Latest / The Speak Life Podcast / The Age of Hitler is Passing — What Now? || SLP684

Transcript

The Age of Hitler is Passing — What Now? || SLP684 · The Speak Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This debate exposes the four-way fracture that is splitting the West.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Check it out.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_04: I think ultimately nuclear weapons serve a very useful purpose as being the final threat.
• 0:11
  unknown: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_05: Useful in what way?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: That that the whole Cold War strategy worked.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_04: Russia and America did not go to war because both sides realized that the other could wipe them out.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_05: They talked about using nuclear weapons, but is using nuclear weapons, the actual use of nuclear weapons, is that ever justified?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell I think it's justified in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, yes.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was justified in bringing the Second World War to an end.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, unquestionably.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_05: Unquestionably.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: Unquestionably, yes.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: I thought the number the number of lives are So it's justified to kill people who did nothing wrong.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we're not talking about people who did nothing wrong.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_05: Populations of crowded cities are not responsible for the war.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_05: Women and children get in shipping.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_05: We were not in a state of total war, actually.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_05: There were no Japanese troops on American soil.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_05: We were not in a state of total war.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_05: They had attacked American soil as you've got to.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_05: Four years before, and then they were losing, but we were not in a state of total war.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_05: And but I'm asking you a theological question, which is is it ever allowed, under the precepts of, say, Christianity, to kill people who did nothing wrong?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_05: To kill women and children.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: Does it meet Aquinas' um test of a just war?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: It does not.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: I think it does.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So Jacob Rees Mogg went on to Tucker Carlson and they debated largely about the concept of just war.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Tucker Carlson does not want war.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Jacob Reese Mogg says, well, therefore, we need to be strong, and the nuclear deterrent is a key part of that strength.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, they discuss World War II, because World War II is the reigning mythology in the West, has been for the last 80 years, and therefore disagreements about that will expose the four-way fracture that is splitting the West.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: My name's Glenn from Speak Life.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: We like to see all things through the lens of Jesus, and we'll see actually how this is indeed a theological question, and that that theological question breaks open our understanding of culture in the year 2026.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Give the channel a subscribe if you like trying on a pair of Jesus lenses, even if for a little bit.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what is the four-way fracture?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to get to that, and we're going to plot Jacob Reesemog and Tucker Carlson on this map.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this map will show you the terrain of the culture in which you live.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's watch a couple more minutes of this debate, and then we'll see how it fits into the four-way fracture.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell Does it meet Aquinas' test of adjustable?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: It does not.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_04: I think it does.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_04: How?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, are you a legitimate authority?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you are.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: Is it an important cause?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, because you have been attacked and you're defending yourself.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: And is it proportionate?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, because it actually shortens the duration of the war.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_05: Aaron Powell That's not the definition of proportionate.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: Proportionate means that you're responding in a way that is not grandly larger than the initial attack.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_05: Trevor Burrus The the um overalls, if I you punch me in the face, I can't shoot you.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: And you're saying that's the end of the war.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_04: Well I think it was justified.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: I think the use of nuclear weapons uh at the end of the second.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_05: But what you're saying as a Christian is yes, it is okay to children who did nothing wrong.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_04: Do you feel that that is a Christian position?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think it meets Aquinas' conditions of adjustable.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_05: Has any Pope since Aquinas confirmed that?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_05: Have there been any papal statements saying yes, under certain circumstances it's okay to kill other people's kids?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_05: Aaron Ross Powell The Church has preached for centuries that there are conditions of adjust war.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think there are any statements since 1945.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_05: As a Catholic, you think that the church endorses killing people's kids?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: Since 1945, there's only been one explicitly ex-cathedra statement by the Holy See, by the Fi Holy Father.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_05: The bodily assumption of Mary.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_05: I guess the question is if you are willing to kill noncombatants who committed no crime, if you're willing to murder the innocent, then in what sense are you better than the people you were fighting?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: That once a war is engaged with the whole point of what I'm talking about to go back to the opening part of your question.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_04: I will come back to it because it's to avoid war.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_04: And you avoid war by being strong.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: Once you're in war, you are justified in winning the war.
• 4:27
  unknown: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_05: So you can behave like an animal once the war starts.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: If the risk to you is sufficient, you can use nuclear weapons.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_05: I think that is morally justifiable.
• 4:36
  unknown: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think killing the innocent is ever justified under any circumstances.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_05: And I think the basis of Western civilization is justice for the individual.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_05: I believe that blood guilt and group punishment are anathetical to our entire civilization.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_05: They're the things we fight against.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's why the gulag was wrong.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_05: That's why what's happening in Gaza is wrong.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_05: It's always wrong to kill people who did nothing wrong.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_05: And if we don't think that, then on what basis are we administering our own justice systems that take such exquisite care to punish only the guilty?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_05: I don't even understand what you're saying.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's very difficult to have fought the Second World War without innocent people being killed.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if no one tried.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_05: But maybe I never understood why fight the Second World War in the first place.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's a very um fundamental question.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_05: Well, how about the First World War?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let's stick to the Second World War.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_05: No, let's start with the first, which was the first time.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well we were on the second.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um the the Second World War, Hitler would have taken as much as he could have done.
• 5:33
  unknown: Okay.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: As he was showing.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: And did you really want him to Well, Hitler said that 15% of Poland was once Germany, and it was given to Poland at the Treaty of Versailles.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_05: That was German territory with German center.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: That was his case.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: And by the way, that was true.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: Except the Polish borders had been cut out.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not here to be able to do that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just saying, I'm not here to defend Hitler.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_05: The idea that Hitler just randomly rolled into Poland is a lie, and everyone believes it because they know nothing about the actual facts.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_05: But the truth is, Germany had big pieces of it carved off, including part of Prussia, and it was given to this other country, it infuriated the Germans.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe it shouldn't have, but it did, and that was a justification for it.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_05: The UK had nothing to do with it at all.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_05: And they destroyed their empire and their country fighting this war that they still pretend was a good idea, but it wasn't.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: It was fundamental.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was the classic good versus evil.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: Has the UK benefited from it?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_05: We did the right thing.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_05: Is it a better country than it was?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_05: To have defeated Hitler, yes.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_05: So the UK is a better country now.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_05: It's a healthier country now.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: We'd otherwise we'll be speaking German.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_05: Who cares?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is where Tucker Carlson lost it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to defend Western civilization and saying there's no such thing as blood guilt that attaches to collectives.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the individual.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is what Western civilization is all about.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he was making a case for not having group punishments that mean the incineration of cities.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, Tucker Carlson is making good points, and Jacob Reesemogg is kind of on the back foot until the question of World War II comes up, and this is the point at which Tucker Carlson has lost the debate.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tucker Carlson was, in fact, correct to question whether the Catholic Church had anything to say about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, Vatican II had something to say about it without naming Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: In 1965, Vatican II said any act of war aimed indiscriminately at the destruction of entire cities or extensive areas along with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man himself.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is not an ex cathedra statement of the Pope, but it does set at least a pencil question mark over the use of nuclear weapons even in World War II.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: That being said, Tucker Carlsen has lost the debate because he seems indifferent to whether Hitler won or lost World War II.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that, I guess, is the reigning paradigm, that is the meta-narrative that actually has coordinated Western civilization for the last 80 years.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: To be seen to be indifferent to the victory or defeat of Hitler is something that puts you beyond the pale of normal discourse in the West.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So hold on to that thought.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna zoom up to 30,000 feet and get a sense of the four-way fracture of the West, where Jacob Rees Mogg fits in, where Tucker Carlson fits in, and where you and I fit in.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: We begin this discussion of the four-way split by having a look at Tom Holland, the historian, on the trigonometry podcast.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Here is how he talks about the four-way split.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: We are living through a great choke point in the history of this country.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: There are many, many paths, and many paths that that our society will take because it's it's fracturing in all kinds of ways.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: One path is that this kind of post-Christian Paddingtonism, if you want to call it that, it's like the head of the rocket.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's gone through the atmosphere, all the everything else underneath it has been jettisoned, and now it's got the power to blast through the solar system.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, all the stuff that's been jettisoned is all the nonsense about the Bible and Jesus and the church.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's just baggage.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: We don't, it's just baggage, it's gone.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: We have now blasted out and we're going forward, and secular principles, the liberal principles, are sufficiently self-evident, self-evidently right and good that it will sustain the future evolution and development of our society.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: Another option, fascism and Nazism, the default assumption among humans is that strength and might is right.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: As the experience of fascism becomes in Europe, becomes a, you know, dies out, lived experience of it.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: So the the kind of the bogeyman power of Hitler will fade.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: And people who are no longer bounded by Christian inhibitions or assumptions, I can imagine them turning around and saying, well, why shouldn't I do what I like?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very rich, I'm very powerful.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: Why shouldn't I do exactly what I like?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I suppose a third possibility is that people will return to the source and say, well, actually, maybe maybe I am Christian.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I, you know, maybe I should take this a bit more seriously than I have been.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: And there are kind of things, I think, tentative signs that that might be happening.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: What's fascinating is I would argue there are signs of all three of those things happening at once.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, and that's what I'm saying, is that all of these things might be happening.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, we will also have the growth of Islam.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: So that also provides a fourth option.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: But you're gonna get some fascists, uh, you're gonna get the eyes of Islam, you're gonna get these woke idiots running around ruining everything.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And what was the other one?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the resurgence of Christians.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the one I'm most happy with.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Here is what stands at the center of this four-way fracture.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's Christ and him crucified.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is the US cover of Dominion, Tom Holland's book from 2019.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the cross is really the fault line because at the foot of the cross, imagine a Roman soldier.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: A Roman soldier is thinking about strength and honor, and there is Christ, who is supposed to be the great God who is descending to the deepest depth in order to save the world.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And somehow, the victim, say Christians, is the victor.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so a civilization that had been built on strength is overturned by a civilization that is built on sacrifice.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in that sense, pre-Christian cultures are those that have not been impacted by the cross of Jesus Christ.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Into that category, we can put things like Viking society, which is all about strength and honor as well.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Even though Viking society is A.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: D, it is still very pre-Christian in that it has not spent time at the foot of the cross being shaped by God crucified into that same category.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: We can also put Islam, even though, again, it is A.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: D.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nevertheless, it is a culture in a civilization that denies Christ and Him crucified and has not spent any time kind of orbiting around that vision of the victim who became the victor.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so from pre-Christian to Christian civilization, you have a culture that orbits around the God man Jesus Christ, who unites heaven and earth, who unites grace the way things ought to be with nature, the way things actually are.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: You have a culture that lifts up the victim and has a place for the victim, and yet also has a place for strength and the exercise of strength that is for the sake of those without such power.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Christendom reigns for a very long time and shapes the moral sensibilities of the West decisively.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: How is Christendom eclipsed?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one decisive narrative that has to some degree eclipsed the Christian narrative is the World War II narrative.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the World War II narrative has great overlap with the Christian story, but it is also quite different from the Christian story.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Here's Tom Holland explaining it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And as people began to realize what had happened, particularly with the Holocaust, there was there was a kind of recalibration of our sense of of what evil is.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so we no longer needed the devil because we have Hitler, and we no longer needed hell because we had out of it.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so ever since ever since the um ever since the war, when most people in the West want to know what is right, what is good, they look at the Nazis and they do whatever the opposite to what the Nazis did.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a bit like um it's a cross between um you know Plato's parable of the people in the cave within the shadows, and and Nietzsche's parable of the death of God, but his corpse remains in the in the um in the cave casting shadows.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: What we're seeing is the shadow of Christianity.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: We look at Nazism and the shadow that Nazism casts tells us what what Christian values and ethics are.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: So enshrined at the heart of every Western society in the wake of the war is the utter conviction that racism is the ultimate evil and that the the weak should be careful, so there should be welfare states.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: And these have become the the um absolute foundations of the way that governments function and universities function and opinion formers function, and the the worst insult that you can give anyone is to say they're a racist or a Nazi.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so the post-World War II narrative has great overlap with the Christian narrative.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: But instead of having a great hero, Christ, you have a great villain, Hitler.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of being motivated by love for the savior, you have fear and hatred of the Nazis.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that is absolutely good and justified.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's different to found a civilization on love than on fear.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: On a pole star that you can follow as opposed to a pit that you must avoid.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And in the Jacob Reese Mogg versus Tucker Carlson debate, you see the power of the World War II narrative.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the conversation, Tucker was doing well until it appeared like he might be falling into the pit.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't want to sound like he's an apologist for Hitler.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody wants to sound like they are an apologist for Hitler, in a sense.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: That is the worst blasphemy.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: But for the last 80 years, I think Western civilization has had the Christian story running alongside a kind of a post-World War II story, and those two things overlap mightily.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: In 1948, you have the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which sounds like an affirmation of page one of the Bible and humanity being in the image of God, and we all have human rights.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: The language around human rights has a distinctively Christian genealogy to it, but the whole document is in the shadow of the war and the horrors that need to be avoided.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so the liberal settlement for the last 80 years has been Christian-ish, but it's been Christian-ish by wanting to oppose an anti-Christ figure who is Hitler.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It just turns out that simply opposing an antichrist does not actually restore you to Christ.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: But for 80 years, the World War II story has been strong enough to hold us together.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But Tom Holland always feared that there would come a time when that would no longer be the case.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: He said this to me in 2019.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: The risk with that, which I think we're slightly seeing now, is that what do you do when people turn around and say, Yeah, okay, I'm a racist, or yeah, I'm a Nazi, or I I don't want to let refugees in, or whatever.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: What resources then do you have to make this case beyond kind of screaming racist?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that I think is when you start to realise just how rooted in deeply Christian assumptions these arguments actually are, and how denuded the attempt to try and make these arguments is if you don't have this mythic resonance that Christianity brings them.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't use mythic in it as an insult, I mean mythic in the sense that this is a kind of deep rich.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: It it it transcends ideology, it transcends commandments, it it you know it transcends the drama that we live in and it's it's a it's it's drama.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so increasingly in the last ten years, I think we've been hearing voices that are less and less bothered by an association with the Nazis.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: It had been a law of internet discussion that any debate that goes along for long enough will lead to somebody being likened to Hitler, was called Godwin's rule, and the reductio ad Hitlerum has been a kind of debating tactic for many years, and yet in the last ten years or so, more and more people have been indifferent to being likened to Hitler.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, the entire World War II narrative can break down, and so you get this shift rightwards to the anti-woke, and the woke is what they accuse the liberals of being, and the progressive liberationist tendencies of liberal society on the left, as they have been ascendant, those who are anti-woke get sick of the authoritarianism and the imposition of diversity and equity and inclusion.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And those who are anti-woke are sick of Karen from HR telling them what to do, and they start to conclude that any interest in the victim, any interest in compassion or empathy, is simply a virtue signaling that needs to be exposed.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's the accusation from the anti-woke to the woke.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: The woke say back, what are you?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Some kind of Nazi?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And increasingly the anti woke roll their eyes and say that's not going to work anymore.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: We can question the World War II narrative without ourselves being Nazis, can't we?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the question for our debate between Jacob Reesemog and Tucker Carlson.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think Tucker Carlson is wrong, in fact, about aspects of history of World War II.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very alarming that he seems indifferent to the victory or defeat of Hitler.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like all bets are off when we turn hard right from the liberal World War II story.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we go from here?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what is at the heart of the fracture?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: The heart of the fracture is Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was the break from a pre-Christian society to a Christian society.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the lessons that we are to learn from Christ and Him crucified is precisely the debate that we are having on left and right, on the woke versus the anti-woke.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where to from here, I think Constantine Kisson has it right.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So what's fascinating is I would argue there are signs of all three of those things happening at once.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, and that's what I'm saying.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's that all of these things might be happening.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, we will also have the growth of Islam.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that also provides a fourth option.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you're gonna get some fascists, uh, you're gonna get the eyes of Islam, you're gonna get these woke idiots running around ruining everything.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what was the other one?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the resurgence of Christians.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the one I'm most happy with.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: All four things are happening at once, but as Constantine Kisson says, he hopes that it's the Christian revival that wins out.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: On Christ the Solid Rock, I stand all other ground is sinking sand.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to investigate more the solid rock of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, we've got a free course that you can do.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's called 321.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's the story of God, the world, and you.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to try on a pair of Jesus lenses and get to the heart of the Christian faith, go to 321course.com.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Start an account, it's totally free.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: We won't spam you.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: But whether you're a Christian or not, this might be the best way of grounding you in the true story of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that'll do us for now.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got this far in the video, it certainly deserves a like, I would say.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Please share it around the place and subscribe to us so that we can catch you on the next one.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: God bless.