Latest / The Weight of Fire / Episode 4 "Shawn Sams"

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Episode 4 "Shawn Sams" · The Weight of Fire

• Episode 4 Audio: Every fire needs fuel. Every wall needs to come down before what's underneath can breathe. This is the way to fire. Faith, fitness, and conversation. Featuring common people with uncommon stories. Every episode we're going to bring someone new. First we sweat because something happens when you're tired and honest at the same time. The wall comes down, and that's when the real conversation starts. About faith, about God, about the job, and about the why behind it all. I'm your host, Tiago, and this is the Way to Fire. Let's get to work. And here we are again, guys, another episode of the Way to Fire podcast. most of you guys already know, we did the first part of our podcast, the part that most guests truly enjoy and love to their core. We went out there in the gym and we got a quick workout in. We got a sweat on and we let all those barriers come down. And then we switch, we flip the script, we come in here, and we do we have a little bit of a conversation, just a one-on-one across the table, a couple drinks, just good two good old friends, just having a normal conversation, common people with some uncommon stories. And the dude that I have here today is no one less than Battalion Chief Sean Sams. Very, very formal, very important man. But to me, I was with this dude when he was just a firefighter. I witnessed this guy grow throughout his career, and it's been an honor to me to see this. And has been a mentor for me most of my career. Sean has been in the fire service for 20 years. He was born and raised in South Florida in Homestead. he has two brothers, Craig and Scott. Probably be talking about Scott a little bit since that's his twin brother. and then he married his wife 20 years ago as well. Jessica Sams. They have two wonderful kids, Lincoln Sams and Hadley Sam's. And we'll probably be digging up on some stories about him. Cause again, another dude that I look up heavily, especially when it comes to a lot of his personal stuff. So before we give the mic to Sean, before we start our episode, you guys know what we do here. We're gonna start with a prayer. We're gonna let God God guide us throughout most of this episode. And I'm gonna lead us through a quick prayer. And then I'll pass the mic over to you. All right, brother. Sounds great. All right. So, dear God, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, we come here today and we ask you just to guide us through this conversation. We thank you for the opportunity to come together to spare a little bit of time and spare a little bit of our thoughts, our history, our goods and our bads, just to try to impact one person out there. We believe that what we're doing here is and will still continue to be for you and only you. For that we pray today. In the name of Jesus, amen. Amen. Hi, Sean Diggity. Hey, hey. Take it over from us, bro. Tell us a little bit about yourself. All right. like T mentioned, born and raised in South Florida, homestead to be exact. That's the last exit for the Keys in case somebody does not up on their geography. Mm-hmm. lived down there for 18 years with my parents and two brothers. graduated high school. South Aid, a little shout out to South Aid, known for wrestling, in case anybody's wondering. So you're a wrestler? I was never a wrestler. baseball player, but they were state champs wrestling, I think, every year since I've been there. Well, I think they still are. they are a phenomenal wrestling school. Awesome. Some great football players came out of South Aid as well. but graduated from South Aid, immediately went to the University of Central Florida, got my four-year degree there. from my four-year degree, wanted to work for the federal government, had aspirations. It's a whole other story in itself. Didn't work out. Nothing that I did wrong. I don't have any crazy background or anything like that. But for whatever reason, God's plan, if you will, things turned out differently. It shifted into fire school, shifted into the fire side of things, which is kind of ironic because we had no firefighters in my family, but we do have all my mom's brothers and sisters, or brothers for sure. they're police officers. wow in Washington, D.C. So we do have officers. side in our family, but no firefighters. Anyways, went to fire school, got a job at a Califire rescue, the rest is history. met my wife in high school, high school sweethearts. been married now for 20 years. We have two beautiful kids, Hadley and Lincoln. And life is pretty charming right now. Awesome dude. Yeah, we're in a good spot. Awesome. So let's take it back a little bit to your upbringing, right? that's where it all started. So grew up in Sa Homestead, South Florida, right? Correct. so let's talk about your twin brother and yourself. How did that all Okay, this very interesting story, and that's a this is a really good place to jump in. So a fun fact about me is I was actually adopted. There's probably a handful of my close friends for sure know this and maybe some people that have been in the fire department for a while. they kind of know the background maybe a little bit, but there's sure there's quite a few that don't know that fact about me. And it's a very interesting one because my parents wanted to have kids forever. medically, for medical reasons, they weren't unable to have kids. It was causing a lot of stress on them, their relationship. both of them, you know, kind of were blaming themselves for that. ultimately the to keep a long story short, they ended up by the suggestion of friends and and close family and stuff like that. they were suggested to go on vacation, take a break from everything. They'd been trying to have kids for several years. So they jumped on a plane, they were actually going to Hawaii. while they were in Hawaii they had or before they left for Hawaii, they had registered to maybe adopt kids and everyone who's adopted kids knows it's a very long process. Grueling process takes a very long time to do. You have to be very heavily screened background for for obvious reasons. jumped on the plane. As soon as they landed in Hawaii, they got a phone call saying that, hey, there is two identical twins that just came up for adoption. Would you be interested in having them? And the rest is history. They stayed their time in Hawaii. That vacation that they had, you know, obviously it was not what they planned because of that exciting news for them. Yeah. But it's it's one of those crazy stories where you think that you were trying so hard to make something happen for so long, and then when you stopped trying, you went on vacation, man, it just fell into your lap like there's not one, but there's two kids. Would you be interested in taking both kids? And phenomenal story. So I d I guess maybe a week old, I couldn't tell you the exact date. A week old, maybe a little less than that. my biological parents gave us up. My mom and dad, Heidi and Al Sam's adopted us. and lo and behold, we were really lucky. Another interesting fact, I have another brother, Craig, two and a half years younger than us. Biological mom also put Craig up for adoption and her request was that the parents that took the twins be given first chance to take Craig as well to keep them to keep the three of us together. So as biological brothers, she wanted all of us to stay together. My parents obviously happily agreed, and so the three of us Yeah. It's a pretty crazy story. circumstances obviously could have been dramatically different. Like we may never have known that we had a brother Craig. We may have obviously everything could have changed. So really interesting story, really cool piece of information about me. and one thing why I think that's important is a lot of that has changed my or given me a different perspective on lots of things that happened in life. I think it makes you more accepting of certain circumstances, makes you more aware of there may be things that you have no idea that people are going through, battling, all those sorts of things that man, you you just don't know the background. You don't know anything and again, everybody has their own story and there's there's certain things that shape you as a person, as as somebody, and I think that that definitely that background and my upbringing, my story there with that sense, definitely has influenced the way that I I look at certain certain things in a good way. Your perspective? Yes, absolutely. So they adopted the two of you. Correct. Two and a half years go by. Yes. And they get another phone call. Correct. Were they still in the system to get a another kid? no, I don't even think that they were really you know, actively pursuing another kid. but it was just one of those things where it was Kate out of the blue, as far as I know, Pate that the mom has asked if if you'll keep the brothers together. Wow. And they jumped on it. They they loved it. They loved the idea and you know, we're Together. Wow, that's phenomenal. Yeah, it's pretty neat. definitely one of those things where it's like, wow, that's that's really cool. Did your parents ever try to hide from you guys the fact that you guys were adopted or they wait until a certain age? It's a great question. because that that would have to be I could imagine that would be very difficult. or put you in a spot maybe would be very difficult from when they thought that we could understand maybe the circumstances, so pick your age, you know what I mean? I don't know when that would be. I'm just going at like I'd look at my kids right now, sometimes they forget Their shoes walking out of the door, you know what I mean? and we're going to school or something like that. but at some age they let us know that we were adopted, they explained the whole process to us, and they always let us know that if at any time you want to try and seek out or find your biological parents, we'll be more than happy to pay any amount of money to try and make that happen. Well, go anywhere, do anything. and our stance with this always was: like, I have nothing against my biological mom and dad giving us up. I I think it's great that they did that because there's lots of other options that that you could have taken, it could drastically. Have shifted everything for me. but my as far as I'm concerned, my mom and my dad is my mom and dad. Yeah. I I don't need to go search for anybody. I would openly welcome a conversation if if they showed up and knocked on my door, I'd be more than happy to talk to them. And I would, you know, openly have a conversation with them and it'd be neat to meet them, but I I will never seek them out. I I don't I don't feel the urge to do it. Wow, dude. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's just a perspective. You probably never felt like there wasn't a void that needed be filled either, right? probably for your parents. No, absolutely not. And that's one of the things that I think makes my life and my my brother's life such a a blessing in a way is that again, things could have been drastically different from us, to us, for us, and especially being in the career we are now. Like you we go into people's homes all the time and you see circumstances or situations where kids are and it's like, whoa man, that's that's a pretty rough thing to have to overcome. My upbringing was the complete opposite. When I say that we had everything that you could possibly need, we were giving everything that to be successful, we had all they were present in every aspect of our life. So it was an unbelievable upbringing for my mom and dad. It was fantastic. we were when I say you know, had everything, I don't we were not millionaires by any means. My dad was a middle school science teacher. My mom worked for the VA hospital all the way up into the fact that or all the way up into the point where she adopted us and then she became a stay at home mom slash she did some nursing. Okay. But I mean, again, we weren't definitely weren't rolling in the dough, but we absolutely had everything that we needed to be successful. We were taught everything, and there was no limit to what what we were capable of doing by just the upbringing that they allowed us to So your mom was in the medical field at least a little bit. Yes, she was. Did she know anything about firefighting or anything like that? Like any influence in you? No. So again, nobody nobody in my family at all had anything to do with firefighting. We really didn't even know what it was, but I will say this: our best friend, ironically, Growing up. His dad was a fire captain for Miami Day Fire Rescue. Okay. And at the time we were over at his house, our best friend's house, maybe every other weekend or whatever it was, we would constantly we were big into sleepovers and stuff like that back then. but the dad, I can remember coming home, like he would be coming off shift and he would show up. We'd we had spent the night and he would come home and then he would be there in the morning, and then he would always be taking the, you know, the three of us, his son and my brother, my twin brother and myself, you know, out to do things. Like it was just like wow, how is this dad home on a weekday? But it never dawned on me, you know, at that age, like what's going on. I just knew he was a fire captain at you know, By Me Date Fire Rescue. Yeah. but that is really the only contact that I ever had with anyone in the fire department. And I I don't even think I ever visited a fire station, to be honest with you. I saw the trucks, I liked the trucks, they looked cool. And like the guys, you always look up to the firemen, you know what I mean? Yeah. Kind of see them like, man, those dudes look cool. But you wanted to work in the government, so you had a sense of serving in your heart. absolutely. Yes. I thought the and this is gonna sound really weird, I was always drawn to obviously criminal justice to crime shows, I really enjoy those. my favorite classes that I ever took were actually like serial murder classes. I don't want this to sound kind of creepy or anything, like It doesn't at all. Yes. Like I'm hunting down serial killers or anything like that. but I really enjoy like, you know, this is the silence of the lambs. I like any of those movies that are are, you know, talking about that stuff always enjoyed that. ironically enough though, criminal justice and I wish we had known this when you went to college, this is one thing that if there's any colleges out there you can, you know, maybe Tighten this up a little bit. I went I went to school thinking criminal justice that would be the degree that you're looking for to maybe one of those fields. And it's actually the opposite. They're looking for at the time when we interviewed for the FBI and we put in applications and stuff, they wanted accountants. They wanted specific degrees that were not criminal justice for those things, which is kind of the opposite of what you would think. Like when I think of those fields, I think of literally law enforcement, I think of all those things. Well, that's I chose criminal justice thinking that would lead me. There, it's not that it's a a mark on you, but it's just not what they were particularly looking for at the time. so again, criminal justice obviously could funnel into police work of all sorts of stuff. And again, it wasn't a a red mark, but it just wasn't a need that they had. My degree wasn't something that they was like kind of movie to the top of the list. Probably over overly saturated. I'm sure. Everybody had that same mentality, right? They probably need this. Let me go get this, let me again there's also probably I assume there's a little bit of misleading in the movies, you know what I mean? I'm gonna go be a crime fighter and kick open the doors and I'm hunting killers. That's not what the FBI is doing. You know, now that I'm older, of course, you you see that you're like, Yeah, you're chasing down criminals in a different different way. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Ver very cool, dude. What about so growing up with a twin brother that had to be it had to be very unique but at the same time a whole different set of challenges as well, no? Yes, it was so I would say mostly to be honest with you, it was really cool. Like and and I say this in a way because you're you're me and my twin brother Scott were our best that's my best friend. Mm-hmm. I always has been my best friend. our younger brother Craig were extremely close. We were brought up as a family like that. Family comes first, family is everything. the relationship that me and my twin brother have is different than the one that I have with my two and a half year old brother Craig. like there's no way that you could explain that bond to somebody I don't think. unless you're an identical twice. now I was saying I don't feel his pain. You know what I mean? Nothing crazy like that. You hear that kind of nonsense all the time. There's probably somebody out there. Nothing creepy? Yeah, nothing creepy. Yeah. So you know I don't I can't see what he's seeing or you know, none of that. I haven't experienced that, let me put it that way. But we had a lot of fun and believe it or not in school. Like and and I can remember this specifically one time this instance we were in separate classes all the way up until second grade. It's somewhere in second grade we decided we were going to switch classes. It was the classic hey, let's see if we can pull it off. I mean when again now that we're older, like listen, I'm we look a little we look enough ab different, especially if you get to know us where you can tell us apart. But when we were younger, like man, we there's some pictures that I see of myself and even I'm like, hmm, let me take a look at this. I gotta stare at this picture a little bit. Like that's pretty we're pretty similar. But we switched classes and the reason we got caught is because we threw a paper airplane to each other. So go back to like second grade and you're sitting like however they have you split up in the classes or whatnot, and maybe my class is here, his classes are there, and for some reason we decided to throw a paper airplane. And this paper airplane said something like, We're we're pulling it off or something. I don't know, whatever it was. We've committed the perfect crime. Yes. but we get caught. From that day forward we were in the same class for the rest of our entire school career. So all the way up through high school, we had the same classes every single time. So that's what they thought would fix the punishment? I guess so. I guess that was and I don't know if that was maybe in my parents a little bit. Maybe the school also was like, hey, we're not going to do this. They're going to be in the same classes. but that worked out well for us as well. Absolutely. Are you kidding me? my gosh. It made it really easy because it's like, hey did you you know have you worked on the homework yet? Have you done this yet? Have you done this? Okay you tackle that I'll tackle this we'll we'll meet in the middle somewhere. So it all that did was bring us closer together. It didn't matter to us. It wasn't like we were trying to avoid each other. It was like, hey, this is something to do. It was fun. you know, and we were always it made it really easy. Yeah. Yeah. Loved it. Loved having an identical twin. Yeah, like for us in so I did most of my high school in Brazil and in Brazil, there is really no you do this class here, you do that class there. You have One teacher and that teacher teaches you most of the disciplines, right? So it was if my brother was on twelfth grade, there was no way I was having any classes with my brother. So then when we moved to the US and there's a chance that you get it there was a there was class that it was me, my brother, and my sister in the same class. my gosh, yeah. My goodness, I I thought that was the coolest thing ever. You know what I'm saying? I was like, so I couldn't imagine from second grade on having 'cause that just brings comfort to you, right? Like a hundred percent. Like I know I always know somebody. Yeah. Like, hey, where are you sitting? right next to Scott. Where are you sitting? the teacher, we need you to just split up. No, it's alphabetical order, remember? Sam's in Sam's we're good. Like there's no way that it's not gonna work. Yeah. Yeah. So he's a double double edged sword for them, like, you pick your poison. Yeah, win win. Yes, absolutely. Did you guys were you guys heavily involved in sports? Yes. Played sports our entire life growing up. this is gonna bother you. Probably the one sport we never played was soccer. and it was just because at the time I True athletes, yeah. Yeah. Yes. So baseball obviously was always our number one. Like we've been playing baseball since we're probably three, four years old, I don't know what it was. our dad would get home from school and I can vividly remember just going over they had this for lack of a better word, this like tube almost of just all kinds of sporting equipment. There would be golf clubs, baseball bats, whatever. It was just in there, it was nonsense. But I can remember one day we we pulled out a wiffle ball bat. It was that classic yellow skinny wiffle ball bat. Asked her dad, hey, what was this? You know, he told us it was baseball, and from that point on every day he got home from school, Dad, grab your stuff, we're going to play baseball in the backyard. And he without a doubt, didn't matter what was going on, I take it back, outside of if the traffic lights were off on his drive home from Palmetto Middle School, which is thirty-five minutes, he would come home, he would take a knee, pick up this is crazy. He would take a knee, pick up the dial up phone and call the traffic people to let them know that the lights are bad timing. timing and it took him forty five minutes to get home. so they weren't out, they're just a timing didn't match up for him. And he thought that that was the most important thing and his civic duty was to call and let know that the the traffic lights were off the key and they needed to get someone on immediately. But right after that we were outside playing basically He would go to the door, tell you boys, hold on a second, let me make a phone call. And then he would, you know, take a knee at the couch and we're like, Well, are the traffic lights? Yes, but that was the that was a really funny memory that I have vividly. That's so awesome. How competitive were you guys playing sports? Well, very competitive. I mean to the point where I can remember this another story, and you know some of my cousins, Jimmy and Tom, and then we've heard them and their stories or whatever. They would come down and play, and I can remember one time but the my dad was always the pitcher, like the universal pitcher, and then you split up in teams of two, three, whatever it is to make even teams. And I remember one time a ball got hit, I think it hit my dad in the head. a plastic wiffle ball. Nobody asked how it's you it was one of those things where like, yeah, that would sting, but it didn't hurt. Yeah. Well, no one asked my dad about whether he was okay, this and that. It was just screaming, get the ball, get the ball. You know, I mean looking back you're like, my gosh, like were we that competitive? Yes, we were that competitive. Always. Yeah. Did you guys were you guys competitive more with each other? Were you guys more competitive like when your cousins came over with anybody else on the team? What was it? no, not it was never really with each other, I would say. Me and Scott were always kinda I think we always considered ourselves a team. Yeah. It's weird because I'm like and I and this is goes back to like this is poor Craig. Craig would always be not the odd man out, but he was always the one that was like, Okay, it's me and Scott, Craig you grab the other friend. It was never me and Craig or Scott and Craig. It was always it's Scott and Sean and Craig. You're you're on your own. You gotta find somebody. Yeah. Like and you know, most of the time, like we had been playing baseball for so long that me and Scott are pretty formidable. Like especially especially with the wiffle ball realm, you know, we're whiffle ball kings. but now, you know, but at the time it was really funny. But yes, never with I would never say with that me and Scott were ultra competitive. but against anybody else absolutely we're super competitive. We're trying to win. Yeah yeah At all costs. How did that make your brother feel? Did you guys ever had those conversations later on or No, I don't know. It never really came up. I think it was all love. Craig knew that. we used to pick on him. We used to just crawl in his room, try sneak under his bed and scare him. All the nonsense that you do as brothers, yeah. but we were still Craig was still one of us. Like nobody's similar to the fire station, listen, we can pick on the new guys, but no one else is gonna pick on the new guys type deal. It was that way with Craig. Like, listen, if we had okay, first pick is Scott, my second pick is Craig. Yeah. Like there was again. that family was first. It was always brought up that way. We always kept it that way. Well you just have him he had he had a big brother, like you guys were doing big brother things. The only problem is it was times two. Every big brother thing, right? That's times two. Times two the well and the odd thing about that is Craig is our big little brother. You've met Craig before. Craig is your size. I'm for everybody out here, I'm five foot six, we're hundred and eighty pounds. Craig towers over us. Craig has always been bigger than us. So it was us two versus our little big brother Craig. So yeah, he could hold his own. You guys jump on each other's shoulders and Absolutely. Tag team of one take the knees, one take chest. A hundred percent. It was the double team every time. Top ropes. All right, so before we move on with this, did you so did you how did did you grow up in a household that had a lot of faith in it, had a the were believers. How were your parents with their faith? Okay, so that's a that's a great question. My mom was raised Catholic her whole life. So my mom was practicing Catholic. I'm not quite sure about my dad. I know he's Christian for sure. the thing that drove actually drove my mom away from the Catholic church is when my dad was my dad was previously married. Married in like when I say you got to we've got a pretty quick divorce, I think if I remember the story correctly, the Catholic Church would not marry my mom in the Catholic Church because my dad had been divorced. So it forced my mom to go away from the Catholic Church, but they've always been, you know, believed in in Jesus, all that stuff. So we were raised as Christians, first sh said prayers every you know, made sure that we said our prayers before we went to bed at night, all the stuff. but we were more holiday went to church on holidays, not a religious every Sunday type thing. It wasn't until that I met my now wife Jessica in high school. One day she invited me to go to church and my parents never stopped us from going. If our friends asked us to go to church, like 'cause they did. Like I can remember Craig was going to church like, you know, nine, ten years old. I would be branching out, going to church. Scott might go to church with a friend. So we were always we were constantly going to church, but w wasn't necessarily as a family. Yeah. but when I met Jessica, Man, I was in Catholic church probably since I met Jessica, so go back 'Cause I got married twenty years ago, about Jessica in tenth grade. So it was from tenth grade on I said I've been going to Catholic Church. like you guys in high school you guys were going she was inviting me she would invite me every Sunday to go with her family to St. Louis Catholic Church down south and every Sunday I would go. Was that mandatory for you to I don't think it was mandatory. Hold her hand? No, I didn't hold hands. No, I didn't didn't do that. that's another funny story. and I don't know if we have to we have time for this, right? Plenty of time, yeah. Yeah. So when I first met Jessica, when I first asked Jessica gonna be my girlfriend. I'll never forget this. We had my dad drive us from baseball practice. I had I had bought flowers for her to ask her to be my girlfriend. And I bought flowers for her, but we had baseball practice right after school. Mm-hmm. And something happened where I I didn't see her. Like so I was carrying these flowers with me and I had them in my locker. Well Jessica went home, we had baseball practice, so four hours go by. I told my dad, hey, I need to need to drop these flowers off in my you know my Jessica's house. Dad asked her to be my girlfriend. He's like, sure, no problem. So we jump in the back of my dad's. He had a 1949 pickup truck, fully restored, whatever. So I'm in the back, we've got one of our friends with us, my brother Scott's with us. Jump out, and I've never met Jessica's parents, the dad, whatever. Well, Jessica's dad, Fred, is mowing the grass as a shirt off. He's he's relative. relatively built, got a handlebar mustache, which I've, you know, never seen that in my life. very intimidating. Like and he's he's on the lawnmower. He's got the earplugs in, he's got the eye pro the protection, everything. Well, I go up to him and ask him and I said hey is you know your daughter home Jessica got some flowers I'd like give her and he doesn't say anything. He just puts the lawnmower and drive and puts engages the blades again and drives off. Zero, like I was like, well I guess this is kind of over I'm not doing this. Well then the mom comes out. Yeah. And the rest is history. Julie's like, Come on in, very welcoming like she's like, Don't just ignore Fred, blah blah blah blah. But Fred and it's funny now because I love Fred. Their family is fantastic, unbelievably great for me and again, I've known them for geez, so if I was I don't know how old I would have been, I guess, had these probably since I was fifteen, known Jessica's family. And at the same time been going to church. Always very welcoming to me. So been great. But they're the ones who kind of really Jessica definitely spearheaded everything that has to do with my religious beliefs and everything with that. That's just all Jessica. Jessica. Absolutely. And still to this day with our family. She's the she's the leader of that, making sure that we play baseball. We're we're very busy on the weekends with sports everything. we never miss Sunday church though. Like we don't well I shouldn't say we never miss Sunday church. We don't miss church. Jessica if we have baseball games on Sunday, then we're going to church Saturday night. If we are playing on Saturday night, then we're if our games are or if our games are on Sunday like say in the afternoon, we're going to church in the morning. We'll go find a cat Catholic Church wherever we're at. Yeah. we don't that we she has made that a priority, and it is it's awesome. We love doing it. It's actually become something really neat for us to do is travel around and everywhere we go. Like even when we went to Hawaii, you just to see a different church. Just to go inside like J Washington, DC. Like we've been to all these different churches, and it's like the the churches are all different, they're beautiful in their own way, but the the word is always the same. Yeah, the the so that's really neat. The message, right? Yes, the message, absolutely. Yeah, that's awesome. Your kids now enjoy going to church. They Yes. they love it. Like Hadley is and it's funny because well Hadley really has really taken off and she's really dove into it. she does a lot of the youth groups. She had a youth group on Friday night. She goes on over the summer she does trips with the the youth groups. They'll go to Georgia. she's done several of those. but she's very, very involved in it and and Lincoln actually really, really enjoys it too. And as a family it's something that we we look forward to every Sunday and it's it's something that keeps us grounded and it's consistent. Yeah. And it's it's always a great a great message in a world that man if we all realize man stuff seems to be crumbling around you. One thing that's consistent is inside the church. Yeah. Like that's always that's always positive. Yeah, like it's just a place for where you share where you f number one you step in you feel good, right? Absolutely. And I think you step out of it, I think you feel even better. You do. You know what I'm saying? So I think it's weird. There's no way to explain it. Have a way. I believe it's God, right? God just touching our heart. He just He heals things that He doesn't see that's getting healed, that we don't see that's getting healed, but He's working on the background. So for me, I did that too. I went through a stint where we didn't go to church at all. Like Samantha is very new to the church life. But then we decided to dive back in because of our kids. I think that was the main thing. Obviously, other health events. kicked up but it was mainly because I wanted I grew up in church. I've been involved in church heavily my entire life, but I wanted my kids to experience a little bit of positivity, a place where it feels safe where you go in feeling good and you leave feeling even better. So for us church has been such a blessing. Yeah no I was asking about your parents because it's Borderline a miracle, right? How they got a hold of all three of you guys. That that's phenomenal so I don't know if they had that i any impact on their faith when I think and they never went away. It's not like they turned away from the church when I say that I don't want to mislead people. they they've always gone like my parents have been going to a different it's just they went away from the Catholic church. They've been going to a different mom still goes to church here. They went to church in Cocoa Beach, they found one that they really loved, they enjoyed, And they've they've always been involved in that, yes. So I would say did it did it impact them? Yes, absolutely. but I will say that like again, my dad was a middle school science teacher. So everything is heavily But there is logic to everything with my dad. Very heavily influenced with logic. So when something logically doesn't make sense or you can't explain it, he would be looking for the logic in that. Yeah. but I think eventually, like at least for me anyways, I'm the same way. I'll look for logic, I'll ask a bunch of questions and if I can't say it something doesn't make sense, good example would be s anything that you can't explain that that's so perfect, well then to me that the logic says that maybe that's God. Yeah. That's that's where I go with it. Like there maybe that's the proof right there. You know what I mean? Like there's so many things that are unbelievably perfect. And if you want to chalk everything up to circumstance or luck, I guess you could do that. Man, that's a lot of luck. Yeah. That's it seems it seems more unlikely that it would be that lucky that many times more than it would be like there's somebody watching over us. There's a higher power making things happen for a reason. Well said, dude. Yeah. Well said. Very well said. it's the way that I've always looked at it. All right. Perfect. So moved on moving on. Got together with Jess. Got together with Jess, yeah. Gave the flowers. Obviously she said yes. Yes. All right. Melted the melted Fred's heart probably after a couple of years. Yeah. Wore him down. Lots of projects in his backyard. Awesome. Awesome. And so How long were you guys married before having kids? And was kids always in the books? Was it always a plan? Yes, kids were definitely always a plan for us. that was something that I think we had discussed before even getting married. Just like you casual conversation, not something that in a not in a scary way like you know, like, hey, I just met you, by the way, what's your stance on kids? Nothing like that. but we had always wanted to have kids. Like I I'm I always look forward to it. I I thought that would be the coolest thing to ever to be a to become a dad. Yeah. to try and give another person everything that my parents gave me would be super cool. And I've tried to model everything that I did or everything I'm doing as a as a dad. trying to follow my dad's footsteps. Mm-hmm. One of the biggest things that I always feared though, honestly, was he set the bar so high. And it's like, Man, how am I gonna reach that? so the only thing I can do is think that I can do is do the best that I can and just keep doing if I do at the minimum everything that he did, I'll I'll finish close. You know what I mean? Maybe I can pass him but I'll finish close. but yes, always wanted to have kids. So I think we got married. married in t let's see, five six six. How they was born twenty ten, four years later. I I couldn't even tell you and I get asked this all the time. I try and think back. I don't know what I did because I was working at the fire department and you know the schedule of the fire department's twenty four on, forty eight off. I'm not sure what I did on those two days off before we had kids. I I mean, I think I was going home and just like vegging out on the couch and I guess playing video games for seventy two hours. Whatever it is. 'Cause I d I have no idea what we did. Like kids changed everything in a good way. We're constantly doing something. There's always something happening, always something happening. there's that constant background noise. And if you have kids everybody knows what I'm talking about. Good, bad, and different. And when you don't hear the noise, you know something's up. You know what I mean? So but obviously we were doing something. I just my my memories almost go back to when we had the kids. That's where they start. Of like me and Jessica, before that, like I guess we were enjoying each other's company. I don't know, which almost seems odd. because if we take vacations now or do something now without the kids, we're missing the kids. it's su it becomes such a part of you that without them it seems there's something missing. Mm-hmm. And I guess that's maybe that's where I'm going with it. It's like kinda just What did I do with before I we had the kids? Were you usually a father figure for your twin brother? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. that's a good question for Scott. Scott, I mean when you watch this, yeah you'll have to tune in or at least answer in the comments somewhere. There's probably a comment section. Yeah. At least tune in and like drop a comment on that. yeah, I'm his dad for sure. Yeah. Yeah. he's actually one minute older than me. So he came out first. Scott's the older brother. How'd you guys find that out? has told us just on the birth certificates, all that stuff. okay. So it's physically I'm bigger than Scott. I'm stronger than him. absolutely I'm stronger than him. But it Scott always says that I stole his food. That's a funny funny story and some other thing. So yes, but Scott is a minute. Scott is technically the older brother. I'm the middle brother, Craig's younger brother. Awesome, awesome. And what does Scott go into the fire service as well? No. So this is the funny thing is we both did criminal justice degrees. So again, going back to that we were always in the same classes. Obviously we went to college, we were doing that on purpose. You went to the same college as you? Same college. We both went to UCF. Jess went to UCF. so we went went to UCF, both of us chose the same degree, which, you know, looking back now w I would never choose that degree again. Like criminal justice, it was unbelievably easy for me to do. I I feel like I could have done any degree. I would choose engineering. I would choose something very challenging for myself to do again. This is me at forty-four years old seeing that, not at eighteen years old coming out saying, Hmm, what's the what's the degree that I'm interested in? That's also easy. Well, that was criminal justice. so we both did that. Scott actually did end up working for the federal government. So he took a job with Customs and Border Patrol, and the story behind that is is we both tested for US Customs and Border Patrol. And I don't know if there's anyone out there watching. This that is customism border patrol or has taken that test to get in the entry level test initially, they give you an artificial language test. Which if anyone's ever taken this, it's almost like I'm going to call it, I'm not going to say hieroglyphics, but essentially they would give you something that predicts whether or not you can learn a foreign language. And basically, triangle equals A, circle equals B, whatever. There's like this code that you're trying to decipher, whatever. I can remember taking the test and thinking, this is very easy. I failed that test, which is crazy. For two reasons. One, I thought it was easy. It was not diffic like what they were asking us to do was not difficult. I I really thought I was like, this is a piece of cake. Two, I took Spanish in high school, all the way growing up in South Florida. You had to take Spanish from elementary school. I feel like I would have been better off just taking the Spanish test. I understand a lot of Spanish. Mm-hmm. I just can't carry on a conversation, so to speak. I would have been better off taking a Spanish test than I would have been doing that again. Anyways, long story short short. Scott passed that test, Scott went on to US Customs Border Patrol. I immediately shifted gears. That's when I went to fire school in Orlando. That was the end of me pursuing federal government jobs. So he's he's the more intellectual one. I'm gonna say no. I had again I'm gonna say no. So in high school and I'm gonna have a list for Scott to answer on the comments. Scott's gonna have a lot to to back up on this. I'm gonna say no again, and I have the stats to back this one up though. I think I finished in our high school. I think I was in the top I'm gonna say number twelve in my class, graduated. I had a full ride, academic ride to UCF. And the biggest joke is is Scott always said that he was the valivictorian of the second twenty-five. Which is great. So Scott was number twenty-six in our class. When I was number twelve, so I almost I beat him by twelve. He's not close. You know what I mean? For all those counting. The only thing close is the last name, huh? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, he he kinda tarnished it a little bit. I would like to see him in the top twenty five. that's awesome. Alan Victorian of the second twenty five is a great title to have. So number twenty six out there all over the world. We see you, we hear you. did your parents emphasize a lot on education as you guys grew up? Heavily influenced on education. That was always the most important thing. for us, we weren't allowed to do anything if school wasn't taken care of. Okay. So that was always number one and me and Jess have carried that on even with our kids. Like so we had set routines like, okay, you get home from school, there is no like get a sip of water, like go hang out, relax a little bit, then do your homework. No, it was homework first. As soon as you get home, you're doing your homework. You can eat snacks and get drinks while you're doing it, but you are doing your homework as long as it takes. If you're not done before baseball practice, you don't go to practice. So you had to get that stuff done. Now obviously high school is different 'cause you're going straight into you know, baseball practice, you don't have a choice. but growing up For shoals. School was heavily emphasized for us. again, my dad was a middle school teacher, a science teacher. I one of the funniest things that always happened was we'd come home, especially if it was a science class, we'd say, Hey Dad, we we don't know what this is. We don't know what this question is. Can you help us out with this? He would look at it and say, You should have learned this in fourth grade. Like it was something that the teacher didn't teach us. I'm like, Well, I don't know what to tell you, Dad, but we don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. So he would have to teach us whatever this ninth grade science lesson was. And I don't know For all I know, we probably didn't pay attention or something because it obviously I'm sure the teachers were doing a good job. But mm that I can remember. But yes, school was always heavily emphasized in our household. So awesome dude. Awesome. And then probably a great feeling for your parents to see yeah. Your the the path, right? That was Absolutely. yeah, I would say that's a ultimate success story is that however you raise your kids and whatever their dreams are, they're capable of going out and chasing them and doing whatever they want. so myself, me and Scott went to college, obviously. Craig And y funny that you brought up like who is the you know, the brains. Craig actually scored higher on any of the tests than me or Scott did. So I if you're making your argument, Craig, shout out to you. Craig was the probably the brightest on the two of us. Yes. So but all Craig actually went to UCF as well. So everybody What is what is Craig doing right now? Craig is the head chef at a a restaurant, Fleming's Steakhouse. So if anyone ever wants to go to a really good steakhouse, you should go to Fleming's Steakhouse. They're outstanding food. you up. Awesome, awesome dude. with that being said, you got the title of husband, you got the title of father. Is there any if you could think back, any like maybe one or two core values that your parents taught you that you would probably try to instill in your kids? Yeah, so one thing that we were always taught growing up is to be accepting of everybody. And one of the reasons that I can remember that being such a hard thing or a a thing that was really driven into us, it was that just because somebody comes from a different place or a different background, it doesn't make less of a person. Like we were obviously we could have gone my parents could have put us in any of the schools we wanted to, good schools, better schools, all the stuff we could have gone anywhere. Wherever we were I'm gonna say zone for or anything like that, we never moved classes. We never got taken out of stuff 'cause where I come from in South Florida, it wasn't necessarily it wouldn't be an area that you'd necessarily be like, wow, that's a really good area. Homestead wasn't bad. Mm-hmm. but it's a melting pot of people. And listen, there was all walks of life, every different thing that you can imagine, but it made you better as a person. Because listen, I'm I could mix it up with anybody. Like it doesn't matter to me. Like I th anybody, all those people are fine. They're like, I can remember when I moved to Ocala, people were like, hey, this is a really bad neighborhood and this is the you know kind of the the bad area and I look over there and I'm thinking to myself, This looks like where I grew up. Like there's nothing wrong with this place. Like this is this is normal. again it's all I think it's all again going back to perspective on things and again just being just being accepting of people and giving instead of looking for the bad in people, look for the good in somebody. Absolutely because everybody has something to offer and I don't think that everybody's circumstances aren't the same and I think if you maybe put yourself in someone else's shoes even just for a little bit, that sometimes it it might allow you to maybe see like, that's why he made that decision or maybe he was forced to do that. Yeah. because obviously to take it to an extreme, I guarantee you if people are hungry enough, you might do something that you would be surprised that you might do if you have to eat to live. Yep. That type of deal. Not saying it's right or wrong, but I'm saying I think that choice would be made. Yep. Yeah. Awesome dude, great answer. So here on the podcast we have three core questions that we like to ask all of our guests, right? and the first one is tell us your why. What's what what what is the reason Sean is the way Sean is? Tell us give us a little insight on it. Okay. So that's a good question. obviously I think you're up I do believe that your upbringing, obviously your values that you have, the core values that you have that that you're instilled to you in you from the time that you're you're brought up and born and all that stuff, that does play a a role in it. I would also say that my why I would be lying if I said it didn't change. Like from like it's it's over time it's changed for sure. I'm a totally different person now than I was when I was eighteen, twenty years old or whatever. When I first got hired, obviously the why probably would have been if I had to imagine, the job was cool. I need a job. Like I've done something, I gotta start doing stuff. That was the why. I don't know, and as you're progressing through the thing, or progressing through your career, you're trying to promote, you're trying to do all these things. I got married, I had kids now. the why shifted. The why shifted to now, hey, I need to I need to do this stuff for not only for myself but for my family. I need to be a role model. I need to show the kids that hey, through hard work and this you can you can achieve anything that you wanna do. Different different stuff that would be more than just about me. More than just about like, okay, I just got here and I've accomplished this. Well, there's other things that you can do. Yeah. Like it's not just like don't settle. Like I've never been somebody to settle. I've always trying to challenge myself, whether it was in work or something like that. There's always I it doesn't come al always come across that way. I'm a very laid back person. I like to have fun. It may seem I I come across as very unserious. but when it comes to actually time to work and time to do something and time to focus Similar to when you asked me about the competition question where you're competitive, I'm very competitive. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna openly sit here and promote myself that to let you know that I'll beat you, but I'm gonna tell you that I will beat you. I there's no doubt in my mind that I would be on a test. Not specifically you, but yeah anyone. That's the mindset that I have. and I've done very well in in all the tests. the why now, if you're asking me now what what is the why? There's some of that that I'm gonna keep to myself because I have to fe I feel like you have to keep a little bit to yourself because it gives you an edge. And I don't want to lose the edge that I have. but I would also say that there's definitely parts of it where I think, because I can, why wouldn't I? Why would I not I think I'm the right person for it. Mm-hmm. Like there's a there's a need in maybe this spot or that spot or or whatever it is that I'm trying to do or that I I have a goal to accomplish. Like if there's it's almost like if you can volunteer and help somebody, why would you not do it? And I I take that same approach at work and I could do that. Like and and I should do it. No one else is stepping up to do it or maybe they are, but like, why not me? Why would I might be better than them? Like so I'm gonna try and do it. and I guess that's kind of what pushes me. and I also I I wanna challenge myself. I don't wanna I don't wanna settle. we're in this for too long, even now. I'm twenty years in, but still like am I just gonna shut it down? You don't wanna get comfortable. No. Like why would I get comfortable at ten years, fifteen years, twenty years? I'm not saying that the the veteran guy shouldn't be maybe more relaxed, you know what I mean? Like I I totally get that. But I mean like to shut it down, like completely shut it down, I can't do that. Like we're we're too young for that. I got too many people watching me, especially my kids. I wanna I wanna be a good role model for them and let know that hey it it's not gonna get maybe necessarily easier as you get older, it's probably gonna get harder. But you can still keep going. you should still be trying. yeah I might not be the fastest, the strongest, the whatever, but I'm I'm out there. I'm giving you giving you what I can. You know what I mean? And it's good to I feel like it's good to lead that way. Absolutely dude. Yeah. So I mean guess it's the why. There's a lot of whys, but it's a good one. Yeah. A bunch a bundle of them. I think that's that's pretty good. Hopefully you did keep some of yourself 'cause you I don't give away of all Yeah. That's awesome, dude. Yeah, no, you I think most of us that have worked that had the opportunity and the honor to work with you, I think you have the a a a unique leadership style and capability of leading people. Yeah, I would agree with you. I would say the same thing. I would say that I'm I'm maybe well, I guess the square peg and a round hole. The fire department for everyone watching, It's very much a quasi military and they are very, very and for good reason, strict with discipline, physical fitness, all the stuff that you would absolutely want to have in people. and there's nothing wrong with that. But one of the things that I that I really like and I'm I'm odd in this way is that especially if you look at there's a lot of things that have have shaped the way that I lead. One would be like my sheer size. At five foot six, a hundred and eighty pounds, if you think about it and that person walks into a room full of guys that could be six three, two hundred and fifty pounds, which we have quite a few of those. You guys are studs. I mean these kids coming out now are are massive. The guy that's five six one eighty, no one even recognizes when I walk into a room. And that's great. I like to be low key. That's perfect. I don't I'm not a yeller, I'm not a screamer. If someone five six yells and screams at people, they're gonna turn around, they're just gonna grab you and throw you across the room. Like that that doesn't make any sense. So for me the challenge is how do you get people to respect you enough, follow you enough to actually like like that guy's he's I'll follow him. he's there's something about that that I like. So the challenge is making sure that you do that. And the way that I've always done that is again, I'm not the fastest, not the strongest. I've I don't think I've ever been any of those in anything that I've done. Just like there's physically gonna be impossibilities that I'm not gonna be able to reach of other people. But my soft skills, the stuff that I can hone, I've honed those skills very well. And there are lots of people that I can see the good in those people and maybe they just need a little luggage and I can get them I don't want to say manipulate them to do what I want, but I can like hey, I can give you an opportunity. I see something in you that if you follow me, I can get you there. Like I I can't physically do it myself, but you could. You're better than I am. Like if I could do it, I know you could do it. Like in man, there's guys in positions now that I watch them and look at and dude, that guy's gonna be incredible. Yeah. As his career progresses, like man, I would follow him now. And he needs to hone his skills. Yeah. That type of deal. So I think that and again, that one other thing I was gonna say, you said that my again, my leadership style, I very much cannot stand, and this is very opposite of for most people in the fire department, I cannot stand they love uniformity. And I get that with wearing the same uniform, this and that. They want everyone to do the same thing. They want everyone to do this. I don't like that. I want someone to be themselves. Okay, and I'll give you an example. If you have three to four or five guys, pick your guys at the fire department that are dogs. And I'm talking about when I say dogs, I'm talking about guys that, man, these guys are rough around the edges. They take it, they're very extreme, but they get the job done. Their toes are hanging over the edge of the man, that dude is right there on the Is this like is he in the bounds here? Can he do that? It's right there. That's the guys who you're like, man, that's a dog. Okay, those guys, you want to have two or three of them on every crew. But I don't want them on a leash. I want them to run. The worst thing you can do is chain a dog. I'm not gonna try and tra change that person. I'm gonna try and hone some of his other skills, but that skill set that he has, there's very few people that have that skill set. At the same time I need somebody that's a a good leader, somebody that's logical thinker. Mm-hmm. I want that person with those dogs. Hey dogs, this is the route we're gonna go and I'm just gonna let you run. And then I need somebody who's a little bit of comedian, a little bit somebody to soften it up just a touch. That can still hold his own but soften it up. Yeah. A good example of this, and this is gonna sound crazy and this might be before your time tee, I always think of like the the teenage mured ninja turtles. But if you think it think about that squad that they had, Leonardo's the leader, Raphael was the dog. Michelangelo was the the comedic like relief or whatever, and yeah, Donnie was like the the kind of the brains, the smart sort of thing. That's a good team. Mm-hmm. That team of different people brought together to be the team works really, really well. And I've always found that if you let people be themselves, you give them the opportunity to show off their skills, you give them the glory. I don't need them I don't need any of it. They d I didn't do anything. All I did was put them together maybe. They accomplished all the stuff. They executed the plan. It's all on them. And I feel like I've found that in that style of leadership, I've never had anyone really say that and I'm listen, I'm sure there's people that don't like that style. but it works really well for me. And I think it's really the only option. Again, I'm not going into a room yelling and screaming, th they're gonna pick me up and throw me like a spear. Mm-hmm. So I think you gotta find another way and for me it works really well. That's awesome, dude. Very well said. Very well well put. let me go on to another question. And we'll switch to if you had one piece of advice to give somebody going through a rough time right now, what would that be? It could be a rough time in regards to basically anything. Sure. one thing that I always like to say is that and I I've always said this, everything is temporary. Nothing is permanent. It's a you're in a moment in time, you're in right now. if you just keep keep your head down and keep going. It could be slow pace. But if you keep going, I think that everything can turn around. again, whether it's a station assignment, whether you're driving in the rain even. My dad used to say that. Never s like you see p cars pull over and stop in the rain. Man, you could be in a rainstorm for hours. Mm-hmm. Drive five miles an hour. It's not raining for twenty five, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, hundred miles. Mm-hmm. Keep moving. Like you get out of the storm. And I would say the same thing applies to if you're going through a rough patch, go back to a great place to go. Go back to the church. There's one person that's always on your side. He's always with you. That's God. So if you can find family You know what I mean? Lean on lean on your pillars. But keep going. Don't stop. It's temporary. Like everything is temporary. There's no reason to don't get hung up in a moment. You can get down, you can get disappointed, you can get this. Get back up. Mm-hmm. Like keep moving. Temporary, I that dude. That'd be that'd be the powerful keep moving. It's temporary. It's a mind thing. You gotta you gotta train your mind, I think, to to be able to overcome, you gotta have thick skin, like man the world the world's jagged. Mm-hmm. It it is temporary. Awesome dude. Very powerful. Well, that was great. now since we're in kind of in this topic, let me ask you, is there any time in your life that you can recall where kind of your faith pushed you through a rough time, helped you go through a tough season? Yes, definitely. I can think of two times for sure. Well more way more than two, but two that really are at the forefront. My dad passed away this last year. The roughest time of my life. My dad was hero, my dad was everything to me. I think that without the faith that I have, without being able to lean back on that, knowing that he is in a better place, that was for the best, that was the plan. Yeah. Like whatever it was, that was the plan. I didn't obviously I didn't want any th I didn't want that outcome. But there has to be a there's a bigger picture here. Like he's in paradise. Mm-hmm. You're in a much better spot. so to me that time for sure is a place there's a time w that I absolutely heavily, heavily was man, I was in I was in my in the prayer, in the books, like thing like trying to figure out how can we get past this. 'Cause my dad was the he was the mainstay. He was the the pillar of the family. He was the head of the family. Everything that I am is because of my mom and dad, but heavily influenced by my dad. a lot of the life lessons that I have, a lot of the way that I am, is because of my dad. Yeah. I've tried to mirror everything that he's done in his life. so that for sure. Another time was this is more probably more people maybe can relate to this, w during a testing time, I took a test relatively recently, it wasn't the outcome that I was looking for. I thought I'd performed really well and I did perform really well. in that moment I was very frustrated with the not the test itself, just the the way that the test was was given or maybe not even graded, just the way that it just the way that everything happened around the test. And very upset and I I did some things that I wish I could take back. Like it wasn't the not that they were wrong, it's just I could have handled it differently. and at the time extremely upset, but when I went back and you start to reflect on it and you start to maybe like prey on it a little bit, again, everything happens for a reason. Timing is everything. And as I step back and look at that and you know, years later I've I've actually did really well on the test again. ended up you know getting getting promoted. but I think I needed the the setback and maybe that time actually helped me. Mm-hmm. Second time I went through it I finished number one in the test. Yeah. And it was just maybe I needed that. Maybe I needed the experience. Maybe I needed the to have that. But it it all worked out. Like it I think it was it's temporary, right? Yeah, it's temporary. And it was part of the plan. But it that temporary lasted a little longer than I would have liked it. For myself. Yeah. Just the way that I was feeling myself. You think any of that work related affected your home life? No, I really tried not to and I was really lucky. one thing that got me past that, pretty quickly was actually my kids. Because and it was at the time, going back, they were a little bit younger than they are now, had these sixteen Lincoln's fourteen about to be fifteen in December. so this would probably be four or five years ago, I guess, that this was. at the time I don't think that they really understood like the test and the the way that it was all playing out and the the what was at stake maybe at that time. So for them they couldn't comprehend why I was so upset about finishing where I finished, 'cause it was high. Yeah. Which Good on them. They did great. And the people that are there, they're phenomenal right now. The ones that got it, they're they're excellent at the job. They were definitely meant to be in that spot. But they they were the way that they questioned it and the way they were asking questions, why was I so why does it matter so much? Why does it this, why does it that? It made me think like, gosh, why does it? Like what is what is the point? Like I should be f I'm fine. There's everything that I need is right here, everything that we have we we have food, we have house, we have everything nice. Nothing's changed in my life. It's all exactly the same. So they're they really helped me through that. That's that's that's awesome how Even if it was just for a little bit, but your perspective changed, right? Yeah. You started to focus on It was my perspective changed just by listening to a I don't know, a ten and eleven year old's perspective of what I'm talking their perspective was like almost as a like, does it matter? No, it doesn't. Yeah. Like it really you know it was a goal that I had, but it nothing changed. Yeah. Yeah, it was great. I was still looking good. You know what I'm saying? We were still looking good. We're still yeah Yeah, a hundred percent. Awesome dude. All right, to finish us off, brother, we ask our guests to bring a verse. That's the kind of their go to, that's something that they can read and helps them go through whatever it is or just something that they like to to think about, meditate on. You got anything for us today? Sure. Yeah. the verse that I'm gonna that I'm gonna reference actually, it's Romans chapter eight, verse thirty one. this is something that's very special to me. Me and my wife actually, this was read at our wedding. This is one of the readings that we had. And I'm gonna borrow this. Absolutely, bro. We got a Bible right here. Borrow this Bible. And some of you guys, it's pretty popular verse. the people that are really deep into this would probably have heard this before. And the verse goes, If God is for us, who can be against us? And that to me is so universal in what it's saying. it's simple and it just is something that can ground you with everything. right away, we and Jessica chose it and we chose it for our wedding, we chose it because it's like, man, no matter what, we know that he's on our side. And if he's on our side, it doesn't matter what people, what obstacles we're overcoming, whatever we have going on in our life, he's got our back. And I think it's important, when I when we first read this and I was going through this and studying it a little bit, The if there people are always I've heard people say, at least at least I even thought it myself, like, mm, what do you mean if? Like I I thought he was always with us. Well, I think the if in this sense in the context of this is it's more as if like, no, he's already on our side. Mm-hmm. So if he's already on our side, then the listen, you don't have a nothing has a chance. There's nothing more powerful than God. Yep. and I think the reason that and if you're looking for proof that he's he's on your side, I don't think we have to look any further than the fact that he sacrificed his only son for us. Mm-hmm. So I think that if like if you need proof if you're looking for something, but it doesn't get any more If he's willing to do that, then he did everything for you. He gave it all for you. Especially if you're a parent. Yes, absolutely. Because that is the last thing in the world. That would be the last thing that I sacrificed. Like ever I sacrificed myself before I sacrificed my kids. Yeah. Yeah. So, again, very powerful verse to me. I love that verse because I can go back to that and I can just you're grounded in the fact that man, he has got your back. Like you don't have to worry about that. Doesn't matter what you're going through, doesn't matter what it is, like he's with you. Like him. Always on your side. Amen, brother. Yeah, love that verse. Awesome. Yeah, go to. So again, guys, another episode of the Way to Fire podcast. Love this dude to my left here to death, man. He is truly a guy that has been nothing but a dude that's pushed me to be better in every stage and every capacity of my life. Honor to call him a friend, a brother. If you don't got anything for them, brother. We're gonna call it. We'll see you guys on the next one. Absolutely, brother. Thanks, T. Thank you, bud.