Latest / The People Run Podcast / #70 Going All In Hyrox Elite 15 | Fran Kilinski

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#70 Going All In Hyrox Elite 15 | Fran Kilinski · The People Run Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: What's up, friend?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm gonna go right off your last post that I saw.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: The elusive 15 flag says that's where you're going after right now.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: How bad do you want the elite 15 flag going into the new season in high rocks?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, uh here's the thing.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I guess I should use this podcast as a chance to announce it, but I really I I might have been a little vague in that post.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of just wanted a general flag, like a podium, right?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like to get the award uh flags for the the top three finishers in the age group and overall.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So like a top three finish in any race would have been great.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I did decide relatively recently, with I'm talking like within the past week, like while I was making that post as well, like Elite 15 is something I should try to go for.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, how bad do I want it?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: The answer is a lot.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen guys who I don't think I mean, I I people the thing about hierarchy is that people come from all different backgrounds.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you got guys who've been swimming for 20 years, playing other types of sports for 20 years, whatever it is, running for 20 years.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: But like I have a very diverse background, and I've seen guys like myself who were kind of jacks of all trades, who just decided, like, yo, I'm gonna invest a lot more time in this.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they got close to, if not to that Elite 15 level.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think I'm very far off.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm using my previous race times and finishes, which are like, you know, as the pool gets bigger, I think like if you're racing in a race with 750 other participants and you're within the top 100, it's not unreasonable to think you can make a significant jump.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where my head's at.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, let's try to invest more time in it this season, sign up for a couple more races.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: It might break the bank a little bit, but like I'm gonna spend that money to see where we can go because why would I not try, right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that that's the that's the point of this whole thing.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's growing, it's getting bigger.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna start seeing more athletes.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're already seeing athletes who are getting like legitimate sponsorships and making good money with that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, hey, I've always wanted to be a professional athlete.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: We can we can talk a little bit more about that too, but I've always wanted to have some sort of professional athlete income stream, and this feels like the closest I'll get to it if I if I if and when I do.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say when so I can sound confident about it.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with you, man.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: I keep seeing new shoes, new clothes every other week.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it used to just be Puma, and now everyone's jumping in the ring right now, like because this thing obviously is growing.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: So right now it's now it's hot.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think well, you said I'm gonna stay with confidence.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go with I know you know you're gonna be able to get it at some point, but uh what's stopping you right now?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: What's missing in your opinion to get that elusive Elite 15?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: What I feel like I was missing previously, because we're about to start a new season in a couple days, was was I was working two jobs.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we talked about this beforehand.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am a coach myself.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a couple years ago, I left my big box gym to start my own personal training business.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And just for a multitude of reasons.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: One because I am a workaholic, I like to keep myself busy.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I actually got a I have I also haven't really announced this on social media yet, just because I didn't really feel like I needed to, but happy to do it here.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I got a second job in tech sales and it was pretty easy work.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was remote.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to get some extra income, um, make some decent money off commissions, but I found that when I took that second job, as I was also getting into high rocks, this is early 2025.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I found that I'm not a person who can evenly distribute like my go-hardness to different things.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm gonna have moments in my day or in my week where I'm like, all right, this is gonna get my full focus because it's gotta be good.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: But this thing's also gotta be good.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was being pulled all different ways from the second job that I took in early 2025.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: That I mean, I was able to pull it off, but I would have days where I wasn't sleeping well, was not getting my second training session of a two-a-day in.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I hired a coach like around this time last year.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I hired Dylan Scott to coach me.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And he and he still works with me.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm glad I caught caught the boat before he closed off his one-on-one coaching to the rest of the world.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I realized I was like, man, I I'm doing myself a disservice by paying Dylan to coach me and not being able to do all of his workouts.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, he's given me some hard stuff to do.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not easy.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like if I just started to commit more of my time to the stuff he's writing for me because he clearly knows what he's doing, I should I should invest more time.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So about a month ago, I stepped away from that tech sales role.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm back into just one-on-one coaching.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And over the past 30 days, I don't know how much of a jump in fitness I've made, but I've had way more time to hit my workouts.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have where I whereas it was maybe, maybe on a good day, an hour and a half to train, now I have upwards of two to two and a half up if I want to use all that time.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So having all that extra time, one is gonna be the biggest piece, I think, moving forward.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see how it pays off this weekend in DC.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And two is just more races.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I can get, I know the lines are crazy for these tickets these days, but if I can get more races on my calendar and just get more reps in and show that the work is working, I think those are gonna be the things that ultimately get me closer to that podium and to some really competitive times.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Congrats on that, man.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's big uh to have the extra time and just lock in and and one thing.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it sucks to give up a job, but like you gotta go all in sometimes on something.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: So congrats on that, man.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like I was, you know, it's not necessarily like I was really struggling for income.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like my coaching business is fine.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's been fun since I started it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not at a loss for clients or anything, but but um now I can just go back to focusing on that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure as I get better with high rocks, people might decide to hire me for that, for coaching for that too.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've already had a few people reach out, like, hey, you're getting good at this.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Can I try it?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm I'm like, of course, let's do it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: How's the the sleep and all that coming along now that you have a little bit, you're not juggling three things at once?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot better.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was the first thing Dylan told me when I when I told him that I was leaving my job.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, that's great.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't say anything about the workouts.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, you're just gonna notice recovery is gonna be way better.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I'm not gonna say how or what, but like, just way easier to get to bed.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's one less thing to think about.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not looking at my calendar like I used to, even just a couple months ago, like, oh, I got this meeting tomorrow.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's right in the time that I wanted to train.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So sleep recovery has all been a lot better.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel as beat up from the hard workouts as I did.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I think I think that's been the biggest change for me for sure.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: If we gave your training plan right now to an elite 15 or even Dylan himself right now, we put it on a board.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: We wrote your you're kind of your trading, your Monday through Friday, Saturday.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: What would they circle, hey, this needs work?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: To be Elite 15.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so to kind of give you a peek into the the craziness that is my schedule.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's it's a it's a couple of it's a couple of easy runs per week, which we were talking about.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like those have been I've been flying through those.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's anything I need to really necessarily work on.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um my my run club takes care of my speed work on Wednesdays.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Dylan writes it for me on Tuesdays, but I just swap my Tuesday and Wednesday, so I usually get the work done.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um Dylan's been writing more for me than my run club draws up for the day.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if my run club is mile repeats, I'll probably do some mile repeats and then I'll do what Dylan wrote for me.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's usually my Wednesday morning.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this morning I did about half a workout because I was I was uh I'm kind of tapering for this weekend.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I would say the biggest things that if we were to highlight need work would be my urged, so the rower and the skier, which I feel pretty confident about, but um Dylan prescribes anywhere from like 8 to 10k on each of those machines a week, which I'm gonna be honest, you know, it it's it's a drudgery to get through that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is like, you know, I don't even feel like putting an audiobook or a or a TV show on actually helps me get through it that well.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've done them.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I've skipped them all.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've definitely done them.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've done the 10KC, I've done the 10K row.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I did a half marathon on the row once.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but man, yeah, exactly.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I was I I don't have my old gym membership that I used to anymore because uh most of the gyms I train at let me work at work out in them for free because I'll usually train my clients there.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like a bonus of working there.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're shared spaces where a lot of other personal trainers work.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I used to work out at the gym, um, the commercial gym, I would be on that row for a good 45 minutes while my friends from Run Club or whatever, maybe lifting, you know, they start their warm-up, they come back, they're they're they're starting their cooldown, and I'm still rowing.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Bram, you're still going?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um my herb work is definitely something that I will admit I don't dedicate as much time to as I maybe could.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: But this weekend, like I said, I'm gonna be saying this a lot on this episode, but this weekend will determine whether or not I really need to hone in on them more or if it's just a little bit more.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then my Saturday sessions, which uh Dylan makes a little bit tougher for me, those are like my high rocks days.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Every Saturday is a hard training session.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so those days probably could use some work, not because I don't get them done, but just because I think maybe on a given day, on a given Saturday, that workout will kind of crush me, right?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that there's like I still got to turn around and do a workout Sunday.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I get in my own head and think, like, oh, like I want to save myself for tomorrow's long, easy run.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So like maybe I won't push it 10 out of 10 today, but I'll push it nine out of 10.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's another thing where is leaving a little bit of intensity on the table hurting me?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, Dylan is a very hard driving athlete himself.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if he were wanting me to be my best athlete, he would say, you could probably push it 100%.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who cares if you're sore on Sunday?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just go for it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm usually sore on Sundays, but maybe there's another, maybe there's another level I could take it to there.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I think most of those workouts are within a certain time frame, somewhere between 60 and 70 minutes.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's because Dylan anticipates that's where my high rock's time will somewhere fall.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think I think I could probably give a little bit more there, but again, we'll see what happens in DC.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta ask for a little more detail there.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: So what is it about the road?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a foreign thing, endurance thing, or like just going hard on it, not holding back?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, the way that they're written each week is very different, right?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: There might be a week where it's just endurance, it's just straight endurance.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like it could be all zone two.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh zone two, maybe zone three with a little bit of heart rate drift, but it's just the repetitiveness of it.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there is like a kind of I guess, I guess there's value in building that mental muscle of just like sitting on the machine, whether it's the row or the skier and doing it for 40 to 45 minutes, whatever it is.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: But my logical brain as a coach myself always goes, I'm only gonna be on this thing for a thousand meters in the race.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I why am I on it for 40 minutes?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So part of it, yeah, part of it is endurance.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I'd say every third week, Dylan does write some hard stuff for me on there where it's like, all right, you're gonna do, you know, 12 by 250, right?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like 250 meter sprint, rest for 30, 250 meter sprint, rest for 30, 250, and that those are the workouts where I'll open my app and be like, do I want to do this today?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't know.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like a threshold effort on the rower is a lot different than a threshold on the treadmill.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so it it can it depends on the week, honestly, is how I answer that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta ask, since we just talked about zone two a little bit there.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think we get a little too zone two crazy in the fitness endurance space right now?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: I we we talked also about um before we got on about other podcasts and stuff, and um I I poke around with other running podcasts.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um do you know Rory Linkletter show?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yep.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he and I I think he had um this guy named I think his name's Alfie Manthorpe on his show.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it was his show, but uh Alfie Alfie um had a quote, I guess, that came on my explore page after I had um ran through the running podcast circuit a little bit, no pun intended.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And like I was like, this encapsulates what I think about zone two training.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll caveat it by saying, like, I don't think it's not valuable.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think like it depends on your skill level.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's a certain ceiling that I think most beginner runners, talk about beginner runner, but like less than a year, or maybe like a less than two years of training, um, will probably hit with zone two, where like if they're doing we'll call it three to four hours of zone two a week, they're probably gonna get really fit from that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you pass that threshold, we'll call it the two-year mark and maybe above, depending on how serious you'll want to be as a runner, where it's not that zone two is not gonna be beneficial, but it reaches a point where it's not raising your ceiling anymore, it's just maintenance.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think it also depends on how you process this information.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, for example, I'm very conscious on my page, on my social media page, as like a fitness personality that I don't want to be like too absolute about anything because I know how people consume information these days.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of people will see a one or two clips on Instagram and that's their information diet.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think part of this craze that we're seeing with zone two is that the ones that are reaching the very top of the algorithm for anybody who's even remotely interested in running is gonna see that first and think like this is the way.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I kind of think we are.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um even for those beginner runners, like I do think it's valuable to occasionally throw in some 160 plus BPM work every now and again to like, all right, feel what a hard effort feels like, right?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that I would take it a step further for those people who run a little more seriously and like want to have competitive marathon times.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, the zone two work matters, but I would even say that at a certain skill threshold, a skill level, your threshold work, like zone four, zone five stuff, matters a lot more for your top end um if you want to get faster.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you just want to maintain your fitness, keep doing the zone two, but like it's not going to, there's gonna be a certain point where it doesn't build any more fitness for you.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's the big distinction with zone two that I think we should be very, very careful about.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: How's your training and like on a week to week on the running side of, you know, obviously you do higher square, I know you run, which we'll get into here trolling in a bit, but like you also run really freaking fast.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: So uh for those of us that are a friend, it's fast.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: So point being, um, like what is your I don't want to go into splits, but like how much of zone three, zone four?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Let's make it simpler.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: How fast are you going fast?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: How many days are you going fast?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: How many did you go in zone two-ish for maintenance?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: How often are you pushing it?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say I'm I'm pretty much I'm not perfect on the whole 80-20 principle.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: They say 80% zone two, 20% hard.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm probably more like 70-30, um, 70% in like that zone two range.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um honestly, like I I try, uh, we were talking about this before.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I try to get my heart rate as low as possible while still maintaining a decent speed.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, um, if I can do like a zone one run, like I'll I'll try to do that.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's usually like my Sunday where I'll go like a really slow pace and I'll set I'll set a uh a limit for my heart rate.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think some some more advanced runners do this.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, all right, I'm not gonna let my heart rate get above this level.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that's usually like my long Sunday run.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go through the week.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Mondays, usually like a long, easy-ish effort.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Tuesdays uh are usually either an off day or a bike and a lift day.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Wednesdays are my speed sessions, I talked about, so that's usually anywhere from six to eight miles, and about five of those miles are pretty intense.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking like, you know, 12 by 400, 16 by 400, things like that.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm pretty good for like a day or so after that with intense efforts.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So Thursday is like an easy six to eight miles, depending on how my legs feel after Wednesday.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Friday, Friday, I'll sprinkle in some thresholds, but I would call that like my second quote unquote threshold effort of the week.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um if we're if we're going by percentages, that'll probably get me to 20% of my of my hard work for the day.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then that last 10% um it comes on Saturday when I'm doing my hard high ROX workout.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um that isn't really exclusively running, though.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's usually mixed into like a larger circuit where I'm doing a lift and then I'll run you know 400 meters on the tread or something like that.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So uh unfortunately as a high rocks athlete, I'm one of those guys in the gym who's kind of obnoxious and will run from a weight rack to a treadmill just to get my workout in.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, that's where my other that's where my other stuff comes from.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's about 70, 30, easy hard, we'll call it.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: But essentially you got it sounds like three sessions where the heart rate is like up there.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I try to, you know, not look too hard into the heart rate when it comes to the hard stuff.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I try to just go off of how hard it actually feels.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I find that that actually when I look at the data retroactively, actually keeps my heart rate more in tune.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it might feel hard, but if I'm not obsessing, like, oh man, I'm at 170 already and I'm 10 minutes into the workout, like that'll that'll psych me out too much for the rest of the workout.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, three three of those sessions will be pretty high heart rate where I could feel it thumping for sure.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: So do you think in endurance training whether riding high rocks from your experience, like would you say we're too afraid to be like for the fatigue or like a little anti-fragile a little bit?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I would say that, yeah.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I might be uh in the minority there, but um figure I high rock that's for that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: There there is a and I think this is not just a social media problem.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also kind of like a wearable tech problem.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think a lot of people like ourselves who run a lot, who care about the sport of running, or just care about their body and how well it's operating, look at the stuff that we got, like the garments and the and the eye wear an order ring, and they'll see those metrics, and you know, they get a little spooped if their sleep score is off, or they'll get like, you know, oh, my readiness or my training preparedness is low.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should back off today.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I I hate to sound like that kind of hard driving coach because my clients will tell you I'm not this way at all.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: But but I I would say look no further, depending on how good you want to be, right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you just are content with being a relaxed, easy runner.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if you want to be good, like look no further than some of these guys like like Rory or or some of the guys who are leading you know the charge and the marathons these days who will say, like, hey, I got five hours of sleep.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Connor Mance does this all the time.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: He'll, if you follow him on Strava, he'll like post like, ah, I didn't, you know, I didn't have a great night of sleep, or like, doesn't matter.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't feeling great, but we're still pushing this effort today.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, I think within reason, of course, there should be a uh a dialogue with yourself where you say, like, hey, you know, if it's three hours of sleep, okay, maybe rest that day.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I do think when it comes to intensity, like there's a few factors that you should really consider.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, um, I I look at it, and this is what I tell my clients is like, hey, like there's gonna be days, fluctuating days of motivation.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: To do the hard stuff, but um the more you do the hard stuff, the easier the easy stuff becomes.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to kind of look at it from that lens, too.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is like um the longer you put off a hard workout for whatever reason, um, the harder it gets um when it comes time to actually face the music.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think, yeah, people should generally, if they if they care about seeing the line go upward and to the right, be pushing it a little bit more if they they want to they want to succeed at some some stuff.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that, man.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a great point too on the watch, man.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've been guilty of that myself.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure a lot of people like a lot of the markers, sleep ready score, it's not a beautiful color, it's like red.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: So instantly we're triggered like, oh, wait a minute, let me back off here.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, versus like if you go off feeling like if you always wake up at four, which is my case, like some days it ain't it, and you still oh workout went great.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, honestly.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: I will say I was just talking a little bit to hear you say that because I see you put a lot of data out there too.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, what data do you track?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or you favor that's like, okay, this is actually important actually.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I do rely pretty heavily on the aura.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my watch is actually Amaze Fit.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're uh they're a Hyrux, uh more HyROX oriented brand.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but um Amaze Fit gives me some metrics that I that I look at.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um their sleep score is maybe a little bit more generous than my Auras is, and that's fine.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know Aura is kind of a harsh critic.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I mainly look at I mainly look at um sleep consistency.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the most important thing when it comes to feeling rested, because I know some days my sleep score will say one thing, but I'll feel completely different, is just get into bed around the same time every night.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know I'm not gonna necessarily wake up the same time every day for whatever reason if I got a client or something else is going on.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um sleep consistency, I think, is the most important part.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that the more that I focus on that, the sleep scores kind of follow suit.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I think that's one thing I track is just how well I'm getting to bed at getting in bed at 9:30 every night and like eyes shut eyes shut by 10 is a big metric for me.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I look a little bit at HRV, I don't get too neurotic about it because it does fluctuate.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I just listened to a modern wisdom podcast maybe a couple weeks ago or a couple months ago where he had this specialist on who was like, you actually don't want it to fluctuate too much.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, but I thought if it goes up, that's good.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, you kind of want it to be the same range throughout every couple of weeks.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll look at it.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I think you know, as a long-term trend thing, I like to make sure that it's mostly a straight line with not too many deviations.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I do find that maybe it's a chicken and egg thing, but I do find the more that I focus on that, um, the better I feel.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe maybe if I had always felt good, it would still be fine anyway.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: But and then resting heart rate, really.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think like, you know, I'm I'm big on that.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's maybe a little bit pre-it's I think it kind of predates some of the data that we've started to obsess over.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: By we, I mean like the running community.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um, if you remember when uh David Goggins released his book, like his big book, I think it was back in like 20 2018, maybe.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I read it and I never forget this passage where he talked about one after he lost all his weight and then finally got into um accepted into the SEALs training program, he talked about how fit he got.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Yeah, my rest and heart rate was somewhere around like the low 30s every night.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, he's certainly not a guy I want to like emulate every part of my life around.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I just thought, man, that's so cool.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like to get your heart rate that low and see what he does.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, he's still super fit.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like there's not necessarily any downside to having super low.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been striving to get my heart rate as low as I possibly can because um just like the HRV and the sleep, it I think it correlates really well with how I feel.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it makes it it pretty much ensures that my running heart rate is going to be lower when I'm actually training.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the big things.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk high rocks here for a bit.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: It is getting ridiculously fast right now.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk here.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: What's happened in the last two years?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because we've had like new records and faster and faster lines.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Man, um, there's a lot of ways to answer that question, but I feel especially I feel especially um lucky to have gotten into it when I did.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So my first HyROX was New York 2024, and I remember it like it was yesterday because the peer didn't look like you raced New York this year, so you the peer didn't look like that two years ago.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was nice, but it's changed a lot in terms of the presentation.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's that's more of a high rox revenue thing, but but but from a sport perspective, like I can also look back at 2024 and say, I think there were a it was a one-day event in 2024, right?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there were 130 pro men.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I raced pro um since since my very first race, and I never looked back.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe one day I'll do an open, but that's another story.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and there were 130 people in my pro heat, and I think this year it was 750.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um the growth has been insane.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think call it marketing, call it whatever you want.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think people recognize from a purely competitive perspective that it's literally it does live up to, and I don't think a lot of fitness brands necessarily do this perfectly, but HyROX is pretty dang close.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: It does live up to its slogan on like almost being for almost everybody.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say almost everybody, uh, because so many people have joined in the party, so to speak, and love it.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's just a phase, I don't know, but it's grown tremendously just from a popularity standpoint, just because it is all of the things are relatively attainable.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's their they're they're machines, everybody has at least seen that in a couple of gyms, and you know, can do once and say, all right, you know, that wasn't my best time, but I know it's the same race again.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go back and do it again, hopefully be better next time.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas very similar to a running race, whereas you know, CrossFit, I think, where they lost some appeal is that CrossFit games change every year and there's a new obstacle every year, and that's kind of fun for some people, but it's not fun for everybody.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, it's grown a lot from a popularity standpoint.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: From the athlete side, um, I think it's just a it's just a repeated exposure thing.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking about my own personal progress before this, but like, you know, athletes, the more races you run, the more you're gonna learn, like, all right, this is what my body responds well to, and this is what it doesn't.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of the a lot of the most competitive times out there, and we're talking like sub-70 minutes, um, just learn with more data that like, hey, I think I think it's a good, relevant running topic because running is so much of the race that like running more seems to help.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I've found that to be true.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Doing more running of all kinds is is really, really helpful.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think more people are starting to realize, especially with Dylan winning world championships this past year, that like you don't necessarily need to be this big, bulky guy to join the sport and do well in the sport.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, strength is a part of it for sure, but I think there was already such a big community of endurance athletes, cyclists, swimmers, runners, you name it, that everybody who now knows a little bit more about the race, because I think like we're starting to learn, we're starting to see more of the race broadcast out to people.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And competitive runners, competitive tri athletes, whatever, like we give this a shot.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then they end up loving it and they end up being really good at it.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like the athletes are just recognizing that endurance is such a big part of it, and you know, every person is gonna have a different endurance training protocol, but I think the endurance piece just makes people like it's just more the more you do it, the better you get.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the athletes are just getting a lot, lot better, a lot faster because um we're figuring out what works.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: People will famously say, like, yeah, people people will differ train for it differently and see different results.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's we're starting to see a formula.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I can't for sure say what that is yet, but we're starting to see like some semblance of a formula that leads to success in IROC.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, and the elites are figuring that out if they haven't already.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think the sport has changed more from like fitness people who run versus like runners who figured out the lifting and the stations?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what exactly do you mean by that?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like the people who are already participating uh in the sport, or do you feel like, or are you asking, are there more people who are non-runners gravitating toward it?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, so like let's say at the top level, right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: League 15 or sub-70 minutes, those who have figured it out and running faster, faster.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like the sport has changed from like, all right, I'm just a very fit person who I took some running in there and now I, you know, I do the safety.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was already strong from my lifting bodybuilding background versus now you have these fast runners, swimmers, tri athletes who have this big ginormous base, and maybe they didn't lift as much.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um kind of somewhat taking up times and going really, really fast or or winning uh some of these events now.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's actually the latter.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: The if you're if you're if what I'm understanding is correct, that people are realizing that it's mostly uh like strength is not as important as as we think it is.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's how I would look at it, at least.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think strength is definitely important, but there is this kind of middle ground, which a lot of high rocks athletes will refer to, and coaches will refer to it as strength endurance.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And strength endurance is not quite the same thing as strength.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's I'd say it even skews more, it's probably 70-30 uh or even 80-20 endurance versus strength, because it's like the the bit the bit of strength you do need is mostly at the beginning of the race uh with the sleds, I think.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I found, I mean, the sleds are just a wild station that can change from race to race, but I found that like if if you put this has been my strategy for my past couple of races, I don't know if other high rocks racers do this, but but I find that if that first big push is just like a big oomph of a push and you got a decent bit of power output, I don't look at um I don't look at wattage like when I run my runs, you know, they have like wattage, that's like a metric I don't really track.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're a high wattage runner and you've got some good power output from your legs, the sled's probably gonna move, even if you're a twiggy dude or or girl, like it's like it's just gonna move a little bit faster.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, sled pull, a little bit different.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little bit more technique to that, but like those two stations right there are probably the most strength intensive.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: You've got walking lunges, yeah, but I tend to think most people who can run 25 to 30 miles a week, they might cramp up at walking lunges, but they could get through that station with not too much lunge practice.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then wall balls.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wall balls is theoretically more of an endurance workout.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a 20-pound ball, which is not a lot of weight, but it feels heavy at a certain point of the race.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's kind of it's in this most of the stations, with the exception of sled pull, are in this middle ground of like it's a little bit more cardio than it is strength.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think it's more people are finding out that that's gotta be the focal point of training.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: What misconceptions do you think HyROC still has even today, even though it's growing so much?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I think it's it's I I play along with the jokes a lot, but I think that it's that it's too much of a cult.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think here's the thing people people think it's very culty because a high rocks is a whole event, right?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can announce that you're running a high rocks and then you know you can fundraise for it, or it's like a marathon.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like for a little while, it becomes somebody's personality.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that in and of itself is is enough fodder for people to make jokes about it and be like, oh, you're part of the cult now.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh yeah, but I've known people who've just done one and like that's it, they're good with it, right?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's not quite as culty as I think people make it out to be.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just like anything, any habit really, that I think it just because it's commercialized, I think that's why people make more memes about it than than other things.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: But if somebody gets in, does well at it, like they're just gonna enjoy it and keep doing it.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they might fall into the trap of like posting all about it on social media, to which you know you're gonna get some jokes about you there.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um it's really not so culty.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think like anybody who's been to one, and you've probably seen this, like it's like a whole you know event.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like you go, you can just hang out at the venue, you can cheer people on, and you can you can have a great time if you're not even racing.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like some people uh might not want to admit it, but they're probably just a little bit sad that they're missing out on some of the fun, I think.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely like a festival kind of vibe with fitness and racing added to it, you know.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that turns some people off.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Some people get a little bit, I don't want to say offended, that's not the right word, but some people get a little bit put off by the idea of people showing off their fitness to other people.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I think that's kind of a weird, that's a weird way to uh make fun of somebody.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think if anything, that's something that should be celebrated.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: But we live in an era right now where people get made fun of for trying hard at stuff.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I don't know.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Where do you see the sport growing into in the next like say three, five years?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: People get faster.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: We talk more sponsors already, but yeah, yeah.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely see some more money coming into it from a business side.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think people understand that it's a sustainable one uh because you know there's there's it's starting to become, at least I think, just from what I've seen in my in in the in the growth in New York City being here in New York, is that it it's not quite Olympic village level, but I would imagine that people traveling to a city for a high rocks weekend probably does some good stuff for the local economy, like for a for a good bit of time.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I I do see some more money flowing into it.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, from the athlete side, I have heard rumblings.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not an insider, so I don't know, but I've heard some rumblings about you know 2032 Olympics.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's definitely that's definitely on the table.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I also just think we're gonna see more runners, maybe even marathoners, competitive 1500-meter runners, join the sport just to give it a go.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it might kind of get a little chippy there because I think this happened when high rocks started to become a thing back in like 2018 or whenever its inception was.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the first few HyROC athletes, Hunter McIntyre was one of them, joined CrossFit uh competitions just to be like, oh, I could do this.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like he actually did pretty well in one of the CrossFit games and was like, see, what you guys do is easy, high rocks is harder.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then he had some CrossFit people come over and do high rocks and be like, oh no, HyROX is easy too.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a little bit of banter and back and forth there.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think we'll probably see the same in like the broader running community where we get some super fast 800 meter, 1600 meter runners sign up for a high rocks and be like, what you guys do is easy.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then we might get some high rocks guys who jump over to like the track and try to race some of these guys.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that would be great.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we could we could definitely see some more growth there.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that'll be cool to see all that unfold online.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Might go crazy, but yeah, yeah, it might go 50, but uh but I'm here for it.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, that'll be dope, man.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I've funny enough, I've seen some and heard some marathon ramblers like, you know, I'm gonna give this a shot at a certain season on the off season.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not so much right now because we have Olympics 2028, so everyone's getting ramped up, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if after that.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Talking about NYT, man, like I feel like everyone right now, as a New Yorker, is either in a run club, doing a marathon, doing a half marathon, doing high rocks, so some crazy fitness.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: What is going on with the expansion and like growth of running high rocks endurance everywhere in New York?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, man, I I feel like it's tough to say because I was part of the that group that joined a run club and kind of was like a founding member of one back uh just a little over a year ago.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: My run club just turned one.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I mean, from my own personal perspective, I will say like I think the run clubs and the fitness communities in general who do it well are just that.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're communities, they're not just clubs where people get together to meet um and just run and then go home.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's something where it's like, all right, like you're making new friends and you're like gonna go out for coffee with them after and get a bite to eat.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you exchange numbers and and you you text outside of that.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I know there was a little bit of a meme with people like, you know, dating and run clubs and how taboo that is.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's like a kind of like a separate thing, but like as as a whole, I think it's just like people are finding more community in fitness.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it took a little while for running to bridge that gap because I think running was really popular during COVID, and then a few people dropped off from running after COVID, like, oh, gyms are back open, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, go back to that.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: But some people like yourself stuck with running.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think because running has seen such an influx of um participation over the past five, six years, even even more now, the people are realizing that it should just it shouldn't just be like, hey, let's get together, run, and then go home.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh no, these are like cool people, and actually they're they're trying to foster something bigger than just you know workouts here and there.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like they actually want to, you know, make friends.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think um as a city, and talking specifically about New York City, like there was a weird phase after COVID where you know a lot of people weren't going back to work, whether it was just they were working remote or whatever.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think fitness, when when gyms opened back up, fitness brought people back out of their house.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that was like step one of like this dominoes, these dominoes that started falling for people.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I think that really changed the entire you know perspective of fitness is that it was like I I forget where I read this quote, but it's it's it's it's you could probably Google it, but it's it's something like it's really hard to make friends after a certain age, like once you get out of, I would say once you get out of college.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the not necessarily the gym, but some of these smaller boutique gyms and run clubs are actually the place to do that, like almost exclusively, I would say, because um most of them, I think some boutique fitness studios will, you know, um have some sort of initiation membership fee, but like a lot of run most run clubs, I would say are free.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't cost you anything to go and meet somebody, say hey, and maybe develop a pretty cool, cool connection with someone.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like some of the guys in my run club who I've been running with for over a year now, like we'll go out to dinner and we'll like grab a bite to eat and like we'll just chat on the side now.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I don't think I would have found friends like that in any other scenario, other than like a fitness-based one.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think just New York, the reason New York feels like it's such a hub is because we're all just sandwiched together in such close proximity that um I think I think it's it's good for people to meet for something in what what a lot of people will call like a third space that's not work, that's not home, but something else.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that is usually where people can feel like all right, I'm not in my suit and tie, and I don't need to be super formal, but I'm also not at home and I don't need to be like too.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Laid back, I can be like just myself enough to like maybe open up to some people if I want to, right?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And some people who are a little bit more reclusive don't have to do that.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: But but I think that's that's kind of what we're seeing just as a whole in the city.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love every time I go back home and there's so much options, I don't know what to pick.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, but it it is a good problem, and to your point, yeah, man.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: I love seeing people like, hey, we're gonna go hang out, eat food, there's so much food in New York.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: So for sure, for sure.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Friend, you went to to worlds, man.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, when we first started chopping up, we talked about it.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: You went to Tweeding, like talking about it, man.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what what uh you went there, you had fun, like what do you think you'll remember mostly 10, 15 years from now about Tweeten and Worlds?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's that it brought about this mindset that I that we talked about uh in the in the very first part of the podcast, which is that like I found something now at 32, which a lot of people don't find, unfortunately ever, not to be too pessimistic about it, that that I both enjoy, I'm pretty good at and can get better at, and allows me to have like what I'll call like auxiliary, auxiliary fun, right?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so the things I'll remember most is that like first it changed my perspective about what my athletic prime was.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: I for some context, I played college basketball for three years.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I tried out for the Delaware Blue Coats, obviously didn't make a team, um, but that's how far I was willing to go to keep my athletic career alive.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until I found running that I was like, oh, this could be the thing that uh lets me extend my athletic longevity a bit.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, at first it was just a half marathon here, marathon there.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then when Hyrocks came along, I was like, wow, this is something that like I don't even think I've really scratched the surface of yet.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Even though the sport's growing the way it is, I still feel like I've got a lot of room to grow.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um, just being at that stage, there was a sign somewhere in Stockholm, uh, in I think it was at the race venue itself that said, like, out of 1.5 million racers this year, you're in the top like 0.5% who made it to Stockholm.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm a numbers guy, so I was like, whoa, okay.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, so seeing that um was a huge thing for me.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um memories-wise, I mean, Sweden was beautiful.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: We were only there for four days, but I wish we were there for 10.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: My wife and I were both like, this place is amazing.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we actually extended the trip and went to Spain afterwards for like a real vacation, and that was great too, don't get me wrong.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um, the Sweden had a charm about it that was just like um really laid back and it was daytime, like all day.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it got dark at like 12 o'clock, and then the sun came up at three o'clock again.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, with with particular regard to like what was most memorable about it, both the experience and realizing that um this is like something not a lot of people get to do.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I gotta like really soak it in.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then two, um, just being exceptionally grateful for the fact that um my qualification got me to that place, which I might have never otherwise been to, and I enjoyed the hell out of it.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was like my my devil's partner and I, we we we sit out till 3 a.m., literally till the sun came up, just to be like, this is Sweden, and like we're here and this is great.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like um, I'm big on trying to put the phone down as often as I can, as much as I'm at post on socials.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most of that time, I'm I'm pretty much post and go.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to be off the phone as much as I can.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I really I I really got to do it there.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I'll definitely reflect on that a lot.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's just how fitness in general has allowed me to do things that are really cool, like travel the world, so um, which I wouldn't otherwise get to do.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: That that's what I love about all this between uh high rocks and running some of these venues for high rocks, you're just like I want to go to the country and I also want to go compete there, but like I also want a vacation.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, it's hard not to.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: But hey, you just mentioned like your partner in in high rocks.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what happens to you guys when you go to you know, an event like a Sweden, if you will, and you just suffer it together?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wall ball, lunges, in the paint cave, or and you go through that sweat driven, you cross through that finish line.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: What happens to that like bond when you guys go through that together?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Man, um, it's really crazy how my partner and I, Matt, um, we're not racing together for the rest of this year, but we might do something again in 2027.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, kind of got acquainted.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I when I used to teach a little bit of group fitness, he came and took one of my classes.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, looked him up on social media after he took my class, my high rocks class, it was a high rox focused class, and I saw he ran a 310 marathon in 2024.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, like I did not pin him for that.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's a lanky dude, but like, you know, he didn't look like he was that kind of athletic.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, all right, dude, well, um, you know, random request here, but what would you think about doing doubles in um in High Rocks New York 2025?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: This was last year.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, I don't know, man, you're you're you're pretty good at this thing.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, man, I got like three races under my belt.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like not that much more advanced than you.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was like, if anything, you're probably a better runner than me.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's just, you know, get a few training sessions and we'll figure it out.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Long story short, we did one training session before we raced New York 2025, a couple of days before.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we tried our best to emulate what the race would be like.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we went to like a lifetime and we tried to do some circuits.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: It it just made us sore on race day.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we we went through it, and mind you, aside from the one workout class, a few DMs and the workout that we did together the few days before, it was not a whole lot of like hangout time.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I just remember talking to him on the pier in 2025, like, yo, like, you know, pick up this run for me, like pace me.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta what you know.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's something about racing a higher ox with anybody.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you'll, like you said, develop a bond with them like right away, where it's like you gotta trust that if you're racing for a competitive time, you gotta trust that your partner is gonna pick up when you inevitably slip or fall or whatever.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I can't say much about that 2025 race because it was a bit of a blur, but that was the race where we qualified for Sweden.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: We actually qualified for Worlds at that race.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: And since it was the last race of the season, they emailed us and were like, hey, you've got two options.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can race Chicago 2025, or you can defer for next year.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't know where worlds was gonna be.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: So me and Matt both called each other on the phone.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, look, look, man, um, we're both pretty fit, but I don't think we're fit enough to turn around a good performance in Chicago two weeks from now.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's defer.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then a couple days later, they announced Sweden.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, that was the best decision ever.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, great.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so to go back to your question, like, what's it like?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think it's an evolving kind of relationship where one race doesn't tell you a whole lot about your partner's fitness level.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even training can't really, like, I tell this to anybody who asks me about high rocks, like, there's no real training that's gonna feel like the race feels like it's very different from like racing a marathon in that way.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we trained all late last year in the lead up to Dallas 2025, where we actually had a pretty like not great performance.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we just like for us, it wasn't great.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: We still finished in an hour, which for Pro Doubles is pretty competitive.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, Matt hit a huge wall at the sleds, and I kind of started to hit a wall because I was like, we got to make up time, and then I hit a wall on the runs because we were trying to make up time, and it was just one of those races where we just like hugged after the end of the race because we were like, we actually weren't talking much that race.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: We were just like going off of like, all right, you look good, you you lead this one off, whatever.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he was like, yo, man, I'm so sorry.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know how seriously you take this stuff.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the first moment I was like, Yeah, this guy's a great partner because he was like, I let you down.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, first of all, no, you didn't, you didn't quit the race.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we finished, we crossed the finish line, like we're still top 25 in our age group.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't be upset.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so then fast forward to Miami of this year.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was incredible.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: One, because he was willing to travel with me to Ohio Rocks and like like go somewhere else um with his girlfriend, and like, you know, we raced there.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: And like that was the first time we actually like hung out.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like we went to I went to his Airbnb in South Beach, like we were just chilling.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: We just sat like by his pool, like hanging out, like, yo, here's the strategy for tonight, right?
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, it's very much like it's a partnership, but it's also very like if you care about it, X's and O's kind of stuff.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you'd be like, How are we gonna do this if this happens?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of got to have a mind if you if you want to be competitive with Hyrule to be like, what's gonna happen here?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: You got to be thinking two steps ahead about everything.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that about Matt.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was really tactical, um, about as tactical as I was, and I like to think I'm pretty neurotic, but he was he was right there with me.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, Miami, we tried a new game plan.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: We PR'd, we we ran a 58, and I think that was our highest, second highest finish after New York, where I think we were top 10 in our age group.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was where we were like, yo, this is clicking, like the partnership is like it's there.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's we're like we're we're doing everything right.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then New York this past year we ran again.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was this, it was more the same.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, New York was kind of a beast of a course this year.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like it was a little bit slow, but like we were hitting all our strides, we didn't feel like anything was hurting us.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Even Matt went into it like feeling like, yo, I'm feeling good.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was the race I think where we talked the most because we were one, we were in really good shape.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we had enough breath to be like, you got this?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: And like, yeah, I'm good, I'll hang back, whatever.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we finished up at 57 at New York.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, to show you how much the sport's improving, like we were, I think maybe sixth, I think we were 11th overall.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or no, sorry, 11th in the age group, 25th overall.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, even though our times were getting better, so were the rest of the pools.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: But that was probably our best race in terms of just like how well we communicated, how much it was like, yo, I got you.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: There was even a point where Matt was like, yo, let me take care of this.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, like he, you know, he he surprised me.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then Stockholm, I won't I won't say Stockholm was all fun and just for the fun of it, but um, we flew in with a couple of days to get acclimated, and there's some rule about flying and uh jet lag that you're supposed to give yourself the amount of time difference per hour, like that amount of days to fly into a place.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like I'm making excuses, but we were really jet lagged for Sweden.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't uh we didn't have our best time.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think we finished with a 5950, uh, which included three penalties for me.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've never got a penalty before.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um but we were chatting and communicating, but we were also just feeling really tired.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we, you know, I think it was probably after sleds where um I knew I was in the pain cave, I didn't want to show it to kind of give you a sense of like what happens during a race.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think either doubles partner, depending on their personality, is never gonna tell the person, like, yo, I'm dying, but I was dying.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Matt was he didn't have to tell me, he was showing me like we got to the rower and he was on all fours, he was on hands and knees, and he was like, uh, he was just going through it.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh now he can't do that anymore because apparently Hyrox is not gonna let you kneel or get on the ground when you're not doing the workout anymore.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so that one was more of just a like, yo, let's just let's just get through it, man.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we built the strongest bond there, not just because we got through it, but because just what I mentioned before, like we got there, period.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, it wasn't our best performance, but like we learned a lot about like what we have the potential to do.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I would say we got even an even better bond afterwards because me, his girlfriend, and me and my wife, we just partied the night our way in Sweden after that.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it was great.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and now we actually do hang out, like we schedule time to hang out, which is like to give you an idea of like how the crew camaraderie has built.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like now it's like, you know, we're gonna hang out with them next weekend in you know, in uh the North Fork or the Hamptons.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, that's that's like kind of the level we're at now.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it it took us a while.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe we're a little untradition non-traditional because most people who probably sign up to race the high rocks doubles probably do it with like a lifelong friend.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: I met Matt and within two months I was just like, you want to do this?
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Yeah, and we became friends that way.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it was working for sure.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a world.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so that's dope.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: DC man is pretty much here.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Weekend coming up as we're recording this.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's the game plan?
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: What is Fran looking for this weekend?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very superstitious, so it's tough for me to say exactly how I want it to go or whatever or what I want to predict, but like the game plan really is it's gonna sound super simple and basic, but just go fast.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I, you know, through both my run club and some people who I catch at some of the roadrunners races here in New York City, even my wife, um, say things like, you know, not just looking at my strabo, but they'll see videos of me running, and they're like, that's that looks you look like a different athlete than you did a couple months ago.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: And like um I like to think that about myself, but it's also very reaffirming when people like say it, like, yo, your stride looks different, and things like that.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: So like I think the plan is to go faster with less effort, if that makes sense.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like the paces that I was doing in New York this past spring um should be like way too easy, and I should be pushing it a little bit harder.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be peeking at the watch a lot more just to not really look at heart rate, but just look at my pace um and make sure that I'm holding steady to the pace that I want to hold, like sub-four minute one case.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's got that's gotta be the standard if I want to be in Elite 15.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Those those guys are doing 330.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know uh if we'll get there in the fall, but um if I could get down to like the 340s on one case, I think that that would be nice this weekend.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, not be too.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is just generally a problem with me in workouts, in races, in high rocks, not be too excited in the beginning.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's still a beginner problem of mine.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've only really been running seriously for like two years, two, two and a half years.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the the beginners kind of jitters still stick with me.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's happened last year at the NYC marathon.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, like um, just not going out of the gates too fast and then getting to the sled and feeling like I'm redlining already.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a given.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what most pros and elites will say.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and finishing, I think, strong has been something I've been focused on a lot lately.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, wall balls are my weakest station, so finishing strong is a big part of it.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a lot about myself doing wall balls in New York, that there was some people will say this after five or six races that if if you get really good at if you start to get good at higher arcs, you'll find that you know what you think is like your limit and like that extra level you have, specifically at wall balls where it feels like your shoulders are gonna fall off and like you're you can't squat.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's another level you can take it to.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt that on like my last 20 wall balls in New York, where like my arms are really tired, but I got to 80 and I'm like, we're not stopping, we're gonna keep going, we're gonna keep going, keep going.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, with New York being my best time, it was a 108.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the goal would be to channel that again, but for the entire race, where I feel like maybe I'll dial it back on the road today today and like give myself some some breath back.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, try not to lean into that too much to the intensity topic we were talking about earlier.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, really focus on all right, this is my chance to go hard.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna leave anything on the table just to be safe because my fitness is way higher than it was a couple months ago.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I shouldn't be prepared to send it.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the same goes for doubles too.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: I got a new doubles partner.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I told you before, he's uh he's an ultra marathoner.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's done a couple high roxes though.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: He did he did uh one hour open in New York City uh with his old doubles partner and he DM'd me right after.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, yo man, I see you do this thing for real.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to get a sub one hour uh doubles.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to run it with me?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, I do pro, are you sure?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, let's do pro.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we'll see we'll see what happens.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um he's incredibly competitive, and I feel like we have a shot at um doing some really impressive stuff.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say the word podium, but I feel like it's possible.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's not, we can't really rule it out.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that I've ran a 57 before, and that's eight or nine places off a podium.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there's a if there's a niche enough crowd in BC this year, I think I think that that doubles race that we could maybe secure an early ticket to world, we'll see.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: You get that podium.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: How how long are you happy for?
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: A day, a few hours, I gotta go back to work on this.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um if it's in the solo race, I mean, I I'm celebrating that all weekend.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um I might tell I might tell Alex and my doubles partner, I'd be like, hey man, you know, this is gonna be a chill, you know.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I won't I probably wouldn't say that, but um I would celebrate all weekend, but um I think honestly, I I wouldn't celebrate it for too long because the season's just getting started.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um like I said before, like this is a good fitness test, but it's also not for me to completely be like, all right, this is as high as I'm gonna go.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've still got Boston in in October, and then I'm doing New York Marathon again in November, and then possibly nothing else for the rest of the year unless some extra Nashville tickets open up.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um if Nashville opens up, that might be a chance for me to really push it and get closer and closer to that like coveted 60-minute mark.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um, hey, if we got a podium, if if I got a podium or if uh me and my doubles partner Alex did on Saturday, um I mean that's a ticket to Hong Kong right there.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't I can't I gotta celebrate for at least a day.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: So uh but it's a long season, and I expect to do at least three or four more races uh as the season goes on.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I I can't get too excited about it.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_02: We gotta brag a little bit here.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't talked about this, but like you've had a good few months, like you mentioned, a few times of training, you're getting fitter, you're running fast, you ran a one mile PR, a couple other PRs, like drop some times real quick, and then yeah.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so right now uh the one mile PR is sitting at 506.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um five second PR from last year.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's last year's new balance mile, which I think is also happening this weekend.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um really pissed I can't run that one because that's just a such a great race, just a straight shot down fifth half.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm I I really wanted sub five this year, but um hey PR is a PR.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't really track the uh lower to middle distances, so I can tell you what my 800 meter PR is.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think my fastest 400 is probably somewhere in the I don't know, 105, 106 range, which is pretty fast, but it's um you know not something I actively work on.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um my fastest 5k right now is kind of stuck at 1830.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I would I would love to try and drop that down in Jersey City in the weekend on the weekend before High Rocks Boston, but um might be a big ass, but I will see.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know Jersey City is kind of flat and downhill, so maybe I'll have some some work in uh some advantage there.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I did the Central Park 10K last week, no, two weeks ago, and um ran my second fastest 10k, but my 10k right now is sitting at about 38.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd love to get that.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Closer to maybe 36.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's somewhere over like sub-six minute mile.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, half marathon PR earlier this year was 122 um at the United half.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've been having I've been on a pretty good PR streak, not to you know to my own orange too much, but um I I think the progressions the progressions have been progressing for sure.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think every training block where I go into like I know exactly what my A race is.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like for that half marathon, it was like, all right, we're gonna PR this half marathon.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so like the training surrounding that reflects it.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um half marathon is 122.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have any aspirations to really beat that.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing the Palisades half in a couple of weeks, and that's like I think 1300 feet of elevation, so not expecting any PRs there.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the marathon uh right now is at 310 as of last year.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was my second marathon ever.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would love to go sub-three this year in New York City, so that's that's also what I'm training for.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um kind of tough, kind of tough to train for both high rocks and marathon.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: I do think they conflict a little bit.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so after Boston, I mean, really after DC, I was gonna do a big lock-in on heavy, heavy mileage, you know, 60 plus mile weeks if I can if I can swing it.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I've done one, you can call it Ultra.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I did the Manhattan perimeter in May, and we did it in five hours.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a super fast time, but um it was it was uh the longest I've ever ran, 33 miles.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um with a couple of stops here and there, if I'm being totally honest, we stopped to get Gatorade on the east side, and then you know, once again in Inwood, and then back down again closer to Chelsea Piers.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, my 50k is at like at about five hours.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm more than happy with that because I don't really even run that far ever.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my that's my PR that I'm gonna probably keep there.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing, man.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like hybrid for sure.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: Friend, I read that you said um fitness is just a vehicle for experience.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you trying to collect now at 32 and in the future?
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that goes back to my my uh High Rock Sweden trip, and that like it really is just um, you know, travel is a big part of my wife and I's life.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we love to travel.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're gonna be starting a family probably in the next year or so, but even with the family, like we're gonna want to be, you know, seeing other countries and stuff.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we just love some of our best memories have been um in different countries.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: So travel is a big piece of it.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um really, I mean, it's also a vehicle for me selfishly just to see what my real potential is, because with basketball, I didn't really realize it.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't think that was like because I didn't have all the basketball potential.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was maybe just like a time and place kind of thing.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, there was like, you know, I wasn't I wasn't six foot four in in 2000, whatever, and I I couldn't really get, you know, go to a good college or whatever it is.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: But running is one of those things, and and and fitness in general is one of those things where um keep working at it, you can carve out a niche that um is all your own and allows you to do things that other people can't.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: So um transparently, too, I think along with the travel and reaching my potential, like I would be a fool not to say like a brand deal or some sort of sponsorship would be great.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think having some sort of um brand who wants to get behind me, kind of like back how they did in the olden days.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't really necessarily want one that's gonna be like, hey, help us sell our product.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: I just want one that, you know, believes in me and is like, hey, you're a really talented athlete, you know, we'd love to have you representing the face of X because you know, you are a guy with integrity.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if they do sponsorships like that anymore, but um, I think that that that that would be pretty cool.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, I think also just like I said earlier, um when when it comes time for my future kids to see what I did before I become a full-time dad.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe you know, I'll I'll still keep up with this as a full-time dad, but um when it when it comes time for my future kids to see what I accomplished, um, to give them something to kind of not aspire to, but you know, push them toward a direction of of high achievement, um, have something like that as like a North Star.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm very conscious of you know what that can do to a kid too, not to get too philosophical with it, but I definitely don't want it to be like have my kids think, oh, I gotta be as good as dad, but like definitely want them to feel proud of their dad, you know.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like that's that's a big part of it.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that, man.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's definitely uh a long-term play, if you will, and like a lot of fun's gonna be had in between all that time for sure.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Friend, this was fun.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Looking forward to see what you got in DC first and foremost coming up next.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully it's getting the podium with a flag, but I know you're gonna have fun regardless and do what you need to do because the fitness that you got right now.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, appreciate you.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: We finally got to make this happen.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, looking forward to everything you got coming up, man.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you, man.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just great to have it.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, maybe we'll hop on again in a couple months and we'll see where we're at.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds good.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like a plan.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone, this has been the People Run podcast.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I will catch you on the next one.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, guys.