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Navigating Healthy Conflict - In Relationships & Divorce · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect with Claim and Liberation Podcast covering all things relationships, separation, and divorce.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself, supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: These are confidential conversations for you if you're never getting separation, divorce, or reorganizing life afterwards.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the war and tree people of the Kulman Nation and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to this week's episode of the podcast.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: In a recent episode, earlier episode, I talked about healthy conflict being a positive indicator of the overall health of the relationship and the likelihood of the relationship lasting, or at least weathering the more challenging seasons that a relationship moves through.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so today I'm going to expand on that even more deeply and really get into what healthy conflict looks like and how we can navigate conflict in our relationships in constructive ways to move through the conflict to a resolution.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you can use this information with your current partner, even with your ex-partner, although some of the language and some of the aspects, if you're using with an ex will need a bit of a tweak, but the basic information that I'm going to share will be useful.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can use it with your kids, you can use it with your family members.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So just think about that as you listen because the tips and the strategies that I'm going to share are tweakable, adjustable for all sorts of different relationships.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about healthy conflict and dialing down our emotional responses, reactions to connect and move through conflict in healthy ways.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now I wanted to open with this one tip because one couple I know has a single word, and theirs is I think something silly, it's something like cheesecake or kiwi fruit.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So acting like a circuit breaker.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my first red-hot tip.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Think about a word or a phrase that the two of you can use as your own personal circuit breaker.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Secondly, I just wanted to talk about what we call flooding.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: In Gottman therapy language, we use the word flooding and it's interchangeable.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's basically the fight, flight, freeze response.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's kicking in to that kicks in to protect us from a perceived threat.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if we feel unsafe, emotionally unsafe, or threatened in a conversation, then we can be activated, triggered, and if that escalates, as I said, in Gottman therapy language, we call it flooding.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll probably use those terms interchangeably when I'm speaking today.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fight, flight, or flooding, they're the same thing.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And as I spoke about on last week's episode of the podcast, uh creating emotional safety within our relationships, it's important for us to know and learn to recognize the early stages of that fight, flight, freeze response or the flooding response.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important to recognise the early signs, to know what it looks and feels like for ourselves and also for our partner, and to cut it off, to use some sort of circuit breaker.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm going to share a few phrases, sentences, ways you can do this that actually started as a curated resource I prepared for a client after a coaching call just last night.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And as I was doing it, I thought this is just too good not to share.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So here you go: some personally, privately curated responses that you can use when you notice your partner's being flooded or activated, and also when you are feeling that way.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Something along the lines of, hey, I'm noticing that you're activated, triggered, upset, whatever the word is.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do you need right now?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there anything I can do to help you feel safe, less upset, less triggered, what insert your word, so that we can have a more productive conversation.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Another way, do you need to take a break?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need to take some time out?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, research indicates that we need 20 minutes at least to recover or re-regulate our nervous system after we've been flooded, tipped into that fight, flight, freeze, for and response.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no point engaging or re-engaging any earlier than 20 minutes.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: It'll just escalate things again or further.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to talk about that more later on.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: But and also note that if a timeout is taken, there needs to be an assurance given that the other person will come back to the discussion and when they will.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Even if they come back just to say, Hey, I can't continue this tonight, but I will talk with you first thing in the morning about our next steps.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So timeout is fine, and also it needs to be at least 20 minutes, and also there needs to be reassurance about when you're coming back into re-engage.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Other things you can say might be something like, I hear that you're upset, I can hear in your voice, I can see that you're upset, and I know I've done something to cause that.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I did or said something that hurt you.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share a little bit more about that so we can get on the same page or I can understand or I can know how we can move through this together?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So recognizing when the other person is triggered or activated, upset, acknowledging it and offering to help repair or fix it.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: If it's you who's activated, you can say something like, I'm feeling really, you know, insert your emotion here.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling really angry, I'm feeling really upset, and I need to take a break.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll come back to you in half an hour, an hour tomorrow.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: You need to honor that timeline, as I said earlier, even if it's just to say I need more time, or to check in and say, I'm still too fired up to or activated to be productive here, I need a little bit more time.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Other things you might say, I need a moment to calm down, can we take a break and come back to this later?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling overwhelmed right now.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let's pause and talk when we're both a bit calmer.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting too upset to think clearly here.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can we take a break?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I need some time to cool off so I can be in a better place to respond.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let's, you know, let's revisit.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling really stressed, I need to step away, whatever it is.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: It can be as simple as, as I said earlier, holding up your hand and saying, can we take a break?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to make sure I'm fully present and available and ready for this discussion.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling flooded or I'm starting to feel flooded, I need some space, or you know, to for me to be able to engage here to respond constructively and in a healthy way, I need to take some space.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it sounds like for you, have them have them ready, and you can actually discuss them as a couple.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Have them ready, um, discuss them as a couple, know the language that works for each of you.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's with your ex, just have the phrases ready, you know, and trot them out, roll them out on an as-needs basis, but have three or four of them pre-prepared and know what it feels like in your body when you start first start to feel activated or triggered and use them then.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Don't wait until it's a full-blown overwhelm flood.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, moving on from what to say to actually creating emotional safety and dealing with conflict in healthy ways, here are my tips.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Learn to recognize the signs of flooding in yourself and in your partner.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: How do you react?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: How does your partner, ex-partner, friend, brother, mother, whatever it is, react?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: What does activation feel like in your body?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, the earliest signs.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So know what it feels like to be in full-on flood, but also step back incrementally and start to be able to recognize the early, early signs.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Heart rate and breathing are really good indicators.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Anything over a hundred beats per minute indicates that you're flooded.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's the technical definition, I suppose.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are other there are other components, but if you're if your heart rate goes over a hundred beats per minute, you're flooded.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: There are also your responses, you know, feeling defensive, feeling angry, feeling irritated, you can't listen or you can't hear what the other person is saying, you might raise your voice, your voice might tighten, or you might go quiet and not be able to speak.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, whatever the signs are for you, learn to recognize them and also learn to recognize them in the other person.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And yet that might be your partner or it might be your ex-partner because you might need to be the one to de-escalate it with your ex, with your co-parent, so that you can have a constructive conversation.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it might be you that has to say, hey, I'm noticing that you know this is getting a little bit heated.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: How about we pause and come back to it tomorrow?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's not always met, it's not always met well, if your ex is somebody who is used to engaging with you in that way, if it's a shift in your behaviour, if previously, you know, you pretty much went in for it and and had the had the argument, had the heated exchange, if you're shifting and changing that and showing up differently in um challenging conversations or conflict situations can be a bit activating.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So just be prepared for a pushback from them if it's you that is the de-escalator.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you can have a discussion and have an agreed way to stop the conversation, you know, it might be cheesecake or kiwi fruit, um, but have an agreed way to stop any conversation getting to the point where one or both of you is fully activated, fully flooded.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can use one of those phrases I offered up before.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Feeling activated, overwhelmed, flooded, angry, whatever, let's take a break.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling X, Y, or Z, and I think we need to leave this for another time when we're calmer.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'll come back to you in an hour and we can find another time.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So have that agreed way to stop the conversation, the circuit breaker.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Assure the other person that you'll be back.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Reassure them with a time frame so that they know you are a safe space, you are a safe person, you are creating emotional safety while still navigating something that's difficult, challenging, while still moving through conflict.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So agree on a time that you'll return to the conversation, and it needs to be when you're both ready.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: If the things I'm talking about in this podcast episode are resonating with you and you want to explore deeper support with me, you can book a free intro call via the link in the show notes.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can also sign up for the wait list for my group coaching program, Decide and Thrive, so you will be first to know when I next launch that program.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Stepping out, taking your time out is not an excuse to avoid dealing with the issue.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an opportunity just to shut down and close the door on the conversation.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is an opportunity to dial down your own reactivity, your nervous system, regulate yourself, and come back in so that you can move through the conversation, through the conflict in a healthy way to resolution.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Agree on a time to return to the conversation or at least check in with one another to gauge each other's readiness to re-engage.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Take time apart to allow your body and your physiology to return to normal.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: As I said earlier, the research shows that you need at least 20 minutes to come back from an emotional flooding or event or a fight-flight phrase response.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So take the time and take the time physically apart.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Move apart from one another, and that gives you the opportunity, both of you, to self-soothe, to regulate your nervous system, to dial yourself back down.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So do something that you find soothing or calming or regulating to dial things down.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Give yourself a hug, have a shower or a bath, go for a walk, go for a run, listen to some music, meditate, breath work.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Slow, deep rhythmic breathing works really, really well.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: It helps fight flight freeze or flooding is also called amygdala hijack.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to go into all the details of it, but slow rhythmic breathing works really well to bring our brain, to calm our brain down and bring us out of amygdala hijack.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So taking some slow deep breaths, breathing slowly in and out, you know, maybe watching your belly or your chest rise and fall, or box breathing, where you say breathe in for a count of four, hold for a count of four, breathe out for a count of four, pause for four.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Simple way, you can do it anywhere, and it helps bring you out of an emotional hijack, an amygdala hijack.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: While you are in this time out space, it's really important to also disengage from unhelpful thoughts, spiral thinking.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and this can be hard if you're someone who ruminates and replays and rehashes conversations.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: It can be really, really hard, but it's important.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can use distraction, whatever it is that takes you into a state of flow can be helpful.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: As as I said earlier, with just timeout, generally, um, exercise is helpful, cold is helpful, um, but focus on something else rather than just rehashing and ruminating.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: See if you can find something else that you can use strategically to pull you out of that spiral thinking.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because replaying the conversation, replaying the wounding words, the things you said, the things they said, blaming your partner, staying angry, rehashing it, thinking over and over about what was said and done, what you should have said or should have done, what you wished you'd said, just locks you in to that flooded or activated state.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be helpful to ask yourself again, okay, what do I need right now?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: It can also be really helpful to, if you're really angry with the other person, really upset by them, really hurt by them, to, and it's and it's a trusting, healthy, loving relationship, but you're just in conflict.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: What do I know that is good and true about my partner?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can use it with your ex, you know.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: What is good and true about this other person?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to depend on your relationship with your ex, right?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: But what do I know that is good and true about my partner?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Think about the qualities, their positive qualities, the reasons you're in a relationship, the things you like about them, the reasons you value them.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe reflect on shared experiences, good times, fun experiences, their strengths, what they bring to the relationship, what you like and love and respect about them.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: It can help you trick your brain out of that rumination.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then also flip the lens on you.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's really easy to tip into victimhood or self-blame after an argument or when you're activated.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very easy.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So ask yourself, what do I need right now and what do I know that is good and true about myself?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Recognize and acknowledge, as you did with your partner or the other person, your strengths, your positive traits, the contributions you've made to the relationship, and not to one-up yourself over the other person, just simple acknowledgement.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Contributions you make, the things you bring to the relationship, qualities, experiences, all the things, right?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: It can just help to bring yourself to a more balanced perspective.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: It helps dial your brain activity down, yes, but also bring a more balanced perspective.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Helps calm your emotions, regulate your nervous system, and then you can be open to a more constructive conversation.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that can be really useful once you're calm, once you've self-soothed, once you've dialed yourself down and regulated your nervous system, is to make an effort or an offering, I suppose, really, to calm and soothe your partner.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: So once you've regulated your nervous system, you've brought yourself out of a flooded or activated state, it can be really healing and create emotional safety to reconnect and make a bid.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Make an effort to help your partner feel calm and to help them soothe.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: It creates emotional safety.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe it's a hug or some other type of physical touch, maybe it's soothing or reassuring words.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: If necessary, it might be a I'm sorry that happened to us, I'm sorry I said that, I'm sorry I did that, what can I do to make you feel better?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do to make you feel seen, heard, loved?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Bearing in mind that they need to be in a somewhat regulated space for you to be able to offer this.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can also discuss it and decide in advance what you would each prefer in this type of situation because you're going to activate one another, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: What would be soothing to your partner and vice versa?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Have options for each of you.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can then ask your partner more specifically, would you like a hug?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready for a hug now?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to re-engage?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: What do you need from me?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Revisit the conversation only when you both feel calm and ready.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, as I said earlier, physiologically, to bring yourself out of a flooded state, you need at least 20 to 30 minutes.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: But this will vary.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: It'll vary between individuals and it'll vary depending on the activating or triggering experience, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It might be something small that you're able to regulate and bring yourself down within 20 minutes, but you know, more significant arguments or conflicts can actually take longer.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll vary between the two of you, and it'll vary between experiences.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So test and see, check in with yourself, check in with your partner.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Am I ready?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Are they ready?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: You both need to need to feel calm, you both need to feel regulated to re-engage, or the conflict will escalate again and likely escalate further.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important to wait until you're ready, yes, but also your partner is ready, or the other person is ready to re-engage.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: You might be ready to re-resume the conversation in half an hour or an hour, and they need several days or longer before they're ready to resume the conversation.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure both of you are regulated and ready to return and revisit the conversation.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Also, really important to have a recovery conversation after the argument, to have a reconnecting experience.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not to reignite the argument, rekindle the fight or rehash it at all.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is important in terms of creating emotional safety and moving through conflict in healthy ways, moving through.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right to the end.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's an opportunity to focus on each other, to reconnect, to repair after hurt, harm, and it's about listening to each other's perspective, it's about restoring the emotional safety, it's about being a safe space for each other again, restoring the emotional safety, reconnecting, building goodwill between the two of you.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a resolution of the argument, yes, but it's a restoration of intimacy.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be a conversation, it probably needs to be a conversation in really healthy conflict resolution, and then there can be a physical component to whether that's hug, kiss, sex, whatever, restore the intimacy between you, come back together in an emotionally safe way.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, this is a reminder from me to you that if flooding, high degrees of activation, being tipped into fight flight freeze, amygdala hijack, whatever you want to call it, continues to be a big part of your relationship, it's something that you need to look at and address.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because when when we are flooded, when we're activated regularly, it can tip one or both of you into an emotional shutdown withdrawal response.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You become numb or immune to the hurt by shutting down, but that shutdown triggers and activates the other person, and also the hurt and the pain is still there.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're just shutting down from it.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's still there, it's still impacting, it's still doing damage.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you struggle to self-soothe, to regulate, to dial down or activation, calm down, then withdraw to protect yourself.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: That shutting down makes the other person or your partner feel emotionally unsafe, and they in turn feel more activated, so it becomes a vicious cycle.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Their heart rate increases, they causing them to flood, which escalates the conflict.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it becomes this vicious cycle.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: So my reminder to you is that if this is part of your relationship pattern, learning ways to self-soothe both of you, self-soothe and then reconnect in healthier ways is going to be critical in healing your relationship.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So each of you, both of you, need to take radical personal responsibility, responsibility for your part of the process.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: You will activate one another at times, you will get angry or upset or cur or hurt each other at times.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And knowing how to heal that is really important and powerful.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And also knowing your partner's triggers as you do, nobody knows your partner as well as you do.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to guess that you know what activates and triggers them as they do you.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's your responsibility not to use those triggers, not to push the buttons.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Intentionally using your partner's triggers or them using yours, intentionally activating them or pushing them into a fight-flight-flooding response is not building trust.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not building an emotionally safe or healthy relationship.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, it's your responsibility to do your best to protect your partner from being triggered.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Just because you know how to activate or trigger them doesn't mean you need to.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they should extend you the same courtesy and respect.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, in closing, being able to move through conflict in healthy ways, being able to disagree and then move through that disagreement to resolution and reconnection is vital for forming a healthy, emotionally safe relationship.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you use these tips and suggestions and thoughts in your current relationship with your ex-partner, as I said earlier, or when you're moving into a new relationship, building your capacity to regulate your own nervous system, building your capacity to recognise when someone else is activated and to use circuit breakers is really, really important.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: As always, thanks for being here.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that you have gained something from this episode.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know someone who would also gain from listening to it, I would love you to share it with them.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.