Latest / The Bluegrass Blues Podcast / The Bluegrass Blues Podcast: Episode 3

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The Bluegrass Blues Podcast: Episode 3 · The Bluegrass Blues Podcast

0:00
Hey, this is the bluegrass blues podcast. I'm
0:04
Amy and I'm Jesse Okay This week we're going
0:14
to do something different We're not going to
0:16
start with politics, although we will probably
0:18
get into politics somewhere along the line But
0:21
let's talk about the arts because the arts is
0:23
a big deal in Kentucky and there are a lot of
0:26
artistic things going on here both in terms of
0:29
you know, textiles and museums and also what
0:36
else? Textiles, museums and music. That's right.
0:41
So, well, we're a week from the Derby and let's
0:46
talk about the Derby because that happened. That
0:48
was a big event. It always is a big event in
0:51
Kentucky, especially in Louisville. You know,
0:54
the Derby is kind of like having the Super Bowl.
0:58
in your own city every year. It's like a guaranteed
1:02
Super Bowl or a guaranteed World Series in Louisville.
1:06
And people come from all over the world. And
1:09
some of the things that, you know, you go to
1:11
the Derby, you see the nice fashions. People
1:14
are dressed up really nicely. The horses are
1:17
looking really good. But there seems to be something
1:21
missing from the Derby. And I'm going to get
1:23
into the the ugliness of it. And that's the fact
1:27
that there are no black jockeys in the derby
1:29
and that's really interesting because if you
1:31
go back to the beginning of the Kentucky Derby
1:34
when it started out there were black jockeys
1:39
all over the place because they were like just
1:42
the major contributors to horse racing. It was
1:46
part of the world of slavery and I think right
1:49
at the beginning if you look at the first probably
1:52
couple of decades of the derby it was dominated
1:55
by black jockeys. And the reason I'm talking
1:58
about black jockeys is because there's an exhibit
2:01
today at the, what's it called? The Kentucky
2:05
Center for African American Heritage. Right,
2:07
and it's called the Quilts of Dr. Eugene Poole
2:10
Jr. And what it is is just a quilted, a huge
2:15
quilt, all featuring black jockeys from the 1800s
2:19
and 1900s. And if you look at the Kentucky Derby's
2:23
history, like black jockeys were And they were
2:26
just a significant part of the event. I've read
2:31
that when the first probably 30 races were run,
2:35
more than half of them were won by black jockeys.
2:39
And then they kind of disappeared. But let's
2:42
talk about the exhibit, first of all. Amy and
2:46
I went to the exhibit a couple of weeks ago,
2:49
and it really is impressive. It's just these
2:51
huge quilts and this... a person named Dr. Eugene
2:56
Poole put them together. He sewed them and they
3:00
just feature black jockeys from the beginning
3:03
of... of the Kentucky Derby's heritage. And he's
3:06
from Western Kentucky and he said his inspiration
3:09
was his granddad who was a tailor in the small
3:12
town that he grew up in and that's how he got
3:15
started with fiber arts. That's interesting and
3:18
it really is an impressive exhibit. I don't think
3:21
it cost anything to get into it. No, it's just
3:23
a free exhibit in the West End. There are at
3:27
least, I think, at least 15 quilts there. And
3:32
the thing about the quilts, too, is that they're
3:34
all for sale. So if you have... tens of thousands
3:38
of dollars you can buy yourself a quilt or just
3:42
for exhibit purposes. Not tens of thousands per
3:45
quilt. Oh well let's see I do have the prices
3:47
here and like one of them goes for ten thousand
3:51
dollars another goes for seventeen thousand dollars
3:53
so okay more than ten thousand dollars if you
3:55
have that in your your spare change, which billionaires
3:59
have so we know that but they're really interesting
4:02
to look at and it you know it gets into this
4:06
idea of here are the people who dominated the
4:09
derby at the very beginning and they disappeared
4:12
and why did that happen? It looks like of course
4:17
race is always an issue and race is an issue
4:20
here too. Ebony magazine did a piece back in
4:25
earlier this month on where did the all the black
4:27
jockeys go and it was because Jim Crow laws that
4:33
at the turn of the century that just black jockeys
4:36
were being phased out of the sport there was
4:40
the ideologies of white horse owners and trainers
4:43
and Then there were white jockeys who were like
4:47
Committing violence against the black jockeys.
4:50
So they just disappeared from the sport and there
4:53
was Something I read where it said that Probably
4:59
that there were no black jockeys at the Derby
5:02
between 1921 and 2000 which is just you know,
5:07
that's 80 years and they had just been erased
5:11
from the sport and If you look at this year's
5:15
Derby, there were no black jockeys at all. So,
5:18
you know it kind of Illustrates that there was
5:23
there has been discrimination at the Derby which
5:28
is reflected just in the fact that there are
5:31
no blacks working on the grounds, or if they're
5:34
working on the grounds, they're doing like custodial
5:37
kind of stuff. They're not doing, there are few
5:40
trainers. There are few, no jockeys practically
5:44
anymore. And the backside is all Latinx folks
5:47
that are very exploited. Right. And that's also
5:51
the thing about the industry is there is a lot
5:54
of exploitation of oppressed groups within it.
5:58
but you know it's just the idea that the history
6:02
of the derby it was sort of founded on the success
6:06
of having black jockeys and there are i don't
6:09
know if there are any black horse owners but
6:11
i'm sure there must have been over the years
6:13
but i don't think there are very many because
6:16
as we've said before the derby is a sport for
6:20
very rich people and You go to the Derby, you
6:26
spend thousands of dollars to an infield ticket.
6:30
When I was younger, it might have been $20. Now,
6:34
if you're going in the infield, no seat. you'll
6:37
have to pay $350. And you really don't see the
6:40
race from the end. It's not about the race. Getting
6:44
in the infield in the derby is just about having
6:47
a party, getting drunk, and I have some bad stories
6:50
about experiencing drunk people at the derby.
6:54
Well, I'll tell my story about the drunk people
6:57
at the derby. I spent a bunch of money several
7:00
years ago to go to the derby. the people sitting
7:04
in the box next to us and we spent thousands
7:06
of dollars for our box the people in the box
7:09
next to us just started drinking from the first
7:13
race of the day through the whole day and you
7:18
know when people get drunk they get loud and
7:20
they get obnoxious and so these people had been
7:24
drinking all day it was like okay we're going
7:27
to tolerate this because yes it's a good time
7:29
everybody's having fun Mint juleps and all. They're
7:32
so tasty. Yes, they are. And, you know, after
7:35
hours of listening to them, like, just be obnoxious,
7:41
the actual Kentucky Derby is run and they started
7:46
throwing up in the box next to us at the beginning
7:49
of the race and they didn't stop until the end
7:51
of the race. So, you know, it's like you spend
7:53
thousands of dollars to go to the Derby and you
7:56
just have to deal with that. You know, that's
7:59
just my experience. I'm not going to anymore
8:02
derbies unless someone buys a ticket for me.
8:06
Well, and I wanted to mention Hunter S. Thompson's
8:08
article. entitled, The Kentucky Derby is Decadent
8:13
and Depraved. It was published in June of 1970
8:17
about the Derby, and it really marked the birth
8:20
of gonzo journalism, which, you know, he started.
8:25
And his article focuses less on the actual race
8:28
itself and more on the... the depravity that
8:31
surrounds the event. And he describes the atmosphere
8:34
as one of drunken excess and moral decay, which
8:39
he saw as a reflection of the broader cultural
8:42
issues of the time. Well, fast forward, it doesn't
8:45
seem like it's changed that much. Right. And
8:47
he wrote this during the Nixon administration.
8:49
So, you know, he had this he had this fixation
8:52
about Nixon being evil. And you know we have
8:56
this now fixation about another president being
8:59
evil but it's it's just interesting to see that
9:03
things haven't changed it's like that that was
9:06
written what back in the 1970s and we're 50 years
9:10
later yeah and you know it's still Decadent and
9:14
depraved and I I also want to mention another
9:18
piece of historical racism But my old Kentucky
9:21
home has been sung the history of the song it
9:25
was sung frequently in minstrel shows by white
9:29
men wearing blackface and it has been sung at
9:33
every Kentucky Derby since 1930 What do you think
9:37
that says well for one? It's the state song so
9:40
you have to keep that in mind, but it's also
9:43
If you watch the broadcast of the Derby, and
9:48
I've watched it for the past couple of years
9:50
because, you know, being in Louisville, I have
9:52
to watch the Derby. But every time they start
9:56
singing My Old Kentucky Home, the person, the
9:59
commentator for the event is saying, this has
10:02
a very charged history. Or, you know, it's like
10:04
they don't want to say, oh, this is considered
10:07
a racist song because it's about living on a
10:09
plantation. It's about a slave who's been sold.
10:14
from his plantation and had to leave his family
10:18
behind because in the days of slavery, that's
10:22
what happened. Families were broken up. And so
10:25
he was singing about the slave in the song is
10:29
singing about missing his old Kentucky home because
10:32
that's where his family was, not because it's
10:36
like the land of opportunity or the land of freedom.
10:39
It's just I've been taken away from my family.
10:41
I wish I was with my family and it was in Kentucky,
10:46
but it's sung every year at the Derby. There
10:53
is a history to it that can be offensive to people,
10:59
but it's something that's... There's this idea
11:02
of tradition, then you have to maintain traditions,
11:06
even when traditions are not pleasant. And that's
11:10
kind of... very strange approach to looking at
11:14
things, but you know, there's also, well, there's
11:17
also just also the idea of horse racing in general.
11:21
And, you know, these are, when you look at it,
11:25
these are three -year -olds, and horses at three
11:28
-year -old, they're babies, essentially. But,
11:31
you know, maybe someone translates this to dog
11:34
years, like three years for a horse is seven
11:37
years for a human, I don't know. Yeah, I mean,
11:39
and I did some research on this. And according
11:42
to HISSA, that's the Horse Raising Integrity
11:46
and Safety Authority, more horses die training
11:50
on racetracks in Kentucky than anywhere else.
11:54
barely made the news, but three -year -old Gelding
11:58
Valley of Fire fractured both front legs during
12:01
morning training on April 24th and was immediately
12:05
euthanized just nine days before the Kentucky
12:07
Derby. And in 2024, 161 horses died in training,
12:16
15 in Kentucky. and six at Churchill Downs. And
12:19
again, these are two and three year old horses.
12:22
I mean, can you imagine if this happened to human
12:24
babies? You know, what about the sanctity of
12:28
life and all the things? Yeah. And this is, you
12:32
know, horses are their legs. You look at their
12:35
legs. They're very spindly. And these are on
12:38
thousand pound animals. So, you know, one misstep
12:42
or it always scares me when I watch something
12:45
like the derby, which has More horses in it than
12:48
most races like I've been to racetracks and you
12:51
know a race might have four or five horses and
12:55
the the Kentucky Derby has almost 20 horses running
12:58
at once and you look at them coming out of the
13:01
starting gate and they're all converging on looking
13:04
for the best position and I just don't know how
13:06
you don't see more like tumbling and more horses
13:11
getting hurt and more jockeys getting hurt. The
13:14
fact is that the winning jockey in this year's
13:17
Kentucky Derby was hurt a few weeks earlier and
13:20
they were questioning whether he'd be able to
13:22
ride because he had an accident on his horse.
13:28
I don't know, but there are people who say, well,
13:31
you know, these horses are bred for running and
13:34
they love to run and all this other stuff. And
13:36
you know, it's like it's in their nature and
13:38
you look at them on the, and it's a beautiful
13:40
to watch them run. And it is beautiful to watch
13:41
them run when they're by themselves. But if they
13:47
are having so much fun running and if it's like
13:51
they're enjoying themselves, why do you see in
13:54
the back stretch when they're going toward the
13:56
finish line, the jockeys. whipping them as hard
13:59
as they can to get more out of them. That doesn't
14:01
seem like someone having fun. That seems like
14:05
they're being forced to do something that they
14:08
wouldn't ordinarily be doing. Exactly. And institutional
14:14
racism, it's not for poor people. This is an
14:18
event for rich white people. Let's be very clear
14:20
about this. And interestingly, an irony is that
14:24
Churchill Downs planned nearly a billion dollar
14:28
expansion, which is now on hold due to Trump's
14:31
tariffs. So I guess even rich white people can't
14:35
have nice things sometimes. Yeah. Well, with
14:38
the tariffs, technically, you know, the rich
14:40
white people could pay for it themselves, you
14:42
know, as investors. But, you know, it's again,
14:46
the Derby isn't something that's for. poor people
14:50
at all. And maybe it was for poor people back
14:52
in the 1800s or early 20th century, but today
14:56
it's just a very affluent event. And there's
15:00
just one other thing I want to raise about the
15:02
Derby that has bothered me over the years. And
15:06
for the past, even though I haven't been to the
15:08
Derby every year, whenever I'm in Louisville,
15:10
I always walk by Churchill Downs on the day of
15:14
the Derby just to see what's going on outside,
15:16
which You know, if you're reading the local newspaper,
15:19
you're never going to hear about. But it's like
15:22
a convention of religious fanatics. When you
15:25
go outside the Derby, there's every church or
15:29
every pretend church out there with someone like
15:33
preaching damnation and hellfire. And it's really
15:37
kind of odd because, you know, you have these
15:40
people in their fancy Derby dress and, you know,
15:43
men in nice suits. women with the hats and these
15:47
really beautiful gowns or beautiful dresses and
15:52
then there's this this religious nut who's just
15:57
screaming at them saying you're going to hell
15:58
for this you know and and it's like i i've been
16:03
to other big sporting events since we started
16:06
talking with this about this being like a super
16:08
bowl every year i have never been to a super
16:10
bowl but i've been to NBA playoff games, I've
16:14
been to World Series games, I've been to college
16:19
basketball championships and you never see that
16:23
outside these other places and these are these
16:26
are taking place in places like Columbus, Ohio
16:28
or Phoenix, Arizona, and these are not liberal
16:33
bastions. But whenever you go to the Derby, there's
16:36
always some religious crazy person screaming
16:39
at the top of their lungs about everyone going
16:41
to hell for going to the Derby. And I never could
16:45
understand why, given the police presence at
16:49
the Derby too. If you go to the Derby... When
16:53
I went I went by Thursday for Thurby and Thurby's
16:57
like, you know that it's an extension of the
16:59
Derby weekend and that's where you know, not
17:02
the Biggest event of the week, but there was
17:06
this huge military presence outside of Churchill
17:09
Downs. They blocked off streets They just closed
17:13
off all of Central Avenue There there were just
17:18
these military vehicles. There were soldiers
17:20
there And as you get closer to the Derby, it
17:24
expands even more. So things like demonstrations
17:29
are never going to happen at the Derby. You think
17:32
that if you're going to make your voice heard
17:34
at something, you would go to something like
17:37
the Derby to protest. That's never going to happen
17:39
because the police are going to get you out of
17:41
there. The military is going to get you out of
17:42
there immediately. And the other thing I want
17:46
to raise about the Derby is I've seen some of
17:48
the most offensive things being sold outside
17:52
of Churchill Downs. While Biden was president,
17:57
I would see these people selling t -shirts saying,
18:00
"Joe and the Ho must go." And again, I'm thinking,
18:04
well, while I'm thinking this is totally tasteless,
18:08
why don't they do something about getting rid
18:10
of these? Offensive things because you know there
18:13
are children going to the Derby what and like
18:16
some five -year -olds gonna ask his mom. What's
18:18
a Ho? but they just don't get rid of them and
18:24
the other thing that kind of bothers me about
18:26
that is that the people selling those kinds of
18:29
things know there's a market for that there among
18:33
the Derby crowd, which is kind of troubling so
18:37
Anyway, this has been my rant on the Derby this
18:42
year and I'm probably going to rant about it
18:44
again next year, but it's going to always happen.
18:46
It's always going to be here. I want to mention
18:49
too, you know, compulsive gambling obviously
18:51
is a problem. Gambling has been really monopolized
18:57
by Churchill Downs and the thoroughbred horse
19:00
racing industry. Whenever legislation has come
19:04
up to have a boat like Indiana does or other
19:07
states around us have, it's all been concentrated
19:11
with Churchill Downs, Keeneland horse racing.
19:16
So follow the money. Right and the other thing
19:18
I noticed that just this week is I was reading
19:21
a story about the Kentucky Oaks and it was in
19:24
the Courier Journal and at the very bottom of
19:27
the story there was this long disclaimer about
19:30
the evils of gambling and also noting that the
19:32
Courier Journal or Gannett has a deal where they
19:36
promote gambling. So, you know, they're saying,
19:41
don't do this. It's like, you know, you could
19:42
lose your life, but we're going to sponsor it.
19:46
There's just no logic to what's being done there.
19:51
But anyway, I started out by talking about the
19:55
race at the racetrack kind of issue. Again, going
20:01
back to the quilts, the quilts are beautiful.
20:03
They are works of art. They are definitely worth
20:05
seeing. And there's a lot of other stuff at the
20:08
museum that's also worth checking out. So if
20:11
you get a chance, I would advise going to it
20:14
because it really is an interesting exhibit.
20:15
And it does give you some historical perspective.
20:19
They give out a nice brochure that gives the
20:22
names of all the black jockeys who won the early
20:26
derbies, their history. how they overcame certain
20:32
things in order to ride in the Derby, how they
20:35
left, ended up leaving Kentucky because of the
20:39
discrimination, and it's really worth, you know,
20:42
it's a nice history lesson. It's one of these,
20:44
how do I say this, one of these DEI lessons that
20:50
the Trump administration doesn't want anybody,
20:52
and the Republicans in the Kentucky legislature,
20:55
don't want anybody to deal with. Again, it's
20:58
worth seeing and I would recommend it highly
21:01
and it's free and free is always great. And the
21:03
facility itself, the Kentucky Center for African
21:06
American Heritage in the west end of Louisville
21:09
is a gem. It is a tremendously beautiful asset
21:13
to our community and one of the ways to resist
21:17
institutional racism and the eradication of DEI
21:22
is to go and support them and hold events there
21:27
and showcase the artists that they're lifting
21:30
up. Speaking of eradication of our collective
21:34
history, I just want to mention a couple concerts
21:38
that I'm singing in coming up. And it's based
21:42
on the Underground Railroad, which, by the way,
21:45
did exist. And Harriet Tubman was like a real
21:48
person, Jesse. Did you know that? Yes, of course.
21:51
So we're lifting up African -American spirituals,
21:55
and some of the songs include Didn't My Lord
21:58
Deliver Daniel, which is arranged by Moses Hogan,
22:02
and Soon I Will Be Done by William Dawson, Freedom's
22:06
Plow we're singing, and the lyrics are by Langston
22:09
Hughes, and the music is by Rollo Dilworth, and
22:13
Follow the Drinking Gourd is arranged by Alan
22:16
Kepke. There are other songs too. I love singing
22:21
these songs. Yes, I'm Jewish. Yes, I'm white.
22:25
But, you know, these songs lift up the experience
22:28
of enslaved black people in this country and
22:31
literally give life and possibility for a better
22:35
future. For example, Follow the Drinking Gourd
22:39
is an amazing song and it's filled with coded
22:43
messages. which gave runaways the route to freedom
22:47
for fellow slaves to follow as they fled north
22:50
out of Alabama and Mississippi during the mid
22:52
-1800s. And hundreds of conductors on the Underground
22:57
Railroad used songs like this to teach slaves
23:02
specific routes they could take. So in this specific
23:05
song, the drinking gourd was the Big Dipper,
23:09
which pointed the way to the North Star and the
23:12
path to freedom. So while critical race theory,
23:16
which explains systemic racism, is being eradicated
23:20
in educational institutions as our key figures
23:23
like Harriet Tubman, I'm so glad we're lifting
23:26
up these songs and our very real racist history.
23:30
And I just want to tell you there are two concerts
23:33
that my group Voches Nove is performing and they're
23:37
called A Stop on the Underground Railroad because
23:41
We are singing them at Second Baptist Church
23:43
in New Albany, Indiana, which was on a church
23:47
on the Underground Railroad. And the concerts
23:50
are Saturday, May 31st at 3 p .m., Sunday, June
23:54
1st at 7 p .m. And you can purchase tickets today
23:58
at vocesnovaelouisville .com. And I'm going to spell
24:03
it, V -O -C -E -S. N -O -V -A -E, Louisville,
24:08
L -O -U -I -S -V -I -L -L -E dot com. Come. It's
24:13
like a real history lesson. And Jesse, thank
24:18
you so much. You and your wife Terry are coming.
24:21
And I also know that you have a personal story
24:23
about the Underground Railroad. Well, I do. I've
24:26
been doing some family history. And just going
24:30
back to the... really back to the 18th and 19th
24:34
century. The Underground Railroad actually has
24:40
played a role in my family's life. My third great
24:44
grandfather was a slave owner. One of his slaves
24:49
was the woman he had 11 children with. He was
24:53
a bachelor. They had 11 children and that was...
24:57
It was really his family. This was in West ..., well,
25:00
Virginia, now West Virginia. And when he died,
25:05
I believe it was 1843, on the day he died, he
25:10
realized he didn't have a will, and he wanted
25:12
to free his family. And it was treated as his
25:16
family, because I've seen the transcript of the
25:19
trial that followed on the contestation of the
25:23
will. In the will, he just said, I want to sell
25:27
my property, I want the money to go to my family,
25:31
and I want that money to be used to relocate
25:33
them to Pennsylvania. But he died without signing.
25:38
As he was about to sign the will, he died. He
25:41
just passed out and never woke up again. So the
25:45
family, the woman and her children... were concerned
25:52
because they knew that his family was going to
25:54
contest the will and they wanted to keep the
25:56
slaves. So one day they ran away. By the time
26:04
this happened, they were down to six children.
26:07
One of the older children had already run away
26:09
with his family and she had run away with the
26:13
remaining children. They were chased by the slave
26:17
owners and eventually they were caught. What
26:22
she told her oldest son, who was 16 at the time,
26:26
was, keep running. We're going to go back. They
26:30
tell us that the will will be honored. We don't
26:33
really know and, you know, really can't trust
26:35
anyone. So you keep running. And he ran using
26:40
the Underground Railroad. He was in Virginia.
26:44
He made his way to Pennsylvania. Along the course,
26:47
you know, he had eluded slave chasers and when
26:53
he got into Pennsylvania he met some of the most
26:57
famous abolitionists of the time and they helped
27:01
him they just guided him through things like
27:04
barber shops and through houses that people were
27:09
hiding slaves in and He made his way through
27:13
Pennsylvania. At one instance in Pennsylvania
27:17
there was a bunch of bounty hunters who were
27:23
looking for slaves and he notified a person who
27:28
was really big in the abolitionist movement and
27:32
they got guns and they went face to face against
27:37
the slave chasers. and ran them out of town and
27:41
told them if they ever came back, they would
27:43
be killed. And they never came back. But anyway,
27:47
in the course of his journey, he also made his
27:49
way into Ohio, into Oberlin, Ohio, which has
27:54
a very famous university. And one of the things
27:57
about Oberlin University was that it was originated
28:03
by, essentially, kids who left another school
28:06
that refused to talk about abolition. And they
28:10
went to Oberlin and a new school was formed.
28:13
They were abolitionist. It was one of the first
28:16
schools to also admit women. And so he managed
28:21
to get his way to Oberlin and they protected
28:24
him there as well. Now, the reason I know this
28:27
is because, number one, I know about the contestation
28:32
of the will because that went all the way to
28:35
the Virginia Supreme Court. And I have a transcript
28:37
of that case. and I know about the Underground
28:41
Railroad journey because the the the runaway
28:47
wrote a book and he detailed how he got through
28:53
Virginia with help of people and through Pennsylvania
28:55
with the help of people and into Ohio and he
28:58
eventually made his way to Canada because if
29:02
you went into Ohio, you would get toward Lake
29:06
Erie. And that was an access point where you
29:11
could get a ferry from Cleveland to Canada. So
29:16
he made his way to Canada. Eventually he found
29:18
out that his family did win the court case. And
29:22
so he came back to the United States realizing
29:25
he was a free man, but he still was involved
29:28
in these ... He still make friends among these abolitionists
29:32
and they are very important people in history.
29:35
I'm going to compile all this into like sort
29:37
of family history and hopefully I can pass it
29:41
off as a book at some time. And you raised the
29:45
issue, Amy, about Harriet Tubman. The Pulitzer
29:49
Prize for history this year was awarded to a
29:52
book about Harriet Tubman. It was called Combee:
29:55
Harriet Tubman, the Combatee River Raid, and Black
29:58
Freedom during the Civil War. And in this book,
30:02
it talked about a slave rebellion where about,
30:06
well, almost 800 enslaved people were freed in
30:11
one day because of the strategy that Harriett
30:14
Tubman had put together to get them out of slavery
30:18
and the help of people like the Underground Railroad
30:20
and the abolitionist movement and all the important
30:23
things that happened. pre -civil war so you know
30:28
it is a part of history again this is this goes
30:32
back into the arts again where we're talking
30:34
about you know reflecting this in music and reflecting
30:37
this in textiles and reflecting this in in literature
30:40
so all these things are things that we can maintain
30:47
or we can keep there there's a record of history
30:50
that's not going to be suppressed. by forces
30:54
that want to suppress these histories. So I would
30:57
recommend that book. If I ever write my book,
31:00
I would recommend my book. But these are things
31:03
just to be aware of and things that we can keep
31:08
up with in terms of just racial relations, what
31:14
history has been, how it has treated people.
31:17
things that you shouldn't forget, even though
31:20
people want you to forget them, like the Kentucky
31:23
legislature passing laws that are erasing anything
31:27
referring to DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion
31:30
in the Commonwealth, where they're trying not
31:32
to teach children about history. The reason they
31:40
give is that they don't want white children to
31:44
feel bad about themselves. to me says that you
31:48
know that's to me kind of a racist statement
31:52
because it's saying that being called a racist
31:57
is be is worse than being the victim of racism
32:00
which you know it just doesn't make any sense.
32:03
But anyway, those are a couple of things that
32:06
we've been looking at and following. I just wanted
32:10
to mention too that, you know, these things do
32:13
illuminate our history as a country. And I think
32:17
for a lot of us who... We're grieving the loss
32:22
of what we perceived as our democracy with this
32:26
authoritarian regime that's trying to take control
32:30
right now. It's important for us to really understand
32:34
the roots and history of this country. It's not
32:39
great, right? So yeah, we're losing a lot, but
32:43
there's still a long way to go. This is also
32:49
something that we can't forget. You don't erase
32:54
history because history repeats itself. And what
32:59
we're going through now, to me, is a repetition
33:01
of history because this is... I grew up during
33:06
the civil rights era. I'm going to be 70 very
33:10
soon. I remember watching on TV the, you know,
33:17
the dogs being sicked on children in Selma and
33:21
the fire hoses being turned on people. And I
33:25
remember looking at the old copies of Jet and
33:30
Ebony Magazine on the Emmett Till murder. And
33:34
I remember the civil rights workers who were
33:37
killed in the South, the three... the three civil
33:41
rights workers, one of whom was sort of a protector
33:45
of Robert Reich, the former commerce secretary.
33:49
Robert Reich did a recent discussion on how he
33:53
remembered, I think it was Schwermer was the
33:56
person's name, and he was, Reich was a little
33:59
guy, and he was bullied by other children, and
34:03
this kid, Schwermer, became his protector. And
34:07
that shows that there are people who are looking
34:11
out for people who are being abused or people
34:14
who are being bullied or people who are being
34:16
oppressed. And these people, they can't be forgotten
34:20
in history, even though that's the intention
34:23
of what a lot of things are, in terms of the
34:26
education system, especially in conservative
34:29
areas, is trying to do. Let's hide the books
34:33
that talk about the days of slavery. Let's pretend
34:37
that My Old Kentucky Home is a song about longing,
34:42
just how great it is to be in Kentucky and how
34:45
much I miss being there when it's actually a
34:48
song about a person who's been oppressed and
34:51
trying to... reunite with his family. And Jesse,
34:55
I was bused the first year of busing here in
34:59
Louisville, which as you all will recall, there
35:03
were many race riots here. A lot of white families
35:06
pulled their white children out of the public
35:08
school system and put them into private parochial
35:11
schools. And, you know, of course, even today,
35:16
we still are discussing whether, you know, busing
35:20
is the right thing to do or people should have
35:22
their neighborhood schools and, you know, whether
35:25
integration of education even works. But I wanted
35:29
to kind of segue into, you know, again, this
35:32
history of suppression and we've been talking
35:35
about for black folks, right? There's a really
35:39
good exhibit at the Speed Museum right now that
35:42
Jesse's been to. I'm going to tomorrow. And it
35:45
talks about women. Jesse, why don't you tell
35:47
us a little bit about the exhibit? Right. The
35:49
exhibit's called Brilliant Exiles, American Women
35:51
in Paris, 1900 to 1939. And the history of it
35:57
is that there are a lot of women in the United
36:00
States who, you know, this is like around the
36:03
time where women couldn't vote and they didn't
36:05
have rights and they were always... you know,
36:08
just told to be nice housewives and be quiet.
36:11
But there are women, these artists who were not
36:16
able to express their vision or express their
36:20
art in the United States. And what they did was
36:23
they went to Paris. And, you know, for all the
36:27
criticism that people have against France, I
36:30
really like France. I think it's a great place.
36:32
And it's a super tol ... It was super tolerant.
36:36
back in the day, in the early 20th century. And
36:41
so these women who could not be represented or
36:46
who were not able to present their visions just
36:50
went to Paris to thrive. And I'm just gonna...
36:57
read some names of the women who are featured
37:00
in this. There's Josephine Baker, who is this
37:03
famous black woman dancer who was just adored
37:07
in Paris. There was Isadora Duncan, the famous
37:11
ballet dancer. Zelda Fitzgerald, F. Scott Fitzgerald's
37:17
wife, but in the American interpretation of her,
37:21
she was seen as like this. this crazy woman who,
37:25
you know, just Scott had to calm down because
37:29
she had the vapors or whatever they called it
37:32
back then. Let's see who else is here. Peggy
37:36
Guggenheim. That's like the Guggenheim fortune
37:38
of New York. You know, the fact that a rich woman
37:42
could not find her voice. A rich white woman.
37:44
Yeah, in the United States and had to go to Paris
37:47
to thrive is just amazing. There's also Edna
37:51
St. Vincent Millay, the poet. There's Anais Nin,
37:55
one of the great writers of fiction back in the
37:59
early 20th century. Katherine Ann Porter. Also
38:04
Gertrude Stein was ... Gertrude Stein essentially.
38:10
helped the modern art movement thrive because people
38:14
would go to her salon and just, you know, talk
38:18
about the arts. And if you go to any museum,
38:21
you'll see like a portrait of Gertrude Stein
38:23
done by Pablo Picasso. Those are the people she
38:26
was hanging around. Black women, queer women.
38:30
Right. Ethel Waters, one of the great singers
38:32
and entertainers in American history, was also
38:35
there. And Anna Mae Wong, who was this famous
38:38
Chinese actress back in the well again in the
38:43
early 20th century and you know she had to go
38:47
through the her own version of racism because
38:50
the racism against Asians It was just as bad
38:54
as the racism against blacks and there were laws
38:58
Kind of like laws that are being passed today
39:01
that excluded people from certain countries from
39:03
coming into the United States that's just You
39:07
know, again, this is the idea that, you know,
39:10
you can't ignore history because history repeats
39:13
itself. With Anna Mae Wong's case, she was always
39:16
cast as the dragon lady, you know, that Asian
39:19
stereotype of this evil Asian woman. But there
39:24
was a movie back in, I think it was maybe 1939,
39:27
called The Good Earth. It might have been earlier
39:30
than that. And it was about peasants in China.
39:34
And Anna Mae Wong wanted that role, the main
39:37
role in it. Instead, it went to Luise Rainier,
39:41
a white woman who won the Academy Award for essentially
39:46
acting in Yellowface. So these women who could
39:52
have thrived, could have contributed greatly
39:55
to American culture, had to go outside of the
39:58
country in order to... express their art and
40:02
to express their visions. And that's why the
40:07
French have better culture than we do, because
40:09
they're willing to explore that kind of artistic
40:13
merit. Whereas here, we just believe in oppression,
40:19
oppressing the arts in order to create a certain
40:23
narrative that excludes minorities and women.
40:30
We're at that phase again, and again we're going
40:33
to refer back to the DEI, anti -DEI moves, where
40:37
these are just efforts to deny people their humanity,
40:44
their art, their contributions to what our culture
40:50
is and to the improvement of our lifestyles.
40:55
Anyway, this exhibit is really great. It's the
40:58
best thing I've seen at the Speed Museum. I'm
41:01
a member. I go there regularly. It's sponsored
41:05
by the Smithsonian Institution. It comes from
41:08
the National Portrait Gallery, which is my favorite
41:12
museum in the world. It's in Washington, D .C.
41:16
It's free, and it's just portraits of Americans,
41:21
or portraits of anyone in the world who was...
41:23
contributed to the improvement of culture. It's
41:27
got a lot of American history in it, but it's
41:31
got this great section on the presidents, just
41:35
a history of the presidents. And they're sponsoring
41:39
this exhibit at the Speed, which, okay, coming
41:45
back to today. the Trump administration is cutting
41:49
money to the arts. They're cutting money for
41:52
exhibits like this. And it's just this, I don't
41:59
know, did Donald Trump put some weird painting
42:03
of himself with Republican presidents in the
42:07
White House? He did something weird. He's always
42:09
doing something weird. He was the pope before.
42:12
His idea of art is, oh yeah, here I am as a pope
42:16
and here I am as an action figure. He sold those
42:19
stupid, I don't know what they're called, but
42:24
it's like these electronic portraits for ridiculous
42:31
amounts of money. essentially Donald Trump as
42:36
action figure and that's the kind of art he wants
42:39
in ... It's it's just Well, how can I describe it
42:45
it's like well looking at Soviet propaganda art
42:48
or Art by the Nazis where they were just you
42:52
know, here's the the master race kind of stuff
42:56
and you know All this other stuff is just considered
42:59
degenerate art. So These are the things that
43:03
we have to be aware of. There is an attack on
43:06
the arts. There are museums that do need our
43:10
help. As I said, I'm a member of the Speed Museum,
43:13
so I'm contributing to that regularly. I've also
43:19
like members, memberships in other museums, but
43:21
it's this kind of thing where someone has to
43:25
sponsor these events or sponsor these cultural
43:29
reminders. because otherwise they're going to
43:35
disappear and we're going to be stuck with bad
43:38
art and no history. So those are the kind of
43:42
things I'm kind of worried about in terms of
43:46
just the attack on the arts. What about writing?
43:50
We were talking a bit while we were preparing
43:53
about the Pulitzer Prizes. All right, yeah. Well,
43:55
that's another thing. As I just said earlier,
43:58
like the Pulitzer Prize for history, went to
44:02
this book on Harriet Tubman. But if you look
44:05
at the news Pulitzer Prizes this year, there's
44:09
something there that bothers me a lot as well.
44:12
And it's a reflection of what everyone criticized
44:16
as the media elite. What I would describe as
44:21
the Acela corridor media that goes from New York
44:23
to Washington DC. Why is it called Acela? Because
44:26
there's an Amtrak train. The fastest Amtrak train
44:29
is the Acela and it goes from Boston to Washington.
44:33
And you know, a train track, a trip that would
44:36
have taken four hours now takes maybe two and
44:39
a half to three hours. And I've been on the Acela.
44:41
It's a great train. But it's also where it's
44:45
the train that Joe Biden would ride from Delaware
44:47
down to DC. If you look at any of David Brooks's
44:52
columns, when he writes about visiting DC, he'll
44:56
talk about the Acela corridor. But anyway, what
45:00
happened this year in the Pulitzer Prizes was
45:02
that there were 15 news awards given. Of those
45:07
15, 13 were either publications in New York or
45:13
publications in Washington. And I think of the
45:19
two that didn't go to the New York or Washington
45:22
ones. One was given to the Houston newspaper
45:27
for its editorials, and the other was given to
45:31
Reuters, which is a London-based news organization.
45:34
So to me, this is saying that the judges of the
45:38
Pulitzer don't think there's any good journalism
45:41
going on in the rest of America. And I just walked
45:45
through, you know, I looked through the winners
45:47
and then I looked through the finalists. And
45:50
the finalists were like the Boston Globe was
45:53
nominated for three or was finalist for three
45:55
prizes. The San Francisco Chronicle, which I
45:58
worked for like for the past three years, it
46:01
was a finalist for two prizes. There was a paper,
46:05
papers in Raleigh, North Carolina were finalists.
46:08
Seattle and Los Angeles and San Diego were also
46:13
finalists for Pulitzer Prizes. And it bothers
46:17
me that the judges of the Pulitzers decided that
46:21
the only journalism worth reading was in the
46:24
New York or Washington corridor. That's just,
46:28
like, one of the things about the Pulitzer Prizes,
46:32
which I've... know from experiences that the
46:35
New York Times is always going to get two or
46:36
three. That's just like given because it's given
46:39
by Columbia University, and I'm sure the Times
46:41
is a sponsor. And the others, like the New Yorker
46:47
got a bunch of prizes, ProPublica, which is based
46:49
in New York, got a prize. Washington Post got
46:52
a couple of prizes. So, you know, it's this idea
46:56
that there's no good journalism outside of the
46:59
New York to Washington corridor, which in essence
47:02
is one of the criticisms that the right has of
47:06
journalism in general, that it's focused on just
47:11
a certain group within the Acela corridor who
47:14
are supposed to be pontificating about the troubles
47:18
in the rest of America when they have no idea
47:21
what's going on in the rest of America. Not being
47:26
modest here, but I know more about what's going
47:28
on in America than they do because I live in
47:31
what's considered or what conservatives say is
47:35
real America. Like Louisville is more, there
47:40
is no real America. Everyone should be treated
47:43
equally in that sense, but this idea that it's
47:47
only the New York to Washington corridor that
47:50
can explain things to you is... not only offensive,
47:54
it's just like ridiculous. Now, now my big criticism
47:58
this year is to the local paper because the Pulitzer
48:03
finalist at San Francisco was a series
48:07
on police chases and how they use the pit maneuver.
48:11
If you don't know what a pit maneuver is, let's
48:13
say you're driving along, someone's speeding,
48:16
the cop is chasing that person and what the cop
48:20
does is bump the side of the car in the rear
48:24
to put the car in a spin and then that'll stop
48:27
it and put some and they can make their arrest.
48:31
But you shouldn't do a pit maneuver over like
48:35
40 miles an hour because if you do horrible things
48:38
will happen. These pit maneuvers are being done
48:41
at like 90 and 100 miles an hour so the result
48:44
is that people get killed and not only the driver
48:48
gets killed but innocent bystanders get killed.
48:51
Anyway, in the San Francisco Chronicle series,
48:54
one of the stories, and it didn't involve a pit
48:56
maneuver, but it did involve police chases, was
49:00
specific to Louisville. There was an incident
49:02
in the West End a couple years ago where some
49:06
guy made a turn and he didn't signal, so the
49:12
cops started chasing him. Now, the person who
49:15
was driving... was obviously doing something
49:18
illegal because he immediately hit the accelerator
49:22
and just went tearing through the West End. And
49:27
the cops, instead of looking at the license plate
49:32
and seeing who owned the car, instead decided
49:34
to do a chase through a residential neighborhood
49:37
in the West End. And the result was the guy who
49:42
was escaping didn't escape. he ran into another
49:46
car, knocked a kid off a moped, and the kid died.
49:51
And this was in Louisville, and the San Francisco
49:54
Chronicle did the story that included this incident.
49:58
It was one of the, like, maybe five or six part
50:01
series, and one was specifically devoted to Louisville.
50:05
Now what bothers me about that is that we have
50:07
a paper here in Louisville called The Courier
50:09
Journal, and... They didn't see that? They didn't
50:13
know that this was happening. Maybe they reported
50:16
on it, but they didn't think it was serious enough
50:20
to delve into and look into the history of these
50:23
things or look into this history of police chases.
50:30
It really is bothersome that a paper in California
50:33
can find a story that specifically applies to
50:37
this city. the local paper doesn't cover it or
50:40
maybe they covered it, but they covered it in
50:43
the sense that oh this bad thing happened and
50:46
That's it and we don't have to look into it anymore
50:49
now I'm sure they'll say that they did and maybe
50:52
I should just look in their history to see what
50:54
they've done but it's it's not right that a newspaper
51:00
can come from out of town and discover a story
51:03
that you should have had or you should have dominated
51:06
and Just one more thing on this whole Pulitzer
51:10
thing. This is the second time I've realized
51:14
that the Courier -Journal lost out on a Pulitzer
51:16
on a story that was something they should have
51:21
had. And it was when I was working here in Louisville
51:26
and when Gannett took over. That was a huge story.
51:30
It's just the whole family dynamic, the Bingham
51:33
fight, and to me it was this sense of... Oh,
51:37
the children were fighting over a toy and dad
51:39
decided to take it away from them. So that story,
51:44
which was not reported in the Courier Journal,
51:46
no background on what happened, why it was going
51:49
on. The New York Times did this story on it and
51:51
they won the Pulitzer Prize for it. So, you know,
51:54
if you can't recognize the importance of a story
51:57
in your own community, I think that that's a
52:02
huge shortcoming. It gives me the sense that
52:06
There are certain things that they're not reporting
52:08
that can actually like prevent bad things from
52:12
happening. Like if you report about police chases
52:15
or you report about the way the police have acted
52:20
in the city, you know, does something like a
52:24
Breonna Taylor happen if you have a news organization
52:28
that's focusing on the importance or the... shortcomings
52:35
of what's going on in their area. But no, that's
52:38
just my rant against the Courier today. I'm sure
52:41
I'll have another rant in a couple of weeks.
52:43
But anyway. So Jesse, I just want to ask you,
52:46
is this about following the money? Is this about
52:49
the corporatization of newspaper journalism?
52:54
Why is it that the folks that you mentioned are
52:58
on the coast? for the Pulitzer Prize. I heard
53:01
all coastal states. Well, it wasn't even coastal.
53:03
It was all East Coast this year. Well, but you
53:06
had West Coast recommendations, too. Yeah, yeah.
53:09
I heard nothing sort of in flyover. Right. Nothing
53:12
in the middle of the country now, except for
53:15
Houston. Right. But the thing about Houston was
53:17
that it won the Pulitzer Prize a couple of years
53:19
ago for the same category. So I'm sure the judges
53:22
were sitting there going, oh, we gave it to them
53:24
a couple of years ago. Let's give it to them
53:26
again and show that we're actually looking at
53:28
stuff outside. of the New York -Washington corridor.
53:31
But I think there's probably part of it is the
53:35
domination of the corporations in the New York
53:39
area. I mean, Gannett is in the DC area. That's
53:44
based in DC. The San Francisco paper is owned
53:49
by a New York corporation and the Courier. Well,
53:53
I think the other papers in this state are not
53:56
owned locally, but owned by people in other states
54:00
who don't live here and who don't really know
54:03
anything about what's here. You read the stories
54:06
about journalists from the big newspapers coming
54:10
in to fly into some city and go to the diner
54:14
and talk to you. And talk to the various people
54:18
at the diner about what's really going on in
54:20
America. Well, you know, why don't you just have
54:23
people in America or newspapers in America telling
54:27
you what's happening and There's what was it?
54:30
There's this just this well, okay when I started
54:33
out in journalism I worked for a chain that was
54:35
owned by the New York Times this was like my
54:38
first newspaper is in Central, Florida and The
54:41
reason I went to this paper was because I saw
54:44
was owned by the New York Times and I thought
54:45
oh This is like their farm team. They're cultivating
54:50
people in their other smaller newspapers and
54:54
they're going to get them through the ranks and
54:57
get them eventually to the big paper. But that
55:00
wasn't the case. It was simply a money grab.
55:04
You get as much money as you can out of these
55:07
smaller papers, send it to New York to expand
55:10
the reach and the scope of the New York Times.
55:13
and to help with what's going on in these other
55:16
communities. So. And I just want to mention,
55:19
you know, there's a major attack right now on
55:22
public media, right? So, you know, when we have
55:27
good local media like the Kentucky Center for
55:30
Investigative Reporting, you know, it's nonprofit,
55:34
it's watchdog journalism, and it's a service
55:37
of Louisville Public Media. Well. Global Public
55:40
Media is a member of NPR, National Public Radio,
55:43
and only 5 % of the money does come from the
55:47
Corporation for Public Broadcasting, but that's
55:50
still 5%, right? Members make up more than half
55:55
of the... of the dollars but so you know we're
55:59
talking about the arts we're talking about literature
56:02
we're talking about media and you know the things
56:05
that we're valuing that lift up the human spirit
56:08
that that speak to the truth of our of our history
56:12
and the authenticity of the country are all under
56:16
attack right now. Right. And I should point out
56:19
that the Courier did win a Pulitzer Prize a few
56:22
years ago because of what Matt Bevin was doing
56:24
in terms of giving pardons to people who shouldn't
56:28
have gotten pardons. And, you know, I was really
56:32
happy to see that when it happened all those
56:34
years ago. And, well, it really wasn't maybe
56:37
it was in the past five years or so. But. The
56:41
result, you know, you would think that Gannett
56:43
would like, oh, okay, the Courier Journal just
56:45
won this Pulitzer Prize. Let's put more money
56:47
in there. Let's expand their staff because they
56:48
know what they're doing. Instead, they kept cutting
56:51
staff. And the person who was executive editor
56:54
left. He just took the buyout because Gannett
56:58
was offering buyouts. And it showed that it really
57:00
didn't care about the quality of the journalism
57:02
that its own news organization was producing.
57:06
Something that, you know, it should be... something
57:09
that they could take and they would put in their
57:11
promotional material, which they did, that, oh,
57:14
our Gannett papers have won X number of Pulitzer
57:16
Prizes. Instead, they just take the money, they
57:20
shrink staff, as I said last week, it's like
57:23
fewer than 50 journalists at the Courier Journal
57:27
now, when it was hundreds when I worked here
57:29
in the 80s. And, you know, it's just, there's
57:35
no... desire, it seems, for quality. I think
57:38
it's more a desire in the corporate structure
57:41
for how am I going to get my bonus this year?
57:45
What am I going to do to get my salary? This
57:48
is in the executive ranks. And if I bring in
57:51
the numbers, that means that I'll get a high
57:56
five figure bonus or a low six figure bonus plus
57:59
my stock options. Instead of, you know, putting
58:02
that money back into the journalism and helping
58:04
people understand what's going on in the country
58:07
and you know if people understood what was going
58:10
on maybe we have a different political situation
58:14
than we do now it just depends but I'm maybe
58:17
giving too much credit to news organizations
58:19
because the people who have owned newspapers
58:24
have been rich people and Rich people have their
58:28
own interests and if the interests of the community
58:31
happen to coincide with that, then they're all
58:34
for it. But if it goes against their interests,
58:37
then they're going to do things to suppress it.
58:40
The old adage or the old reality was that if
58:44
a newspaper did something about a business doing
58:47
something that hurt people, the business owner
58:50
would contact the newspaper and the reporter
58:53
would be told to either lay off. Or if the paper
58:56
were a good paper, the reporter would be told,
58:59
keep getting them. So I just want to, you know,
59:03
we are in a day and age of feeling pretty overwhelmed
59:07
by a lot of this information. And I just want
59:09
to come back to what we can do. You know, we're
59:12
lifting up the arts. We're lifting up ways for
59:16
us to show up and participate and support arts.
59:20
Many of us are writing to our legislators about
59:25
public media. And I did get a letter back from
59:28
my congressman, Morgan McGarvey, that he is a
59:32
champion of public media. So there are many things
59:37
for us to do. Go show up, come to our concerts,
59:40
go to the Speed Museum and see this amazing exhibit.
59:43
you know, be a member of Louisville Public Media
59:47
and KET and other really good stations in the
59:52
state. We're members, so yeah, it improves the
1:00:00
quality of life here. You know, these places
1:00:03
do offer like... days where you can go in free
1:00:07
and to see things I think the Speed Museum is
1:00:10
free on Sundays and you know, it's it's great
1:00:12
to just go to the museum sometime take your kids
1:00:15
and Learn something learn something about the
1:00:18
arts the the museums in Washington are free if
1:00:22
you go if you're going on vacation and you want
1:00:24
to like have a cultural vacation go to DC and
1:00:27
just Take advantage of all the free museums there,
1:00:30
you know other museums are I go to New York museums,
1:00:34
but they're very expensive. But Washington museums,
1:00:38
I think, are the best to go to. Just need to
1:00:41
pay for lodging. Yeah. That's kind of high. Yeah.
1:00:44
So you take the subway in. Or go into, like,
1:00:49
Virginia or Maryland and just commute there.
1:00:51
But it's worth doing. So I want to segue to making
1:00:56
some corrections from our last podcast. erroneously
1:01:02
called Tim Kaine, Tim McCain. I apologize, Senator.
1:01:07
Okay, remember that Tim Kaine was the person
1:01:09
who ran for Vice President with Hillary Clinton.
1:01:12
Yeah, good guy. Yeah, and not to be confused
1:01:16
with John McCain, who ran it, where it gets to
1:01:19
Barack Obama. Right. Anything from you, Jesse?
1:01:23
I think I've... I've said everything I can say
1:01:27
for this week and we're we have an hour long
1:01:30
episode this week Wow, so Let's keep this up.
1:01:34
Let's see. Our next podcast will be in two weeks
1:01:38
so Hopefully people will keep listening to us
1:01:43
and take advantage of the museums and the arts
1:01:46
and we talked about today because this is this
1:01:49
is stuff that It's good for your kids, it's good
1:01:52
for you, and it just is something that... It's
1:01:54
good for the spirit. Yeah, yeah. So let's do
1:01:57
that. See ya. So long. Our closing music is by
1:02:04
John Chamberlain.