Latest / Skin Anarchy / Marie-Pierre Stark-Flora , Founder of HERB + FLORA

Transcript

Marie-Pierre Stark-Flora , Founder of HERB + FLORA · Skin Anarchy

• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ephra, and today I have yet another amazing guest.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited because her line is very, very unique, and I'm so thrilled that she had the time for this.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Marie Pierre Stark Flora, who is the founder of Herb and Flora Skincare.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Marie Pierre.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so happy to be on and uh to finally meet you all.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um looking forward to this.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know I really want to um dive right in and talk to you about like your your whole background and really what inspired you to create Urban Flora because it's such a unique uh line.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that the background is very, very cool.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you to dive right in and tell us all about yourself to begin.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I I really feel like everything I've done before in my life has prepared me for this.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and um it was just a privilege to sort of be uh be able to create something that could host all my inferences and all my experiences and all my um my experiences and my life really.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um I have spent over 25 years in the luxury beauty uh world in the US and in Europe.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I've been very lucky to work on brands that um are my all-time favorites.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'll just give a few examples.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many, but I worked on Kiel's for many, many years and created uh some of uh still my favorite products that I'm still using today.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I worked uh on Helena Ribenstein, I worked for um Ralph Lauren uh fragrance, I worked for motor, uh Jolique, which was very ahead of its time, uh, a biodynamic natural skincare showing that that natural can have uh benefits and efficacy uh straight from Australia.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I worked on uh a brand that I think is beautiful uh inside and out philosophy because it has a soul and uh I love its founder.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also quite close to uh to Christina Carlino, who has become a mentor um and an inspiration for me.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: She has always been an inspiration.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've been following the brand since it was launched in 1996, so that gives you an idea.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um fortunate enough to uh had both be the head of philosophy for a few years, uh, most recently.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what I did for um Herb and Flora is bring together my love of beauty, my experience of beauty, luxury, lifestyle, but also my love for sports and for science.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sports because uh myself and my co-founder, we are triathlete.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, triathlete, uh, I've become a triathlete recently, late in life.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's a sport that you can start later.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I became really passionate about endurance and about the uh meditation aspect of doing something for a very long time and uh concentrating on your breathing and the effort that you put putting in.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also I've always had a passion in beauty for the scientific side of things.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've my favorite people have always been the chemists, the dermatologists, the scientists who come up with the latest ingredients, the latest uh research, uh, the latest uh texture.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I've been uh really in love with uh all throughout my career.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And here I've been uh very um fortunate to be able to bring all of that together into a unique brand, which is based on beauty, on science and sport.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I really love the triathlete aspect of this, and um I want to congratulate you for going on that journey because I know that it's very much endurance-based, and I, you know, that's that's very, very impressive.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you're, I mean, you have so much experience.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So wow.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, um, you know, so I I wanted I want to dive into the um athletic portion of this because I know that exercise plays such a huge role in not only our overall health, but obviously um, you know, with that comes skin health.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um what were some of the big, you know, things that you really considered um that you wanted to bring to the forefront with urban flora when it comes to like skin fitness?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we um, and I say we, it's my co-founder and I, we are part of two teams, one in the US and one in France.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was quite obvious because uh triacon is a sport where you find men and women, all ages, all shapes.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh the oldest was 74, the youngest was 18.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and but we could tell that everybody looked younger than their age.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone, yeah, on both sides of the Atlantic.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a question there, okay, so why?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like how does it work?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as we were looking for answers, we found a research of a scientist, um, eminent scientist in Canada called Dr.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tarno Polski, who had been just demonstrating and studying uh the uh effect of exercise on skin and demonstrating that when you exercise, it has an anti-aging effect on skin for three reasons.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's doing three things to your cells.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: One, it's um accelerating autophagy.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Autophagy is the natural recycling mechanism by which a cell takes um uh defect, uh takes uh waste, and turns that into fresh energy.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And when you have fresh energy, you have a youthful um behavior for a cell.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Then uh it also exercises also improving the health uh of the mitochondria, which is where autophagy is taking place.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it's also uh lowering the oxidative stress at the level of each one of your cells.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as a result, your skin looks younger.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the way they did the testing, I mean, I won't go into details, but it was quite amazing because they took sedentary people, older people, uh, they took um extracts of their buttocks, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh skin that had never been exposed to the sun, and they compared the skin uh of those people before uh they started doing sports again, and after they had done two months of uh 45 minutes of sport three times a week, and they they the skin was behaving suddenly.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Those people were 50 plus, they were behaving the skin, suddenly started resembling the skin of a 30-year-old after just two months of exercising.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fascinating, and we thought, okay, we we met Mark, we we loved him.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's also an athlete, which is amazing.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh part of the national team of Canada in two different sports.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we we spoke the same language, and he um he helped us work on uh finding ingredients and worked on formulas that would actually mimic the effect of exercise on skin.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I really love that.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that um uh you've talked about you know autophagy, as you've said it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know that it's a lysosomal mediated process and it's very, very deep and like, you know, embedded in molecular and cellular um biology, this concept.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's something that, you know, I've never seen it really being um brought to the forefront in terms of, you know, anything outside of like just very deep molecular science research, you know what I mean?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's very interesting, actually.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I you know, and I want to talk about the just the exercise component because I think that's something that people, you know, oftentimes doctors will say, you know, if you're sick or if there's something going on with you with obesity or like, you know, just lack of movement, exercise is kind of a cure-all, you know, it really helps you with things like depression, it helps with you know overall function of the body.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that um you guys have really, you know, brought this from a very scientific standpoint forward for people to understand.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one thing I want to ask you is um, how did you apply all of this in a topical uh formulation?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, yeah, yeah, no, because it's not obvious.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I hear you.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, first of all, we didn't do just topical formulations, we also took a holistic approach to beauty, and we are approaching it from the outside in with topical uh formulas, two of them, but also from the inside out with ingestibles, and that's really interesting.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, we have something that's very unique it's a an anti-hyging pillowcase made uh with copper ions.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'll explain in a minute.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: But for the topicals, what we did was we created a complex called the exercise mimic youth complex, and we put in that complex ingredients that are actually bioengineered from natural ingredients because we didn't want to deplete nature, but they have been demonstrated to have an effect on autophagy, an effect on mitochondrial health, uh, and they have been also demonstrated to be very strong antioxidants.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, they are uh also helping to lower uh oxidative stress at uh level of the skin.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And those ingredients are one is an extract from um asparagus.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other two are uh algae, the microalgae and a microalgae.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we have also mini H, which is mini hyaluronic acid, which is a hyaluronic acid that actually is um uh has a very small size and therefore penetrates better in the skin, uh, to give the skin a very, very deep uh hydration and plumping effect.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we have created that complex, and then for each one of the products, we have two products one is a serum, an over uh overall uh facial serum, and the other one is an eye um uh cream.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have added specific ingredients to each uh part of the face.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, for instance, for the eye cream, we have eyeless, which is specifically working on it's a peptide that's specifically working on uh under eye bags and dark circles.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um just an example.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then we also put on in the two products because we are from the Mediterranean uh part of the world, uh from an island called the Corsica.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted ingredients from our region.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we also have botanicals from the Mediterranean, which are soothing.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're actually very good for your skin after you expose it to the sun.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we also um added some natural extracts of mango butter, of aloe vera.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so it's really a cocktail of beautiful ingredients that come from nature, most of them.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I've bioengineered and have been clinically tested to show incredible um results on skin.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we also did uh consumer tests with great results for both um products uh for the for the serum after a very short period of time.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So after actually just eight days, we already have 100% of uh consumers seeing an effect on plumping, an effect on firmness, um, uh over 80% are seeing an effect on wrinkles.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we have fast-acting products that will reproduce the effect of sport.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: We don't recommend that people do not exercise because obviously you have to take care of the entire body, you have to take care of your mental health, but we think our products are the best way to emphasize the effect of sport on your skin.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think this is a this is a very shining example of how, you know, I as a scientist, I firmly believe that, you know, everything in nature that naturally is happening is our greatest source of learning.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you've done such a remarkable job of bringing that idea forward with your line because you know, our body through exercise is doing so many amazing things that are helping it heal, that are helping it, you know, just helping with longevity longevity, sorry, and you know, um especially stuff like oxidative stress and for you to use all of that science and apply it in a way that um you know we can now kind of complement what we're already doing with products, that's that's phenomenal.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I really commend you on that.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a beautiful thing, and I I love that you're doing that with the skincare line.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's really what we wanted to do.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the last thing we wanted to do is to invite people to sleep more.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, what did we what did we do for that?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and and feel like actually they can even multitask as they're sleeping and uh and look younger, uh the the the the longer they sleep, the younger they look.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um basically what happens is we have this amazing pillowcase with copper ions in every thread of the fabric, you have copper fibers.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh as you sleep, uh, with the rubbing of the skin against the fabric, uh you liberate copper ions in the moisture space between skin and fabric, and those copper ions will accelerate the production of new cells at the level of your epidermis.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we have demonstrated in five clinicals around the world that that has an effect on wrinkles, firmness, a brightness of the skin, radiance after uh about four weeks, between two and four weeks, you see all the different effects.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what is better than that?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: All you need to do is sleep, and it's an amazing product for men as well because the line is gender neutral, uh, it's also clean.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: We have our products are clean, it's also vegan, but we know that a lot of men don't like to apply cream on their skin, but we know they all like to sleep, and so here all they have to do is sleep.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, this pillowcase is a night treatment in the form of a pillowcase, um, which also is really cool, I think, and a different approach to recovery.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Recovery as an athlete, recovery as a just a person who lives a busy life, um, and um at the same time multitasking and seeing an effect on skin.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's very important to acknowledge that copper is one of the you know um building blocks for collagen production.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we use it, our body uses it in collagen production.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting to me because I know that there's been a lot of hype and a lot of uh conversation around the use of copper, um, especially with like, for example, serum.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: So this is very unique that you've infused it into um, you know, a fabric and it's something that is being, you know, applied to your skin over time, you know, because we're sleeping for long hours, right?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're exposing our skin to this for uh many, many hours, which is very interesting.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm always intrigued by, you know, I think for me, it's very intriguing how all of these applications of modern research in the skincare industry are really kind of advancing um, you know, just our whole understanding of the human body.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to get some, you know, just just some feedback from you about, you know, what's what's your vision with urban flora next?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know that your products are remarkable right now, but I'm sure that you have long-term visions um of where you want to go.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so um we, yes, we have, I mean, if you saw our pipeline, I mean, I don't know exactly how many products will launch when, but for sure we have we have a very wide vision because we think that uh this technology is amazing and needs to be brought to different parts of the body, to be honest and face.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to expand, we want to um uh go into uh again products and then maybe uh also products that are a little bit more specialized for people who do sports.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um we also have um uh I mean, I mean you can't see me right now, but I have very, very long hair.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when you have a busy life and you have a physical activity, it's not easy to take care of you know your hair and and make sure that they have uh this amazing uh healthy look.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, our ingestibles um are actually ingestibles that have an effect on skin, hair, and nails.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the pillowcase, when you sleep on it, uh it helps you avoid bedhead.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: But we know we can go beyond that to help uh men and women keep their hair um uh in optimal shape, uh, no matter what their activities are.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh that's another uh you know category we're interested in.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then when it comes to geography, obviously we want to bring our products to the widest number of people.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because nowadays with social media, uh you could you can tell that, and and and actually people from very far away uh get a glimpse of your products and and want them.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so we want to, we hopefully be able to bring our products to them as fast as we can uh so that everybody can enjoy the the herb and floral line.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, I I really enjoy, I I like that.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like that you said that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I want to just mention that I feel like with the you know, anything that stems from like Europe, it's always kind of ahead of the time with science.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and I've always noticed that, you know, across many different industries, that for some reason, you know, American-based lines, I no, no, you know, bad words towards American-based lines.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, in terms of like innovation and um, you know, using science and really applying it in different ways, I've noticed that a lot of European-based brands are very much comfortable in that aspect, you know, rather than being a little shy of it, which I, you know, I really like that.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious why that is.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you have any insight into that?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, I've interviewed a few people that are, you know, from really great backgrounds and they're very, very comfortable in using science and applying it.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, uh, it could be that culturally uh beauty has been a thing in Europe for a very, very long time.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's funny how the countries are small, but the markets are huge.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm thinking, I mean, the example of France, France is a relatively small country in terms of footprint, but I think I don't know exactly now, but I think it's probably the third or fourth largest beauty market in the world.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Not in size, not like the country is not the fourth largest in size, but it's it's a very big, and there is a tradition of um you know using a lot of products and being very interested and intrigued by science uh uh in Europe.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that I think I agree.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: We you also have a lot of the very large organizations in the world of beauty with a lot of uh means in terms of research and development, uh, which actually are based out of Europe.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's probably a reason why also you have a lot of um uh a lot of means in Europe that are put behind research and development in beauty.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, ingredients.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are so many uh raw material suppliers that are actually uh a lot of a lot a lot of French, actually.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so uh they are very uh forward, they actually create the trend and come up with uh amazing innovation uh that then are being sort of like uh the inspiration for new brands uh around the world.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that is a fact as well.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: You have a lot of rematerial companies that are actually based out of Europe.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, just to add to it, I know like from the medical standpoint, there's so many medical innovations and devices that have been like, you know, created from initial research that stemmed from European countries.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I was interviewing um one of the leading dermatologists in New York City, Dr.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Markowitz, and she was explaining that, you know, her um approach to dermatology and her approach to non-invasive, you know, uh like methods in dermatology really come from this inspiration she had with technology and science that began in Europe.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, you know, this is that's very fascinating because it's like, you know, you you take this from the cultural standpoint for me, I think that's very important to acknowledge, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean we can all really learn from that.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, um, especially through this podcast, for me, it's very important to put the message out there that, you know, skincare is not just skincare, it's a lot of there's a lot of brilliance behind the ideas.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you were talking about oxidative stress, and you know, uh just the the molecular mechanisms which we were discussing, these are very, very, you know, um complex and very advanced ideas to think about.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, my next question really is for you, um, in terms of when you were creating how you wanted to formulate, not finding a lab and you know, really uh staying true to the science, staying true to the vision, what were some of the challenges that you faced?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Were there any challenges or was it pretty smooth-sailing?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting, but I would say that it came pretty naturally.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, uh there were challenges afterwards with the COVID-19 crisis and the state of the of the market.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: But in terms of creation and scientific development, um, it went pretty easily.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I really believe that winning projects and concepts usually develop naturally, and there's not that many issues.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: We also eye to eye, we um in terms of developing the formulas, I actually was fortunate enough to be able to work with my all-time favorite chemist.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we were partners when I uh was working at L'Oreal, we created together uh one of the most uh beloved uh moisturizer at Kiel's a long time ago, which is UFM Cream.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was our baby, and he happened to be working independently when I started uh working on these formulations, and I was able to work with him.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so amazing actually to be able to do that and to be able to partner with uh really someone I trust and someone I have a wonderful history with.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'll give you his name, Mark Cornell.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's a very, very talented uh chemist.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so things really happened uh and developed, and then working with Mark Tanopolsky was unbelievable.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Tanopolski is uh is uh an incredible thinker and an incredible uh researcher, and working with him, especially on the ingestibles, but also on the overall concept and the topicals was was fantastic.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um not too many challenges there.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the challenge was more in the packaging area.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the reason being that we wanted to be very respectful of the environment.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the dream was to use ocean plastic.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is that if you are a startup, uh a niche brand, uh you cannot afford the um moqs that are required by um the packaging uh organizations that have ocean plastic.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And ocean plastic is also very hard to find.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's very difficult to find.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh recycled plastic is not something that's easy to find for uh beauty packaging.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, so that was that was a little disappointing.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted, we tried.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it will come, it will come later.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in the meantime, what we decided to do was to make our packaging refillable.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So our topical products are refillable.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that uh is amazing, and we're very happy that we were able to at least do that so that um we uh give an opportunity to our customers to do the right thing, what we call do the right thing, which is refill your packaging.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, keep the outer package and just buy the refill.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but this is uh I would say the packaging was more of a challenge.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's very interesting to hear that.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think packaging, especially when it comes to like sustainability and stuff, you know, there's so much, there's just so much that goes into it that I really don't understand.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie to you.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know very much about that um area of the beauty industry, but I can imagine that you know it's not easy to deal with.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's interesting.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm glad that the science part wasn't the hard part.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's very refreshing to hear.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I wanna, I wanna actually, you know, just kind of finish up the interview.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love that you've had, you know, just so much experience in this industry and you've you've done such great work.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Keels is by far one of my favorite lines.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was one of the first skincare products, you know, was by Keels that I tried.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I want you to give some advice to um the entrepreneurs out there that want to start their own skincare brand or that that they want to go into beauty in some way.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, any kind of advice you have in terms of career or just you know, anything you can think of.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I have I have two two two advices, two pieces of advice.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh one thing, it's a classic, but you know, uh it's important to to say it again.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do not take failure as a failure.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that in a career you will have ups and downs, but what I've I've learned uh over the years is that the downs are where you actually learn the most.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and you realize that uh you end up creating things and doing things you would never have done if you had always stayed on the top, you know, and so it's it's at the top.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's very interesting because when it happens, um it's complicated.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, I think it might have happened to quite a lot of people over the past 18 months because um you know the market was tough, and and I think some uh companies had to uh reduce their um team sizes, and and you know, entrepreneurs had issues as well to stay afloat.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that at the end of the day, even if it takes a little bit of time to realize it, um, everything happens for a reason.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end, uh things are uh better.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be number one.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, I think allow yourself to dream.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Numbers are important, test results are important, um, everything rational is important, but if you don't dream, you will not have a success.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't dream, nobody else will.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you don't dream, your customer won't dream.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, and follow your gut, follow your gut feel.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a founder, you're an entrepreneur, you you know, you are the one who knows uh what is for the brand, uh, you know what you want to say, you know how you want to help and share.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and don't let anybody else tell you otherwise.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone listening, I hope you paid close attention to that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's really, really wonderful advice, Marie Pierre.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this has been such a lovely conversation.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I am a huge fan of what you're doing.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is, you know, something we need to see more of, is really a forward approach, a scientifically forward approach to um all beauty and especially skin health.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think all the men listening, don't be scared of skincare.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think Urban Flora is a great place to start if you're a man and you want to dive into the skincare.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is really truly um obviously very much based in science, and I can't um be more of an advocate for something like that.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love it and I love that you know you've you're on this journey and you've done it so well.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for your time and and explaining everything to us.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was wonderful.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 27:38
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