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EL TREN DE LA VIDA 20-06-24 · EL TREN DE LA VIDA

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Good morning, friends and friends, I am Julio Pérez and this is the
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train of life, a radio adventure along the routes of the heart. I
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want to invite you to travel with me and dream together in a better world,
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a different world where men and women of good will can live in peace
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and freedom. The train of life is a magaxine of good news and hope.
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This is a radio time specially designed for people like you and like so
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many truth seekers, of the only truth that can make us truly free come
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Te, I invite you to travel with us on the safest train of all,
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which will certainly take you to safe harbour. This is the train of
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life. Well, good morning, Spain. Bon día, friends and friends,
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from this corner, from the solarium from Barcelona to all the towns,
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to this mosaic of cultures, from our wonderful country, this solarium that is
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the Iberian Peninsula, the train of life, traveling through more than a hundred
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Spanish cities every week. We start today with a luxury guest sign. Ladies
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and gentlemen, don' t miss it. Let' s go there,
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ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, also all the pilgrims out there everywhere
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look not only on the mobile devices and on the different Spotify platforms or they
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may be tuning us directly or through our page. Three or Naput even in
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Jupiter, in Saturn, in Neptune, on the moon may be listening to
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us Martians, the Murtians too. But Martians too and can connect with us
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directly on the train of life. And we have a company of friends this
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wonderful morning. We have four fancy interviews and we' re going to take
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advantage of them very well. Today we have in our studies the pleasure,
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because I say that since I met Carlos catar is a man with a very
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peculiar empathy and moreover, he is a person made to want easily, but
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he is a man who has a very important experiential experience and he is helping
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many people to solve, since what we would call a crisis of identity,
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an authentic crisis of identity. We will talk to Carlos Cataric, who is
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a writer and lecturer in different countries. Now in Spain he' s giving
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lectures. He lives in Canada, but travels around some parts of the world
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as well. And Carlos is a writer and lecturer and he' s going
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to talk. It also offers some workshops on the subject. He will speak
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today regaining my true identity. Who I am. I, I am what
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others say that I am, I am what I have imagined, but I
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am not really. I' m really who I am in its pure essence.
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You know this about the drak queens who are doing workshops in several Spanish
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cities, including on a terrace. Regretful that we have to do this,
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because obviously, he is an activist prolegtbi the mayor and promotes this type of
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workshops, which may be what he wants. But it means the drack queen
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to teach the children in those workshops. It comes to be this in the
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end clearly, that the children who go to their workshops get dressed in baby
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baby and in the end think that if they really are babes, they could
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be babes. And if they' re babes, they could be babes.
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You tell me if this is a receipt. No, but well, there
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are things like that, not that distort human identity. But there is much
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more to say about preserving our essence, our identity or when it has been
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distorted, how, how to work them, if anyone wants to recover it.
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Well, Carlos can talk a lot and well about this and we have
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him here this morning on the train of life. Then we will have our
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psychotherapist Judit Casso or this woman' s agile verb and look let' s
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talk about a practical issue in families, jealousy between brothers. This is a
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topic, uh, because when one is only worth, but when the other
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comes, that the previous one tends to have locks when I don' t
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zeal higher grade and if they are more brothers, and this sometimes becomes a
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nightmare for parents, how to approach, how to deal with this at different
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ages, jealousy between siblings. Today the Jewish psychotherapist will guide us, help
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us untangle some unknowns who do not know how to solve them or focus them
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on the issue of jealousy between brothers. Here, on the train of life
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and my good friend, Dr Luis Carballosa, doctor in history and also doctor
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in theology, and is na the doctor who is a man who has been
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my professor of various subjects in Christology and eschatology, I always remember. But
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also, a man who is often also with us on the train of life,
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a great teacher of God’ s word. Let' s talk to
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Dr Caraballosa. The question is Genesis, the Book of the Origins of Humanity,
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because some say that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are, let'
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s say, somewhat pejorative, that they are not exactly the beginning of things,
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a subjective way of describing origins in the way that the most liberal aware
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say, but there are not many others who say what the text says and
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what is true. And besides, Moses was a man of exquisite training from
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the time he had. It was written in forms in synthesis. He was
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a true Moses intellectual of Egyptian culture and wrote the book of Genesis. Well,
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they wrote five books of the pentatheuch, but the book Genesis is a
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masterpiece of universal literature, as Dr Carrollos will answer this. It is the
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genesis, or it is a myth, this of the history of genesis,
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of the creation of the human being, the creation of the world, of
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the universe. Or it' s true. And if it' s true,
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how can we make sure so. It' s good, so don
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' t miss it. But finally, in the final Sprint there is an
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interview of Digital Protestant with my friend journalist Daniel Ozca, director of Digital Protestant,
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with yao mallenas already tomorrow is the coordinator from Spain of the whole Commission
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that is going to travel to Seoul to the USAN, that world conference,
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the most important in the Christian world that is held every twelve or fourteen years.
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Since a thousand nine hundred and seventy- four, the Lausan was inaugurated
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by Dr Bill Graham, and it was an explosive call that changed a couple
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Social paradigms were changing. The Church had to make a bet a day and
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that made an impulse in the vangilization of the world to this day. In
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fact, it is the group, the most growing emerging social group in the
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world today is Christianity, but good that it is a biblical Christianity, also
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not a simulation of Christianity. But then we talked about that thing. Conference
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in about twenty minutes already or tomorrow brings us up to date on that great
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event in Seoul, in the capital of South Korea, where there will be,
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then, exhibitions, panels, forums, discussions, works from a sociological,
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anthropological, biblical point of view, of course, theological, and then,
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how to make summaries and how to bring this down to our national realities.
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And well, it' s going to be a spectacular conference, about
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five zero representatives from about 120 countries around the world and among them, and
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I' m also honored to attend, to be summoned to that conference as
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well. But the important thing is the conference itself. And then, then,
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we' ll keep working. So, don' t waste it this
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morning. We have stuff and good stuff on the train of life, because
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come with me come on, come on, let' s go. You
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can send your message through our facebook through our Facebook, entering between its double
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points the train of life, point is, the train of life, point
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is. Remember that this way you collaborate with us. Tell us your impressions,
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ask us and participate actively. We want to meet you. We want
11:33
to meet you. Enter our website three double subs dot the train of life,
11:39
dot is and follow us through Facebook, through thief cer. No one
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will come tonight, the dj, and the time will know. There are
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gentlemen who do not show you the month towards this close bride preparing with a
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thief in Monche, bandages adie the day and the hour Samón. There are
12:31
signs that show the messy towards these cock has prepared me free for my church,
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prepare another hour and return the king return soon Church prepares and returns hour
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and returns to pocho in a viz will be seen we will be snatched and
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all, together with the Saints you, your will go towards the beloved euro
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brisrades we will be caught up and that all, together, like the two
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Saints, his we see to be loved certain bremamente devir de certa. I
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think you' re a man to be with the parented father of this little
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crestecite Jesus was preparing a little purple father or good your church preto king of
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one way and returns rare. My Church rowing king back, come back ay
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horror mor el gaño ve a no take to gsino that to walk to her
15:22
coming saw her eat for the wild groom sea. There' s no homor
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in the middle of the night. I am sure that to walk his fortune
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when he sheep and all through the nudium is the good kills Church Breva air
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and will return and return to be imprisoned or soocris sondo, the Law of
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Traffic and Road Safety has changed, we change the rules, because the way
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to move has also done so. That is why now the deadline to recover
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the initial point jump is two years, without committing infringements that involve the loss
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of points. New times, new rules, Directorate General of Traffic, Minister
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of Interior, Government of Spain, will see in the ultrasound evidences in this
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effect, indicating that after birth he may have problems of integration or difficulties in
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exercising professions of responsibility and even situations in which his physical integrity or his life
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is endangered. But what is it doctor, you are going to have a
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child. Discrimination against women in society leads to abuse without justice and ill-
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treatment. Don' t let him. They' re coming in. Act
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with Amnesty or Amnesty International. If you want to visit our website, the
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train of the life of ladies and gentlemen. Well, here we are in
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the Magistrales wagon is a headcar. We' re very close to the locomotive,
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uh, but it' s a wagon where we welcome very good friends
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to talk about everything. Here we speak of everything, of all life,
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and of things of life, things, heavenly things, and earthly things.
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Also, of course, we are not, we are not androids, we
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are human beings, but we have had an experience with God, with that
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good God who loves us so much and is a very powerful reality that affects
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our life, mine and also our guest, Carlos Qatar, that I want
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to present. Carlos is a writer, lecturer and he has lived a very
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unique experience and has become a kind of coach, a companion of people who
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need the help he himself, at a given moment, also received to get
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out of an identity crisis. I would say serious and he got it and
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he tells it to many who find God' s blessing in that new proposal
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that he will explain to us at a welcome moment, Charles. Thank you
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very much. Porth Julio Hey, it' s nice to have you here
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traveling to Europe, seeing at least once a year. In the last two
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years I have come four times, four times, to Europe. Yeah,
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yeah, yeah, yeah, sure,' cause you come a long way
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from Canada. No yes, in Montreal signify today how beautiful Montreallito, for
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look at it and then come to Europe, well, the great Europe,
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the self- complacent Europe, the sophistics of Europe, the unbelieved Europe.
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I can give you titles, eh because, as soon as you know,
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there are in Europe, because we talk about questions in the key of faith
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and Christian as well and realities that we will now comment on. But the
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idea of the European Union, which has been de- Christianized by forced marches
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of what was the cradle of Christianity, in addition to being the cradle of
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democracy, not only Europe, but Protestant reform. Oliver Corombell and others were
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the driving force behind democracy, which was then perfected. But really on this
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continent, Christian Jewish culture wants to erase itself from the social imaginary. They
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interpret it to be blaming, that it is repressive, that it is this
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pass, that it is a chronicle, that this has already happened to history.
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I don' t know if you perceive that too by those lares.
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It' s the same thing, especially in Canada. It' s a
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copy of what' s going on here. Yeah, well, look,
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I can have some fun. Yeah, yeah, like I meant, let
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' s finish what the psalm says. Two didn' t all come together
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against the Lord and Christ and said let' s break their ties. Let
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us cut this and remove from the social imaginary, Judeo Christianity, which has
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been the cause of many evils. Not that those who don' t understand
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the story well, because they want to tip it off. It is true
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that a part of true, Christianity. It was a spurious Christianity and but
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that would be another matter. Carlos tasting a man. Joe you have Carlos
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arenta I just got to the fourth floor, fourth floor, that or,
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well, I do, yes, yes, hear forty years, whoever was.
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Uh, then, look, well, I' m telling her to
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be. But I have the marquietus rooms and then I remember. When I
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was forty, I ate half the world, I tried to eat it myself
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before they ate my lives. But Carlos, who is Carlos Catari For our
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listeners, tell us a little bit about yourself about your personal story. Today
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I could say that I spent a lot of time looking to find out who
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I was. Today, thank God, I know who I am, but
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I remember those times, because of the sexual abuse that I lived in childhood,
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because of my father' s rejection, because of my mom, I
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was such a strict woman not knowing who I was. Feeling little man,
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feeling insufficient, is comparing me all the time with other men at the same
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time that I lived an addiction to sex. He' s too young because
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of so much abuse. There' s a point. Out there, like
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when I was fifteen, where I think I' m what I feel there,
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what I feel exactly, then I feel betrayal for this I' m
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gay, because that' s what I feel, what I feel I defined
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that I lived it bitterly, because I tried to see whether or not I
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fit into society. I felt like an extraterrestrial, until, over there,
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about fifteen years old I discover what the LGBT Plus community is, where they
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tell me yes, here you are free to wish what you feel, here
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you can belong, here we receive you with open arms and it was the
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first time that I can finally put it as a label to my identity.
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I' m gay because, because this is what I feel and there I
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found a sense of belonging in that community about fifteen sixteen years. After that,
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when I make my way out of the closet and tell my family what
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happened to me in childhood and at the same time I share that I am
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gay. My mom, who was a pedagogue and she really has a very
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good ability to analyze and make you analyze. She tells me son and if
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I had never been sexually abused in childhood, I would be homosexual I understand
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that not all homosexuals were abused and not all abused so homosexual, but this
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is my case, this was very frequent. That' s right, yes,
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it' s a lot of experience. It' s not always already.
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Clearly, it is already interesting to underline. It is. The point
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is, when she asked me this question, I say wow. I'
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m probably the result of what someone else decided in childhood. Why do I
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say this, because when I lived the abuse, the abuse was pleasant,
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it wasn' t violent. Then the abusers sought, through the persuasion of
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the games, to become addicted to what I felt and then perpetrate the abuse
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to a greater level. But they make me addicted. Then I understand that
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he enjoyed this and that I was finally a victim of what they induced me
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to do. There. When she asks me this question and she says good.
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And if I hadn' t been abused, I say wow, what
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would my life be if I' d never experienced so much intimacy with so
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many men since I was five years old. I said maybe I wouldn'
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t be here, maybe I didn' t like men. And there I
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begin to fight now with this identity that came from establishing itself. And I
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remember I said good. I don' t want to be gay, I
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want to be straight, which I thought was the solution. Today I understand
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that this desire to pass from heterosexual homosexuality was a disaster. It was the
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worst thing I could do, because I didn' t have any attraction for
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women for men, a woman and a chair were the same. There was
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nothing there and I wanted to force myself. So I lived for what I
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felt up to that moment, but now I struggle with what I feel about
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it, all of this I' m living as a mateo. We were
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not Christians, we were Catholics, not practitioners. We thought more of the
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Dart O soup, of the evolution of the monkey, the Big Bang.
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That was our belief. And at this point I have the opportunity to go
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to the movies and watch a movie that transformed my life. And this film
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of which I was totally ignorant is the passion of Christ. When I go
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to see, I thought that Jesus, who was passionate about women and was
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a romantic movie, but I had no idea. Today I understand that it
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was Jesus' passion for his wife, for us, but at that time,
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for me it was one more movie When I entered the film I understood
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that Jesus did what he did to give me a new life, that he
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gave himself to give me a new life. No one explained it to me,
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but I understood and I wanted a new life and I wanted to change
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my life. Soon I start going to a church and that' s where
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I tell the pastor. Pastor, I don' t want to feel this
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anymore Before I was a Christian, I wanted to change. And now what
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do I read what the Bible says? Well, more than that, I
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want to change that I had back then, not 20 years ago, 20
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years ago there, in that position, I' m struggling to change what
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I feel. Then I lived for what I feel Now, I fight against
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what I feel. The shepherds said good to me, Carlos, you have
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to force yourself. You must seek this to obey the word. He'
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s looking to change. You have to honor God and I really tried,
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but first of four hundred and fifteen fifty- six says that the power of
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sin is found in him commandment. So, the more I focused on the
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most sin commandment and I didn' t understand what was going on and they
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told me you have to fight, you have to ask for more. I
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asked God to change my sexual orientation I liked men better. It was hell
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and that hell I saw for eleven years inside the church. I made trapigs
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of change, conversion traps where they wanted to take me from heterosexual homosexuality.
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It was a disaster. All I did was increase that anxiety, that desire
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to change, that desire to not feel good about myself and I couldn'
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t accept myself because of what the word said, but I couldn' t
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change in spite of my effort and there was no choice but to keep fighting.
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There is a moment of breakdown where, after even having a relationship with
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a boy for seven years, we get to the point where we said well,
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this relationship is over and I understand that I am frustrated. I am
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tired of fighting what I feel and there I look on the Internet for how
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to be gay Christian, because I wanted to look for God different and I
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fall at this point where your verse even the word, so that now the
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word will submit to what I feel. Then I lived for what I felt,
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I fought against what I felt, and then I twisted the word.
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Because of how I felt. All this was an identity based on sensations.
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What I felt was what I was heading until finally I have a point where
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being in the worst state of sin addiction to pornography, sexual encounters with man,
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applications to all suicidal depression. There, at that point I have an
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encounter with the Lord and through someone, the Lord tells me that the problem
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of many Christians is that they have Jesus as their Savior, but not as
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their Lord. When I understand that, I say wow, I said this
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is the reason for my life disaster. Jesus is my savior, but my
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lord is me and that' s where I gave up his heart to day
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and I said, Lord You know I don' t care if you change
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me or not I just want to keep you becoming my Lord. I did
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not know that until that moment I had made my desire for change an idol
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and I sought God to change me. I did not seek God for whom
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he was and all the time I focused on changing. What I did was
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nurture that idol. It was when I give up the idol, that then
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my life is transformed and there I finally find out who I really am.
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I discover that I am all that he says, that I am, that
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I am his son, that I am loved, that I am forgiven,
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that I am a new creature, that I have his spirit, that I
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am one with him, that I am holy righteous, the clean without blemish,
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that I was created according to his righteousness and holiness of faith that four
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hundred and twenty- four, that I only have to learn to live,
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not by what I feel, but by what he says. There is a
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text that allows me to understand this very clearly, and that is to snow,
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before the fall, they lived by the word of God. God named
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the animals and he named the animals. He didn' t argue, but
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when they sin we see how he says. We didn' t see each
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other naked and cover ourselves. I was scared and we were scared and we
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hid. I mean, it' s not what God says now is what
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I perceive, what I feel, it' s not what you say anymore,
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but my own perception, my own feeling, it' s what he
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directs me now. And that' s the way humanity lives. So I
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lived by what I perceived, what I felt until then I had an encounter
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with God, I give him the heart of truth, I give him that
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identity based on sensations to take again the identity that is in the word.
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And today, that' s who I am. I am all that he
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says that I am a man, that is, Carlos Qatari Is, he
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recovers his identity, that you understand that it is your original identity, his
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essence, that it is to be a man, as he said, a
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man, as God kills, not exactly in the sense, not he alone
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in a sanctimonious, nor a puritan, nor anything, any man, a
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man that is the gender that is assigned to you and that you rediscover it
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through the grace of God, because never better said no, because you discover
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grace. Perhaps your first stage was a well- intentioned Christianity but based on
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human effort, on the biblical law of desire, of personal effort, which
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one must cooperate with. One thing is to cooperate and another thing is to
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impose on you this and that which then you are repressing the instincts that re
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- emerge from everything not from this and anything. This fact hears there is
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one interesting thing in what you have described to many interesting things in your personal
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testimony. We could just talk about this. But there is, for example,
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this about conversion therapies. I think it' s a wrong term and
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clear is in fact, now they' re even banning them. They'
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re explicitly forbidden from an imaging therapy of you not. There' s no
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conversion therapy here. Here is a person who voluntarily listens to a testimony that
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has a conflict with his identity that he does not just do it and realizes
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that he does not, that he does not want, but he does not
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want and that he says listen I would like and when he hear a testimony
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like yours at best, find a little pattern of the grace of God,
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that I, grace I identify it as the catwalk is not when you go
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to an airport of these kilometers and you carry a maletorro and such and if
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you go around to cabar baldad, when you arrive to the area of embarkation,
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not because they are of these airports kilometers or in Miami and you make
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it dead. No. But if you go on the gangway that takes you
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to the boarding area, you don' t get tired carries all your weight.
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And for me that' s the grace. It' s God'
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s gateway when you tell him Lord I can' t, but I want
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you to touch my root, my essence, because that conversion therapies thing is
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being tempered. Not above all secularism, camper secularism and, above all,
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the VI LGBT is very proactive in this subject, but even Christians that term
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I have never liked conversion therapies. It just sounds. Sounds like a casquisian
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to me These conversion therapies are heavy. That is, I wrote an article
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every week in one of our magazines that are read throughout Latin America, protesting
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digital and writing conversion or doom. Speaking of conversion, I put three cases
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in the new will of conversions of different characters. One of them was the
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Ethiopian nuco preaching by the power of the word that Philip approaches him and was
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reading aloud and telling him what you read and I don' t understand what
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I read, and Philip explains no to him and that man experiences something inside
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him. But, well, then there are two more cases. The theme
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of conversion to Christ is neither homosexual, heterosexual nor Marcia. It does not
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mean anyone, of any personal situation, whatever it may be, can experience
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a conversion, a catharsis from the root of their being, which is a
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methane, and a change of mentality, and through one comes a kind of
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repentance. You realize you don' t go the right way, you ask
34:34
God for forgiveness and start a new life. So that' s the conversion.
34:38
But there is no conversion therapy. That' s a roll and if
34:43
used in something well intentionally with some Christian group here in Spain. I don
34:47
' t know him, but I heard him around. It has nothing to
34:52
do with conversion therapies that we' re talking about. Right. No.
34:54
No, no, no, because when I talk about trap conversion, it
34:58
' s that sexual conversion that' s part of homosexuality, the hesterosexual.
35:01
I experienced that kind of therapy in Venezuela when I lived in Venezuela more than
35:06
eleven years ago and it was really as much as they said good. Carlos.
35:10
In your case it is evident you lived abuse, rejection of your father,
35:14
in your mambre, strict, addiction to pornography, addiction to sex with
35:16
men. This is why she' s the one who was gay and I
35:20
was saying good. Let' s just say I agree with you how understanding
35:23
roots changes. What I feel, what I don' t want is to
35:27
feel this attraction and they called me good. You have to keep objecting to
35:30
the word. Then we went back to the same thing. It was self
35:32
- effort, self- effort and they called me good. Biology. God
35:37
created Adam and Eve, the man, the woman, and I said I
35:38
understand, I understand that I believe Adam and Eve, but I have no
35:43
attraction for Eve. I don' t have and I like Adam what I
35:45
do. I mean, I don' t want to feel this. And
35:46
they couldn' t help me in any way as much as they wanted to
35:51
always stay there and they wanted me to regret something that I didn' t
35:54
even decide, because I didn' t decide that I liked men. I
35:57
find I like men. Then what I discover ended up living and identified me
36:02
in what I feel, but I didn' t decide then how to regret
36:06
something I didn' t decide. It was very complex, but very different.
36:08
It was when I understood that God is what does not believe my change,
36:12
that what he wanted was my heart. When I give her my heart
36:15
and tell her I don' t care what' s going to happen to
36:16
me anymore, I want to follow you there. It' s done mateo
36:19
says that twenty- five where it says whoever wants to keep his life will
36:21
lose it. I had already lost her so much focus on my life and
36:23
then he says that he who loses his life because of me will find her.
36:28
It was when I lost my life, I put it aside without caring
36:30
what was going to happen, just to know him, that then he was
36:32
working with me with my heart and led me to a new understanding of the
36:36
Gospel, to an understanding of his forgiveness or an understanding of life, of
36:38
the spirit, of the new nature. And there I realized that what God
36:43
wanted was for me to raise my mind that I no longer lived for what
36:45
I felt, but for what he said. But I had to understand what
36:47
he was saying. He really hears that it is interesting what you count,
36:53
because that other is a totally correct way from the mobile, Christian and biblical
37:00
run, because it gives us to understand how the change in the conversion of
37:07
anyone has the identity, that has or that has a crisis of identity occurs.
37:13
There' s a lot of people who have to say, not just
37:15
a sexual identity crisis and a personal identity crisis. He doesn' t even
37:22
know who they are There are people who have a very diminished sense of their
37:27
inferiority complex, others of superiority, others who remain a messianic complex, that
37:30
they are believed to be the saviors of the world. Between us there are
37:34
a few of them as well and then, obviously, the crisis of identity,
37:40
of affectivity. Not then and when you start to discover and I think
37:45
the key word is God' s grace, but really this is wonderful.
37:53
When I arrived through the film The Passion of Christ, I came in love
37:58
with what he had done for me, unfortunately, within an extremely religious church
38:00
where all the focus is what I have to do for God. Then it
38:07
is no longer about what God did for mankind, but what humanity has to
38:08
do for God. That' s not the good news. That' s
38:12
the good one Those are the good instructions or the new instructions. What we
38:15
have to do for him to please him. And there, then, I
38:17
always fall short when I return to this point of abandonment that I give my
38:22
heart and decide only to focus on it. Then he follows the lord again
38:27
to reveal to me everything he did for me. His forgiveness, he carried
38:30
it through for me, the circumcision of the sinful nature with the Censes two
38:35
eleven did it for me, the new nature, the then birth. When
38:38
we believed he does it for us, he gives us his nature. So
38:42
now I no longer focus on what I do, but on what he did.
38:45
And it' s in that freedom that then I find out who I
38:47
am? I discover a new, a new truth, a new life that
38:50
was hidden in it. In fact, because we' re talking about sex.
38:54
I didn' t go beyond hehomosexuality, heterosexuality. I passed from desired
39:00
homosexuality to Jesus And once I am in Jesus and understanding who I am in
39:06
him, it is the year that the Lord shows me that I have the
39:08
ability to be with a woman, that I am going to be able to
39:12
give a woman a place and that for me was a discovery that I did
39:15
not expect, but I have to say it. Many times I was told
39:17
Carlos, but the original design is male and female. Man and woman,
39:21
I said, but I just can' t make it. I can'
39:22
t and they wanted to take me to that original design. Today I understand
39:27
that the real original design and I' m going to say it is not
39:30
man and woman. For me, the original design that broke when Adam was
39:32
about to sin was not heterosexuality. In fact, it was after sin that
39:37
they joined. The original sign that breaks is the union between humanity and God.
39:40
So, if we focus on the original key design, what we need
39:44
to do is to return to the father in Christ Jesus and let the person
39:47
be guided by the Holy Spirit. There, the Holy Spirit puts everything in
39:51
order, sexuality, mentality, finance, everything. But then it is not
39:54
a matter of sexuality, but to return to the father in Christ Jesus and
39:58
let spirits see the source, exactly to the source of our origins of everything
40:02
hears. But what you haven' t said, but it' s very
40:07
interesting that people have to know and that you' re a married man,
40:10
well married. I also met you with the previous visit with your wife,
40:16
that she is now pregnant and has not only pregnant, if I am not
40:22
pregnant, double two, pregnant and she is really looked so happy before we
40:25
were in the office chatting and of course all the changes not that she has
40:31
life is a gift and gift on gift what if she does me because I
40:36
have no longer sought my life. I was looking for him. Then say
40:40
the word make the lord your delight and he give to the desires of your
40:44
heart all my life. I focused on my heart and it went wrong When
40:47
I focused on him I made him my delight, then he himself took care
40:51
to give me everything my heart desires, but in a heart that was surrendered
40:52
to him. And there today my wife gave me that really, as I
40:57
say my wife, if it had been my turn to choose a woman for
41:00
me, I would not have chosen her, because my imagination would not have
41:01
reached that level. She' s beyond anything I could have imagined. And
41:06
not only that, but now I get a whole family all at once.
41:08
He gave me two babies, a girl and a boy who gave the father
41:12
how good they are being born in September. Thank God it' s good
41:16
to hear about being a father. I have two children already married and grandchildren,
41:22
but well I remember that covering of my life, the happiness of having
41:27
children and enjoying them. There is also there that is medicinal also when you
41:32
have children, when you have any and I also come from not exactly that
41:39
background, from this crisis, but from a troubled world. And when you
41:45
recover your essence in God, in Christ, and when you recover your true
41:52
identity in Christ, because I have a motto. I want to be like
41:54
Christ, but not because of the effort I' m going to make No,
41:59
no, I don' t want to be like I admire Christ.
42:01
I like the way he talks, I like what he teaches, I like
42:05
his purity, I like his approach to life, his redemptive plan. But
42:10
I follow him but knowing I can' t do it in my strength.
42:14
If it were not for the Holy Spirit, this would be a total failure.
42:17
But we have joy when we have loved in Christ, as Fesius says,
42:22
chapter thirteen. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit and he is our
42:29
helper and like me when every day I talk to him at any time,
42:34
day, but nights very particularly. And the Holy Spirit is so rewarding,
42:38
so precious. It is hear, fifty- two years later, Wow,
42:45
fifty- two years later, I am excited to be a child of God
42:50
and live near the Father' s heart. And it' s my passion
42:54
for my wife and my children, too, that you can. But in
43:00
grace, in grace, totally in grace, not in human effort. That
43:06
' s why people ask me, Carlos tells me, I want to change,
43:08
how you changed. I tell you, because I didn' t change.
43:10
I tried everything to change. What I did was die. I died
43:14
to myself and then he transformed me. But in my strength I didn'
43:17
t change. And where you invite yourself to die, to surrender your heart.
43:21
You remind me of Paul' s text to the Colossians. If you
43:24
can have risen with Christ, look at the things above where Christ is sitting
43:29
the resurrection at the right hand. The father says because you have died exactly
43:36
and your life is hidden with Christ in God. I mean, it'
43:39
s one there that explains us. That' s where we have the keys
43:44
to our understanding of what this is all about. Carlos, inexplicable. I
43:49
see it' s your book, a book, which is a success,
43:52
your shirt, but that makes a lot of people, but Carlos' s
44:04
explicable prece to taste a book that has had a lot of resonance. You
44:06
can find it on Amazon' s platform. Carlos catar Se, I recommend
44:09
his testimony, but with a few scraps of what he is talking about now
44:15
very interesting on Amazon platform. They can acquire it directly anywhere in the world.
44:22
Because inexplicable, because if we look at it this way, I experienced
44:29
a miracle. But I experienced him when I stopped forcing myself, when I
44:32
stopped trying, when I stopped looking for my own life. And that'
44:36
s where people tell me Carlos, but how was the process, what did
44:38
you do, and always got them killed. And dying, as in Christ,
44:43
is the only thing that gives us a true life. Then I tell
44:45
him what I experienced was inexplicable, but on a biblical basis you need to
44:51
stop trying, understand what you have to do, how you have to do
44:54
and stand aside, die yourself, renounce him, my lord, from your
44:59
mind and let him and his word be, lording you there the fruits of
45:01
the spirit. The fruitage of the spirit will manifest only because you are nourishing
45:07
the water of truth. The truth produces that fruit, but you need to
45:13
stop arguing with God with your way of thinking, You need to give up
45:19
that, Lord, and only and you will see transformation, because the truth
45:22
makes us free, but we need to know it. We need to really
45:24
not intimidate with the word, because, for example, you are already evident.
45:30
Twenty years have passed with struggles it also gives to get your affirmation in
45:38
God, also discovering the grace of God as the great resource. No,
45:44
because, of course, in the Christian world there are sections of the Christian
45:49
world that interpret the Christian life and this is true that we must cooperate,
45:52
we must obey. Obey er is an act of the will and you are
45:55
not a total passivity. But I hope he' s religious legalism that you
46:02
do this, do the other thing to be a good Christian. And I
46:07
' m not saying that you don' t have to do what you have
46:10
to do, but you do as if that gave us points to be super
46:17
Christians, better Christians or to get out of a personal situation. There is
46:22
a lot of days, because I know that the Lord is going to break
46:25
my chains and so and so all that kind of things interpreted like that without
46:34
realizing a kind of religious legalism in evangelical version. In this case we no
46:38
longer speak in other confessional versions, as the problem is still there. In
46:45
fact, I believe that what most bound me to sin in those eleven years
46:50
within the church, because it was from twenty to thirty- one, almost
46:52
thirty- two, was the religiosity, the true monster, the true monkey,
46:58
because they said that this is a spirit, that this is power.
47:01
Do not look at the true devil, great power is called religiosity. It
47:06
was having misunderstood the word that kept sin bound for so long. I didn
47:09
' t understand forgiveness. I thought I always had to say Lord Forgive me,
47:14
Forgive me, Forgive me, until I expected that I had not understood
47:16
that he had forgiven me, I had not understood what had paid him the
47:19
bill. I didn' t realize he looked clean on me. Then I
47:22
always looked dirty, always saw myself in my sins in my world. Then
47:24
I looked at the Cross hoping that that suffering would make me like to come
47:30
to my senses and stop sinning without understanding that there is a word that the
47:35
Lord Jesus uses when he speaks to Paul in fact twenty- seven eighteen and
47:38
says to him that I call you to receive the forgiveness of sin by faith
47:42
in my inheritance with the saints. The word that Paul uses there for or
47:45
that Lord Jesus uses there for forgiveness is affesis afesis in Greek, means forgiven,
47:50
leaving them as if they had never done so when I read that And
47:54
I no longer argue with God, but he is my lord I said,
47:57
Lord you are telling me that you see me with if I never lived what
48:00
I lived, not why I did not live it, but because you took
48:02
it from now on. Lord I' m going to see how you see
48:06
me, I' m going to look clean holy just with a nonexistent past
48:10
before your eyes. The enemy will always want to travel through what we did,
48:15
and I will always want to travel through what he did to us.
48:17
It depends where we put the mind how interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, especially
48:22
many good ones. Anyone who is listening to us, be not believers of
48:30
any denomination or be non- believers, but there is a key there are
48:35
people who are not necessarily believers of anything, but have conflicts with the subject
48:40
of their identity because they think they hear ah clear in schools, today you
48:45
say when to the first of change, when in evolutionary psychology it is not
48:49
that we have training in this. Well, there are crises, transitions,
48:52
not the crises of change that you don' t really know or what it
48:55
is. Because good. That' s why sometimes children or kids go or
49:00
masturbate each other or do things because to have the sexual impulse, to have
49:05
satisfaction and such and you don' t know even if you' re nothing
49:08
at all is just immediate gratification, not what experience, that experience of sexual
49:14
drive And that if you do this with such a weight, with a woman,
49:16
with a man, you' re that And stigma doesn' t then
49:22
internalize that lie And it' s the power of lying. It is the
49:23
power of innerized lies that occur within us, well, within those who live
49:29
it. So, a psychosomatic transformation. Even this is the I have proven
49:38
it in many cases in biblical counseling and when we have gently untangled that in
49:45
a conversation, not in compassion therapies, but in a dialogue, because the
49:50
person has wanted and more has already asked. Listen please and you' re
49:53
free. Help me. I have a conflict. I' m what I
49:58
really don' t want to be, but I think Italico and some of
50:04
them, then, have rediscovered their true identity. Others have not wanted and
50:07
nothing, for God helps them in the way of life, but each one
50:10
chooses what he wants to be. You understand and I respect and defend the
50:15
freedom that someone who has not known the Lord has to say I feel like
50:19
that. So I am what other choice he has If the Lord does not
50:22
know that is what he feels, but now I also defend the freedom of
50:27
him who within the Church, fights with what he feels and does not want
50:30
to be what he feels. That person also has freedom and live a different
50:32
life. You don' t have to align with what you feel in a
50:35
while, because give in to this. Then, when one understands that there
50:38
is a freedom, that there is a reality, an identity superior to sensations,
50:43
that is life in the spirit, that you need only believe the truth
50:46
and you will see how sensations and everything aligns with the truth, that person
50:50
gets freedom. Then he who has freedom to live as he pleases, who
50:55
defends it, but who also defends him who is not content with what he
50:59
does, people, I want to live differently. Gentlemen, we are talking
51:04
to Carlos Catari that well, besides writer, his great inexplicable book, which
51:08
is I recommend in any case that you can acquire it on the Amazon platform
51:13
and you will enjoy it very much. And well, we' ll be
51:20
a few more minutes, but right away, let' s hear a song
51:24
from our remembered and beloved Julio Melgar. I am no longer a slave to
51:27
fear, for fear is one of the non- paralyzing things. I lived
51:30
it for a long time until I understood that my mom, until I understood
51:35
that she was a son. Let' s listen to this beautiful song and
51:37
we already commented on a series of issues, workshops, etcetera in the final
51:43
sprint. Amen I am with a song of everything sings yes ner in fear.
52:09
I am not, I am a son of God, I am of
52:32
God. The belly is my love yes I received in you your saint my
53:08
own I am no longer exclaimer, I am children. I' m God
53:35
' s son, I' m not anymore. Eclade demodo, I am
53:45
the son of God. I' m not a scra anymore I' m
53:59
a son. That' s rolly for the parent grapples or for songs.
54:37
Li Verde we were led dora we are as you sing mother, oh me
55:19
o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
56:12
o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
56:32
o o o o o o o o I am not a son to you
56:32
are you dress mother and I am a son of God. To your gras
56:36
or son. You don' t know or I just know I' m
56:57
his son. It' s my mother and my father loves me I just
57:08
know I' m his son? Well is my father, my father,
57:15
my sister? I just him that I' m his son and he'
57:24
s my father and my father? I' m gonna be, that I
57:34
' m his son, and he' s my father' s and my
57:40
father' s? I' m his son and he' s my father,
57:51
my father, my hmay or? If we keep going after listening here
58:13
to Julio Melgar, freed from fear, I am not a slave, because
58:16
fear really paralyzes us. Eh puts us in a prison and you dwell all
58:22
the fear of man, the fear that we and when we do not know
58:24
well goodbye we have a fear that is not healthy. Nor do we,
58:29
when we have my novel we didn' t get near that mine had passed
58:32
me. How many fears we are surrounded by fears of all kinds, eh
58:39
and who bad. I, when I received the liberation from the fear of
58:45
the complexes, which had a lot and dwells you well, dwells you to
58:49
live, dwells you to die, dwells you to the people and how many
58:53
fears we do not follow with the theme of Carlos Catari inexplicable and it is
59:00
precisely that two Sundays to the friends of the Barcelona Area that can enjoy it.
59:04
But then we' ll talk about there' s also an open course
59:08
online for everyone who wants to follow up with your instructions. And all you
59:15
put forward in that workshop is a training workshop for pastors, leaders and evangelists
59:20
who in an appropriate way and I think really not only biblical, but intelligent
59:28
and kind and affectionate, because I told you before. I' ve lived
59:35
very closely. I have good gay friends today, some are believers and some
59:39
are not, but I maintain a very exquisite relationship. The truth is,
59:45
because to me they' re people like everyone else, exactly, I mean,
59:52
honestly, no more of a homosexual than a heterosexual. This is,
59:58
this is, this is some kind of stigma. We' re all sinners.
1:00:02
I have a sentence. I say no homosexual will ever enter the Kingdom
1:00:07
of God and no heterosexual either enter into the Kingdom of Today new creatures because
1:00:14
they were accepted, because they accepted and pardoned God for their sin. That
1:00:16
' s what gives access to heaven. It' s not sexuality. Yes,
1:00:20
and I told you that of my friends or I remember a couple of
1:00:23
them that sometimes even as with them and we talked, they are very affectionate,
1:00:28
they are very affectionate, they are very empathy, very very very and
1:00:32
some of them, because it is in that crisis. Or we' ve
1:00:36
talked about whatever they want. Not here is nothing forced on anyone or rolls
1:00:39
of these therapies. It just seems to me that word is totally inappropriate and,
1:00:46
besides, I don' t like it. It seems to me,
1:00:51
it' s kind of a way of manipulating someone to see if a therapy
1:00:55
makes it something else. No, that' s just jesus that makes us
1:01:01
who we have to be. And it is holy spirit that gives the true
1:01:05
condition or righteousness. Yeah, so let' s use that term correctly.
1:01:08
So I, I can talk and enjoy and we tell each other things about
1:01:13
career life, about work and by someone says good, but this is that
1:01:17
you have to get away. Not the other way around, it' s
1:01:22
just that I think it' s a mistake to either anatemize people, not
1:01:28
because of their sexual identity, because it feels like one who can' t
1:01:31
get close to someone. I think there are mistakes that we have to rule
1:01:36
them out of our lives. And I' m telling you, especially the
1:01:37
parents. When a son announces you, especially to Christian parents, he announces
1:01:40
that he is homosexual or that he has an attraction for men or a girl
1:01:44
for women. The tragedy is not that he announces that he has that attraction.
1:01:49
The tragedy is that he is placing his identity in what he feels and
1:01:52
not in the word. So, when you understand that that way, you
1:01:54
realize that your son may have been born in the Church, but it doesn
1:02:00
' t mean that he was born a Christian. He needs an encounter,
1:02:01
and only an encounter with God, which will propel him to surrender every identity
1:02:06
to divide into the real identity of the word. So, when we understand
1:02:09
this that way, we know that the problem is not sexual, but that
1:02:14
' s where you put the focus. That is, that is Jesus,
1:02:16
when Jesus remembers, when Jesus begins his public ministry. But besides, there
1:02:22
are so many scriptures that speak of this, of the mouth of Jesus and
1:02:28
of the apostles. The time has come to pass, the Kingdom of God,
1:02:31
has approached repentantly and believe in the Gospel to the whole world, to
1:02:37
the whole world and I told you when Jesus said that they judged him because
1:02:42
he was a friend of tax collectors and sinners, of course what is the
1:02:49
stratified society of that time and another model, another social paradigm, of course,
1:02:58
they judged him because he was comuloni to see, because he ate publicans,
1:03:01
that they were the discarded, the collaborators with the Roman invader and that
1:03:07
were therefore, hated by the good ones in Chchens looks very well the image
1:03:13
of mateo that interprets it very well, not anymore in the form of asper
1:03:16
that it was also, it is curiously, but it is very well done.
1:03:17
This series isn' t very pretty. But really, when Jesus I
1:03:22
have said, meets publicans and sinners, sinners, we are all, after
1:03:28
all, all. But it was, like a scornful word, with the
1:03:34
class, with the marginalized in society, the whores, the prostitutes, and
1:03:38
but there were the feminized, the whores, not feminized, the whores,
1:03:45
the eunuchs and the ephebes who were marginalized also and were considered sinners. And
1:03:54
Jesus among the sinners of all those who were socially marginalized, Jesus was with
1:04:02
them exactly and how Jesus was. With a bad face he was saying getting
1:04:09
in the sun. Jesus loved them all, loved anyone who approached him,
1:04:13
but Jesus loved them with a beautiful look, with a sword. He preached
1:04:19
to him the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom the word of the Kingdom.
1:04:23
His word was the one that pierced the hearts exactly and it was the one
1:04:28
that touched my soul to the depths and I realized my moral state. No,
1:04:35
and I, on my own initiative, saw myself in a mirror and
1:04:40
said I' m dirty. I need you to clean me up. Only
1:04:43
you can do it. And so it happened. And that' s where
1:04:46
we have to bring people, that is, an encounter with him, his
1:04:49
presence, his love. Then the person because of feeling more committed that you
1:04:54
need a clear encounter. Therefore, notice inexplicable formation for pastors, li leaders
1:04:59
and evangelists and also presentation of your book. Inexplicable that there is a lot
1:05:05
of raw material that can be here also on Amazon and on the screen.
1:05:10
Those who are on Facebook like are now able to see it. It will
1:05:14
be this Sunday 23rd of June, here in Barcelona, at seven o'
1:05:17
clock in the afternoon, but to reserve the square and know as who is
1:05:26
interested, that in this case they are pastors, front- line leaders,
1:05:30
elders or pastors people who are some psychologists who want to collaborate in this to
1:05:38
help evangelists, people who also have relations with many people, even leaders of
1:05:44
group formation groups, since they can be this Sunday 23rd of June at seven
1:05:50
o' clock in Barcelona, in the center of Barcelona, precisely, but
1:05:56
to make the square book, they have to call six fifty- eight pardons,
1:06:02
not rectific. Six hundred and fifty- two, seventy- eight,
1:06:08
seventy- eight, seventy- six. You mean take note of whatsapp to
1:06:13
send an audio, send a message. Six hundred fifty- two, seventy
1:06:16
- eight, seventy- eight seventy- six. There you go. I
1:06:20
am such a guy, I am of this Church, of this Christian collective
1:06:26
and I want to represent this and I want to be with Carlos and receive
1:06:35
that workshop that time, from seven o' clock in the afternoon. I
1:06:38
guess until later, if there wasn' t going to be a question space,
1:06:42
that' s the best part about the question and answers from the channel,
1:06:45
we took about two hours, two hours to total, because there we
1:06:49
expose everything, because remember workshop for all those interested in this topic. Pastors
1:06:57
of front- line leaders to counselors, trainers, leaders, groups, evangelists,
1:07:03
psychologists, Christians who want to reserve their place through the Whatsapp. Six
1:07:10
hundred and fifty- two, seventy- eight, seventy- eight, seventy
1:07:14
- six have to say who they are, where they come from and they
1:07:18
are evident to be that type, for that is for exact informants. It
1:07:21
' s not a thing for everyone, because it' s not the case.
1:07:25
It is for those who can also note that they need tools. Saying
1:07:30
hears exactly. People need help and ask us and we want to evangelize how
1:07:34
to connect, how to help the one within the Church by fighting as what
1:07:39
position to take before the one who twists the word, how to speak again
1:07:42
about all that we will be talking about and that same thing online. Now
1:07:45
you' re going to start an online course. No yes, in fact,
1:07:47
what is going to be on Sunday is two hours, but there is
1:07:51
an online training that you just launched yesterday, after months of work, of
1:07:55
editing, of videos, of editing, and it is a formation of ten
1:07:59
hours, almost eleven hours, where I expose everything. There I speak of
1:08:02
sexuality, the new sexuality in the spirit, when the renewal of the mind,
1:08:08
evangelization, examples of evangelization have finally been believed. What to do when
1:08:12
they tell you this, what to ask, what to answer, how to
1:08:15
discern the person' s position to see how to speak, how to be
1:08:20
effective in advice for leaders. What to do if this interview good, there
1:08:24
I give all advice for parents. There I saw everything I had, which
1:08:28
is a formation I have been giving over the last two years to more than
1:08:30
three zero leaders already at the level of different countries. Compilet in this training
1:08:34
is available online on the hotmart platform Looking for inexplicable training. Carlos cathari Or
1:08:42
in my Instagram account Cathric Carlos a pardon, arroba catari Carlos there is in
1:08:46
the biography. I' ll also apply it on Facebook. Yes and you
1:08:50
loved that in all these years, more than fourteen zero people, more than
1:08:55
fourteen zero people have written to me in private asking for help, telling me
1:09:00
Carlos, I am in the same position that you were in. I fight
1:09:01
with these attraction I don' t want them and I don' t know
1:09:03
what to do. I' m looking to change, I can' t
1:09:06
look to accept myself either what I do. And for that reason if you
1:09:09
' re going to do training, because I' m not going to do
1:09:11
enough. And on the other hand, there is an etziporus also that I
1:09:13
like very much, which is that to date, more than 300 people I
1:09:16
have testimony, more than three hundred twenty people who have experienced a transformation in
1:09:20
their sexual orientation. Because of abandoning the idol and believing the truth is that
1:09:26
it is infallible. If it is taken as it should be taken and understood
1:09:30
and assimilated and internalized as the word teaches us, the effect is a total
1:09:36
supernatural effect. My Roman life eight or six. I think it says so.
1:09:41
The mind set on the flesh is death. The mind placed in the
1:09:44
spirit is life and life. And the problem is not the flesh is neither
1:09:46
is the spirit where you put the. Mind. There' s the key.
1:09:50
Yeah, that' s interesting, listen, Carlos, how many things.
1:09:56
I imagine that all these years and why you could have said well,
1:10:00
I have come out of this life that I realized was not my true identity.
1:10:06
I felt concerned when I heard the word. I had a problem.
1:10:11
I realized that also through religion, I could not discover the grace of God.
1:10:16
That' s what he comes to say. And now I live in
1:10:19
the new life. I even found a woman I loved and loved and now
1:10:24
we' re getting married, but we have family and I live my life
1:10:29
in peace. And this and that, why you want to help people,
1:10:32
because I understand what many are living. I spent years looking for help,
1:10:40
looking for testimony and looking for a lot and finding where I said good.
1:10:44
I used to be gay and now I' m straight. Glory to God
1:10:45
and I said so. But what do you do with temptation, what do
1:10:48
you do with what you feel, what do you do with thoughts, with
1:10:51
memories, what do you do when the sensations invade you, what do you
1:10:57
do with this because it says the word that I wanted more and found nothing
1:11:00
trap It was based on effort. And when I had my encounter with God
1:11:02
that he transforms me, he himself tells me now I' m going to
1:11:06
tell everyone what God did for you And well, here they have happened,
1:11:10
already, here I go is how the win- win doesn' t believe
1:11:14
him. Jesus makes a miraculous transformation, but miraculous is the unexplained transformation.
1:11:17
It is explicable, yes, and it said humanely for intellectuals. Unexplainable,
1:11:24
exact because it has no human explanation, but explainable from the point of view
1:11:29
of living faith in God and of course, someone wanted to be with baby
1:11:33
jeufe to yours, to Hecapolis and tell them all about all these great things
1:11:39
that the Lord has done with you, but I have a question. The
1:11:46
language and this maybe you' ll agree with me. I believe that evangelical
1:11:51
believers in general, there are many people who know how to have the right
1:11:58
attitude and language, no, but I think we have h but others unconsciously
1:12:03
do not want to be jealous to say hey I go if it is the
1:12:10
issue of homosexuality or transsexuality, that that is already another problem that we cannot
1:12:14
address, that this one does have friend. We have already said something about
1:12:16
slant, but I really believe that we believers must speak in a good way
1:12:27
of these things totally. We should not unconsciously be jealous or angry, because
1:12:33
there are manipulations of the public authorities and of the total lob to implant,
1:12:42
colonize this, this was, we are not fools, come on, that
1:12:45
looks, but shamelessly. But our answer has to be, in addition to
1:12:50
intelligent, kind and correct. It does not have to be violent or aggressive,
1:12:54
because it is not appropriate for us to be taken to prison for persecution
1:12:58
against the Gospel, but not because we do not know exactly. Yes,
1:13:00
sir, well said. I think we need to be careful about that and
1:13:06
talk about how we talked here. It' s not that they' re
1:13:10
incompromising to put their convictions into it. It means this is like when you
1:13:14
say I am inoffensible, because before anything tasted bad to me, I was
1:13:20
very susceptible to being angry. No, but Jesus has also been generating in
1:13:26
my heart an unspeakable spirit for and that is a symptom of love. Love
1:13:32
makes you inoffensible because you see people with other eyes and love people in general.
1:13:41
It is Jesus in us that we have received God' s love for
1:13:46
the spirit that has been poured into our hearts. And that love is an
1:13:50
unstoppable force. Look at that. I' ll tell you. Fifty-
1:13:54
two years later, I feel more excited and look that my conversion was a
1:14:00
total fury, It was in my context of an army of people who came
1:14:05
to Mr After, friends, family and well, well, a lot of
1:14:12
people. The thing is, the emotion of living Jesus, of living in
1:14:16
his grace. But when we address any issue like this, let' s
1:14:23
be as careful as we need to be and which and we can talk about
1:14:29
what we need to talk about. Nothing else would be missing yet. Democracy
1:14:30
is in place, but let us be respectful and correct. Yet, and,
1:14:34
if I may, many people with this subject speak of sin, sin,
1:14:39
when the true good news is what Jesus did with sin. That is
1:14:43
where we need to focus on that message of reconciliation. God was in Christ
1:14:46
reconciling the world to himself, not taking into account men' s sins.
1:14:50
It' s a very strong message. It would look like super grace,
1:14:54
but the truth is that grace always leads to transformation. Yes, yes,
1:14:57
it is, friend, because Carlos taste and remember this for the last time
1:15:01
to everyone who wants to take advantage of this workshop in Barcelona, the presentation
1:15:06
not only of his book, but of this workshop of questions and answers about
1:15:12
the topic, a session of a couple of hours this 23rd of June Sunday
1:15:16
in the city of Barcelona. Take advantage of those we have at carlos around
1:15:20
here at 19 hours for pastors, front- line leaders, evangelists, counselors,
1:15:30
psychologists who also want to talk about this, with this tone and with
1:15:34
this tarannat as Christian as there is. And then, for that they have
1:15:41
to write to reserve place, clearly identify who they are, where they come
1:15:47
from and so on. To the Waxat at six hundred fifty- two,
1:15:53
seventy- eight seventy- eight seventy- six, I repeat the Waxapp six
1:15:59
hundred fifty- two, seventy- two and eight hundred seventy- eight seventy
1:16:02
- six in the city of Barcelona. In the same city. There you
1:16:05
will have this Sunday 23rd of June, at 7 pm, this meeting,
1:16:10
this mini workshop, this with talk colloquium and the inexplicable book, which can
1:16:15
also be acquired by any of you through the Amazon platform. Carlos. Thank
1:16:20
you, infinite, uh, thank you, thank you, thank you for
1:16:24
inviting yourself from opportunity and truth, that I am very happy already the other
1:16:28
times that we have spoken and always, for it really is your naturalness,
1:16:38
your authenticity, no and I say it sincerely and your commitment, because also
1:16:43
with the desire to help people who have the one who says no, I
1:16:46
feel well like this and so. Okay. Well, it' s your
1:16:48
choice. Of course, we have nothing to say here. Here we don
1:16:53
' t go to people hear it has to be changed, because I want
1:16:57
you to be like I think you have to be It doesn' t mean
1:17:00
that whoever asks for help and someone offers it to them because there is a
1:17:06
crisis that there is someone here who does and is carlos taste Amen, for
1:17:11
even forever, friend, until the next, until the next or pre on
1:17:50
the train of life life, I slept, but my heart was watching and
1:17:56
I heard a voice. My beloved was at the door my beloved sister,
1:18:00
my precious dove. Let me in. My head is soaked in dew.
1:18:06
The humidity of the night runs through my hair. I' ve already taken
1:18:12
off my clothes, how to get dressed again. I' ve already washed
1:18:15
my feet like on their hills. Again, my beloved passed his hand through
1:18:20
the opening of the hill. My bowels shook. As I felt it,
1:18:28
I got up and opened it to my beloved. Drops of me would run
1:18:30
through my hands, slide between my fingers and fall over the dice, open
1:18:36
it to my beloved, but I was no longer there. He knew how
1:18:43
to leave and after his voice my soul went. I looked it up and
1:18:45
I didn' t find it. I called him and he didn' t
1:18:49
answer me. Mmmmmmmmmmm. If you were to call another tipper like the last
1:19:27
time I' m not the same anymore. If you call another fool,
1:19:34
it makes you safe and tired. You want to be yours, I'
1:19:47
d open the door to you without hesitation. I wouldn' t do it
1:19:50
to you. I wait I have no strength and call again how smart I
1:20:04
am, it touches my heart again, that shivering garden that withers away.
1:20:14
If you' re there and you call again that ready I want to hear
1:20:23
your sweet being a secret between the two of you, the intimacy of between
1:20:48
uncles together without using others I partner to distance would be my daily bread.
1:21:00
If you got another one from up to my door. You wouldn' t
1:21:09
have to wait for an answer or I' d skip my heart for your
1:21:16
presence. I wouldn' t make you wait. I don' t have
1:21:27
a force. I don' t know I don' t know I don
1:21:40
' t know I don' t know. If you' re there,
1:21:44
call me today that I' m snooping I want to hear your beeings,
1:21:54
be the secret between the two of you life in between. Your gone today
1:21:58
to call how clever I am, my heart returns to your face that garden
1:22:05
of intin mida that is wilted and ours. Today to call you smart to
1:22:15
listen to your sweet zero secret between two black shy depre ion you call again.
1:22:57
Mr Newton' s First Law, if on a body no force acts,
1:23:03
it tends to maintain its state of rest or movement. If your child
1:23:06
gets fired from the car because you haven' t properly put in the child
1:23:11
restraint system. Leave everything behind. He leaves behind his favorite toy. Leave
1:23:15
the chocolate biscuits behind, leave your kiss of good night behind. It leaves
1:23:20
you behind. Don' t play with the kids. By your side we
1:23:25
all go, General Traffic Directorate, Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain.
1:23:29
Never leave me alone in the bathtub or places with water. Don'
1:23:32
t let them emit luis fingers and a hinchufi. Don' t leave me
1:23:35
at the age of an open window. I' d tell you within reach
1:23:41
of tosic substances or a thousand roads. You don' t let me swallow
1:23:44
the small pieces of toys. If you neglect your eyes, you can be
1:23:47
dangerous to your children. Don' t neglect to avoid accidents. For what
1:23:50
you want most Ministry of Health and Consumer Affairs, Government of Spain, you
1:24:02
travel on the train of life. Or, ladies and gentlemen, we come
1:24:25
to the colors of life and a color that is so human, not so
1:24:29
much of all mortals and already from the earliest childhood, are jealousy, the
1:24:36
envy that are cousins brothers. It seems the same, but it' s
1:24:42
not exactly the same, it' s almost the same, but jealousy between
1:24:46
brothers and at different ages. This is today' s particularity. Where jealousy
1:24:53
between the brothers originates. So, to you suddenly well, they actually originate
1:24:58
in our minds, in the minds of our children, of our brothers.
1:25:01
It originates in there and because it originates in the mind by the interpretation that
1:25:08
is sometimes correct or sometimes incorrect. Of a certain circumstance, that is,
1:25:13
when the interpretation is correct, when my parents are truly exercising a fatherhood between
1:25:17
me and my brother, unjust, of injustice, that one receives more than
1:25:24
another, that one is given more possibilities, more privileges than another, that
1:25:30
is, jealousy appears in our minds. When the interpretation is correct. We
1:25:34
are experiencing concrete circumstances that make them correctly interpret that that is unjust and,
1:25:41
therefore, make us feel and develop a feeling of jealousy or not, Or
1:25:45
sometimes it is because we are misinterpreting. I have some dads and I saw
1:25:49
a mom and a little wonderful that are fair to us more than any judge
1:25:54
could do. And at the same time I feel equally jealous because I believe
1:25:59
that there is also injustice after being a correct or sometimes mistaken interpretation of certain
1:26:03
circumstances. That' s where it originates in our children' s minds.
1:26:08
Then we feel or our children feel that way because they perceive in some way
1:26:13
that they have lost exclusivity at home and in the face of that fear.
1:26:18
The problem of exprisility is not exclusivity in itself, but they are afraid that
1:26:20
this will mean a number of things. For example, the feeling of loss.
1:26:27
I' ll lose my parents, and my little brother will be taken
1:26:29
away, or my older brother takes away all the flowers. The feeling of
1:26:32
being replaced. This little new boy will replace me or I' ll abandon
1:26:38
you my parents. If they had to choose between us. They would always
1:26:41
choose my brother or sister a feeling of rejection. My parents love my brother
1:26:45
or more my sister than me, a feeling of a vision of inadequacy that
1:26:47
I am not enough, not that pleased, enough. I haven' t
1:26:54
reached the level they were waiting for to be loved like my brother or my
1:26:57
sister before. That' s the problem, one of the main problems of
1:27:00
jealousy that it is contain all those fears that have to do with the feeling
1:27:03
of loss, of that exclusivity, of that unique place that I have at
1:27:08
home and that when a brother comes, I have the feeling of those who
1:27:11
appear. In addition to this perception, it may be grounded, as we
1:27:15
have said in circumstances and explicit behaviors that are true or not, or in
1:27:19
a distorted self- image, that is, that the child has a bad
1:27:23
image of himself or a misinterpretation of the behaviors they are carrying out and,
1:27:27
therefore, he tends to compare himself and always live happiness through comparison and being
1:27:30
better than, because that has to do with the malfunction of the child'
1:27:34
s self- image, comparing himself and being better than to be able to
1:27:39
get the affection of my parents. Then that compendium makes all this develop.
1:27:46
This feeling of jealousy and, therefore, indicates to us whenever we see these
1:27:50
jealousy or this feeling that originates our mind, as long as we have it
1:27:55
or detect it in our children. It means that it is a long time
1:28:01
the feeling alarms us, it detects us that there is some conflict in my
1:28:05
mind actually, or a conflict, as we said, of the distorted image,
1:28:09
that is, only through competition and to improve and be better than my
1:28:12
brother, or the feeling of never could be better than my brother. Therefore,
1:28:14
you do not need to fight a distorted image or not. Or those
1:28:18
feelings that indicate that, as parents, we are wrongly exercising parenthood, that
1:28:23
it is not a problem of our child' s mind as it is interpreting
1:28:26
more, but that we are being unfair and having a favoritism or certain behaviors
1:28:30
that we will see later, that indicate to us or that indicate to my
1:28:35
son that yes, that we love one more than another. The truth is,
1:28:40
it' s already a very interesting exit description. There are brothers who
1:28:44
do not have or have ever been jealous of each other, for they are
1:28:47
not. Actually, if we are very, very honest, we should answer
1:28:51
that not what does exist and we will see why they would say bu because
1:28:56
I have never been jealous of my brother or brother has never been jealous of
1:28:59
me. And well, what exists are brothers who have felt jealous, that
1:29:02
is, that feeling is alarm. They appear, but have managed internally and
1:29:11
has been fleeting. And those feelings have been fleeting because we have managed them
1:29:15
properly within our mind. And they have also been able to do so because
1:29:21
their parents, for example, have helped them. Or they have also managed
1:29:25
the education between both brothers or all the brothers, that is, the brothers
1:29:29
who do not demonstrate in a physical way, they do not see their behaviors,
1:29:33
because the feelings remember that we can only detect them in others in the
1:29:38
form of behavior. If I see someone crying, I will know or be
1:29:41
able to detect that they either feel anger or sadness. But if I don
1:29:45
' t see him crying or I see him smiling, I won' t
1:29:47
know that that feeling is in there, because that happens with jealousy, just
1:29:50
like any other feeling. So what happens is that those jealousys appear in our
1:29:56
lives. That feeling appears, I can read the series of thoughts and then
1:29:59
I learn them to gestio onar internally, that is, I learn to interpret
1:30:03
properly that I, who am living or my parents help me interpret it properly,
1:30:09
so those jealous behaviors do not appear. In this way, what we
1:30:14
can say is that the philosopher’ s stone to avoid jealousy is to know
1:30:19
that it is natural, that it is natural that those feelings sometimes come into
1:30:24
our minds. It is normal and what we should do is work as parents
1:30:28
to help our children disconnect the true origin that has connected that feeling, which
1:30:33
has made that feeling appear and work with them mentally. Then children have to
1:30:39
learn to work mentally and manage those feelings, and they can only learn them
1:30:43
and we teach them and help them, so that the parents who work jealousy
1:30:46
the most, teaching, helping the child to correctly process that feeling and understanding
1:30:54
that there is a series of detertaments such as he would be abandoned, being
1:30:57
rejected, loving me less that they are lies, san saber s NS.
1:31:00
In doing this, those jealous behaviors will not appear. That' s a
1:31:04
probability. The other is that jealous behaviors do not appear because we hide them
1:31:08
and because my family is a very bad thing. But that doesn' t
1:31:10
mean there' s no jealousy, but we hide them. Sure. Of
1:31:13
course, but I say before the birth, for example, the birth or
1:31:17
adoption of a new child, what our eldest child needs in this case,
1:31:24
because the first thing we have to take into account is based on this which
1:31:27
we have just explained that jealousy occurs naturally, that is, it is logical
1:31:30
to give. We cannot avoid them, that is, jealousy is natural and
1:31:34
logical and they appear as we have said others, on the occasion when I
1:31:40
feel that a new person is, for example, as you said, the
1:31:44
birth of a new child, because it supposes I will spend more time with
1:31:47
the new child, because he is a baby. I need to take care
1:31:49
of it. If I have to give her mom, they spend a lot
1:31:51
of time with mom. Dad will also have to hold him for a long
1:31:56
time, because he doesn' t walk all these things. If I want
1:31:59
to develop a good orth, I stick with my new born child. If
1:32:00
I want to develop a good attachment, it means that I will have to
1:32:03
be, take it, embrace it, be with it, attend to its
1:32:08
needs. And the needs of when we are babies are greater in terms of
1:32:11
physical contact and being on top of them than when children are older, so
1:32:15
that our child, it is inevitable that you think or are. When this
1:32:19
little thing wasn' t around, my parents were after me and now they
1:32:23
' re not that much for me anymore. Not that they' re not
1:32:25
here, but that they' re not so much for me. Or you
1:32:27
see children who are more extremist think they no longer attend to me, they
1:32:30
are no longer with me. I remember then that' s natural for them
1:32:34
to appear and it' s logical for that feeling to appear, knowing that
1:32:39
the most normal thing is for the feeling to appear. We can do a
1:32:40
number of things. The best way to deal with these jealousy, these feelings
1:32:44
and, therefore, overcome them, that is, to disconnect them without major
1:32:48
complications, is to verbalize it, that is, those fears or those incorrect
1:32:54
assumptions. They won' t listen to me anymore, they' ve replaced
1:32:58
me with moms, my little brother, because they' re with him longer.
1:33:00
All that we should do as parents, knowing what is to come and
1:33:01
that it may be that those thoughts are there and that if we see small
1:33:05
behaviors that can indicate those thoughts, we should verbalize them, take them to
1:33:13
the area of verbalizing or expressing ourselves, bring them to light and we should
1:33:16
be able to tell our son, we should be able to sit down,
1:33:20
even if he has two three years with our son, he says what is
1:33:24
wrong with you, what you feel. So, what do you think the
1:33:25
dad goes more to the baby because he' s more with him. What
1:33:27
do you think the lady wants to be with the baby more than with you,
1:33:30
because it gives her a lot of time to suck. Then explain the
1:33:32
reality, explain to him that not that it is not that we love him
1:33:35
more, is that he has a number of needs. Show him photographs that
1:33:41
I show that we' ve already done this to him. What happens is
1:33:43
that now he doesn' t remember it, because it was very doubtful that
1:33:45
we' ve done the same thing with him that he needs, that this
1:33:50
little boy needs, but that doesn' t mean that he' s going
1:33:53
to run out of dad and mom, but that we, like dads and
1:33:56
like nothing else, also feel very good when we play with him, when
1:33:59
we' re with him, just that he needs less to have him than
1:34:03
to take him and, for example, take him in arms all the time,
1:34:04
because he knows how to walk. So, holding him alone by the
1:34:06
hand is enough. We don' t need to carry him in our arms
1:34:12
and that the young child who was born also indicate a day that we no
1:34:15
longer need to carry him in our arms all the time, but that he
1:34:18
may have taken hold of our hand, that is, help him verbalize those
1:34:21
fears and make him understand that it is temporary, that this process is temporary,
1:34:25
that he too has had it, that we are not giving anything to
1:34:28
this baby, that he has not had before. Therefore, that we are
1:34:28
being righteous with him and that spending time with the baby does not indicate that
1:34:31
we love him more, but that he has greater needs. I remember.
1:34:36
Another major axis to work is the direct involvement of the older brother in the
1:34:42
care of the newborn. If when a young child is born we integrate the
1:34:46
older brother into the brother who was already the caregiver of the newborn. We
1:34:50
let him touch it we ask him, to help us when he has to
1:34:55
put tremite, we let him put a little, We let him put one
1:34:58
of the strips of the bath or bring us to the best the colony to
1:35:01
be able to put it or to comb it carefully with the combs of soft
1:35:09
pulsation that there is or that he chooses us ropita that he would like to
1:35:13
put the child. That is to involve him in the care of the newborn,
1:35:15
if he takes viberon, that he can bring the mother one of the
1:35:19
vibrons or bring the water when necessary, or that he sits with us next
1:35:24
to him while we breastfeed him, while he sees how we breastfeed him,
1:35:27
putting a number of conditions. Remember that children always need a series of conditions,
1:35:31
it is a series of limits. So, well, you can stay
1:35:33
here. If you' re going to be quiet and if you' re
1:35:36
not going to touch the baby who' s now focused on eating mom,
1:35:40
she' d love for you to sit next to her. So that'
1:35:42
s a way to involve the older brother in newborn care. By involving him,
1:35:45
it feels that the newborn is not something that removes him and expels him
1:35:48
outside, but that it involves him even more in family life. So,
1:35:53
this will help you to understand that it' s not that we no longer
1:35:56
love him and that we don' t want him around, but all we
1:36:00
want to have him around and that' s why we involve him. I
1:36:01
remember. Another form is strength, strengthening the idea that growing and becoming great
1:36:06
is what we want to happen to the newborn, not just him. I
1:36:13
mean, we don' t want our baby to stay the rest of his
1:36:16
life for the next forty years being a baby. What we want is for
1:36:19
him to grow up and for him to grow we need to do this just
1:36:24
like we did with him, so strengthening that idea that growing is good,
1:36:28
that growing is healthy that developing, healthy that generating and that learning to do
1:36:31
things he and being able to do things right is just a good thing he
1:36:35
comes out and that we expect from him and that we also expect from little
1:36:39
knotty, only that he has done it before and the little one will take
1:36:42
a little longer to do it. Remembering to strengthen that idea will also help
1:36:45
a lot with jealousy and then dedicate a time of attention to the older brother,
1:36:50
a time only exclusive to him, in which we can go out with
1:36:54
him to walk alone. So, sometimes what we have to do is divide
1:36:56
the time. If Dad' s with the baby, Mom' s hanging
1:36:59
out with him, the big brother. If Mom' s with the Baby,
1:37:01
and she' s going to have to go through with the older brother,
1:37:04
the good thing is that we' re doing it in a capriculated way,
1:37:08
that is, one and the other, and not as long as the
1:37:11
dad does, because if we feel like a mother' s quitting all right.
1:37:12
I know that in the case of moms it' s harder, because
1:37:14
if mom' s love will be harder. But to take that time to
1:37:17
walk with him, of course, then, when our children share childhood and
1:37:23
pre- adolescence, what they will need in this case to properly manage the
1:37:30
feelings of jealousy that may appear, for when we are in childhood, especially
1:37:35
second childhood, when we are talking about five or six, seven or eight
1:37:41
years later pre- adolescence, ten, eleven twelve, when we are in
1:37:44
that period that that childhood and pre- adolescence, we need to do something
1:37:47
to make jealousy disappear and there are or seem not to appear. The first
1:37:48
thing is to highlight the strengths and peculiarities of each of my children fairly,
1:37:55
that is, fairly. If I highlight one' s UEN points, I
1:38:00
have to be able to highlight them from the others. That doesn' t
1:38:01
mean or I' m not saying that every time I tell my oldest son
1:38:05
that he' s done something right immediately I have to look in that very
1:38:10
instant for something that my little son has done right. No. We'
1:38:12
re not talking about this. We' re talking that if during the day
1:38:15
I have highlighted a point or two strengths of my eldest son, I also
1:38:19
need to highlight two strengths of my young son. Okay, not at the
1:38:23
same time, but during the day, if I am able to highlight the
1:38:27
strengths. On the peculiarities, the things that differentiate them as something good in
1:38:31
each of them. This will help me with jealousy. This is the first
1:38:33
thing. The second time they fight, for example. For example, if
1:38:39
it' s a game, it' s best to remove the game they
1:38:42
' re fighting for anyway give it for ten minutes after saving it for ten
1:38:46
minutes, we' ll return it. We' ll tell them if they
1:38:48
fight again and we' ll take it back. If that happens a third
1:38:51
time, we warn you in the second time it happens again. They don
1:38:55
' t know or don' t learn to play together. What we'
1:38:58
re gonna do is we' re gonna take that game off for the whole
1:39:00
day or today and we' re gonna give it back to you tomorrow.
1:39:01
This is a way to make them understand that they have to learn how to
1:39:05
play together and do it properly, if not whoever starts and who gets angry
1:39:10
with each other. This will imply if we don' t know how to
1:39:14
solve it that we' re going to take that game away from them and,
1:39:16
therefore, they' re going to lose that chance of playing with it.
1:39:17
We do this because by removing that game we remove part of the conflict
1:39:20
and then they can solve that situation. Now, if we know who started
1:39:25
the lawsuit, that is, we actually see that one has hit the other
1:39:29
or stretched the other' s hair or taken away from a toy and hasn
1:39:32
' t asked for it. Then we' ll have to catch that brother,
1:39:36
whether he' s the oldest or the little one, take him away
1:39:40
and talk to theirs, that is, clarify to him why he does that,
1:39:45
that that' s wrong, and that we care that he does it
1:39:45
only with his brother. We care that what you' re doing is bad,
1:39:48
not just for your brothers, but for any other child you' re
1:39:51
doing it with and the consequences that that' s going to bring you that
1:39:55
other kids want to play with. If he behaves that way, put him
1:39:59
in the position of ns his brother or another. For example, if the
1:40:00
little brother has taken a toy from the younger brother, well, don'
1:40:04
t misunderstand the other way and the little brother has taken a toy from him
1:40:06
in the older hand. Being able to say it when we take away toys
1:40:10
from you, you like it, it makes you feel good or it makes
1:40:12
you feel bad you feel angry. That' s what you' re doing
1:40:15
with your brother. Then, after I' ve finished him off, put
1:40:16
some conditions on him. If you repeat this again, you' ll be
1:40:20
there for a while Without playing with your brother, the children, the jealousy,
1:40:25
it doesn' t make the brothers among them, they don' t
1:40:26
want to play together. Jealousy, what they indicate is a problem with parents.
1:40:29
My brother takes my parents away from me, but not a problem with
1:40:31
being together. That happens many times in other people’ s homes where brothers
1:40:34
play together perfectly. Well, the school plays perfectly by the time they get
1:40:39
home, jealousy shows up. This shows that the problem is not in the
1:40:42
relationship between the two, but in how we relate to the older brother or
1:40:45
to the younger brother. Another way is, when one hits the other,
1:40:50
we' ll have to pull them apart, ask them what happened separately and
1:40:58
ask the one who hit, either to r to n one or they'
1:41:00
ve stuck two, separate them for at least fifteen minutes and not allow them
1:41:04
to play and if that happens again, you won' t let them play
1:41:10
together that afternoon and let them understand what that means and put a number of
1:41:13
rules at home. Then, normally, when there is jealousy between the brothers.
1:41:15
The best ways to put standards that are called normace between brothers, and
1:41:18
it is in the fridge of home, in the dining room, somewhere where
1:41:21
you see setting between three and five norms no more than are in hand.
1:41:26
For example, we can' t stick together we' ll always talk without
1:41:31
yelling at TV one. First you choose one program and then you choose the
1:41:35
other program a set of small basic rules, three, I say three between
1:41:40
trainta and five that will help that if you buy those rules, there will
1:41:43
be pariety, there will be justice between one brother and the other. And
1:41:46
then, something that is very funny and that can work very well, especially
1:41:49
when children are younger, is to generate what we call our collage or the
1:41:54
collage of brothers. It' s about taking a session of pictures at home,
1:41:59
fun with two outra camera or even with your mobile phone, making a
1:42:02
series of pictures where they have to always be together, doing nonsense, already
1:42:06
can be doing nonsense where it' s a hug playing with something, but
1:42:11
they always have to appear in the photo together. We will choose between ten
1:42:15
and twenty photos and of the ten twenty photos we will take them to print
1:42:18
or print them at home and make a collage that is called we will always
1:42:25
be brothers in that college What we seek is that the brothers realize that it
1:42:29
is better to be together and we have a better time together than separated or
1:42:31
angry. That also helps jealousy and, therefore, and as the last and
1:42:34
most important point, is to eliminate favoritism. We cannot give more privileges to
1:42:42
an older brother because he is the elder brother, because he is the first
1:42:46
- born, nor can we give him more privilege than a small one because
1:42:49
of the simple fact of being small or the simple fact of being a child.
1:42:53
Sometimes because of the simple fact of being a child. We' ve
1:42:56
already allowed the girl to take away the toys from the older brother from the
1:42:59
sea, but we don' t let the older hand be angry because it
1:43:01
' s older. That' s one way to show favoritism and it'
1:43:05
s wrong. We need to teach our little daughter that she can' t
1:43:11
take any toy from her hand, neither our son' s nor other children
1:43:14
' s. For example, if our little three- year- old daughter
1:43:16
did this in the park we would penalize those circumstances. Therefore, if our
1:43:20
eldest son does, we must also penalize him. And conversely, if our
1:43:25
older brother beats or pushes a child into the yard, even if he was
1:43:28
his age or a younger one, we would penalise him, because we should
1:43:32
still do it if he does it with his younger brother. So remember to
1:43:34
avoid favoritism. We can' t treat one better or give more privileges to
1:43:41
one than another or penalise another less even if he does the same things.
1:43:45
We must be in these just and equal and thus pass the first and second
1:43:49
childhood and pre- adolescence in a more balanced way and with less feelings of
1:43:55
jealousy. Well, I think all we have left is during adolescence and youth.
1:44:00
Jealousy seems to go unnoticed, but how do we definitely help our children
1:44:05
in these two stages already? If they continue to live without jealousy, if
1:44:13
they keep asking for jealousy in this case, if they continue to live jealousy
1:44:16
in adolescence and youth, it will be a little more complicated. It'
1:44:18
s true that they go unnoticed. It' s a reality. It costs
1:44:24
more to see jealousy in youth or adolescence. If they stay, no,
1:44:27
because we already know, but it' s harder to see them. One
1:44:30
of the things I love, as we always speak, the word of God.
1:44:33
He has much wisdom what Jesus of Nazareth said. He' s got
1:44:38
a lot of them. He lives a magnificent skillful, intelligent teacher with cunning
1:44:44
in teaching things with pedagogy. When it comes to teaching them, then I
1:44:48
' d like to take one of the words I explain to you to convey
1:44:50
this, which is what you said. P that of the prodigal son.
1:44:54
The prodigal son speaks of two to young people, almost adults, not to
1:44:57
say adults, but at least two young people, and explains how with great
1:45:01
clarity the main reason why in adolescence and youth these jealousies originate or are maintained.
1:45:09
The first thing that happens is that it depends on the personality of our
1:45:12
son, our daughter. We will have developed a kind of way to educate
1:45:15
him and, therefore, to relate to him. They to these personality traits
1:45:21
and this way of educating him makes that if our child, for example,
1:45:26
is introverted and therefore, the general pronorm is more reflexive. When you ask
1:45:31
us for something, you will do it with arguments, not impulsively and,
1:45:36
moreover, as a general rule, you will also have to listen to them
1:45:42
when we talk to him about what will provoke this personality that provokes, that
1:45:47
will make us less punishing with him, that we tend to penalize at least
1:45:51
because he explains things to us, they argue to us and he is willing
1:45:53
to listen to us. Therefore, in our relationship with our introverted and reflective
1:45:56
child, there will be fewer circumstances of him angry and, therefore, less
1:46:00
feeling of discomfort. But when our other son or our leaf there or our
1:46:06
other daughter are more impulsive and extroverted than our son, older, they make
1:46:12
them less reflective, so they will ask for things in a less reasoned,
1:46:15
more impulsive way. Therefore, we will think of them or tend to think
1:46:21
of our son or our extroverted and impulsive daughter, who is irresponsible. It
1:46:27
scares us and how it scares us. We will finish it more and sometimes
1:46:30
we will be even less suitable in penalties. We will tend to be more
1:46:34
punishing and more limiting, that is, our impulsive and extroverted son. We
1:46:39
' ll have to say no more times. This generates more situations than conflict
1:46:43
and, therefore, more feeling of discomfort with our son and daughter so that
1:46:46
the teenager can interpret some of these facts. You can interpret that we feel
1:46:55
better with our son, older than with him, and therefore that we prefer
1:46:59
our thoughtful and introverted older brother, who gives less problems than me, who
1:47:04
love me less, because I give more problems. This is what provokes jealousy,
1:47:12
a sense of injustice, and we should be able to explain to our
1:47:17
child that this is not the case, but that the only thing that causes
1:47:21
us to but to further improve their way of working or to limit it.
1:47:24
They are a series of fears that we anticipate and their way of asking for
1:47:28
things because they indicate irresponsibility or why they indicate irresponsibility, or why they ask
1:47:32
us for those things and what makes us think. But we need to verbalize
1:47:36
that the problem is not that we don' t love him. We love
1:47:39
him exactly the same, but there are things that must be penalized and they
1:47:44
are both for one and the other. Have one do it more or less.
1:47:46
It doesn' t mean that that' s not bad. Another focus
1:47:49
of conflict is that there are people with a more determined tendency than others,
1:47:56
as a feature of personality and for their experience, there are people who have
1:48:00
to tend to care more about pleasing others. And that makes us have more
1:48:04
teenagers or young people working at home. In a society where running is the
1:48:11
general tonic, sometimes what happens is that we don' t realize or repair
1:48:15
that our oldest son is working at one hundred percent and that our son honors
1:48:19
me is working at twenty- five percent, because he doesn' t need
1:48:23
to please so much because he' s not so hard on this that he
1:48:28
generates in our older brother, because it' s a feeling of injustice.
1:48:29
Of course, what happens is that the older brother feels that he is making
1:48:33
more effort than the younger one and that the younger one receives the same thing
1:48:36
as the older one. Therefore, in the sense of injustice, the account
1:48:40
of the prodigal son very clearly shows these feelings, this concrete feeling of the
1:48:45
son Gayor and the good of the parables that the Great Teacher Jesus told,
1:48:49
which said is that they always implied an answer, always took a solution.
1:48:54
Not that one not just given a parabola without giving a solution. And if
1:48:57
you think so, let' s read the last three, that is,
1:49:00
the passage to the final part of this story, this story, to understand
1:49:04
that the son who was at home was living. Turns out the prodigal son
1:49:08
consists of a son who wants to have his inheritance look at his dad tell
1:49:13
him dad give me the inheritance that I love her and leave home because I
1:49:16
don' t want to be home anymore. I want to do what he
1:49:17
wants without having a dad tell him what to do. She wants to go
1:49:20
away and spends everything on her inheritance, but she doesn' t spend it
1:49:24
comparing the house, pushing forward with the families who race her with the worst,
1:49:28
with words, with prostitution, with something, with drugs, etcetera,
1:49:30
etcetera. Sure, when this son comes home because he sees himself in absolute
1:49:33
misery without having to eat. When you see yourself in absolute misery, you
1:49:38
say at my father' s house, even the servants, even the people
1:49:43
who help in the house are better treated than I am. I' ve
1:49:45
lived better than I have. I' ll go back to my father'
1:49:46
s house and tell him to please treat me not like a son, because
1:49:50
I' ve been the worst. Since I am not worthy to be his
1:49:54
son, but unless he hires me, he hires me as someone who cleans
1:49:57
the house or takes care of the animals and comes back. What' s
1:50:00
going on? That when the dad comes back, he' s dad before
1:50:03
anything else, he' s dad more than just, he' s dad,
1:50:06
he loves the kid, and when I have to come back he finally
1:50:10
comes home. Now he has learned his lesson and throws a party and gives
1:50:14
him everything that happens. And that' s where we started reading. The
1:50:15
eldest son was in the field, says the parable and when he came and
1:50:19
came near the house, heard the music and dances and called one of the
1:50:23
servants, asked him that he was that and he told him your brother has
1:50:27
come home, has returned and your father has killed a fat calf and for
1:50:30
having received them, for having received them safe and sound, then he was
1:50:35
angry and did not want to enter. The eldest son suddenly got angry and
1:50:39
did not want to go in and went out to find them his father and
1:50:44
begged the pope to enter the eldest son at the party but the eldest son
1:50:47
answered. Here are so many years I have served you, never disobeying you
1:50:54
and you don' t change it, given not even any kid to be
1:51:00
able to enjoy or party with my friends. But when he came to your
1:51:02
son, this one who has consumed all your lives, everything that has put
1:51:05
him on, he has consumed it, he eats the blowout and without taking
1:51:11
into account goes and you throw him a party and then the dad gives him
1:51:15
the solution to say son, you have always been with me and all my
1:51:20
things have always been yours. That' s the solution And that' s
1:51:24
the solution that the great teacher has given when we see that a child is
1:51:27
very hard- working and that sometimes he complains or has feelings of jealousy and
1:51:31
has jealous behaviors rather than recriminating him, rather than telling him man, you
1:51:35
' re the one who does things. Well, now you' re having
1:51:36
these feelings. Don' t be a kid or don' t be a
1:51:40
kid before you do this. What you have to do is sit next to
1:51:42
him and tell him everything about me has always been yours. And I never
1:51:45
say no to you, because I know you' re responsible. I never
1:51:48
tell you what you have to do because you' re already going to do
1:51:50
it. And this comforts my heart and makes me feel like you' re
1:51:54
a good son and I love you for it. But that doesn' t
1:51:58
mean I don' t love your little brother too, even if I do
1:52:00
things wrong. I don' t accept what I do, what he does
1:52:03
for that I penalize and punish him, but that doesn' t mean he
1:52:08
doesn' t love him. I love him exactly the same. And the
1:52:10
day you stop doing things right and the day you, for some reason,
1:52:13
don' t want to do something right or don' t want to behave
1:52:16
yourself. I will continue to love you that reflection, which is the one
1:52:20
made by the son, the father, the eldest son, in this parable
1:52:25
of the prodigal son. This reflection is the reflection that we should give to
1:52:28
our young adults with Dad. Of course it' s telling him I remember.
1:52:31
It' s true he' s doing better, but that doesn'
1:52:34
t make me love him any more or less, I mean, not exactly
1:52:36
the same. And the day you can' t do that job, I
1:52:40
' ll still love you the same way. That will bring tranquility and pass
1:52:44
into the heart of the eldest son who is often playing that role because he
1:52:47
believes that if he does not, he will not have the love of his
1:52:50
parents. Sure, well, the truth is this is a lot. He
1:52:54
has given of his own, but he gives much of himself colus between brothers
1:52:59
and common how to deal with these situations and between brothers and sisters at different
1:53:05
ages, as I have addressed and I believe it has become more than clear,
1:53:11
well, dear ayudit Thank you very much for the abundant and clear and
1:53:17
very descriptive explanation of a subject as delicate as this. Thank you for being
1:53:21
there, for letting me lift you up in good weeks more. Thank you
1:53:26
very much, thank you always. Good hug, the man of life I
1:53:57
love with us the or, the name, the leave Jesus. It is
1:54:20
only possible for you to rescue the name I said Jesus n is amazing and
1:54:39
bring truth, the God, the God of rustling hears that it is that
1:54:48
worships him inspires you I give above all man riyas pate. Jesus that there
1:55:09
is no other name give man Jesus c are lord or c for give me
1:55:26
the square to Christ Jesus in we leap from a high ra in your man,
1:55:36
man of Jesus. He loves to be one of the dark ones and
1:55:49
the bottle of Jesus. Tunceola see me because as of God, I move
1:56:05
to death in the other one you do not do to sing for li sora
1:56:25
lenas so big that of lion man, the book and the ready to go
1:56:39
to men is subject to this not about or rhymes. So, I think
1:56:56
this came another given the men who are Lord or go like this. The
1:57:30
ra tiem you eat laugh, not ours very well or even the zero I
1:58:15
understand what egg, or or or or or or especially on the sras your
1:58:57
breath more pestilent. Thank you those lungs, blacker, thank you not your
1:59:04
twenty days less life, thank you the most damaged our smokers, thank you
1:59:14
the ruteras that surround you most affected, thank you, thank you for not
1:59:18
smoking Ministry of Health and I consume the train of life, an exciting journey
1:59:30
along the routes of the heart, an unforgettable trip at the pace of trem
1:59:56
Lords and gentlemen, we have Dr Luis Carballosa, in direct line, with
2:00:00
the train of life Genesis, the Book of Origins, a book with which
2:00:04
very few have dared. Well, that' s where we have it in
2:00:11
direct line gerballo, that is, when we talk about genesis. When we
2:00:14
talk about genesis, some speak of Genesis with a somewhat stupefied mind, because
2:00:20
it is a book that simplifies the basic stories of the beginnings of mankind.
2:00:27
No, but the first eleven chapters of genesis are one of the most interesting
2:00:33
to understand why of all things. But some have questioned them. They have
2:00:39
said that they are somewhat allegorical chapters and bibliographic simulations that what we can say
2:00:47
first of all. But when someone does not want to believe, he always
2:00:55
appeals to that kind of language and to that kind of rule. There is
2:01:02
nothing allegorical about the genesis, and honestly, without Genesis nothing could be understood
2:01:11
about the Bible, the foundation When you build a building, you have to
2:01:20
lay solid foundations. If you cannot build it on top, genesis is the
2:01:30
foundation of the rest of the Bible. Everything the rest of the Bible says
2:01:34
is credible and established, it is based on the book of Genesis. Genesis
2:01:44
begins with an emphatic, majestic, glorious way, saying in the beginning God
2:01:53
created the heavens and the earth. It never questions the existence of God.
2:02:00
And there' s the base. July, because if one believes in a
2:02:05
living, true omnipotent God, a God of purpose, a sovereign God has
2:02:15
no problem in understanding that the whole Universe is the product of his creative power.
2:02:23
He spoke the creation, how interesting God spoke and what he said was
2:02:30
done. Right. That' s right and not in a long process of
2:02:36
time. God spoke and instantly all things were done. In the Book of
2:02:45
Genesis in our Bible it says that God said be the light. That'
2:02:50
s a little soft way to put it. What the original text says is
2:02:56
that God gave a command. God told him I know as if someone tells
2:03:02
you Julio stand up or Julio comes out this door. Well, that'
2:03:10
s how God did it. God gave an order, God said light.
2:03:14
C and light was not through an evolutionary process of millions of years. Didn
2:03:21
' t God instantly do all things? Instantally what interesting carballosa? The story
2:03:33
of Good since Genesis, especially of the first three chapters, the story of
2:03:39
the creation of all things in a simunae way, with an explanation as usual,
2:03:45
Semitic, simplified, not, but very direct, very concrete. And
2:03:50
after the beginning of the first state of the human being and before the creation
2:03:58
of all things, and then the immediate fall of man by his disobedience,
2:04:01
of man and woman, understand his disobedience to God and from there history begins
2:04:06
to happen truth. Yes, God created man in holiness and righteousness, but
2:04:16
that holiness and justice had to be tested. God tested man, and God
2:04:26
did so tremendously. God placed in the center of the garden, God placed
2:04:35
the tree of life that represents the obe, represents communion, communion with God.
2:04:43
And in the very place of the center of the garden, God set
2:04:48
up a tree called knowledge, good, and evil. And that speaks of
2:04:54
obedience. Man, the human being, has a responsibility to obey God and
2:05:00
that is precisely what he did not do. God created man to worship and
2:05:06
obey him and to make man a kind of viceroy of God on earth.
2:05:16
And man needs to depend on God, and that is precisely what man did.
2:05:24
Man let himself be guided in this case says the scripture Eve was deceived,
2:05:31
but Adam deliberately disobeyed God. And that' s the thing. Adam,
2:05:40
the man, the responsible one that God had deliberately put into the orchard,
2:05:46
not by deception, but by an exercise of his will. That'
2:05:53
s called free will. Adam made use of his free will and what he
2:06:00
did was disobey God. Flee from God. He wanted to escape God,
2:06:06
and God had to go after him and ask Adam where Caramba is. From
2:06:15
there comes the moral catastrophe of man, man and carballous woman. Some ignore
2:06:26
that the history of patriarchs, in tents of patriarchs, including Abraham Moses and
2:06:31
the patriarchs of the twelve tribes, the patriarchs of faith from the origins of
2:06:36
the principles of biblical history are part of the real history of mankind. Or
2:06:45
it' s a fictional story, as some think. No. That'
2:06:48
s not part of the story. Everything that the Bible says July is real.
2:06:54
There is no mythology in the Bible. The orchard was a concrete place
2:07:00
where man had plenty of everything. Adam was the first man God created And
2:07:09
not only does the Book of Genesis say so, the rest of the Bible
2:07:14
says. The rest of the Bible says that the first man was Adam.
2:07:19
He was made a living being by God, a soul, a being,
2:07:27
a living person, and says the scripture that through that man' s disobedience
2:07:33
sin entered and through sin death, and death passed to all men. For
2:07:40
all sinned in Adam. God created all mankind tacitly implicitly in Adam were you
2:07:49
and I. And when Adam sinned you and I sinned. When Adam disobeyed
2:07:57
you and I disobeyed. The whole human race disobeyed and fell into Adam.
2:08:05
And Adam' s sin is our sin. We are sinners because we sin
2:08:13
when Adam sinned I sinned. When Adam disobeyed God, I disobeyed God.
2:08:18
That is what the Bible teaches and the characters in the Bible are not fictitious.
2:08:24
All these names are noted in history from the beginning, the children of
2:08:33
Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, those who follow him in chapter five,
2:08:37
All that list that appears there and then the humanity that was corrupted in
2:08:41
chapters six and seven of Genesis, by which God had to judge mankind by
2:08:48
means of a universal flood, not a small flood, but a flood that
2:08:54
covered all the earth. That is what the Book of Genesis tells us.
2:09:03
And that' s what it is. Therefore, as you rightly said,
2:09:07
dear Julius, the Book of Genesis is the book of principles, the beginning
2:09:11
of creation, the beginning of the universe, the beginning of history, the
2:09:18
beginning of time, the beginning of man, the beginning of human sin and
2:09:24
also the beginning of the plan of salvation, because with the fall of man,
2:09:30
God also presents a plan of salvation. And that plan of salvation is
2:09:37
by faith is by the grace of God so that the human being puts his
2:09:43
faith in the one living and true God so it is carballous. One of
2:09:50
the most exciting, most emotional stories of the Book of Genesis is the story
2:09:56
of Joseph and especially the story of Joseph' s reunion with his brothers and
2:10:03
Joseph' s pre- eminence in Egypt. That' s right. That
2:10:07
gives us to understand God’ s tremendous providence. Joseph' s brothers,
2:10:16
who were not good men, were evil boys, envied their own brother and
2:10:24
sold him to merchants to get rid of him because they envied him. But
2:10:33
they did not know that all this was the product of God' s plan,
2:10:37
it was the product of God' s hand. Or Egypt was sold
2:10:41
by merchants. He was sold to potiphar who was an employee, he was
2:10:48
an officer of the Pharaoh of Egypt and as soon as Joseph was there in
2:10:56
the house of fotitifr that man began to prosper the presence of Joseph caused him
2:11:05
to potentiate, to prosper tremendously. But satan Julius is always present the wife
2:11:11
of pupotiphar. He wanted to conquer Joseph and Joseph refused or went to jail.
2:11:20
And again there is the providence of God, For being in prison,
2:11:24
Joseph becomes as the chief almost of the prison, by his character, by
2:11:28
his goodness, by his honesty. And there two men go to prison,
2:11:35
the king' s cupbearer and the king' s baker. And these men
2:11:43
dream dreams that Joseph interprets, and the cupbearer is set free, the baker
2:11:54
is executed, but the cupbearer forgets Joseph until one day Pharaoh also had dreams,
2:12:01
the famous dreams of the lean cows and fat cows and of the ears
2:12:07
in just and full ears, and Joseph was taken out of prison. They
2:12:18
interpret Pharaoh' s dreams and that' s why Joshua is going to become
2:12:24
the second in command. He was only above him Pharaoh, by character,
2:12:31
by wisdom, by what God had done in Joseph' s life. And
2:12:37
then the Bible account says that there was a famine in all the land and
2:12:41
the people had to go to buy food there in Egypt, which was where
2:12:46
there was food, because Joseph had wisely planned it. Joseph' s brothers
2:12:52
were already dressed and there was a tremendous encounter between Joseph and his brothers.
2:12:58
The brothers thought Joseph was going to take revenge on them, but Joseph told
2:13:03
him not to worry. You worry about what you wanted to do for evil.
2:13:09
God has turned it back for good, so we see God' s
2:13:15
tremendous wisdom there. Or I know it was an instrument of God to save
2:13:22
practically mankind from those times. And all that was July by the sovereign grace
2:13:28
of God and by the sovereign will of God. Or less like that.
2:13:33
That' s right, it' s Carballosa. It is a good book
2:13:37
for lovers of the Bible, since we take it for granted that we read
2:13:43
genesis and read it in all books. But for friends who approach the Bible
2:13:48
timidly occasionally the book of genesis, which can suppose their reading. Well,
2:13:56
look. I' ve been thinking about that a lot. I' m
2:13:58
glad you asked that question. Many times I have been asked in the past,
2:14:05
when someone wants to read the Bible where it should begin. I told
2:14:09
him good that he should begin with the Gospel of John, or with the
2:14:13
Book of Acts or with the Epistle to the Romans. But I don'
2:14:18
t do that anymore. Now I tell people to start reading the Book of
2:14:24
Genesis, because that' s so they can understand the rest of the Bible.
2:14:31
You have to start there by reading about God. What kind of God
2:14:37
is God. He is an almighty wise God, He is a God who
2:14:43
has clans you are, a god of righteousness, he is a god of
2:14:48
love, he is a God of mercy, but he is also a God
2:14:54
who hates sin. And that has been demonstrated through all that God does in
2:14:58
the Bible so much mercy. He called Abraham of Ur of the Chaldeans.
2:15:05
When Abraham was an idolater to God he sovereignly called him and saved him and
2:15:11
made tremendous promises to him. Abraham, Abraham had no children, but God
2:15:18
said I will give you a seed. And God gave it to him.
2:15:20
Abraham had no land, and God gave him a land. And God gave
2:15:26
Isaac, and gave Isaac, and gave Jacob, and gave Jacob twelve patriarchs.
2:15:33
And of that, among those twelve patriarchs was Judah and from Judah came
2:15:39
Jesus the Messiah to that who his name is Jesus, for he will save
2:15:48
his people from their sins. And that is why I recommend to everyone who
2:15:54
wants to read the Bible, to begin reading the Book of Genesis, to
2:16:00
know that the Book of Genesis is not myth, that the Book of Genesis
2:16:05
is reality, that it is history, and that there is all the biblical
2:16:11
doctrine, and there is the doctrine of the trinity, the doctrine of God
2:16:16
' s grace, the doctrine of God' s righteousness, of God'
2:16:20
s love, and there is even what God is going to do in the
2:16:24
future. It says there in chapter forty- nine, Jacob said to Judah,
2:16:31
the father of Jesus, the cestro, will not depart from Judah or
2:16:37
the law giver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes and to him will
2:16:43
gather in the people if Jesus is, because Jesus is the one who has
2:16:48
the right to reign. He is the one whom God sent He is the
2:16:58
seed of the woman. He is the God made flesh, he is the
2:17:03
God who came, who died on the cross for our sins, who resurrected
2:17:07
two the dead, who ascended to heaven and who one day will come with
2:17:13
power, glory and majesty to put order in this world. We learn all
2:17:20
that through the Book of Genesis. And not only do I recommend that believers
2:17:26
read the Book of Genesis. Dear Julio, I recommend to the pastors,
2:17:31
the preachers to preach the message of the Book of the Génese. So it
2:17:39
is interesting and a Council more than pertinent for this time to return to the
2:17:46
origins of everything in the Book of Genesis, for this one I want to
2:17:50
thank You Julius and I thank God for you dear brother, for your Ministry,
2:17:54
for your team, for the way God uses you I give you.
2:17:58
Thank you. Thank God for your friendship. Thank you also for your love
2:18:03
for God' s people. Thank you for your life, Dear, July,
2:18:07
Thank you, Dr Caraballosa. All right, Julio, a big hug,
2:18:09
a hug all the time, Dr Carballosa, I love you so much.
2:18:13
Thank you, Gras, dear. You will already see signs in the
2:18:39
discography, indicating that after birth you may have problems of integration or difficulties in
2:18:43
exercising professions of responsibility and even situations in which your physical integrity or your life
2:18:48
is endangered. But what' s it about, Doctor, you' re
2:18:52
gonna have a little girl. Discrimination against women in society here goes into abuse
2:18:54
and injustice and ill- treatment. Don' t let them get into action
2:18:58
with Amnesty International Traveling on the train of life hello. Very welcome to Digital
2:19:30
Protestant. One more day, we are in this interview space, in which
2:19:33
we are receiving different people to discuss also topics. I always believe of interest
2:19:39
and in this case we come to talk about an important anniversary and also an
2:19:43
event, but also a movement is called the Lausanne Movement. Surely many of
2:19:50
our readers can know it, because really in Protestant Digital we are publishing very
2:19:54
often things that come from the Lausanne Movement or that are related. And this
2:19:58
is because Rea is a movement that is important, that is important to the
2:20:03
evangelicals, and we are going to comment today on aspects of Lausanne with Jau
2:20:07
Mayennas. He is the national coordinator in Spain of the Lausanne Movement, who
2:20:13
we already welcome, already or more thanks for being with us the fegra.
2:20:16
On the contrary, it is a privilege to be in digital Protestant with all
2:20:22
the fantastic things you do every day to bring us up- to- date
2:20:28
information and connect with reality. Thank you, Well, thank you Jauma for
2:20:31
those words. And we are really, as we said, on the threshold
2:20:35
of holding the fourth Lausanne Congress. This will take place in September. It
2:20:41
will be in Seoul and there, then we' ll talk a little bit
2:20:43
about the details, but thousands of people from all over the world will be
2:20:48
gathering there for a week. But really the Lausanne movement is not something that
2:20:52
has just been born is already fifty years old. In fact, this two
2:20:54
thousand twenty- four is the 50th anniversary of that congress that was held in
2:20:58
Switzerland. And that is why he is the man of Lausanne and since then
2:21:03
he is a movement that has served as a catalyst for mission momentum throughout the
2:21:07
world. So the first thing would be to tell us a little bit how
2:21:13
it started, with what objectives this Lausanne movement. A little before seventy-
2:21:18
four, about sixty- six sixty- eight, Billie Gran, the great
2:21:22
evangelist of the twentieth century, begins to think about the possibility of bringing together
2:21:28
a smaller previous conference of evangelization here in Europe, in Berlin, Amsterdam.
2:21:37
Then start gathering people who start thinking about something much bigger. He, who
2:21:43
is a practical evangelist, seeks the support of one of the great theologians,
2:21:50
of the great men of reference of the twentieth century, who was John Stott,
2:21:54
and the two together will prepare that Congress of World Evangelization of MNS one
2:22:01
thousand nine hundred and seventy- four. This gives the two souls of the
2:22:05
osana. The bear has a practical evangelistic soul. All those who are in
2:22:09
the field, in evangelization, in the mission directly plus all those who carry
2:22:13
out the reflection on evangelization and mission, and they come together and begin to
2:22:18
think of something more polycentric, something that today, this word they did not
2:22:22
know. It is a word of our time, but they do begin to
2:22:28
think not only of the United States, not only of Europe, but of
2:22:33
where else the mission is being given and they begin to see all the emerging
2:22:37
force that Latin America had at the time. They bring people like Renepadillas,
2:22:43
Master, Escobar and others from Latin America, but also people from Africa,
2:22:48
people from Asia and they hold a world conference on evangelization and begin to think
2:22:54
about how to do it, what is the methodology of the Congress that will
2:23:00
inspire the saint to this day and they, instead of saying that whoever wants
2:23:03
to be pointed out, what they do is of no. We' re
2:23:05
not going to select who we want to come. The procedure is the other
2:23:09
way around who should be here. And they begin to make invitations and from
2:23:13
these invitations arises the concept of people of influence, which continues today modulating what
2:23:18
is Lausanne, not gathering ideas and people of influence for the world mission.
2:23:28
And this is what has produced a whole movement around the world of reflection and
2:23:33
action in the mission. It' s not that the Usana does anything,
2:23:39
but that Lausanne is going to say that what it does is to put together,
2:23:43
is to put up a dance floor so that all those who are reflecting
2:23:48
and all those who are doing can have time together to see how to advance
2:23:52
the Kingdom. The progress made in the Lausanne movement is tremendous. From there,
2:23:58
there are a lot of new situations that still reach us today. That
2:24:05
' s how the Hay movement is born? Why is the LAUSSA movement born?
2:24:11
The truth is that it is very interesting to see that beginning and how
2:24:15
it has developed over time. It is clear that the impact has been,
2:24:22
as you said now, very important in aspects such as the concept of broadcasting.
2:24:28
But what could we say that it has meant for the evangelical world to
2:24:31
have this movement in motion during these fifty years. The truth is that it
2:24:35
has been prophetic in that sense and I say so in terms of the growth
2:24:43
of the gospel throughout the world. In seventy- four we will say that
2:24:46
the impact of the evangelicals was still beginning. But today, the evangelical movement
2:24:50
is the fastest growing movement worldwide in all that is the religious sphere. Nothing
2:24:56
has a movement as growing as the evangelical world and began with very concrete aspects.
2:25:03
For example, up to a thousand nine hundred and seventy- four,
2:25:09
the Pentecostal movement was a lateral movement, not a movement that was counted within
2:25:13
the evangelical movement. Note that even today, so many millions of Pentecostals are
2:25:18
said to be evangelical in world religious statistics. But Billy gram and John This
2:25:26
was seen as the Pentecostal movement, as part of the evangelical movement, to
2:25:35
invite them for the first time to a great world congress so that they would
2:25:41
be present. And today we are one body. This is what is the
2:25:45
wish of the Lord of Unity of the Church, but also the desire to
2:25:48
work together, because we preach the same Gospel. We' re no different.
2:25:52
Pentecostals are evangelicals. This vision is new. This vision we give for
2:25:58
center day, of course, that Pentecostals. But it was not so until
2:26:03
the year seventy- four. The concept, as you said, the concept
2:26:07
of emission, is a new concept for us, until time had come,
2:26:11
after the Second World War, a great disappointment, after the First and Second
2:26:16
World Wars, a great disappointment within the Christian movement, which had produced a
2:26:20
let- off of everything that is part of the mission, of the demonstration
2:26:26
of the Gospel. Not only and then we begin to talk a lot about
2:26:31
preaching the Gospel of proclamation. But they reach those theologians of the South,
2:26:37
those theologians of Latin America, who begin to introduce us into a new concept
2:26:41
that is an integral mission, that the mission is not only proclamation, but
2:26:48
that proclamation comes together. In the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with demonstration.
2:26:52
Jesus not only preaches, Jesus not only teaches, but Jesus teaches and heals
2:26:58
on some occasions, only healthy on some occasions only proclaims and on many occasions
2:27:03
heals and proclaims at once. And that makes us see that our Gospel is
2:27:07
much more. What an impact it has had on us today, a huge
2:27:11
impact has had in the year nineteen hundred and seventy- four. The churches
2:27:16
did not want to hear about what was social. The churches had completely departed
2:27:20
from something that Christianity had had within them over the centuries and the churches had
2:27:24
ceased to have that social impact. But from then on, which church today
2:27:31
does not have a social branch, which Church does not have a social work.
2:27:35
How many evangelical NGOs have been created for the demonstration of the gospel.
2:27:41
This is huge. In the evangelists we are investing in today an enormous amount
2:27:45
of our resources, because we think not that this is a collateral thing,
2:27:50
but that this is also the gospel. In Spain, the social work of
2:27:54
the evangelicals, in the fifth global social work of the Gospels of all two,
2:28:00
the country is the evangelical. Not concepts like ethnic groups, not reached.
2:28:05
This is a sketch that for us today is normal. It' s
2:28:11
common to talk about this. But this is born in the OSAN movement and
2:28:15
we could go on to say concept after concept not of those who have arisen
2:28:20
by putting the right people in the right place to discuss issues between us that
2:28:24
have produced such practical effects as, for example, that from seventy- four
2:28:28
until now, thirty percent of the unachieved ethnic groups have already been reached with
2:28:33
the Clauste Gospel. It is an advance of the brutal Gospel. This is
2:28:39
coming to the dream of the Lord who was that all people had the opportunity
2:28:43
to respond to the Gospel. Of course, 74 are specially set up so
2:28:48
that the great task that remains for us, those unfulfilled ethnic groups, can
2:28:54
be reached by two thousand and fifty. Not then is it a lot of
2:29:00
things, as you have told us now, not and the obviously visible impacts,
2:29:05
especially when you see them with the perspective of time, you notice them
2:29:09
much more, because sometimes, of course, it is not a Congress that
2:29:11
has perhaps an immediate impact, but it goes, as a little bit,
2:29:16
to the point of what it has to do with the reflection that is then
2:29:20
carried out at the level of denominations, at the level of local churches,
2:29:24
at the regional level. In fact, it is also interesting to see that
2:29:26
the use movement has had this development at the regional level and also at the
2:29:31
country level at the local level. For example, here in Spain. Tell
2:29:35
us a little bit? How it has also developed at these levels since always,
2:29:43
what is the movement of beautiful global obsanation, a movement that has joined
2:29:46
forces on a global level. But it is also having, and this is
2:29:50
more recent, a regional plasmaation. The Lausanne movement is divided into twelve regions.
2:29:58
He has a vision, but he also has a vision of strategic fields,
2:30:03
that is, of what subjects he has to discuss. And especially after
2:30:07
two thousand and ten in Cape Town, what is called within the Edwards Sonnaission
2:30:11
movement, i e, the index themes, themes of which he is talking
2:30:16
about thirty- five themes that have to be touched upon to reach the last
2:30:20
of the Earth thirty- five themes that had not been seen so far,
2:30:26
but now he sees a great strategy and that is also another way of structuring
2:30:31
the use. Therefore, regions are subject and there is also another that is
2:30:37
by age. Then there is a very intergenerational movement, a movement in which
2:30:43
from the oldest to the youngest work together to get the Gospel to come.
2:30:50
Therefore, it does not have a single form of organization, which could be
2:30:54
many organizations have one or one regional or other one. Think of other ways,
2:31:01
but here you have touched those three ways of organizing, that work together
2:31:05
to achieve the goal. On top of that, there are also national movements.
2:31:13
Not always. That' s been worked around the world. We have
2:31:16
had participants in the Osana since a thousand nine hundred and seventy- four.
2:31:20
In Spain there were participants such as José Grau, for example, who was
2:31:24
one of those who also impacted and were impacted by the Usana one thousand nine
2:31:28
hundred thirty- four. There have been participants. José María Martínez was in
2:31:31
the eighty- nine. In other words, Spain has always had participants,
2:31:35
but especially since the year two thousand eight we have for the first time a
2:31:41
national committee. They had national committees in Europe virtually only in the Nordic countries,
2:31:46
Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark. National committees were strong there,
2:31:50
but many other countries have not had so far. Spain has had since two
2:31:54
thousand eight a movement that has been working to deploy, to think about what
2:32:01
these thirty- five themes of the Osana movement mean, those that proposed to
2:32:05
us the commitment of Ciudad del Cabo, what they meant to us we have
2:32:11
worked on documents such as proposing for small groups each of the thirty- five
2:32:18
themes, so that they could be analyzed in thirty- five different meetings.
2:32:22
We published it in a book, but we also published in digital Protestant an
2:32:26
adaptation thirty- five Spanish authors saying what this topic meant in our country,
2:32:33
what it would be to deploy that topic in our country. We' ve
2:32:37
been doing a study all these years. For example, we have been the
2:32:41
first country in the world to have created a tool to measure the missionaryity of
2:32:48
a country, and we have made a measure of the missionaryity of Spain.
2:32:52
We have produced a document with conclusions of what should be taken into account to
2:32:58
increase the degree of missionary consciousness of the Church, interviewing more than four hundred
2:33:05
about five hundred leaders. Specifically, we were launching them on evangelical leaders and
2:33:11
then analyzing the data, we had an analysis of what is quantitative, of
2:33:15
what is qualitative and then doing a work on the conclusions that came out and
2:33:24
making proposals for the Church in Spain. Lately, the movement in Spain has
2:33:28
been focusing a lot on something that, everywhere we were seeing as the weakest
2:33:35
point, the weakest point of the Church in Spain. Everyone was telling us
2:33:39
the same thing. What is failing in Spain is that the Church is failing
2:33:43
to make disciples intentionally relationally. We are making disciples alone mentally. We inform
2:33:50
them, we explain things to them, but we are not going to a
2:33:56
discipleship of our entire lives. And this is what has been devoted much to
2:33:56
the Lausanne movement in Spain, which is directed above all to three hundred influencers,
2:34:03
which these three hundred influencers then exert that influence, make known even without
2:34:07
quoting the uana. Of course, it is not necessary to quote Lausanne.
2:34:11
The important thing about one sentence we have in Lausanne is that our fruits grow
2:34:16
on the trees of others. Therefore, to inspire that today discipleship is a
2:34:22
subject that is much more in the day to day of the churches of Spain.
2:34:28
And I think that in part we are not the only ones who have
2:34:31
collaborated in this, but in part we are responsible for the fact that today
2:34:35
there is more talk of discipleship in the Spanish Church and many other bad things
2:34:41
because it is our influencers who really bring the issues to the discussion table.
2:34:46
Yes, it is very interesting this work that has been done in recent years,
2:34:50
as you said well, since two thousand eight and above all starting out
2:34:52
I think that the two thousand ten that Congress of Cape Town there is an
2:34:58
impulse, I think that it is natural of what is the Lausanne movement in
2:35:03
Spain and also good to remember that practically every year in November a face-
2:35:09
to- face meeting has also been held in which, since, a hundred
2:35:15
evangelical leaders have participated that have been passing through there, surely many more,
2:35:18
but good hundred together more or less for just and dealing with these issues,
2:35:24
discussing them and maintaining the interest that has maintained the interest not in Lausanne,
2:35:28
but in what Lausanne proposes, that this is what is interesting about this movement.
2:35:31
And so we arrived at this year' s Congress, well this year
2:35:35
of this decade. We could say fourth World Congress to be held in Seoul,
2:35:39
as we said before, it will be in September of the 22nd,
2:35:45
from the 20th to the 28th of September twenty- two to the 28th of
2:35:50
September, more or less, the dates are out there about a week or
2:35:52
so on which they will gather, because about five zero people, in person,
2:35:58
I think there are thousands who will also join online. What is the
2:36:03
expectation that you personally have before this new Congress and what is being prepared.
2:36:09
And the truth is that expectations are high, because Congress has prepared itself a
2:36:13
lot many times. It is not only what is produced there, but the
2:36:20
previous and subsequent impact for years and within the interest groups and within the regions,
2:36:26
above all, but there has also been an intergenerational encounter. Then it
2:36:35
has been asked what are the topics on which we should be looking to complete
2:36:43
the world mission, to reach all the technical groups not reached to reach every
2:36:48
person with the gospel from here to two thousand and fifty. This was the
2:36:52
question. Even we, in Spain, during the pandemic, had an important
2:36:58
consultation, great also with many evangelical leaders online, of course, because we
2:37:03
were in pandemic, but listening and we also sent our conclusions as a national
2:37:11
movement, saying we have to stay to five questions, we have to be
2:37:15
attentive to these concrete things. All this has led to ten issues, which
2:37:20
is what you have answered, which is called the state of the great Commission.
2:37:28
The state of the great Commission has gathered to see these questions coming out
2:37:33
of the interest groups, coming out of the regions, coming out of the
2:37:37
generations and then, responding to all this, making statistics of what the situation
2:37:43
is in each continent, of what the forecast of how that situation will be.
2:37:50
A total of ten questions have been answered. There are 150 world leaders
2:37:56
thinkers who have been working on this. This is going to be the status
2:38:00
of the Great Commission. We' ll have it in Spanish in July.
2:38:05
It will be published on the website of the Osana. We will try to
2:38:09
publish it also the web of the use Spain, so that everyone who enters
2:38:11
in Lausanne Spain rg as it can have the state of the Great Commission.
2:38:16
There and from those questions that have been asked, since twenty- five gaps
2:38:22
have been seen, twenty- five gaps are worth covering so that the gospel
2:38:30
can reach the whole world with an opportunity to listen and respond to the Gospel.
2:38:39
And this is what we' re going to talk about. According to
2:38:43
what is going to be done above all, it is to open spaces for
2:38:48
collaboration. There is a whole space in the afternoon for collaboration sessions, in
2:38:54
which each of those twenty- five gaps, I say some. For example,
2:38:58
the ageing of the world population, the creation of a new middle class,
2:39:03
for example, today the middle class practically does not exist in Africa,
2:39:07
but from here, two thousand and fifty are going to emerge a great middle
2:39:11
class in Africa. For example, of course how this will affect the world
2:39:15
evangelization, the next generation, the development and extension of Islam, secularism,
2:39:22
what will involve Ministry in the digital age, what does it mean to be
2:39:31
human in the era of artificial intelligence, what is the polycentric mission, how
2:39:35
can we live in a way, how our spirituality will affect missions, what
2:39:41
does Community mean in the middle of the 21st century, no, what is
2:39:50
our influence in society on issues such as religious politics, radical politics, the
2:39:56
care of creation, the culture of the most vulnerable. Anyway, a lot
2:40:01
of topics, these twenty- five topics that are going to be realized each
2:40:05
from seven different perspectives, and then what you' re going to look for
2:40:09
is to see what the current situation is. Analyze, make one imagine how
2:40:16
this situation could be? Imagine how we could work together, how we could
2:40:22
communicate what we could do working together and finally how to commit to that work?
2:40:28
But it is that Congress does not end with Congress, that is,
2:40:31
when the 28th day we put the closure to Congress, there is a whole
2:40:37
team that enters from that moment, that is to follow up on those commitments
2:40:41
that have been made, their collaborative commitments, because so far we have been
2:40:46
working each one much on its side, you know this denomination, here,
2:40:50
that other, there that country, now there, this other country. But
2:40:54
if we imagine working as a single body, and if we imagine that what
2:41:00
Jesus told us about Unity, we take it seriously and work together what an
2:41:05
African can do with a person from Australia, with a European person, and
2:41:11
yes, together we commit ourselves to contribute the best of each one of us.
2:41:18
To achieve that is to close those twenty- five gaps that we have
2:41:26
identified, as that is a very important part of what is going to occur.
2:41:28
We' re not going there just to listen to lectures. This is
2:41:33
the minor part, the big part, the important part is how we commit
2:41:39
to collaborate together and follow- up, because everything is well prepared to follow
2:41:43
up on each of those commitments. Only from Cape Town came out more than
2:41:50
three zero commitments to work together, which has been very important in advancing.
2:41:54
But from here the preparation he' s doing is a lot more inter with
2:42:01
what thousands of commitments can come out to reach those thousands of ethnicities you didn
2:42:05
' t reach. Or we' re not talking about faraway girls anymore.
2:42:09
It' s just that those signs aren' t enough between us. They
2:42:13
' re in Madrid, they' re in Barcelona, they' re in
2:42:16
Valencia, because they' re here and they' re not outside, they
2:42:18
' re European. Some unreached dets. So, there' s a lot
2:42:22
of things to do there. Yeah, I really do. Well, as
2:42:26
we' ve seen, there' s not much that opens up from what
2:42:31
that event will be as well. But of course we will be talking about
2:42:37
Lausanne in the coming months, surely years, also because we will see,
2:42:41
there is also no expectation of what one can really imagine it can be but
2:42:46
there is also another of what the Lord will do, that will surprise us.
2:42:50
And, without a doubt, we are also looking forward to what may
2:42:54
happen from Spain. We know that there is a participation of one of the
2:43:00
people who are going to the Seoul Congress as well. I think about thirty
2:43:07
people, sort of. Yes, we will be talking about the next few
2:43:11
weeks too, bringing more interviews here about the Lausanne Congress, about the Lausanne
2:43:18
movement, because, as we have seen, this is something very interesting to
2:43:22
reflect on, to also realize what is happening worldwide. Many times we are
2:43:31
perhaps very involved in our local church or in our perspective of what day-
2:43:35
to- day is, and all right, but how beautiful it is to
2:43:39
be able to open up to what God is doing worldwide. And Lausanne,
2:43:43
of course, is a wonderful window to be able to look at what is
2:43:48
happening and how God is carrying out this mission of transforming the world and bringing
2:43:54
more people into his Church. So he calls thank you so much for joining
2:44:00
us today and we' ll stay in touch. We continue in confecto,
2:44:05
Fidespierbendiga, thanks to all those who have accompanied us today in this interview.
2:44:09
You know that we will follow the digital Protestant with the information also specifically about
2:44:16
Lausanne. We will be performing as we said special interviews, reports and a
2:44:22
very intentional and very specific coverage of this Congress to be held is seul in
2:44:24
the coming months. So stay tuned and follow with us that Lord Bless you.
2:44:33
If you want to visit our website, the WWW. Point the train
2:44:39
of life, the train of just life is o s u cho po the
2:44:46
evangelical churches a place of peace and friendship. You can freely attend the nearest
2:45:01
evangelical church in your neighborhood or your population. You' ll be very welcome.