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[REPLAY] STSE #7: The Shame Game · Sometimes There's Side Eye

• 0:15
  Welcome to Sometimes Their Side Eye, a podcast about two friends
• 0:19
  having real and unfiltered conversations about dogs and
• 0:22
  people. Listen as we talk about our
• 0:25
  lives with dogs, training, behavior, share some laughs and
• 0:29
  a whole lot of banter. I'm Heather.
• 0:31
  And I'm Christy. Today we are going to be talking
• 0:34
  about the subject of shame. But first.
• 0:38
  If you would like to pause the podcast and go and share,
• 0:44
  subscribe, rate or even leave us a review if you've enjoyed our
• 0:48
  previous episodes, feel free to do that and then rejoin us
• 0:51
  because we're not going anywhere, Heather.
• 0:53
  Let's get into. Shame and the same spiral that
• 0:56
  sometimes comes with. Dog behavior, yes.
• 1:00
  And dog in general, Yeah. I was reminded of my journey
• 1:05
  with my Pitbull loose earlier and I wanted to talk about the
• 1:11
  subject of shame because I think that it is something that should
• 1:16
  be talked about more. And I think it's something that
• 1:19
  we should all be willing to be open about when not just shame
• 1:24
  in general, but when something happens with our dogs in regards
• 1:28
  to behavior or training or whatever it is.
• 1:30
  And it just doesn't go the way that we expected.
• 1:32
  Because a lot of times when things don't go the way we
• 1:35
  expect, there's also a lot of heartbreak and disappointment
• 1:38
  that goes along with that and you.
• 1:41
  What you a lot of fear. A lot of fear, yes, and what you
• 1:45
  really need is support and understanding.
• 1:48
  But instead we all sort of close in on ourselves and send
• 1:52
  ourselves down this little shame spiral.
• 1:55
  And so I know we've talked about my situation with my Lucy
• 2:00
  before, but I thought that we would revisit it and then just
• 2:03
  kind of talk about this topic in general.
• 2:06
  As a reminder, I did adopt A pit bull Lucy when she was 14 weeks
• 2:11
  old and we ended up having her until she was 11.
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  And the majority of her life was spent in our home in a crate and
• 2:21
  rotate situation because Lucy ended up not being dog social
• 2:25
  with the dogs that she lived with.
• 2:27
  And it was a really long journey, but I want to back up
• 2:31
  to when we started having problems when she was about 16
• 2:34
  months old. So first of all, at that point
• 2:37
  in my life, I was already a hardcore Pitbull advocate and I
• 2:42
  was an advocate of not just pitbulls but rescue in general.
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  I was so passionate about pitbulls and how amazing they
• 2:51
  are, and I still believe that they are amazing.
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  I've had four. I wouldn't have had four in my
• 2:56
  life and talk about them the way I do with so much love if I
• 3:01
  didn't think they're amazing. But at the same time, having a
• 3:05
  Pitbull who 1 is a rescue which you're advocating for, and then
• 3:10
  2 ends up having dog issues and then three on top of it honestly
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  is a female. It brings up all these different
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  myths and all these different things that people say and think
• 3:24
  about and talk about and especially people who are anti
• 3:29
  Pitbull. And I felt so much shame and I
• 3:33
  felt so much disappointment with myself.
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  It I didn't put it on my dog and it's not her fault.
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  It wouldn't belong there. But I just felt so much shame.
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  That is the only word. And I spent a really long time
• 3:52
  not talking about the fact that Lucy didn't get along with other
• 3:55
  dogs and that she couldn't be in a home, you know, socializing
• 4:00
  with her, her housemates, because there was this big.
• 4:03
  I didn't want to do that to the pit bull reputation and I didn't
• 4:07
  want to do that to rescue dogs reputation.
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  And I didn't want people to look at her and just see that, you
• 4:15
  know, And let me tell you, I was judged plenty just based on Lucy
• 4:19
  being a pit bull. I had her at an an agility trial
• 4:24
  and was asked if I fight her as well.
• 4:26
  So I literally had. Oh Lord.
• 4:29
  Those things happen, but for me, I was living this really
• 4:33
  isolated period in my life where I felt like I couldn't talk to
• 4:38
  anybody or be honest about what was going on except for people
• 4:43
  really, really close to me. And I I wanted to protect her
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  and protect pit bulls in general.
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  But what I really ended up doing was probably not being while I
• 4:54
  wasn't being real. I felt all of this
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  embarrassment, and there were so many people that I could have
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  talked to if we had all just been open about it, I guess is
• 5:05
  where I'm coming from. Prestige nodding.
• 5:07
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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  I'm I'm I'm adamantly agreeing because I even wrote down on on
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  the notes that I wanted to make sure that we hit was it's
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  important to know like where shame comes from, Why does it
• 5:20
  exist? Those types of things.
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  And one of the ideas that just was so prevalent in my mind was
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  one you don't want anyone to think less of your dog or of
• 5:31
  you. First of all, you know, you, you
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  don't want people to think that your dog is a jerk.
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  You want, you want people to like you and your dog.
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  Some people will say I don't care about that, but let's,
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  let's be honest, you, you don't want them to think you have an
• 5:43
  out of control dog or to think less of you or your dog.
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  But also there's a lot of pressure put on adopters, yes,
• 5:52
  to not put rescues or pitbulls specifically in a bad light.
• 5:57
  Yeah. And I know so many people will
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  will say things to me like, well, I kind of want to talk to
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  you about this, but it's about a Pitbull and they're not so
• 6:05
  great. And I'm like, that's OK.
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  I don't believe every Pitbull ISM.
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  It's amazing. I don't think every pimple's
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  like Lucy. I don't think you know.
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  I don't think every Bulldogs amazing, I don't think every
• 6:17
  golden retriever is amazing. We had to convince you to think
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  Tater is amazing, I mean. That's true, but you get what
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  I'm saying? I mean, dogs will be dogs will
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  be dogs. Yeah, yeah.
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  But there is a lot of pressure because I think, yeah, the
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  rescue community has done a good job at kind of advertising the
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  idea of these are not second hand dogs or second rate dogs or
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  less than. But sometimes that idea comes
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  with the idea that they are they don't have any behavioral issues
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  ever, right? And I'm not saying that if you
• 6:50
  adopt A dog, you get behavioral issues.
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  Automatically, every dog can have a behavioral issue, right?
• 6:56
  Yeah, but any dog, yeah, can have a behavior issue.
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  And so I think people kind of go into that protecting because
• 7:03
  they don't want anyone else. Like, if I, if I'm honest and I
• 7:07
  share my story, does that mean no, Like, none of my family or
• 7:10
  friends go and adopt A dog now, right?
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  Do they all hate pit bulls now? Right.
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  Do they all hate whatever breed? It doesn't even have to be, you
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  know, do they all hate Rottweilers now?
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  Like, you know, whatever. It's a lot of pressure.
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  It is. And I was thinking about, so I
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  was thinking about how once I started being open and honest
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  about Lucy's issues, as I grew up and became more secure in who
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  I was as a dog owner, I was more willing to talk about these
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  things, right? So as time went on, I used to
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  just say to people, you know what they would say because
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  honestly, for a long time I didn't get this question later
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  with her in life. But for a long time I would say,
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  Oh yeah, we have, we have two pit bulls.
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  And one of the things, first things people would ask me was
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  do they get along? And I will be straight with you.
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  I have lied. I have lied in the past for the
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  sake of other pit bulls who need homes and because I knew that it
• 8:17
  wasn't about her being a pit bull.
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  It's so I mean, let's just go back and listen to her.
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  It's all and how you raise them and genetics and blah, blah,
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  blah. You know, it's so much bigger
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  than that. And I understood that.
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  And I understood that the person who was asking that question was
• 8:32
  uneducated. And so I'm like, you know,
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  automatically like shelling up and being like, oh, yeah, she's
• 8:38
  fine, you know, when in reality I'm not being real.
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  And that's not helping anything either.
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  And I wouldn't do that at this point in my life because, well,
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  it is what it is. I mean, people, you're just
• 8:52
  going to hear it Like, Jesus, we have a podcast.
• 8:55
  But I also have had a really long journey in dogs in general.
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  And so I feel, you know, comfortable kind of voicing what
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  my beliefs are at this moment in time, which are ever evolving.
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  And so I don't feel all that pressure.
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  But now if someone said to me something, you know, about Lucy
• 9:15
  not getting along, I would probably say, well, we're all
• 9:18
  individuals. And I don't like everyone I meet
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  and I'm not forced to live with them.
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  So yeah. But absolutely not.
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  Helpful to people who are living in this situation right now no
• 9:32
  matter what the issue is From hey, my one dog starts barking
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  at the other dog which makes them both start barking and now
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  we have a bark fest right to something as serious as inner
• 9:44
  household aggression. The whole gamut, yeah.
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  I just want to open the door for honest, real conversation about
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  how we're living with our dogs. God, absolutely.
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  Yeah. And I think a lot too comes from
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  nowadays. Maybe not so much like when you
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  first got your Lucy, but nowadays what I see online on
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  social media is perfection. Two dogs playing together who
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  are best friends, yes, but I don't.
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  Or pictures of, you know, the family and the kids and the dogs
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  all together. What you don't see is that 2
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  weeks ago the toddler accidentally opened the crate
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  and there was a huge fight and there was blood everywhere.
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  Yeah, it was a bloodbath because, you know, they fought
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  over a resource that. Which was our reality?
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  Yes. Yeah, and and we don't have a.
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  Job. Scooped up the toddler.
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  Yeah, scooped up the toddler and got out of got their kids to
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  safety before they could ever come back for the docs, you
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  know, to separate. Nobody is telling you on social
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  media, you know very few. And I don't know that that's the
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  place to say it. But I do want to warn that don't
• 11:01
  compare yourself when you say. But I I have 50 friends with who
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  are in the same situation and they're making it work and.
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  They're perfect, Air quote. Perfect.
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  Yeah, let me tell you, Tiago and Tater get along fantastically.
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  However, probably six months ago we did have a start of a, I
• 11:22
  mean, it wasn't going to be like a full-fledged like bloodbath,
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  but we had the start of an argument over a piece of pizza
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  crust, OK. And I was like, in that slow
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  motion, you see it happening. Right.
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  Yeah. And I was too late.
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  And it is the first time that they've been together for 4 1/2
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  years that we've ever had something happen.
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  But it did, and that's reality. Does that mean my dogs, you
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  know, can't be together? What?
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  No, they're sleeping on the floor together right now.
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  But it sure shit means that the next time I have pizza crust,
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  it's going to look a little different.
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  But my point is I have two dogs who get along great and we still
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  have management and I have Thiago who's perfect, but we
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  still have things that happen. Because you have a bulldog?
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  No, not because of that. Because because you have you
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  have two dogs living in a house. Yes, yeah.
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  And our dogs relationships are complex and so everything is so
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  complex. Feel like you're alone.
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  I hate that for anyone. I hate that anyone feels like
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  they are alone in their struggles.
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  I hate that anyone feels shameful about something that's
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  going on in their world that doesn't feel perfect because
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  we've all been there. And maybe not in the exact
• 12:52
  picture, But I, I want people to feel comfortable enough to be
• 12:57
  like talked about, for it to be talked about and for them not to
• 13:01
  be judged. Because also when we open the
• 13:04
  lines of communication, sometimes we get solutions or
• 13:09
  ideas. Yeah, I think you can get a lot
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  of bad ideas off of social media.
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  So go to some trusted resources first that that would be my
• 13:18
  suggestion. And then when you're more
• 13:20
  comfortable, you can Share your story to help others know that
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  they're not alone either. You know, if if you decide to,
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  if you if you want to be brave in that way.
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  But is social media is tough because there's a lot of judging
• 13:34
  eyes for no reason too. And I think that's where a lot
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  of things get shared. Yeah, and everyone.
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  Has an opinion. Let me tell you, I had an
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  opinion about all sorts of things until I experienced them.
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  And then I was like, wow, that was I was high and mighty of
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  you, huh, Christy? Like like.
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  OK. That didn't just whip into shape
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  like I thought it would. Like now that I'm.
• 13:56
  In it. OK, no.
• 14:00
  So like, yeah, it's true for example, like Julius is again
• 14:04
  the easiest dog to live with. Super fun, he has all the
• 14:09
  amazing qualities, but he is leash reactive and so I'll be
• 14:13
  honest in his defense, I had not been working on that hard.
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  Because you were busy building the drive and a dog.
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  I was, yeah. I was working on food drive, so
• 14:24
  the leash reactivity was kind of on the back burner.
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  He was getting some walks. He just.
• 14:29
  And Lucy was just messing up my life with her health issues.
• 14:32
  So he wasn't getting consistent walks anyway, which isn't great
• 14:36
  for him. But a couple weeks ago, I
• 14:39
  messaged Heather that we had started doing walks
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  consistently. I'm managing, I'm working on
• 14:45
  some different things for leash reactivity, trying some some
• 14:48
  different things. And I really felt like the day
• 14:51
  before, I was like, Heather, I wish you could see how great
• 14:55
  he's been. Send me a voice message so I
• 14:57
  could get. Literally 4 minutes before this
• 15:00
  incident happens, I'm thinking, man, I'm going to make Heather
• 15:03
  come on a walk because this is just so amazing.
• 15:06
  Like how much progress he's I walk up a hill and there's a
• 15:10
  dog. On.
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  A leash who is not even looking at Julius, looking down at a
• 15:15
  trash can, sniffing the trash can.
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  Julius runs to the end of my long line and luckily I always
• 15:21
  keep a lot of distance. But I was surprised to see a dog
• 15:25
  up there. He runs, barking, growling,
• 15:27
  snapping and instantly I'm mad. I am furious with him.
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  I want to take away every resource from him.
• 15:35
  You don't deserve this is you guys.
• 15:38
  I am not proud of this moment. I'm sharing it because what I've
• 15:41
  realized was they're talking to Heather and doing some self
• 15:44
  reflection. I was embarrassed in that moment
• 15:47
  that I felt like I was a better trainer than that.
• 15:51
  And so he had gotten out of my control in front of another
• 15:54
  human being. He doesn't know me, He doesn't
• 15:56
  care. He just thinks my dog's a jerk
• 15:58
  who doesn't even know he's a foster.
• 16:00
  He knows nothing about me. I've never seen that guy again.
• 16:03
  You're not Christy. You're not wearing a sign like
• 16:05
  telling him all the important points about you so that he
• 16:08
  could then make judgement. He literally knows.
• 16:11
  Nothing by the way, I do a podcast and now I feel like a
• 16:14
  fake, but luckily in the moment I was smart enough to think
• 16:20
  don't take away all his resources like even though my
• 16:22
  initial was like you don't deserve treat, Don't take away
• 16:25
  his resources like keep doing treat scatters do now that you
• 16:29
  have his attention back, like let's re engage.
• 16:31
  Let's. But then I told Heather all
• 16:34
  about it. Yes, I just expected to be
• 16:36
  further along. I think, even though I hadn't
• 16:39
  put the time in, I expected like once I did it like a couple
• 16:42
  times, we would just be once he had so many great days in a row.
• 16:46
  I thought we would just be over it now and we could just move
• 16:49
  on. And even though I, you know,
• 16:50
  logically that's not right. What works anyone else?
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  I would be like, you're being ridiculous.
• 16:56
  I love you, but you're being ridiculous so.
• 16:59
  And at the end of the day, they are dogs and their needs and
• 17:05
  wants and all these different things are completely different
• 17:09
  from ours. And we can't look at them and
• 17:12
  say, hey guy, are you having a rough day?
• 17:14
  What do you need today? Or hey guy, do you not feel like
• 17:18
  going for a walk today because you have no spoons left?
• 17:21
  Or hey guy, does your leg hurt today because you're like 11 and
• 17:26
  you have arthritis? You get what I'm saying?
• 17:28
  I mean, we can't have these conversations with them, but yet
• 17:32
  we are still going out. We're having them have an off
• 17:37
  day. We're being embarrassed about
• 17:39
  it. And then we're putting ourselves
• 17:41
  into this little shame box and we're like, oh, Christy, you
• 17:45
  shot. You're a terrible handler.
• 17:47
  Oh, Christy, you know, And it's like, wait.
• 17:51
  It's, it's the shame spiral because it started with like,
• 17:54
  you suck. You don't know what you're doing
• 17:56
  as a trainer. So you, you suck as, as just a
• 17:59
  dog parent in general. And then it went to like, well,
• 18:02
  you're, you're a fake because you're doing a podcast.
• 18:05
  So you're a jerk because you thought about taking away his
• 18:08
  treat? Also, you're the tittiest Foster
• 18:11
  we've ever seen. Like probably like probably
• 18:14
  someone should take this foster dog from me because like.
• 18:18
  So they're taking away from from Christie because Kitty balls are
• 18:23
  and clearly it is arable. Damn miracle she's kept Lucy
• 18:27
  alive for 12 years. I mean, really people it.
• 18:29
  Kind of is. Oh, gosh, no.
• 18:32
  But you know what else I was just thinking about?
• 18:35
  I was thinking about how we also do it not just to protect the
• 18:41
  dogs when they're living. We do it to protect them in
• 18:44
  death, too. Because remember how I was
• 18:46
  saying everything happened with cash and I didn't want to talk
• 18:50
  about it because I don't want anyone to remember him that way?
• 18:55
  As if that small little snippet in time was enough to erase
• 18:59
  everything else. And then that made me think
• 19:02
  about the fact that there's an entire group on Facebook of
• 19:08
  people who have had to do behavioral euthanasia's that has
• 19:12
  literally grown to, Oh my gosh, I don't even know how big it is
• 19:16
  now. It's 10s of thousands of people.
• 19:19
  That group is losing Lulu, right?
• 19:21
  Losing Lulu, in case anyone needs to find support, it is not
• 19:25
  to help you discuss behavior or anything like that or help make
• 19:29
  a decision. There's other groups for that.
• 19:30
  This is solely A grief support group.
• 19:33
  And it's this incredible community that has grown, but it
• 19:38
  grew from the idea of shame. I mean it grew because A very
• 19:45
  well respected trainer and dog behaviorist chose to euthanize
• 19:49
  her foster who was dog aggressive and really
• 19:53
  horrifically attacked one of her personal dogs and she was
• 19:57
  maligned and just torn apart online because she was public
• 20:02
  about it instead of going into that shame spiral.
• 20:07
  She turned it into this legacy and this beautiful support
• 20:12
  community for other people who have been through this.
• 20:15
  But I guess my point is, here is this massive community of people
• 20:22
  who have found each other because they felt so much shame
• 20:25
  over something that just is an awful, awful thing to happen in
• 20:29
  their life. And I guarantee whatever you're
• 20:32
  going through with your dog or dog's behavior, whatever it is,
• 20:37
  you're not the first person to go through that.
• 20:39
  You're not the only person to go through that.
• 20:41
  And that doesn't lessen it because it is freaking hell.
• 20:45
  Whatever you're going through, it sucks.
• 20:48
  It's miserable, right? Yeah.
• 20:51
  It's definitely not to lessen that, but it's to let you know
• 20:54
  like you're not alone in it either.
• 20:56
  You're not the first person. You won't be the last person.
• 21:00
  So, so find other people who either can support you because
• 21:04
  they've been through it or can support you in a way because
• 21:08
  they're familiar with with those behaviors or that situation.
• 21:13
  And I don't think you should feel shame.
• 21:15
  You know, I think it goes back just like you said to.
• 21:18
  It's kind of all in how you raise them to that we feel like
• 21:21
  we did something wrong if they turn out to have these behavior
• 21:25
  issues. But guess what?
• 21:26
  Like no one is perfect. No one is doing it 100% all the
• 21:30
  time. And no. 1.
• 21:32
  You can't combat the genetics either.
• 21:34
  So you are, you're 50%, you know, I mean, I don't know what
• 21:39
  the actual ratio is, but you know, you're, you're also
• 21:42
  walking, how do I want to say it?
• 21:44
  You're like walking against the genetics as well.
• 21:47
  You know what I mean? In this journey.
• 21:49
  So it's a journey where you're walking alongside that dog's
• 21:53
  genetics at the same time. And that is something to
• 21:56
  remember and to give yourself grace.
• 22:01
  And I know it feels hard because I've been there.
• 22:04
  It is hard to give your dog grace sometimes.
• 22:07
  It was really hard after a fight where Lucy tried to kill, and I,
• 22:14
  I mean, she was trying to kill Layla.
• 22:17
  It was really hard to look at my dog who I loved so much and had
• 22:22
  spent so much time working with, to look at her afterwards and
• 22:28
  the blood and everything. You know, not to be graphic, but
• 22:31
  I mean, it really is. It goes to the whole all the
• 22:34
  emotions behind it and to just it was really hard to sort of
• 22:40
  get back to a place. And I think that's normal.
• 22:43
  And I think that that's you shouldn't feel bad about that
• 22:46
  either. Those emotions are real and
• 22:49
  they're raw and all of this stuff, when you have inner
• 22:53
  household stuff going on, when you have dog reactivity
• 22:56
  happening, when you have all these different behavior things
• 22:59
  where there is an element of shame that that's heavy, heavy
• 23:03
  stuff. Give yourself grace.
• 23:06
  Find moments to give your dog grace.
• 23:08
  Like be kind to yourself. And like Christy said, like try
• 23:12
  to find community, try to find people who will understand you.
• 23:16
  And if they don't understand you, man, just go in the
• 23:20
  opposite direction. Maybe that's not the friend that
• 23:23
  you talk to about your dog behavior problem.
• 23:26
  You know, we need to feel like we can find support in each
• 23:31
  other. Yeah, yeah, I definitely think
• 23:35
  there's been such a focus for so long on supporting our dogs,
• 23:39
  which is great. I, I love that.
• 23:41
  I want to support our dogs in every way we can because they're
• 23:45
  such an important part of my life.
• 23:47
  They think sometimes we forget to support each other in that,
• 23:51
  in that journey. And supporting your dog is
• 23:53
  supporting yourself too. Like that's an important part.
• 23:56
  And so I think we need to think through like how we can better
• 23:59
  support each other in those situations too.
• 24:02
  And it's sometimes it's not coming up with solutions for
• 24:05
  yourself, friend who comes to you and says, Hey, this is the
• 24:09
  situation I'm facing. Sometimes it's just listening.
• 24:12
  And sometimes you, you might have to ask like, are you asking
• 24:15
  me as someone who can give advice or as just as your
• 24:19
  friend, you just want a listening ear.
• 24:21
  I think that's that's an important way to support each
• 24:23
  other too, is is to just be there and listen.
• 24:26
  Yeah, yeah. We have brought dogs into our
• 24:29
  lives in every single way, and I'm here for it.
• 24:33
  OK. Yeah, me too.
• 24:35
  Dogs are legit everything in my life.
• 24:39
  But we cannot forget the human element and we have to remember
• 24:47
  ourselves in that and we have to make sure that we are OK.
• 24:53
  That shame spiral, it's really, really ugly and it I get it and
• 25:01
  I've been there and I'll probably be there again at some
• 25:04
  point. But if you can just take a
• 25:06
  moment and kind of peek out and look for somebody who's, you
• 25:11
  know, kind of holding up a flag for you and being like, hey, you
• 25:16
  know, like safe harbor the whole thing and, and just look for
• 25:21
  that person and open up to them. I really think that you might
• 25:26
  find some understanding you didn't expect and some honesty
• 25:30
  that you didn't expect and things might not feel as shamey
• 25:36
  and as as terrible as they were before just because you have
• 25:41
  some solidarity and and somebody to share with.
• 25:45
  And I think there's just the kind of almost as a side note, I
• 25:48
  think shame sometimes leads to dangerous situations.
• 25:52
  I feel like people are ashamed that their dog is maybe not
• 25:56
  friendly with every dog. Oh yeah, or.
• 25:58
  Not friendly with people. And so they're like, Oh no,
• 26:01
  they're great with other dogs and shove them into a situation
• 26:04
  And the dog's like, no, I hate other dogs.
• 26:06
  What are you doing? And it's like, well, clearly I
• 26:10
  can't trust my owner. Like I gotta fight for my life
• 26:13
  here. You know.
• 26:14
  Or people reaching in like oh is your dog friendly?
• 26:17
  I tell people she's not unfriendly.
• 26:19
  She'll probably hurt your feelings because she'll sit by
• 26:21
  you and pretend to be your friend.
• 26:23
  And then you reach down to pet her and she moves away.
• 26:26
  And it was like, I allow my dog to move away.
• 26:28
  Like if she moves away, she does not want to be pet.
• 26:30
  Do not pursue her. But I think a lot of people are
• 26:33
  like, no, you have to. No, my dog is friendly here.
• 26:36
  My. Pet.
• 26:36
  And my dog has to allow you to pet them.
• 26:39
  Yeah. And it's like.
• 26:40
  But there's some shame in that and some that's why I also don't
• 26:44
  trust people when they say my dog is friendly.
• 26:47
  That's OK. Thank you.
• 26:50
  She's like, I'll keep my fingers, thank you.
• 26:52
  I would like to keep my fingers intact.
• 26:54
  I would like to keep my dog's face intact.
• 26:56
  All of, but I do believe, OK, so part of this comes from a
• 27:01
  misunderstanding of dog behavior.
• 27:03
  So there's that's like a whole other subject.
• 27:05
  But I do. I do think you're right that
• 27:08
  there is an element of uncomfortable in situations, but
• 27:13
  people feel shamey. About.
• 27:14
  It and so they want their dog to be that social butterfly and so
• 27:21
  then, right? So then.
• 27:22
  We're pushing that on a dog and so that whole it's like that
• 27:29
  whole shame spiral thing there. I get it, I get it.
• 27:33
  And it's tough because we all I I think it goes back to like,
• 27:38
  hey, this is your dog is an individual and just understand
• 27:42
  who they are and just man, let let that flag wave like if your
• 27:47
  dog does not want XYZ, go on say it.
• 27:51
  Don't be afraid of it, Don't feel bad about it.
• 27:54
  You know, just be confident. I think that's why I don't care
• 27:57
  anymore cuz I'm just like, look, this is the way it is and you
• 28:01
  don't have to feel shame about it.
• 28:03
  It's just this is feel good and feel confident in saying this is
• 28:08
  who my dog is. And if we can all just open up
• 28:12
  more than everyone will have the free space to say, hey, this is
• 28:16
  who my dog is. And we can all learn to like
• 28:19
  respect those boundaries. And then the shame doesn't have
• 28:22
  to happen because we're all just being open and we don't have to
• 28:25
  feel bad. Yeah, yeah, because I know.
• 28:28
  I used to push Lucy beyond her limits at social events and then
• 28:32
  would just like try to cover up her behaving.
• 28:35
  She's trying to muzzle. Punch you because she's
• 28:37
  friendly. Like because we would not.
• 28:40
  Want people to feel? Uncomfortable in any.
• 28:42
  Situation at birth, right and I think.
• 28:45
  You know, like Heather, so good to be like, oh, my dog's over
• 28:49
  threshold. Looks like Lucy might be over
• 28:51
  threshold. Like we should leave, you know?
• 28:54
  But that's Heather. Today, Heather.
• 28:56
  Five years or 10 years ago, no, I probably would have asked way
• 29:01
  too much of my dog. There's a learning curve to
• 29:03
  that. We we know better.
• 29:05
  Now we do better. Yeah, But there's no shame in
• 29:08
  just saying, hey, my dog's over threshold, It's time for me to
• 29:11
  go. I can't imagine any one of my
• 29:14
  friends being like, really? Your dog's over threshold.
• 29:17
  Oh, how terrible. Like, what a terrible dog.
• 29:21
  Like, I don't know what we're thinking when we're like ashamed
• 29:25
  of these things. Like, oh, everyone will this
• 29:27
  very normal thing, I think because we like.
• 29:30
  Made this culture of like dog, dog, dog, dog, dog, dog.
• 29:34
  And so then that culture has turned into this, of course my
• 29:38
  dog can do everything and of course my dog can XYZ.
• 29:41
  And of course my dog can handle, you know, 7500 people at a
• 29:45
  fireworks display. And of course, of course, of
• 29:48
  course, you know, and also because we want our dogs with
• 29:52
  us. So then we create this like
• 29:54
  whole thing, but we also don't want to be like, oh, my dogs
• 29:58
  don't like blah. It's a, it's such a complex
• 30:03
  thing. OK, so to bring it back around
• 30:06
  the point of this whole thing, try your best if you fall into
• 30:10
  the shame spiral, have somebody to reach out to and to give
• 30:15
  yourself some grace, give your dog some grace.
• 30:19
  And I think most. Importantly, you're not alone.
• 30:21
  You are not alone. Absolutely not on this journey.
• 30:24
  Don't put yourself in a position where you have where you feel
• 30:27
  like you have to be alone in it. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 30:30
  Dog ownership is a journey and it's not just your dog's
• 30:34
  experiences with you, it is also their genetics.
• 30:37
  And the two of those things come together to make the dog that
• 30:41
  you're living with. So that goes back to being kind
• 30:46
  to yourself and not feeling that shame.
• 30:50
  You know, like you have to wear the scarlet letter because XYZ
• 30:53
  happened to you or to your, you know, with your dog.
• 30:56
  I just, I, I want us to feel more of a community and more,
• 31:01
  more supported in the things that we're going through so
• 31:05
  that, you know, if somebody comes to me and says, oh, I'm
• 31:09
  going through this, then I can say, oh, you know what?
• 31:12
  I know somebody. I didn't personally go through
• 31:14
  that, but I know somebody who did.
• 31:15
  And I really think that you guys should connect so that you can
• 31:18
  share. Wouldn't that be amazing?
• 31:21
  That would be awesome, yeah. To have that community and to to
• 31:24
  be able to openly share, yeah, the struggles and not feel
• 31:28
  judged. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:31
  So if you are going through something right now and you feel
• 31:35
  like you're in that shame spiral, know that you're not
• 31:39
  alone and that we support you. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:43
  Even though we may not know what you're going through, yeah, that
• 31:46
  there's a community out there that is not judging you and does
• 31:49
  support you, yes. And if you hey, this is not even
• 31:54
  like some silly like Instagram plug.
• 31:56
  Seriously, if you need support and you feel like you don't have
• 32:00
  that around you, hit us up on the DMS. We will chat with you.
• 32:04
  And you never know, you might find some community in US or
• 32:08
  someone we know that is going through something similar to
• 32:11
  you. But please just like be kind to
• 32:14
  yourself and, and take care of yourself and take care of your
• 32:18
  dog and take a breath. Take a breath.
• 32:21
  Take a. Breath.
• 32:22
  That's the end for tonight. We appreciate everyone listening
• 32:26
  to us go on. We just felt very.
• 32:28
  Passionate to let people know that so many people are going
• 32:32
  through something similar without without you knowing it.
• 32:35
  So I think we just both feel very passionate about making
• 32:39
  sure our community feels supported too, and no one's
• 32:42
  alone. Yep.
• 32:43
  So all right. So thanks for bearing with us,
• 32:46
  guys. Yes, thanks for bearing.
• 32:48
  With us as we unload our souls onto the podcast floor and hit
• 32:54
  us up we are at sometimes there's side eye on Instagram.
• 32:58
  And if you like this episode, Christy all already gave you the
• 33:01
  lowdown. Share us, review us all the
• 33:05
  things and we are dropping your episodes every other Thursday.
• 33:09
  So thanks for taking your time with us and have a great night.
• 33:13
  Bye.