Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 920: Foundations - Whitetail Rules are Made to be Broken (Sometimes)
Transcript
- 0:01Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide
- 0:05Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting, presented by first Light,
- 0:09Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.
- 0:14Speaker 1: First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host
- 0:19Speaker 1: Tony Peterson.
- 0:20Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome to the Wire to Hunt Foundations podcast,
- 0:22Speaker 2: which is brought to you by first Light. I'm your host,
- 0:25Speaker 2: Tony Peterson. In today's episode is all about the rules
- 0:27Speaker 2: we think exists for white tails and why we should
- 0:30Speaker 2: be careful about sticking too tightly to them. This one's
- 0:35Speaker 2: kind of a fun one for me because I'm largely
- 0:38Speaker 2: a contrarian at heart. I also have a deer hunting
- 0:41Speaker 2: background that started with a question everything type of attitude.
- 0:45Speaker 2: You know what, Actually, that's not entirely true. It was
- 0:47Speaker 2: just that my dad and I weren't very good at it,
- 0:49Speaker 2: so we kind of just did things the way we wanted.
- 0:51Speaker 2: And he's the kind of guy who would just try
- 0:53Speaker 2: something crazy hunting wise, just to see and while it
- 0:56Speaker 2: really worked out, sometimes it did. And I'm the same
- 0:59Speaker 2: way and this has shaped almost everything I've thought about
- 1:03Speaker 2: when it comes to deer hunting. So Buckle up because
- 1:05Speaker 2: it's time to break some of the hard and fast
- 1:07Speaker 2: deer behavior and hunting strategy rules and kill some bucks. Anyway,
- 1:16Speaker 2: as I said, this is a fun one for me.
- 1:18Speaker 2: But let me make this clear right from the start,
- 1:21Speaker 2: what I mean by white tail rules throughout this podcast
- 1:25Speaker 2: are not the laws and regulations you should obey those.
- 1:30Speaker 2: I'm not giving you the green light to go shoot
- 1:31Speaker 2: a bunch of velvet bucks over a bait pile in August,
- 1:34Speaker 2: well before the actual season opens up. But instead, I
- 1:37Speaker 2: just want to talk about how we make up our
- 1:39Speaker 2: minds that things are a certain way when they often aren't.
- 1:43Speaker 2: Let's start with a non deer hunting situation here that
- 1:46Speaker 2: I've talked about a few times but I think really
- 1:48Speaker 2: encapsulates this whole idea. Last year, when I was baiting
- 1:53Speaker 2: bears for my daughter in Wisconsin, we had exactly two
- 1:56Speaker 2: bears to work with. One was a monster boy with
- 2:00Speaker 2: a belly hanging on the ground. And while everyone says this,
- 2:03Speaker 2: I promise you in this case it's true. He was
- 2:06Speaker 2: well over three hundred pounds. The other was much more
- 2:09Speaker 2: of your typical yogi, you know, like the one hundred
- 2:11Speaker 2: and fifty pound type bear. Now that big bruin. He
- 2:15Speaker 2: was a nighttime visitor. He knew the game and he
- 2:18Speaker 2: was good at it. The younger one wasn't, so that
- 2:21Speaker 2: became our target bear. Now, if you know anything about bears,
- 2:25Speaker 2: they get hunted a lot. They do a pretty good
- 2:27Speaker 2: job of leaning into the nocturnal game. Now, if you
- 2:30Speaker 2: don't know anything about the general rules for bear hunting,
- 2:34Speaker 2: you also know that afternoons are when ninety nine point
- 2:37Speaker 2: seven percent of all bear hunters sit. Of course, i'm
- 2:40Speaker 2: talking about baited bear hunts here. Those hunters, they'll tell
- 2:43Speaker 2: you with very much confidence that there is no reason
- 2:47Speaker 2: to hunt mornings or in most cases even the lunch shift.
- 2:50Speaker 2: It's afternoons and evenings. Now, while you would never confuse
- 2:54Speaker 2: me for an expert bear hunter, I've always just followed
- 2:57Speaker 2: that line of thinking. After all, how the whole culture
- 3:00Speaker 2: around that type of bear hunting have it wrong. The
- 3:04Speaker 2: trouble is, if you have a limited amount of licorice
- 3:07Speaker 2: trail mix out and you have two bears competing for
- 3:10Speaker 2: those calories, they'll just generally sort themselves out into some
- 3:14Speaker 2: level of avoidance through their visits. Or, more specifically, if
- 3:19Speaker 2: a bear is double the size of another, bear, the
- 3:22Speaker 2: smaller one will do a hell of a good job
- 3:24Speaker 2: of avoiding the big one. And if that big one
- 3:27Speaker 2: is nocturnal, the smaller one is going to be a
- 3:29Speaker 2: daylight visitor. That's it. And because the fall is the
- 3:33Speaker 2: time when bears like to eat just like pigs, you know,
- 3:36Speaker 2: and to bulk up for hibernation, those daylight visits might
- 3:40Speaker 2: happen multiple times during those daylight hours. That's what my
- 3:45Speaker 2: daughter's bear was doing. So, in a weird move to
- 3:47Speaker 2: maximize one of the three days we had to hunt,
- 3:49Speaker 2: we went in at sunrise and she shot that bear
- 3:52Speaker 2: at noon. It was one of my top ten coolest
- 3:54Speaker 2: hunting experiences ever, and it was made possible simply by
- 3:58Speaker 2: breaking the general rule of when we should hunt. You're
- 4:03Speaker 2: probably listening to this going, well, dumb man, you have
- 4:06Speaker 2: pictures of a yogi come in in at all hours
- 4:09Speaker 2: of the day to feed, You go in, you cover
- 4:11Speaker 2: those hours of the day. But this is where I'll
- 4:13Speaker 2: kindly steer you to the deer world and ask if
- 4:16Speaker 2: it's so easy for you to go against the grain
- 4:19Speaker 2: and try something that is genuinely thought of as a
- 4:21Speaker 2: no go proposition. Now, what do I mean by that?
- 4:25Speaker 2: Let me count the waves. How About here's a simple one,
- 4:29Speaker 2: hunting mornings in the early season. How About snort wheezing
- 4:33Speaker 2: two one hundred and three inch two and a half
- 4:34Speaker 2: year old on Halloween. He's probably not the dominant buck,
- 4:37Speaker 2: is he. How About snort wheezing to that deer in September?
- 4:41Speaker 2: Pretty dumb right. How About taking a swing at your
- 4:44Speaker 2: number one hit lister in your number one stand site
- 4:46Speaker 2: well before he starts daylighting on your cameras. How About
- 4:51Speaker 2: hunting hard during the middle of October when you know
- 4:53Speaker 2: damn well that none of the bucks are moving because
- 4:56Speaker 2: they are all mandated by deer latigo nocturnal during the lull.
- 5:00Speaker 2: Do you know why all of those rules have kind
- 5:03Speaker 2: of entered to zeitgeist and stuck right on our slightly
- 5:06Speaker 2: smooth brains, Because we have to vicariously learn some of
- 5:10Speaker 2: this stuff, and to do that we follow people who
- 5:13Speaker 2: seem to be a hell of a lot better than
- 5:14Speaker 2: us at killing deer. But their rules are not good
- 5:17Speaker 2: for you. And I promise you that even though they
- 5:20Speaker 2: kill two hundred inch deer frequently and you don't. The
- 5:24Speaker 2: reason for this is because the deer behavior varies so
- 5:27Speaker 2: much by state and county and property in region and whatever.
- 5:31Speaker 2: Are there general behaviors that transcend locality. Absolutely, there's also
- 5:36Speaker 2: the depths of nuance to any situation that creates scenarios
- 5:39Speaker 2: here but not there, and there but not here. Let
- 5:43Speaker 2: me give you an example. I have permission to hunt
- 5:46Speaker 2: a large dairy farm in southeastern Minnesota that I talk
- 5:48Speaker 2: about sometimes. That property borders another property that one of
- 5:53Speaker 2: my buddies' leases, and it also borders a small property
- 5:56Speaker 2: that is generally treated as a deer sanctuary. Now, my
- 6:00Speaker 2: property is the opposite of what you'd call a deer sanctuary.
- 6:04Speaker 2: A lot of people hunt it, and the landowner would
- 6:07Speaker 2: like it if lots of deer were shot out of there,
- 6:09Speaker 2: and he does his best to facilitate that every year,
- 6:11Speaker 2: and the deer know it. So a lot of the
- 6:15Speaker 2: deer that I end up with on my property at
- 6:19Speaker 2: some point of the season often move to those other
- 6:22Speaker 2: two properties, and as the season progresses, the differential in
- 6:26Speaker 2: pressure has a major effect on a lot of things,
- 6:29Speaker 2: including the dispersal of big bucks. Now, when the pre
- 6:32Speaker 2: rut kicks in, my buddy hunts his lease and is
- 6:35Speaker 2: generally covered in good deer chasing and doing their thing,
- 6:39Speaker 2: and it's literally right across the fence, literally in a
- 6:44Speaker 2: place where I can see from some of my stands,
- 6:47Speaker 2: and yet on my property I struggle to see good
- 6:50Speaker 2: bucks and sometimes any bucks. It's not even close to
- 6:53Speaker 2: the same experience, even though the properties are very close.
- 6:57Speaker 2: So what does that mean? Well, for starters, the rules
- 7:00Speaker 2: he should follow wouldn't make much sense for me, would they.
- 7:03Speaker 2: I'm dealing with just a vastly different scenario. And what's worse,
- 7:07Speaker 2: if I didn't know any better and he were to
- 7:09Speaker 2: tell me what he was doing to get on deer,
- 7:12Speaker 2: and then I were to try those things, they probably
- 7:14Speaker 2: wouldn't work for me. Now, imagine someone who owns a
- 7:18Speaker 2: thousand acres in southern Iowa telling the masses that the
- 7:21Speaker 2: deer rules are this and not that according to his experience.
- 7:25Speaker 2: Do you think that makes a whole lot of sense
- 7:27Speaker 2: for the hunter in Georgia who has to fight the
- 7:29Speaker 2: crowds on public land. Academically, it just doesn't work. Yet
- 7:33Speaker 2: we all kind of fall into this trap often. And
- 7:36Speaker 2: do you know why? At least this is my thought anyway,
- 7:40Speaker 2: I think the rules we think deer follow scare us,
- 7:44Speaker 2: And really, why wouldn't they rules are meant to encourage
- 7:48Speaker 2: specific behavior, and without consequences for not doing those behaviors,
- 7:52Speaker 2: then they don't matter. So we believe if we don't
- 7:55Speaker 2: follow the rules, we will not kill deer, and worse,
- 7:58Speaker 2: we will actually make it harder on ourselves in the future.
- 8:03Speaker 2: Most of these rules come from the line of thinking
- 8:05Speaker 2: that you'll do more harm than good. So don't hunt,
- 8:08Speaker 2: don't scout, don't go in and blow those bucks up
- 8:11Speaker 2: before they get carryless and start to move a lot
- 8:13Speaker 2: during daylight. It's a calculation, you know, that makes sense
- 8:16Speaker 2: for maybe five percent of the deer hunters out there.
- 8:20Speaker 2: The further you are from a really good property that
- 8:22Speaker 2: is well managed, the less likely those general deer rules
- 8:26Speaker 2: are worth following. Part of this is simply because you
- 8:29Speaker 2: can predict the behavior of your fellow hunters, because they
- 8:33Speaker 2: are going to more or less follow the general rules.
- 8:37Speaker 2: The big one, of course, is you know when to hunt.
- 8:40Speaker 2: Most hunters won't hunt the lull. Most hunters will hunt
- 8:43Speaker 2: the rut. Simple right now, Imagine what the deer do
- 8:46Speaker 2: in response to that. Most hunters won't hunt when it's
- 8:49Speaker 2: super hot, but they will when a cold front hits.
- 8:52Speaker 2: What do you think deer do in response to that?
- 8:55Speaker 2: And how many hunters are we talking about in your
- 8:57Speaker 2: neck of the woods, because that's what really matters. Now,
- 9:11Speaker 2: think about this another way. Some of the general deer
- 9:14Speaker 2: rules are probably pretty good ones to follow, but we
- 9:17Speaker 2: often don't take the all day sits during the rut.
- 9:21Speaker 2: For example, here, you want to kill more big bucks,
- 9:24Speaker 2: that's one of your answers. You won't shoot one at
- 9:27Speaker 2: noon every year, But if you're in the habit of
- 9:29Speaker 2: all day sits, you'll get a few really good midday
- 9:32Speaker 2: opportunities every decade of your deer hunting life. Now, maybe
- 9:35Speaker 2: that means only one or two more mounts on your wall,
- 9:39Speaker 2: but that's enough to get a guy like minis it
- 9:40Speaker 2: all day. The best way to look at this might
- 9:43Speaker 2: simply be to ask yourself, how do I know this
- 9:47Speaker 2: rule is a good one? Did I hear it over
- 9:50Speaker 2: and over from people who seem to have a real
- 9:52Speaker 2: handle on deer hunting? Okay? But have I witnessed it firsthand?
- 9:58Speaker 2: Have I tried this thing or not? Take the snort
- 10:02Speaker 2: wheeze deal that I talk about all the time. Last
- 10:05Speaker 2: year I snort weezed in a really good North Dakota
- 10:07Speaker 2: buck on public land and missed him, which you can
- 10:10Speaker 2: watch over at the mediater dot com. My cameraman for
- 10:13Speaker 2: that hunt is a really good deer hunter, but since
- 10:16Speaker 2: our timing was outside the rut, he thought it was
- 10:19Speaker 2: nuts that I was snort wheezing at that buck. After
- 10:22Speaker 2: the whole encounter, he told me that flat out, he
- 10:24Speaker 2: thought there was no way that was going to work.
- 10:26Speaker 2: But it took like four storm wheezes and that buck
- 10:29Speaker 2: came right in. Now, my camera guy, he's a really
- 10:33Speaker 2: good deer hunter, really good. But in his head, he
- 10:36Speaker 2: had a rule about snort wheezing, and you only do
- 10:38Speaker 2: it during the rut and only on really big deer.
- 10:41Speaker 2: When you believe that, Will you ever snort wheeze at
- 10:43Speaker 2: a deer outside of the rut? Probably not. Well, you
- 10:47Speaker 2: ever snort weeze at a small buck? Probably not? So
- 10:50Speaker 2: what does that mean? It means that you'll follow that
- 10:54Speaker 2: rule even if you don't actually know it's a good one.
- 10:58Speaker 2: Let's think about something else. On that dairy farm I
- 11:01Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, there is one hundred acre field on one
- 11:04Speaker 2: part of it. Now that field is split by a
- 11:06Speaker 2: waterway and it's a crapshoot on any of given year.
- 11:09Speaker 2: What'll be planted in there? Sometimes, like this year, the
- 11:12Speaker 2: whole thing is corn, sometimes half of its corn and
- 11:15Speaker 2: half of its alfalfa, sometimes half as beans. You get
- 11:18Speaker 2: my drift. Now, On some years, I can access the
- 11:22Speaker 2: woods that that field borders via standing corn, and I
- 11:26Speaker 2: can kill decent bucks in the morning in September as
- 11:29Speaker 2: they work their way back to bed. Sometimes I can't
- 11:32Speaker 2: get anywhere near that field in the mornings, or I'll
- 11:34Speaker 2: blow the whole thing out because of what's planted in there.
- 11:37Speaker 2: So on some years on that farm, the rule about
- 11:42Speaker 2: not hunting early season mornings is pretty solid. On other years,
- 11:47Speaker 2: following that rule would cost me real opportunities at good bucks.
- 11:52Speaker 2: The only thing that changes those rules is the crop
- 11:55Speaker 2: rotation and my willingness to hunt when the rules seem wrong.
- 11:58Speaker 2: For the scenario where I'm going with all of this
- 12:02Speaker 2: is that we find comfort in guardrails. If you believe
- 12:06Speaker 2: you shouldn't hunt early season mornings and you don't hunt them,
- 12:11Speaker 2: you're going to feel like you are being a good hunter.
- 12:14Speaker 2: But what might have been a good decision last year
- 12:18Speaker 2: could be a dumb one this year. Or what might
- 12:21Speaker 2: be a good one on that property that you used
- 12:23Speaker 2: to hunt might not be a good one on the
- 12:25Speaker 2: least that you have this year. Another example, if you
- 12:28Speaker 2: believe you can't hunt bottoms of valleys because the wind
- 12:31Speaker 2: will swirl and you'll get busted, for sure, you're not
- 12:33Speaker 2: going to try to hunt bottoms of valleys, and I
- 12:36Speaker 2: promise you there are conditions where you can get away
- 12:39Speaker 2: with it, and if you do, you're probably going to
- 12:41Speaker 2: be on deer. The danger to all of this is
- 12:45Speaker 2: that you have to try things that you've been conditioned
- 12:47Speaker 2: to believe just won't work. That sucks, but it's also
- 12:51Speaker 2: why I love heading out on the road to hunt
- 12:53Speaker 2: public land in random states. My willingness to be cavalier
- 12:57Speaker 2: and try riskier strategies goes way up when I'm a
- 13:00Speaker 2: strict timeline and have little to know history with a property.
- 13:04Speaker 2: When you do that, it sort of crumbles the foundation
- 13:07Speaker 2: ever so slightly that we've built on our home ground
- 13:11Speaker 2: where we just know we can do this, but not that.
- 13:14Speaker 2: I also believe that the rules we like to follow
- 13:17Speaker 2: keep us from figuring out how to hunt as if
- 13:20Speaker 2: they don't exist. Let me give you an example about
- 13:23Speaker 2: seven or eight years ago, I killed one hundred and
- 13:25Speaker 2: forty six inch ten pointer on public land in South Dakota.
- 13:29Speaker 2: The buck, along with his little buddy, came through in
- 13:31Speaker 2: the morning in late September, when you're not supposed to
- 13:34Speaker 2: hunt mornings. But I'd watched some deer use that spot,
- 13:37Speaker 2: and I knew they were passing through there in the mornings.
- 13:40Speaker 2: I just didn't have a great idea how to approach
- 13:41Speaker 2: the whole thing. So I stuck a blind into a
- 13:44Speaker 2: bunch of dead cedars, and I went in way early
- 13:47Speaker 2: and parked down the road in a place that meant
- 13:49Speaker 2: I had to walk in from the opposite direction the
- 13:51Speaker 2: deer were likely to approach from, and it worked. If
- 13:55Speaker 2: that had been a home ground situation, I doubt I
- 13:58Speaker 2: would have tried. That would have been too risky. It's
- 14:01Speaker 2: honestly as simple as that. Though now I have to
- 14:04Speaker 2: say this because if I didn't, I wouldn't feel great
- 14:06Speaker 2: about myself. A lot of the things that I try
- 14:09Speaker 2: to make work, which might be outside of general deer
- 14:13Speaker 2: hunting rules that people like to follow, they just don't work.
- 14:17Speaker 2: I don't know how many times I've tried to access
- 14:19Speaker 2: the spot that I thought i'd get away with sneaking
- 14:21Speaker 2: in and not letting the bucks know I was there,
- 14:23Speaker 2: and it just didn't happen. This happens a lot. What
- 14:26Speaker 2: it does for me is helped me set up my
- 14:29Speaker 2: own rules for certain properties in certain times of the year.
- 14:34Speaker 2: Take this little chunk of land I own in Wisconsin.
- 14:36Speaker 2: It's three hundred yards from my east to west boundary,
- 14:40Speaker 2: and if I park anywhere but the farthest southwest corner,
- 14:43Speaker 2: my daughters and I generally won't see deer when we sit,
- 14:46Speaker 2: at least if we hunt in the evenings. Anyway. Now,
- 14:49Speaker 2: I learned this because I thought I needed to park
- 14:51Speaker 2: on the other side due to where I figured the
- 14:53Speaker 2: deer would be betted. But they knew when we went in,
- 14:56Speaker 2: no matter how careful I was. Now we park as
- 14:59Speaker 2: close so as you could to where they bed, just
- 15:02Speaker 2: because it also puts us close to two neighbors we
- 15:04Speaker 2: have on that property, and our noise sort of blends
- 15:07Speaker 2: into the general noise of those other two people, or
- 15:10Speaker 2: the other two households, I should say, they hear human
- 15:14Speaker 2: noise there in that corner all the time. On the
- 15:17Speaker 2: other side of the property, there's no houses or driveways,
- 15:21Speaker 2: and a truck crunching along the gravel and stopping there
- 15:23Speaker 2: seems to be just enough to keep them from doing
- 15:26Speaker 2: what they need to do. The lesson there is that
- 15:29Speaker 2: I had a rule in my head when I started
- 15:31Speaker 2: hunting that property, but the deer showed me it was
- 15:34Speaker 2: a bad one. Then I had to go through some
- 15:37Speaker 2: trial and error to figure out that specific property and
- 15:39Speaker 2: how to make it work. That rule about where to
- 15:42Speaker 2: park and how to access it is literally property specific.
- 15:47Speaker 2: I wouldn't park as close as I could to a
- 15:49Speaker 2: known bedding area anywhere else. In almost any situation, I
- 15:53Speaker 2: go the opposite way, and you know what, I might
- 15:56Speaker 2: be totally right in doing that, even if on my
- 15:59Speaker 2: land that's the wrong move. Here's the thing that makes
- 16:02Speaker 2: all of this even tougher. That might not be the
- 16:06Speaker 2: case this season or in five seasons from now. Maybe
- 16:10Speaker 2: they won't bed there as much in the future, and
- 16:12Speaker 2: my access will have to change. I don't know. What
- 16:15Speaker 2: I do know is that I have a rule for
- 16:17Speaker 2: where I park now and how I get into that piece,
- 16:20Speaker 2: and it's a good one. If we stop seeing deer,
- 16:23Speaker 2: it'll be time to rewrite the rules and figure out
- 16:25Speaker 2: what to do to get things working in my direction again.
- 16:28Speaker 2: So what does all of this mean for you? For starters,
- 16:32Speaker 2: I'll give you a simple one which plays off that
- 16:34Speaker 2: summer scouting episode I did last week. One of the
- 16:38Speaker 2: summertime rules a lot of us follow is to run
- 16:40Speaker 2: cameras and mostly stay out of the woods. How about
- 16:43Speaker 2: don't do that. Run cameras and go into the woods.
- 16:47Speaker 2: Take a good look around. Try to envision what you
- 16:50Speaker 2: should do now to kill one the first week of
- 16:51Speaker 2: the season. Go check some of your rut funnels for
- 16:55Speaker 2: tracks now, walk field edges and fence rows. Go into
- 16:59Speaker 2: the woods. Pay attention to the heat and the bugs
- 17:02Speaker 2: and how bad they are while you're standing up on
- 17:05Speaker 2: top of the hill looking at your on X and
- 17:07Speaker 2: how bad they are when you drop into the bottom
- 17:09Speaker 2: of the valley to look around. Pay attention to the
- 17:12Speaker 2: water sources and the browsing evidence. The more we learn
- 17:15Speaker 2: about the deer we are hunting, the more we realize
- 17:17Speaker 2: that the general rules don't matter much. It's far more
- 17:20Speaker 2: important to figure out exactly what's going on in your spot,
- 17:24Speaker 2: not what someone else is doing seven states away on
- 17:27Speaker 2: a property that is nothing like yours. So don't break
- 17:31Speaker 2: the laws and the regulations, but think about the general
- 17:35Speaker 2: deer hunting rules that you follow. Do they seem to
- 17:39Speaker 2: be working out for you? Or do you still struggle
- 17:41Speaker 2: to fill tags even though you're diligent about them. If
- 17:44Speaker 2: the latter is true, go figure out how to do
- 17:47Speaker 2: things differently, break some of those rules and forget about
- 17:50Speaker 2: what you're supposed to do and try to learn what
- 17:52Speaker 2: you should do. I want you to do that. I
- 17:55Speaker 2: want you to come back next week because I'm going
- 17:58Speaker 2: to talk about some more summertime, your concerns and get
- 18:01Speaker 2: into some strategies that I have right now to set
- 18:04Speaker 2: myself up for hunts all fall, including rut hunts, even
- 18:08Speaker 2: though it's hot, miserable out and I'm not really that
- 18:11Speaker 2: excited to do it. That's it for this week. I'm
- 18:15Speaker 2: Tony Peterson. This has been the Wire to Hunt Foundation's podcast,
- 18:18Speaker 2: which is brought to you by First Light. As always,
- 18:22Speaker 2: thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate it.
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