Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Suspiria (2018) with Alissa Nutting and Alyson Levy

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Suspiria (2018) with Alissa Nutting and Alyson Levy · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechde Cast, The questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Beast start changing it with.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: The Bechdel cast. Hey, Jamie, Heyklin.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Sorry, that's mother Caitlin to you.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I'm sorry, I'm I'm definitely not a mother.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Also, no, no, yeah, it's it's in a way. We're
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: all mothers and we're all here at this dance academy and.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Something something World War two, it's something something Cold War,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: and it's all feeling kind of profound, isn't it.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: And we're witches. Surprise.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I mean that's not really a surprise. You figured that
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: out pretty early.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: The real question is why does Tilda Swinton look like
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: the six Flags guy when she's playing the I could
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I could not. I guess I went into the movie
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: knowing that she plays the psychologist, which great, But why
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: does she look like the six Flags guy?
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: She does as the psychologist? Or yes, yeah, I think
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: she looks more like the Six Flags guy for that
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: character who doesn't speak and stebs herself in the neck.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Oh that's true because that has the glasses element. Yeah,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: she's so versatile. That is Till the Swinton in that
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: role too, right, Yes, that one I think is more
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: obviously Till the Swinton. That would be an interesting piece
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: of clickbait to read is Till the Swinton characters ranked
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: by how much they look like the Six Flags guy. Sure, sure,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: she should play the Six Flags guy in a biopic.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Oh I'm not mad about it. Okay, hello, and welcome
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: to the Bechdel Cast.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that didn't pass.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: It well, yeah, six Flags, But I think if if
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: you're talking about the Six Flags Guy as played by Till.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: The Swinton, I think it does. But she's playing a
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: male character. I don't know. Six Flags Guy, tricky. Let's
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: get semantic right at the beginning of the show. I
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: think that's that would really hook in listeners. It's just
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: like Dakota Johnson hooks her vagina question mark. We'll get
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: into that later.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, the hooks. Yeah. Anyway, this is the
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlyn Derante, my.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast where
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: we look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: lens using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: for discussion. But Kitlin, what is that?
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Well, it's just a media metric created by queer cartoonist
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Allison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test, originally appearing
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: in Alison Bechdel's comic Dikes to Watch out For in
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: the eighties as a bit as a goof. It's since
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: been used as a popular media metric by people such
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: as us. But again, we only use it as a
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: jumping off point. Our version of the test is that
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: two people of a marginalized gender must speak to each
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: other about something other than a man, specifically the Six
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Flags guy, for two lines of dialogue or more preferably,
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: some narratively substantial conversation.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of movies don't pass. This one does,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: and so you know, you can just sort of wash
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: your hands of wondering. Passes very early and consistently, and
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: no one talks about the Six Flags guy. And that's
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: actually one of my bigger criticisms of the film. Yeah,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: but historically they couldn't. I think he wasn't, you know,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: a popular figure till the nineties. Let's get our guests
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: in here talk about two guests who love to expect
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: foor grotesque motherhood in a very different way.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: Indeed, yes, they are the creators of Teenage Euthanasia, which
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: is currently available to stream. It's Alison Levy and Alyssa Nutting. Hello, welcome,
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: I don't think they talked about any man in this
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: movie at any point alone for two lines in a row.
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: I am wondering if the six Flags guy is its
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: own marginalized gender perhow.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: And then what if Tilda Swinton actually is the six
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Flags guy? That was my like, do we know that
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: she's not?
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: We don't know that she's not.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: That would be a really good long con. It's like
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: when you learn that JK. Simmons is the Yellow Eminem
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: and you're like, what it all comes to? Oh, Kitlyn,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: I love that. I got to tell you that he's
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: been the Yellow Eminem for like at least ten years,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: probably longer. I yes, I know.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: It's also like when that one stormtrooper in The Force
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: awakens who has like two lines of dialogue and is
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: getting like force mind controlled by ray as she's like
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: discovering her powers. Is Daniel Craig what but you never
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: know because he's in a stormtrooper costume.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Good good for him.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: I find that fascinating personally.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Anyway, it's it's no yellow eminem for me, but I'm
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: happy for him. Yeah, that's a fun. Okay, Okay, we're
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: talking about Suspiria, the twenty eighteen adaptation by Oh God,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Italian name I am not, I'm gonna fuck it up.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Luca Guagnino, Y Guadanino, Ewen McGregor. Ye, just list of
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: names I've never said correctly, Luca Guadnino, most famous. It's
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: his first movie. I didn't realize this was his first
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: movie after Call Me by Your Name. It's kind of
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: a wild follow up, but obviously not the first adaptation
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: of this movie that was in nineteen seventy seven by
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Dario Argento. And will sort of talk about the like
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: changes made to the twenty eighteen movie, because it's a lot,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: it's about an hour's worth of their stuff.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: They're very different movies. Yeah, and I imagine we will
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: just cover the nineteen seventy seven Suspiria in a different
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: episode at some point.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's very it's very very different. Yeah, but first
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I guess with I would expand this to either Suspiria Alyssa.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Let's start with you. What's your history with the Suspiria
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: expanded universe.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: Okay, I do want to Like, I read that Tilda
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: wore a prosthetic penis when she played the German Psychoana. Yeah,
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: and that that kind of eclipses a lot of sort
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: of like what I I don't know thoughts I had
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: about the film. And there's a great gift of her
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: from this movie eating Wings. That's also just like a gift. Yeah,
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: I want to put out there if people haven't seen
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: that gift, like, you can send it. You can send
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: it for almost anything. It's kind of one of those
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: universal it's like, oh blood, you know what I mean,
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: Like any any situation can use Tilda eating Wings.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I loved.
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: I loved the original and was really excited for the
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: new one. I didn't I didn't expect it to be
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: as different.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: I guess I'll begin there.
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: But you know, I like being aroused and frightened at
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: the same time, So I'm a I'm a big fan
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: of both.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Sure, it's a horny movie and it's a scary movie.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: It's accomplishing a lot of emotions.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Check check Alison, what about you? Either Suspiria both very
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: uns well.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: I see like two horror movies a decade. I'm like,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: I don't like the feeling of being afraid. I don't
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: like the manipulated feeling of fear. But for some reason,
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: I did see this movie when it came out in
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: the theater, which again highly you know, not regular for
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: me to do, and I liked it a lot, which
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: also at the time seemed, you know, people just decided
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: they hated it or something, but I don't know, but
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: I liked it. And I watched it this morning at
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: kind of yap speed to Prayer for Today, and I
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: liked it at yap speed too. It's I don't know,
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: it's really beautiful. And I also think I didn't realize
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: how much mother stuff was in there actually, And now
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: that's probably why I liked it too, because that is
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: one of my more favorite topics.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Jamie, how about you.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: I had seen both suspir before, but not for a while,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: and I know that when I saw the Luca Guadnino one,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I was like, probably not fully paying attention because it's
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: streaming on Amazon Prime, which means if a movie's long
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: and it's streaming, I'm gonna be in and out of
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: the room. I'm gonna be peeing and not pausing. I'm
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: gonna be missing some things and not really worrying about it.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: So it felt like a fresh look at it. I'd
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: seen the ar gentle One I don't know when, but
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I remember, like, I don't know, like it's not really
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: doing much in the way of like subverting slasher tropes
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: as as much, but it's beautiful and the score rips,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: and I just remember liking, like, even though it wasn't,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: like whatever, doing much in the way of subverting any
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: sort of witchy tropes or whatever, because we've been talking
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: about so many witch movies recently that I feel like
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: on Witch Patrol, where I'm like, nothing really new there,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: but it just like the way it's stylized is pretty
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: incredible and really memorable, and so I liked it. I
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: rewatched it before watching the New Suspiria just to get
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: a full idea of like how complicated the new narrative
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: is in comparison, and I don't know, I feel like
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I'm I I was not expecting to be like mech
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: on this new one, and I am open to being swayed.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't really like it very much. I thought it
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: was like doing it's so weird because it's like art
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: whatever this show was airing when this movie came out.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: It's only five years old, but it already feels like
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: kind of funky to me, of like a male o
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: tour trying to craft a reaction to the me Too movement.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I think if I watched it in twenty eighteen, I
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: would have liked it more than I liked it now.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: But now it just felt like, oh yeah, that was
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: like the series, like the you know, stretch of a
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: couple of years where all of our male o tours
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: were like, don't worry you, guys, I get it and
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: like it. I don't know, like parts of this movie
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: were from certain angles. I really liked this movie. I
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: liked what it tried to add with like historical context
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: and like giving you more than just sort of your
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: standard slasher characters. But then there were other parts that
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I was like, what is he on about? What? What's
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: all this?
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: Then?
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like not loving this movie
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the way I was expecting to. Anyways, Caitlin, what's your
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: history with Suspirias.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: I saw the first Suspiria in the early two thousands,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: and I've seen it a few times since, and I
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: generally like it, although I find the story just sort
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: of like what is this about?
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Again? But which is there?
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: Mean?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: And they need new ones right right?
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: It's a tone poem, I would say, between like the
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: color scheme, the lighting, the score. You know, it's like
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: it's just sort of something you put on and kind
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: of like vibe to in a horror way, you know.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: And I appreciate that. The new one I find more
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: narratively compelling, because I feel like it tries to have
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: more of a plot. But I have similar gripes as you, Jamie,
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: as far as I mean, we'll get into it. But
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: I did see it in theaters. I was one of, like,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know eleven people who saw it because this
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: movie tanks.
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I also saw the theater the same show.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: It was just us.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I would have liked it better if
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I had seen it in the theater the first time, too,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: because it's like, it seems like it's the sort of
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: movie where it's like, if you're like in it, it
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: probably hits harder.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: That dancing too is really cool.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't know the dancing.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: And again, as much as I dislike horror, I also
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: dislike dancing, and so it like sort of doublely seemed
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: problematic for me. But no, I maybe like they cancel
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: each other out. But I liked all the dancing on
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: the big screen because the sound is really cool too
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: that you probably don't hear if you're like wandering around
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: your apartment watch it. The sound is pretty cool.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's cool stuff. I mean, there's there's things to like, certainly, and.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: The dancing's amazing. The costumes are incredible. It made me
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: realize that there's apparently a whole like subgenre of horror
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that's like ballet or dance horror. Yeah.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: Center parts, a lot of center parts.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, middle parts. Yeah. So I'm excited to get into it.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: I feel even though I watched the movie twice and
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: did a bunch of reading, I still feel underprepared because
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: there's just there's so much. There's a lot of lore
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: that was established by Dario Argento and Daria Nickelode who
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: coote the first Suspiria movie.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Is that correct?
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, So there's all this lore and then this Suspiria
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: movie from twenty eighteen, being set in Cold War mostly
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: West Berlin, and a bunch of stuff that I still
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: don't understand. Every time I try to learn about the
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Cold War, I read so much and I still do
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: not really quite understand it.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: Let me paint the picture for you. I'm just kidding you.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: That's fortunately the three of us are Cold War. Said,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I know, it's like we mutually figured. I don't know
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: as because I was texting you while I was watching
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the movie as well. I'm like, I just it's just
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: not coming in. It's not coming in.
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, I actually can paint the picture a tiny
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: bit of the Berlin part, if this is If this
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: helps at all, I've been to Berlin a lot of
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: times and I had friends there, so I think why
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: it's set there and why it was interesting to me,
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: and the whole bider monhaff stuff. It's like, you know,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: the seventies in Germany, they're like the people who were
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: born after the war are like confronting. They're disgusting parents
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: who were Nazis, right, so they're all like coming of
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: age and realizing they have to confront this. Like not
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: in some theoretical construct but with their actual families and
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: so that it's like there it's like a whole seventies
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: like apocalyptic you know, political thing or everything's like busting apart,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: and there's like actual terrorists that are you know, creating havoc.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: And then the whole East and West is this like
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: crazy schism, right you guys know, like you couldn't go
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: from one to the other. It's like families are divided again. Yeah,
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: and then the whole the whole East part, like when
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: he goes there. The other thing I thought was kind
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: of cool is because it's famous for like the Stazi,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: which was like Google before Google, like irl Google, where
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: there's like people keeping track of every single thing you're doing,
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: what you're saying, You're being recorded all the time, but
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: there's like actual humans writing this down, where did she go,
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: who she's meeting with, and everyone's telling on each other.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: So it's like this absolute state of paranoia, which I
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: think is what the therapist thing is about, but it's real.
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: It's like how this is real. There really are riches,
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: and there really is this entire state of paranoia that
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: they're all living in. But that's you know, that was
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: why I thought it was set in the Germany this time.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's that's super and I think that like
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: it it. I thought it was a cool concept for
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: them to set the twenty eighteen movie in Germany at
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: the time that the original came out, with like the
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: benefit of knowing what happens and like how to Yeah,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Like there's so much talk about generational trauma through like
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: World War two specifically, and also just how generational trauma
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: exists between mothers and daughters, and I like all of that.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: But why don't I like this movie?
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Let's explore I wouldn't even convince you that you should.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: You know, I don't know.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I doesn't like And maybe it
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: was just too long, but I don't It's very long.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: And not very quickly paced.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: There was a post credit sequence, yeah, which I don't understand.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: It's doctor strange ass approach.
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: To the message.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Well, let's take a quick break and then come back
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: for the recap. Here is the story, which is set
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: in mostly West Berlin in nineteen seventy seven, and we
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: meet a young woman named Patricia played by Chloe Grace Moretz,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: who pays a visit to her psychologist doctor Klemper, who
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: is an old man, although it's Tilda Swinton in makeup,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: one of the many characters the Six Flags guy, some
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: would say, one of the many characters that Tillda Swinton
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: plays in the movie. And Patricia tells him their witches,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: although we don't know who or what she's referring to yet.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: We also hear Chloe Grace Moretz say the iconic line,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: They're going to eat my cont on.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: A plate, my hollowed out kunt on a plate.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's a fun crossed it, you know, as like
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: that's the fun that maybe is the first time that
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: sentence was written down, and I like that.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm in it. Now.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Did you get points for that?
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: Right? I will. I'll be as a defense attorney, right, Like,
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: I mean, come on, like, how many points for that?
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I mean?
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: Even if it's even if it's do anything else?
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, on a plate?
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: The steaks are high.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Okay. So then we cut to a Mennonite family in
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: rural Ohio. We meet a young woman named Susie Banyon
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: played by Dakota Johnson as she sits by the bedside
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: of her very ill mother. Then we cut to Susie
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: in Berlin. She arrives at the Marcos Dance Company for
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: an audition, and even though she has no formal dance training,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: she gives an audition that impresses the people in charge,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: one of them being Madame Blanc also Tilda Swinton, and
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Susie is accepted into the company in a building where
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: like the dancers also live, so like the performances are there,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: the dormitories where the dancers stay are there. It seems
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: like all of the matrons who are like faculty and
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: staff of this place, everyone lives there.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Right, and there's when she gets in, there's sort of
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: this like definitely does not appear in the Argenta version,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: but it's like taken. They take a moment to emphasize
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: that all of your needs are taken care of, and
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: that a woman's financial independence is not lost on them
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: and is very important to them, and that is originally
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: what makes I mean Susie almost bursts into tears upon
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: hearing that, because it seems like she grew up with
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: not very much. Yeah.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Then Susie meets a few of the staff. There are instructors, administrators,
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: a house mother. Again, the matrons not to be confused
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: with the matrons of our Matreon.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, Patreon has a patriarchal plan that we don't like. Yeah,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I would say that about maybe one third of the
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: women who run this school are till the Swinton, yes.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: But well and the rest the rest are more conventional hacks,
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: which is again I'm pretty into that. I'm really into hagc.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Or in general.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: It's a wonderful and diverse body type of hack.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I do like, yeah, like all of the like older
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: women in this I mean I it reaches a point
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: sometimes where it's like, I don't know, but as far
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: as the administration goes, I'm like, oh, yeah, women that
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: are like look their own age and are not constantly
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: bilittled for it.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeeha. Imagine all are welcome at the dance company.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: You assume they're all ex dancers. So they seem they
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: seem pretty lithe is that the right word. They're pretty
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: they seem like they can move pretty good. It's been
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: kind of jealous of that.
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: But anyway, there's the witchcraft too that probably.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: That's probably helping that keeps you limber.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if I could, I would cast spells on myself
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: so as to not wake up in pain every morning. Anyway,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: So Susie meets the Matrons. She also meets another dancer
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: named Sarah played by Mia Goth, and they become friendly.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: I like Mia Goths so much. I forgot she was
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: in this movie.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: She's great.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's an incredible like horror actor, specifically, like, I'm
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: excitedly like.
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: One of the best.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I just saw Infinity Pool.
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: Oh, she's a standout, beyond beyond standout.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: And I know that people really like ex and Pearl,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: neither of which I've seen yet.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: But afraid to afraid, I really liked of the two.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I loved Pearl. I thought Pearl was awesome. We should
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: cover Pearl at some point. And she was great in Emma. Anyways,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I hope she's well.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: I hope she's well.
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: She's well, I hope she's well.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Also worth noting that everyone at the dance company, the dancers,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: the matrons, et cetera. Everyone is a almost as if
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: it's a.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Coven, of which is yeah, there wouldn't. Surely there wouldn't
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: just be a group of women.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Never a group of women equals a coven.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Not in the seventies. Something's afoot.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Okay. Then there's a scene where the matrons are casting
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: votes for either Marcos or Blanc, and it's voted that
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Mother Marcos will remain in charge. Then there's a conversation
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: about how they have to choose the right girl to
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: perform some ritual because Patricia aka Chloe Grace Moretz didn't
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: work out and now Patricia seems to be missing. The
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: other dancers, particularly Sarah, is worried about her and they
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: don't know where.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: She is, which is interesting because in the in the
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: original version, that is Susie. I mean, there's like Susie's
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: whole narrative in this movie is unique to this movie.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: But originally it's like the American girl shows up and
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: finds out something's afoot and immediately starts investigating it and doesn't.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just like the character is totally different.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: But that's more Mia goths vibe in this movie.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're wondering if Mia Goth's character Sarah might
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: be the right choice for this ritual that they will
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: be performing. Sarah then helps Susie get settled into her dormitory,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: and then the dancers start rehearsing for an upcoming performance
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: of a dance called Vulk, which and they're doing like
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: contemporary dance slash German expression. There's some modern dance. I
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: don't know exactly what genre this is, but it's not
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: ballet like it is in the first Suspiria movie.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're pulling from like this specific German choreographer named
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Mary Wigman, and I guess that that is like who
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Dakota Johnson studied. She's a modern dancer during the time.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: But the reason she is not explicitly credited or referenced
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: within the movie is because I think a lot of
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: what you were like referring to of like the kind
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: of one of the narrative complications of this movie Alison,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: where she was likely connected to Nazism in some way.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: So she had a lot of influence in German dance
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: but is not really discussed today, although I think it's
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: her work that's being pulled from for this choreography.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: Interesting. So they're doing they're prepping for this performance for
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: this dance called Volk. The one dancer, Olga, is upset
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: that Patricia is gone and she calls Madame Blanc a
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: liar and a witch, and she runs out intending to
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: quit the company, so now they don't have a protagonist
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: because Olga was supposed to dance that part, but Susie volunteers,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: even though she's brand new and people are skeptical of
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: her skill level. He's like, I can do it, and
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: she starts dancing.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: She's so Christine die in Phantom of the Opera, where
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: she's like me, I guess I could, and then she
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: fucking kills it.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's dancing, and as she's dancing, we see Olga
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: trying to leave, but she gets trapped in a room
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: and it's as if Susie's dance movements are puppeting Olga's
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: body and so it's contorting her in this really gruesome,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: violent way. It's breaking her bones and twisting her all around.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I know this movie came out afterwards, but it reminded
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: me very much of a similar dance scene in US.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right, that came out the year after this,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: So I think it's a coincidence, but wild that this
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: setup was on people's minds. Right.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: We are also occasionally following doctor Klemper around he visits
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: I think it's his old house in East Berlin where
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: he used to live.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: With his wife.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Who went missing many years ago. We also see him
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: looking through Patricia's journal and he sees some peculiar stuff
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: about this dance company and he calls the police and
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: reports Patricia missing. Now back at the company, some of
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: the matrons find Olga's grotesquely contorted body. They barely react.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: They stick some large hooks in her and drag her away.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: So it seems like this is just par for the
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: course at the old Marcos Dance Company.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: A lot of hook imagery in this.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Movie, yeah, truly. Then we hear a conversation, which so
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: some of the conversations in this movie seem to be
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: happening telepathically, where the matron slash witches are communicating with
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: their minds.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: You didn't like that part, Jamie, Oh no, I did
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: like that part.
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: That was a good part. I thought that was really good,
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: Like when they're just dinner but then they're so fang
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: is happening. I kind of love that.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: I thought that was great. Yeah, No, that like there,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't hate this movie, let me be, I just
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: feel like, I don't know, I'm excited to talk about
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: it later in the episode where I felt like there
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: were so many elements of this movie that I liked
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: and I didn't really I don't know, like I just
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: where it landed. I found confused. I was like not
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: happy with the way that it.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Ended, I guess anyway, So we hear this conversation where
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: they are rethinking their choice of Sarah and instead maybe
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: they should try the new girl, Susie for the ritual
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: they're planning.
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Then two cops show up to the dance company trying
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: to find Patricia, but some of the matrons seemingly put
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: them in a hypnotic trance. They're taunting them, they're taking
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: their pants off and like touching.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: That was my other favorite part.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're and they're touching them with the hooks like
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: they're like kind of prodding the one guy's penis with
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: one of the hooks, and it's release something. The dancers
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: continue to rehearse with Madame Blanc instructing them. She's working
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: closely with Susie, training her up. She's like jump higher.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Then we see this hand, this like close up on
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: a hand with these like long growth fingernails, and apparently
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: it's mother Marcos from like the depths of this building
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: wanting to feel Susie's energy. Then doctor Klemper approaches Sarah
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: about Patricia and her belief that a coven of witches
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: is running this dance company, and he's like, Sarah, maybe
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: you should check this out, and she's like, I don't
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: know what you're talking about. I see no evidence of this.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Leave me alone. But Sarah starts to get little suspicious,
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: and she does start investigating the building and finds a
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: room with some weird stuff, including those large hooks, and
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: she also hears some screaming coming from another room. And
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: that screaming, I think is that other Tilda Swinton character
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: with the big plastic framed Six Flags guy glasses who
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: we had seen picking up a knife and stabbing herself
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: in the neck for reasons Yes that we definitely understands.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I think that she and the psychiatry should
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: have hung out because they had a similar till this
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: wint and six Flags guy aesthetic, Like they would have
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: made sense together as friends, even you know exactly.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, So Sarah is, you know, hearing and seeing this
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: freaky stuff. So she runs out and she goes to
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: see doctor Clemper again, who tells Sarah about what Patricia
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: had written in her diary about the three mothers, and
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: I'm going to try to pronounce their names. It's mother Tennenbroum,
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: the Royal tenen Broughms. It's mothers.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Like being at a party and trying to remember the
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: name of a movie.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, mother, Oh god, I don't let letch not lockreamham Marum,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: I don't know. And then mother suspiriorum or something. I
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: don't know if I said that one right. Anyway, Mother
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Marco's claims to be one of the three, but there
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: is descent among the group of matrons, hence that vote
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: we saw earlier as to who should be in charge,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: and it seems like modern Blanc is also insisting that
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: she's one of the mothers.
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: This is kind of the bitchiest part of the Movie's
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: kind of like in cat fighting between them. Which old
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: witch in charge?
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: Which witch yep. Then Sarah confronts Susie, accusing her of
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: making some kind of deal with the witches, and Susie's like, no,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: nothing is wrong, everything is normal te he and we're like, wow,
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: gaslighting much. Then it's the night of the show that
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: the company is putting on, and as the dancers are
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: getting ready, Sarah snoops around the building again, and she
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: finds Patricia and some of the other dancers. I think
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: Olga maybe the one who had been like badly contorted.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: They are alive, but their bodies are badly injured and
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: they're like decaying. They're kind of being kept in storage.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: It looks like, yeah, they're like being held against their will.
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: Kind of catacombs underneath.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: The dance school.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really scary. And Sarah is freaked out and
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: she's trying to escape, but she falls and breaks her
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: leg because like the witches are preventing her from escaping,
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: and then some of the matrons find her and put
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: her into a trance and heal her leg. Meanwhile, the
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: performance is going on upstairs with Susie dancing the lead
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: and Sarah, in her trance joins in, but she falls
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: and cries out in pain, and doctor Klemper, who is
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: there to watch, is like, Wow, something weird is definitely
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: going on. I was right.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: They changed eye color too, Yeah, girl, yes, which is
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: very weird. You don't realize what is happening, and then yeah,
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: you sort of realize it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah right, I know, Like toward the end of the movie,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: I was like wait, was Dakota Fanning's eyes were they
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: always brown?
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Dakota? Who?
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: What did I say, Dakota? Did I say, Dakota Fanning?
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: I knew I was going to do.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: That, Dakota straight.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm so sorry, buddy.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Back inside of everyone, there are two Dakota's.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: North inside or east and west like the Berlin anyway. Okay,
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: So then there's another day of rehearsals, and Madame Blanc
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: is like, okay, it has to happen tonight, this ritual
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: with Susie, where Susie will be some sort of vessel
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: for Mother Marcos, and Susie seems to be in on it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: She is a willing and knowing participant. Meanwhile, doctor Klemperer's
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: his wife, who again went missing decades earlier, suddenly reappears
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: and she's played by Jessica Harper, who played Susie Banyon
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: in the original Suspiria from nineteen seventy seven.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Who has been on this chef friend of the cast.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: On the Rosemary's Baby episode. Ye anyway, so uh, doctor
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Klemperer and his wife Anka have a tearful reunion and
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: they're walking through this city at night, and then She
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: brings him to the dance company and then immediately disappears
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: because it was a trick. The witches tricked him into
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: going there because they're going to use him as the
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: witness for the ritual. The ritual starts. We're in this
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: big underground room. The dancers are naked. They're dancing and
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: writhing around. Sarah is getting disemboweled. Mother Marcos is there.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: We finally see her in the flesh. She is also
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: played by Tilda Swinton, and she is a sight to see,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: a vision of a vision, a legend. You know, we'll
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: talk about that character more, but basically she's made to
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: look very.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Many times we talk about that happening. Yeah, seriously reminds
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: me of I feel like that goes back to not
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: like cinematically, just like times we've talked about it. I
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: feel like the shining maybe.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: Shining, we talked about it and the Vivich We've got
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: countless times. This conversation is always coming up midsommar. Yeah. Oh,
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: and then Susie is like I'm ready, and we think
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: she's going to be sacrificed, and then Madame Blanc is like,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: something doesn't feel right. We have to stop this, but
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: before she can, Mother Marcos kind of like half decapitates
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Madame Blanc and then Marcos is like, okay, Susie, let's
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: keep going. And by the way, you have to kill
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: your mother back in Ohio because I'm the only mother
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: you need. But then another super witch I don't really
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: know who this is supposed to be, but a very
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: scary being shows up, and Susie's like, hey, Mother Marcos,
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: for which mother were you anointed again? And she's like
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Mother's Suspiriorum and Susie's like, well, that's interesting because I
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: am Mother's Suspiriorum. And then the super witch kills Mother
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Marcos and anyone who had voted for Marcos by exploding
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: their heads into a burst of blood. Then Susie goes
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: to Patricia, Olga and Sarah and they all ask to die.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: They're you know, in pain and they've been you know,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: brutally tortured and stuff. So Susie slash the new Mother
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Suspiriorum releases them from their mortal coils, and the other
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: dancers are still dancing, and Susie's like, yes, keep dancing.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: She also rips open her own chest at some point
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: for reasons.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: It's because she's got like a heart of darkness. Yes,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: mother suspiriorum vibes truly.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: I think she's like, she's not a person, So you're
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: just like, it's whatever, where this is?
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the spirit, this magic, it does sort of look
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: like a hollowed out kunt hit in her chest. Sorry,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: I'm just quoting the movie anyway.
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: Oh I'm open to it.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, thank you so much.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: Then we see the aftermath of all of this, where
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: one of the matrons escorts doctor Klemper out of the building.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: We see the remaining matrons whose heads didn't get exploded.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: They're cleaning up the bloody mess from the night before.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Madame Blanc is still sort of alive, but who knows.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Then Susie pays a visit to doctor Klemper at home,
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: and she's like, you deserve to know the truth about
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: what happened with your wife, and she tells him that
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: she was killed in a Nazi death camp in nineteen
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: forty three and that she was thinking of him when
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: she died. And then Susie erases his memory of his wife, Anka,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: of Patricia and Sarah, and Susie herself basically all of
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: the women that were his undoing. And then the movie
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: ends with an image of the house he lived in
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: with Anka, and this like engraved like their initials engraved
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: with like a heart drawn around it, which he will
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: never remember because the witches don't want him to remember.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: The end.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: So that's the movie. Let's take a quick break and
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: we'll come back to discuss, and we are back, all right,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: Where should we start?
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Where did we start with this movie? I mean, I
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: guess just to for people listening who have not seen
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: either movie or have a only seen the twenty eighteen movie,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: the differences between the two suspirias are pretty significant. I
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: would say that there's obviously a lot of love and
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: care put into the twenty eighteen version to pay homage
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: to the original. The protagonist's name is the same. Susie
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: comes from America to a dancing organization in Berlin in
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: both times. The dance company is full of witches both times,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: but the Argenta version is plot wise pretty cut and
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: dry as far as which stories go. I think that
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: what makes it different is, you know, unlike most slasher
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: films of this era and still to some extent now,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: depending on what you're watching, it's not men butchering women,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: it's women butchering women. Although it's shot very similarly and
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: it's sort of a straightforward an innocent young woman comes
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: to Berlin and finds witches and she survives till the
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: end and is sort of this pure figure throughout. This
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: one is obviously very different, but for those who haven't
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: seen the Argento that's basically what it is, and it
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: has all these separate issues that the twenty eighteen movie
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: does not share with it, So we'll save that for
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: another episode.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I also want to share some of the lore
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: of the Three Mothers, which I didn't realize until I
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: started researching for this episode, but it's I wasn't sure
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: if like the Three Mothers were based in some sort
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: of myth thought like existing mythology, and it was inspired
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: by existing mythology. But basically Dario Argento conceived of this
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: trio of mothers and made a trilogy about the Three mothers.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: So Suspiria from seventy seven is one of the movies
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: of this trilogy that focuses on, you know, mother Suspiriorum.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: He also made a movie called Inferno and another movie
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: called Mother of Tears, which each of those movies focuses
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: on the other two of the three mothers, and throughout
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: the course of this trilogy you learn that it's these like,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: you know, ancient witches who I think invented It was
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: like three sisters who invented witchcraft and then started just
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: like going around Europe amassing wealth throughout the centuries, amassing power,
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: leaving death in their wake wherever they went. They were
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: able to manipulate world events on like a global scale,
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: you know, killing anyone who got in their way or
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: discovered who they actually were, and they were determined to
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: rule the world. Now the witch is wanting more world
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: domination doesn't come across super clearly in this movie, which
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: is actually one of my criticisms about it because I
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: kept being like, oh, okay, what is their motivation? Like
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: why are they doing what they're doing? I wish there
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: was I don't know, I guess, and we'll talk about
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: this the way, like these witches are feminists, which obviously
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: I mean further discussion, but like I was like, are
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: these witches like trying to smash the patriarchy quote unquote
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: or like what are they doing exactly?
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: It's it.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: It never becomes quite clear, and so I was left wanting,
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: I guess, more of a reason or an explanation of
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: like why they're doing what they're doing. But we can
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: get further into that.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, does anyone have like I mean, I sat like,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I think the way that I think about this movie
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: changes depending on like which perspective I'm looking at it
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: from where.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Which perspective.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Witch, But there's I think that there's a lot of
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: like generational stuff going on in this movie, and that
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: it see or I sort of took away that like
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: this coven was just trying to sustain by any means necessary,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: which you could say of like basically any societal setup,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: but this one is hyper feminine and also supernatural. But
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: it just seemed like for me, like I don't know,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I was not I'm surprised I did not know that
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: about the Argento expanded like lore because it Yeah, I
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: think I just read especially because of like the historical
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: context that they were However, like however they had to
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: survive as even like an idea or a structure that
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: they were not above brutalizing or getting rid of anyone
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: who didn't sort of fall into line with what they needed,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: which is like, you know, a patriarchal structure, even though
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: this one is dominated by women. But anyone who falls
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: out of line in this world, and I think this
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: is true of the Argenta movie too, but like anyone
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: who falls out of line with the big leaders is
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: not just eliminated, but like tortured and humiliated and then
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: eliminated and like discredited. And that felt clear to me.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I just like I don't know, I guess I'm less
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: sure of like what the goal was of showing this
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: happening in a strictly like matriarchal world.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, to me, what I thought it was
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: a back which was very interesting to me was like
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: female creativity because to me, like it really they were
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: a dance studio. They weren't just like a schoolhouse or something.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: And I think that's their thing. They're fucking amazing at dancing.
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: And that's a super interesting tension of like their creativity
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: and the woman who's kind of in charge is the
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: kind of creative, the most creative one, but they're all
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: kind of buying for like who's you know, can kind
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: of get into it the best or the best dancer.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: And I thought like that was their point, but maybe
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: that's just you know, what interests me is female creativity,
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: and there's very few movies about female creativity, and so
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: I like that a lot. And then again, so I
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: have teenage daughters and I'm an elder hag, and so
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: the tension between the hags and the young women is real.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: I just a personal story. I had just spent two
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: days at my fourteen year old daughter's overnight camp where
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: all the mothers come. It's called Mother's Weekend, and it
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: was mothers with their daughters for two nights at an
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: overnight camp. And you see these like daughters and then
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: you see them walking with the mothers and they kind
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: of look alike, but there's kind of some I don't know,
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: like they're all like the mothers are kind of like
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: swollen and sweaty and like you know, wearing shorts that
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: don't fit them, and the daughters are all just sort
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: of like these like glorious like young, full of life,
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: you know things, And it's like real to me. When
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: I just watched it again, it was super like that
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: tension of like older women younger women. The kind of
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: physicality of it, I don't know, I mean, does it
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: all like is there like a straight line that you
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: can call, you know. But it made me think about
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: all that stuff and that's all interesting to me.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's like one of the things. So like
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Mother Marcos and when we finally get her reveal on screen,
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: and there's been kind of there's been hints about like
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: what this ritual is gonna be fool or like why
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: it's happening, and you eventually realize that she's basically looking
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: for a new body to inhabit because the body that
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: she currently has is and this is what we were
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: alluding to as far as like the discussions we've had
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: about this trope. But it's like a woman who is
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: not young or thin is therefore disgusting. And the way
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: that like this character is designed where she's got like
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: extra appendages growing out of her it seems like there's
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: like a baby head like kind of drooping from her belly.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was thinking about the baby hand on her arms. Oh,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of extraneous Yeah.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's like it's it almost seems like she's
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: like externally pregnant is the best way I could describe it.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: Either way, Like she's she's just characterized as being this
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: grotesque hag and her goal here the reason this ritual
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: is happening, I don't know, Like it's so that she
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: can inhabit this new, thin, young body. Is it for
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: vanity reasons? Is it for just that she needs a
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: body that will like last longer so that she can
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: keep ruling as like mother suspiriorum.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: That's sort of what I interpreted that as was like
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: that she is trying I guess that that was going
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: with like how I was viewing the movie by like
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: how do I sustain We're weirdly we were talking abou.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know why we were talking about the Star
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Wars rebooths, but it's on like a similar thing with
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: like Emperor Palpatine is like you need to go on
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: and like you know, he's kind of similarly characterizes very
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: very grotesque, although not in the same way he's wearing
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: a robe, but like is trying to maintain this immense
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: power that he has that not most people see or
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: recognize by enlisting younger bodies. But then there's like I
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: think that, yeah, like the fact that this older body
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: is a woman's body that complicates things because there's like
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: the way that like any older woman's body has been
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: shown specifically, and horror tends to be really pointed, and like,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: aren't older women's bodies horrific and therefore evil? Which is
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: like what we talked about in you know, when Jack
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Nicholson sees an old lady's but in the Shining he
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: can't handle it. It's it's too evil stuff like that.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like it's tricky, I I And then
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: with like younger women's bodies, I mean, I think that
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: the younger women in this movie don't have a lot
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: of power and like they h and it feels like this,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know how like effectively it's done, But I
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: guess I don't know, like how the older women in
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: charge have the actual power, but they need to execute
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: it through the bodies of these younger women, which theoretically,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: on a long enough timeline, these younger women will do
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: two other younger women and it's like this, you know,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: whole churning cycle of power and manipulation. Yeah, so that
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: or maybe that's mommy, I don't know, I'm not bad.
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: Well, there's mothers. There has to be daughters, I guess, right.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Or children?
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, yeah, of any gender but yeah, in this
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: case of this movie, it's like, yeah, the mother quote
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: unquote the mother generation and then like the daughter generation
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: and like the tension they'rein, which I do want to
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: talk about further. But so the thing with me for
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: this movie is that throughout the story there's this idea
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: of this dance company is a matriarchy. It's women looking
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: out for each other. It's like, you know, the mother
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: is nurturing this younger generation, and these witch are feminist
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: icons where you get like lines of like when one
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: of the matrons is explaining to Susie that you know,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: like you mentioned this already, Jamie, like at this company,
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: we understand the importance of a woman's financial autonomy. There's
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: a scene where Susie and Sarah are talking about Madame
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: Blanc and how she's awesome, and Sarah says, like, when
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: the Third Reich wanted to shut off women's minds and
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: keep their uteruses open, Madame Blanc was there to like
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: provide a safe space for women to have like freedom
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: and bodily on autonomy. The matrons b rate doctor Klamperer,
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: saying like you had years to get your wife out
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: of Berlin before she disappeared, like it's your fault that
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: your wife is dead. And then they also b rate
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: him for not believing women when they come to him
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: about like their concerns, and he instead, you know, says
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: they are delusional. So it sort of presents this idea
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: of like, wow, look at this matriarchy who's all about
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: women's autonomy and you know, believing women and women looking
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: out for each other. But then like any woman who
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: doesn't want to be a part of the witch stuff
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: is imprisoned and tortured, and there's like this one true
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: leader and if you don't pledge your undying loyalty to her,
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: she'll explode your head off. So there's like this power structure.
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: To me, it's like like even that scene where they're
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: hypnotizing and taunting the cops, who are the only other
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: two male characters besides doctor Klemper who have any kind
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: of like narrative significance, And it seems like on the
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: surface that could be some kind of like feminist win,
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: but I don't know, Like me, they're.
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: Just having fun, Like I really good and it's kind
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: of nice to see what take some laugh. That was
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: like they had like the best time ever but I
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: don't know if it was that.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know, Like women abusing men the
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: way that men have abused women is not feminism, as
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: much as I like to goof around and joke that
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: it is. It's not. Like matriarchy is not just gender
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: swapped patriarchy. Like smashing the patriarchy doesn't mean we're going
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: to like replace it with an equally toxic and violent
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: power structure, and like a power structure where some women
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: have way more power than other women that they violently
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: wield over the women who have less power. Like, that's
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: not feminism, that's not matriarchy. So I don't know exactly
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: what the movie's trying to say. And I feel like
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: the director thought he was making a feminist movie, but
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: I just I feel like the takeaway from this movie
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: is everything you've heard about a group of women and
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: actually being a coven of witches, well that's true. And
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: a group of women, especially one who is like not
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: dependent on men in any way, that's something to be
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: feared because those women are evil and their power hungry.
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: They want power over the world, over men, and over
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: each other because women be petty, And that is my takeaway.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: I am willing to entertain other reads of this movie,
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: because I do think you could look at this movie
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: and read it as a feminist text. But to me,
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: it's just like there are too many tropes of women
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: as evil witches present that I don't know what the
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: movie is doing to exactly challenge that that I come
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: down on the side of, Like, so, what's the point, Like,
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: what's the takeaway again?
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: I mean maybe I'm just I don't think it is
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: a feminist movie.
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't really bad. Yeah they're bad women and it's
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: a bad matriarchy. Yeah they're.
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not a feminist movie. I just still it
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: tracks for me all like a million levels, like actually
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: because my dearest.
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: Level, you know, And that's like kind of what I
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: see this movie, you know, like in a lot of ways,
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: you know, don't know.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: I was just saying. When I came up, I was
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: a visual artist, and I was in New York and
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: worked for a lot of really amazing middle aged female
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: artists who were hella me. I mean, the meanness I
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: could ever be would like be like one tenth of
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: how mean they were, but they what they had to
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: get through to be even in the position they were
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: I was just like in awe of them and like
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: whatever they you know, I really could identify with the
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: young dancer to the old woman thing. And you know,
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: I don't think the movie's feminist, but it's a it's
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: a it's an it's an experience. But like, I don't
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: think it has a point like you're saying, I don't
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: think we should be like, oh, this is really insightful
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: about some you know, changing the face of feminist thought.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: But it does sort of track with the timeframe of
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: what it's about women creativity, women artists that is potentially,
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: you know, at least I feel like it wasn't like
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: science fiction, so no, I mean.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: Familiar. I guess I'm just like annoyed. This movie that
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: was written by a man and directed by a different
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: man has women valuing things like women's financial unbodily autonomy,
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: or at least saying that they value that on the surface,
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: and then like saying that people should believe women, and
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: then they turn around and they're like just kidding, which
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: also does happen where like people have a very like
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: public facing feminist persona, but then they turn around and
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: are like evil sexist capitalists and stuff. Like that, So
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just like, yeah, I guess I'm sort of
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: coming down somewhere in the middle here because I also
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: think that this, Yeah, I agree with you, Caitlin that
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: like the most evil characters in the movie saying the
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: most progressive things definitely does not bode well. I don't think,
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: and I would have I think appreciated. I think it
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: would have maybe made I don't know. First of all,
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: I cannot really tell what the intended effect was for
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: the writer and the director. I truly could not figure
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: out what they wanted me to take away from it,
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: which is fine, but I just couldn't tell. But yeah,
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: some of the most technically progressive statements in this movie
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: are made by who end up being the most evil characters,
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: and that is I guess it would have been. I
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: don't know, like I would have appreciated more of some
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: sort of diversity of opinion among the older women and
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: if there was someone who had sort of like dissented
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: to the general like, because I think that existed in
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: a younger cast, where the younger women tend to feel
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: a variety of ways about a thing, the older woman
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: tend to sort of fall in line with the same thing,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: and that sort of muddled the takeaway for me. The
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: thing that like really genuinely bothered me about the way
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: this movie ends. And maybe and I think that there
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: is some like worldly truth to this, but because the
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: end of the movie was so jumbled for me, I
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: just didn't like it was that, you know, at the end,
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: in a way that is like knowingly self serving, Susie
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: goes to the six Flags guy and presents him absolution
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: and men in Black Memories apps him from the horrific
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: things that he has seen, and he, you know, receives
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: this sort of full arc of he learns this horrible
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: thing that has happened to his wife that he he's
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: clearly carrying a lot of guilt about. That seems to
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: be implied why he is attempting to help women, even
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: though he is applying rationality to an irrational world. All
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: this shit, right, But the fact that, yeah, that he's
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: the only character in the movie that gets that grace
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: and that absolution just in general bugged me. Maybe that
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: was the point though, maybe that's like, you know, men
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: are extended a level of grace and absolution that women
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: are not. I don't know, really and maybe Susie was
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: just acting, you know, in the best interests to sustain
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: the coven and for someone on the outside to know
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: anything about the inside is bad for business, and so
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: we're not going to do it. But that was the
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: thing that like, I don't know, going out, especially because
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: there's so many like characters inside of the dance studio
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: that I feel like did not get a satisfactory arc
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: to like go out of the way to give that
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: to the literally the one male character in the movie
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: and give him kind of like a happy Smiley ending.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: I just like that. That was the thing that really
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: bugged me about the ending, Like do you.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: Think it's happy Smiley though if like he has no
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: memory now of like his wife and like the love
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: they shared, that's true, you know, I mean I don't know,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: Like to me, it's like the ending is prioritizing like
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: the history you know, in the atmosphere, over the dance,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: you know, like over the witches, you know, like even
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: essentially right, it's like reaching out like just you know,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: to me and my interpretation to like this like larger
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: metaphorical you know space that sort of like engages like
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: the you know, the whole like context and setting and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 5: the Holocaust and you know, all of it, you know,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: and so I mean, yeah, I think like that's kind
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: of and and like I mean this in a caring way,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: because I appreciate, you know, sort of all of the
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: larger historical contexts that come into the film, but I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: think that there is like this like essential like both
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: wayseness that it's trying to have, you know, like like
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: being sort of you know, like taking the story of
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: like this coven and you know, this dance troup and
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: these women that you know, like ultimately it has to
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: leave them to serve that you know, kind of like
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 5: level I guess of like thematics.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: So so that that was kind of like my yeah,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: my thing with the ending, it's like I understand, but
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 5: it also did feel like a historically male narrative choice,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: you know, to leave the female characters behind, you know,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: like in favor of capital h you know, history and
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 5: you know, yeah, just kind of like saying what we'll
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 5: say about war.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Yeah, I thought it was also maybe
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: I was reading too much into it, but I thought
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: it was like some kind of like collective psyche that
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: that guy like embodied of like being because he doesn't
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: really feel like a person. No one does in the movie.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: But you know, it's not like it's a realistic portrayal.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: It's so like stylized and heightened. But he, to me
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: was like you know whatever. And Freud and I talk
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: about Lacan like they're like deep into like European intellectual
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: you know, theory within the film and they're letting you
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: know that. But I think, like that's what I thought.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: It was some sort of like she's now maybe the
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: whatever her reign as you know, if you have to
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: have the witches, she's gonna sort of coming in now
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: it's her thing. And it's like she seemed more benevolent
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: because the other woman was clearly batshit, the one that
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: she got rid of, like she maybe was the one
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: causing so much chaos and we don't choose a fraud, Yeah, right,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: that lady's the fraud. So when Dakota not Fan Johnson
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: like put to you know, and clearly her mother was
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: so fucking mean, which we didn't talk about at all,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: like whatever, that was that to you know for Alyssa,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: and I think that lady tracks the most from our world.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: The actual mother who's like cursing her one curses her daughter.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: It's on her death.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 5: That was a real bummer. That was a real bummer
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: for me.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a bummer. And so I just felt like, Okay,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: this girl is like gonna maybe bring upon this like
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: more benevolent thing because she gets rid of all the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: people who voted the other girl. Oh, keeps her people
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: on and a bunch of those tags. Yeah, they seem
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: like maybe the hags that were always kind of like you,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: they would always cut away to them like, oh no,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: what's she doing now? You know, the ones that lived
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: through to the end, they seemed a little more suspicious
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: of the original witch hag.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: Oh no, definitely, So maybe she's a better Yeah, Oh
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: I think she is. I mean I do think that
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: it's like about, you know, a sort of like come
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 5: up and right to those in power who abused their power. Right,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 5: But I'm also just kind of wondering like what it
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: says about, you know, like like secrecy is such a
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: thing you know, sort of like within even like the building,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: you know, and like the mirrors and like reflections and
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 5: like who people literally are and lineage you know, with
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 5: like the mother you know, and just sort of like, yeah,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: where we came from being like so hidden, and.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: That's the whole lacon thing, right, It's like you see
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: your mother, you see yourself, and as it was saying
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: on the camp where you see the mothers and daughters together,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: and it's this weird funhouse mirror between the two. I mean,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: the movie's not a feminist movie, but it's it's like
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: they went for it in this movie, and I personally
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: I like people who really go for it.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it did not hold back.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: And they they did not take the easy road here, No,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: they did not.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: They did not.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's like, I don't know, it's so
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: weird because it's like the stance, like he comes in
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: at an eleven this entire movie. But I'm still that's something.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: But there are still whole sequences where I'm like not
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: sure what he's trying to say. I like that, Like
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: with this psychiatrist, I don't know, Like I liked a
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: lot of what was going on with him until the
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: very end. The ending I just found frustrating. But towards
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: the beginning it's clear that he's like trying to like
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: apply this very like I guess new Ish European psychological
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: standard to his patients that is not working because Patricia
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: is telling the truth and he's like, well, you just
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: have issues with your mom, and so like let's work
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: this out, which I think is like an issue I
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: have with my therapist as recently as tomorrow. Sometimes I'm like,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: I hear you, but it can't just be that, like
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: we cannot just keep going back to my mind, you know.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: I think he's like applying a lot of theory to
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: patients who are kind of just telling him what is
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: happening to them. And I thought that that worked, and
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: I like that he's sort of like his come up
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: and being forced to witness the reality of what Patricia
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: was telling him in the first scene of the movie
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: felt appropriate and like, you know.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 5: Almost feels feminist, right Like like at that moment, I'm like, okay,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: you know, like I think it does, you know, approach
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: it in moments I.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Think part of my.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: Like I don't want to say, you know, like I
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 5: want to appreciate it on its own terms, right, you know,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 5: like not everything is you know, like a vehicle for
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 5: feminist theory. But I think what's so frustrating to me
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: about the movie is like it's so easily could have
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: been right, Like there are so many you know kind
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: of like moments and windows and avenues that you know,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: like do get it right or you know, do point out.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: I mean it's also like a really fun takeaway, you
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 5: know that like in you know, nineteen seventy seven, like
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 5: Berlin like to be as evil as a patriarchy, like
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 5: to get enough power where you can like express that
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 5: power and be that evil, like you literally have to
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 5: be supernatural witches. Like it's the only way you know
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 5: that like women can like amass that much power, you know,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: and that much like independence and you know, financial freedom
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 5: and et cetera, et cetera. You know, I think like
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: there are a lot of like feminist vectors right in
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 5: the movie. So I mean I think like maybe like
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 5: that was kind of one of my peeves, I guess,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 5: you know, at certain points where I thought it was
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: like gonna you know, like realize this.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: And then it doesn't.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: But I do feel like it's also kind of like
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: saying you know, something interesting about history and atonement, you know,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 5: or even just kind of like validation of kind of
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 5: yeah witness and hollowed out counts, you know, like I mean,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: it's bringing good stuff to the table in other ways.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: In other ways it felt like, I guess at the end,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: I felt like the what this movie seemed like it
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: was trying to say about history and what this movie
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: was trying to say at different points about women felt
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: like it got kind of muddled and jumbled, which I
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: guess is true of the world. But it is a movie,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: and so I was just sort of like, it felt like,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: you know, there was it was like the culmination of
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: this psychiatrist's view of his women patients that comes true
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: when he's forced to witness it, but the way that
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: his arc resolves is more related to history and less
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: related to the other stuff. And it just felt like
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: I just was frustrated by it. But I get that,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: you know, like everyone will feel yeah.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean the other thing is I mean I
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: was reading little bit about them. How the second one
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: came to pass and it took It was in development
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: for a very long time. First of all, this is
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: not like a slam dunk movie to make. It was,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: you know, and it made no money, so clearly they
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: were you know, had some problems. But it was originally
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: David Gordon Green was going to direct this, which is
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: like mind numbingly confusing to me. Even though I really
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: love David Gordon Green, I just don't. I don't somehow
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: get it. And that would have been fascinating to see.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: But I mean, the people who did make this movie, like,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: did choose to make an entirely female cast of this movie.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: That's whatever you want to say about the context of
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: what it is. That's a choice, that's an unusual choice.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 4: And then again, I'm going to harken back to the
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: whole concept of like female creativity. I think, like there's
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: you know, and my one of my daughters is an athlete.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: There's so few movies about female creativity and female athletes.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: I'm considering how many movies are about male creativity. It's
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: like it's mind blowing to me and would have been
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: interesting if a woman made this movie. I'm sure it
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: would have been. But I think it's still an odd
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: choice for anyone to want to make a movie about
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: this much about you know, with this whole women cast.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: You know, it is like whether or not it's a
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 4: feminist movie. There certainly tried to make something. They tried
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 4: to do something. They took some big swings here, and
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: I don't think it was. I think I don't know.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: I think that's interesting, like if they had that, these
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: were the people that got the script, which this guy
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: like got Argento to give them the rights to the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 4: movie to make it, you know, I don't, I don't know.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, Dario Argento is way problematic. We haven't gotten
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: into it, but in terms of his own personal behavior,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: which I is, you know, slightly more upsetting than the film,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: I guess, but yeah, anyway, Yeah, well.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: I mean another reason I had, you know, like another
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 5: soft spot I guess, you know that I have for
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: the movie. That's you know, kind of like one of
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 5: my own like problematic trials.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: I guess.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 5: I guess a creative is like how you represent you know,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: female like evil and female violence without you know, falling
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: into like stereotype and trope, you know, and things that
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: like reinforce messages that are out there you know that
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 5: are are already very harmful and you know, have historically
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 5: been very harmful.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: You know like that.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that that's just something like I'm really interested in
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: and that I struggle with a lot. So I mean,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: I guess like I also appreciate both sides of that struggle.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: M right. It makes me I want to go back
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: to something I think, Alison, you were talking about it
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: earlier about sort of the complicated and generally bummer with
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: you alyssa message around or just around Susie's specifically arc
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: with mothers and motherhood that goes back to me for
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: another I guess, like chafing, I was having with how
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: this movie portrays witches because I feel like there's a
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: few different examples in arcs in this movie where we're
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: seeing this horrible thing happened between Susie's mother and Susie,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: where Susie's mother is saying that her youngest daughter is
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: this agent of Satan, that she is her sin, that
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: this is the worst thing that's ever happened to her,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: which is essentially like it. You're led to believe Susie's
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: been at least emotionally abused, and it's also implied physically
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: abused for most of her childhood, which makes total sense.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: You want to get the fuck out of the country
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: if that were the case. But then at the end,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Cuzie's mother is kind of like quote unquote proven right,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: because actually Susie has been an agent of Satan. This
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: whole time she is evil and she is horrible, and
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: so you're like, well, what is that trying to say?
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: If we're shown this horrific parent child dynamic and then
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: at the end the abusive parent is correct, Like, it's
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: just bizarre to me. I like couldn't get my head
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: around it.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: Okay, I thought it. And again I'm just my own
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 4: like dark sided soul in my own experience. But I
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: read it as Susie is an artist, right, Susie's dancer,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: Susie's this artist person growing up in like some kind
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: of I don't know what that was, honest, Menon, menonit right,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: mennonit thing. And you know, I had parents who were like,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: you want to be a what you know, you're going
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: to be an artist? Like, you know, just this real
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 4: like negative super And again I don't know how how
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: bad she is a bee the you know, we could
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: agree to disagree on that one. But to me, I
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: don't know, Maybe you know, they just couldn't handle her
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: levels of like ambition and creativity back there in Ohio,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: you know, but maybe I'm just you know, that's just
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: the way my brain goes on it.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: Alternatively, is it the abuse that Susie endured from her
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: mother that led her to become the witch she now is, Like,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: did she start out as like a well, because I
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: do want to examine Susie and her arc more closely,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: because like we meet her, we see her. I don't
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: know if she's like tending to her sick mother, but
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: she's like sitting by her bedside, and I feel like
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: the movie maybe I'm just sort of like reading into this,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: but I feel like it's implied that the reason her
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: mother is ill is because Susie has been making her
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: ill with her like witchcraft this whole time. That's not
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: clearly stated one way or the other. But anyway we
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: meet Susie, she is set up to be this, you know, innocent.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: She's pretty shy, quiet, she's kind of awkward. She comes
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: from this Mennonite family, the implication being that she has
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: lived a pretty sheltered and modist life. But then she
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: comes to Berlin. She's like at the dance school for
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: a day and she's like, hang on a minute, I
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: can dance the lead in this thing. Because I saw
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: a documentary about it. I went to the library and
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: watched it one hundred times.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: Was like me when I was starting stand up there,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: so be careful.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: I'm not judging her.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: I just think I can do this because I watched
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: it on TV. I thinks a lot of the I mean,
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: I think that that is like a lot of young
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: artists where it's like, especially if you are Susie and
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: you grow up with very little access to art like souls,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: do you learn you want to be an artist other
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: than watching it and whatever's available?
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, I'm not passing anywhere or help you.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Chats to you about it at night.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Alyssa. Alyssa grew up in a very religious household
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: that as an artist. Yes, so that you know, did
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: you how did you feel for Susie escaping?
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 5: So I think that there can be a Okay, I
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 5: don't know that this is like the right opinion to have.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 4: I'm just gonna lay it out there.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: Let's go on the assumption that it is.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: Well, it isn't.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 5: Like there was something kind of refreshing about seeing like
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 5: the that you know twist and that reversal leaned into
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 5: like in a way that like exists completely outside of
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 5: like religious propaganda, you know what I mean, Like just
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 5: like to to be like yeah, you know that this
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 5: was actually like true, and you know, like maybe all
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 5: of those assumptions right that we have about you know,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 5: like our like willingness to kind of like see this
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 5: you know, young woman as a victim, YadA YadA, you
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 5: know how in your face like I know that that's
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 5: that's kind of like an overdone and and like dirty trick.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 5: But I don't know, I mean there's just something about
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 5: like going for it at eleven, like you say that,
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 5: I don't know what kind of interested me. And I
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: liked thinking back then on the movie, you know and
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 5: being like okay, well was I seeing you know, like
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 5: how was I seeing this? And like how would I
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 5: see it if actually like she was a vehicle for
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 5: seeing this full time, you know, or like actually like
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 5: she was tuning into this or you know, like her
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 5: mom did see you know this this in her or
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 5: this was her life, or you know she wanted to
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 5: be here for like all of these different reasons, or
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 5: she was lying to her friend when we thought that
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 5: she was you know, being like completely honest and vulnerable,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 5: like I don't know, you know, it was just kind
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 5: of a fun little like rewind and I don't know
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 5: that that I don't know that that you know, even
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 5: like led to like a good read of the movie.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean I do. I mean I
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: think that like something like a huge difference between The
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: Argentle One and this one that I liked was that
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: like in the Argentle One, Susie is like the like
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: American girl next door character. You you are sort of
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: like led to believe she's inherently trustworthy because she is
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: like young and pretty and white and from America, and
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: so you're like, well, yeah, sure, this is a little
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: sweety pie. I trust her, And I like that the
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: that the twenty eighteen one is like, yeah, I did
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: sort of assume that of the Dakota Johnson character when
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, she's just a little girl from Ohio,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: like she's out of her element, and and to like
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: give her more intention and more power than I had,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: like it challenged whatever my assumption of that character. And
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: that was cool because it's like, you know, not every
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: and and like this movie, I'm all over the place
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: about it. But this movie does clearly have an interest
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: in the idea of like what purity is and what
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: it means, because it's something that comes up over and
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: over and over. And one of the things that like
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: was I think like easiest to get rid of from
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: the seventies one is like there's sort of a vague
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: implication of like a love interest for Susy from a
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: male dancer because it's an all genders dance studio in
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: the first one, and they get rid of that really quickly.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: But I don't know, just like the idea that like
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: being involved in this coven in a meaningful way also
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: has to do with some sort of purity, and that's
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: kept pretty vague. You don't know like what you need
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: to be pure of or about. But it felt like
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: the twenty eighteen one had some interest in the idea
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: of purity. I'm not really sure where it fell, but
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting that it brought that idea up,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: because that was something that in the first one I
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: felt was like assumed and very much like played on
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: your assumptions about who you're looking at. Where esca Harper
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: character you're like, oh, yeah, sure, I trust.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: Her, And this one too, there was no like exploitation.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: I didn't feel of their sexuality at all, like male
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: gaze women sexuality, like whatever was going on with them
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: sexually which was something quite vague, was also something very internal,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: which I can you know, I'm there for that, you know,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: like it had nothing to do with almost other the sexuality,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: and this film is very self generated and not that much,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: which is really rare when that many beautiful women like
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: naked in a film. I can't really think of another
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 4: that didn't even broach that barely. I don't know.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: I like that a lot.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: And whatever. We didn't talk at all about the dreams
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 4: that she's having, which I thought were really cool visually,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: whatever that is in this light and whatever, the like
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: indoctrination thing that there's spell they're putting on her. I
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 4: don't know. I really enjoyed that. And that again was
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: whatever this like auto sexuality that's happening. I don't know.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: I thought that was very unique to this film.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because so well, I brought up the like her
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: she's like I can do it, because I watched a
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 3: documentary just to demonstrate that. She's very confident and she's like,
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: so for her to be like, yeah, I can dance
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: the lead and it turns out she's right. I mean,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: she ends up being the best dancer it's implied at
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: the company, and which just feels, I guess, like kind
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: of foreshadowing of what's to come. As far as like twist,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: I'm mother suspiriorum and I have been all along, but
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: I just, like you were saying, Jamie, like playing to
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: people's expectations of like a you know, a soft spoken,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: quiet woman being trustworthy and just apparently nice and the
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: person we're going to root for. I feel like was
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: set up to better serve the twist that she's actually
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: the meanest witch of them all. But is she the
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: meanest because she does like show compassion to you know,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: Sarah and Patricia and Olga who are like begging for
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: death and she's like, yeah, babe, got you, no problem.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: May we all have a friend so merciful to provide
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: the sweet release of death?
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: So I don't even know if I have any kind
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: of like conclusive thoughts on this, as far as like
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 3: the way Susie is portrayed and her arc and the
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: way she's initially characterized versus like her coming into her
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: own power, and like you were talking about Alison, like
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: her sexuality in a way that is completely separate from men,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: and it's just like her kind of having sex with
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: the ground sometimes like kind of writhing around and just
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: sort of fucking the ground here and there. And then
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: there's that scene where I mean we've all done.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean if you get too close to a
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: dryer and it's in heat, a dryer in.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: Heat, Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then there's like that scene
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: that conversation between Madame Blanc and Susie where where Madame
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: Blanc is like, how did it feel to dance? And
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: She's like it felt like what I imagine it feels like
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: to fuck? And she's like, oh, like to fuck a
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: man And Susie's like, no, I was thinking of an animal,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: which I don't quite know how to inter.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: That's that's my language. I was like in it with that,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 4: like I was way more interested than if it was
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 4: about fucking a man, Like.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 5: Thank god, yeah, like that's a redemption.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, we.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 4: All know that.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 5: I feel like, yeah, I don't know, and I mean, like,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 5: let me just say something else awful, Like they're like,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 5: there's so I just as a viewer, you know, now,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 5: it's like I see so many things that you know,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 5: in a good way, you know, are are trying not
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: to equate female sexuality with you know, being like out
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 5: of control or you know, morally wrong that like sometimes
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 5: it's just maybe especially like in like if you can't
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 5: do it in Horror. I don't know, Like in Horror,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 5: I think sometimes it's just fun that like you're really
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 5: horny because of the devil. I was raised Catholic, Like
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 5: I don't know, but like for me, that was just
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 5: kind of like yeah, you know, like you you leave
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 5: the farm, you know, like you get the devil and
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 5: like then like you know, you are like an erotic
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 5: fucking dancer, you know, and I mean like they they
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 5: are dancing like so fucking erotically. Yeah, yeah, like maybe
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 5: because of Satan and I just enjoyed that.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: Sorry so sorry, no, no, I'm just processed it.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 4: We're pretty dark sided. So like you know, you just
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: you should have known who you were discussing this movie.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 4: We should have done truth beverly because it would have
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: been a much better take.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: We would have had a had it little do.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: You know that? I am mothers.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 5: Spira, You are the hollowest comfortable.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: Thank you finally somewhere welcome. I admitted it.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's like, especially with scenes
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: about sex and purity, there's like a bajillion ways to
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: look at it, some of which I think are really
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: horny and cool, and then it's like others are not,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: and and that's part of why it's a movie and
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: you can see it however you want.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 5: But it's on the costumes help, Like I I mean,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 5: I think they're like show Girls level, you know what
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, Like I feel like too, if you're like
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 5: sexy and like an interesting enough costume.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 3: This is just me.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 5: I just feel like you like transcend gate like somehow
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 5: you just like you go outside of like the like
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 5: normal realm of just kind of like sex objectness.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: And even the middle aged woman as a middle aged
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: women were really sexy too in this movie, in a
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: completely unusual take on you know, no plastic surgery, no
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: like I'm trying to look young but I'm actually sixty
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 4: years old. Like they were all kind of sexy and
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 4: this really fun different I don't know European people get
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 4: to do that or something way that I was personally
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 4: very impressed by and got some maybe style tips like
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 4: again for the age, super cool and you know, I
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 4: don't know, I thought they were.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: It's all about the middle part, baby middle part, Yeah,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: I mean it's because I read I tried to read
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: a fair like swath of criticism and praise of this movie,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: and I read some writers who came down firmly that
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: the way that Susie's sexual awakening is framed kind of
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: plays into tropes of how women's sexuality is seen as
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: dangerous and devious, and how like women's confidence is seen
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: as like inherently bad. If you view the ending as
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: Susie being inherently bad, but you can also see it
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: in a way that's like really fucking cool, and a
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: way that the fact that, like the way that sex
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: is or even just like horniness in general in this
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: movie is shown is very like individual, like no one
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: is hooking up at all, like the way that people
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: view sex like they're fucking themselves and they're fucking the ground.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: It's like women figuring out sex in a very individual way,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: which you don't really see a lot, and like I
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: kind of I don't know, it's kind of fun to
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: see a gorgeous woman fuck the ground. I liked that part,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: but then I read criticism of it, and I was like,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: was I wrong for liking the part where Dakota Johnson
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: fucked the ground and I was like, no, I'm not No,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: two things can be true.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 4: We're all I didn't read any criticism of the movie,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 4: but I will say no.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: I will say no. I have a quote here. I
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: wanted to share it because I was looking for sort
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: of like if there was any sort of thesis statement
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: that Luca Guagnino had made about this movie, about what
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: we were talking about specifically, And there was an interview
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: he did when the movie around, when the movie came
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: out on movie that sort of addresses this, and it
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: also addresses his hyspiia in relation to Argento's suspiria. So
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: this for the room. He says this in twenty eighteen quote.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: The focus of Dario's movie was the idea of older
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: women recruiting younger women. The relationship between the girls and
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: the matrons of My Dance Academy is quite different, as
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: they are terrible mothers aside from casting their magic spells
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: ideal in the concept of the uncompromising force of motherhood,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: a mother is supposed to be caring, nurturing, unbiased, and devoted.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: But what if that is all our own prejudgment? Even
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: if you are the most radical person you think of
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: motherhood adhering to accepted norms, but real danger lies in
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: that presumption, as motherhood comes from deep conflict, the banality
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: of postpartum depression, the refusal to bond with the child,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: and the complexity of the relationship between mother and daughter
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: that can often turn into a competition. If you make
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: a movie about witches, basically a group of women bound
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: to a pact of solidarity and sorority with power within themselves,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: you have to be open to the possibility that they
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: aren't just simple evil care characters. They are very complex
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: ones and it's not all about nature and nurture unquote.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: So that's what I've got with Luca and the girlies.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 5: I wish I hadn't heard that.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 4: Also, Yeah, that's I really usually read absolutely nothing about movies,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 4: and I don't like to read what people say about it.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 4: But yeah, no, that's not less interesting than my thoughts
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 4: on it, just you know, because I don't think at
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 4: least I was an understanding like that any kind of
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 4: like mothers have to be one way or another, Like
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of ways to be a mother, and
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 4: I don't you know, So I don't know.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: I apologize for sharing that quote, but I did it
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: on purpose, because I just feel like I don't know,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: Like I'm not trying to imply that it is impossible
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: for a man to make a feminist movie. We have
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: found on this show that that is absolutely not true. However,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: it is statistically unlikely, and sometimes if they do it,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: it is sometimes by accident, or maybe it is like
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: the way that the movie is received in the general sense,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: or received by women and feminists is not necessarily the way,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: Like it's sort of a mistake and you kind of
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: stumbled into this, which is like still net good for
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: the world if there is a feminist movie out there,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: even if you didn't mean to. But I just do
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: I think that I'm trying to think of I know
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: that there's at least one other example of a movie
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: we've covered on the show that it's like a movie
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: about women that is two times over been adapted by
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: only men, and I feel like that more often than
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: not results in kind of what we've been bumping up
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: against this whole episode, like for better or worse, like
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of dissonance and like not a lot of clarity,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: which can be fun because it means it's sort of
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: like a fun house whatever it's Olga's death Room. It's
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: a fucking fun house mirror full of ways to view
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: what you think is being told based on who you
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: are and how you feel about it. But it just
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: feels like I don't know this movie for all the
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: parts that I liked and all the parts I did,
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: and it just felt a little ultimately kind of muddled
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: and unclear. And I cannot definitively say it's because it's
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: a story, like it's a story about a coven of
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: women that is only that has been told conceived of,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: and I did even deeper research all of the texts
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: that are cited as being influential on like psychology also men.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: It's just like in the way that we I think, oh,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about Carrie, about how Carrie's written by Stephen
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: King and adapted by Di Palma and other men, where
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: there's a lot to love about that movie, and there's
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: a lot that we loved about that movie, but there's
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of dissonance because it's sort of men guessing
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: around women's experiences in a way that when it hits,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: it's great, and when it doesn't, it's completely baffling because
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: you're like, what are they trying to say. And that's
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: I think kind of ultimately where I come down in
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: this movie. Yeah, there's like it really is.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this isn't like the super insightful movie about mothers
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: or women. I would definitely not, like, you know, for me,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 4: that maybe be like terms of endearment James Brooks, Like,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: you know, that's like a great Mother Daughter by a
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: Man movie.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, I haven't seen that movie in forever.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really it's one of my favorite movies.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 4: I also watch a lot of stuff about mothers and
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 4: daughters and it's like a whole you know again, I
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: like the Gilmore Girls will have too, But I don't
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 4: think this is that, And I wouldn't want to hear
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 4: whatever the director's name is thoughts about motherhood. But I
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 4: you know, I personally am often more interested in, like,
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 4: you know, the bad mother's story than the super wonderful,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 4: redeeming isn't she just the greatest mother ever?
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: Story?
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: Yea, even something like Everything Everywhere, which is a mother
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 4: daughter's story very little sacraine for somebody like me, but
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 4: like so just for my own personal taste, like I
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 4: prefer like a big you know, swing at just an
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 4: insane rabbit hole of motherhood. Then, like, you know, let's
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 4: just really try to as a man, get into that
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 4: mother daughter bond. I'm gonna I'm gonna crack the code
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 4: on that one. You know, I don't know, just stay
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 4: out of it. But if you if you're gonna get
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 4: into it, like I'd rather see this, I guess.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 5: I mean, everybody comes out unscathed, right, you know motherhood
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 5: Nobody you know, like, yeah, he got that part.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: We all have baby hands on us the end of
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: the day.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 4: You don't know what's underneath this moomo who I'm wearing.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 4: You have no idea what's underneath?
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't want to, I guess. Like for me,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 3: it's I think there is room to examine stories about
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: mothers and their children, and specifically mothers and daughters and
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 3: every way that dynamic could possibly go Like that is,
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 3: those are relationship dynamics worth exploring in movies that rarely
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 3: are explored because most movies, as we always joke about,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 3: but it's true, are about fathers and sons, and so yeah,
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 3: it is rare to see a mother daughter relationship or
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: just like a depiction of motherhood on screen period. Even
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: attempted to explore right and then and then often when
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: it is it's it is sometimes still told by men,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: which means it's probably not going to be very nuanced
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: or it's going to come from a very male perspective.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: Is like, well, this is how I saw my sister
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 3: interact with my mom, and they were always fighting because
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: women are mad at each other all the time. So
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: that's what my movie is about, you know, that kind
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 3: of thing.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: And that even that's rare. But I'm like, oh, if
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: my brother made a movie about how he thought my
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: mom and my relationship was, it would just be incorrect.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: It would just be all made up. But that's on him,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: and that's a personal call out.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all that to say, like, there should be more
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 3: stories about motherhood. There should be more stories that explore
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: nuanced relationships between mothers and daughters or mother figures and
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 3: a younger generation, you know that kind of thing.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: But I felt like, not totally virtuous perfect moms the
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: way that we see that mothers. Maybe watcheth Asia.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 4: Better things. Pamela Adlon show is one of my other
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 4: personal favorite mother daughter, her mother, you know, like a
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 4: three generation mother story. This one had, I guess other
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 4: than the creepy, super malty witch woman was maybe their grandmother.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Anyway, I do like a sort of
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 4: multi generational mother story.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, another one we I'm trying. I mean, like Gilmore Girls.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: Another really fun one we just covered recently, Miss June teenth.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: That's a great mother daughter story. Like there's so many
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: good ones, and you know, I think sometimes even though
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: this movie was, you know, technically a flop, men work forever.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: They it's very hard for them to fail. And so
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: even though this was technically a fail, like a financial
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: failure for this director, he's fine. He has three production
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: He's fine. I haven't seen this is unrelated. I haven't
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: seen his next movie, Bones and all. Oh I did
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: hear it's horny and bloody. Is that true?
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 3: That is true? Okay, would other words to describe it,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 3: mostly that I didn't like it very much, But that's.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: Just my personal opinion either way. I mean, it's I
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: I like stories about motherhood, and there's I feel like
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: it is not a hot take to say that the
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: best ones and to be written by mother's I think
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: that's fair to say. So brave of you, we have
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: evidence in this very zoom call that that's the case.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 3: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: No, that's it for me.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 5: I would just say that, like, I love the extremity
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 5: you know of this movie, and I love how like
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 5: like the depths of how horrible a lot of the
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 5: mother figures get to be are just two things, two plugs.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 5: Since we talked about a lot of antis, I want
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 5: to make sure I represent that.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I just want to touch on that this
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 3: is a very white cast. Th There are a few
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: members of the staff and dancers who are women of color,
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: but they rarely get lines of dialogue, they get little
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: to no characterization. All of the important characters to the
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: narrative are white, and it just feels especially pointed that
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 3: the cast does include some women of color, but they
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: are really only there to be in the background. Yeah,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 3: and not at all in the foreground.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Only the white characters get any manner of character
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: arc in this movie.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I've never seen any other films by this director.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 4: They're Italian, but I don't know what their deal is
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 4: on that topic. Is one off of that or yeah,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 4: you know they're cast in their movie.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: I honestly don't either. I still have controversially not seen
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: call Me by your Name, So I don't know. I
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: did not see Bones and All. But yeah, I also
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: found it frustrating that it's like if the director clearly
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: wanted to have a diverse cast but didn't have an
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: interest in any character outside of the white actors. So
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: that feels double bad to me.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: I will say, Bones and All the Crown the main
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 3: character is a woman of color, so he course corrected
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: in that movie.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: Yay, Luca.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 4: I think they probably got the money for this for
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 4: Tilda Swinton and Dakota Yeah being in it. I assume
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 4: that's how this thing was funded. Yeah, and then moved
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 4: out from there. But yeah, I doubt this was an
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 4: easy funder. Whoever paid for this? I whatever? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine like finance bros who are like, yeah,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 3: i'll help fund your movie. Wait it's about a group.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: Of women, or even we're gonna have Tilda Swinton play
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: the six Flags guy, we need twenty million dollars.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 5: All they would have had to do is show a
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 5: clip of the floor, fucking like, honestly, now I think.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: You think that I don't.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 4: They didn't even show anyone breasts. That was the major people, right, Like,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: An outline of Dakota.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: It's until the end in the freaky blood covered security
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: footage that you see pretty much everyone that you see
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: me a gothnake, you see. But I mean whatever, Now
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: it sounds creepy and like, I'm keeping counts, so I'm
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: removing myself from this. I've seen him.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 5: Throw money, you know.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: Last Yeah, I was keeping account of how many nips
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: I saw and that's feminist, just kidding.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 3: Well, speaking of nips, though, first will before our nipple scale,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 3: we will pass once again remind you that the movie
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 3: definitely passes the Bechdel test.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: Almost over and over. Yeah, yes, yes, except for Flags
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: guy or exchanges about the six Flags guy, that's pretty much.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 3: It, which again played by a woman. And we talked
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 3: about gender swapped casting recently on the Hairspray episode because
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 3: John Traval took place a woman and how it's very
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 3: rare for a woman to play a male character, and
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: this movie is actually one of the few examples I
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 3: can think of where that happens. And I think till
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 3: Swinton does a great job in that performance and in
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 3: every performance in this movie, and just in general, in
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 3: every movie she's in. But she does such a convincing
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: job that there were members of the cast of this
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: movie who didn't know that that was Tilda Swinton. So
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: should that be allowed?
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: Like should that be allowed?
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 3: That does seem to see what do you mean?
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 4: Like in like a brad grandpat kind of way, like
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 4: you know, like what do you mean?
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 5: I like, I just wonder if I'm like at work
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 5: doing my job, not consenting, you know, to like not
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 5: know who people really are, that's fair.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 4: Oh so if you're like, oh my god, till such
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 4: a bitch and then you like you tell the old guy,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 4: You're like.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm like, thank fucking god, I'm not paint
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 5: in the barn until the Swinton today.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, oh no, I'm fired. It could happen.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: She's a chameleon to everyone else's professional detriment. I don't know. Yeah,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: that's the only thing, because yeah, that's the only thing
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: I specifically remember about this movie's like press run was
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: that at some point it was revealed that till the
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: Swinton was the six Flags guy, and once it was
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: in like the New York Times, like till the Swinton
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: announces she's the six Flags guy, and once you know.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 3: You don't see the resemblance the sixth Fox guy doesn't
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 3: have hair.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: Once you see, once you know that that character is
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: played by Tildeswinton, it is very clear in like the
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: voice mostly but I just thought that was funny that that.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: I don't have an opinion on it, but that's like
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: the thing I most clearly remember. I don't remember it
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: being like it's a reinterpretation of this beloved slasher film.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: It was like, did you know that till this Winton
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: put on a lot of makeup every day, just like
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: when Jim Carrey was The Grinch? And I didn't know that,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: and then I proceeded to not see it in theaters?
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: So what does that say about me? Anyway?
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: So onto our nipple scale, where we rate the movie
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 3: on a scale of zero to five nipples based on
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 3: examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. Again, I
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 3: am still not quite sure how I feel about the movie.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 3: I think things are presented that allow for a read
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 3: of like, this is a movie about almost entirely women
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 3: who are powerful and who are expressing themselves creatively, and
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 3: the dynamics between and among them are interesting, you could argue,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 3: And there are strong themes of motherhood and of female
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: creativity and other things that we tend to talk about.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 3: So on the surface, I think it's like pretty cool
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 3: a lot of the things that this movie is doing,
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: but I can't shake the feeling that it I think
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 3: if this a similar premise was handed over to a
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 3: writer and director who was a woman and who had
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 3: a much closer relationship with motherhood, or being a daughter
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 3: who had a mother, who has a mother, of being
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 3: a woman who expresses creativity, like and just like knowing
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: how groups of women as witches are so often represented
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 3: in film, and maybe trying to subvert some of those
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 3: tropes and subverting the tropes of an older woman being
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 3: grotesque and wanting to steal the body of a younger woman,
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 3: you know, things like that.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: But I do.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 5: I'm old, and I want to steal.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 4: Till you get there, wait till you get there. I'm
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 4: just saying, gimme, gim me, gim me, gimme.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: But but here's what I'm gonna I'm just gonna suck
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 3: the blood of young men. And that's how I'll stay youthful.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 4: They're not as nearly as beautiful. I'm sorry one woman's opinion.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't cross the street to.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 3: I I don't know. I think this movie there's interesting things.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 3: I think visually it's cool and beautiful. I just still
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 3: don't know quite what I'm supposed to take away as
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 3: far as like the filmmaker's intentions. I think there's some
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 3: muddled stuff there that to me appear to just be
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 3: relying on tropes of well, powerful women who are near
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: each other, Well, they are witches and they're gonna kill you.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 3: But also it could just be an examination of power
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: regardless of gender, of the gender of the person who
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 3: is wielding that power, like that power needs to be
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 3: kept in check, and you know, just because a woman
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 3: has power doesn't mean that she should abuse it or something.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know. There are a lot of different ways
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: to read the story of this movie, But I don't know.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 3: I just I'm so tired of like women are witches
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 3: and evil stories. So I think I'll give the movie, like,
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know, two two and a half nipples, and
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 3: I will give one to Dakota. What is it not
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: Fanning Johnson Coda Johnson, I will give one to alec Weck,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 3: who plays the one of the matrons. She is I
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 3: think the only black woman in the movie who has lines,
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: and she only has like two of them, And I'll
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 3: give my I'll give my half nipple to friend of
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: the cast Jessica Harper.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: Kay. Yeah, I'm gonna go down the middle on this
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: movie as well. I do think I am like, maybe
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: this opinion I will will be changed, as with most
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: opinions that we've had at various points on this show
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: over time, but this does feel very much to me,
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: even though it was in reduction and in development for
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: so long, the way that it came out feels very
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: of a very specific cultural moment where I think you
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: get a lot of male o tours attempts at having
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: women meaningfully included in their movies, and I think that
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: this very much depends from director to director level of success,
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: level of possibly pandering or guessing their way around an
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: experience that they don't share. It's just like, it just
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: feels very men are making movies post me too, and
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: look at this one a lot of like we've been
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: talking about for the past two hours, not all of
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: it works for me. I think that, yeah, there is
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of saying the right thing, but the theme
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: kind of undermining the right thing quote unquote that was said.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: And then there is a lot of like I think,
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: interesting ideas in this movie. I like the historical context
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: it puts everyone into building out the worlds of the
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: women that exist within this coven. I like the fact that,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: like I like the just general idea because I feel like,
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: in this same span of time and I think this
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: is continuing now, there is this sort of very naive
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: assumption that if if women ruled the world, everything would
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: be perfect, and you're like, well, that excludes literally every
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: other possible element of being a person in a way
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: that is ultimately I think reductive to women to think
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: that women would completely get it right when there's still
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: very much human and there's all of these other elements
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: that factor into being a person. So I like that
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: the women in this story are imperfect in different ways,
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: but overall, especially after reading how the director was kind
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: of gaming it out, I think a lot of it
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 2: doesn't work and it's not something I will revisit, but
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: you know it I would love to see as much
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: Like I like that Luca Guadnino did this but I
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: would love to see more Coven stories that are written
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: by women. If they're going to majority include women, it
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: still feels like that isn't happening on the level it
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: should be. And in conclusion, I think that's why people
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: should watch teenage Euthanasia. And so I'm going to give
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: this two and a half nipples. I'm going to give
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: one to Dakota Johnson's architectural digest house video, which you
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: can watch on YouTube. It is so funny. She's lying
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: out her ass the whole time. She's some of the
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: only good nepotism available. As far as I know, I
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: love her. I'm going to give one to me a goth,
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: and I will give the remaining half nipple to the
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: Six Flags guy, the actual one.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 3: Oh sure do do do do?
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: Do?
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: Do?
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 5: Do? Do?
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly and so on.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm not going to defend this this movie to
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 4: the end of the earth. But I enjoyed watching it,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 4: and I enjoyed watching it the first time, and this
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 4: time I like things that are kind of a mess
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 4: that you don't know what to make. It's again a
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 4: personal preference. I don't like a I don't like a
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 4: straight line. I don't like a I like a pretzel,
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 4: and I don't like when people tell me what to think,
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 4: because then I immediately stopped thinking it. So for those people,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 4: you might like this, and then I thought it was
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 4: again I'm all into anything about women creativity. So I
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 4: don't know. I'm gonna give it a three nipple. I'm
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 4: not going more than that, but I'm gonna go a
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 4: little higher, and I'm going to give one to me
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 4: a goth, and one to the production designer and the
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 4: wardrobe hair team because it was really fun. Editors were
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 4: good too. It was a well made movie.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, technically, no denying that.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 5: Hell yeah, can I can I give hollow counts instead
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 5: of nipples? Yeah, okay. If it didn't have Tilda eating
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 5: chicken wings, I I think then I would give it
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 5: a three. But it does have have that, And it
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 5: was really hard to watch all of the bone breaky thing,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 5: you know, like it's very very difficult, you know, to
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 5: to make me look away. And I thought that, yeah,
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 5: a lot of like the bone breaky horror.
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 4: Was good, and bone breaky stuff was about the chicken wings.
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: The most painful views.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 5: I mean, if we could have extended that sequence, yeah,
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 5: then it could have been five hollow cunts. I'm gonna
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 5: I'm going to go three point five hollow cunts.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 4: I'm going to do that.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 5: I like, it's just a weird one, you know, it's
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 5: a it's a problematic weird one.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: And I liked the ride. And I'll give all.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 5: Of the hollow cunts to the super witch Mother creature.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 5: She needs all the teats and the cunts that she
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 5: can find, you know.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: Hell yea.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's collecting them for an undisclosed.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: Later project, so that she's had in development for the
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: amount of time this movie was in development exactly.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you both so much for joining us for
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 3: this discussion.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this was funny.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: Time tell us about teenage Euthanasia and where you can
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: check it out.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 5: Well, you can check it out on Adult Swim. New
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 5: episodes drop on Wednesday nights at midnight, and then they're
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 5: available the next day on Max. You can slide right
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 5: into season two. You don't need to watch season one first.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 5: You can you can kind of like dip, you know,
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 5: to your hollow count in the water with season two,
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 5: and then you know, if you like how it feels,
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 5: you can watch season one. But they are Season one
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 5: is up in its entirety on Max to stream and
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 5: available and it is about, yeah, we have we have
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 5: definitely the dysfunctional matriarchy family funeral home that is run
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 5: by a woman. It's three generations of you know, female
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 5: characters passing their trauma down to the other in kind
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 5: of like a parallel universe post apocalyptic Florida.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 4: And if you like hollow cunts, you might be disappointed
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 4: because the main character's vagina is filled with crotch, beetles,
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 4: magical ones. She's a zombie, reanimated corpse and who has
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 4: death powers. And also it's animated. We don't have Suspiria
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 4: level budgets here, so this is an animated program.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, no, still amazing it is.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: It is if you like the opposite of a hollowed
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: out cunt and just one that is so full, just
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: an over a cornucopia of various with insight, is a
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: teeming cunt, well then do we have the show for you.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: I feel like I should also full disclosure, I'm a
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: writer on the show and I love it very much
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: and I think you should watch it because it rocks
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: and it's teeming with you know, vaginas full of beetles, and.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 5: You, I've got to say, have just brought the grossness
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 5: and the body hord to a level that I think
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 5: Alison and I could have only dreamed of in our
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 5: conception of teenage usanasia. So we are just so in
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 5: our gratitude to you for that.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a tip of the cunt to you, Jamie. It's
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 4: just an absolute pleasure.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: Oh my cunt runneth over, Thank you so much. No,
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: it's it's the absolute best. I love shoving new disgusting
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: insects into our characters.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 4: It's the greatest.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: And you can find the Betel Cast in all their
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: regular places. You can find us on Instagram and whatever
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: they're calling it now on at Bechtel Cast. You can
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: follow our Patreon ak Matreon Wow, pretty scary German dance
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: study of us. For five dollars a month, you get
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: two bonus episodes a month. Imagine that.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 3: Imagine that. You can also grab our merch at teapublic
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 3: dot com slash the Bechtel Cast for all of your
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 3: merchandising needs. And just a little reminder that all of
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 3: our merch is designed by a one Jamie Loftus, so
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 3: even more reason to get it.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: Cunt run of Over, for merch with them.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 3: Many talents you go, okay, let's all right, go with
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 3: into the basement and dance around shed top rotting hearts.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: Bye bye