Latest / The Legal Canvas / Art, Auctions, and Advocacy: A Conversation with Bonnie Brennan
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- Art, Auctions, and Advocacy: A Conversation with Bonnie Brennan === Welcome and Guest Intro --- Caryn Keppler: Welcome to the launch of The Legal Canvas, where we explore the intersection of law and the creative arts. I'm your host, Caryn Keppler, a trust and estates attorney with Offit Kurman, where my practice includes estate planning and administration with an emphasis on makers and collectors of all types of creative pursuits, including visual, performing, literary, applied, and digital art. Today, I'm honored to be joined by Bonnie Brennan, the Chief Executive Officer of Christie's. We'll be discussing Bonnie's rise in the ranks to the top of the auction world, as well as her forecast for changes in the art market, both for artists and collectors. Bonnie, welcome to The Legal Canvas. Bonnie Brennan: Thank you for having me, Caryn. Caryn Keppler: You're welcome. Bonnie’s Career Journey --- Caryn Keppler: You are only the second woman to run Christie's. Tell me about your journey. Bonnie Brennan: I've been at Christie's for, since 2012, and I feel so lucky to be surrounded not only by so many strong, passionate, powerful, interesting really wonderful scholars and experts and colleagues across the whole business who are women, but also to be supported and encouraged by such a strong community of male colleagues as well. I think we are very blessed to be in an industry where we are striving to be more gender blind, really focusing on a meritocracy where it's about your strengths and what you can bring to strengthen the organization. I am the first female American CEO and the first time the CEO's really has sat in New York permanently. So I obviously travel quite a bit to our various sale hubs around the world. I just got back from Hong Kong and London. But I feel like we are supported equally by men and women within this great organization. Caryn Keppler: What moment made you realize that this would be your career? Bonnie Brennan: I've always been-- I'm an artist myself not a particularly, not one that will ever be sold at Christie's. But something, it's been a passion of mine since I was a young child. I remember a very epic sale of Van Gogh's Irises when I was a young child driving to school with my father, hearing about that extraordinary auction price. And so just the idea of the auction world was planted early, but not something that I really thought would allow me to be an independent person living in the city where I wasn't raised. So I pursued another career in the advertising business. But I will say the moment, I think the question you asked me is one that came later, when did I understand this would be a career? And that's when I almost went to business school in the turn of, in 2001, and I decided to stay. And that's, I think, the inflection point where I realized sort of the power and pull of my job and this industry was so strong, and it was the first time I really had that moment of understanding this is the place you really wanna be. Joining Christie’s --- Caryn Keppler: And what drew you to Christie's in particular? Bonnie Brennan: I moved to Christie's in 2012. I've been pretty open about my journey in the auction business, and I was at Sotheby's for 15 years. It was fantastic. I was hired by a wonderful woman in 1997 who chance on a person from a different industry. I had a great journey, learned so much, and, in 2012 when the opportunity came I had already left Sotheby's. When the call came from another friend and person you know well Tash Perron, to meet with people at Christie's, I was delighted to consider that because, as I said, even 14 years earlier, really understanding the genuine pull of this industry for me was real. And so the opportunity to be part of the Christie's team was so interesting to me, and it's been really one of the, it's been the best part of my professional career is being here. CEO Priorities and Growth --- Caryn Keppler: Have you instituted any changes or new initiatives at Christie's since, you were appointed as CEO? Bonnie Brennan: I became CEO in February of '25. It was a pretty smooth transition from our past CEO, Guillaume Flerie, who led us with such strength for eight years, and also set us on the path for growth much of which we are still really pushing forward. Things like the integration of Gooding car auctions the expansion in the Middle East. I think in terms of we're building on those, and we wanna keep those growing. I think my goals have been on really expanding access to new clients, to younger buyers, how do we do that? How do we make sure that we're offering things through our digital and online platforms that make them feel like Christie's is relevant? Strengthening that global reach, not just in the Middle East, but really looking at new markets. We've seen even in our New York sale room, the incredible demand for works from the APAC region, the strength of the Bangkok market, the Indian and Southeast Asian markets. Those are areas of real excitement for me because it is gonna put us in touch with buyers who are newer to Christie's. And then all the while really reinforcing the trust in Christie's expertise. When I hear what differentiates Christie's, it comes back to that. It comes back to that commitment to what people understand what our values, but also our real strengths are, and I wanna make sure we never deviate from that core value proposition for clients. Digital Access and New Buyers --- Caryn Keppler: How have you improved access for those communities? Bonnie Brennan: I think in a lot of ways, it's in how we present things. It's digital, our online sales, we know, Caryn, the younger generation is so digitally native. They want a frictionless experience. They wanna be able to look at things on their phone, hang works on their walls, spin sculpture around and see it up close, zoom in. They also want material that's relevant to them, and as we look to younger generations, that oftentimes looks different, and we've seen luxury, for example, be a great entry point to get to know younger buyers. They come in, they look at handbags, they look at watches. We see that well beyond the auction market. Making those relationships, and then beyond the established auction categories, where can we celebrate unique and different objects? We just had an amazing sale for Jim Irsay's collection, a NFL team owner who was passionate about pop culture. We had a 20-minute bidding war for a guitar. We had a collection that raised $94 million for collectibles, for guitars, for, the golden ticket from Willy Wonka, for Muhammad Ali's championship belt. Very different objects, but things that are resonating and speaking to new and younger audiences. So it's not just how we sell, but what we present that is gonna keep us in the dialogue with the shoppers and collectors of the next generation Wealth Transfer Meets Art --- Caryn Keppler: Let's talk about the current generation at this point. There's been a lot of talk in the estate planning world about what we call the Great American Wealth Transfer. There will be an unprecedented multi-decade shift of approximately 84 to $124 trillion in assets from baby boomers and the silent generation to younger generations. And it's projected through the next 20 years or so. A substantial portion of that wealth is held in high-value assets, including art collections. How has that affected the art market? Bonnie Brennan: I think it's certainly something that we talk about a lot. I think that the Great American Wealth Transfer that we refer to has really reinforced art's position, not only as a cultural asset, but a financial one particularly among those high net worth families where we see a lot of intergenerational transition. Tangible assets and sort of their value in terms of the family legacy are getting much, much more attention, and that, Caryn, in practices like yours, in the banks that have art advisory services. The great independent art advisors who are out there to really walk people through because it is such a great place to store that wealth. It's wealth preservation rather than just art. Sometimes people historically have looked at art as speculative growth. I think there's a much better understanding of how art is a great preservation of wealth, long-term store of value, and it's a way to diversify within family portfolios. I think what we're gonna see is different behavior among the generations, that sort of intergenerational stewardship, and how that's different between, say, a Gen X-er, maybe a Gen Z. We're gonna see a lot more transfer even laterally to spouses. I think there's gonna be a larger role for women's voice as more and more of these collections are transferred, say, to the spouse instead of just downward to the children. But I think we also see already some people want to just refine, to retain and refine what they are receiving in that wealth transfer. Others want to completely change focus and rebuild, and I think that's where we have a responsibility to do both, to serve both very well. Next Gen Collecting Trends --- Caryn Keppler: What changes in behaviors are you seeing? Bonnie Brennan: I think the great things actually. Nothing, when we talk about change, sometimes it's moving away from, moving from good to bad, and that's not the case at all. I think we see a wider lens of the type of art that people are looking at. And what we've done to try to be responsive to that is make sure that we're offering those works. Several years ago we started our 21st Century art platform, which really gives voice to artists who were previously underrepresented, who weren't given that Christie's global stage the way they are now. And we know that younger collectors, they wanna collect artists of their own generation. They're more comfortable looking at, say, different mediums, like digital art. So those are all ways. We just, we need to be nimble and make sure That we're making the next generation of passionate collectors by putting things in front of them that are interesting to them, but also making sure that they are also seeing other objects. When they come in to see, say, a young contemporary artist, we're also opening up and expanding their lens to look at maybe more historic works of art. Just as an example, we had our 20 and 21st century sale in Hong Kong two weeks ago. I was there with the team. They did a beautiful job of showcasing not only cutting-edge contemporary post-war art, but also they had an old master in their sale. They had 11 bidders on that. Seven of them were new to Christie's, and that's really, to me, that's a great demonstration of the power of the Christie's platform to bring people in and expand their view. Old Masters Comeback --- Caryn Keppler: Has there been a renewed interest in Old Masters? Have you seen that? Bonnie Brennan: There really has. They've had, last year they had 30% of their buyers were new to the Old Masters category. I think there's such a rarity. There's really very few opportunities to acquire great old masters at the highest level of the market. We saw that with a drawing of a Michelangelo foot that was a study for the Sistine Chapel and made almost just over $27 million dollars in January. It was a extraordinary moment, and I think those are the things that wake people up to, "I should be looking at things beyond just maybe that have been created during my lifetime." And we've seen that in the last few years with impressionist art. Again, most of the great old masters, impressionist masters, those are hanging in museums. So when great works come it creates a moment of excitement in our market. We're gonna have some of those in May in New York, which I'm very excited about. Some of which I can't talk about just quite yet, but welcome you and all of our listeners to come see what we'll be offering at Christie's in May. Demystifying Auctions --- Caryn Keppler: I noticed that there has been a change in the auction environment, that the auction houses are opening their doors much more to the public than they used to. Can we talk about that? Bonnie Brennan: I think that's one of my great goals is to demystify the auction. We're a company that started in 1766. When we first began, the only people who ever came to our auctions were members of the trade. So it took decades for collectors to actually sit in the room, and we now have such a diverse audience of sellers, of buyers. But I'm constantly amazed, Caryn, that I still have the same conversation now that I had 25 years ago, which is, "I didn't think you had things here that I could afford or that were interesting to me." And you get young people in. We have a great tech conference every July. We always have a cocktail party. We have art on the walls to show them more about our business, and that's a forum where people say, "I can't believe I could buy something here for $5,000." And that's the moment that we have to keep showcasing that there are moments, there are opportunities, and there's so much great value in the art you can buy here, the furniture that you can acquire for your home that is so beautifully crafted, that are at price points that are very accessible. And so really getting over that misconception that we are only for a very limited audience is one of my greatest goals. Caryn Keppler: And have you seen a change in that audience? Have you seen changes in collecting? For instance, do the younger generations, the Gen Xers, millennials, and Gen Zs have different interests from their parents and grandparents? Living With Art --- Bonnie Brennan: I think with the sort of buying power of women, of younger women, I think we see a great interest in women artists, and that's been wonderful. The rise in prices women artists who have historically been underrepresented great women surrealists, for example. That is a really hot part of the market now. There are so- incredibly beautiful works, and I love to see that. I also think there's been a real, with generational shifts, a change in the way people are living, the spaces they occupy. We see a great demand in design. Great, Lolon, for example, is a wonderful artist who we sell in our 20 and 21st century sales, but also in our design sale. This idea of living with your art, that art is not just what you hang on your walls. It's the dining table you eat at. It's the sofa that you lounge and share time with your family. So those types of behavioral changes, they've been going on for a while, but I think it's a, it's really wonderful. The idea is that you come here and you buy things you love. The best collectors are those who are passionate not to be stored away in the storage facility. So how can we show you how to live in an art-filled world that brings you joy and happiness by being near it? Caryn Keppler: What a wonderful way to say it. Thank you. Advice for Artists --- Caryn Keppler: I represent a lot of artists and I do estate planning for them. What kind of advice can you offer to an up-and-coming artist, and what would that be? Bonnie Brennan: All of us who work in this business are passionate and want to be supportive of artists. We want everything we do to support what artists are doing. We stand alongside that mission, alongside galleries, alongside art advisors. I think when we think about what advice to give to artists, one is an auction price is just a moment in time. It's not a long-term lens. It really defines a very specific moment. The other thing is markets change. Auction past success doesn't necessarily mean that's gonna happen the next season. So I think that strong track record doesn't necessarily always ensure permanent market demand, and we see fluctuations. We see that not only by artist, but by category. You look at furniture markets. We see, as we talked about previously around how people are living now, 25 years ago, American furniture was the height of the auction market, and we've seen some softening that's very... In- the greatest things are still have tremendous demand, and I think we see that cross-category. The best objects will always find competition and dedicated buyers. But tastes do change, and that is collectors' change in taste definitely impacts what we see in the auction market, the auction room. I think visibility for artists is something we really want to do, but we want to do it wisely and in a supportive way. We want to make sure that we give voice to artists, the right platform, but that we also make sure that we are really supporting the way they are presented in other areas to their primary dealers. We want everything to be to work in concert. Visibility and Storytelling --- Caryn Keppler: Let's talk about visibility for an up-and-coming artist. What advice would you give them to improve their visibility in the market? Bonnie Brennan: This is a social media generation, right? As a person who loves to look at art and learn about young artists, One of my former colleagues just did an amazing exhibition in Hong Kong called Art House, where you had 10 different spaces, and you wandered through these alleys of this part of Hong Kong that was fantastic. And I was introduced to so many young artists through that exhibition, and now I follow them all on social media. And I think that sort of being engaging in those opportunities to be exposed, to also build. If you have a social media presence, it's a really easy way for collectors to get to know you, to have direct dialogue with you and your galleries. And people love, I think, whether you're a young artist or you're an auction house selling a collection, the power of storytelling is so strong. People love to hear what was your inspiration to make that work? In our business, why did that collector buy that particular work of art? We're going to have this incredible work by Rothko in the May sales that was bought by Agnes Gund. She bought it directly from Mark Rothko. She visited his studio with Emily Tremaine. These are, this richness of that story of her going to buy something. She had a very clear idea of the type of work she wanted, and after discussing with Rothko his advice, she bought something else. And that is so closely linked to why that work is going to have such tremendous excitement and demand in May. Besides it being an extraordinary masterpiece by the artist, the provenance, the story. We love telling stories, and I think artists them selves have such compelling stories to share. So however they can do that, it just creates a stronger following. Caryn Keppler: Let's go back and talk about stories. What's your favorite story? Bonnie Brennan: Oh, I've-- gosh, it's, that's so hard because we have so many. Each season, each year, we have great stories, and we have stories of couples, we have story of individuals, we have story of philanthropists. That's one thing that's been so powerful, particularly since the Rockefeller sale in twenty eighteen, is the trend that we see of people really selling their art, whether it be a single object or a collection, to fund their philanthropic legacies. Agnes Gund is a great example of that. But one of my favorite stories, because it's a collection that really is probably my favorite collection I've ever been involved with, was the Barney Ebsworth collection. He was a collector who originally sought to collect old masters, but he changed course and started collecting American, frankly because he wanted to buy great quality works and his budget wouldn't allow him to buy the very best old masters at the time. And he put together this amazing collection of twentieth century works by American artists. And also he had great contemporary works too. He looked at, he had a wonderful Hockney double portrait, and it was just a beautiful collection that really spoke to me personally, and it was a really great journey with the team here at Christie's from beginning to end. Collector Myths and Pricing --- Caryn Keppler: What do collectors often misunderstand about the art market? Bonnie Brennan: I think coming back to that point about, past success not necessarily ensuring future demand that understanding that there are fluctuations in the market, that increases are not always permanent. I think the other thing, there's a difference between the way we present works at auction in terms of the value versus, say, an insurance value. We see a lot of clients buy art, whether they buy it from us, they buy it from galleries. They have an insurance value. They then decide to sell it, and some are sometimes quite surprised at the estimate. We always present works at auction with a range of values that can often sometimes be surprising that number doesn't perfectly align with the insurance value. And as you know so well, the power of auction is competition. It's getting people in the room. Once people raise their paddle, they rarely stop. So how can we create that momentum in the room that's ultimately gonna drive that extraordinary price at the end of the evening? And to do that, you have to start with an estimate range that welcomes the widest potential bidding audience. If you overpricing, people think it's not for them, that it's not something they could afford or not something they want to pursue at that price point, and they don't participate. If you can get them in, they rarely stop bidding, as I said. So I think that understanding that it's a marketing tool, that it's not necessarily our estimate's our marketing tool, not a reflection of where we think the value is. Hammer Price Explained --- Caryn Keppler: But can you explain the difference between there's a lot of different price points in the auction world. What's the difference between the hammer price and other price points when you sell at auction? Bonnie Brennan: Sure. When sellers come to Christie's it's all the seller's commission is very much negotiable based on the size, the value, the, of the consignment and that's a rate that's negotiated and private. On the buyer side, a buyer comes to the sale room they raise their paddle or they're on the phone or they're bidding online. They pay what they we refer to as the hammer price, which is the price that's hammered down in the room. And then on top of that, they pay a buyer's premium, which is a fixed amount, and then depending on where we're sending the works, any applicable sales taxes associated with it. So at the moment, and auction houses change their buyer's premium from time to time. Our current buyer's premium is 27% on any hammer price up to 1.5 million. It's 22% on the amount between 1.5 and 8 million, and it's 15% on the portion above 8 million. Artists and Auction Fears --- Caryn Keppler: A lot of artists that I represent are scared of putting their works up for auction because of the buyer's premium and that they're afraid that they're not going to get real value for their work. What would you say to them? Bonnie Brennan: We want, as I said in the beginning, absolutely to support artists. Artists, galleries, auction houses, we all have to work together. We have to make sure the pricing's right. We have to make sure the demand is there. We never wanna put an artist up for auction where we don't feel like we can create success for that work of art. Of course, we take chances sometimes. We make decisions. Not all of our bets work out, but our mission is always to be supportive to the artist, and that sometimes can frustrate buyers or the consigners because buyers of that work of art or consigners to auction because the value isn't where, say, they bought it at a gallery. But what we don't wanna do is position something and not have that competition in the sale room. On the flip side, I think auction is a great way to introduce and expose an artist to a much broader marketplace. We had a great consignment, Caryn, years ago from the Farnsworth Museum in Maine that included a work by Lynne Drexler. Lynne Drexler had a very limited market. Lynne Drexler's market now is extraordinary. There's probably not a season that goes by that we don't have a Lynne Drexler in one of our sales now. And I would say that exposing an artist through the auction platform has brought much more visibility and helped increase that artist's sort of base price line. But that started in a very responsible way in terms of where we priced those works the first time we offered one in a Christie's major 2021 sale. Rapid Fire and Accessibility --- Caryn Keppler: Let's go to some quick rapid fire question. What's the most surprising lesson you learned during your career? Bonnie Brennan: The most surprising lesson, I think, is the power of teamwork. I think we all wanna excel, and we wanna do great things, and really understanding that you go so much further when you go together. And I think everything we do in this business is about teamwork. It's about leveraging the strengths of your colleagues. And how much, how brilliant my colleagues are really can fuel... If I can leverage them and really put those teams together, Christie's can do so many more incredible things than I could ever do by myself. Caryn Keppler: What's the one mistake collectors should avoid? Bonnie Brennan: I think not asking for advice, not doing your homework. I think there are so many resources available now, whether it's auction houses or galleries or dealers or so much is available. Doing your homework, making sure you're buying from somebody who's trusted, who's known. Making sure that you've really asked all the right questions. Now, what's the condition of this work? Sometimes works can be seemingly in good condition to the blind eye, but have some issues that you can't see. So making sure you're really a thoughtful, curious buyer. And it's easy to find those questions. Which question should I ask? We see a lot of people buy art on vacation. They get swept up in the moment. I was just in Portugal for Easter and, you're wandering the streets, and my fiancé wanted to buy something for his house. And those are the moments you kinda wanna pull back. Also coming back to what's the purpose? It's fine to buy a work on vacation if the purpose is to have a memory of that experience. But if you're buying to build a collection, really come back to those critical questions that are gonna make sure that you're buying a work of art that merits the price you're paying. Caryn Keppler: It was funny, the the first work of art that I ever bought myself was on vacation, and I was walking through the back alleys of Nassau, Bonnie Brennan: Oh Caryn Keppler: saw something on the street that I really loved. And it it's still the favorite piece that I've ever acquired. And I remember I was speaking to the the gallery owner who looked at me. I was probably very poorly dressed because it was hot and in the Caribbean. She looked at me and she said to me, "Oh, you can't afford that." So what do you what do you tell somebody who thinks that they can't afford something at Christie's? Bonnie Brennan: I would encourage them to visit our website and come see us in any of our galleries because I think at any point there's always access to something that is much more modest than I think people think. We have our, in our luxury sales we have these collection sales. We had the great moment our colleague Tash was so closely involved with this presentation of Elton John's collection when he sold Atlanta apartment, and the diversity of material, of photographs, art glass, costumes, sunglasses, it was... there was something for everybody, and at very reasonable price points. And the best part about our digital growth is sharing that with people who visit us on our website. We have 80 categories, and I would challenge you to, after looking at everything we offer, to come back and have that same statement. Unusual Categories at Christie’s --- Caryn Keppler: What are the most unusual categories that you have? Bonnie Brennan: We sell dinosaurs. Those are some of our natural history sales. We sold, within our books and manuscripts department, we have such passionate experts who can tell you... We just sold Jack Kerouac's scroll from On The Road. It is just unbelievable demand. But to stand and listen to my colleague Peter Clarnette speak so passionately about any of these objects is a real privilege. And that's, I think the one thing, Caryn, that I would say to new buyers is so many people come to a city and they, the first thing on their list is to go to a museum, which is fantastic. I love going to museums. We are a museum in many ways, open to the public, particularly at these marquee moments, whether it's our Asia Week sales, our Luxury Week sales, our 2021 art sales in May and November, and we want... We're open to the public. We love having people come and experience art and ask questions. The galleries are always filled with my colleagues who are so knowledgeable, who love to engage and discuss. And those are the places where we can begin the discussion that sort of sows the seed of that person who might be building a collection. And we had a great story of somebody who came to the front desk and wanted to said "I'm here to see this particular painting." And that first time visitor has become a really valued client to Christie's, who I know, who my colleagues look forward to welcoming every season. So walk through our doors, and we'd love to have you. Affordable Ways to Buy --- Caryn Keppler: Okay, Bonnie. You've talked about the fact that there are different price points that might be attractive to people who can't afford multimillion-dollar pieces of work but are looking for something in the more affordable category. What can those people buy at Christie's? Bonnie Brennan: The good news is, Karen, we have 80 categories, and there is always something I think that surprises our buyers in terms of the accessibility of the price points. We have great contemporary art at the height of the market, but we also have many opportunities throughout the year where we have what we refer to as our mid-season sales, our post-war to present. There's great accessible price points in markets like our prints and multiple sales, our photograph sale, which we're actually in the process of hanging right now at our Rockefeller Center galleries. And actually, another great opportunity is our employee art sale, where we have a, an auction, an online auction dedicated to the works created by employees of Christie's. We have one for our London colleagues, we have one here in New York, and I buy from it every year. We have so many talented artists who work at Christie's, and we showcase their works, and we contribute the funds to charity. And I'll tell you, they're amazing things and very reasonable estimates. Caryn Keppler: That's wonderful. Memorable Sales and May Preview --- Caryn Keppler: What was your most memorable sale? Bonnie Brennan: Oh, Paul Allen. Paul Allen's was such a visionary collector. We called the sale Visionary really because it reflected so much his lens and commitment to buying the best across all categories, across all periods of art. He had a Botticelli, he had a Cézanne, he had a Jasper Johns, late works by David Hockney. He really was just voracious in his appetite for exceptional masterpieces. And it was the record, still the record for any collection ever sold at auction, and it was a, it was really a privilege to showcase that collection at Rockefeller Center now, gosh, four years ago. Caryn Keppler: And this coming May, you have another big sale coming up? Bonnie Brennan: We do. We have probably one of the strongest sales we've had in a long time. It was a reflection, I think, of the strength of the market, which is good for everybody, not just at Christie's. And what we have to offer at Christie's this season is fantastic because it's a blend of all those things that we talked about in our discussion. It combines great quality of these works of art, rarity really special provenance, which is the history of ownership, gives us a chance to focus on that storytelling that we talked about, celebrating a collector's vision. We have Aggie Gund, but we have so many others as well that are gonna be really in such a complement to her journey, some of which we haven't announced yet. And it's gonna be just so richly textured with different examples from different parts of the twentieth and twenty-first century. I'm very excited. We open our galleries in the second weekend in May, and our sales will be the week of May eighteenth. May Highlights and Masterpieces --- Caryn Keppler: Can you share with us some of the pieces that might be in that collection? Bonnie Brennan: In May, we have the opportunity for storytelling, not only for Agnes Gund's collection, but also extraordinary masterpieces from the collection of Cy Newhouse. Sixteen incredible objects and works of art that are exceptional in every way, and Cy Newhouse was one of the greatest collectors of the twentieth century. We had the privilege of offering works from this collection before. This is going to be truly such a unique and special opportunity. Works by Brâncuși, by Jackson Pollock, by Miro. It's really-- Rothstein, it's Picasso. It's just an exceptional sort of look back at great works from the twentieth century. We have works from the collection of Marilyn Harrison from Florida, great philanthropist, strong female collecting eye. I love seeing that. It's gonna be great to showcase that alongside Agnes Gund. We have one of the greatest collections here from New York that showcases probably the best Renoir that's come to market in in this century. It's really it's extraordinary. So we are very excited to present that. It truly will be something for everybody whether you're a impressionist fan, you love modern art, you love blue chip post-war art, or you're very interested in cutting-edge very contemporary art. We have one of the probably the best minimalist art collection ever to come to market from the McNeil family in Philadelphia, so it's going to be a very wonderful season. Favorites and Closing --- Caryn Keppler: What's your favorite piece in the collections? Bonnie Brennan: Oh, that's too hard. I can't pick a favorite. No favorites? We're all-- There are too many great children to choose. No, I couldn't. But we're really, it's one of my favorite seasons because of all those things I said, because of the quality, the rarity, but also these wonderful collectors whose stories we get to tell, and to me, that's the best part because that's what collectors love to hear. I'm buying something that has this great history that somebody, particularly new buyers love to hear that. I wanna look at this Gund Rothko because I have such respect for Agnes Gund as a collector, who she was in philanthropy. I'm a New Yorker. I love what she did for arts in the public schools with Studio in a School. There becomes different motivations beyond just the object itself, which is often an very much enough for people to show up and bid. But when you layer it with all these other parts to the journey of how this work came to Christie's it's one of my favorite parts. Caryn Keppler: Favorite artist now? Bonnie Brennan: I have so many favorite artists, but my longtime favorite artist is Cézanne. I love Matisse, but I also love a lot of contemporary artists. I love Cecily Brown. I also love looking at young artists, going to the sort of the satellite fairs. Whenever there's Frieze or Basel, there's always a fair that's just off the beaten track, and that's where you can oftentimes meet and discover younger artists that are some of those that I'm now I'm exposed to from visiting my former colleague Jackie's project in Hong Kong. I bought a piece from him from an artist I didn't previously know. I'm always looking and excited to, to meet and see the next generation. I particularly love figurative work that's an area I'm always looking twice at. Caryn Keppler: Favorite museum? Bonnie Brennan: Our owner's museum in Paris, the Bourse de Commerce, is really a special place, and something that I think everybody should see because it's not only our owner is so extraordinary in his passion for his collecting, but the space itself is also almost like a chapel. It's, there's a calmness and peace to it that's truly beautiful. I love American art, so I'm, I've always loved the Whitney Museum, and its old and new forms. Caryn Keppler: Okay. Have you seen the Raphael exhibit at The Met? Bonnie Brennan: I haven't. The Met is, of course just an extraordinary place. It's one of my favorite places to go in New York, and I'm excited to get to see Raphael. I haven't, have not seen it yet. Caryn Keppler: Yeah. Neither have I. Bonnie, it was great having this conversation with you. I really look forward to coming to Christie's in May to see what's in the galleries. It sounds absolutely fabulous. Bonnie Brennan: We look forward to having you Caryn always, and especially this season to showcase all the things we're gonna have on view. So thank you for having me, and I look forward to seeing you at Christie's Caryn Keppler: I look forward too. Thank you.