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Healing in Community with Sacred Plant Medicine w/ Kathy Orah Sionit | The Holistic Pharmacy Podcast · Pharmacy Podcast Network

0:05
Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
0:09
Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession.
0:10
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
0:29
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to the Holistic Pharmacy Podcast. I'm your host,
0:34
Speaker 3: Marina Buksov, and I'm a functional medicine pharmacist in New York.
0:39
Speaker 3: I'm also a clinical herbalist and an integrative health coach
0:43
Speaker 3: specializing in mindfulness and empowerment. I'm on a mission to
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Speaker 3: transform the way we approach healthcare by bridging the wisdom
0:51
Speaker 3: of traditional medicine with modern practice. And in this podcast,
0:56
Speaker 3: I will be highlighting guests who do just I'm constantly
1:00
Speaker 3: inspired by them and I know you will be as well.
1:04
Speaker 4: Hello and welcome back to the Holistic Pharmacy Podcast.
1:08
Speaker 5: As always, I have a very special.
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Speaker 4: Guest in store for you today. Her name is Kathy
1:13
Speaker 4: Ora Chakuhi. I hope I'm saying that right. And she's
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Speaker 4: a licensed psychotherapist, master hypnotherapist, and intuitive healer with private
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Speaker 4: practices in both Great Neck and Brooklyn, New York. She
1:28
Speaker 4: specializes in integrative trauma work, blending psychotherapy with somatic techniques, hypnotherapy,
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Speaker 4: and spiritual healing modalities. As a certified master hypnotherapist, she
1:40
Speaker 4: focuses deeply on helping clients heal from early childhood wounds, anxiety,
1:45
Speaker 4: and subconscious patterning. So without further ado, Kathy, welcome to
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Speaker 4: the show.
1:52
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today.
1:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm excited to dive into your story, your journey.
2:01
Speaker 4: So let's start a little bit about your background, where
2:05
Speaker 4: you grew up, and how you came to do this work.
2:08
Speaker 1: Sure. So I am an immigrant from Iran. I left
2:13
Speaker 1: the country when I was 14 years old.
2:16
Speaker 2: I escaped. We emigrated as Jewish Iranians.
2:23
Speaker 1: And we went through Austria for a couple of months.
2:27
Speaker 1: We had to apply for asylum. And then finally we
2:29
Speaker 1: were granted asylum to enter the United States. And I've
2:34
Speaker 1: been here since 1990. So it's been a very long time.
2:39
Speaker 1: I came as a teenager, so I had a full
2:41
Speaker 1: life that I lived in Iran.
2:45
Speaker 2: I had a childhood. I had some teenagehood.
2:47
Speaker 1: I had tons of friends, lots of memories. And I
2:51
Speaker 1: kind of had to leave everything behind in a very
2:54
Speaker 1: sudden way so that we can move on towards the
2:59
Speaker 1: next journey of our lives.
3:02
Speaker 2: So that's a little bit about my childhood. And I went.
3:07
Speaker 1: To high school here. I finished high school here in Brooklyn.
3:11
Speaker 1: And then I decided to go to college. I was
3:14
Speaker 1: kind of debating between psychology and fashion. I've always loved fashion.
3:20
Speaker 1: That's another passion of mine. And I kind of like
3:23
Speaker 1: went back and forth, back and forth. And then finally,
3:27
Speaker 1: I decided to go for psychology. And I got my
3:29
Speaker 1: master's in social work from Wurzweiler School of Social Work.
3:33
Speaker 1: And I graduated in 2008. Started out as a regular
3:40
Speaker 1: talk therapist doing all the, you know, general things that
3:44
Speaker 1: all the therapists do. I had to work in clinical settings,
3:49
Speaker 1: like agency settings, just like most other social workers do
3:53
Speaker 1: in order to get certain hours done so we can
3:56
Speaker 1: get our licensing. So that's kind of like the road
3:58
Speaker 1: that I took and I ended up working in three
4:02
Speaker 1: different agencies and And that was very, very interesting for
4:07
Speaker 1: me because I'd always had a holistic edge.
4:13
Speaker 2: I was never really a.
4:14
Speaker 1: Person that believed so much in the medical system, the
4:18
Speaker 1: way it's been practiced.
4:21
Speaker 2: Everything else. So I kind of learned a lot.
4:24
Speaker 1: I had to really learn to navigate myself through that system.
4:28
Speaker 1: And I had to kind of, there were times that
4:30
Speaker 1: I kind of had to be shut up. Like you
4:33
Speaker 1: can't say this, you can't do that. You can't talk
4:35
Speaker 1: about vitamins. You can't talk about homeopathy.
4:38
Speaker 5: It's not allowed.
4:38
Speaker 2: We could be sued, send them to the psychiatrist. They'll
4:42
Speaker 2: be medicated. That's the best way. And so I kind
4:45
Speaker 2: of had to go through that.
4:47
Speaker 1: And which wasn't really easy for me. And I'm a
4:51
Speaker 1: pretty outspoken person. I'm very passionate. And basically, it's very
4:56
Speaker 1: hard to shut me up. So I definitely have my
5:00
Speaker 1: learning curve there.
5:04
Speaker 2: So let's see, what else?
5:05
Speaker 1: So about 10 years ago, in 2016, I suffered from
5:14
Speaker 1: a very, very traumatic miscarriage. I pretty much had to
5:18
Speaker 1: deliver a baby at five months. And that experience really
5:24
Speaker 1: changed my life to the point that the trauma from
5:30
Speaker 1: that experience threw me into a different loop of existence.
5:37
Speaker 1: I ended up having a lot of physical symptoms, got issues.
5:43
Speaker 2: I was exhausted.
5:44
Speaker 1: I was basically carrying a lot of different emotions, unresolved trauma,
5:51
Speaker 1: unresolved emotions that kind of like were showing.
5:56
Speaker 2: Themselves up in my body.
5:57
Speaker 1: And I got to a point where I literally just
6:01
Speaker 1: couldn't function.
6:02
Speaker 2: So I started out seeking holistic health.
6:07
Speaker 1: And I ended up finally after doing some tests on
6:12
Speaker 1: blood tests and all that, I.
6:13
Speaker 2: Ended up at this doctor's office.
6:16
Speaker 1: She is an angel and she's a holistic MD. So
6:23
Speaker 1: what happened with her was that we went through a
6:26
Speaker 1: process of like food allergies and sensitivities.
6:30
Speaker 2: And, you know, all the holistic stuff that people go through.
6:33
Speaker 1: And then at some point, She said to me, she
6:37
Speaker 1: turned to me and she says, Kathy, I think your.
6:40
Speaker 2: Stuff is really very much emotion related.
6:45
Speaker 1: And I want to do, if you're okay, I think
6:48
Speaker 1: next time we should do a Reiki session.
6:53
Speaker 2: And I didn't know what Reiki was.
6:55
Speaker 1: I was familiar with energy medicine and I'd done energy modalities,
7:00
Speaker 1: but I'd never really done Reiki before.
7:02
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, wow. Okay, so if Dr.
7:04
Speaker 2: Christine Blanche is telling me that I.
7:06
Speaker 1: Should do Reiki, for sure, I'm going to do Reiki.
7:08
Speaker 1: And I loved her and I trusted her so much.
7:11
Speaker 1: And I said, I'll do whatever you say, you know?
7:14
Speaker 1: And so we did a Reiki session. And during that session,
7:20
Speaker 1: I felt a lot of energy.
7:22
Speaker 2: Comes through me.
7:24
Speaker 1: And I felt tremendous amount of grief, tremendous amount of
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Speaker 1: guilt and shame and a whole lot of other emotions
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Speaker 1: that I had kind of pretty much just repressed within
7:37
Speaker 1: myself since the miscarriage.
7:41
Speaker 2: And this is about a year.
7:42
Speaker 1: After the miscarriage already where I thought I had kind
7:45
Speaker 1: of moved on with life. You know, I'd had other
7:48
Speaker 1: kids and I had to be a mother to them
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Speaker 1: and I couldn't really afford to just like be feeling
7:54
Speaker 1: grief every day. I couldn't walk around depressed. So I
7:57
Speaker 1: kind of like had moved on with life, but not really.
8:02
Speaker 1: And there was so much that happened during that session.
8:05
Speaker 1: And I think what happened was that besides for the emotions,
8:09
Speaker 1: something else also shifted within me energetically to the point
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Speaker 1: that I became very energetically in tuned.
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Speaker 2: It was almost like she opened me up. She energetically
8:21
Speaker 2: opened me up. And it was beautiful. It was hard.
8:27
Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie.
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Speaker 1: You know, the whole process was not easy because when
8:31
Speaker 1: you repress stuff and you're not wanting to deal with them,
8:35
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden everything is coming out,
8:39
Speaker 1: then you're left with all of the emotions.
8:40
Speaker 2: You're left with, what do I do now?
8:43
Speaker 1: And so that kind of like started out my journey
8:47
Speaker 1: towards holistic healing and energy and all of that.
8:52
Speaker 2: So fast forward two years after.
8:55
Speaker 1: Um, I kind of, I was in a gym one,
8:59
Speaker 1: one morning and I was always like on the go,
9:02
Speaker 1: on the go, like go, go, go, just, just keep,
9:05
Speaker 1: you know, get things done.
9:07
Speaker 2: And, um, it was a very stressful day.
9:11
Speaker 1: One morning I entered a class in the gym and
9:15
Speaker 1: And as I entered, it was a Zumba, step Zumba class.
9:19
Speaker 1: So I don't know if you're familiar with Zumba, but
9:21
Speaker 1: you kind of have to go on a step and
9:22
Speaker 1: you're dancing on and off the step, which could be
9:25
Speaker 1: a pretty intense class.
9:28
Speaker 2: And I remember I was late to the class and
9:30
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to have a spot.
9:32
Speaker 1: And I had that like competitive edge, you know, going on.
9:36
Speaker 1: And as I entered the class, I put one foot
9:40
Speaker 1: on the step and my back went out.
9:42
Speaker 2: Completely went out. I could not take a step. I
9:45
Speaker 2: was paralyzed.
9:47
Speaker 1: And as this is happening, I'm trying to get myself
9:51
Speaker 1: down into a whole lot of stairs to go into
9:55
Speaker 1: the locker room so that I could figure out what
9:58
Speaker 1: to do with myself. And lo and behold, I was
10:04
Speaker 1: really in a lot of pain. I couldn't go to work.
10:08
Speaker 2: I couldn't do anything in my household. And I was
10:10
Speaker 2: kind of like bedridden for a couple of days. And
10:14
Speaker 2: as I was lying down in my bed, I remember
10:17
Speaker 2: just talking to God. I was like, okay, God, if
10:20
Speaker 2: this is.
10:20
Speaker 1: A punishment and you don't want me to do anything,
10:23
Speaker 1: like you don't want me to be a therapist, you
10:25
Speaker 1: don't want me to be a mother and you want
10:27
Speaker 1: me to just lay down here. What is it that
10:28
Speaker 1: you want? Like to show me, show me what is
10:31
Speaker 1: it that you want me to do now? And I
10:35
Speaker 1: remember going on my phone and the first thing that
10:37
Speaker 1: pops up was transcendental meditation course. And I looked at
10:44
Speaker 1: it and I was like, oh, this is interesting. I've
10:46
Speaker 1: always wanted to learn how to meditate.
10:49
Speaker 2: So let me go see what this is about.
10:50
Speaker 1: And I go on into the post and I found
10:54
Speaker 1: this teacher.
10:55
Speaker 2: Out on Long Island, a beautiful, lovely lady.
10:58
Speaker 1: And we set up these sessions for me to learn
11:02
Speaker 1: transcendental meditation.
11:04
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you're familiar with that form of meditation.
11:07
Speaker 1: Okay.
11:09
Speaker 2: So it's basically just sitting in quiet. with no talking,
11:14
Speaker 2: no expression.
11:15
Speaker 1: And you're doing this for about 22 minutes, once or
11:18
Speaker 1: twice a day. And there's usually a mantra that's given
11:22
Speaker 1: to you, the participant, the student, the meditator. And that
11:28
Speaker 1: mantra is usually decided by some elder, someone that's already
11:32
Speaker 1: been in the field. And I was, at the end
11:35
Speaker 1: of the course, I was given a mantra and It
11:39
Speaker 1: was a three-day course. I had to be there literally
11:41
Speaker 1: for hours and hours, just sitting in quiet, meditating with
11:44
Speaker 1: this woman. And that was my introduction to meditation. And
11:54
Speaker 1: so I would now say that something that was very
11:58
Speaker 1: tragic for me and really like debilitating ended up really
12:02
Speaker 1: being a huge blessing. And now I can say that
12:05
Speaker 1: because I could see that if I would not have
12:08
Speaker 1: had that setback, if my back would not have been
12:11
Speaker 1: thrown out, I would probably not have learned to slow down.
12:15
Speaker 1: I would not have learned to meditate and sit with myself.
12:20
Speaker 1: And so from that journey on, I also became really
12:25
Speaker 1: interested in hypnotherapy. And I ended up finding someone here
12:32
Speaker 1: who was an amazing hypnotherapist.
12:34
Speaker 2: And so I went through a couple of hypnotherapy.
12:38
Speaker 1: Sessions that were really, really healing and very deep for
12:42
Speaker 1: me and worked through some of my childhood traumas that
12:45
Speaker 1: were also repressed, familial stuff. things that were related to
12:52
Speaker 1: incidences during childhood, as well as me leaving in a
12:57
Speaker 1: sudden way, you know, leaving Iran and leaving everything behind.
13:01
Speaker 2: So all of that stuff related.
13:03
Speaker 1: To immigration that were also traumatic. And so that also
13:10
Speaker 1: started another part of my journey where I wanted to
13:13
Speaker 1: learn to be a hypnotherapist. And so I kind of
13:16
Speaker 1: had to go through a whole year-long course, which I
13:21
Speaker 1: did in New York City, and.
13:23
Speaker 2: I became a hypnotherapist.
13:26
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't even use my hypnotherapy skills for
13:30
Speaker 1: a very long time.
13:32
Speaker 2: I was really afraid. I was so scared. I was like,
13:35
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it. You know, I was very timid.
13:39
Speaker 1: And what happened was that right when COVID hit, I
13:43
Speaker 1: was getting calls from friends and clients who were so frantic.
13:48
Speaker 2: They were paralyzed in fear. They didn't know what to do.
13:51
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know, I'm just going to
13:54
Speaker 1: have to use my skills and help people get through
13:59
Speaker 1: these fears and whatever it is that is coming up
14:01
Speaker 1: for them. And so that's how I started my journey
14:04
Speaker 1: with hypnotherapy.
14:05
Speaker 2: It was really during COVID. I would say COVID really
14:09
Speaker 2: opened me up to so much I was able to
14:12
Speaker 2: step so much.
14:13
Speaker 1: More into myself during COVID. And after that, about four
14:22
Speaker 1: years ago, I was introduced to plants medicine and had
14:26
Speaker 1: an amazing first time ayahuasca journey that I went to.
14:33
Speaker 1: And that really also opened me up a lot. And
14:36
Speaker 1: then other psychedelics. And at some point, I was like,
14:41
Speaker 1: this is awesome. There's so much healing that can take
14:45
Speaker 1: place if psychedelics are done and in a proper way
14:50
Speaker 1: with integration when people are ready for it. And I
14:54
Speaker 1: decided to kind of offer that to my clients as well.
14:58
Speaker 2: And so that's a little bit about my journey.
15:04
Speaker 5: Wow.
15:04
Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that
15:08
Speaker 4: openly and vulnerably.
15:10
Speaker 5: And first of all, please know that.
15:16
Speaker 4: I understand the amount of courage it takes to speak
15:20
Speaker 4: out about all of the things you were just mentioning.
15:23
Speaker 4: And I'm really sorry to hear about your loss, especially
15:28
Speaker 4: the miscarriage and some of the other traumas that you mentioned.
15:32
Speaker 4: And at the same time, if I can reflect a
15:35
Speaker 4: little bit, it sounds like you were able to really
15:39
Speaker 4: lean into the painful challenges that could have been seen
15:43
Speaker 4: as obstacles in your journey and instead of fearing more
15:48
Speaker 4: of it, instead of being defeatist about it, you were
15:53
Speaker 4: actually able to, like you said, see the blessing and
15:57
Speaker 4: see the opportunity in those moments and allow it to
16:01
Speaker 4: be the initiation and the portal and the door to
16:05
Speaker 4: something else. So every time there was something hard or
16:11
Speaker 4: you were able to actually go into it instead of
16:15
Speaker 4: trying to avoid it, right? Like once you realize there
16:18
Speaker 4: was some repressed things and the Reiki and some of
16:22
Speaker 4: the other teachers you were mentioning helped open you up
16:26
Speaker 4: to that awareness, you actually were able to process that
16:32
Speaker 4: and then continue to step more into yourself, like you
16:37
Speaker 4: were saying, and open up these new levels and layers.
16:42
Speaker 4: in your journey and this word that you used and
16:46
Speaker 4: that is often used around these type of topics of
16:51
Speaker 4: energy or energetics.
16:54
Speaker 5: I think it's.
16:55
Speaker 4: Such a sublime word and some people may not even
17:00
Speaker 4: understand what that is, what it's referring to. And I
17:04
Speaker 4: was one of those people, because I'm coming from the
17:07
Speaker 4: very conventional logical world, being a pharmacist. But now that
17:12
Speaker 4: I too am in the plant medicine world and the
17:16
Speaker 4: transformational personal development space, I've been introduced to a lot
17:21
Speaker 4: of quote unquote spiritual topics that you were bringing up.
17:27
Speaker 4: And so it doesn't really matter what language we use
17:31
Speaker 4: to describe these experiences. I think we can all agree
17:34
Speaker 4: that we are more than just the physical body here
17:39
Speaker 4: having a human experience. So whatever religion or spiritual aspiration
17:45
Speaker 4: or belief system that we can use or philosophy, to
17:50
Speaker 4: describe this experience, there's definitely something that's not seen on
17:55
Speaker 4: the surface, something that's beyond the surface. So I think
18:00
Speaker 4: that's what we can sort of envision.
18:03
Speaker 5: When we're referring these things.
18:05
Speaker 4: Like initiation or opening or changing your energy. And so
18:11
Speaker 4: when we allow ourselves to have these new experiences and
18:16
Speaker 4: to learn from them, we can say that we're expanding
18:20
Speaker 4: our consciousness and our awareness that there's something beyond what we.
18:26
Speaker 5: Considered normal or physical or human. You know, and it's
18:34
Speaker 5: all sometimes sounds.
18:35
Speaker 4: Like I would say woo-woo is the term that's being
18:39
Speaker 4: thrown around or supernatural. But what I've learned is that
18:44
Speaker 4: is the natural. It's all a natural phenomenon. Sometimes it
18:49
Speaker 4: seems like a supernatural or extraordinary experience. However, it is
18:55
Speaker 4: on this scale that we can access. So sometimes there's
19:00
Speaker 4: these tools and modalities and even plants, like you were mentioning,
19:04
Speaker 4: that can be these catalysts to help us to unlock
19:09
Speaker 4: these states of consciousness. But it is accessible to the
19:14
Speaker 4: human mind and the spirit. So it sounds like you
19:18
Speaker 4: were definitely on that journey to learn about that for
19:22
Speaker 4: yourself and now help your clients with it. So I
19:28
Speaker 4: just wanted to share that reflection. And I also wanted
19:31
Speaker 4: to ask you. You know, looking back on that journey
19:38
Speaker 4: and all the little pieces of the puzzle that we're
19:41
Speaker 4: filling in, I'm curious why you think you initially chose
19:47
Speaker 4: to go into therapy and how your challenges from the
19:52
Speaker 4: immigration and everything that you described informed your practice.
20:00
Speaker 2: What was the first question?
20:03
Speaker 4: Um, so looking back at your experience, what, why do
20:08
Speaker 4: you think you initially chose therapy? Cause you mentioned that
20:12
Speaker 4: you were also into art and I can see you
20:14
Speaker 4: as a very creative, artistic person as well. Like by
20:17
Speaker 4: the way you're dressed and the painting in the background, um,
20:21
Speaker 4: you know, so what do you think drove you to
20:23
Speaker 4: this specifically and then continue to explore and expand your practice?
20:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:29
Speaker 4: Yeah.
20:29
Speaker 1: So to answer that question, honestly, I was very much
20:33
Speaker 1: torn and it was very like 50-50 for me to
20:37
Speaker 1: the point that I took a few years off just
20:40
Speaker 1: to figure it out. And I ended up finding a counselor,
20:45
Speaker 1: like a career counselor, and we did a whole testing.
20:48
Speaker 1: And again, it was 50-50. And she says to me, look, Kathy,
20:52
Speaker 1: I know a few fashion designers.
20:54
Speaker 2: I'm going to.
20:55
Speaker 1: Introduce you to them. This is a very like well-connected woman.
20:59
Speaker 1: And she says, here's two numbers. These are very full-fledged,
21:04
Speaker 1: you know, famous fashion designers. Call them, see how they,
21:07
Speaker 1: what it's like for them. And I remember calling one
21:11
Speaker 1: of them and the woman was, she was very sweet.
21:16
Speaker 1: She was talking to me very honestly.
21:18
Speaker 2: She was sharing her experience. And she said, look, if you.
21:22
Speaker 1: Want to be around for your children, if you want
21:24
Speaker 1: to be a present mother, And you don't want to
21:28
Speaker 1: be super stressed day and night because at that point already,
21:32
Speaker 1: a lot of the production was happening overseas. And she
21:37
Speaker 1: was telling me that she's up all night talking to
21:40
Speaker 1: China and Vietnam because of all the production that needs
21:44
Speaker 1: to happen and she needs to oversee them.
21:46
Speaker 2: And she said, it's a very stressful job.
21:49
Speaker 1: And if you want to be around for your children,
21:51
Speaker 1: I really would reconsider this.
21:54
Speaker 2: So that got me thinking.
21:56
Speaker 1: And at that point, I already had a few little
21:59
Speaker 1: children and I was like, I want to be present.
22:01
Speaker 2: I don't want to be, I don't want to travel
22:03
Speaker 2: to China once a month.
22:06
Speaker 1: And as much as I love fashion and design and
22:09
Speaker 1: all these things, then that's right now, that's not going
22:11
Speaker 1: to work out for me.
22:13
Speaker 2: And so just talking to.
22:15
Speaker 1: Her kind of helped me shift into this direction. And
22:21
Speaker 1: as time went on, when I started social work school
22:24
Speaker 1: and I was taking all these courses, I was like, yes,
22:26
Speaker 1: I'm in the right place. I am in the right place.
22:30
Speaker 1: This is what I want to do. This is fascinating
22:32
Speaker 1: to me.
22:33
Speaker 2: I was just like soaking up all the information. And
22:35
Speaker 2: there was also a lot of nonsense that we had
22:37
Speaker 2: to learn.
22:38
Speaker 5: I won't lie.
22:40
Speaker 1: There was a lot of political stuff and a lot
22:43
Speaker 1: of just like irrelevant things that we kind of had
22:46
Speaker 1: to go through just to get our degree. But on
22:50
Speaker 1: the same token, there was a lot of psychology, which
22:52
Speaker 1: I loved and a lot of transformative things. kind of
22:58
Speaker 1: approaches that a person can really learn to bring about
23:02
Speaker 1: to help other people. And I was like, this is
23:04
Speaker 1: what I want to do. So as time went on,
23:06
Speaker 1: it was really confirming to me that I was in
23:11
Speaker 1: the wrong profession. And I literally.
23:14
Speaker 2: Have never looked back.
23:16
Speaker 1: I mean, I still like design and fashion, but if
23:19
Speaker 1: I could choose all over again, I would definitely choose
23:22
Speaker 1: being a therapist.
23:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, amazing that you're able to check in and get
23:29
Speaker 4: the confirmations and have no regrets. So on that note,
23:34
Speaker 4: what do you find to be the most rewarding part
23:36
Speaker 4: of your profession?
23:39
Speaker 2: So the most rewarding part.
23:42
Speaker 1: Of my profession, I would say, is seeing how people
23:49
Speaker 1: enter into my space and and how they're able to
23:57
Speaker 1: remember who they are, transform themselves, and then either leave
24:01
Speaker 1: my space or decide that they too want to do
24:04
Speaker 1: this kind of work. So that is really, for me,
24:07
Speaker 1: that's really, I would say, encouraging, confirming, and also really rewarding.
24:14
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to lie, it is a very
24:16
Speaker 1: difficult profession. You know, when you're sitting all day long
24:20
Speaker 1: with people's traumas and stories and you're dealing with lifetimes
24:25
Speaker 1: of trauma, you're dealing with generations of trauma sometimes, most often.
24:30
Speaker 2: And it's heavy. It can get really heavy. And so
24:33
Speaker 2: there's a lot.
24:35
Speaker 1: Of self-nurturing and self-care.
24:39
Speaker 2: That needs to go along with it.
24:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely.
24:46
Speaker 4: There's the concept of the hollow bone where you let
24:51
Speaker 4: it but you let it pass through like without keeping
24:55
Speaker 4: or holding on to other people's traumas and practices like cleansing.
25:01
Speaker 4: And like you said, self-care to make sure you're retaining
25:06
Speaker 4: what's yours, but you're not necessarily taken on some of
25:10
Speaker 4: these burdens that are not yours to carry.
25:13
Speaker 5: So I think that's very important.
25:16
Speaker 4: And yeah, That actually brings me to my next question,
25:19
Speaker 4: which is what has been your biggest challenge in this
25:23
Speaker 4: work and also building your practice like on the financial
25:28
Speaker 4: end as well?
25:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:30
Speaker 1: So can I just go back for a moment to
25:32
Speaker 1: the last point? I just want to expand a little
25:34
Speaker 1: bit more on it. So when we talk about self-care, um, Yes,
25:40
Speaker 1: the cleansing is really important. Yes, getting massages is great. Yes, moving,
25:46
Speaker 1: getting a workout is awesome. But I feel that we as,
25:51
Speaker 1: and I'm talking now to, I guess, healthcare professionals or
25:54
Speaker 1: whoever is providing services to.
25:57
Speaker 2: Humanity, I find that we have to do our own work.
26:01
Speaker 1: And so I'm a huge believer and I practice mirror work.
26:06
Speaker 1: So when I'm sitting across someone and they are mirroring
26:10
Speaker 1: back to me, something which feels heavy to me, I
26:15
Speaker 1: tune into what is it that's coming up for me.
26:18
Speaker 1: And I go in there, I go in there within myself,
26:21
Speaker 1: not always in the session, but even sometimes afterwards. And
26:25
Speaker 1: I think this is something that makes us a good
26:28
Speaker 1: clear channels is to be able to hold space for
26:30
Speaker 1: what is ours, what is being triggered within us. so
26:36
Speaker 1: that we can be clear for somebody else. Because we're
26:40
Speaker 1: also humans and we can also get stuck in that,
26:43
Speaker 1: we can also get stuck in that emotion.
26:45
Speaker 2: We also have our biases. And so we wanna be
26:49
Speaker 2: able to see what is coming up for us.
26:52
Speaker 1: And so to me, that's a huge part of self-care.
26:55
Speaker 1: I just wanted to put that out there.
26:58
Speaker 4: I'm actually really glad that you paused and expanded on
27:02
Speaker 4: that because I think there's some inherent judgment too that
27:07
Speaker 4: can come in, like even saying something is heavy, you know,
27:10
Speaker 4: like you were saying that is also a mirror because
27:14
Speaker 4: there could be a philosophy that nothing is good or bad,
27:18
Speaker 4: you know, it just is. And so it does take
27:21
Speaker 4: constant work and checking yourself to be that person non-judgmental
27:27
Speaker 4: presence and safe space for somebody to just feel witnessed
27:32
Speaker 4: without necessarily having a solution for them even but just
27:36
Speaker 4: being seen yes.
27:38
Speaker 1: And the only way we can do that is to
27:40
Speaker 1: be able to see ourselves fully because they're just mirroring
27:46
Speaker 1: back to us what we have inside of ourselves.
27:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely something that I'm learning as well in my
27:55
Speaker 4: practice and through all my challenges and all my clients.
28:00
Speaker 5: So thank you for bringing that up.
28:03
Speaker 4: So what would you say has been the biggest challenge
28:06
Speaker 4: in this type of work that you've taken on?
28:12
Speaker 1: The biggest challenge for me personally has been working with
28:18
Speaker 1: populations that are not necessarily aligned with who I am.
28:24
Speaker 1: So everyone's unique in their own way. I have my background,
28:30
Speaker 1: you have yours, everyone else has theirs. And so for me,
28:35
Speaker 1: for the past couple of years, I've worked with a
28:39
Speaker 1: certain population that really has mirrored back to me a
28:42
Speaker 1: lot of what I already have within myself, but just
28:45
Speaker 1: in a very different way and in a very extreme way.
28:48
Speaker 1: And So I don't even call, honestly, I don't even
28:53
Speaker 1: see it as a challenge. I would say I see
28:55
Speaker 1: it as a blessing. There are days that I come
28:58
Speaker 1: home and I'm like, how dare they?
29:02
Speaker 2: Or how could they do this? Or I don't like
29:05
Speaker 2: this particular.
29:06
Speaker 1: You know, I have my own judgments and I have,
29:09
Speaker 1: which I view as a challenge temporarily. But when I
29:13
Speaker 1: sit back and look at it, I'm just asking myself,
29:17
Speaker 1: do I also have that? Do I also have a
29:20
Speaker 1: manipulator inside of me? Do I also have a controlling
29:24
Speaker 1: aspect to me?
29:25
Speaker 2: Do I also, have I also been repressed?
29:28
Speaker 1: Because I'm now dealing with many clients that have been
29:31
Speaker 1: repressed in some way or form, whether it's psychologically, physically, religiously, spiritually, um,
29:40
Speaker 1: And so for me, that's, that is.
29:43
Speaker 2: The biggest challenge, but it's also my biggest blessing.
29:45
Speaker 1: And it's probably, I would guess it's one of the
29:49
Speaker 1: lessons that I came and I chose to learn and
29:53
Speaker 1: I have to learn it through this.
29:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is really, really sound advice and a good
30:03
Speaker 4: perspective to just immediately notice that the challenge is the
30:06
Speaker 4: lesson and the blessing. So I'm curious if you have
30:11
Speaker 4: any words of advice for anybody listening out there that
30:15
Speaker 4: may be aware that there's still some repression or self-oppression
30:21
Speaker 4: that's still happening or maybe like culturally or generationally, if
30:26
Speaker 4: that's still alive for somebody, what would your advice be
30:29
Speaker 4: to them?
30:33
Speaker 1: So I have begun to think that we are our
30:39
Speaker 1: worst enemy.
30:40
Speaker 2: Humans are their own worst enemy. in the way that we.
30:45
Speaker 1: Are conditioned to think and believe that we have to
30:50
Speaker 1: keep our patterns going, many of which aren't even our own.
30:55
Speaker 2: We come into the world.
30:56
Speaker 1: With ancestral patterns based upon ancestral traumas and ancestral beliefs,
31:03
Speaker 1: and we inherit them. and we subconsciously take them on.
31:07
Speaker 1: And we go through our lifetime believing that we now
31:11
Speaker 1: have to act them out and we have to hold
31:13
Speaker 1: them and we have to honor.
31:14
Speaker 2: Them and pretty much live our lives according.
31:18
Speaker 1: To those thought processes and those beliefs and what our
31:23
Speaker 1: ancestors did. And my suggestion, my invitation is for people
31:30
Speaker 1: to always take a step back, take a moment, And
31:34
Speaker 1: sometimes we have to do deep work to get to
31:36
Speaker 1: that point. Notice what is mine, what isn't. And one
31:43
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I love doing inner work, such
31:46
Speaker 1: as breath work, hypnotherapy, plants medicine, is because we need
31:52
Speaker 1: to go beyond the thoughts. We need to go beyond
31:55
Speaker 1: the conscious mind.
31:56
Speaker 2: We need to go into the subconscious.
31:58
Speaker 1: Sometimes we need to go into the soul and understand
32:02
Speaker 1: what the soul is here for. And so my suggestion
32:06
Speaker 1: would be to take a step back and ask yourself,
32:09
Speaker 1: is this mine or is it someone else's? Is it
32:14
Speaker 1: something that was taught to me? Do I still need
32:16
Speaker 1: to keep this? Do I need, do I still need
32:18
Speaker 1: to guard it? Like my life depends on it or
32:22
Speaker 1: can I ease into something else? What is it that
32:26
Speaker 1: I want to create in my life? That would be
32:31
Speaker 1: my suggestion.
32:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you so much.
32:37
Speaker 4: You know, a lot of the conversation so far sounds
32:40
Speaker 4: to me like taking off and shedding layers and going
32:45
Speaker 4: deeper and deeper and deeper into liberation and into your
32:51
Speaker 4: true self, that core knowing and inner being.
32:56
Speaker 5: And that's the name of your podcast, right? Inner Light.
33:00
Speaker 5: So I think it's so important.
33:03
Speaker 4: For everybody that's on a personal development or spiritual or
33:08
Speaker 4: healing journey to understand that, you know, there's nothing wrong
33:14
Speaker 4: with having challenging experiences.
33:16
Speaker 5: It is part of the experience.
33:19
Speaker 4: And we can also choose to understand, like you're saying,
33:24
Speaker 4: what is ours, take responsibility for those things that are ours.
33:30
Speaker 4: And try to differentiate from the things that we want
33:34
Speaker 4: to carry versus maybe.
33:36
Speaker 5: Something that we no longer need to carry.
33:38
Speaker 4: And then from that shedding, we can actually start to
33:44
Speaker 4: build a strong and healthy foundation for what we want
33:47
Speaker 4: to bring into our life. So I really appreciate you
33:52
Speaker 4: sharing all that wisdom. And I feel like I could
33:54
Speaker 4: talk to you for hours. So I just want to
33:58
Speaker 4: ask you a couple more questions as we wrap up
34:01
Speaker 4: the episode. So first of all, I'm really curious what
34:06
Speaker 4: your approach is with.
34:09
Speaker 5: Navigating some of the inherent.
34:12
Speaker 4: Legal scope, maybe questions that therapists may come up with
34:17
Speaker 4: or other practitioners that maybe have a degree or a
34:21
Speaker 4: license to work with people in a certain way that's
34:25
Speaker 4: very regulated. And then if they want to bring in
34:28
Speaker 4: maybe some plant work, psychedelic work, ceremonial work, or any
34:33
Speaker 4: other piece that maybe is not very regulated or in
34:39
Speaker 4: the conventional space at all, like how did you navigate it?
34:43
Speaker 4: And what would your advice be to other practitioners that
34:45
Speaker 4: are listening that may be interested in offering some of
34:48
Speaker 4: these things?
34:49
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the way that I do it, and I
34:52
Speaker 1: can obviously speak for myself, and I know that there
34:56
Speaker 1: are legal ramifications for these things. The way that I
35:00
Speaker 1: do it is I go through my own journey. I
35:03
Speaker 1: have my experiences and then I decide I am ready
35:06
Speaker 1: now to bring this to my clients.
35:08
Speaker 2: And most of my clients will trust.
35:10
Speaker 5: Me on that.
35:12
Speaker 1: And they do their own homework and They decide if
35:15
Speaker 1: they're ready for it or we decide together. There's integration
35:19
Speaker 1: work that we do before, during, and after. And so
35:24
Speaker 1: it's really very much a one-on-one based as far as
35:27
Speaker 1: plant-based medicine goes. As far as cacao breathwork, psychedelic breathwork,
35:37
Speaker 1: and all of these other things, I can.
35:40
Speaker 2: Speak very much freely.
35:42
Speaker 1: You know, I have flyers all the time that are
35:44
Speaker 1: circulating and I'm doing these events everywhere.
35:47
Speaker 2: I even travel to different states.
35:50
Speaker 1: And so with that, I would say I feel more
35:52
Speaker 1: confident sharing and I, you know, publicizing my plant medicine.
35:58
Speaker 2: People are very much. kind of like.
36:02
Speaker 1: Homie, meaning they know who I am. They know who
36:05
Speaker 1: they're coming. They usually come through word of mouth. They
36:08
Speaker 1: have a friend or a family member that did a
36:10
Speaker 1: journey with me or did integration with me and they'll
36:13
Speaker 1: just reach out.
36:14
Speaker 2: So that's pretty.
36:16
Speaker 1: Much how I've kind of navigated myself. But I also
36:21
Speaker 1: find that things are really easing up. in general in
36:25
Speaker 1: the United States now.
36:28
Speaker 2: And most of that is because there's.
36:31
Speaker 1: Populations of people across different states and across different populations
36:37
Speaker 1: who are really opening up to plants medicine. There are
36:41
Speaker 1: more people going to journeys, there are more people doing ayahuasca,
36:45
Speaker 1: whether they're traveling to Peru or Mexico or the jungle,
36:50
Speaker 1: or they're just literally in Brooklyn in someone's basement. There's
36:54
Speaker 1: so many underground ceremonies happening now. And there's really, you know,
37:00
Speaker 1: I feel like there's no regulation.
37:03
Speaker 2: Like I do not know anyone that's ever gotten arrested.
37:06
Speaker 2: Let's put it this way.
37:08
Speaker 1: So for me, I'm confident in what I do and
37:11
Speaker 1: my medicine and what I offer to the world.
37:13
Speaker 2: And I love to share it.
37:15
Speaker 1: So I don't have a lot of legal advice or I.
37:21
Speaker 2: Don't have, I don't really have legal advice to give you.
37:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate you just being candid about
37:35
Speaker 4: your experience. And I think there is definitely a renaissance,
37:40
Speaker 4: like you were saying, a very much resurgent interest in
37:45
Speaker 4: these compounds, these plant medicines, these entheogens. I actually have
37:50
Speaker 4: interviewed a number of people on this show that do
37:56
Speaker 4: offer psychedelic plant medicine ceremonies, microdosing experiences, and some of
38:03
Speaker 4: them do have some safety precautions in place and maybe
38:09
Speaker 4: operate out of an indigenous church and have shamanic certifications
38:14
Speaker 4: and licenses in place.
38:15
Speaker 5: So That could be one option for people if you're interested.
38:19
Speaker 4: And I do also know there are therapists offering this.
38:24
Speaker 5: One-on-one work or even some group work.
38:26
Speaker 4: And, you know, I think we're going to come to
38:29
Speaker 4: a point where it's no longer going to be a
38:30
Speaker 4: gray area because we're going to have the data and
38:34
Speaker 4: the studies and the experiences to back up that safety
38:38
Speaker 4: profile that these medicines actually do have. And I'm actually
38:42
Speaker 4: researching it and writing about this in the in the
38:46
Speaker 4: recent past.
38:47
Speaker 5: I've been.
38:49
Speaker 4: Publishing information about this because, you know, I think there's
38:52
Speaker 4: still a lot of judgment and taboo around it because
38:56
Speaker 4: some of the substances were classified as schedule one in
39:00
Speaker 4: the past. But a lot of it was for political
39:04
Speaker 4: reasons and not for any safety reasons.
39:07
Speaker 5: So I think we definitely need to open the book
39:09
Speaker 5: back up on that.
39:11
Speaker 4: And, you know, a lot of clinics and spaces are
39:13
Speaker 4: opening that up and publishing more studies. And so I
39:17
Speaker 4: think we will hear a lot more conversation and a
39:22
Speaker 4: lot more possibly regulations will come about from that.
39:26
Speaker 5: And who knows if that's going to be good or bad. Yeah.
39:30
Speaker 5: I think it's definitely time to.
39:34
Speaker 4: To consider that safety and efficacy profile without that bias
39:41
Speaker 4: and also to establish some guidance and parameters so that
39:47
Speaker 4: it is done in a very intentional way and not
39:52
Speaker 4: a commodity. You know, you can't just... pop a plant
39:56
Speaker 4: pill and go on about your day.
40:00
Speaker 5: Like it will definitely take.
40:01
Speaker 4: Guidance and slowing down and the integration, like you were saying.
40:05
Speaker 4: And so we really need to talk about all of
40:09
Speaker 4: that as clinicians and practitioners and make sure that if
40:13
Speaker 4: you are wanting to experience this, that you do go
40:15
Speaker 4: to somebody that has all of that in place and
40:18
Speaker 4: isn't just trying to sell you a substance and, um,
40:22
Speaker 4: you know, go on about their day.
40:24
Speaker 5: So, yeah, I really appreciate, you know.
40:26
Speaker 4: Just you being open and transparent on that and, um,
40:30
Speaker 4: the ceremonies that you offer sound really interesting and I
40:33
Speaker 4: definitely would.
40:34
Speaker 5: Want to check them out someday. You know, and so as.
40:38
Speaker 4: We're wrapping up, I would also love your opinion about,
40:44
Speaker 4: because we were mentioning politics and the fact that you're
40:47
Speaker 4: an immigrant and I'm noticing that there's so much heat
40:53
Speaker 4: right now, again, with the Middle East and war and
41:00
Speaker 4: hate of different cultures towards one another. And there's people
41:07
Speaker 4: that are pointing fingers and taking sides. And a lot
41:10
Speaker 4: of people seem to be anti-Israel nowadays and very outspoken
41:14
Speaker 4: on social media. That's what I'm seeing in my feed
41:18
Speaker 4: these days.
41:18
Speaker 5: So I'm just curious how you.
41:22
Speaker 4: Navigate this because these times are, you know, just so
41:30
Speaker 4: volatile maybe. I mean, there's just so much overwhelm. And
41:35
Speaker 4: then we're also like exposed to so much on the
41:38
Speaker 4: news and the media. And so how would you approach that?
41:43
Speaker 4: And any advice to anybody there listening that also doesn't
41:46
Speaker 4: really know how to feel about all of this information?
41:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a very important topic and it's something
41:56
Speaker 1: that I have not really spoken very much publicly about.
42:01
Speaker 1: So I think that what's been happening for probably thousands
42:06
Speaker 1: of years, but even more so within the past few years,
42:11
Speaker 1: is that.
42:13
Speaker 2: Generally speaking, this is a world of polarity. I believe
42:19
Speaker 2: we live in a.
42:20
Speaker 1: Matrix where there's a dark side and a light side
42:23
Speaker 1: and there's everything in between. And so what's been happening
42:27
Speaker 1: is that the dark is not interested in what the
42:33
Speaker 1: light has to offer. So there have been forces in
42:38
Speaker 1: the world who have pretty much taken over who want
42:42
Speaker 1: to suck the life out of humans. And one of
42:46
Speaker 1: the ways that they do that is through politics. And
42:50
Speaker 1: they would love to divide and conquer. That's really, those
42:54
Speaker 1: are the two words, divide and conquer. When you divide humanity,
42:58
Speaker 1: when you raise people up and say, you belong here
43:01
Speaker 1: and you belong here and you have to go against
43:03
Speaker 1: each other, you're automatically creating friction. You're automatically creating war.
43:10
Speaker 1: And then they want people to feed into that. And
43:14
Speaker 1: so the algorithm will pick that up. And so you
43:17
Speaker 1: go on your phone and everything is about Israel or
43:20
Speaker 1: Palestine or, you know what I'm referring to.
43:24
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like, this is the agenda they
43:27
Speaker 2: want people to buy into. And so I decided... literally.
43:32
Speaker 1: On the eve of October 7th, that I was not
43:35
Speaker 1: going to post anything political. I had tons of friends
43:40
Speaker 1: who were literally paralyzed in pain because of what was happening.
43:45
Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong.
43:46
Speaker 1: I was in pain too. There was a lot that
43:49
Speaker 1: was coming up for me as well in terms of repression, anger,
43:53
Speaker 1: and everything else that was happening during that.
43:57
Speaker 2: Period of time.
43:58
Speaker 1: But I realized that there's something so much bigger at
44:01
Speaker 1: stake here that people are just not seeing. And that
44:06
Speaker 1: was that whole idea of, you know, they, they wanted
44:11
Speaker 1: to pretty much divide people so that people are going
44:14
Speaker 1: to fight against each other.
44:16
Speaker 2: And so then there's war and then who always benefits
44:19
Speaker 2: from a war, not the people.
44:23
Speaker 1: And so that is really my perspective on.
44:28
Speaker 2: All of that political aspect.
44:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely a, like we said, hot topic and controversial,
44:40
Speaker 4: and it's a big topic, but I really appreciate your
44:43
Speaker 4: perspective on it because you come from the culture and
44:48
Speaker 4: the background experience of that is directly connected to it.
44:52
Speaker 4: And also you're a therapist and a spiritual light worker,
44:57
Speaker 4: I would say. So, you know, I just, I felt
45:00
Speaker 4: it was really important for us to also bring some
45:04
Speaker 4: kind of perspective and guidance around this because I really
45:09
Speaker 4: do agree with you that there is definitely something bigger
45:13
Speaker 4: that's operating and pulling the strings. And it's not for
45:18
Speaker 4: the benefit of the people that are involved or even
45:21
Speaker 4: the people that are taking sides. And there's a book
45:26
Speaker 4: that I actually read recently that also commented on the
45:29
Speaker 4: light versus dark aspect.
45:32
Speaker 5: And it's called The Seed of the Soul, if anybody's interested.
45:35
Speaker 2: Is that Gary Bukoff?
45:36
Speaker 1: Yes.
45:37
Speaker 2: And like he says that the dark is.
45:38
Speaker 5: Just the absence of light, right?
45:45
Speaker 4: So I feel that, you know, it is our job
45:48
Speaker 4: to not get sucked in to the dark and for
45:52
Speaker 4: us to shine the lights and to shed the light
45:57
Speaker 4: into those dark places so that we're not playing into
46:02
Speaker 4: any agenda and we're just focused on what we believe
46:06
Speaker 4: to be right. And For us, it may be love
46:10
Speaker 4: and peace, brotherhood and sisterhood, and what we are united
46:17
Speaker 4: in and what makes us similar versus focusing on all
46:21
Speaker 4: those differences. Because whatever you look for, you're going to
46:24
Speaker 4: find it. So I think it's our personal choice that
46:30
Speaker 4: has to come with that, again, intentionality and to continue
46:35
Speaker 4: to focus on that, which we want and not what
46:39
Speaker 4: we don't want. So I'll just end it there. And
46:43
Speaker 4: if you have, yeah, I love this conversation, Kathy, thank
46:48
Speaker 4: you so much for your wisdom, everything you've shared about
46:52
Speaker 4: your journey and your perspective. If you have just two
46:55
Speaker 4: minutes left, I'd love to do a rapid fire round
46:58
Speaker 4: with you.
46:58
Speaker 5: Sure.
47:00
Speaker 1: All right.
47:01
Speaker 4: So what's the number one thing somebody can do right
47:05
Speaker 4: now to improve the quality of life?
47:10
Speaker 1: The number one thing would be if you can get
47:13
Speaker 1: up and move because movement.
47:17
Speaker 2: Is really important.
47:18
Speaker 1: Movement is what gets everything moving. It's not just physical.
47:22
Speaker 1: It's also emotional and spiritual as well.
47:28
Speaker 5: I love that. Life is movement. If you're not moving,
47:31
Speaker 5: you're dying.
47:32
Speaker 4: So you're inspiring me right after we end, I'm going
47:37
Speaker 4: to like run around my apartment.
47:39
Speaker 5: All right. Question two, what's a fun fact.
47:44
Speaker 4: Or a hobby that people may not know about you?
47:48
Speaker 1: Oh, well, I just started taking drumming lessons and This
47:57
Speaker 1: came about, I was in Mexico a couple months ago
48:01
Speaker 1: doing a journey with my breathwork facilitator.
48:06
Speaker 2: And we were in this beautiful maluka.
48:08
Speaker 1: And in this maluka, in that space, in the jungle,
48:13
Speaker 1: they actually do a lot of ayahuasca ceremonies. And so
48:16
Speaker 1: the ayahuasca chief has this huge drum. And so I
48:22
Speaker 1: was compelled to get up and literally just start drumming.
48:26
Speaker 2: And so I walked away.
48:28
Speaker 1: I came back home and I said, I connect so
48:30
Speaker 1: much to the drum now. You know, I got into
48:33
Speaker 1: that like, almost like, I don't want to say masculine,
48:37
Speaker 1: but it's very like primal, you know, drumming is very primal.
48:41
Speaker 1: And I got into that force. And so I've kind
48:45
Speaker 1: of like just been experimenting with the drum.
48:49
Speaker 5: Awesome. Yeah.
48:51
Speaker 4: I've been really into music as medicine recently too, and
48:55
Speaker 4: using my voice and singing and.
48:58
Speaker 5: Drumming and all of that.
48:59
Speaker 4: And, you know, I think all of it, like together,
49:03
Speaker 4: like what we do with our body, through our body,
49:06
Speaker 4: how we interact with the elements outside of us is
49:12
Speaker 4: what makes us human, you know, to go back to
49:15
Speaker 4: that thread.
49:16
Speaker 5: And that is the primal in us.
49:19
Speaker 4: And a lot of times we've disconnected from that and
49:24
Speaker 4: just now.
49:24
Speaker 5: Have a screen.
49:25
Speaker 4: Even this podcast, like, you know, we have a screen
49:28
Speaker 4: and we're in the computer and we're using AI and
49:31
Speaker 4: we're like in like literally in the matrix nowadays.
49:34
Speaker 5: Yeah.
49:35
Speaker 4: And so the more we can reconnect with those primal
49:38
Speaker 4: aspects of self, the better integrated and more of a
49:43
Speaker 4: whole person and experience we're actually going to be having.
49:45
Speaker 4: So I love that new hobby and I recommend everybody
49:51
Speaker 4: get in touch with whatever that is for you to
49:54
Speaker 4: help you feel in your body and using your whole
49:59
Speaker 4: self and putting your whole self somewhere.
50:01
Speaker 5: And getting that experience. So love that.
50:05
Speaker 4: And then the last thing is, what is next for
50:08
Speaker 4: you and your business?
50:10
Speaker 5: Like, what is your vision?
50:11
Speaker 4: What's coming next for inner light?
50:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, good question. So during my last ceremony.
50:20
Speaker 1: Which was last week, I actually, so when I do ceremonies,
50:27
Speaker 1: I'm a part of the ceremony. So for me, what
50:30
Speaker 1: came up was, and it's interesting because I usually do
50:34
Speaker 1: larger groups.
50:35
Speaker 2: I usually have.
50:36
Speaker 1: About 10, 12, and even more people in a ceremony.
50:39
Speaker 1: And last week I happened to just have four and
50:42
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be five and one canceled. And
50:45
Speaker 1: so I took these four individuals and everybody was sharing
50:49
Speaker 1: their feelings and people were just so open.
50:52
Speaker 2: And I realized that It was beautiful that people are.
50:56
Speaker 1: Able to share so much more when there's less people
50:59
Speaker 1: in a group.
51:00
Speaker 2: It's cozier.
51:02
Speaker 1: People just feel more, I guess, connected to each other.
51:06
Speaker 1: So they feel more free to expand. And so my
51:10
Speaker 1: next step, I'm thinking, would probably be to do smaller containers.
51:15
Speaker 1: And also the other thing that came to me during
51:18
Speaker 1: that journey was I need to do more integration work
51:20
Speaker 1: after these ceremonies. Because what happened was that I was
51:24
Speaker 1: able to then get on my phone and send a
51:28
Speaker 1: message to those people from the night before, the day after.
51:32
Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, thank you. I spoke to
51:35
Speaker 1: each one of them individually. And I said, well, you
51:37
Speaker 1: mentioned this and this. And I would love to see
51:40
Speaker 1: you grow in that. And why would you not journal
51:45
Speaker 1: about that? And one person shared about... something that they're experiencing.
51:49
Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, it kind of like just
51:52
Speaker 1: dawned on me that perhaps you could look at this
51:56
Speaker 1: particular area. And they all responded back and said, wow,
52:00
Speaker 1: that was amazing.
52:01
Speaker 2: Like, that's what we needed to hear.
52:02
Speaker 1: And I realized that I can only do that when
52:04
Speaker 1: I have a smaller group. And so what I find
52:08
Speaker 1: is that many people are going to all these birth
52:10
Speaker 1: work groups and sessions and all these things, but there's
52:13
Speaker 1: not enough integration.
52:14
Speaker 2: So people are walking away with what now, you know,
52:18
Speaker 2: they have an amazing, a great experience. And then they
52:22
Speaker 2: kind of go back into their life and.
52:25
Speaker 1: Somehow, you know, the messages get lost or they don't
52:28
Speaker 1: really incorporate what comes up for them. So for me,
52:32
Speaker 1: I think that at this point, I need to create
52:35
Speaker 1: those integration containers more so that I can actually help
52:39
Speaker 1: people kind of process what came up for them and
52:42
Speaker 1: help them move forward and transform even more expansely.
52:50
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that.
52:51
Speaker 4: Like the transformation can happen quick, but then in order
52:57
Speaker 4: to integrate that and maintain it, that is a little
53:01
Speaker 4: bit slower and it definitely needs more support.
53:04
Speaker 5: So that's such a great offering. And I look forward
53:08
Speaker 5: to following your work, Kathy. Thank you again.
53:11
Speaker 4: And please tell the audience how they can follow you
53:13
Speaker 4: too and learn more about you.
53:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I actually started a podcast a couple of
53:20
Speaker 1: months ago. I was very much inspired by my own
53:25
Speaker 1: journey and also people doing plant medicines. And there was
53:29
Speaker 1: a lot happening within the first few episodes about plant
53:31
Speaker 1: medicine and just holistic, you know, holistic care, healing, anything
53:37
Speaker 1: related to healing. And that's what I decided to do.
53:41
Speaker 1: talk about and I've had a couple of beautiful guests
53:44
Speaker 1: so far and it's called the inner light podcast so
53:50
Speaker 1: that's a podcast and I do have a website which
53:54
Speaker 1: is called innerlighttherapy.us And that is pretty much everything related
54:00
Speaker 1: to therapy, individual sessions, group sessions, information about me, my contacts,
54:05
Speaker 1: and everything else is there. And also on Instagram, I
54:09
Speaker 1: am on innerlighttherapy111. You could find me there as well.
54:14
Speaker 5: All right.
54:16
Speaker 2: I look forward to connecting with you all. Yeah, beautiful.
54:19
Speaker 5: I'll have all of that in the show notes.
54:21
Speaker 4: Thank you again so much for coming on and I
54:24
Speaker 4: hope to hear from you soon.
54:26
Speaker 2: And thank you so much for having me. It's been
54:28
Speaker 2: a pleasure.
54:30
Speaker 5: Likewise, take care.
54:31
Speaker 3: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the
54:34
Speaker 3: Holistic Pharmacy Podcast. And I truly hope you enjoyed the show.
54:39
Speaker 3: If you learned something useful in this episode, please consider
54:42
Speaker 3: giving the show a five-star rating and a sincere review
54:45
Speaker 3: so that more people can find it. or share it
54:48
Speaker 3: with a friend directly. To get in touch with me,
54:51
Speaker 3: you can find me on social media by looking up
54:53
Speaker 3: my name, Marina Buksov, or email me at marina at rawfork.com.
55:00
Speaker 5: Take good care and see you soon.