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6. Exploring the Depths of Family Constellations with Brian Berneman · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kia ora everyone, welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:03
  Tracy: Today I'm excited to be talking with Brian Berneman, or otherwise known as Brian Berneman, who's from Argentina, but calls New Zealand home.
• 0:16
  Tracy: So welcome Brian.
• 0:18
  Brian: Thank you, Tracy.
• 0:19
  Brian: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:20
  Brian: It's a pleasure to be here and to be able to talk about Constellation and all that.
• 0:27
  Tracy: Mmm.
• 0:28
  Tracy: Yeah, it's a pleasure.
• 0:30
  Tracy: fast expanding subject, isn't it?
• 0:32
  Tracy: Like it seems to have a lot of momentum in New Zealand in the last few years, which is great.
• 0:38
  Brian: Yes, definitely.
• 0:39
  Brian: I've seen this, you know, especially the last two years, I've seen a huge, huge, uh, growth in awareness and also experience, so.
• 0:49
  Tracy: And so you and I met, I think it was 2019 at the retreat.
• 0:55
  Tracy: Yes.
• 0:56
  Tracy: We did the retreat in, um.
• 0:58
  Brian: In Whangarei Heads.
• 0:59
  Tracy: In Whangarei Heads.
• 1:00
  Tracy: Yeah, I shouldn't have think of the name.
• 1:01
  Tracy: Davies Bay, that's right.
• 1:02
  Tracy: Yes.
• 1:02
  Tracy: Um, and, and, and Constellations was still one of those, oh, not many people knew about it back then, did they?
• 1:09
  Tracy: Yes.
• 1:10
  Tracy: So, yeah.
• 1:11
  Tracy: So tell me a little bit about, um, about yourselves for the listeners who, who don't know who you are.
• 1:16
  Brian: Hmm.
• 1:17
  Brian: Yeah.
• 1:17
  Brian: So, uh, sister, I'm originally from Argentina and I'm fortunate that I chose the right family for this lifetime.
• 1:28
  Brian: Uh, I chose parents that when I was a kid, started to get into the own path of growth and spirituality and through their experiences.
• 1:44
  Brian: Things started to shift at home a little bit.
• 1:47
  Brian: So conversations at the dinner table instead of watching TV whilst we were eating and bringing some different perspectives and recommending books and little by little I started to, you know, be intrigued by some of those, those practices or those perspectives.
• 2:06
  Brian: Um, by the time that I was Uh, teenager, they would invite me and my siblings if we wanted to go to, to classes or, you know, to different workshops with them.
• 2:17
  Brian: And for some reason, I said yes, uh, my siblings mostly said no, and I would go, you know, and, um, go and do a yoga class or a meditation class or go and have a healing and things like that.
• 2:32
  Brian: And, and I found something really there that sparked.
• 2:37
  Brian: a knowing in me.
• 2:39
  Brian: And I think that it was a remembering of some of the things that I used to know.
• 2:44
  Brian: And as well as a kid and a teenager, I was really stressed out.
• 2:49
  Brian: I was really anxious.
• 2:51
  Brian: Um, when I started driving, I had a lot of anger issues.
• 2:55
  Brian: So a lot of road rage and, and through this practices and through the healings, I started to see how I started to shift and my behavior daily started to shift.
• 3:06
  Brian: Therefore, I just thought, okay, there's something here.
• 3:10
  Brian: Let's go a little bit deeper and deeper and deeper.
• 3:13
  Brian: And so I was doing that as I had, you know, my regular studies.
• 3:19
  Brian: I went to university and I studied journalism and I studied another bachelor in communications, and then I started working as a journalist on the radio, um, and then a few years after that, I did my post grad in neuroscience.
• 3:36
  Brian: And once I finished that, I was like, I need to go and explore the world.
• 3:43
  Brian: So I just bought a one way ticket to New York, three nights on a hotel.
• 3:48
  Brian: And that was my plan.
• 3:51
  Brian: And then I lived in New York for, for a while.
• 3:55
  Brian: Then I lived in Miami, then I moved to Germany.
• 3:59
  Brian: Then I went back to the U S where.
• 4:02
  Brian: I lived in California for a few years in the middle of the mountain in a Tibetan Buddhist retreat center.
• 4:09
  Brian: Uh, so those, those years there were super transformational because I, I got to really immerse myself into just, this is all that I need to actually do.
• 4:24
  Brian: Focus on me and whatever it is that I need to do in the community.
• 4:28
  Brian: And that was really helpful in bringing a lot of my understandings into how this can be incorporated into daily life.
• 4:39
  Brian: And then after that, and with a brief stint in Italy and the UK, I came to New Zealand and yeah, now it's been 10 years that I've been here.
• 4:51
  Brian: Um, yeah, and it's been, been really interesting.
• 4:55
  Brian: And throughout all of that time, uh, I came across a lot of different healing modalities, like Reiki, sound healing, um, different movements, somatic practices, family constellations.
• 5:08
  Brian: And with all of them, there was a point that I was like, I need to learn how to do this for me.
• 5:16
  Tracy: Not,
• 5:17
  Brian: I never thought, you know, like I'll be doing this.
• 5:20
  Brian: As a way of making a living.
• 5:23
  Brian: I just thought I want to know this.
• 5:26
  Brian: And the way of knowing this is going through the trainings.
• 5:29
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 5:30
  Tracy: So who introduced you to family constellations?
• 5:33
  Tracy: How did you meet it?
• 5:35
  Brian: Yeah.
• 5:35
  Brian: So it was actually really interesting.
• 5:37
  Brian: I, I went to, I was doing this form of Tibetan yoga and.
• 5:44
  Brian: My Tibetan yoga teacher was actually a family constellations facilitator.
• 5:50
  Brian: I didn't know, but basically after one of the classes, uh, I think I was 16 or something like that.
• 5:57
  Brian: And after the, one of the classes, she, she told me, Hey, like I'm doing this thing on Sunday, if you'd like to come.
• 6:05
  Brian: And I was like, yeah, sure.
• 6:07
  Brian: I didn't know what it was.
• 6:09
  Brian: Uh, and I actually went there on Sunday.
• 6:13
  Brian: And there was a group that was already kind of like practicing, ongoing, um, with different constellation circles.
• 6:23
  Brian: And There was not an explanation of what it was.
• 6:28
  Brian: Uh, so I was just suddenly in this circle full of people around and my teacher was in the middle and she invited this woman to go and she started to tell her that she wanted to work on her relationship with with her kids, that she wanted to have a better relationship with her kids.
• 6:49
  Brian: So then my teacher started to point to different people in the circle and different people started to go and I just thought that they were acting, you know, I didn't know what family constellations was.
• 7:00
  Brian: So I just thought, okay, these people are acting and this is psychodrama, you know, and it wasn't until, uh, there was, you know, the dynamic of what they were doing Like my teacher was like, okay, there's something missing here.
• 7:17
  Brian: And so she asked this woman if she had lost a kid and she said that yes.
• 7:22
  Brian: And then she pointed out to me to come into a circle.
• 7:26
  Brian: And as soon as I stepped into the circle, I felt this need to go towards this strange woman and I just went to her feet and I just hugged her.
• 7:35
  Brian: And in my head, I'm like, What's going on?
• 7:39
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 7:40
  Brian: and then she comes down and she hugs me and she says, you know Like I see you and I love you and I just start crying and crying and crying and in my head I'm like what's going on and then you know like well a couple of things happened in the dynamic and then I stepped out and I was like wow this was amazing.
• 8:03
  Brian: The experience that I had, I couldn't, you know, at that moment until I started to learn more about family constellations, I didn't really understand what happened, but I knew that there was something really powerful there.
• 8:16
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 8:17
  Brian: Um, and ever since then I was hooked.
• 8:21
  Tracy: It feels a little bit like that, isn't it?
• 8:22
  Tracy: Once the work calls you?
• 8:26
  Tracy: Um, it's very, yeah.
• 8:30
  Tracy: I, I sometimes we call it you, we have our, our Constellation fans or, and that isn't, it's just because people, you feel this desire to come back, whether you are sitting and doing your own pieces of work or whether you are, um, witnessing or representing.
• 8:46
  Tracy: It's just there's something in it that really feeds your soul, I would think.
• 8:50
  Tracy: Would be a really good description for it.
• 8:52
  Tracy: Oh, that's wow, that's wonderful.
• 8:54
  Tracy: And does anybody else in your family, um, dabble in constellations?
• 8:59
  Brian: Not facilitating, uh, I thought my parents have definitely done sessions.
• 9:05
  Brian: Uh, my, uh, I can, I can remember if my siblings have, um, actually one day I would love to actually do one with my whole family, uh, but we'll see.
• 9:19
  Brian: We'll see if it happens.
• 9:20
  Tracy: Have you noticed a different, have you noticed a shift in your family since you've been receiving or experiencing constellations and?
• 9:28
  Brian: Yes, and as well I think that I noticed because I was already working with constellation and everything else that I was doing, um, when my dad started to do some healing as well as some, some constellation sessions around some of the topics that there were some challenges in our, brother family and a pattern that, uh, through that challenge actually taking place, we discovered a pattern that was taking place in generations.
• 9:57
  Brian: So my dad did a constellation and I noticed then, okay, something had shifted.
• 10:04
  Tracy: Wow.
• 10:04
  Tracy: That's great.
• 10:05
  Tracy: Uh, do you have a, Anything that you specialize in with constellations?
• 10:11
  Tracy: You know, some people have a, some people will specialize in certain areas like addiction or relationships or health.
• 10:17
  Tracy: Is there anything that you particularly?
• 10:20
  Brian: No, you know, I actually, at one point I was Questioning whether I should, you know, like do that or, or if there was something.
• 10:29
  Brian: And I realized that throughout time, and I think that partly it's because of how multidisciplinary I am in everything else that I'm doing around this.
• 10:39
  Brian: I think that it's just a beautiful tool to use for anything that comes my way.
• 10:47
  Brian: So I think that I'm, I'm more of a.
• 10:51
  Brian: The human element and whatever it is that is, it's in our way or it's blocking us.
• 10:58
  Brian: I have found that almost everyone can benefit from doing a family constellation session.
• 11:05
  Brian: And one of the things that I have found, and I don't know how this is for you, Tracy, is that a lot of people, just because it's called family constellations gets caught up in the fact that it has to do with family in terms of what their issue is.
• 11:20
  Brian: And one of the things that I often say is that family constellations or systemic constellations is understanding more of where these energies can come from, or these entanglements can come from, more than what's the actual blockage or issue or challenge in our lives.
• 11:38
  Tracy: I'm just thinking, because I'm just doing this totally off the top of my head.
• 11:43
  Tracy: Um, I probably should write a list, but I'd just like to wing it and see what the view is going to bring us, bring forward for us anyway.
• 11:51
  Tracy: And I know that you've been doing quite a bit of work through the festivals.
• 11:54
  Tracy: And that's, um, that's been creating quite a bit of interest, isn't it?
• 12:01
  Tracy: Like, uh, yeah, I'm meeting a few people that are mentioning that.
• 12:05
  Brian: That's quite interesting because every time that I'm doing a session, the, the energy is contained, like there's, you know, um, There's a start, there's an end, the, the energy of the space is contained when I'm doing one on one sessions the same.
• 12:26
  Brian: On a festival, I wasn't sure if to actually do it, because on the festivals there's people coming and going, people don't, you know, like, the energy is not that good.
• 12:36
  Brian: Well contained because of that, like some people are just, you know, they're testing things.
• 12:42
  Brian: They're just seeing if they are interested in it.
• 12:44
  Brian: So there's some people in the periphery, there's some people.
• 12:47
  Brian: So I actually, I remember the first, uh, and then I've done this when I started the.
• 12:55
  Brian: The workshops during the festivals.
• 12:58
  Brian: I made it clear.
• 12:59
  Brian: Okay, this is it Like nobody else comes and if you are not wanting to stay for the entire time, this is the time to get out
• 13:09
  Tracy: So
• 13:09
  Brian: that we actually maintain the energy because, you know, like 100 people, 200 people, it's a lot of energy in the space and it's a lot of energy for, for everybody once we start the constellation process.
• 13:24
  Brian: And suddenly, you know, they start feeling all of that and
• 13:27
  Tracy: yeah,
• 13:28
  Brian: and for some people that can be quite a lot, especially if some people start to come and go, then the energy starts to, to be a little bit more challenging to, to contain and to experience in that way.
• 13:39
  Brian: So I do think that.
• 13:42
  Brian: It has been wonderful seeing the shifts that have taken place during the festivals because of the fact that most of them, the people that attended, had no idea what Family Constellations was.
• 13:56
  Brian: And there was Something that piqued their interest and they just came and they were like, okay, what's this?
• 14:04
  Brian: And some people didn't know and they were like i'm going there and you know, they wanted to to experience it.
• 14:09
  Brian: We're in a friend Yes, exactly And as well, I think that this is one of the challenges a lot of times for me during festivals just not only for for me facilitating just for festivals as a whole is that There's not that much You Time yeah for integration.
• 14:28
  Brian: There's not that much time for processing things.
• 14:31
  Brian: So I actually In every single festival that I've actually facilitated after the session, I had to stay with one or two people that were activated and they didn't have the tools or, or know how to actually self regulate and come back to, to being, you know, okay and integrating the session.
• 14:52
  Brian: So I had to stay with them for, you know, 30, 40 minutes just to work with them.
• 14:58
  Brian: to support them.
• 14:59
  Brian: And I think that that's a lot of times one of the challenges in spaces like that, that a lot of people are just trying out so many things and, and some of these experiences can be quite activating or quite transformational or they can shift something big.
• 15:15
  Brian: And the, the container is not created as a whole of the festival.
• 15:21
  Brian: It's not created, There are times for that safety.
• 15:25
  Brian: Uh, so I, because of my understanding on safety, it's really important for me.
• 15:33
  Brian: And this is what I say every time that I'm doing that is like, okay, if something gets activated, don't go away and just be wobbling around.
• 15:43
  Brian: Come and let me know.
• 15:44
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:46
  Tracy: I say that too, and I say it in my workshops.
• 15:48
  Tracy: You know, if you activated, triggered, or whatever, whatever words you want to call it, um, it's your responsibility to let me know.
• 15:57
  Tracy: And, or, someone that you trust, your own therapist, or counsellor, or don't, um, go away feeling completely overwhelmed.
• 16:07
  Brian: Yeah, and you know, I'm really glad that I actually did those festivals because I think that a lot of people after the festival started to know, and even if they didn't come to the, uh, the sessions, they heard from other people that come or just because it was, you know, like.
• 16:29
  Brian: Um, part of the, the schedule, then people, even if they didn't come, they knew about it.
• 16:35
  Brian: So then they can do the research if something sparks an interest.
• 16:40
  Brian: So yeah, I think that it's been, it's been really, really interesting and as a facilitator, facilitating constellations of, you know, 200 people has been really interesting as well.
• 16:55
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:56
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 16:57
  Tracy: Yeah, there was Soul Safari down in Raglan, um, 10 years ago, I think that, 10, 11 years ago, and I, I did three years at that, and then it kind of faded out, and then Spirit Fest started, and that was a beautiful, learning experience as well, but a great way for people to connect and meet the work.
• 17:18
  Tracy: And I still get people, I'll get a message from someone saying, Hey, I saw you eight years ago at Soul Safari or 10 years ago or something like that.
• 17:27
  Tracy: Uh, now, and now I'm ready to do a piece of work.
• 17:30
  Tracy: It's like, okay, great.
• 17:32
  Brian: It's, it's so interesting, you know, I think that just from our own path and our own
• 17:40
  Tracy: healings,
• 17:41
  Brian: it's always at the perfect timing.
• 17:43
  Brian: Like I tell a lot of times to people, some people are like, you know, they, I get a message from someone that they are interested in, but, and I say, you know, if it is the right time, it will happen.
• 17:55
  Brian: And if not, it's not the right time.
• 17:56
  Brian: And just to be able to, to be okay with that for them so that they understand, you know, It's not always the right time.
• 18:05
  Brian: We might not be ready.
• 18:06
  Brian: The energies might not be, you know, aligned for us to actually change something because perhaps we are still in the process of learning a lesson or, or whatever.
• 18:17
  Brian: That we might not understand fully, you know, like everything of what is happening and why things are happening.
• 18:25
  Brian: And, and I think that that is important.
• 18:27
  Brian: And, you know, I had this, this person, um, a while ago that, that came to work on, on her business.
• 18:37
  Brian: You know, she, she, her business was, um, a little bit.
• 18:42
  Brian: Stuck.
• 18:42
  Brian: Like it wasn't flowing.
• 18:45
  Brian: And we actually, like I started, she didn't come as for a constellation session.
• 18:50
  Brian: She actually came for some holistic and, you know, like perspectives.
• 18:54
  Brian: Mm-Hmm.
• 18:55
  Brian: . Um, and I started to sense that there was something underneath like this energy.
• 19:00
  Brian: So we did a constellation and actually, uh, what came out was that when she was like a teenager, she was sexually abused.
• 19:13
  Brian: And, and she had, you know, like forgotten about that.
• 19:18
  Brian: And during the process of, of the constellation and we did a few more sessions, um, she was able to heal that.
• 19:28
  Brian: And then.
• 19:29
  Brian: She told me, you know, if it, like, if it wasn't now, if it was a year ago, she wouldn't have been ready to even face the fact that that had happened to her.
• 19:42
  Brian: And now she was ready, unconsciously, she was ready to actually face this because she didn't remember really.
• 19:50
  Brian: But her life circumstances allowed her as well to, to do that.
• 19:54
  Brian: And then, you know, like her business started to, to flow, but I think most importantly, she was able to actually heal and that it was at the right time for her.
• 20:06
  Brian: This is one of the things that I, that I love about the Constellation perspective, that it.
• 20:13
  Brian: It's not that linear or it's not like my business is not flowing.
• 20:17
  Brian: Therefore, I need to do something with the business.
• 20:19
  Brian: It can be something that has nothing to do with that or, or anything in any kind of aspect of our lives.
• 20:25
  Brian: And I think that, that energetic entanglement is one of the things that, that I love to, to be able to just.
• 20:34
  Brian: Trust that the field is going to show the right thing that needs to actually be worked on at the moment.
• 20:43
  Tracy: Yeah, and it's amazing how our body will hold on to things, right, and our body and the unconscious things that block us.
• 20:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 20:55
  Tracy: Do you have any other, um, things that you could share like just for the listeners, um, so they can have an idea?
• 21:03
  Brian: Yeah, there was one, uh, a really interesting one because there was this, this woman that, that came to, to one of the sessions and she wanted to heal, you know, uh, something she wasn't sure it had to do with relationships.
• 21:21
  Brian: She wasn't, you know, like finding a partner.
• 21:25
  Brian: And during the constellation, what came up was her parents.
• 21:29
  Brian: And she told me like, that she actually had been estranged from her parents.
• 21:34
  Brian: They haven't spoken in over like 80 years.
• 21:37
  Brian: She knew nothing about them, they knew nothing about her, um, so we started to, you know, like, go with the, the constellation and the following day she sends me a message and she tells me my dad just called me after eight years of nothing.
• 21:57
  Brian: My dad just called me and she's like, how, how did that happen?
• 22:01
  Brian: And I'm like, well, you know, he was.
• 22:04
  Brian: Sensing something in the field changing and I think this is one of the powerful things that happened and she was like, this is so surprising and for me, I was like, amazing, it is not surprising.
• 22:15
  Brian: Like I have had so many times where people, the day after or two days after a Constellation session, they message me and you won't believe this, you know, and I'm like.
• 22:26
  Brian: I do believe it because it's so powerful.
• 22:28
  Brian: And I think that that effect that doing a session can have on the entire family or on the entire system that we belong to is one of the things of why I usually say to people and invite people to try Family Constellations, because I have found it That almost any other, uh, methodology that I use for healing, it has a little bit of an effect because we changed, but it's not working specifically with those entanglements.
• 23:02
  Brian: Therefore, it's not actually having that same ripple effect with, with the rest of the people.
• 23:08
  Brian: Yeah.
• 23:08
  Brian: Um, and, and I, and I'm fascinated by that.
• 23:11
  Brian: And, you know, I, I, I've been through time with.
• 23:18
  Brian: Constellations that brought up things that.
• 23:22
  Brian: People don't even know about at all.
• 23:25
  Brian: Like there was this, um, this man that, that came to a constellation and he's like, I don't know why I'm here.
• 23:35
  Brian: There's something that brought me here and I don't know what I want to work on.
• 23:40
  Brian: So we, you know, we started.
• 23:43
  Brian: The Constellation completely opened, no, no topic, no specific thing to, to work on.
• 23:50
  Brian: And what came up was something that happened whilst her mom was pregnant of him.
• 23:58
  Brian: And basically, he started to, or, or from that moment on, since before he was even born, this entire lifetime, he had lived with this energy, with this shame or this guilt that wasn't his.
• 24:16
  Tracy: And
• 24:16
  Brian: he wasn't aware of it.
• 24:17
  Brian: He didn't know what it was.
• 24:18
  Brian: But once the constellation finished, he was like, wow, you know, like this is, this is completely different.
• 24:26
  Brian: Like, this is a completely different life.
• 24:29
  Brian: And, you know, it's someone like.
• 24:31
  Brian: I think that he must have been, what, 50 something, 60, I can't remember, for the first time in their life, you know, noticing that this heaviness or this cloud wasn't there.
• 24:45
  Tracy: That's great, eh?
• 24:46
  Brian: Oh, I'm just, you know, like, it's, it's so fascinating.
• 24:51
  Tracy: It's amazing what we feel when we're in our mother's wombs.
• 24:55
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Tracy: You know, that in anything that, um, that she's feeling, whether, you know, if they were displaced or there was disconnection, arguing, um, you know, grief, all of those things.
• 25:08
  Tracy: So if someone else in the family dies when you're in your mother's womb, you can, you feel those layers of, of the pain that she's, That are unspoken.
• 25:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 25:18
  Brian: Yeah.
• 25:19
  Brian: And you know, one of the, I remember when I was going through the training, um, during the training, we did a lot of constellations, you know, uh, on for ourselves and with everybody else that was doing the training.
• 25:33
  Brian: And I remember once, uh, one of the ones that was really powerful for me was that I didn't have a good, a good relationship with my dad's dad, and I wanted to heal that.
• 25:47
  Brian: And during the Constellation process, what came up were things in the field about my grandpa, because he escaped the Second World War, uh, from, from Poland because of being Jewish.
• 26:03
  Brian: And so, you know, suddenly, like, in the Constellation, Hitler is there, and me forgiving Hitler.
• 26:16
  Brian: Um, and it was so powerful, like in my head until I did it, I was like, you know, no.
• 26:24
  Brian: And then I started to remember more the perspective of understanding, of compassion, you know, and the understanding that, you know, if it wasn't because of the Nazis, my grandpa wouldn't have escaped from Poland.
• 26:39
  Brian: He wouldn't have gone to Argentina.
• 26:42
  Brian: He wouldn't have had my dad, therefore I don't exist.
• 26:46
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 26:47
  Brian: Yep.
• 26:47
  Tracy: Yep.
• 26:48
  Brian: And, and that was, you know, this big thing and, and it's something that a lot of times with people that have had some huge trauma like sexual, like sexual abuse or, or something like more of a traumatic event happening in their lives, to be able to actually forgive the person that actually did that.
• 27:10
  Brian: I, I usually share my experience of, of forgiving Hitler and, and I, I did in, in one of the, um, the festivals, I, I did, uh, some, a constellation, a group constellation on forgiving the colonizers here in Aotearoa.
• 27:33
  Brian: And the same thing, like I shared this perspective of understanding, you know, like it already happened.
• 27:42
  Brian: And if we are staying in this cycle or this energy of perpetrator and victim, it won't actually solve anything because we just want to get back and we want revenge.
• 27:57
  Brian: Instead of being able to say, okay, let's heal this, let's choose something new and something different, something healthier for everyone involved.
• 28:06
  Tracy: Hmm, that's interesting that you talk about forgiveness.
• 28:08
  Tracy: In my teachings, um, the way I learned was that forgiveness is for yourself, for the grief that you carry, the pain that you're carrying, and rather than forgiving the perpetrator, it's about leaving it, giving them a place, okay?
• 28:23
  Tracy: So it's, it's not about, um, Never, you know, pushing them out of the circle, but it's about seeing them, they have a place, like you say, if, if, if that hadn't happened with Hitler, your grandfather wouldn't have done, moved to Argentina, wouldn't have met your grandmother, your father, blah, blah, blah, you wouldn't be here.
• 28:40
  Tracy: So as Hitler has a place in the system, you can leave the pain and the grief and the angst and that with them and forgive yourself for having carried the burdens, the shames, the, and the pain, and then you can move forward, right?
• 28:56
  Brian: Yes, yes.
• 28:57
  Brian: And that's definitely the same understanding that I learned in terms of the forgiveness.
• 29:01
  Brian: Like I'm forgiving this, this person, or this energy, not to get them off the hook.
• 29:09
  Tracy: It's
• 29:09
  Brian: so that I'm no longer carrying that energy.
• 29:12
  Brian: Exactly.
• 29:12
  Brian: As you said, like,
• 29:13
  Tracy: yeah,
• 29:14
  Brian: when I understand that it's about being compassionate with myself, most importantly.
• 29:20
  Tracy: And you see people go, Oh, And they take a really big breath out and it's like, yeah, they're getting it.
• 29:27
  Tracy: And there's a, it makes it the field lighter.
• 29:29
  Tracy: You feel that's been my own experience as well.
• 29:33
  Brian: And, you know, similarly to this, I think that a lot of times I get a lot of clients that, that come and they want to, you know, like whatever is the challenge in their life, they just want to get rid of it.
• 29:47
  Brian: And I keep on telling them what we want is to release it or to let it go.
• 29:54
  Brian: Not to get rid of things, because on my understanding, when we get rid of things, we're excluding it.
• 30:01
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 30:01
  Brian: And everything we're excluding, that becomes one of those entanglements that then it's, it's there for our entire system.
• 30:08
  Brian: It kind of
• 30:09
  Tracy: chases you around, doesn't it?
• 30:10
  Brian: Yes.
• 30:11
  Brian: I mean, it's getting bigger and
• 30:13
  Tracy: bigger and it chases you.
• 30:14
  Tracy: More
• 30:14
  Brian: toxic.
• 30:15
  Brian: Yeah.
• 30:15
  Brian: Like that's what I say.
• 30:16
  Brian: Like, so just for me, it has been so helpful, the perspective of, I don't want to get rid of anything, any feeling, any energies, any experiences.
• 30:26
  Brian: What I want is to include it, to embrace them, to be grateful for them, to love them, so that then I can let them go.
• 30:33
  Brian: So that then they are no longer holding on to me, and I am no longer holding on to them.
• 30:38
  Brian: And I think that that is so powerful as a shift for my understanding, and then for so many people that I work with.
• 30:47
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 30:48
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 30:49
  Tracy: So you don't just do constellations.
• 30:51
  Tracy: I know you've got some amazing gongs and you do a lot of, um, mindfulness and for the mental health and, and everything else.
• 30:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 30:59
  Brian: Yes.
• 31:00
  Brian: Yeah.
• 31:00
  Brian: Yeah.
• 31:00
  Brian: It's,
• 31:01
  Tracy: um,
• 31:02
  Brian: it's amazing for me to, to be able to actually, you know, keep on playing all of these different aspects and, and just to, to be able to literally, like, I'm so grateful to, to make.
• 31:16
  Brian: This my life to be able to, you know, have the gongs and the singing balls to be able to work with those frequencies and the sounds to be able to, to go to university, to teach mental health and wellbeing for people that are.
• 31:32
  Brian: Not, you know, even aware of anything on this, this spectrum.
• 31:38
  Brian: Uh, some people are a little bit, but majority of my students are, are really unaware of a lot of these things.
• 31:45
  Brian: And to be able to, to work with businesses, to bring mindfulness and different practices to, to be able to, to be well, because at the end of the day, for me, all of the different practices, all of the different traditions, all of the different methodologies.
• 32:01
  Brian: Is to, to move from just surviving to living well.
• 32:06
  Tracy: And I think
• 32:07
  Brian: that this is a potential that we all have.
• 32:10
  Brian: And unfortunately, majority of people wait until they hit rock bottom to do something about themselves and their health and their wellbeing.
• 32:19
  Brian: And, and I think that this is where we can, you know, not only take responsibility and be courageous.
• 32:27
  Brian: But also, you know, like, take back our power, because we are powerful and we can be well.
• 32:32
  Brian: We don't need to stay just unsurviving.
• 32:34
  Tracy: Yeah, society teaches us that, doesn't it?
• 32:38
  Tracy: Hey, I was just, I was just kind of smiling when you were talking because I remember that on that retreat, um, there was an image, there was a photograph that we took and you, in the photograph, you look like you're levitating.
• 32:50
  Tracy: Like, literally, we were all jumping and in the photograph, I wasn't jumping very high.
• 32:55
  Tracy: It looked like, I'll just say that I might have been coming back down to earth at that time, but you were way up in the air, you'd crossed your legs and you looked a bit like this character, this one here.
• 33:05
  Tracy: Yes.
• 33:05
  Tracy: And you were floating in the sky and as you were talking, I was taken back to that moment, you know, and it was like, yeah, there's Brian.
• 33:13
  Tracy: He's like, he's living his dream.
• 33:18
  Tracy: You know,
• 33:18
  Brian: it's, I, I, I, a few times looking at that photo, like, because, you know, since I was a teenager, I always had this thing of levitating knowing that like, I, I can do it, you know, it's not a, a thing that I'm like, uh, it's, it might happen like I might levitate or fly in the future, or, you know, I might be able to, to read someone's minds.
• 33:44
  Brian: Like I know these things already and most of the time I'm not able to do it.
• 33:49
  Brian: Because I get it my own way, of course.
• 33:52
  Brian: Um, but the power that we have and the untapped power that we have is amazing.
• 34:00
  Brian: One of my teachers, uh, he used to tell me all for human potential is in our blockages.
• 34:08
  Brian: If we release all of our blockages.
• 34:11
  Brian: We reach our human potential and the human potential is amazing.
• 34:17
  Brian: Like the things that we're able to actually do.
• 34:19
  Tracy: Well, if you get your human ness out of the way, right, we can do so many amazing things.
• 34:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 34:27
  Tracy: I'm going to see if I can find that picture and I'll put it up with this podcast.
• 34:30
  Tracy: If that's okay with you.
• 34:31
  Brian: Yeah, please.
• 34:31
  Brian: People could see.
• 34:34
  Brian: Yeah, it's a really cool one.
• 34:35
  Brian: But you know, it's, I think that there is this This really interesting thing that is taking place in FNAD.
• 34:44
  Brian: I have noticed it more and more in the last few years of understanding a lot of people like throughout the lockdowns and out of that time that was kind of, uh, a big shift, like with a lot of, you know, grief and a lot of sadness and a lot of different densities and as well, a lot of realizations for people of understanding I might live in the life that I want, you know, and a lot of people, you know, Started to actually go more towards the route of finding themselves again and reconnecting with themselves and going through different holistic perspectives to be able to to get to the place where they want to be able to understand, you know, they matter and They no longer want to live this unconscious life all of the time and they can actually do something amazing with their lives
• 35:41
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 35:42
  Tracy: I found there was such a big shift during that time.
• 35:46
  Tracy: Um, you know, some people, I personally enjoyed that time.
• 35:50
  Tracy: There was not a much more down, down time and more connection and family time.
• 35:55
  Tracy: Um, but there was a lot of, and, and I had the ability, because I was doing quite a bit of work online anyway, and I had taught myself how to, to, um, do constellations online.
• 36:05
  Tracy: And then all of a sudden, um, there was lockdown and Well, I had some tools that others didn't have.
• 36:12
  Tracy: So that gave me a little bit of an advantage in that time and people needed it.
• 36:17
  Tracy: It was needed at the time.
• 36:19
  Tracy: Right.
• 36:19
  Tracy: I did so much.
• 36:21
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:21
  Brian: I did so much online during that time.
• 36:23
  Brian: Like as the same as I'm, I'm so grateful that I'm able to actually do that and support people during that time.
• 36:31
  Brian: Because this, you know, This is one of the things that I usually tell people, really, like, except how perhaps, you know, the dynamic or the experience, the transformation that takes place during a healing session, a family constellation session, whether it is in person, whether it is online, whether it is in a group, whether it is one on one, All of it works, like everything can support transformation.
• 37:01
  Brian: Like I know this firsthand for me as a client.
• 37:04
  Brian: And I know this as a facilitator, like I have done all of it.
• 37:07
  Brian: People keep on asking me, you know, like, should I do a one on one?
• 37:11
  Brian: Should I do a group one?
• 37:12
  Brian: And I'm like, Just feel into it because the, really the difference there a lot of times is, okay.
• 37:19
  Brian: If we are in a group, there's more energies.
• 37:21
  Brian: So therefore, if you are more potentially, you know, quite empathetic and you're swallowing everyone's energies, or you get triggered easily when other people that are doing certain things, potentially a one on one session might be more conducive to feeling safe.
• 37:40
  Brian: Whereas.
• 37:40
  Brian: If you're, if you don't have any issues with, with that, or if you don't have any issues of sharing some of your personal things with a group of people, then potentially a group one is good.
• 37:55
  Brian: So, you know, I find a lot of times different people will need different things and at different times with different things and.
• 38:03
  Brian: Everything works.
• 38:04
  Brian: That's, that's the thing that for me it's like, it's so powerful.
• 38:08
  Brian: The field is everywhere.
• 38:10
  Brian: There's, you know, there's no separation now between us.
• 38:13
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 38:15
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 38:16
  Tracy: Do you do all of your workshops in English?
• 38:21
  Brian: No, I actually do, do in Spanish as well.
• 38:24
  Brian: And it's so interesting because I have found that even the times that I've had, Bye.
• 38:30
  Brian: Bye.
• 38:32
  Brian: English workshops and someone came that spoke in Spanish, a lot of times to go to the depths, they needed to say something in Spanish.
• 38:44
  Brian: There is something there that I think that it's so important in the way that we've been conditioned or how we experienced those experiences that have to do with our native tongue.
• 38:53
  Brian: And.
• 38:54
  Brian: So, you know, like I, I do some workshops in, in, in Spanish here in, in Auckland.
• 39:02
  Brian: When I go to Spain or when I go to the US or when I go elsewhere, I do more in Spanish because there's more people.
• 39:09
  Brian: Yeah.
• 39:09
  Brian: Um, but I do a, like actually a lot of my one-on-one work is in Spanish.
• 39:15
  Brian: And I think that potentially, like a lot of people here in New Zealand that speak in Spanish, they do a lot of one-on-one sessions with me potentially because they might feel more comfortable.
• 39:25
  Brian: Uh, with speaking in Spanish, all of these things instead of in English.
• 39:29
  Tracy: Yeah, I do, I often do, like, there are different exercises that I do and when it comes to talking to the parents or talking to the other person that's in, I will suggest to people that if English is not your first language, then please use the Translate this into your own, um, tongue.
• 39:47
  Tracy: So, and it is felt so much deeper, isn't it?
• 39:51
  Tracy: You know, I had, I think I had a French lady, a Japanese one, a German lady, and, um, Oh, I had a multitude of, and so they were all speaking in their own tongue at the same time as well.
• 40:03
  Tracy: You know, there was English speakers as well.
• 40:07
  Tracy: And even though the other people didn't understand, that was felt as their representatives, they were feeling the shift.
• 40:15
  Brian: Yeah, I actually had this, uh, in one of the last Constellation Circles that I did.
• 40:20
  Brian: Um, there was this woman and she started to say some things in Spanish because I noticed that some of the energy wasn't moving.
• 40:30
  Brian: So she was saying it in English.
• 40:32
  Brian: And then I suggested to say it in Spanish and the same, all of the representatives were like, and then they were like, I have no idea what you said, but I knew that because I felt it.
• 40:44
  Brian: And I think that that is powerful.
• 40:46
  Brian: And I think that this is, you know, one of the things as well that I have found that is so powerful about the constellation work is that Doesn't matter if we are witnessing, doesn't matter if we are representing, doesn't matter if we are working on our own topic, as in, uh, you know, during the, the, the workshop or the session.
• 41:09
  Brian: And all of those different, um, ways we are actually getting the benefit.
• 41:16
  Brian: And I thought this is something that I don't know how it's been for you, but it has taken a while for some people to understand that they can just come to a session and they don't have to work with their specific topic and they will still get a lot of value out of it.
• 41:33
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 41:34
  Tracy: Yeah, I get I have people that just come to my workshops to represent or resonate or hold space, whatever you want to call it.
• 41:40
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 41:42
  Tracy: Or, or just to witness sometimes they just want to sit back and witness.
• 41:46
  Brian: Yeah.
• 41:47
  Tracy: And they have said that for them, they get so much out of that.
• 41:51
  Brian: Yes.
• 41:52
  Brian: I also have, have some people that just come, come like that.
• 41:55
  Brian: And I actually, I had someone that, Came so many times and I think that after 20 times of being a representative, then they finally came to, to actually do a one on one session to work on their own topic.
• 42:11
  Brian: But it wasn't because they weren't ready.
• 42:13
  Brian: It was just because they loved just being there and there was nothing that, or it wasn't the right time perhaps to work on their specific topic.
• 42:23
  Brian: And, and I think that this is why it's so powerful.
• 42:28
  Tracy: And I sometimes find that, I remember when I was training, I'd be driving down to Auckland thinking about what it is that I wanted to work on.
• 42:35
  Tracy: And, but, and, you know, the first person that gets up and they, they virtually speak exactly what it was that I wanted to look at.
• 42:42
  Tracy: And I'm like, Okay, and then so I might have been in their constellation or, or just by witnessing it and then I'm thinking I don't think I need a constellation today and that's just dropped a whole lot of things, all my pennies have dropped for me and I'm good to go.
• 42:56
  Tracy: I'll just represent for the rest of the day.
• 42:57
  Tracy: You know, like, yeah,
• 42:59
  Brian: it's so magical when that happens.
• 43:01
  Brian: Like I had so many this happening so many times like ending the workshop and suddenly someone, you know, it's like, it was so amazing that I had this topic that I wanted to work on.
• 43:12
  Brian: And then I represented that.
• 43:14
  Brian: And this is one of the things that I'm fascinated by.
• 43:18
  Brian: I am following the energy.
• 43:21
  Brian: I'm following the field.
• 43:23
  Brian: I am not choosing, this is something that I keep on telling people, I am not choosing who is the person we're going to work with, who is representing what.
• 43:33
  Brian: The field is choosing that because the field knows who needs to actually represent that.
• 43:39
  Tracy: There
• 43:39
  Brian: is something in that representation or that resonating that is there for them.
• 43:45
  Brian: So, you know, I, I had so many times people that came the same with the, they wanted to actually work on a specific topic.
• 43:53
  Brian: And then after the first constellation, they're like, Oh, that's it.
• 43:58
  Brian: I already like, I already did that.
• 43:59
  Brian: So that's your thing, you know, and, and it's so fascinating.
• 44:04
  Brian: I had this, um, The other time, someone that, that came and, and I think that she wanted to work on a specific topic.
• 44:15
  Brian: Um, and, but she didn't mention anything, you know, we, we just started, she didn't say that she was interested in working on that or anything.
• 44:25
  Brian: And in four different constellations, she represented the same energy,
• 44:31
  Tracy: which
• 44:32
  Brian: was the same energy of what she was feeling stuck in her life.
• 44:37
  Brian: And it was interesting because.
• 44:39
  Brian: As a facilitator, I, of course, I'm, you know, I'm open and I'm trusting, and of course, like, my head is there still, and after the second time, like, on the third constellation, when I chose her to represent the same energy, I was like, you know, I just took a moment to be like, okay, you know, there's something here that needs to change.
• 45:02
  Brian: Because I'm still choosing her to do the same energy and then I was like, actually, uh, no, I need to trust that, you know, like there's a reason why I'm being led to bring her to actually represent that energy.
• 45:16
  Brian: And I think that, you know, that's once she then mentioned that I was like, oh yeah, that makes complete sense.
• 45:22
  Tracy: Oh, brilliant.
• 45:26
  Tracy: We're just about, we're coming to our, to our time.
• 45:28
  Tracy: It's just gone so fast.
• 45:29
  Tracy: It's so good to talk to you.
• 45:31
  Tracy: And, and just, you know, the field is just, it feeds my soul.
• 45:37
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 45:38
  Tracy: And I can hear the passion in your voice as well.
• 45:41
  Tracy: If people wanted to get hold of you, Brian, how would they find you?
• 45:45
  Brian: Uh, through my name, Brian Burniman, on social media, on my website, BrianBurniman.
• 45:52
  Brian: com.
• 45:53
  Brian: Uh, if they are in Oakland and they want to do stuff in person, I work from the Life Center in Ponsonby, which is a beautiful place, a beautiful, beautiful healing space where I do most of my, my workshops and, and as well, a lot of my one on one work.
• 46:12
  Brian: So, and if they are interested in doing online as well, just.
• 46:16
  Brian: My name, that's where you'll find me.
• 46:19
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 46:21
  Tracy: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come and share with us all here.
• 46:25
  Tracy: And yeah, we really look forward to, to seeing more constellations evolving in New Zealand.
• 46:34
  Brian: Yes.
• 46:34
  Brian: Thank you.
• 46:35
  Brian: Thank you for being,
• 46:36
  Tracy: thank you for being a part of, of sharing that with the community because I just see the, the ripple effects of this work and how, you know, we do a piece of work and how much it ripples out to our family and our community.
• 46:49
  Tracy: So thank you.
• 46:51
  Brian: Thank you.
• 46:51
  Brian: Thank you for, for creating the space.
• 46:53
  Brian: Thank you for.
• 46:54
  Brian: For helping to spread the word with, uh, with this podcast, with all of the work that you're doing with the immersives that, that you're creating.
• 47:03
  Brian: And yeah, let's keep on on sharing this because you know, this is for all of us, so let's do it.
• 47:09
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 47:10
  Tracy: All right.
• 47:11
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 47:12
  Tracy: Thank you listeners, and I hope you come and all received a nugget of wisdom out of this tonight.
• 47:19
  Tracy: And, um, yeah, enjoy and have fun