Latest / WoT Spoilers / Something Wrong & A Rabbit for Supper - Towers of Midnight chapters 56 & 57 - EP580

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Something Wrong & A Rabbit for Supper - Towers of Midnight chapters 56 & 57 - EP580 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time spoilers. Podcast recording is
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: on on a computer that was built this decade.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Same over here. The computers that were using are at
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: least newer than the podcast. Oh that's so true, even
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: if the processes are not.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, our processes have not really changed since last decade.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: For sure. The processes that we're using on these computers
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: are older than the computers. Lord. So today we're doing
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the last regular chapter episode of the book. We still
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: have the epilogue to do after today, but this is
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the last chapter episode.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, we're doing the last two chapters, so fifty
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: six and fifty seven kind of the end. This almost
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: feels a little epilogy to me.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because that was such a huge high peak.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: This is a calmdown.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Definitely, sure, definitely, And there's actually the epilogue feels because
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: it's like leading in the last battle. I feel like
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: the epilog is almost a more plot heavy chapter than
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: this one. I almost feel like you could switch it
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: and make this the end. Does that make sense, Like
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: if an epilog is just sort of something that happens
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: after and the last chapter should be the exciting stuff.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean yeah, it depends on where you want
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the hook. Do you want the hook at the end
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: of the chapters or do you.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Want it at the end of the book right right.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Because this is very much a wrapping up and a
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: coming down and a putting away. And then the epilogue
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: is just nothing but hooks for the next book. Cigarette
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: after the climax, Yeah, basically.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Something Tom and Marine are going to need pretty soon.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, doctor pants, that is a good way
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: of looking at it. This is the epilogue. And then
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the epilogue is a misnamed.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Tea yeah after the credit totally, it's a prologue prolog
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: to the prologue for the last.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Book, right right, which I appreciate. I like a book
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: that you know the next one's coming out to to
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: have that one coming out be like, no, here, here's
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: your teasers, here's the things to look forward to, Like
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: we basically have the release date for the next book
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: ready to go, like, yeah, let's go. But yeah, we're
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: starting today chapter fifty six with something wrong and our
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: symbol is the dragons fang becuz this is why why
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: what's something wrong?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: There's I think it's dark. We got the Black Tower.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the Black Tower POV
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: where they figure out that even andrewl can't make a
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: gateway out.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: And there's something like in his the guy's eyes, right,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: like that's the whole like yeah.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, the turning, the turned soul.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Look, I'm curious if this is the phrase something wrong
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: is actually use in the chapter.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I think it is, but I forget already. But we
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: start with a Gwain. That's the POV that we start
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the chapter with. And yeah, we're getting a very strong
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: sense of this is our characters as they are setting
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: up to go into the battle. There's no more gear
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: to acquire, there's no more level ups to acquire, there's
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: no more relationships to level up. Like this is them
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: dressed to the nines at the fields of Marillor, ready
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: to start the final engagement, which of course has some
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: preambling character development.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Right right, this is the stage for the final battle.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: They are just so ready, Like her chair is sturdy,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: they're married, they're bonded, They're wearing clothes appropriate to their station.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: You know, there's no loose threads hanging off as we
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: open the scene, say, I guess I can read us.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: In Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, this is worth reading.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: A soft knock came at the post outside of Gwaine's tent. Come,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: she said, shuffling through the papers on her desk. One
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: slipped in. He'd given up his fine clothing, choosing trousers
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: of brown and a slightly lighter shirt. A warder's color
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: shifting cloak hung around his shoulders, making him blend into
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: his surroundings. Agwayn herself was wearing a regal dress of
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: green and blue. His cloak rustled as he took a
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: seat beside her. Elaine's army is crossing. She sent word
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: that she's on her way to come visit our camp. Excellent,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Agwyn said. Gowan nodded, but he was troubled. Such a
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: useful thing, that ball of emotions caused by the bond.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: If she'd known earlier the depth of his devotion to her,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: she'd have bonded him weeks ago.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, while he's carrying around the fucking three rings
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: from the blood knives that he's going to use to
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: basically murder her with.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: He's so devoted and he cares so much, and he
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: does his job so well. Also, he's been all the
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: evasive about those three rings he's wearing like he has
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: three secret lovers. I should probably press him on that,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: but later, it's fine. His devotion to me is unquestioned.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Everything's good.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: It's giving me. No, he was innocent of the thing
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: that put him in jail for seventeen years when he
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: was eighteen. Sorry, that's a specific example of somebody I know.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: He's like, no, it's fine, he's not that bad. He's
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: just lying to me about the most important things in
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: our lives.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wish that this was not how this was going.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I think, especially knowing the outcome and knowing what he
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: does later. It's just it's so hard to be skeptical,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: to be accepted accepting.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: No, this looks fine. This looks fine on the front
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: of it. He's changed his dress code, he's changed the
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: way he talks to her. He seems to have turned
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: a corner. And if he had just taken those three
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: rings as a trophy to remind him, as a token,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: like a personal reminder, it would be fine. It would
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: be fine, Like this could this could be real. This
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: could be real. We know it's not, and that's the problem.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: We know. The second he has an opportunity for glory,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: he runs headfirst into it, into the meat grinder.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: He's addicted to being the hero and he's currently on
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: a fast. He's currently quit being a hero, but he
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: will be tempted to relapse and it will get Agwaine killed.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: And he's still stuck on all thor Right, what if
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: he's doing this to distract everyone else from like this
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: whole paranoia I mean, and partially it's on a Gwain side,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: but he's still convinced that Rand is messing with them
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: by having this gathering.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unfortunate that Agwaye is so set against him
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: because I feel like if she is more being reasonable
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: about Rand, like we've said she should many times, then
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: she would be talking him down out of that paranoia spiral.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: But instead she's yes ending it. Right, Like, Gowan has
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: this opportunity to let go, this opportunity to off ramp
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: from that spiral that he's been on. Agwayne could be
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: helping him with that transition, but instead she's reinforcing the
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: spiral and yes anding his new explanation to not trust Rand.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, she literally says, well, he knows he shouldn't
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: break this seals At a subconscious level, this is a
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: cry for help, just like this is the probably convinced
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Gwen to stop being weird about Rand well.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: And this this whole not giving him agency, right, not
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: let being like, oh maybe the dragon reborn is like
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: actually planning something out and using me to gather the forces.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: She figures it out later, right that, like, he's basically
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: she's gathering all the forces that are loyal to her,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: and and that's causing all the forces that are loyal
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: to him to oppose them. And then they're all together
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: and all asked. Does convinced her? Right, that whole thing
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: that he goes through, and it's like, yeah, he's using you,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: but like to unite everybody. It's this weird like, I
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: don't know her assumptions about Rand driving me nuts, her
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: assumptions that he's just like doesn't understand what he's doing
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: when he's just manipulating her to get what he wants.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I think it has a lot to do with assuming
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: that he can't be trusted to be in his own
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: right mind because he's insane. Right, there's the whole there's
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the taint and the madness and how he's been behaving
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: for the past eighteen months, and so he's literally too
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: insane to know his own right mind, and we have
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: to take that agency from him. And it's incredibly infantilizing
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: and dare I say ablest and you know, paternalistic. It's
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: what the White Tower does.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: And once it go to the fact that he's healed
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: himself on you know, veins of gold.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is what the White Tower does. Right,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: She's got three thousand years of institutional momentums saying men
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: who can channel are the worst. Men are in general
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the worst. And a man who we know is insane
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: absolutely one could never be trusted to know up from down,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: much less how to handle the end of the world
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: and the seals despite being the dragon rewar like, it's
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: such a hypocritical and contradictory worldview. But she is the
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: mulancy whole hog. So of course she's expressing that against
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: all of what we know about her as a person
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: as gwayn Alvier, as the farm girl, right, I mean,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: she happily gave that part of herself up, you know.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I see people are arguing, like in chat
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Nathlon and Foujie are saying, like, you know, this is
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: kind of like she doesn't know he's gone through veins
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: of gold, and he's done all these crazy things, and
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden he goes zen. That feels
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: like a pretty suicide thing, and that she knows he's
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: gonna die, Like, can you trust this person who maybe
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: you'd be going off the deep end? I mean in
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: a zen kind of way.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: She does kind of know about vans of gold, in
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: the sense that she talked with Elaine afterward about how
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: he had changed, and Elaine said, he feels warm now,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: like she does know that something happened. I totally agree
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: with Fouji. I would be too be worried if someone
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: suddenly became all zen after a couple of years are
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: going through the ringer. But Agwayne's not worried about him.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Awainne's assuming that he's already a lost cause and that
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: it's her right to swoop in and tell him what's what.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: She doesn't express the worried that I would have expected
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: from his childhood friends. She expresses the authority of the
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: ombreland seat.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, no, she's very much the ambulance seat.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I would have liked it if some of his friends
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: had been like, dude, this is a really intense mood
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: change are you sure you're okay? Like that would have
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: been a super cool conversation. Maybe have a grain and
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: be like I found some yellows who specialize in mental illness,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Like you want to talk to someone about hurting yourself.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: That would have made sense. But instead she's just like,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I'm the only adult.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: In the room. There are no yellows too specialize in
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: mental illness. They consider mental health out of the realm
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: of specialty.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Fourth age yellows. Please do better.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: They can't heal it with power, so it does not count.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna need somebody to realize that hugging it out
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: is a meaningful form of therapy and make that a science. Anyway,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: we're going to go talk to Elaine. Now, we're going
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to go meet with the Queen of andor Slash, the
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: sister in law of the Ombreland seat.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: There's this other army. It's not a true army. It's
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: a bunch of farmers. I assume that's the people who
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: we saw in the prologue.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, it has to be, it has to be. We
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: heard the call. There's just a siren song, a magnetic pull.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: It's all the animals pointing north right like that's what
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: that is, I assume.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I like how he says it's a small army. I
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: would loved if it was a giant army, like a
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: huge group, because if you just have because I feel
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: like if you have civilians come forward, that should be
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the biggest army.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: But like, is it a small army given that it's
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: ten thousand strong, Like, wasn't that a big army two
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: years ago in these books? Like it's impressive, but yeah,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: it would have been cool if it was one hundred thousand.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Is that a new one? She asked, gesturing toward a
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: smaller force that had taken up position just below the ruins.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, they don't give a number. They'd
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: say it's a smaller force.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Two paragraphs down. They seem to varied bunch, with the
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: mismatched tents and little understanding of how to set up
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: an army camp. But there did seem to be some
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: five or ten thousand of them. I feel like we
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: had generals commenting that five thousand was a massive army
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: before all this shit started. Yes, so it's still impressive, but.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Now it's pretty insignificant, especially with the ale.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm to say these people are farmers, like,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: they aren't professional soldiers. They just suddenly spontaneously formed an
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: army that a mere two years ago would have been
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: considered like nation shaking. It's pretty impressive if.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: You look at the population numbers. Sometimes I wonder like,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: I just I feel like, and I've verified this with research,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: but I feel like I've read it multiple times that
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: like the numbers of people actually involved are not as
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: big as they should be based on like the homies.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've said that on air before. I also have
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: not looked into it, but you've said it enough times
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that I just believe you.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: I assume someone would have corrected me by now if
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I was completely off base.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: True, true, Okay, Athleen, it's pushing back on my assumption
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: at five or ten being a lot. Well, I mostly
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: care about military stuff to the extent that Robert Jordan
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: made me care about it. It's not my strong suit.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, on saying, ye brought like one hundred and fifty
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: thousand over the dragon Wall at least to two hundred,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and the Band of the Red Hand start out as
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: five k, and that was a very small specialized force
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and has now reached like thirty k because of all
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: the recruiting they're doing, and that's still a small force
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: compared to like some of these bigger armies, So you know,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: and just the.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Poop, that's all I Sannitation at the fields of Marillor
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: is what I have questions about.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wait till the bodies start falling. I mean, the
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: fields of mary Lore is going to be a bloody
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: boned ridden place for a very very long time. I
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: doubt anything will grow there after the last battle, but.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Once stuff does grow there, it's gonna be luscious. Those
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: nutrients are Have you seen the trees at like the
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Gettysburg battlefields? Those things are hogging.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: That's morbid.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: It's true. These some big old trees planted where there
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: were mass graves, and they are big, beautiful trees. Clearly
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: have fed very very well. It's yeah, those old trees
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: and cemeteries are on battlefields are well fed. And this
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: is why green burials should be way more common than
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: they Yeah, no, we.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Aren't taking long nytreans out of the carbon cycle.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Well, and the trees are way more awesome to visit
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: than headstones because they just get more epic as time
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: goes by, and they're beautiful and they're alive.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Honestly, they last longer than a headstone. Like you think
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: stone lasts forever, but like stone breaks down real fast.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I love going through old cemeteries. I've lived near a
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: bunch of them in my life, and yeah, headstones weather
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: down quite fast. Anyhow, the Enduring Queen is now also
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the Kyrie and Queen, and that's pretty cool.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: We get sort of a rundown of everybody that's there, right,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: like paren and his force, and Gowin sees more Gee
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: for the first time. Yeah, and I gotta say I
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: thought Agwayne's response was cold as fuck. Her spies had
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: delivered word of the rumor this last night, but she
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: wanted to confirm it before speaking to Gowan. Dude, Like,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: if you have an idea, idea that your husband's mother
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: is alive when he thinks she's been dead, you don't
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: keep that to yourself.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Again, she's the Omerlin institution of the Tower more than
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: she is a human person. She really wants to embody
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: being above humanity with her institutional might. And it's a problem.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: It's a problem. I feel like it's almost the symptom
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: of her youth. She's like, oh, I have to be
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: the amulin, I can't be myself anymore, and like he
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: has to figure out where that balance is, you know.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: That's that that is the one thing where I would
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: say her youth comes into play in terms of like
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: burying her own self in the job. I see that
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: so many i'ms with people right out of college.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it is incredibly believable that someone who's not
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: even into their twenties yet would think that subsuming themselves
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: in their job to that degree is sustainable and desirable.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: That totally tracks with her youth. Yeah. I just wish
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: that Gowan had like been more able to let go
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: of the rand hate once he literally saw more gaze,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Like literally you'd think that that would have helped like
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: finish him breaking out of the loop.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: There should have been some revelation there.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because again, if Agwayne had been helping him, trying
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: to help talk him down out of it, trying to
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: help him realize where the edges of his psychosis are,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: then this could have been an amazing moment of closure
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: of like and with that the spell was finally clicked
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and everything and GWayne had been saying finally settles into
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: place and all of that. But instead yeah, she's just
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, turns out my mother in law
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: is alive, neat, and like moves on like okay, Yeah.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of the weaknesses. And when people
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: say I wanted a reunion scene that I feel like
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't get, even though we see some reunions and
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: we see some like other characters talk to each other.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Is because they don't ever address the issues that they've
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: been dealing with independently. They don't come together and Goma
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: doesn't say I'm sorry, I thought you killed my mother.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: We don't ever have Agwayn and Rand sort of confront
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: each other over the share like, man, we just had
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: to become powerful, and you know that changes us in ways.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: You never have Rand be like, hey, I know you're
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: cool with the wolves, Paren like that's cool, You're my
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: brother anyway. You know. You never have Matt be like hey, like,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I know I was scared of you ran, but you
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: cleanse the source, like I trust you to save the world.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Like none of that emotional work is being done by
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: the characters to have a quote unquote reunion at the end. Right,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I think the best example we get is Niniven Moraine.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Oh that hug that hu just the wordless hug that
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: lasts so long that marine actually returns.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: It, right, right, Like that's the one person who's reflected
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: on something, changed her opinion about the other person and
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: actually acts on it in a way, and like and
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: we see that on screen, right, I feel like so
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: much of that is missing from the other relationships.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: And of course it would that would be one between
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: two women with none of the men. Of course, none
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: of the men can have the one good reunion. The
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: only good reunion is between like the two motherist figures
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: that we've had since one.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Even a GWayne and Marene don't feel like they get
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: a real, you know, cathartic moment. It's like the you're
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: gonna call me mother and she's like, yep, I am.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, I can't even remember what they
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: do when they interact, Like I don't remember the scene.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: So and yeah, that's what it is. Randon Parrien agreeing
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: about the Seals is a nice moment where they have
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: this actual like as technical professional people, we can agree
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: on this that that is a moment, but it's still
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: not reunion. It's more just just like the old days,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: we actually talk to each other in the face of
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: that annoying girl Awayne who's trying to control us.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And that's the best of the boys reunions. But and
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: then you have the Matt parn one where he tries
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: to light throwing that nostalgia. He's in the badger, and
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: that's really bad.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: You don't but you're so you're saying that the one
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: upmanship scene is good. I lost my eye in a
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: fight with a bartender.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I mean it is a setup for a decent punchline,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: which is like, yeah.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I wouldn't have minded it if it had been
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: buried in a larger bettery scene.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind it.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't give it any shade at all.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: It's just so naked on its own. Yes, yes, but yeah,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: for now, Rand shows up long enough to break the
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: clouds over the fields of Marylor Field of Marylor, a
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: singular field, and then we pov switch over to the
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Black Tower because it's not quite time. That will be
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: next book to see what Rand says at the field.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: But he arrives long enough to break the clouds, and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: then we pivot to the Black Tower.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: So you now I want to do like Strawberry Fields
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: forever parody except Strawberry Fields of marri Lore. Do you
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: like bloody Fields of mary Lore instead of Strawberry Fields
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: of mary Lore? That would be a terrible parody song.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Put it on the list. Put it on the list.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: And the Beatles is well enough known you can always
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: get away with like people who can sing along with that,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: right right? Yeah?
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not obscure. Even if I can't draw the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: tune to mind, I'm sure I've heard it before, Like,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I just would need to go be like, wait, which song?
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Oh? That one? Because that's often the problem I have
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: when I try and pick songs, because I'm like, oh,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: this is one of my favorite songs and I think
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: could work really well, and nobody's ever heard of it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: It's a problem. It's a problem. But the Beatles is
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a pretty solid bet.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people have at least heard of them. Whether or
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: not they're gonna enjoy it, they know the song.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: That's not the point enjoying. It's not the point showing
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: up your parody or any skills the point.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: So Androl Androl.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: So we are in a group of Ashamon collectively trying
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: to figure out this gateway thing. Androl and Mr And
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: and others are like, uh, like, it's where we left
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Pivara off essentially right. She tries one gateway and now
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: we're snapping over to the ashaman doing like fourth, fifth,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: sixth tries being like okay, uh Androl the genius at
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: this stuff, can you do it?
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: No, the dreamspike is very effective.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Let me look up these ashamon really quick. So you've
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: got Candler who's been around for a while. He's introduced
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: in a Crown of Swords chapter twenty seven. He worked
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: out the weave de bond his wife Evian. Let me
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: look him up. A Path of Daggers was his first.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: He helped capture the fifty one sisters from the White Tower. Okay,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: and he's pretty young. Tam ends up killing him in
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: the last battle. So these are all, you know, pretty
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: These are various established characters. It seems like, at least
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: mentioned in earlier Wheel of Time books. These aren't made up.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: They're just basically like, we have a list of ashaman
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: to pull from, and he's pulling from them.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. It was like all the names are familiar,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: none of them are new.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: And then Amarn is the guy who's being his dead
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: brother who is channeled by Ashaman. He's faking to be him. Yeah,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: these are all all uh you know Oshaman with at
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: least some backstory.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not made up. They're not fan inserts, they're
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: not one offs. They're all established characters with stories we
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: can look at. Some of them are very short, but
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: they existed in other books, so it's cool.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: And they will be around for most of the story
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: actually is from here on out, because they're part of
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Androl's black power story.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of funny that Andrel is such a
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: self insert, but the entire cast around him is not.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Everyone around him actually has legitimate claim to exist from
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: other books in a way that he's just an empty
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: sock puppet waiting to be filled.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's certainly mentioned in an earlier book, right,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: but not Yeah, but there's no detail about who he
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: is other than I think that he's a weak channeler.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Like I think, literally, of all these guys, he's got
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: like the shortest of the backstories before this book, and
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: then suddenly this book, you know, he gets to take
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: on all that, but he's surrounded by characters that actually
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: have like done.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Stuff, And that's why I think everyone's like, oh man,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: he'd be such a good Logan if Logan had been
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: doing this instead of him. But then you'd have to
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: tell a different stories. You don't have the one who's
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: the guy who's limited, has that gateway power. You know,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Sanderson can't play with the magic.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like how if Stephen King's going to
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: write a book. You've got the cast of the same
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: character archetypes over and over and over again, and it's
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: like Sanderson can't not have his min max magic boy,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: and Logaine already had an established power profile. So yeah,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: it was it's a concession that we all just get
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: to make to Sanderson. It's it's part of the tax
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: we pay forgetting him to write these books.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: And so I mean, not too much of their trying
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: to open a gateway. They're all, you know, trying. We
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: see a slight difference with Androl. He doesn't have a
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: problem opening a gateway. He doesn't have whatever difficulty the
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: spike ramps up, but it's still unravels on him. So
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: everybody's trying to open a gateway and nobody seems to
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: be able to.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even with his incredible skill, the technology is watertight.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Normally reports back that he spoke with Mezzar and he's
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: been you know, there's something wrong with his eyes. That's
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: key where he's been turned.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Right, right, it's not Mesar's literally Mesar. I'm telling you
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: it's not him. It's his body, it's his memories. It
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: is not his soul. His soul is out to lunch.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: The smile is all wrong.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Android goes and confirms it for himself. Pivara
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: has just been seeing it in others, like there is
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: a rapidly spreading wrongness in the Black Tower.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's the groups that are loyal to Low Gain,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: those who have been turned, and then those who are
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there's anybody who's neutral anymore.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they polarized everyone first and then started coming for
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: the holdouts and doing the turning thing. But they didn't
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: let anyone stay neutral. They made sure everyone was polarized
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: into one camp or the other. And all the Eyes
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: to Die are antagonists, so they're not really aligned with
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: either camp, but they're.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Not neutral either, right, And they're also being turned more effectively, and.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: They're being turned. There's two groups of Ice to Die.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: They're being turned and they cannot be looked to as
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: allies or so we think, right, That's kind of the
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: point of this POV is to say, well, the isid
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I clearly can't be allies, or can they?
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: And like they're My understanding is it's easier to turn
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: the iceid eye because it's easier to turn somebody if
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: you have a channeler's of the opposite sex, so you
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: get the thirteen more drawl. And if you have thirteen men,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: it's very easy to turn a woman. But thirteen men
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: have trouble.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that does seem to be the nuance of it.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is why Logan is able to hang on
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: for as long as he does.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Because they don't have the full compliment of women.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: However, I don't understand why they don't just turn all
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: enough women to then use them against Logan.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are there are enough women inside the Black Towers
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: walls to make thirteen? Yeah, there's like twenty six or
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: something like that in that group, I think.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I think, So, I get I get those.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: But it's more than thirteen, is my point.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know why they're going at this piecemeal,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: one at a time. I guess maybe it just takes
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: long enough that they can't do all of them at once. Yeah,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: and it's exhausting. Maybe they like need to sleep, like
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: you can only turn one soul per sleep cycle because
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: it's just that hard.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say it's a plot hole, but it's
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: definitely one of those things where you're like, man, really
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: seems like you could snowball this into converting everybody pretty easily.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: It seems like a tension building device. Yeah, which is fair.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Writers are allowed to do that. It's not truly a
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: plot hole, but I'm gonna just defocus my eyes and
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: move on.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I would be happier if it like burned up all
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the mrdrawl or something to do it.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, you could only turn so many because there's not
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: an infinite supply of merdraw that would be good, and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: merdrall like have to be kind of tricked into it
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: because it's the one way ticket.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Right exactly, Like they're not willing to do it. They
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: have to be commanded, which means you have to have
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: like a forsake in there, like I just yeah, which
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you say Tames the forsaken, but.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: He's still midway through his forsaken interest exam. Right now,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have those resources to call upon yet.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Right, the entrance exam is him converting the Black Tower.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Right, He's not going to get given help from the
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: examiner to do that. That'd be weird.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that he decides to go to the women
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: of the who are trapped there as well as he
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: is for help.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: And he picks the one, is saidie who hasn't been
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: turned yet?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how does he know?
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: And who is open to it? How does he know?
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: He might have somehow picked up on Pavara being the
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: least rabbit and creepy of all of them, But how
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: does he pick the one that hasn't been turned?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I think he's literally just she's the one who opens
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the door.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: No, they all stay in different little huts. Okay, yeah,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: because she says coming quickly. The woman I share this
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: hut with is away.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it doesn't seem like he picks a hut.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like he just walks up to the huts
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: and like picks the first one and knocks on the door.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Taverin Right. I don't think they've ever talked before.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: No, there is a scene where they talk.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Oh they did? They did?
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, he he collects all of
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: the ashaman and their families that are loyal to Logain
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: in one spot worries about what they're gonna do with
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Logain and then says, out of the frying pan into
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: the fire, and let's try not to.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Do that, and goes to the one Isidye that will
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: end up helping him, without knowing if she'll help him,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: but like.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: You know, right, I mean they end up in that
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: double bond situation, which needed one of them anticipated.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he comes to her and she thinks he's
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: a messenger from Taim and then he does the whole
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: like no, you're not the only one who wants to
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: get out, and suddenly we're in conspiracy cloak and dagger time,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: and she, you know, does the iside ageless face thing,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and he's like, wow, I can interpret so much from
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: a lack of emotion to interpret. We're gonna be great friends.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he's kind of taken one for the team.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: He's the one who's going to do the negotiation on
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: behalf of all the ashaman who wants to get out.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I might be wrong about them talking before.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Oh did they not talk before?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Because Androl is introduced in chapter forty six, you know,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: other than like his introduction in a previous book. Ye,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: and then this is the next chapter he's in. And
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I don't believe he talked to her in chapter forty six.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: I think this is my brain just saying, oh, yeah,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: you've read that scene.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, you said it, and I was like, I
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: can imagine it. But also there's that certain shimmery translucence
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: to this memory that makes me wonder if it's just
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: an amalgamate a hallucination memory and yay fact checking.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm definitely thinking of a future encounter.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, so they've never talked before, but let's just assume
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: that he's noticed that she's in a leadership position and
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: reasonable compared to the others. Let's just imagine that he's
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: noticed that and made note of which hut she lives
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: in for some reason or it's random tavere in tevere
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: In such an old excuse. At this point, I'd rather
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: him just be observant.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I think it's more just like he finds somebody and
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: they work together.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Well, he just happens to start with the only person
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: that that was possible with. When he goes to look
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: for allies. He just happens to go to the only
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: person that it was possible to have a positive result with.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, because Pavar is the one who's been
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: thinking about like working with men before and like the
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Red Tower, the Red ad Jah needs to change their.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he doesn't know that unless he's just been
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: observant subtly of her like manner in conversation and it's
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: just like, oh, that seems like the least objectionable.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And the way he talks about he's like, I'm
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: going to find this some allies. He's not like I'm
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: going to find an ally.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to go Pavar is one of the
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: ones in charge of the expedition, so that might also
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: be part of his rationale, is trying to go to
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: the leadership of that group because he wants to find,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: like you said, allies in the plural, so leadership's a
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: good place to start.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: And he talks about this is where the women of
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: the Red Aja were saying, perhaps they'd come here to
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: trying to find a way to gentle the entire lot.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: But if that's the case, then he could at least
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: count on them, not siding with Tayim.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he leaves it so late that there's only
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: one nce to die for him to recruit.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Essentially, he does say, you're not the only one who
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: wants to lead this place. So maybe he noticed she
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: was trying to leave.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he says, so like I hear you're trying to leave.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I hear you want to leave the Black Tower because she.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Did try and go, and so maybe that may so okay,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: So maybe he was specifically going to her because of
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: her attempt to leave that got fouled.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Because it says we'll never get past those guard posts.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Andrew said, Tam won't even let those eyes to die leave.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: You heard the fit that Plump went through at the
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: gates the other day.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Mmmm, that plump one is is Ravara?
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I guess he went to the one who
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: he knew through a fit at the game the other day.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, good catch, good catch.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: And he's like, I know you want to leave for sure?
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: For sure? So yeah, that's what it is is. Because
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: he knows that she actively threw a fit at tall
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: fit whatever that means from an eye to die, That's
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: why he goes to hers because he's positive that that
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: one wants to leave, and he makes the excellent argument
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: that really appeals to Pavar as a person. Once upon
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: a time, men and women work together, and it's like,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: we kind of know that of all all the reds,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: they really have all the eyes to die. Like she's
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: one of the people most likely to hear that message
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and respond. She has kind of thought about that too,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: agree that most eyes to dye haven't much less reds.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: So he makes a really good pitch with that choice
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: of words, because.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Doesn't she believe that the source has been cleansed? So
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: she's like, what are we going to do now? Or
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: is that something she believes later after the bonding of a.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Control Yeah, that's after she doesn't know because she's from
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the White Tower faction. She still doesn't know all the
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: things that have been accepted by the rebels side, but
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: she does believe that dealing with Aushaman should be more
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: hands on than just zapping them from Afar. I guess, yeah,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: why are they here if they don't know that the
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Do they know this source was cleansed? Is that actually
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: what's happening?
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: No, I think they just said we're gonna they need
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: to be controlled and if we're controlling by bonding them
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: because they're going.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: To go insane, right, just because they exist?
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and maybe even just by it because they
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: going to go insane, we need to bomb them so
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: we can control them when they go insane.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Right. But yeah, Pavara, I guess he's not really the
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: best person to go to with this argument. But it works.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: It works, and we'll catch up with more with them
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: in the next book.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I think, well, there's only one more book in which
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: to catch up with them.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: So yes, well, I wasn't sure if we see them
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: in the epilog. I don't think we do. No, and
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: my book just crashed. It's not something I thought i'd
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: say very often.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm not seeing I'm not seeing that in
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the rest of the book.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: And we go, let's go right into the next chapter.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: We got a rabbit for supper with.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: The dice closure to the Tower of Genji Journey.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and a rabbit is, of course the rabbit that
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: he randomly gets with his dagger and proves that he
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: doesn't really need the eye because he's just lucky enough
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: that he can basically fight with luck.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's luck works better when you're not looking anyway.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Exactly all right, I guess I'll read this sin a
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: rabbit for supper. Matt hit uneven ground, Blinded by the
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: flash of light. Cursing, he used the ashen Dar eye
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: to steady himself on the spring earth. He smelled foliage,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: dirt and rotting woods. Insect buzzed in the shade. The
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: whiteness faded, and he found himself standing outside the tower
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: of Genji. He had half expected to reappear in Ruidian.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: It seemed that the spear returned him to this world
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: in the place where he had entered. Tom sat on
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: the ground, propping up Moraine, who was blinking and looking
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: about her. Matt spun on the tower and pointed upward.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I know you're watching, he said, thrilled he had made it.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: He had bloody made it out alive. I beat you,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: you crusty boot leavings. I Matt from Coffin's, revived your traps.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: He raised the Ashendari over his head, and you gave
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: me a way out. Chew on that bitterness for lunch,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: you flaming, burning, misbegotten liars. Matt beams, slamming the spear
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: down butt first onto the ground beside him. He nodded.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Nobody got the better mat Coffin. They had lied to him,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: told him vague prophecies and threatened him, and then they
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: had hanged him. But Matt came out ahead in.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: The end airhorn airhorn.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's a pun or not, but
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: he came out ahead in the end after they hung him.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: But they still got your eyeball, dude.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: They did get your eye. The eye came out of
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: his head.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: It's true. They hung him so hard when of his
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: eyeballs popped out.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is them coming out wet a little
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: bit about how the Ashindar works try to teleport you
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: back to where you came from as opposed to I mean,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: why would it put him in Perudian. I don't know.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I guess because he's leaving the Snake's world and the
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: gateway in Rudian is the one that got him into
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: the snake world. So that's that's my only thought, is
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: that he thought that the position Rudian mattered.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're in the room with the shattered Rudian door,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: or no, with the shattered tier door. They're not in
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the room with the Rudian door. Because the Rudian door
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: was the Melty door.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: You're right, You're right. So yeah, so why would he
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: think they would come out in Rudian.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Probably because that's when Moraine went in or something like that,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: And so maybe they're like in the Moraine's entry point
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: would be where they get out. But yeah, I think
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: it makes more sense that the Ashendar returns them to
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: wherever they entered. I think that makes the most metacosmic sense.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, Moraine asks, you know, who was the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: third Like I know he was there, but who was he?
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: And Matt and Tom are like, well, he was a guy.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: You may have heard of him named by Jane forrest Rider.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: They don't tell her, no, they talk around it. Yeah,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: they're just like he was a great man and you
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: should probably remember him anyway. It's like that so frustrating,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, I guess it's kind of funny to
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: be like, hey, Moraine, you know what we're not going
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: to tell you the information? Has it feel to be
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: on the receiving end of random secrecy now, bitch?
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: It's all they's had such an opportunity to be like,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: oh need to know? Only when you start asking questions.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that's need to know, yeah, or it's just
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: that they're sad that he's dead. Well, yeah, but I
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: like the idea should be like, no, marine, you don't
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: need to know that.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: It's fine.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: And then Matt says one of the funnier Matt mattisms,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: which is that Tom, next time I want to do
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: the negotiating, please hit me over that. I really like
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: that light. It's so dumb, it's so silly, and it's
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: so Matt, just like, yeah, you should probably have Tom
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: restrain you next time you try to take control. But also,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: only the son of Battles is gonna talk his way
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: out of the tower, right.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Right, because it is his luck, right. I mean, that
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: was the whole thing with his wishes in the first place,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: is he didn't make them consciously. He didn't know he
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: was supposed to make wishes. He was just yelling at them,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: and it happened to be the perfect things to get
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: him passageway out.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But also, like we know that at anytime Tom
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: follows Matt into a dangerous situation, Tom is not going
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to be taking over the negotiating. No matter what he
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: says to Matt here, he will always be making sure
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: that Matt is in charge of negotiating, but it's still
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: the funny thing. It's an I am not shouting, I
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: need shouted. I don't want to be in charge of negotiating,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: says the lucky bastard.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Right right, who always negotiates exactly what he needs exactly.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: A little bit of sort of reflecting on Moraine can.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I wish we had more of Moraine actually doing things
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: rather than Matt thinking about Moraine doing things, if that
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: makes sense. I miss Moraine and I don't feel like
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: she really gets her dose in this last.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Book, this last chapter of the second to last book.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Both yeah, but sort of like from here on out,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: in this last you know, chunk of the series, Like
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I really wanted more from Moraine, and I get that.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Like she's the adult who has left and she's not
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: there to do the rescue and everything, but you know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: she's supposed to save the world. And she does two
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: things that are very important. Right, She's at the Field
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: de Mary Lore for the negotiation, and she is one
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: of two women supporting the use of calendor in the
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: last battle. Right, both of those you need her for.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: But they both feel at least the second one could
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: be any I said, eye.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't mind her being really passive and chill
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: here because she just woke up from a really intense experience.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: But that it doesn't It's like with Gowan, right, what
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: he does here isn't the problem. It's the fact that
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: what he does later is foreshadowed by what's happening here,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: So it's a problem, right, And yeah, it's like and
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: he even says here, you know, like she looked more
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: like a woman than Matt remembered and his memories. She
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: was like a statue, right that it feels to be
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: very much like Sanderson's sake. Oh, I have to write
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: her like a person. She's always been gandolf and now
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: I have to like get into her head and write her.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, if you want to like ease
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: into it and have her be really chill and barely
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: awake for this section, all right, okay.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: And the number of times Matt says, hey, I miss
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: the relationship between you two is because Sanderson missed that relationship.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yeah, one hundred percent. Like there's no way
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: he's not like, oh yeah, I think he got that
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: book was like, oh yeah, Moraine and Tom get together.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: And he's like, what, I never noticed that because it
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: is so subtle.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like this slime where she's like, you know, Moraine
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: grimaces and' like had Morienne grimace before? She had? She
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: been too high and mighty for that or was we
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: just remembering her wrong?
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: No, she grimaced all the time.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she totally grimaced. Like if you go back and
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: read the books again, like you'll see she expresses so
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: much emotion. But yeah, Matt totally missed it the way
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: that a lot of us first time readers missed it
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: when we were younger, and like the way Sanderson missed
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: it when he was a first time reader and younger.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And Moraine he was talking to flaming Moraine. He could
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: be I was Moraine. He's writing Flaming Moraine, right, like, yeah.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. It's it's like talking to Brigitta or Jane
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: farstwriter and what a world it was, and what a
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: strange place he had in it, What a world where
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I got into writing because I loved these books as
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: a kid, and now I'm finishing them. Holy crap, right right?
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: That feels like a very self insert Sanderson moment there.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, which I think is appropriate for the
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: first scene with Moraine actually in it as a wake
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: talking character, Like to just sort of sit there in
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: awe and blink stupidly at her is an appropriate reaction.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he never takes her down off the pedestal
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: is my problem. He puts her up on there in
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: this first scene and then she just remains this emotionless
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: statue that he doesn't write well for the rest of
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: the book.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Is this just like with Gotwin,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Like this is fine if something else happens after, then
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: this makes sense. But because of what happens after this
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: is like ugh the SI.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: No, And I will say I see Tom's like of Moraine,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: that he's resisting because he is very anti Isidi right,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: because of his history. I don't necessarily see Moraine's attraction
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: to Tom, but because of who she is, I completely
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: understand that she was hiding it more sure.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in character for us to not see what
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: she sees in him. Yes, even though it is frustrating
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: that she can't get with her wife from when she
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: was in college and they said both have to end
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: up with men that look twice their age, Because I said,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: die age slowly, right, a little weird, a little uncomfortable,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: but it is in character for her to be the
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: most subtle in her attraction.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, No, as Woogie says, she's I said,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I and Kyrie Annon, which is like both people who
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: have you know, the game of houses is deep in
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: their bones.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: The least screwed to person ever.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Right, And the fact that Tom reads it and sees
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: it is I think almost what makes her attracted to him.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah's a what's like the fancy word for spy to say,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: like spy sexual, you know, like saved sexual, attracted to intelligence.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: She's like attracted to like the cloak and dagger spy thing.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Hmm, sneak sexual, sloth sexual.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Sloth sexual. Okay, there we go.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Or maybe she just really likes men that kill the
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Kyrie and King, given that she, you know, is in
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: the Kyrine and Royal family and they all hate the King.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe she's just like, oh, you keep killing Kyrian and King.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Some down, especially when they're related to me.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Particularly, so, we get some information from Rain about basically
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: her time in the Finland. Right, she was held prisoner.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: They were draining her of the power. They're feeding off
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: both her emotion and the power that was draining out
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: of her, and the emotion of her loss and all
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And we get this line. A
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: man was there once when they woke me, he said,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I was not the one he wanted. That man is,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: of course Morden, who went there to kill land Feir.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Right and right before that is the line they claimed
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: to have killed Landfeir by draining her too quickly, and
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: she thinks that that was just a ruse, you know,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: to make her more afraid, which absolutely, because yeah, we
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: more done, absolutely came and got land Fear, and Landfeir
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: did die right, Like the Finn could totally use eyes
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: to dye language. It's like, oh, yeah, we killed her
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: by by letting her be killed by someone else.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, but yeah he killed her. He
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: didn't come get her. He killed her so that the
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: dark One could get her soul, yeah, and put it
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: in a new body.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: It's a killing messenger.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I interested, And you know, I think that's
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: a fun like how did he get there, how did
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: he get back? What did he wish? What sort of
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: deal did he make? Like how did Mordn? I think
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: that's an interesting story. How did he get into the
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: land of the fin and how did he get out?
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Did he make a deal, did he go to the
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: room of bargains? How is he you know, capable of
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: getting in and out? Does he have a key? Does
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: does he have another Ashindrie type situation? Right? Like what's
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: his this is? This is one of those things where
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I actually kind of like that we don't find out.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: It's like his knowledge of the Age of Legends lets
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: him do this thing.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I bet actually the Finn did kill
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Land for you by draining her as part of the bargain.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: They might have actually been telling the truth that like
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: when he came in and was like, okay, I want her,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I want her dad, I don't care. And part of
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: the price was like, oh yeah, I know, you can
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: totally kill her by draining her, Like you don't have
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: to take anything. You can you can take your price
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: from her. That's fine, I don't care. I just want
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: her soul loose. That's it. Amy always curious to about,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: like how you can reduce someone's capacity to channel as
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: like a draining thing. Like I kind of again like that,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: we don't get that explained, like that the the metaphysics
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: of what's going on in the Finland and in the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: dream are like, still only have we ever scratched the
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: surface in all the cosmology that we've gotten. I like
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: that implication that there's more than we could ever know
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: going on outside the normal world.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm fine with the metaphysics of the fin draining
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: your ability to channel. Like whether whether or not it
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: makes sense within the context of the magic system, I
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: feel like it does because it's he layers different levels
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: of magic, and the fin layer of magic is definitely
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: like Genie level magic on top of our real world.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Right right, right, totally, and it's awesome. It's awesome.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: And so they break the rules by definition, right, the
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: geometry breaks the rules there. They exist in this sort
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: of higher dimension, right because they can see through time
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: kind of like if the wheel is weaving out a pattern.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I feel like they almost like can see They're like
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: living above the loom and can see the pattern as
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: it comes off the loom.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Totally totally. So yeah, Next we have Moraine offering to
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: heal Matt of the immediacy of his wound. You know,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: can't restore the eyeball, but can I get you know,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: make it not give him an infection that we'll get
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: up into his brain.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Close the open wound that's at the back of your
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: eye socket because there's they rip the nerve right.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, make a nice healed surface. Yeah, it's like
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: oozing goose.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Still, right, because there's like muscles. I don't really know
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: all that's involved of losing an eye. I know, like
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: when it's surgery, it's still kind of the stuff in there, right,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: They like put something in your eye socket to prevent
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: your eyes a hole from collapsing, and like they do
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: a bunch of other work when they remove your eye.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: It's not just ripped out, right, And it's just ripped out,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: and he's like it'll heal, It's fine. It's like dude,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah, And.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: I'm like, at least allow her to like, yeah, heal
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: up the skin and close off all of the like
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: raw opening to the inside of your skull. Like, come on,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: this is not a scar to be proud of. This
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: is like potentially going to give you an infection that
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: kills you like two hours after it hits critical mass.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: And I don't believe he ever gets healed from this,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: am I Right, No.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: He just goes on his merry way, because fantasy.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Rules, it's just a flesh wound.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: He just wraps a bandage around the outside and everything's
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: fine forever. The fin definitely didn't have bacteria under those
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: nasty long nails. Well, yes, pants, it's a scar to
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: be proud of, but it's not the kind of scar
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: you can like show off. It's it's your eye Like, oh, yeah,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't get healed, so I got this cool bat
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: of scar on my bicep. Like, no, get healed. You
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: still have a missing.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Eye there, right, Yeah, the scar is done.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're never gonna look the same, but you could
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: have a more or less mangled area over there.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like getting an arm cut off, right,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Like they're gonna heal, they should get healed, but you're
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: not getting the arm back.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah he's gonna wear an eye patch blah
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: blah blah. But like I just I'm like, dude, this
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: is a ridiculous sort of pain and risk of permanent
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: infection and scarring and issues to like just shrug off
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: because they don't the power. Like, it's not a hangnail.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: A fox put his fingernails into your eye socket. You
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: need antibiotics, and.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I guarantee he didn't wash his hands before he did it.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: He's a fox.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Those things are disgusting. I mean it's an animal.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: They do stink.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but like I just come on, come on.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: We talk about Moraine's three demands. She knows from previous events.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: We know that was her going into the wise One's
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: three ring tearanreal that she would not escape that.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: The future visions gave her clues about how that land
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: fear on the docks and being in the Finland and
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: all of that. The rings gave her the clues she
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: needed to make some very very dicey gambles.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: And then Matt says, what did you ask for beyond
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: the angre all? So we know one wish was the
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: onre all, which not to just to get it right,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: because they have it before they go through the gateway.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they grabbed it up off of the wagon seat.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: She put it there too, tempt land Fear to stand
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: up there so she could body check her through the thing.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: It was found in Rudian And yeah, she asked for it.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing just because she figured if she got rescued,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: she'd be going into the last battle with rand and
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: would need every scrap of stuff that she could. And
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: what it's also a good way to keep it out
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: of Landfeir's hands.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: That's what I was saying, is I bet it was
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: to get it away from Landfeer, because I bet Landfeir
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: had it after they went through the gateway.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: That's a good call. It was actually immediately defensive, like no, no, no, no, no,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: that bitch can't have it mine.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: But we never find out about the other two.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not a clue, not a hint, not a scrap
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: of anything.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: I shall keep that to myself for now, forever, forever,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: because that's all we see.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it doesn't sound like she made a demand
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: to stay alive, where there's no indication she says, you know,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: she wished sometimes that they would drain her more quickly
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: so that they would kill her. But there's no indication
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: that they kept her alive at her request. They just
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: kept her alive because they wanted more squeeze, more juice
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: from the squeeze. But she came in with prophecies that
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: we had since book one. She would and I'm responding
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: to athlon that she came in with some useful prophecies,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: But everything she quoted was stuff that we all knew
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: from book one. That's why it works is because everyone
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: already knows it. She knew them already, but she applied
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: them differently. I mean, it would make sense that one
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: of her questions would be about the Dragon's piece, but
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: she wasn't getting questions.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: She was questions.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so like, what kind of boone could what kind
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: of boons could she possibly have asked for that are
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: relevant to the last battle, like to be believed by
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Rand That sounds like a tricky thing to ask.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: And what did land for your bargain for? She had
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: three wishes?
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Also, what did land for your bargain for? Maybe it's
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: a quiet life after the last house, I mean valid.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe she wanted a husband order I don't know.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Maybe she got other useful magic items, maybe one of
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: her estates and Kyrie and will be held in perpetuity
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: for her.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everything I'm finding about it is speculation. Back in
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: book five, nobody's like, oh yeah.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: It's Moraine Secrets Forever.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And looks like basically when people have asked Sanderson, He's like, oh, yeah,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: I totally know what they are. But then like there's
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: never any follow up and then when they asked Team
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Jordan like, yeah, we don't know.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe she asked for anonymity, for that's the real reason
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: why the body swapped happened. No, I that's sometimes it's
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: good to leave some mystery.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: And everyone's being like, what are her three questions? And
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: it's like, no, they didn't, she didn't requests their request. Well,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: and I guess she did go through the gateway. She did,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: and did ask get to ask three questions. So that's
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: also a separate She's gone through both gateways, and I
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: guess the only person I went through both was Matt.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we know of among this cast of people right.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: In the modern era, because we know no one is
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: you know, it's been many, many centuries since anyone actually
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: went through.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, presumably, once upon a time in the Age of Legends,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: people were popping through both on a more regular basis.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: But there was a gap right once once the gateway
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: was lost and one was lost in Ridian and the
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: other one was like stored in the Stone of Tear,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: and so for three hundred years it was.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: In Mayn for a long time, and then yeah, it
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: was used once per Rain, at least the first of
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: mayn right, they were able to go through as like
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: part of their rulership was to go through and get
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: guidance on how to rule man.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: You know, I thought that they actually would send people
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: through to get guidance, that they used it to guide
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: their country. They didn't just go through once, but they
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: would actually like have retainers and be like I need
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: answers about this treaty. You go through and ask and
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: like it was like a constant stream of people.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Oh. I never got that impression, huh, I had no
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Dad did not get that impression. But either way, we
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: know that in may In it was used up until yeah,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: three four hundred years prior to the present day, so
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: that those zeal Fin were only slightly hungry, whereas the
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Rudian ones were like starving because it had been so
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: long since Ruidian had stopped being populated by people who
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: wanted their boons.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: That is the question. Is there any overlap, because there
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: is through the Tower of Genjai, But.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: I think people who go through the tower are way
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: more likely to die because they don't have the protections.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: That's just much more like a free hunting door as
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: far as the finner concerned.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: That's just you're in the Finland world and they get
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: fucked with you however they want versus going through the gateway.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Those were made with bargain in place, right right, Yeah,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I mean I said I studied it in Man as well,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: so they were probably going in and out of it
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: as well. That's how they know information about it. Yeah,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: it was owned by the First Man, who used its
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: answers to help remain independent from tier being a lot
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: of detail about exactly how it was used, just that
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: they used it.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when I said the monarchs of the First of
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Man used I send that imant literally the first of
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: mayn and so it was a part of your you know,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: first five years on the throne, you like, use that
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: one card. But that might have just been me assuming
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: because that felt more fantasy appropriate and less practical in
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: op because yeah, obviously you could just send retainers through.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Why not.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like everyone can go through once, but like yah,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: if you have servants who will do that for you,
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: or people who are loyal to you, you can send
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: them through with questions and the IAID I could go
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: through it all the time, Like, yeah, I don't know.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I definitely an assumption on both our parts about how
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: it's being used because it's not spelled out.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: On page Yeah, are we nerds? I think we might
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: be nerds. So Matt considers that maybe Marine's the real
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: hero here because she knew what was going to happen
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: to her before she pops through. Again, I'm like, being
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: a hero, isn't pie? You and Nola and Marine can
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: all be heroes. It's fine. And then she says she
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: needs to go get to Rand, and can I please
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: have an update real quick? Can we just speed run
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: what's been going on with Rand? Because I haven't been
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: here since book five and I'm pretty sure he's gone
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: through some shit.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in about a year, I think, is what we
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: figured out.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she's like, can you speed run me on
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: how Rand is doing? I trust he has done well
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: in my absence, because that's what she said in the
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: letter is you will do well. And Matt says, ah,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: he's kind of full of crap and doing stupid stuff,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: but also he's done everything that he needs to do.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: He cleanse the tank, he's got every one point to
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: the glass battle. But like you know, it's a very
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: sibling like thing, like, well, yeah, he's he graduated college
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: with honors, but he still stinks because he's my brother.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: It's a very brotherly kind of report. And then yeah,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: that Elaine is queen. He's just speed running her on
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: the most important things of the people. And then we
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: get and then we get the really really funny where
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Tom says, Matt's been too busy to keep track of
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: the other forsaken. He's been spending his time marrying the
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Empress of the shan Chin. You did what it was
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: an accident, you accidentally marry the jon Chat Empress. They've
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: got some odd customs tavern. It's I love that interaction.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: That to me is like some good recap, exposition, reunion
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: energy all bundled into one, like Moraine is genuinely surprised
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: he accidentally married the shah Chats. It's very cute. I
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: enjoyed that part.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: That is very good. Yeah, I thought I thought they
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: did a good job of the humor between those two
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: and the it's a good weekad, and then the marriage
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: between Tom and Moraine, where she's like, here's Tom, will
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: you marry me? And he's like yeah, yeah.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: They go from promised to fully engage. They still need
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: a lord to perform the ceremony. You can feel them
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: both looking at Matt like, hey, so you're like official
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: and shit, and Matt's like, no, I am not marrying
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: my mom and my dad. That's weird.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: And he's not exactly the kind of person who should
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: be doing the marrying.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: I mean to judge my parents' performance. The boys need
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: to go to marriage officiating one oh one.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Next time, we'll do it better.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Said uh, and Maureen, you know, does the very sweet
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: thing of like this terranngril will make me more powerful
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: than ever before. But if you don't like powerful women,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: then I'm willing to diminish myself, which is like kind
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: of a sweet gesture. And also like what what if
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: you don't like powerful women, I'll make myself small so
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: I can write that not.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: My favorite, not my favorite.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: But I do appreciate, from an eye to die perspective,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: the idea of her actually being humble enough to like
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: allow her warders preferences to matter. So mixed bag for
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: me on that one. Yeah, And then when Matt's are
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: expressing his confusion that Marianne goes, I can see why
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: the Shaun Chin woman just had to have You certainly
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: have a mind for romance. I don't recall brain being
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: sarcastic before, but I'm here for it anyway.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: It was definitely a little bit of picking fun at
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: the boys, whereas before she's like, Okay, I have to
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: be not loyal, but I have to like serious.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: I think she had to always be serious, and now
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: she can see that they've leveled up past her, she
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: can afford to relax just a bit. Not relax on
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: the whole last battle thing, but relax on the being
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: the stoic adultiest adult in the room. Yeah, she can
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: be the funny aunt. Now. She'll still throw down, but
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: she can be the funny aunt instead of literally yeah Gandalf.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Not that Gandalf's not funny obviously. Also, yes, surviving a
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: deathly situation and coming at the other side does make
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: a person less serious and a lot more casual and
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: fun loving. As a rule, people who were super super
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: serious and then get out of a deadly situation are like,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: you know what, that's not such a big deal. It's fine.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: It looks like this is just one timeline. But Moraine
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: goes missing in September of ninety nine, okay, and we
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: are like June of one thousand, so ah.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: That's nine months, not even a year.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: September October November. Yeah, not even September October, November December.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: Jannuy Firy, Mar Shapel May. Yeah, nine months, ten months,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: so she was in the Finland for pregnancy, basically.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Three trimesters of finn But that that sort of tells
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: you just how compre again, I've said this a million times,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: but how compressed these later books are.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Is that from the end of Fires of Heaven to
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: where we are in the current moment is nine months.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: That's wild, truly.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Considering the Great Hunt is more than is a year
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: and three months one book.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Right, And then so there is this sort of like, yeah,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: the timeline gets very weird. The timeline gets very weird.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Moraine essentially says, hey, Tom, we should hit
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: the road after the last battle. We should just like
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: tour around in an RV busking at county fairs.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: That'll be fun, which is what both of the men
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: have been doing for the last twenty years. Anyway, she's
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: been going around looking for Rand. He's been playing, you know,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Gleaman from Courtbard. How long ago was did he get exiled?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: That was back when.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: Fifteen years ago because Elaine was a little girl.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was after the Idell War.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so he's yeah, he's been bumming around for
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: not quite as long as Moraine has on the road,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: but still, I mean he's been doing that for a
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: decade plus.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they both have a decade of just traveling,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: but decades of traveling on the road.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're both like, you know what, we really can
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: live out of a backpack. You want to live out
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: of a backpack, Let's live out of a backpack. No,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be great. He's gonna be playing his flute,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: She'll be juggling fireballs. It's going to be like just
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: the best little duo you've ever seen at like the
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: ren Fair. It's gonna be awesome.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: And then I love how he's like, ah, and no
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: one's gonna bond me. And then Tom's like, oh, couldn't
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Tuon learn to channel if she wanted to? Since she can?
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like yeah, just like an option, And he's like
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: I don't have to worry about that, do I.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: And that's one of those outwriger things that we never
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: really get to find out, like what how does Tuon
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: react to being able to channel? Does she eventually learn
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: is the idea of living for much much longer being
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: the you know, empress for a long time.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Tempting is having a prince of the Ravens who's also
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: a bodyguard. Tempting, right, Like, there's a lot that could
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: be thrown at her to make the conversation really complicated,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: and to make Matt's reactions to it complicated, and to
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: make a whole nother fourteen books. But alas, yeah, what
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: will happen first Matt accepting healing or two one accepting
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: learning how to channel or hell freezing over which one
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: will come first?
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: In a lot of ways, That's why they are a
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: good match, right, because they are both sort of anti channeling,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: even though they both use it right. She uses it
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: through Demani, he uses it through having like channelers fight
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: for him, but neither one wants channeling used on them.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Neither one wants to be a channeler. And also like
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: his wish to be free of I said, I man,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: did they interpret that in a way that made him
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: not you know, basically embroiled him more because his ability
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: to be free from the one power let him interact
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: with them way more in a way safer manner.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically, so Yeah, Matt wanders away from the lovebirds
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: who are just you know, doing love bird things.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: After repeatedly saying, how did I miss this? Okay Sanderson, Yeah.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: Then he walks off to make a small care and
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: for nol and kind of like think and give us
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: one last deep breath of reflection before we close out
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: the book.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: And it's another testing of his luck, right, this is
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: the whole Like, what am I going to do now? Well?
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: He this is his first moment of acknowledging the anxiety
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: of losing an eye. Right, He's been go, go, go, go, go,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: go go, And now he can actually sit down and
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: think about, Oh, I'm missing an eye.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: That's gonna affect my fighting. That's gonna affect yeah, all
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: sorts of things.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like my depth perception is off. Every motion that
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: I make is gonna have to be recalibrated. What's too
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: on gonna think? Am I gonna die in battle?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: He hasn't had a chance to think about that until now,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: And he does just long enough to realize that his
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: luck is gonna be stronger than ever, because luck works
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: better if you aren't looking anyway, And he's able to
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: find a pot to make tea for Morain because they
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: don't have a pop to make tea for Morain. And
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: he just hits a rabbit with his knife thrown randomly
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: and he's like, nah, I got I still get it.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: I still get it. I'm odin. It's gonna be fine.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: And with that we close the book and all we
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: have left to get to next week is the epilogue.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: But I do love that, like throwing the knife over,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: hitting the rabbit, finding the pot, that's to vere right.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: We were kind of speculating about, like, oh, is what's
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: the tavereness with Gowin and the lane and andral and
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: you know, but it's like with Matt, that's explicitly that
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: is Taverin right, him finding the pot, which I mean,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: I guess tea from Moraine is super tevere and important,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: but I mean they need supplies, they have nothing, They
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: let their backs.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: He wanted it is the point.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I missed that that he can make things
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: manifest just by wanting them and being lucky.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Tom wants to make Moraines some tea and
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: get some tea into her, and he, like you al,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: wants to boil water in his hands and you know,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: they get the fire going, but there's no pot. So
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: it's not that they need tea. It's that Matt is like, oh,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: if I want something, it'll it'll just be there. I
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: want a pot and I want to rabit to put
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: in the pot. Weill Actually he wants, you know, to
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: put tea in the pot.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: But you know, water in the pot, Tea in the water,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: wrap it in every pot, right, Tea and moraine, that.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: Sort of thing, because hot tea is you know, good
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: gossips basically a food group.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Oh what, Yeah, I mean I love that the is
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: said eye subsist on tea because that has such a
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: double meaning for the way they like deal with both
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: information and the drink. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: all I got.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: You'd want to give us a readout on that, because
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: that was it's a good read. I mean, it's not
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: the end of the book, but it's kind of the
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: end of the book. You know, we sill of the epilogue,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: but like this is the resounding concluding paragraph.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: Energy one eye lost. What would that do to his
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: ability to fight? That worried him more than anything. He'd
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: put on a brave front, but inside he trembled. What
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: would Tuon think of a husband missing an eye, a
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: husband who might not be able to defend himself. He
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: pulled out a knife, flipped it, then, on a whim,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: he tossed it behind him without looking. Moraine got stabbed? No,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: then here's He heard a soft screech, then turned to
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: see a rabbit slumped to the ground, speared by the
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: idle thrown knife. He smiled, then turned back to the river.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: There he noticed something caught between two large river stones
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: along the shore. It was an overturned cooking pot with
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: a copper bottom, barely used, only dinged on the sides
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: a couple of times. It must have been dropped by
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: a traveler walking up the river. Yes, he might not
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: be able to judge distance, and he might not be
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: able to see as well, But luck worked better when
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: you weren't not looking anyway, he smiled. Wider than fetch
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: the rabbit, he would skin that for supper and pluck
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: the pot out of the river. Rain would get her
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: tea after all, Yeah, Moraine would get her tea after all.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: Is a great way to end the book. Yeah, Yeah,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: that's a good line.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: It's one of the most important things one of the
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: most singular things, one of the most primary things we
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: ever learned about her tea, And that's how we're going
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: to end this book, in which we have finally retrieved
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: her after books of teasing the concept she's actually rescued.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Loraine lives. Yeah, I mean even from the very beginning,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: right the note, the note she gave rand teas that
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: she would be returning.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: If you were really hopeful. Yes, like I mean, that's
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: such a slow burn. Oh my god, such a slow burn.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: And join us next week for some well, lots of pobs.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: We got Grendall, we got paren Oliver, we get to
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: see the red veiled I yeel a little bit of
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Rand Alph Thor. Yeah, this is some lamb a lot,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: there's a lot. There's a lot packed into that one chapter.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: So get ready for a fun epilog and then the
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: final book. I gotta say similar every chapter, many many,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: many povs. It's going to be an interesting way of
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: going through it. I'm curious to see how we handle
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: it because I don't know yet how it's going to go,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And as a reminder, of course, we're going to
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: do our tangents episode between books, and then we're going
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: to do the very unusual step of really tangenting over
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: to New Spring. Yes, before we get to Memory of Light.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: So just keep in mind that Memory of Light is
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: still more of a late summer, early fall adventure. It's
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: we're going to tangent off to New Spring first.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: We need a Jordan refresher before we finish out the series.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the summer recording schedule is going to be
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: a little wonky. Will keep you all updates as it
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: comes closer, but just so you know, summer will be
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: less of your normally scheduled programming between New Spring and
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: travel breaks and whatnot. But Memory of Light will be
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: coming August September, I think is when we're going to
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: be returning to act we tackle that. So if you
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: have thoughts on how you want us to handle the
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: last book, now is a good time to bring those
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: thoughts to the discord and give us your ideas so
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: that we can try to navigate this.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: I'm actively chunking up the chapters into episodes and sort
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: of writing my summaries and trying to figure out a
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: schedule for the final book. So New Spring's going to
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: be interesting because we are doing We're attempting five chapters
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: per episode in New Spring, so we're attempting to do
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: five episodes for the whole book because there's twenty five
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: chapters in an epilog. I think it's going to work
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: because the chapters are a little bit shorter. They're all
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: single POV except for one there's one that's three POV's,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: but all the other chapters are single POV chapters. Most
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: of them are simpler than main body wheel time chapters.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: So I think doing four to five they may be
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: slightly long episodes, but I think it's it's going to
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: be a good way to knock that out in about
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: a month.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And Over on Dungeon Carler Carl, of course, we
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: are currently finishing up with book two publishing. We're still
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: only halfway book through, but recording wise, we're finishing book
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: two today. So that continues to be a very fun
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: source of consistent entertainment over there, even as we have
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: book transitions and whatnots Over here, Dungeon Carlo Carl is
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: chugging away on its own trajectory, which is just.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: A lot of fun. If you want to come join
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: us over there, I'm having a blast.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts, but we have to take
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: a break between recordings before I can give you all
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: of those thoughts. So with that, I will close this
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: episode out by reminding everyone to please come over to
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: the Patreon. We do appreciate it and have a nice day.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: Hydrate where Sunscreen? Oh got I listened to that song again,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: that sunscreen song?
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: Sunscreens? Oh No, okay, I'm turning recording off.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: I'm turning it out if you're recording off.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:10:51
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• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:10:58
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• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: at Foxndravenmedia dot com.