Latest / Spiritual Hot Sauce / “Throw the Rock: How Grace and Faith Work in Discipleship“ Ep#48

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“Throw the Rock: How Grace and Faith Work in Discipleship“ Ep#48 · Spiritual Hot Sauce

0:00
Chris Jones: Today we dive into the foundation of my personal faith, discipleship.
0:05
Chris Jones: And for me, if this isn't real, then none of it's real.
0:09
Chris Jones: It's the relationship between grace and faith, how those in need experience God's love.
0:17
Chris Jones: Welcome.
0:18
Chris Jones: I'm Chris Jones, and this is Spiritual Hot Sauce.
0:26
Chris Jones: Grace and faith.
0:27
Chris Jones: These are two incredibly important words to me.
0:30
Chris Jones: And I hope after I share what I'm about to with you, they will be important to you as well.
0:36
Chris Jones: They are the foundation for me of what discipleship is supposed to be and how we, the herding, connect with the divine.
0:44
Chris Jones: I want to start by giving us an overview of those two words and their relationship.
0:48
Chris Jones: I think of grace as the spiritual side of it.
0:52
Chris Jones: It represents how God connects with us.
0:55
Chris Jones: And I think of faith as our part.
0:58
Chris Jones: It's the physical side, the religious part.
1:01
Chris Jones: It's what binds us to God in this promise.
1:04
Chris Jones: And I think it's in that connection of what brings God's love and healing to humanity here through us, through discipleship.
1:12
Chris Jones: I think in order for us to be able to fulfill the commandment of Christ from John 13, 34 and 35, to love one another as he loved us, by this the world will know that we're his disciples.
1:25
Chris Jones: I think in order to love like Jesus loved, the kind of love that changes lives, you have to have grace, because only God's love can do that.
1:36
Chris Jones: Now, if you haven't listened to the last episode on sin, it would be a good idea to go do that, because it really does give clarity on what we're about to talk about.
1:44
Chris Jones: But I do want to give us a refresher so we get a good clean start.
1:49
Chris Jones: Now, if you remember, we talked about the three zones, and this is directly in regards to sin and mosaic law.
1:56
Chris Jones: But I presented the idea of a scale that started with a zero in the middle.
2:00
Chris Jones: And to the left of that zero, I had said, think of negative one, negative two, negative three, negative four, negative five.
2:07
Chris Jones: And to the right of the zero, think of positive one, positive two, positive three, positive four, and positive five.
2:14
Chris Jones: These represent the three zones.
2:16
Chris Jones: You have the zero in the middle, which is neutral or compliant.
2:20
Chris Jones: You have the negative zone, which is bad, and then you have the positive zone, which is good.
2:25
Chris Jones: Now, Paul describes this beautifully when he says, let the thief steal no more.
2:31
Chris Jones: In other words, get out of the negative zone, but go to work with his hands so he can make his own way.
2:37
Chris Jones: In other words, get into the neutral zone or compliant zone, not hurting other people.
2:42
Chris Jones: But he goes on to say, for the reason that you can help other people when they have need.
2:50
Chris Jones: There's the positive zone.
2:52
Chris Jones: Now, Paul said that the law was a curse because it could only condemn you.
2:57
Chris Jones: In other words, it could only get you to compliance.
3:00
Chris Jones: You could never get into the positive zone.
3:02
Chris Jones: It could only get you to a place of refraining from doing bad, the neutral zone, zero.
3:08
Chris Jones: I think that's why Paul called the Old Testament or Mosaic law of the mitzvah, a babysitter.
3:14
Chris Jones: Because a babysitter isn't there to raise you and bring you into maturity.
3:18
Chris Jones: A babysitter is just to keep you safe and keep you from hurting others or hurting yourself until mom and dad can get home.
3:26
Chris Jones: That's why Jesus, when he showed up, said, I came that you might have life and have it more abundantly.
3:32
Chris Jones: I didn't come to abolish the law.
3:35
Chris Jones: I came to fulfill it or complete it, to bring you the positive zone.
3:40
Chris Jones: Okay, so here's the thing.
3:42
Chris Jones: If we don't have a really good, clear definition and understanding of grace and faith, we'll find ourselves trying to get to zero compliance rather than the positive zone.
3:56
Chris Jones: In other words, where Jesus is trying to lead us out of that, we are going to use him in a sacrifice through a misunderstanding in a religion of pushing our way back to zero and making it the target.
4:11
Chris Jones: Weird.
4:12
Chris Jones: We're trying to use grace to be sin free in the sense of neutrality and compliance at zero.
4:18
Chris Jones: Now, I do want to say that in no way, shape, or form am I not saying that there's going to be transformation in your life to become a disciple, because there absolutely will be, but it has more to do with becoming than it does refraining from.
4:33
Chris Jones: Now, I think where this problem comes from is Ephesians chapter 2, verses 8 through 10.
4:39
Chris Jones: And it's how we translate or how we read the scripture that takes us to a place of trying to get to neutrality or zero, the wrong target.
4:47
Chris Jones: And I think our misunderstanding comes from where it says, by grace have you been saved, through faith, not by works, lest anyone boast.
4:58
Chris Jones: And what we've been taught or what we hear is that if you believe in Jesus, that's your faith, and that through that faith, God will give you grace and save you.
5:08
Chris Jones: But we're taught not to sin.
5:10
Chris Jones: And if you do sin, you pray to God and ask Jesus to forgive you for your sins, and that is what fully synthesizes you into salvation.
5:20
Chris Jones: Now in James chapter 2, verse 26, it says that faith without works is dead.
5:26
Chris Jones: If Paul really does mean that works has nothing to do with anything in your faith, that just it's strictly grace and is what we believe.
5:36
Chris Jones: And what's believe, it's an opinion of.
5:39
Chris Jones: So in other words, we are believing that your opinion that Jesus is Lord and Savior is all you need, and God will give the grace for that.
5:47
Chris Jones: But James is saying, faith without works is dead.
5:51
Chris Jones: In other words, James is saying, you don't have any faith unless you've got works.
5:56
Chris Jones: So either Paul and James are in huge contradiction or we're misunderstanding what Paul is saying.
6:02
Chris Jones: Now we got to keep in mind, this is Paul.
6:05
Chris Jones: Paul's the one who wrote Ephesians.
6:07
Chris Jones: But before Paul wrote Ephesians, he wrote 2 Corinthians chapter 12, verse 9.
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Chris Jones: That is the literal definition of grace given to him by God, as he says, the Lord said, whatever he was given in that definition previously, before he wrote this in Ephesians, is the definition of what he is using here in grace.
6:31
Chris Jones: Because I promise you, if the Lord gives you a definition, you're not going to change that definition over time.
6:37
Chris Jones: You're going to cling to that because now it's foundational in your faith.
6:40
Chris Jones: So guess where we're going?
6:42
Chris Jones: Yeah, we're going to go to 2 Corinthians chapter 12.
6:46
Chris Jones: Now let me set the stage for you of what's happening.
6:49
Chris Jones: Paul is frustrated in this chapter.
6:52
Chris Jones: Paul has been doing his absolute best, given everything he has, because he believes that God has told him and given him a directive to go out, spread the gospel, establish churches, do all of these wonderful miracles and things in the name of Jesus to spread Christianity to the Gentiles.
7:12
Chris Jones: Now, Paul is frustrated because no matter what he does, he feels like he is failing.
7:19
Chris Jones: And there's a thorn in his side, as he calls it.
7:21
Chris Jones: We don't know what it is, but he we know he goes to God over it a couple of times and asks, God, please take this thorn from me.
7:29
Chris Jones: In other words, please help me.
7:31
Chris Jones: Let me give you an example of this whole situation.
7:35
Chris Jones: And this helps us understand.
7:37
Chris Jones: Think of it like this God has told Paul, Paul, I want you to go down to the river and I want you to start throwing rocks across the river.
7:46
Chris Jones: So Paul goes down to the river and looks, and it's a huge, vast distance to get to the other side.
7:53
Chris Jones: So Paul hears what God has told him is you're going to be like a superhuman.
7:58
Chris Jones: At will, you're going to be able to pick up those rocks and throw them across the river, and they're going to land on the other side, which you really can't do as a human being.
8:07
Chris Jones: They're all going to hit the water.
8:08
Chris Jones: You don't have the ability to do it.
8:10
Chris Jones: But Paul goes down to the river because that's what God has told him.
8:14
Chris Jones: Now, Paul picks up the rocks and starts throwing them.
8:17
Chris Jones: Again, confidently thinking at will he's going to be able to throw these rocks across the river.
8:22
Chris Jones: But that's not what happens.
8:24
Chris Jones: The vast majority of the rocks he is throwing is just going in the water and they're falling short.
8:29
Chris Jones: In addition, there is something else that he calls a thorn in the flesh that's keeping him or frustrating him of throwing the rocks and getting them to dry land on the other side.
8:41
Chris Jones: So he's incredibly frustrated.
8:43
Chris Jones: So he goes to God and says, God, you told me to throw the rocks across the river.
8:47
Chris Jones: I'm trying to throw the rocks across the river, but I can't.
8:51
Chris Jones: Most of these things are just going in the water.
8:53
Chris Jones: And on top of that, I've got this thorn on my side that is trying to keep me from throwing the rocks.
8:59
Chris Jones: I need help.
9:00
Chris Jones: At least give me some relief with this thorn.
9:03
Chris Jones: God says to Paul, it's in 2 Corinthians chapter 12, verse 9, My grace is sufficient for you.
9:11
Chris Jones: My strength is made perfect in weakness.
9:15
Chris Jones: Now it's in that statement we get the definition of grace.
9:19
Chris Jones: So let's start here.
9:20
Chris Jones: First of all, what is weakness?
9:23
Chris Jones: Weakness is a demonstration of lack of strength.
9:26
Chris Jones: It's like somebody that's lifting weights and they're trying to get to 200 pounds.
9:31
Chris Jones: They can't, they're not strong enough to do it, but we don't know how weak you are, or you don't know how weak you are until you try.
9:39
Chris Jones: It's in the action that demonstrates the weakness, or how far you can throw the rock.
9:45
Chris Jones: Now it's after he is told this, Paul starts rejoicing and says, When I am weak, he is strong.
9:52
Chris Jones: I will rejoice.
9:53
Chris Jones: Why is he rejoicing when God just basically told him no?
9:57
Chris Jones: You know what I mean?
9:59
Chris Jones: What God told him and why he rejoiced was this.
10:04
Chris Jones: Paul, I didn't tell you to throw the rocks across the river to dry land.
10:11
Chris Jones: I told you to give the effort.
10:13
Chris Jones: The results belong to me.
10:16
Chris Jones: If the rock carries a cross, that belongs to me.
10:20
Chris Jones: That's my results.
10:22
Chris Jones: I did that.
10:23
Chris Jones: Your effort takes it into the water.
10:26
Chris Jones: I carried it the rest of the way and it hit dry land.
10:29
Chris Jones: If it goes into the water, you didn't fail.
10:32
Chris Jones: I asked for your effort, and that's all.
10:35
Chris Jones: I mean, think about why Paul's rejoicing.
10:38
Chris Jones: I mean, that's a tremendous amount of weight to feel like that you have to throw rocks across the river every time.
10:45
Chris Jones: What a huge amount of pressure and stress.
10:48
Chris Jones: What a relief to hear that you're not responsible for any of that.
10:53
Chris Jones: Just go do your best and throw the rocks.
10:55
Chris Jones: Whatever results come aren't yours, you didn't do it.
10:58
Chris Jones: That's God's.
10:59
Chris Jones: You just do your best.
11:01
Chris Jones: That's easy.
11:02
Chris Jones: That's why Paul's rejoicing.
11:04
Chris Jones: That's God's grace.
11:05
Chris Jones: See, faith is showing up to throw the rock.
11:09
Chris Jones: Hebrews chapter 11, verse 1 says, Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
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Chris Jones: For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
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Chris Jones: See, faith has substance.
11:23
Chris Jones: In other words, it's tangible.
11:25
Chris Jones: See, we we confuse faith and belief.
11:28
Chris Jones: They're two different words.
11:29
Chris Jones: Belief is an opinion of, it doesn't require action.
11:34
Chris Jones: Faith is the conviction to the point that there's action.
11:38
Chris Jones: You throw the rock.
11:39
Chris Jones: It's tangible.
11:40
Chris Jones: You're doing something.
11:42
Chris Jones: Here's the disconnect.
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Chris Jones: We go in Ephesians chapter 2, verse 8, and we read it, and we replace the word faith with belief.
11:51
Chris Jones: So we hear it like this.
11:53
Chris Jones: We are saved by grace through belief, an opinion of that Jesus is Lord and Savior.
12:00
Chris Jones: Belief just means there's another opinion in the world.
12:04
Chris Jones: Faith means there's changes in the world.
12:07
Chris Jones: In Hebrews chapter 11, verse 1, and once you get the verse 2, it says, by this the elders obtained a good testimony.
12:16
Chris Jones: It's like Abraham.
12:17
Chris Jones: We know Abraham made some really bad decisions, but he kept showing up to throw the rock.
12:23
Chris Jones: And God gave the rock grace, and so Abraham had a good testimony.
12:28
Chris Jones: What God had promised him came about because he kept showing up to throw the rock.
12:33
Chris Jones: Now, if we go back to Ephesians chapter 2, verses 8 through 10, and we read it again, but with new information, it reads completely different.
12:43
Chris Jones: And again, remember, Paul wrote Ephesians after he wrote 2 Corinthians 12, 9.
12:48
Chris Jones: Same definition.
12:50
Chris Jones: We are saved by grace through faith, not by works.
12:55
Chris Jones: Let's read it like this to clear it up.
12:58
Chris Jones: You are saved by grace, God's results, in your effort of throwing the rock of faith.
13:05
Chris Jones: You are not saved by your results.
13:09
Chris Jones: What we sometimes do is we take these scriptures and we attribute them to the law and sin, the zones of neutral zone, of trying to be compliant with God's law, that we are refraining from hurting others, that we're in that neutral zone, like Paul said, let the thief steal no more, that we're not stealing, that we are working with our hands, taking care of our own in compliance and not hurting others, not sinning.
13:36
Chris Jones: I think that James and Paul are both talking about the commandment of Christ.
13:42
Chris Jones: James refers to it as the perfect law of liberty or freedom.
13:46
Chris Jones: Paul refers to it as fulfilling the whole law through love.
13:50
Chris Jones: And when we fulfill that commandment, we bring life and more abundant life here and now.
13:57
Chris Jones: And as disciples of Jesus in this, we give on need, not deserve.
14:02
Chris Jones: We don't judge, we don't condemn, we don't condone, we help the hurting.
14:07
Chris Jones: We're here on a mission of mercy.
14:09
Chris Jones: We just throw the rock.
14:11
Chris Jones: And if there's still any confusion whatsoever, he goes on to say in Ephesians chapter 2, verse 10, for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
14:30
Chris Jones: I believe he's talking about our path as a disciple.
14:35
Chris Jones: I don't think there's a contradiction between James and Paul.
14:38
Chris Jones: They're both saying the same thing from different perspectives.
14:42
Chris Jones: Paul's just introducing grace.
14:44
Chris Jones: Now, what I'm about to say might be controversial, but I think a lot of us believe that God doesn't work in human beings anymore spiritually or miraculously.
14:55
Chris Jones: I don't think that's true.
14:57
Chris Jones: I think he does, but it's how we're expecting to see him versus how he does it.
15:02
Chris Jones: I believe it happens when we're trying to help other people on behalf of Jesus, giving his love to those who are hurting and in need.
15:11
Chris Jones: I've thrown a lot of rocks and I've watched a lot of them just go into the water.
15:14
Chris Jones: But I've also thrown rocks where it was so life-changing in that person's life that they had such a personal experience with God that it changed everything.
15:27
Chris Jones: Something I said or something I did was confirmation that it was God.
15:31
Chris Jones: I'm totally oblivious.
15:32
Chris Jones: I'm just throwing the rock.
15:34
Chris Jones: But what God gave to them was an answer to their prayers.
15:38
Chris Jones: And it was done in such a way that it was miraculous.
15:41
Chris Jones: You talk about a boost to your faith to see God do something like that from a front row seat is pretty amazing.
15:48
Chris Jones: I've seen widows be helped.
15:50
Chris Jones: I've seen the hungry be fed.
15:51
Chris Jones: I've seen people that's lost their children recently be comforted.
15:56
Chris Jones: I've seen the sick be prayed for and visited when they were in need.
16:00
Chris Jones: I've seen the discouraged to be encouraged.
16:03
Chris Jones: And all of that came from putting my target past the neutral zone, like we talk about, of trying not to sin and just trying to do good by not hurting others.
16:15
Chris Jones: Once I realized that and I started leaning outward and trying to get into the positive zone and doing things as a disciple, not a believer, where I tried to become like Christ and how he loved others, that's when things started to happen.
16:32
Chris Jones: That's when I started seeing things.
16:35
Chris Jones: And there's no way to determine when God shows up and when he does them.
16:39
Chris Jones: I have no way of knowing.
16:40
Chris Jones: All I know to do is throw the rock.
16:42
Chris Jones: I am not responsible for whatever results come from that, but I am responsible for being faithful for trying to do good works when they're put in my path.
16:52
Chris Jones: Because that's what Ephesians chapter 2, verses 8 through 10 says.
16:57
Chris Jones: If we only allow ourselves to put our target at zero, compliance of the three stages, the neutral zone, then we are not allowing God's grace to come through us in people's lives.
17:10
Chris Jones: We will never become the antidote to the poison.
17:13
Chris Jones: If Paul would have approached what God gave him to do like we look at those scriptures, it would have been a different outcome.
17:21
Chris Jones: Paul would have gone down to the riverside like he was told to do, but after throwing a couple of rocks and not being able to do what he thought he should have been able to, Paul would have sat down waiting for God to show up and give him the ability to throw rocks across the river at will.
17:40
Chris Jones: Paul would have been in belief that God was coming to deliver what God had said would happen, which means Paul would have never thrown the rocks in faith, and we wouldn't be reading these scriptures now.
17:53
Chris Jones: In episode 46, we talked about where the problem came from, the poison, that from a tree of knowledge of good and evil, a serpent would give us a fruit that is the poison to humanity.
18:04
Chris Jones: It was the lie that he told Eve.
18:06
Chris Jones: You'll be like God, you'll be able to judge good and evil.
18:10
Chris Jones: And that produced a selfish autonomy.
18:13
Chris Jones: And that led us all into the negative zone.
18:16
Chris Jones: Now in episode 47, we talked about the babysitter, getting us out of the negative zone and into the neutral zone, mosaic law, learning how to refrain from hurting one another, becoming what Paul talked about, and let the thief still no more but go to work with his hands.
18:33
Chris Jones: This keeps us from hurting one another, but it doesn't solve the heart's autonomy problem, which leads us to what we just heard: that Jesus hanging from a tree would bring us the fruit that is the antidote to that poison.
18:47
Chris Jones: That we no longer sit on a throne determining who deserves God's mercy, that we give on need in the positive zone, active outward love and mercy without judgment, autonomy of stewardship versus selfishness.
19:02
Chris Jones: That change in us brings changes to the world.
19:06
Chris Jones: As I say often, there is a difference in being a worshiper of the deity of Christ in belief versus being a disciple of Christ through faith and loving others.
19:18
Chris Jones: When you have the opportunity, throw the rock.
19:23
Chris Jones: That's a lot to get your head around, guys.
19:25
Chris Jones: Thank you for sticking with me.
19:27
Chris Jones: I mean, we're basically introducing a new theology.
19:31
Chris Jones: Actually, it's not a new theology.
19:32
Chris Jones: This is old theology.
19:34
Chris Jones: This is like the first 200 years of theology.
19:37
Chris Jones: This is how the original Christians believe.
19:40
Chris Jones: If you like what you're hearing, please follow, please share.
19:43
Chris Jones: But if you do share, share your favorite episode and let people know why it's important.
19:49
Chris Jones: Guys, thank you.
19:50
Chris Jones: I'll see you on the next episode.