell summary of them.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So these are all the ice tod eye that
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: essentially Pavara's, Like, I think there's some hint that they're
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: red and they don't absolutely fucking hate men.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, these are these six reds that they were able
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: to come up with Slash order to participate in the
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: first ever read Sisters Bonding Ashaman experiment.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: Now, Javindra is the one that Pavara sort of developed
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: the plan with, right, She was the red she helped
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: takes you on into custody. But she's been around for
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: a while, but more as just sort of Pavara's friend.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, No, Javindra is the one who had to
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: get ordered to do it. Javindra was only there at
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Sutama's command, given when Pavar and Tarna could not come
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: up with enough names to suit the highest So it's
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: Pavara and Tarna that come up with this plan.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just on looking at Pavara and Javandra meet
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: with Suitama in her rooms and discuss this plan.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm guessing that's after Sutama orders her to be
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: part of it. That's probably the interview to be like, yes,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: you're doing this now?
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah, So I don't think she was. She wanted
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: a different plan, I think, but she ended up getting
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: roped in or something like that. Dsala is part of
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: the group that captured leanne Ah. Okay, but that's the
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: only other time she's mentioned before this. That's in the
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: prologue knife of dreams. So she's a new knife of dreams,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: is said. I all right, Tarna fear she's actually been
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: around for a while. She's done a bunch of stuff. Yeah,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: so she Galina makes a pass at her, right, and
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: Tarna declines. She's sent to Saladar as as an emissary.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I remember her most for is her
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: interactions with Elaine in Saladar, and she's currently the keeper.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: She's replaced.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: R Okay, that's right.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: I mentioned here about how like she's here because she
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: feels committed to the cause because she helped conceive of it.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: But also it's going to be extra hard for her
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: to have orders given.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: That she's Yeah, it does make it does seem really
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: weird that she would leave the White Tower as keeper.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: She just got appointed after all VR and got discreted.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: It seems very, very politically sketchy. But she feels torn
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: in two directions, right, She's like, I helped conceive this plan.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: I can't not risk it with my fellow sisters, especially
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: given how few people we have to work with. So
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: she clearly is less committed to Alida's Omerlncy than she
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: is to the future of the world. You know exactly.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: Fouji any excuse to be away from Elida?
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Jezreel also a new Knife of Dreams, I said
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: I Her first mention is escorting a GWayne classes and
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: dosing with fork Root, so she's part of that, like
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: influenced by a GWayne group. But then the only other
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: mention is in this chapter of her.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: Oh is so she's one of the ones that Agwayne
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: is like trying to convince at one point. No, no, no,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: that's later, that's in the next book. That's a that's
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: a different jname. That's a different j name.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: Never mind, she's not in any she's not in any
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: of the Sanderson books.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: So she's not influenced by Agwayne per se.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. Last one is Malaire, also
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: a Knife of Dreams. Only character she confirms till Sylviana
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: that Leanne is who she says. She knows Leanne well
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: enough to answer the questions when people doubt who she
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: is because she was stilled. But again, only a Knife
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: of Dreams. So these a lot of these characters, even
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: though they're technically in the Black Tower and probably have
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: bonded somebody, they're not. Sanderson does not really bring them up.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: I was wondering about that because the Black Tower I
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: used to dipe plot really hinges around the other tower
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: eyes that the multi Adja embassy that got forcibly bonded
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: before they make up the bulk of the names that
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: I remember from how that plot goes down. Aside from Pavara,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: so as yeah, I was gonna ask, like the other
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: five reds, we don't see them again.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: Javindra is the only one. She and Pavara have a
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: conversation about, oh now we have to ask permission to
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: leave in Towers of Midnight.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: Okay. And so presumably they all get turned or any
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: of them dark friends.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: None of them are dark friends as far as we.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: Know, okay, okay, Yeah, So they presumably get turned and
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: burned up somehow during the battle.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, because all non all of them except Pavara are turned, right,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: is my understanding?
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh yeah, no, there isn't. Yes, there is another
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: scene with Tarna because Pavara looks into her eyes and
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: is like, that's not Tarna anymore.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, that's right.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, yeah, one, so we don't see that
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: happened to the rest of them, but it's very fair
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: to assume that it does give them that they don't
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: show up going ha ha. I have also had a
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: Pavara plot off on the side. Ah, that's that's a bummer.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: These are the Reds who like could have been the
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: good seeds of like a new thing because they were
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: willing to be part of this and they weren't dark friends.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: And yet they they get ground up in the in
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: the churn of this plot to the point that they
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: don't even get Paige time to show for their effort.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: Ugh. Rough, So all those that are just knife of dreams,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: they're just there to fill in the.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: Six that's a bummer. Yeah, yeah, that's gotta be yeah
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: stuff that that Sanderson let let go because he wanted
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: to do his own thing instead.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just there's there's so many ice a
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: eye he can't oh for sure, fate of every single
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: one of them.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, these were ones who were not worth it. Apparently
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: that's fine, We're not bitter at all.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: So they make a couple of rules. They're not gonna
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: bond anyone to showing signs of madness, which is I mean,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: they're all kind of showing signs of madness. So good
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: luck with that.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: Well, they don't know what they're walking into. The no,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: they're estimating, and.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: Later they decide no children. Right, that's the whole discussion
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: about how, oh, we're not going to bond. Ande was mad.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: We're also not going to bond anyone who's a child,
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: which freaks out the the oschman who are standing there
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: because they're like, what do you mean no children? No children?
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: What like?
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which like fair, Yeah, that's a fair concern to have, Like,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: what do you mean no children? What you need to
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: finish that sentence? Please?
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: But I mean I total they get why, right, because
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: not only do they see warders as like big, strong,
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: fighting men who might die like, there's also often a
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: very like intimate like sometimes romantic, sometimes sexual, always very
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: intimate connection. And they're like, we are hundreds of years old,
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: mature adult women, no intimacy with children, right, like, ugh,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: we're not weird of.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: No something interesting?
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: The wall, Yeah, the wall.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Was nowhere higher than four or five paces. She could
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: see right, really far, we've seen this, remarked. Weeds grew
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: along the uneven top. What I am was under these
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: understanding These were putting being put up by the power
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: and quickly, and like later on we are it's implied
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: that these are going up quickly and are being actively
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: built on a regular basis. Why the fuck is the
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: grass growing on top of it?
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: The only thing I can think is that Time took
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: all that construction energy and turned it into making his
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: palace that we see in lavish, elaborate detail later. That's
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: the best I can figure is that he was like, yeah,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: I'm building these walls, and now I'm building a palace.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: And now I'm push putting less and less effort into
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: the walls as I put more and more into the palace,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: because the palace is real, fucking built up. The palace
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: is not half finished.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: Gotcha, that makes sense. That makes sense. Okay, he's doing
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: Analaida right, I'm so only important thing and start and
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: put all of that dedication into Okay, So the wall
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: has been untouched for a while because the power has
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: been the thing he wants.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: Because five or six paces is enough to keep out
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: like casual passers by, gawker's sheep children throwing rocks. It's
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: enough to have secrecy.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: That's five or six yards. That's over my head, Like,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: that's not a short wall.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Like it's more than enough to put on
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: the appearance of making big walls like Tarvallen. But then
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: you know, much much like the Unfinished Wall in the
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: last chapter, it's a decoy for what's actually going on.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: I think that's why there's weeds on it is because
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: like the decoy has been serving its purpose for a while.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: Now we get a little bit about the training, right,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: we know they're being forced. The men are being forced
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: to hold as much power as possible, to gain power
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. Some of them are dying. The
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: White Tower would never have those losses because they find
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: their novices as special, unique flowers that they want to bloom,
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: whereas the Black Tower is trying to get ready for
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: the Boss battle in like two years.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: Right right, They're like training losses is what it is.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: It's fine. Yeah. I like how how her first reaction
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: to seeing the men with the different ranks is to
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: put them into the eyes to die ranks because Rand
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: very specifically patterned them after that, and you know, Pavara
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: is like immediately wants to think of them like that.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: I was like, no God to maintained my biases, and
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: it's like, no pravara, Like you're picking up on what
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: Rand is putting down. This is how it's supposed to be.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: But in a lot of ways, there is a very
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: different implication between novice and soldier. Right. A soldier is
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: someone who will fight and die for the cause, even
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: no matter how you know. This isn't a recruit, this
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: isn't a grunt. This is someone who is willing to
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: fight and die. That is true from the moment they arrive.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: And that also explains the different training regiment, because the
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: training regiment is the fight that you might die.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: From, right, And I mean, as you said, like we're
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: trying to create a battle ready force in two years.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: It's not the same as trying to create an institution
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: of learning that will last for thousands of years. They're
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: very different requests. Like it's not that it's one's better
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: than the other. I mean, objectively, one is better than
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: the other, but like they serve different purposes. And this
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: would make a lot of sense if it wasn't you know,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: a dark friend specifically ruining everything on purpose.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: So there's three people at the gate that they walk
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: up to. There's a dedicated who goes off to deliver
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: the message and then two soldiers and cousin and Sam
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: Samuel Alcene. Right, so we got an Alcene boy, we
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: got two rivers boys kid and then you know, uh
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: what is he Saltan or yeah?
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: No name on the dedicated I could find, really who
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: goes off?
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: Interesting?
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: Could not figure out who that was.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: So's he's a Mirandian. We know that.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking up a real time Black Power characters.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: Uh so we don't have a lot of dedicated Actually
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: most of them are either is said I or soldiers. No, No,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: no Morandian dedicate in list. As far as I can tell,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: nameless bro, a nameless bro. Nothing can't track him down,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: just just a bro.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: He just serves as a messenger. Yep, makes a gateway,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: goes through, comes back half an hour later, brings them through.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: That's all he does. Very very angrel of him, very page.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: Boy m M. And one assumes that this is their tower.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: They've been rised locations. They can make gateways exactly all day,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: every day.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: All of it, right, Yeah, the whole I would assume
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: that the entire site of the Black Tower is within
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: their gateway able radius.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: So they say, you know, take us take us to
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: your leader, your maheil.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they go through the palace, which might have
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: belonged to any noble with a taste for tapestries showing
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: battles and red and black floor tiles. Mm hmm, Like
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: where have we seen that theme before?
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: Morden? Right, So one assumes at this point that Tayim
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: is directly under the tutelage of Morden.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, I definitely think at this point he is fully
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: in his forsaken apparent ship phase.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: I mean I think he was before like Demandrad rescued him, right,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: that's the whole Like, Yes, whether he was Demondrad at
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: any given point, any of those things that are similar
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: between them can be explained because he was rescued by
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: Demandrad from the isid eye and trained by a forsaken
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: before he showed up to hang out with Matt with Rand.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: But now he's like got his power, got his directive,
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: is like performing his task basically, like all right, like
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: you're doing the thing, here's a little juice, like say
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: what you can do with it? Baby foresaken. He's a
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: baby foresaken right now?
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so this Morandian is like the mail doesn't
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: associate with the likes of me. That makes me wonder
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: like this has got to be one of the good
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: quote unquote.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: And or there's just an MLM hierarchy vibe going on,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: you know, like if you earn enough points by bashing
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: enough heads, then you can be allowed into his presence
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: for a few moments. You know, cult a personality shit.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: And it's a big palace that they get led through
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: like it is elaborate, it is fancy. It seems like
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: you should be prioritizing the walls before your palace. But
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: go off a laid a two point zero and.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: Don't forget that anyone with both the dragon and the
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: sword is probably a dark friend.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: At this point, I think everyone.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: Any everyone in the Black Tower, right, they're they're Achaman
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: with par and they're Aschaman with Rand with the sword
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: and the dragon collar. But anyone who's in the tower
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: with the sword of the Dragon, I'm pretty sure is
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: a dark friend or turned.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at this point, I believe that that is correct,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: that if they have both pins and they're in the
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: room with Tayim, they are on his team.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So as they're going in Broadstone stairs rose to
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: a wide landing in front of tall twined doors. Each
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: bore a gaunt lid fist gripping three lightning bolts, carved
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: large and gilded.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you're telling me about this before we turned
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: recording on.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: Uh so that that line took me down a rabbit hole,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: a very very deep rabbit hole that went absolutely nowhere.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: So to save you from going down that same rabbit hole,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: I will say. There are three times in the Presence
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: of Forsaken where a fist clutching lightning bolts is mentioned.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: In the Dragon Reborn chapter fifty one, when the girls
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: are kidnapped by Blall right or the Black Adjaw associated
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: with Simon, they are kidnapped in a carriage that has
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: a fist holding lightning bolts, right, So there you've got
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: your Ballall connection. Then in the Fires of Heaven in
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: Teleroan Riad, the back of Samuel's throne has that same symbol, right,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: so then you've got this link. But at that point
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: Blall's dead because he've died long dead, right, he got
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: bailt well a book dead, Oh blog got bail fired
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: at the end of Dragon Reborn and the Fire of
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: Heaven short short dead. And so I was trying to
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: somehow link some not dying at the in shot our
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: logos escaping and being tight or somehow influencing like does
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: not work. There's a little bit in a crowd of swords,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: Samiel and Taime are almost looks like that one could
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: be one person could be traveling. Right They're in alternating chapters,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: and it almost feels like you could have the character
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: be in both. But then there's a moment where the
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: scene continues like ten chapters later between Tayem and Rand,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: and in that time, Samuel has been doing stuff and
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: so it's just not possible for them to be the
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: same person, right, Like, But I went really deep into this, like, Okay,
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: they both have the same symbol on their backs. The
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: best I can come up with is that somehow it's
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: like the under mahal Right, it's like a battle leader,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: someone who was in charge of troops or someone maybe
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: a symbol, right, it's the symbol of power. Are lightning
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: bolts in a fist is the symbol of a man channeler,
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: So maybe that's all it is.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does seem to be that a fist clutching
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: lightning is an expression of masculine magical violence. And force right, power, right.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: But I'm just trying to connect these three events where
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: like the symbol appears three times and it's all Forsaken related.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: Right, Maybe it means bad guy with magic. Maybe that's
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: what Robert Jordan is telegraphing. Is it's like when they're
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: trying to hide in plain sight, they use a fist
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: clutching lightning. Like that's just how bad guys think when
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: they want to like be clever and also you know, obscure.
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: There's stuff, just a tiny bit.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: What I do find funny though, is everything that Mahel
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: touches is gilded. It's not gold, it's gilded.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: That seems deliberate.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: That seems very deliberate, including these fists with lightning bolts.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: It's not real gold, it's gilded. He's not a real Forsaken,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: He's a gilded Foresaken.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just some.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: Were taken on the outside.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: Exactly given the title. But like eh, I also notice
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: he he does really like to wear the dragons on
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: his coat, but he doesn't want to wear the pins.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: He wants to take on the yes, the trappings and
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: authority of the Dragon reborn. He doesn't want to actually
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: accept the hierarchical system that the literal dragon reborn impost
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: right right.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: He very much makes a point of I am not
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: part of the system, right like.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: But also he's willing to lean on the iconography if
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: it will work on his audience, right Like, he's he's
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: slimy and two faced like that. He can't even stand
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: on his own principles. He has no principles, right.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: The chamber of the Terran led them to as a
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: throne room where a ring of spiral cut black colmn
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: sported on blah blah blah blah. It's interior layered with
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: gilt and half filled with gilded lamps hanging on gilded chains.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: I think Jordan is pointing out the guild yep.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And then he points out that every single one
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: of the men that's in the room all have like
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: hard faces, leering faces, cruel faces. And I'm like, any
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: group where you've got a hundred people who are all
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: just looking at you at the same expression, you should
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: be red flagging all over the play, Like, even if
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: it's a happy face, you should still be worried. If
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: there's one hundred people who are all unanimously having an
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: emotion at you, like that is real scary.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: The floor tiles were red and black here too. It's
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: just like forsaken, forsaken, forsaken, forsaken, like the number of
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: like forsaken things that are being you know, Jordan's just like, yes,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: Tam is a bad guy, just in case you were wondering.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: Sorry time, It's like the os does he not have
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: ominous music playing out of hidden speakers somewhere in these hallways? Right,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: Like it's just so clearly a bad idea to walk
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: into this thing. But like as I said, die, they
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: think all of my training is to be unnerved by
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: these men. I need to ignore all these warning signals
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: because I'm just being overly sensitive. Like now you're streets
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: sparts who checks them at the door? Bad call back call.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was tall, strong, knows an air of physical
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: strength about him, an air of darkness too. Yeah, that
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: would be the true power.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's his intimidation weaves, that's his connection to
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: the dark one. That's him knowing that he hangs out
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: with forsaken on his lunch break, Like it's he's radiating
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: scary shit and they're just like, we're just reds who
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: are overly sensitive to Ashamon will be fine. You're not
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: gonna be fine. You're not gonna be fine at all.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: So they say, we wanted to discuss bonding. Oshamano's orders. Right,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: you've bonded fifty one sisters against their will, and remember
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: he lets them bond forty seven, and like that's a
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: very particular number. Why is that? And it's because some
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: of them already been bonded. So Misriel, right, is this
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: Oshaman who goes he's tall, golden haired man, says why
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: should we allow isid I to take any And he
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: says m and then Tayim cracks his head. I mean
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: because he was about to say anymore. He was about
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: to give away that isid I tower isid I or
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: uh no? Wait which I said? I are these the rebel,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: I said, I didn't they send a delegation Rain's I said,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: I who's already bonded? Ashman, I'm getting the groups of
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: isid I confused.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, So you're asking why should we allow us?
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: Where did those Ashaman come from? Is that was that
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: the question?
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Misrael is about to give away the fact
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: that the rebel, I said, I waiting outside agreed to
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: bond forty seven? Is that already happened? Oh, they went
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: to shout our logos after the cleansing, decided that there
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: was a threat, and so sent a delegation to the
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: Black Tower to propose bonding.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: Right, and what happened with them? They're still just a
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: vibein on the outside. Oh okay, so they are entires
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: of midnight, still waiting insure using So Tayim makes those
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: weight on the outside, but then receives this delegation of
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: reds and because Chaos says, sure, you can bond and
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: my men without making them way or anything, because he's
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: like the Chaos of of having six reds is way
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: better than the other delegation with way more women. Like
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: this is a small enough group to overwhelm.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: So do they have already agreed they have agreed to
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: with the rebel, I said, I to bond forty seven.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they haven't actually followed through with it. They've
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: simply broken the agreement, right right, Okay, So then yeah,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: that is the line. Why should we allow isid I
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: to take a name more? Because like, yeah, they all
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: saw tiny make that deal, though obviously it hasn't gotten
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: followed through.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: With, so four have to be already bonded, right, because
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: remember there were fifty one isid I in Elida's group
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: that got bonded. And the reason they are allowing the
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: rebels forty seven is because four of them have already
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: been bonded, right, right? Who are those four? There's so
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: many different delegations. I think we got them all. It's
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: hard to keep them straight.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: It is. I've never felt the need to keep them
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: as straight as the podcast requires me to keep them. Yeah,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: I agree, a fall on. It's six is just different
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: than forty seven. That's an order of magnitude different. They
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: also show up with not nearly enough eyes to Die
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: to bond fifty one, right, men, it's like times four
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: is only twenty eight.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: Well, but that's not their goal, right, That was the
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: other group, that was the rebel group, Right, The rebel
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: group showed up with way more. Yeah, okay, anyway, I'm
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm done. My brain stop working. It's like, yeah,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: there's too much research. Have fun cutting that up, editing radio.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: We talk.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: The important thing is that the rebel eyes to die
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: are being stalled and the red eyes to Die are
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: brought right into the fold because they're a much easier
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: delegation to absorb and turn and keep captive.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, and they do pretty much get absorbed and turned
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: and kept captive.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, because that's what they did with the other
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: Red delegation, right, the last time that there was a
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: Red attack force, they all got bonded and attacked. Right,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: the rebels show up and that's a weirder thing. So
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: they're being held at arm's lengths. But now Reds showed
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: up again, and it's like, oh, we know what we
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: do with Reds. We already have an established way of
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: dealing with Reds. Yeah. Yeah, so that's that's a head scratcher,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: but also just ultimately it comes out bad for everyone. Yes, yes,
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: so yeah, Missralla gets hit in the head for almost
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: spilling the beans about the rebel isid ie. That is
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: where this entire mess came from, is Missralla almost spills
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: beans and gets his skull cracked for his trouble.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're trying to figure out what beans he was spilling.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. Yeah, And yeah, his skull is cracked. He
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: needs healing, but he's not going to get it until
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: after this audience is over, right, Like the one Isidie just.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: So brutal and cruel Yeah.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: We've seen that before with them. But yeah, you gotta
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: wonder how many training losses are just from cruelty rather
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: than from like literally losing control with the power. And
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: it was an unavoidable result of forcing, Like you could
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: have just healed the man's concussion.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: Or the brain bleed because the skull this isn't concussion.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: His skull is cracked like that concussion.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's but I mean we've seen it over and
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: over again. They hit each other in the head and
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: then say if they live through the night, will heal them?
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: This isn't the first time, No, it's it's terrible and
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: like literally one of the eyes that I says with
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: your permissions sort of as a perfunctory thing and tell
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: you is like I literally explicitly do not give you permission.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: I am going to take time out of my day
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: to make sure that this man does not get medical attention,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: which is just like a terrible way to engender loyalty.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: In my opinion. It seems to work for the bad
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: guys and all the thing, all the stories, all the movies,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: all the books, it seems to.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: Work, but works for the NFL.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: My brain hurts just literally thinking about it.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: So I mean, yeah, So he says, yeah, sure, no problem,
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: and then laughs the most evil like that scene Awesome
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: Powers where they're doing the evil laugh and then they
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: peter out, Like that's exactly what I'm imagining, because it's
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: like what happens after the evil laugh that everybody in
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: the room like this is just jackals cawing at them.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's chilling, Yes, it's chilling.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: It is very much the hyenas in Lion King circling
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: around and giggling. It's like, there is no way to
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: read this that isn't ominous. It simply does not exist, right,
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah I can, And yeah he's like, you know, she
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: gives her explanation for oh you know we're allowed to
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: bond Ashawan and he's just like are you done talking? Okay?
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: Fine whatever, Yeah, Like what do you what do you
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: want me to say? Fair's fair? Let go for it.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: Have have have good luck with that. He basically says,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: good luck.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: We enjoy grabbing the tiger by the tail, right, Like.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: It's like, not my problem. If you want to fuck around,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: here's a room full of find out. Have at it.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: It's uh, it's almost And then he really reinforces the
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: fact that he is fully forsaken right with his last line,
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: because we know that let the Lord of Chaos rule
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: is an injunction from the dark one direct from Shah cool, right, Like,
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: no one's saying that who is not like close to
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: the top of where all the evil is coming from.
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: And we've done speculation about who is the lord of chaos?
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: Is that rand? Is it just? But it's just it's
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: just letting shit go bad?
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is not just one lord of chaos. Chaos
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: has a decentralized hierarchy, you know, for all that it's
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: about people. Yeah, it is chaotic. It you can't cut
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: the head off of chaos. That's not a thing. Chaos
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: is chaos.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: So I kind of wish we'd learned, Like there've been
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: a little more about that in the final three books.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure the term lord of Chaos ever comes
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: up again.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: But it's the title of a book, so it's you know,
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: that is an exercise to the reader.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: It's like Winners when Winter's Heart appears in a couple
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: of other books, or Path like Path Dragger's Knife of Dream,
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: Winner's Heart Lord of Chaos. Those have all appeared in
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: other books as something somebody has said.
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's it's a fun way to name books.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: It's like naming your album. One of the random lyrics
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: from a song, you know, looking at you, Lannis Morset
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: is ironic, sh jagged. So yeah, I won't do the readout?
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: Can I do the readout?
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: Do you want to read us out? The final Robert
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: Jordan other than New Spring? This is the last bit
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: that Robert Jordan wrote for us.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be my honor. But where do I start?
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: Time shook his head. You do not have my permission.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: If Mishailah survives till nightfall, he'll be healed. Perhaps the
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: pain will teach him to guard his tongue. You say
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: you want to bond orders Reds. That last word carried
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: a great deal of contempt, which Pavara chose to ignore.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: Tarna's eyes could have turned the sun to an icicle,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: though Pavara laid a cautionary hand on the other woman's
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: arm as she spoke. Reds have experience with men who
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: can channel mutters. Rose among the watching ashaman angry mutters.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: She ignored that too, we are not afraid of them.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: Custom can be as hard to change as law, harder
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: at times, but it has been decided to change ours. Henceforth,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: red sisters may bond warders, but only men who can channel.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: Each sister may bond as many as she feels comfortable with.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: Given the green for example, I think that is unlikely
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: to be more than three or four. Very well, Pavara blinked,
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: in spite of herself. Very well. She must have misunderstood him.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: He could not have been convinced so easily. Time's eyes
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: seemed to bore into her head. He spread his hands,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: and it was a mocking gesture. What would you have
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: me say? Fair as fair equal shares? Accept very well,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: and ask who will let you bond them? Besides, you
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: must remember the old saying let the lord of chaos rule.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: The chamber erupted with men's laughter. Pavara had never heard
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: any saying like that. The laughter made the hair on
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: the back of her neck try to stand.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: Crazy. End of Book eleven of the Wheel of.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: Time, The end of book A Book eleven, the end
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: of Robert Jordan's non prequel books. We can read the appendix.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: Right, No buck, end of an era.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: That's an end of an era, an end of a year,
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: an end of like the entire first like creative half
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: of the I just that's wild.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: Wasn't the ending, but it sure is ending.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: It definitely is an ending. That is an ending to
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: be stared at in awe. Yeah, thank you very much
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: everyone for joining us for this book. We will do
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: tangents and then we'll take a quick break and then
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: we'll be back with mister Sanderson's book.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: Was my audio any better on the last one with
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: the barrier up? Does that help with the room?
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: It's such a big difference when you when you covered it,
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: like you can hear it in the audio, just like
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: it's like echoe, and then suddenly it's soft and closed
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: and you're like, is that better? It's like, sure, that
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: is so much better.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to make sure I put that up
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: or I mean, I'll try and remember too, but yeah, it's.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, it's makes a big difference.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: It's it was acceptable, and then I got lazy and
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: stopped putting it up, and I'm not hearing the audio difference.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's because the room was absolute chaos.
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, with the wedding.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: In the way, it was just like it was it
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: was too.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: Much wedding stuff. Yeah, that's right, because the room was
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: full to the brim of boxes for wedding crap.
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So it was I was like, I'm not
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: going to tell you how to manage your room, which
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: is also a storage cluse. Right at this point, Yeah,
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: at this point I can start I can start shining
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: you for getting it up there totally.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: I have two things left to do post wedding. I
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: have to rearrange the garage because there's a bunch of
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: wedding stuff in there that needs to go into storage.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: And they need to rearrange the office because we decided
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: we need totally change how we're using the office. We've
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: gotten all all the other to do list stuff done
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: except for thank you cards. Thank you cards are written
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: and sitting in a box and have been for about
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: two weeks. So thank you cards need to get mailed out.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think Brandon and I.
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: Ever, we had two minutes too much help from too
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: many people to get away with that.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, we did not do quite as wedding
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: ee of a wedding as you. But I'm like remembering, like,
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, that that dragging, nagging, sensation never actually resolved.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: I think that we just still have half written thank
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: you sitting in a box somewhere.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: Because ours are sealed, embossed and signed, and they just
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: need to be stamped and sent, so we need to
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: swing by the post office and drop them off.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm proud of you. That's very adult, very responsible.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: Well, but they will probably still sit there for two
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: months before that happens. That was awesome. Kelsey and Travis
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: sent me this like really cool embosser that like, you know,
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: it says like never from ex Lee Ray, never in
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: seth from the library, never in seth and then big
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: snn letters.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember she messaged me asking for your shipping
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: address and I was like, you're not coming to the wedding.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: She's like, oh stupid bullshit. Life shit came up. Can't
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: make it. Grumble grumble grumble. So I was really hoping
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: that that meant that there was a cool an embosser
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: so your books can be stamped. That is so thoughtful.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: That is all brand.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: That's what's so good of it is like, oh yeah,
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: that was very on brand for me, because like we
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: didn't get a lot of presents for the wedding. We
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: asked for people to mostly donate to the honeymoon because
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: otherwise we couldn't afford a honeymoon.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: And did that work?
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I will say that the generosity of Never's
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: friends and family and my friends and family were enough
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: that the wedding and the honeymoon were basically paid for.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: Nice, so you can have the experience without right constantly
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: being like and we're going to be deeper in debt.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: So basically, yeah, it was you know, and certainly you know,
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: some people were very generous, some people gave what they could.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: It was all, you know, it all contributed. My parents
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: especially contributed more than I thought they would, which was
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: very nice with them. And so the whole thing ended.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: Up the huge bevy of siblings you have to share
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: their generosity.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's good. I think they're all that matters today.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: It's butocal shout outs to chat who's feeling I'm.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: Sorry that we are taking a while to get to
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: the wheel of time stuff. That's the benefit. That's the
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: shall we say, the danger of being alive. Because in
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: the editing this all goes at the end. You can
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: ignore it. You can skip right past it. That music
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: pops on, you go, We're nope, don't care. Your lives
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: are boring, which is fine, but man, we it's like
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: letting off steam before you actually start the boiler or something.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That's a terrible analogy, but you get
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying. No, exactly, that's why it's a terrible analogy.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: That's not how boilers work at all. I know that.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's uh. You know, me and a RADI
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: are good friends and sometimes this is the only chance
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: we get to catch up, so it helps us get
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: in the rhythm of things. And yeah, it's the social
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: warm up to the boiler. Right, Yeah, you can't. You
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: can't get hot water until you turn the until you
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: turn the hot water on heater for half an hour
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: or so.
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: Right, if you have one of those heaters, yes.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: Do you have instant water hot water?
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: No, we just have a hot water heater that's.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: On on all the time. Yes, but we have a
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: traditional if it were to turn off for a week,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: you would have to turn it on and warm it
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: back up for a while, is what I'm trying to say.
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, like when the power comes out and we don't Yes, absolutely,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: I really want to get an on demand water heater
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: for our kitchen, specifically because the hot water heater is
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: on the opposite side of the house.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: So it takes a while.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: And so like occasionally I've run the dishwasher at night
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: and I hear this weird ticking noise and it's like,
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: that's the sound of the fucking plumbing under our bedroom
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: heating up as hot water is drawn from this end
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: of the house over to the dishwasher. I'm like, this
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: is garbage. I'm being woken up to the sound of
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: energy just being waste. This is trash.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, hopefully they're insulated pipes, but you know
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: they're probably not.
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure they're insulated for code, but it's
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: still wasteful. Like we could just have a little because also,
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: like dishwashers don't take that much actual water, no, but
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: the run from the hot water heater to the dishwasher
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: is like a long way. So I'm just like, I
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: feel like this could be more efficient.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I live in one of the apartments where
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: all the plumbing sort of comes up through a center
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: column and then like the bathroom and the kitchen or
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: radial out from that. So like everything's just behind a wall, right,
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: Like the plant pipes are only like that long.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: Yet that makes sense, and this is why apartment living
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: is the more like environmentally friendly way to live. I
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: will not be giving up my single family dwelling until
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: I absolutely have to, but I understand that it is
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: like a more environmentally unfriendly decision.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like no people at cities, and like they're gross
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: and disgusting or whatever, they're wasteful, but it's like, do
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: you know how many people are packed into that space
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: compared to being out in the countryside.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: They're much less gross and disgusting. Now we have a
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: proper understanding of plumbing. Yes, yes, Like cities literally used
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: to populations from the country because they were so deadly,
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: but that changed once we figured out a couple of
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: things about waste management, like a couple of things about
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: germ theory and like quality of air and water, and
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: that really changed a lot.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: I heard New York figured out trash cans. Who recently
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: did you hear about this?
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 2: I did, actually, if it was like a John Oliver
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: piece or something, yeah.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, But they just used to put trash
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: bags out on the curb and they got picked up
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: and for some reason they had a wrap problem can bat.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't see how those things No, no, no, flag, All.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: Right, Shall we make Spoduncle Happle happy and actually talk
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: about Prince of the Ravens? Nah?
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: I think we should specifically unhappy and keep bullshitting about
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: ancient cities. We literally put our headphones on at the
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: same time, like literally, it's.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: It's all about being synchronized. That's how we do this podcast.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a very specific set of brain cells
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: that we share for doing this podcast. It's kind of
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: like orange cats.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: I don't think we have that any brain cells, let's
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: be honest. Yeah, tea is good. I'm switching to Bark's
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: root beer. Mm hmmm. Oh god, what sugar root beer?
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: Root beer? Oh?
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, hate root beer? I hate it. See I hate
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 2: mint most in the world.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: Are we going to have an issue?
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: I hate licorice.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: So was licorice and root beer have in common some recipes?
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: They they both taste the same awful to me. I
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: hate them.
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: Wow. Wow.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: I hate rut beer. Oh my god, No, no, no, no,
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: absolutely not never ever. I hate because it tastes like anger.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: So I've been I have to announce the end of
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: the Lots Boilers podcast. Apparently we can't work together anymore.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, it's been a good run.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: It's been a good run. Now it's you should have
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: should have hid that for longer, it's really could you
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: just go back into the closet about hating? Uh barks?
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: No, this is part of my unmasking journey, owning the
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: things I hate. Yeah, no, I I don't know. It's
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: I cannot, I cannot.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: Just this role.
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: Wait wait, hold on, wow, I'm leaning away from the
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: computer with.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: The sounds going with Yeah, I'm in your ears.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: So earlier I told you I had Bluetooth set up,
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: so now I can hear it on my phone. I
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: went back to wired because my computer could not give
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: me a signal that wasn't pixelating and scratching out. It
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: was like literally too much work for the computer to
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: put that signal out. And I was like, nope, nope,
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: we're wiring back in. Thank you.
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: I'm a wired guy.
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I I need a longer cable. I guess, so
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: that way, I'm just less limited. But oh well, is.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: It just a three point five jack on both ends?
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just that these are my bluetooth headphones and
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: it just came with a cable, so I don't have
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: to have special headphones over here. I can just sit
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 2: down in my normal head because like others have to
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: get my other ones. Like, look, headphone headphones are a problem.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: Headphones and microphones. Yeah, I do need to look into
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: getting a new microphone set up.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when are you doing that? When is Chloe getting
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: your microphone?
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah? We should we well, maybe we should talk about
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: that after we're done here and we can talk about
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: buying me a new setup, because she's not getting this
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: one until I get the new one.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: Exactly right, exactly Yeah. I actually my support coach, he
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: really wants to make a podcast too, and so I
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: gave him just a few opinions about microphones, and pretty
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: soon he's like, so I got the microphone you told
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 2: me to get. I'm like, sir, not what happened there,
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: but okay, he's very autistic.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: Shockingly, what microphone did you recommend? This same one? Yeah?
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe I don't even remember.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I assume you're gonna want me to get the
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: same one you've got, right, I think that was what
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: our final.
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you were talking about going for an XLR
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: and getting an interface.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: I had an interface. I gave you my interface.
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: Remember, Yeah, that is how I got that, isn't it?
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: It works great.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: Because the original mics were USB xl R. They could
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: do both. They were dual, and so I got the anyway.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, after after the after the audience is freed, they
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: want to hear us talk about the epilogue. Thank you
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: rate and review us on your podcast app and considers
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: reporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt Spoilers
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 2: is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For more
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website at
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: foxendravenmedia dot com.