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The Great Cookie Controversy · Outspoken the Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Kate Torber.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I'm Sophie Torber. And I'm Amy Torber.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: And coming up on today's show, the intense backlash from
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift's Encore and the TikTok cookie drama dominating our feed.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: But first, Veruca Salt has given birth to twin boys.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: The Australian influencer announced the news on Instagram, sharing photos
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: of her adorable babies. Now, this news was met with
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: great fanfare, and I haven't seen a response like this
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: in such a long time, Kate. Yeah, the Instagram posts
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and subsequent TikToks have gone absolutely viral with views in
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the millions, and that's because this isn't your typical influencer
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: birth announcement. Not only did Veruca give birth to twins,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: but her path to get to this point has been
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: incredibly difficult. So, Two and a half years ago, she
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: tragically lost her first son, Cash, to SIDS at six
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: weeks old. And since then, she's been very open and
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: raw with her audience about her grief. I have to say,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: seeing Veruca with those two babies on her chest looking
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: so happy really made me smile.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was beautiful to see.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I saw she was smelling them and saying like, oh,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: this is the beautiful newborn scent.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think whether you love her or you hate her,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: it's impossible not to be happy Yeah.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: When I think what she's been through, it's actually unimaginable
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: as a parent.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: So I'm so happy for her.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: And over the last few years, she has been very
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: vocal about the fact that she would like to have
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: another baby. And she even underwent fertility treatment in the
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: US in May last year, which was financed by a
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: GoFundMe page that she set up. I know a lot
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: was said about that at the time. Now, the treatment
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: didn't end up working, but it seems like this was
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: meant to be because despite being on birth control, she
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: ended up falling pregnant to a guy called Charles while
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: she was in the U.S., It's quite the story, isn't it, Amy?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: We've discussed it on length on the show before, but
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: for any new listeners, this time last year, it was
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: wild to think about, but she actually got married in
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: a shotgun wedding in Vegas to a guy she met
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: two weeks earlier. Digi Premium was his name. I'm sorry,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: but that's crazy to think that that.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Was a year ago. Like that doesn't seem that this
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: year is going so quickly.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Now, unsurprisingly, that marriage only lasted 10 weeks, but created
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: almost 10 months of incredibly entertaining content.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: For Veruca's TikTok. Yeah, she took one for the team there.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: And also I'm guessing her bank balance would have done
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: pretty well out of it because she's now on the
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: US TikTok creator fund and her videos, like they go
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: absolutely viral, like millions and millions. I wonder if she
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: still earns money from that now that she's back on
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the Gold Coast because she gave birth in Australia. But
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: while she was stuck in the US dealing with this divorce,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: that's when she fell pregnant. So she was actually dating
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: two guys casually at the time and spoke about having
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to do a paternity test. to determine who the father was. Unfortunately,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: it wasn't the guy that she was hoping for, but
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: from all accounts, he's been incredibly supportive of moving to
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Australia to help raise the boys. Well, that was the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: last I heard. I don't know if there's been an
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: update since then. As soon as I saw that she'd
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: given birth, I was like, I need to know the
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: names of these kids. And I was expecting her to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: do the typical influencer thing where she holds off and
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: doesn't share the names, but Legend that she is, she
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: dropped them. So the names are Storm and Zion. I mean,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: people who've listened to the podcast for a while will
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: probably know they're not the sort of names that we
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: would typically choose for our children. We like traditional names, but,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: you know, go off if that's what you want to
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: call them.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I remember Veruca putting a call out on her TikTok
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: after she found out she was having boys for name
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: suggestions because she said, look, I don't have any names
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: that I like. I use my only name on my firstborn, Cash.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: So I need some more names. She said at this rate,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: they're going to end up having girls' names. I would
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: like to know how the names came about and why
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: she picked them. I'm sure that TikTok is coming. One
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: thing I also need to know more about is this
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: manicure that Veruca had during labor because in her photo
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: dump when she announced the news she'd given birth, one
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: of the photos was her getting her acrylics painted. And
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I was so confused because she captioned that picture, What
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: girl you know getting a French tip during labor? Now,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I know it's not an uncommon thing for women to
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: put makeup on or do their fake tan like Indy
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Clinton was doing, but presumably Veruca had a C-section. So
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: what part of labor was she getting her nails done in?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Did she have a long wait beforehand and maybe got
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: it done?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Like she wasn't officially in labor.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like we need more information on this. It
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't make sense.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: This has gone far beyond just a cookie review.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: A heated dispute over a cookie review is dominating TikTok,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: with users being urged to pick a side. Dubbed CookieGate,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: the latest online controversy centres on TikToker Ruby Rose's viral
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: cookie business.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: And a young customer.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Now, the drama has flooded for you, Pages, with many
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: baffled that an 8.5 out of 10 review allegedly prompted
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the business to threaten legal action.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Doesn't this just have Gen Z written all over it?
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to lash out at the younger generation,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: but we all know they can't take criticism on board.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Very well, can they?
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: This is kind of reminding me of the Nagi-Brookie caramel
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: slice drama from 2025, but even more petty, if you'll
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: believe it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Now, let's get into the main players. The first is
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: the Cookie Club.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So, That is an online cookie business run by sisters
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Ruby Rose Demiroski and Rachel Grundy. Now, Ruby is a
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: TikToker with over 91,000 followers and over the years, the
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: 18-year-old has built a following of food and lifestyle content.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: She first gained traction when she started sharing about her
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: recovery from hypothematic amenorrhea alongside her What I Eat in
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: a Day videos. Now, as of this year, she is
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: predominantly known for her cookie content. That's all she posts
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: about now. And In May, she went viral when she
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: asked her followers if she should relaunch her old cookie business.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: So she shared a batch of Biscoff white chocolate cookies
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: that she just baked, and people literally went nuts for it.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: This video clocked up 12 million views. I don't get
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: how this happens. You mentioned Brookie at the start of
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the episode. She went viral for sharing her cookie recipes,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: which has led on to her having her own bakehouse.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: But I kind of thought we were past the point
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: of everyone just baking nice looking cookies and going viral.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Like how does, how does she get the cut through?
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason with TikTok. Like sometimes
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: the weirdest video will just go viral. But is it
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: something about her that's really likable? Because her content has
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: appeared on my For You page. And I had to
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: do a double take when I saw how many views
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: it had on it because To me, this might make
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: me sound old, but she looks so young. And I
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: was like, who's this young girl? And why is everyone
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: buying her cookies? Because she has a very young voice
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: as well. Like she's very softly spoken. Well, she's 18.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily know if the appeal is her. I
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: think it's more so the cookies. They're pretty aesthetic looking.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: They're chunky.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: There's lots of different lollies and chocolates in them. And
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: they come in a range of different flavours. They also
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: are being promoted as being nut and gluten-free, which is
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: important to this story.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: We'll get into that in a second. But they're very.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Similar to the hugely popular American crumble cookies. So the
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: girls offer build-your-own boxes, and they really encourage customers to
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: create taste test videos. I think that's the answer to
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: your question, Kate. I think they've gone viral based off
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: the crumble cookies.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: The weird thing is.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I have seen so many of this girl's videos and
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is just me being a germaphobe,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: but anytime I see people baking cakes or cookies or
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: anything from their own home, I'm always like, I don't know.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: I just would, I don't want to see it. Like
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I'd rather just see the final, the final product. I
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: think this is what also appeals to people is that
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: they post a lot of behind the scenes content.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: So they are making these cookies from their.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Home and she revealed that in one day she baked
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: a thousand cookies. So this isn't in, as I said,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: a commercial kitchen. This is happening at home. And she's
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: showing herself waking up at 5am to bake the cookies,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: working well into the evening.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: How is that even possible?
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Because people like Brookie are baking probably that number of cookies,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: but they're using industrial machines. Well, this is an issue
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: that comes up far later in the story. So we
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: are going to get into that in a moment. But
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Before we dive into the review drama, we need to
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: bring listeners up to speed with the first lot of
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: controversy that kicked off in early September. So Rachel and
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Ruby found themselves embroiled in an online dispute over their
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: cookie business's name. So when Rachel first started selling cookies
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: in 2025, she called the business Melted.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't quite have the same ring as
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: the cookie club. Also, it doesn't really make sense.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Like Melted makes me think of ice cream or chocolate.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I think a melted moment.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Because she melts a lot of chocolate over the top
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: of the biscuits, I assume.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: So she relaunched the business as The Cookie Club.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: And I need to point out because this is an
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: audio platform that cookie is spelled with two E's because
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: she clearly looked it up, saw that the normal spelling
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: of cookie was taken and thought, fuck, I really like
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: that name.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I still want to go with it.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Interesting decision when you think about SEO. I used to
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: work at SEO companies back in the day and I'm like, hmm.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she's hardly got a website. She does all
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: of her marketing through TikTok. Very true. How old do
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: you sound? That's the thing.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Gen Zers don't need to worry about SEO. They just
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: need to worry about whether their videos go viral. Now,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: the reason why there was an issue with this name
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: is because it's very similar to the cookie club spelt
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: with a K that's run on TikTok by mum of two, Kayla,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: who lives in Perth. Now, she launched her cookie club
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: business in March 2025, and she only became aware of
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: the girl's business when she started getting tagged in all
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: of these negative reviews. And due to the similar names,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: people mistook Kayla's business for Ruby and Rachel's business. And
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: in the reviews, Kayla says that customers were complaining about
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the long delivery time. So she created a TikTok, which
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: has since gone viral, sharing her frustrations over the very
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: similar name and pointing out that her business is a
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: separate entity.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to what she said.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: If there's another Aussie business and it's the same category
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: as you, it has got to do with cookies, choose
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: a different name because we're online and we're Aus wide.
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: So I don't know if this is going to make
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: sense to some people, but I just need to let
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: all of my cookie besties know, which they already know
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: because they order from us. We post ASAP. You pay
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: for express postage. You get it express postage. Whatever you
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: order is what you get and you love them or
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: you love them. And it's just me. I'm a mum
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: of two and we're just not associated with the other people.
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: So I just need people to know because this shit
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: is like stressful. Like, oh my God, choose a different name.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I really feel for Kayla because she's already on the
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: back foot a little bit because her business has less
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: followers than Ruby's. She's got 1.8 thousand compared to 91 thousand.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Then she's getting these negative reviews, which she says should
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: be for Ruby's Cookie Club.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: It'd be very frustrating.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Now, following Kayla's video, which received over 155,000 views, it's
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: been alleged that Rachel and Ruby threatened her with legal
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: action if she didn't take her video down. This is
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: despite the fact that Super Sleuths allegedly uncovered that the
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: girls hadn't yet registered their.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Company or business name.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: It appears as though Ruby was operating as a sole
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: trader and only allegedly registered the company and business name
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: following Kayla's video. So we're guessing it's your typical influencer
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: legal threat where it's not worth the paper it's written on.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: But the crazy thing is, if you look at the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: prices on TikTok and on their website, each cookie averages
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: out to be around $ 6. And if they're selling a
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: thousand cookies a day, they're making $ 6, 000 potentially. Obviously, There's
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: costs involved with all of the ingredients, but that's a
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: lot of money.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Like I'd want to be registering this business very quickly.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I want to know where the parents are in this.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know she is of legal age, but
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: clearly she's living at home using her parents' kitchen to
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: cook these cookies. If anything actually goes wrong in terms
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of OH & S safety and all of that sort
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: of stuff, surely it falls on the parents then. Wouldn't
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: they want to make sure this is all set up properly?
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I have so many questions about how this business has
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: been operating for the past four months. Getting back to
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Kayla from Cookie Club with a K, It was quite
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: telling because four days later, she announced that she was rebranding.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Her business to Love You Doe.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: So clearly she didn't want the negative reviews affecting her
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: brand reputation. I think people should get around her. Well,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: she's clearly done the right thing. She's probably pretty chuffed
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: right about now that she changed the name because it
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: would be terrible to be brought into this recent drama.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Well, Kate, let's get into that drama.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: So it all kicked off when the Cookie Club began
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: receiving negative criticism online about not being able to keep
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: up with the demand. And this was due to just
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: how viral these cookies had gone.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: They couldn't make a thousand cookies every day. No way.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And also people were angry because they weren't capping orders.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: So they just continued taking them. Some customers even alleged
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: that they waited over four weeks to receive their cookies.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, by that time, there's a new cookie sensation online,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: You're kind of over it.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: What I've never got about people ordering cookies online is
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: aren't they stale by the time that they reach you? Look,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I'm going to toot my own horn a little bit.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I have to say, I think I'm pretty good at
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: making cookies. Just waiting for some positive reinforcement.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: You are very good.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Your chocolate chip cookies are amazing. I like to think
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I'm good at making cookies. Like I will see videos
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: like the cookie clubs and go, oh, I could do that.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: But there is quite an art to it.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: So you have to make sure that the cookie dough
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: is very chilled and you also have to make sure
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that the cookies aren't in the oven for too long.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: And then when you take them out, You have to
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: give them time to set, I think for around 10
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: minutes on the tray. So how do these cookies taste
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: any good when they've been sitting around an Australia post,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: even for a few days?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Evidently, they don't because they haven't been receiving great reviews.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Now, one of those people who.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Decided to share a review was customer Alyssa Wood. Now,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: straight off the bat, Alyssa explained that she had been
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: waiting almost a month for the cookies to arrive.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to some of what she said.
• 13:59
  Speaker 6: So we got the viral cookie club cookies.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I needed to try them out.
• 14:04
  Speaker 6: Did have a bunch of issues with them. I'm not
• 14:08
  Speaker 6: even gonna lie. It's been one month tomorrow since I've
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: ordered these. There's my order. Like I truly understand that
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: they're a small business and that their business has gone
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: viral and stuff, but like no communication, like a lot
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: of promises that like weren't met. They did say that
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: we would get them by Father's Day. Father's Day was
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: how long ago? They would say, you know, like it's
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: been shipped, but it obviously hasn't been shipped.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And she was trying to be diplomatic and point out
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: that she understands that they're a small business, but it
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: was clear that she was annoyed by the way. And
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: so would I, because If these were supposed to arrive.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Within a week and it's from some small online.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: TikTok business instead of a brick and mortar store, you
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: would start thinking, have I been scammed?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Like what is going on here? Particularly if there's no communication.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: And also I feel like the appeal of these cookies
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: right now is the fact that they have gone viral.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: So people are obviously wanting to jump on and do
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: their own taste test reviews for TikTok.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I still don't get it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Are people just ordering them because they're intrigued what they
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: taste like? And as you say, want to do a
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: TikTok taste test, or are people actually ordering them for
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: events that they're holding? Because if they're, you know, actually
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: wanting them for a specific event, then that is not
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: good at all. Yeah, I mean, I think that this
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: was pretty reasonable feedback that she was annoyed that it
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: had taken four weeks to get to her. Let's dive
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: into the actual taste test element because I think she
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: was pretty fair in what she said.
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: Okay, try the best one. Are you just breaking it
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: or not breaking it? Save half, that way we.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Can have it later.
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: That's good. Okay, so we just microwaved a little bit.
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: It still tastes really good. Try the like Freddo Frog one.
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: This one's alright. This one is just it microwaved. Mmm.
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: That one's better hot. This one tastes so good when
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: it's microwaved. The cinnamon one? It's better microwaved.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: 10 out of 10.
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: Now I'm going to try the Oreo one. Alright, and
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: we've just microwaved it. Oh, it's really dry. Mmm, that
• 16:11
  Speaker 6: one tastes amazing microwaved. Okay, now we're gonna try the
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: M & M one. I'm not a big M &
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: M fan. I rate that like a five out of 10.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: It's right.
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: Seven out of 10 microwaved. One more, just the chocolate
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: chip one, I think it's called. Okay, we just microwaved it.
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: Not my favorite. This one was pretty good just because
• 16:31
  Speaker 6: it had the most chocolatey stuff in it.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: This one's... And the best stuff.
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: Okay, this one I think was my favorite, the cinnamon one.
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: I did really like the Biscoff one.
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: So, overall, I.
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: Would rate them a good, like, honest, like, 8.5 out
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: of 10.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: As a cookie, like a 7.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: That was our review. Except for the wait time, having
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: to wait a month, the cookies were all right.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Bye, guys. Now, that audio was a little bit long,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to include the whole taste test in
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: to give context to what Alyssa and her friend actually said.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, overall.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: She was pretty positive and 8.5 is a great score.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I think Alyssa committed a cardinal sin. You don't heat
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: up the cookies in the microwave. I feel like you've
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: got to put them back in the oven so they
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: get a bit more gooey and crispy.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Anyway, that's my side note.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: But clearly something needed to be done because these cookies
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: weren't tasting very fresh. What's crazy about this whole drama
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: is it's literally blown up over nothing. Like as you said, Sophie,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: 8.5 is an amazing score to give a cookie. What
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: these girls need to remember is This isn't like your
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: friends and family coming over to review your cookies and
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: someone being like, oh, it's a little bit dry. People
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: have paid a lot of money, like top dollar for
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: cookies that they have made at their house.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Like a box of these cookies.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Cost $ 39. 95 for six. Like this is rivaling the cost
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: of like Brookies cookies. Have you seen the cost of
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: choc chips at the moment though? Nestle bag, $ 9.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: That would make you 12 cookies. Who wants a fucking
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: cookie right now? Like we're talking about them so much.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Actually, how long is it going to take for a cookie?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I'm still making some this weekend. We should do a
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: cookie off.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Kate's been bragging about how great a cookie she makes
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and I'm delusional enough to think I could make a
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: good one.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: We'll post them to a listener to taste. Next week,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Kate's got cookie club with two Ks. Kate's cookie club.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Kate's cookies.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: The thing that I also don't get is if you
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: have actually marketed this business around this whole build your
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: own box concept where you select different cookies so you
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: can try them and give a review. Are you not
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: supposed to review the cookies? You're not going to fucking
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: love every.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Single one of them. You're going to like one more
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: than the other.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: As we said, is this just a bit of a
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: case of Gen Zers not being able to cop a
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: bit of criticism?
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: It reeks of that.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Now, following the review, customers started flocking to the comment
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: section complaining that they'd had similar experiences with lengthy wait times.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Some even said they'd waited as long as five weeks
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: to receive their cookies. Now, two days later, Alyssa alleges
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: that she received a DM from one of the owners
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: of Cookie Club. Demanding that she take down the review
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: within the next 24 hours or they would refer the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: matter to.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Their PR and legal team. Okay, sure.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: So hang on, you're telling me your company's been running
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: for four months and you didn't even trademark your name
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: but you have a.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: PR and legal team. Yeah, right. Well, this is the thing.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: So 18, come on, like the 18-year-olds. Do you mean
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: chat GPT?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I just feel so sorry for this girl who
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: like genuinely was trying to support this business by buying
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: their fucking cookies.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: So she.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: She opened up more about this awkward exchange with the
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: owners in the comment section. And after that, she claimed
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: she received a further message from one of the sisters saying,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: if it's going to be like this, you leave us
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: no choice.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Con will be in touch. And as Alyssa said, who
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the fuck's con?
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming that they're pretending that con is
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: one of their lawyers. And then if things couldn't get
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: more unprofessional, one of the girl's friends or family members,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: it's not clear what the exact relationship was, entered the chat.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: So in the comment section, the friend claimed that Alyssa
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: provided the wrong address, which resulted in the late delivery.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: And claimed that she was only providing half of the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: truth to her followers. Alyssa has since refuted those claims
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: and said that is not correct. There was no mistake
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: with the address and also said, oh, well, I suppose
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the 150 other people in my comment section with the
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: same issue with delayed delivery have got their address wrong too. Now,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Alyssa alleges that this friend or family member of the
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: girl's also threatened her in writing. So she claims, they said,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: if you want to play this game, I can start
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: making my own TikTok with receipts. Stop preying on the
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: downfall of others. Now, Alyssa said she was perplexed by
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: what receipts they apparently had as everything she has provided
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: is factual and correct. And there is no more to
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the story other than the fact that she did a
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: fucking review on these cookies. She finished by saying she
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: only wants good things for the business. And it's a
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: good product at the end of the day. She just
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: thinks they handled this situation very unprofessionally, which they did.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: If I was Cookie Club, I would be firing this
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: apparent PR team that they've got on board because this
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: is definitely not something that I would have recommended them
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: doing from a PR perspective.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they need to step away from ChatGPT
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: or just cancel their subscription.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: If you can believe it, things were actually taken up
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: a notch the following day when Alyssa alleged that she
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: was contacted by the Cookie Club's supposed lawyer.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Now, She did seem a little bit rattled in the TikTok.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: She didn't want to call the person a lawyer.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: She said that it was someone high up and that
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: until she got recommendations from her own high up person,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't be speaking any more on it. Does she
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: mean high up at the cookie club? I think she
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: just means someone legal. Like she needs to get more advice.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: She added that what they're accusing her of, she didn't
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: actually do. Now, if you guys can believe this, The
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: lawyer allegedly called her on no caller ID at 9pm
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: at night. I mean, you couldn't get any more clues
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: that this isn't an actual lawyer. Lawyers don't also call
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: over matters like this over supposed defamation.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: They would just be sending you.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: A legal threat via email.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: A cease and desist.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: The thing I can't stand is when people use legal
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: jargon or pretend lawyers to bully other people into silence?
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: It was intimidation. Well, in the comment section, a lot
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: of people were guessing that maybe one of the girl's
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: family members was posing as a lawyer. Now, three days later, Ruby.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Addressed the situation on her TikTok for the first time.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: She captioned the video, enough is enough. And over the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: top of the video, it said, point of view, you're
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: choosing to stand up for yourself. Let's take a listen
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: to some of what she said.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: The last time I want to speak about this as well.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: Nobody is suing anybody over a cookie review. No one
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: has called anyone at 9pm a night harassing anyone. I'm
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: baking at 9pm a night, my dad works away, my
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: mum was with me, I only have one brother that
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: lives in the house, I don't know what this speculation is.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: I've never had an issue over someone not liking our cookies.
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: You're allowed to leave a review, you're allowed to have
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: your own opinion and you're allowed to not like the cookies.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: But what has happened over the last week has gone
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: far beyond just a review. People are now hounding other
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: people's reviews, attacking our business, making comments about Rachel and
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: I away. Even to the extent of screenshotting old photos
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: and talking about it and posting it publicly online, they
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: are saying that Rachel exploits her children. There has been
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: threats towards our business and even death threats and this,
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: this is not allowed. That is not criticism, this is
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: not a cookie review and that is not okay. This
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: has gone far beyond just a cookie review.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: I don't mean to laugh because she's obviously pretty upset
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: by this whole thing. And to be fair, like she
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: is now being trolled off the back of it, even
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: though I don't agree with the way that she has
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: allegedly dealt with this situation from Alyssa.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: But it's just laughable that this is all.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Over someone giving a cookie company an 8.5 star review
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: out of 10.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Like let's get a grip.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I kind of like the pettiness of it though. Like
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I live, you know, we've been saying how there needs
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to be more drama online. Like this is kind of
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: the type of drama that I've needed in my life.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: To consume me. Like it's, it's, it's petty.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: It's, it's shocking because you wouldn't think that people in
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the baking industry, like you wouldn't think that there was
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: an issue over a fucking cookie. I do love how
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: unhinged it is, but there's something also deeply uncomfortable about
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: it as well. Like I felt uncomfortable watching that video.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's the age of the people involved.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, we're nearly 20 years older than this
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: girl and it's like, oh, you can just see all
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the mistakes.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: You would have made if you had TikTok when you
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: were at that age.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I can imagine lashing out at people and And being
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: silly enough to send fake legal letters.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And the parents not understanding. They're probably like, oh, what's
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: going on? They're like, oh, nothing, just a bit of drama.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: I kind of feel sorry for Ruby in a sense.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Not that I agree with anything that she's allegedly done,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: but as you said, she's literally a child and– She
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: sounds pretty hardworking. The fact that she's been able to
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: grow this successful business in the space of four months.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it seems like it's grown too quickly
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: for her to get a hold of completely. Now, in
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: this video, Ruby went on to say that they were
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: simply trying to protect their privacy and business. And that's
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: why she wanted the comments turned off Alyssa's video. She
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: claimed that their suburb and local council were stated. This
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: is the bit where she really lost me because she
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: went on to urge people to stop using the situation
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: for clout and said this.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: Not just speaking on my behalf, I'm speaking on every
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: influencer who has made to kept quiet. I just want
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: to go back to baking cookies, spreading positivity to the
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: community and having a fun page. Because that's what I
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: do best, that's what Rachel does best and that's what
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: we love. You don't have to like us, you don't
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: have to like our cookies. Rachel and I have spoken
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: about this situation very black and white and this is
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: all I am going to speak about it. Please remember
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: that there are real people on the other side of
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: the screen.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: What didn't you like about that, them making themselves the victims?
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: No, I didn't like her referring to herself as an
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: influencer and saying that she's speaking out on all of
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: the influencers who have been silenced because, I mean, that
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: automatically puts everyone offside.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like feel for the poor influencers. I
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: don't feel for you.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: You literally have a large platform where you can speak
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: directly to people who presumably like you.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: You have a huge platform to do that on.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: So don't say that you've been silenced in this when
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: allegedly you have tried to silence a young girl for
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: simply giving a review.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Like that's just where I find it so hypocritical.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I also think it was unfair to say that Alyssa
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: was using this situation for clout. How on earth was
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: she supposed to know that this video was going to
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: go so viral and end up in some weird, petty
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: dispute online? She is allowed to speak out and try
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: and clear her name because it seems like allegedly they
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: were trying to smear her name and.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Call her a liar.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: This is just your typical influencer MO though. When someone
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: calls you out and you go, oh, you're just trying
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: to chase clout. It's like, no, like this is a
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: thing with TikTok.
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: You can have a million followers and you can have
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: two and you still have your right of reply on
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: the platform. And the way the algorithm works is it
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: can get as many views as someone who has a
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: million followers.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing that was really interesting about.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: This video is it attracted over 400,000 views. And the
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: majority of people in the comment section sided with Alyssa.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: The top comment said, missing the whole point, which got
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: 7,000 likes.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: And another said, all this over a fucking cookie. And
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I tend to agree.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: This is actually a really good case study to look
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: at how to not respond to negative criticism because no
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: pun intended, but Ruby has literally let her cookie club
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: business crumble over this.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Kate, do they need you in the marketing team and
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: PR team?
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I am available and I am a cookie connoisseur, but- No,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's actually pretty sad, but it demonstrates just
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: how quickly your business can gain success from TikTok's algorithm,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: but then also come crumbling down because of it as
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: well and the way that you react. It's just been
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: terrible move after terrible move because this video that Ruby
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: put out was literally like waving a red flag to
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: a bull. Alyssa ended up hitting out at her again
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: on TikTok and she provided proof over the alleged phone
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: call that took place between her and the supposed lawyer.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Now, she was very clever.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Even though she recorded the conversation, instead of playing it
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: out loud on the TikTok, she transcribed it and then
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: read it out from a.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Little notebook that she had. This is what she said
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: went down.
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: Hi, is that Alyssa Brady? Me. Ah, speaking them. Hi, Alyssa.
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: We are a part of the legal team representing. We
• 28:17
  Speaker 6: wanted to talk to you. We just got a phone call.
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: We wanted to let you know that if some of
• 28:21
  Speaker 6: this stuff isn't taken down, unfortunately, we have to pursue
• 28:24
  Speaker 6: legal action. It's affecting our clients by well.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know what by well means.
• 28:29
  Speaker 6: Me, but I've done nothing wrong. Them, yeah, you're posting
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: quite a lot of things under the defamation act. There's
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: a lot of things you're doing in there. We really
• 28:37
  Speaker 6: genuinely want to give you an idea not to do
• 28:40
  Speaker 6: that just so it doesn't occur any problems.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Me, yeah, but I'm not doing anything wrong though.
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: Maybe if you could just send me an email of this,
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: that'll be fine.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: No shade at Alyssa whatsoever, but it just made me
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: laugh listening to that because there is no way that
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: was a real lawyer talking.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Like they would not communicate like that at all.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but in Alyssa's defense, this is a young girl
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: who's allegedly receiving a phone call late at night.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: You would assume that she would be very wired from
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: this drama already.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: She's probably spent her whole night on the phone reading messages, comments,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and it would scare you to receive a phone call
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: like this. The best thing that has come out of
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: all of this drama is the TikToks, the reaction TikToks
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: that people have created.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I need to play this one. This was my favorite.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: She goes on to try the cookies.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Go girl, love them. Pop off 8.5 out of 10.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: That's 1.5 out of being a 10 out of 10.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I don't understand what the issue is here. I don't
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: understand how it got to where it is now. She
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: ends up loving these cookies and she made a video
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: about it. She's telling everyone.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: This girl did the best summary of the situation and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I was living for it.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Like, again.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: Fuck.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I actually can't believe that there's allegedly legal action being
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: threatened because someone left an 8.5 score. The whole thing is,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: and Alyssa has pointed this out, it isn't actually about
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: the review. It's about the fact that 150 people in
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Alyssa's comment section agreed that they also had delays with
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: this product and that they were having an issue with it.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And it's the truth defense.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: If you're claiming defamation that all these people are lying
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and Well, they can easily go and get their email
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: and say, well, I ordered it this day and it
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: turned up four weeks later or whatever that they are claiming. Again,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: if it's not true and they did get their orders
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: within two days, then Ruby can prove that. So why
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: not provide receipts on her end? If all these people
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: are lying and all of that sort of stuff and
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: it's got to this point, I mean, personally, I wouldn't
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: advise putting receipts out at this point, but if you're
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: going down this route and it's turned into this absolute
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: shit show that it has, If I felt so vindicated
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: in what I was claiming, I would start showing receipts.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: But I question whether she has them.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, the sad thing is this saga doesn't look
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: like it's going to die down anytime soon because on Tuesday,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Alyssa shared a statement to her TikTok outlining where things
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: currently were at. She wrote, just to be clear, this
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: situation is not over, but what I'm dealing with now
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: is very different from everything that has happened online. This
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: is no longer about cookies, reviews, comments, or social media drama.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: It started with my own experience, but as I've looked
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: further into the situation, I've become aware of a number
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: of concerns surrounding regulations, food safety, labeling, allergen information, consumer rights,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: and the requirements of operating a home-based food business in Victoria.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: She continued saying that she has provided the information and
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: evidence she has to the relevant authorities, including the council
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: and the ACCC. She reiterated that a number of other
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: people have already reported the same concerns to the relevant authorities.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: So this isn't something being raised by one person. She
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: continued writing, I don't believe a business should simply get
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: away with potential non-compliance because it started with a review
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: or because people now see it as internet drama. I
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: didn't believe that from the beginning and I don't believe
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: it now. This has become far more than just a review.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: She finished by saying she's not trying to punish anyone
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: or drag the situation out. She's simply not going to
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: pretend these concerns don't exist just because they're a small business.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Alyssa, love your work, love what you're doing,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: but you are trying to punish them.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: And I actually am here for it because I love
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: revenge and retribution. And, you know, clearly she's pretty pissed
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: off about this situation. She tried to leave a company,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: an 8.5 out of 10 review. She's allegedly being threatened legally.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: And now she's saying, well, I'm a bit over this.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: And the thing is, she's got the internet backing her. Like,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: There's no one that works harder than a group of
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: people that are pissed off with an influencer or an
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: influencer related business.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: So she has people on the ground.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: So this is something that I would do in my
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: late teens or early twenties. If someone fucking wronged me
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: like this, I'd be like, nah, fuck you. Because clearly
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: she's had people sliding into her DMs with information. And
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: if what's being alleged is true, this is very serious.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: If Con from the Cookie Club's legal team is listening,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I just want to put out there, these are allegations.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: It has not been proven that anything that Alyssa was
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: saying is correct.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: No, it's just an investigation at the moment.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I was really interested to see what the basis of
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: these allegations could be. And the reason that Alyssa and
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: others would be contacting the council is because there are
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: certain restrictions around what many councils consider an appropriate home-based operation. Now,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: this small business has grown so substantially in the space
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: of four months to the point that Ruby, as we've mentioned,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: is producing a thousand cookies a day. So, This is
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: what may push her beyond what is deemed appropriate for
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: a home-based operation. It's quite interesting because before you actually
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: sell a single cookie from your house, you are required
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: to notify the council that you're operating a food business,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: and that is so your home can be assessed by
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: an environmental health officer first. Shout out to our best
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: friend whose husband works in this role. So they would
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: come to your house, determine things like, is there enough refrigeration?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Is there enough dry storage? Is there adequate bench space?
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Can equipment be appropriately.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Cleaned and sanitized?
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: And this is particularly important when you're making claims about
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: goods being nut-free and gluten-free. So it'll be very interesting
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: to see how this story unfolds. I guess we'll just
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: have to watch this space. It's been a week since
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift released the encore, an extended version of her
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: 12th studio album, The Life of a Showgirl. Despite the
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: release being a glorified bonus track drop, the four new
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: songs have got critics questioning where to next for the
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: most successful singer in the world. Now, Kate, the backlash
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: to these four songs has been massive and it's sparked
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of think pieces. Yeah, so The Atlantic criticised
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Taylor saying her music hasn't matured alongside her audience. While
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Rolling Stone pondered whether even Taylor knows what's next for
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: her career, a pretty bold statement about someone who's been
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: labeled a strategic mastermind.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: For the majority of her career.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: And also after just dropping four songs on an encore track.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Like what the hell? Yeah, that's what I don't understand.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: It's like, why are we treating the encore so seriously
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: as if it's a whole new album and whole new era?
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: It's literally four bonus tracks. I understand though why people
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: are confused as to why the encore even came about though,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: because when Taylor released Showgirl, she made this big point
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: about how it was only going to be 12 songs.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: And she even said in an interview that that she
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: couldn't add one more song to the album, otherwise it
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be the same album. Now, this was, of course,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: off the back of her being criticised for bringing too
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: many songs out when she released Tortured Poets. So there
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: are a lot of theories out there about why she
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: suddenly had a change of heart. Well, Taylor actually pointed
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: out that these songs were written and recorded after the
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: release of Showgirl. So she and her producers travelled to
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Sweden on what sounded like a celebratory trip, And that's
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: when they ended up writing more songs together. Yeah, I
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: think the strongest theory going around about why the encore
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: has come about is that this is an attempt to
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: get Showgirl back in the conversation ahead of the 2027
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Grammy voting. That's kind of backfired. I mean, if that
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: was the intention, it has backfired. Another theory that I
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: don't like and I don't think is true is that
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: she's trying to oust young country singer Ella Langley from
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: her record-breaking US number one run. I mean, it's like
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift is some evil super villain the way people
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: are acting about her. I'm just so over it. Am
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I naive enough to think like when I saw that
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: she was releasing new music, I was like, oh, she's
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: doing it for the fans. Well, that's why it's called
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Encore because, you know, when you go to a concert
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: and there's an encore, the people that sit around and
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: listen to it are the biggest fans who want to
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: hear more music. It seems like it's cool again to
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: criticise Taylor Swift and it's almost like we've been transported
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: back to 2016 and It is literally history repeating itself
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: with Reputation because 10 years ago, she was cancelled over
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: a feud with Kim and Kanye. She then, of course,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: disappeared for a year and came back and wrote Reputation.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: She then, of course, disappeared for a year, came back
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: with Reputation, which was again polarising.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: That album was a banger. I stand by that. I
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: loved it.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I have always loved Reputation and you saw so many
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: people doing a back flip at the Ears tour when
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: they suddenly saw it live and.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Were like, oh my God, this is incredible.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I also think that people are having a go off
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: the back of her highly publicized wedding to Travis Kelsey.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: It's as if there was a bit of a disconnect
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: there because she obviously had this huge wedding that people
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: didn't think was really her. Everyone feels like they know
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift better than she knows herself. And I almost
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: think because Taylor is so happy in her relationship with Travis,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: A lot of people seem to be like put off
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: by that. It's like, oh, all she thinks about is
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: how this man loves her. It's like, well, she's obviously
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: that's the stage of life she's in at the moment.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: She's happy in her relationship. I'm pretty sure we predicted
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: this would happen off the back of the era's tour
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: because you've only got to look at the timing of
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: when she released Showgirl. She was at both her professional
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: and personal peak. She got her master's back. She just
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: finished the biggest tour in history and she got engaged
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: to Travis Kelsey. I feel like this was always going
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: to happen. It's just a case of tall poppy syndrome. Well,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: maybe this is good for her music though. You know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: everything's been going quite well in her personal life. Maybe
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: she needs a bit of backlash to help.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Write those huge tracks.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Like everyone has been saying, especially like Cleveland has been
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: copping a lot of heat. And when I first listened
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: to it, I didn't love it, but I wasn't so
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: offended by it.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: That being said, I've had it in my head for
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: the past week. Like this is what happens.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Taylor puts out this music and everyone's like, I didn't
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: really like it because they're expecting some absolute bop that
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: like she has previously written or they compare it to
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: every one of her old bangers.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: And then slowly.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: It just gets in your head and then you find
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: yourself listening to it more and more. And then after
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: a month, everyone's like, I fucking love that song. She
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: knows us better than we know ourselves. I mean, this
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: is what happened with Showgirl. Everyone's like, I hate it.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: And then like a month later, everyone loved it. I
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: actually don't think that's going to happen with Cleveland. People
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: seem to absolutely hate it. And it's interesting because I
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: think Reputation had similar themes to Showgirl and the encore
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: in that She was singing a lot about score settling
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: and public scrutiny. And there's been a lot of discourse
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: online about people saying, oh, she's too old and too
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: successful now to be writing songs about revenge and proving
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: people wrong.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: It's like, to you people, I... say, you don't know
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Taylor Allison Swift. She loves being petty. And that's why
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I love her so much.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: And I actually find that rhetoric misogynistic and dehumanizing because
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: she's still a human. she's still going to be upset
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: when she reads negative stuff about her. And there's so
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: much negative stuff online about her. Okay. Maybe she could
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: focus on all the positive things people say, but I'm sorry,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: she's human. You do focus on the negatives and that's
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: what she explores in Cleveland. That being said, I have
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: to admit, I did laugh at some of the parodies
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: I've seen on TikTok. They're all like, my boyfriend loves
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: me so much and I love high school drama. And it's,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: It's almost like it's more fun at the moment to
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: pay this music out on TikTok. Like a lot of
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: people are getting views and clout for tearing her apart.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: It's not funny at all. It's actually awful.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Look, to be honest, I have found some of the
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: parodies slightly amusing. But what I don't find funny is
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: this constant attack on Taylor's age. Like I've seen so
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: many comments, and she's nearly 40 and she's still singing
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: about high school.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: It's like, fuck off.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: It's just sexist and ageist, to be completely honest. I
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: love to influence the Dylan Carlino. Summed up exactly what
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about this situation in a now viral TikTok.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to some of what he said
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: to his 1.4 million followers.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: The way that you guys turn on Taylor Swift should
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: be studied.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: You don't like the album?
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: Okay, move on.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: You don't like the encore? Okay.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: This is the same woman who wrote Folklore.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Then go listen to Folklore. Am I sitting here being
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: like Life of the Showgirl is my favorite album? No.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: I love Ruin the Friendship. I love Father Figure. But listen,
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: I've been here since debut. The way that you bitches
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: turn on her is cyclical. I think there's something really
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: cool about the fact that she's one of the most
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: famous people in the world and an artist, and she's
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: still genre-hopping. Who else is genre-hopping like the way she is?
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: And by the way, in a couple of album cycles,
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: because she's going to make more music. You guys act
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: like she's never going to make more music whenever she
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: puts out a new album. This is just the era
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: that she's in right now. And in a couple of albums,
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: you'll be like, oh my god, she's a genius. It's like,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: she's just trying things out. That's what's beautiful about being
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: an artist, that you can try other things. And if
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: you didn't like Life of a Showgirl, and then you
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: thought the encore was going to be anything different, you
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: obviously don't know her. She's incredibly petty and stubborn. So
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: obviously she was going to dig her heels in and
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: be like, oh, you didn't like it? Well, here's a
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: little bit more. fucker. There's something really cool about an
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: artist at that level not folding just because the audience
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: doesn't like it.
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: That's cool.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: She shouldn't fold just because we don't like it. It's
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: what she wants to make right now. Also, the discourse
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: about whoever she's dating or married to is influencing her
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: music is incredibly misogynistic. I just find the discourse incredibly boring.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: You're not a music critic. You're a parasocial fan.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Get a life.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like we need to clap after that. I
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: absolutely love that.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And I've been really feeling for Travis Kelsey in this
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: situation because he's been absolutely copying it. People are saying, oh,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Taylor's dumbed her music down to suit him.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: And all this stuff.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: It's like, I actually think she released Cleveland because she's
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: messing with us at this point. She is going to
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: next release a country album because it's been 20 years
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: since debut and it is going to be full of
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: the most beautiful, deep love songs about Travis Kelsey and
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: And everyone is going to eat their words. There is
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: also going to be a song on it that she
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: played for him at their wedding.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: That is my prediction. I love those predictions.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: And I've got to say, I also 100% agree with
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: what Dylan said. It's like, I didn't particularly love all
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: of those songs that she released, but you don't just
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: go tear her down.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's like none of her albums meant anything.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, she's suddenly, suddenly she's shit because she's
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: released four.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Songs that were okay. It's like, what about, I loved
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Life of a Showgirl.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: As you said, go listen to her other music if
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: you don't like this genre. Like what do you expect
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: her to do, release the same music? As Dylan said,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: she has music from so many genres. So if you
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: don't like this pop genre, go listen to Folklore. To
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: be honest, I didn't like Folklore or Evermore. They were
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: my least favourite albums because I love pop music. Did
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: I go on TikTok and be like, oh. Because I
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: personally don't like this genre of music, her career is done.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: And Joe Alwyn's shit and like how did– Yeah, exactly.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Joe Alwyn has negatively impacted her music career. People literally
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: begged for Glitter Pen songs after she released Tortured Poets
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: and said, oh, Tortured Poets was so sad and so
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: slow and I hated it.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Then what happened?
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Everyone sat with it and listened to it because you
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: don't like songs the first time you hear them. I
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: have never listened to an album and gone– fucking love
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: every song on this. Yeah. But it's so hard for
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: her now because she is so hyped up, like especially
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: off the back of.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: The era's tour.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Everyone, like anytime she releases anything, everyone is expecting so
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: much from it. So it's not shocking that she has
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: copped this criticism. Well, I hope all of these people
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: that have come out of the woodwork to slag her off,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: don't get tickets to her next concert. Please don't be
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: in the ticket master line. I do not want to
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: be competing for tickets against you because I'm sorry, frankly,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: you do not deserve the tickets. And I want to
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: remind people, after the backlash Reputation got, we had to
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: wait two long years for Lover to be released.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Do you want that? Like seriously, I think people have honestly.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Gotten greedy and they expect a new album every year
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: and a new rebranded era.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: That's not how it works.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Everyone keeps saying that Cleveland sounds either like a Christmas
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: carol or like the starting of The Office. And can
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I put it out there? Can we get a new
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Christmas Carol? Like instead of the songs that sound similar.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Could you turn Cleveland into a Christmas Carol?
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: That's what I want to know because I love Christmas
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Tree Farm. But now we're getting nothing because of all
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: these fuckheads. I know I just went off saying that
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: we're going to have to wait two years now for
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: another album, but I think the way Taylor Swift operates
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: at the moment, that she could literally– release a new
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: album tomorrow and that she might just be playing with
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: us at this point. And, you know, she gives everyone
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: what they want, which is the country album. Like who
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: knows what she is going to do. But one thing
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: I know is that she still is a mastermind and
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: there is reason for all of this. Well, that's where
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: we're going to leave things today. But if you want
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: to hear more from us, we drop a subscriber only
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: episode every Thursday for Outspoken Plus listeners. Amy, apparently you
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: and Sophie went quite rogue. I haven't listened to the
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: episode yet, but can you actually send me the link?
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Because we've been getting a bunch of DMs being like,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: oh my God, I can't believe you said that. That's
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: so funny.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: You were like, oh my God, what did you say
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: in this episode?
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Because you weren't involved. We're like, oh, I don't know.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: We just went a bit rogue. We just answered all
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: the questions super honestly.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: And Yeah, because you were answering questions that listeners had
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: sent in on Instagram.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very good listen.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: So go sign up if you do say so yourself. Well,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I laughed editing it. I actually thoroughly enjoyed editing it.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: So we're actually doing a part two. So if you've
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: got any more rogue questions you want answered, We'll be
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: putting up a question box this week on social media. Now,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: if you want to hear the full version and aren't
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: a subscriber, all the details to sign up are in
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: our show notes.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: This podcast was recorded.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: On the traditional land of the Kaurna people of the
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to elders past and present.