Latest / Skin Anarchy / Behind the Scenes with Emmy-Nominated Journalist Sonni Abatta: From News to Skincare

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Behind the Scenes with Emmy-Nominated Journalist Sonni Abatta: From News to Skincare · Skin Anarchy

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited to be hosting her because I'm a huge fan of her content and all of the wonderful messages that she puts out there, you know, and she also has her own podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I absolutely love it.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna dive into that.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: But without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Sony Abata, who is a four times Emmy nominated and AP award-winning journalist.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And she is also, like I said, the host of her own talk show and podcast, We Gotta Talk.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Sony.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be hosting you.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me, Dr.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Ecta.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's really great to talk again.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is so wonderful to have this you know opportunity again, actually.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to actually, you know, get your views on so many different things, including a lot of fun stuff, obviously, because we love skincare and beauty here, but also like we were talking before the show, you know, there's a lot going on in the world.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't wait to dive in.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: But Sony, tell us about yourself, your career, and your amazing background.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: You've done so much, you know, and I'd love to learn.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, for sure.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I am a journalist by trade.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: I spent 15 years working in TV news in two markets, interned in New York City, and um gosh, spent most of my time doing news.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I did like dip my toe into sports and weather.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Not a pretty picture.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but was was honored enough to cover some really interesting stories over my time working both in Pittsburgh and Orlando for two different affiliate, um local affiliate stations.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh the Case Anthony trial, George Zimmerman trial.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I flew at a fighter jet, I went into a burning building with the Pittsburgh Fire Department.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: The cool thing about local news is that it's really, I believe, the last pure form of journalism, right?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's like not much to corrupt it at that level.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really an honor um anchoring reporting all those years.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: You you get exposure to um every different type of story or person that there is in the world, especially when you're reporting and you're out on the streets and interviewing people.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I really am grateful to have spent my time in traditional media that much time because it really ignited in me a love for conversations and talking with people.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: The only downside was in in news, sometimes you only got a very discrete amount of time to tell a story.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a skill to tell a story in a short amount of time, but it also leaves out so much perspective.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's cool to be in in the podcast space now because I have time on my side.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you know this too, because you're amazing with the people you interview, you go into depth on topics.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I made that transition, yeah, about seven years ago into the digital space.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I just talk with people on my computer instead of on the TV now.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love it though.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know I I had seen a clip of your um of your podcast where you were talking about local news, and and I think you had brought that uh, you know, that point up.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved what you said, and I loved what you said just now is that yeah, you know, I I resonate with that as just somebody who watches, you know, because I think journalism to me, Sony, and I don't know.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you went through the route, but growing up, it was like I really admire journalists because not only because you're doing this, you know, great service, right?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're reporting actual news and and events that are happening around us, but also from the the like the writing perspective.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could you can transform someone's perspective, you know, in a positive way.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And or like, you know, in it's entertaining.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was always entertaining for me to watch things like the news, you know.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I was a weird kid, but it was in in the way of I knew that it was like a trustworthy profession, you know, with amongst all the things I was experiencing growing up.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was in science, my family was in science, but I when I looked at journalism, it was like I almost was like, I wish I could, I had the brain for that, you know, because I couldn't, I don't think I could have done it.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: But how is that?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to the reason I'm saying all this because I want to know, like, when you were going through the the motions of getting, you know, into the career and into the field, like, you know, what was that like for you?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Were there a lot of hurdles?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Were there a lot of things you had to like, especially as a woman, you know, going into a field like this?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: What how was that like?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, gosh, there's a lot of stories on that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do want to touch on something really important that you said though, is that, you know, I think, and and this was apparent when I interviewed you too.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: You knew, you told me from a young age you were in a wet lab and you were doing things that eventually would lead to right the career that you ended up with.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think I have always been a curious, uh, observant, really quiet child.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I sat at the adult table.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: We had these, I'm Italian American and we have these huge family dinners every Sunday, and there were 10 kids.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like the little nerd in the corner in the big room, you know, in the in the in the adult room at the big table, listening to like what everybody was saying.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, and I would bring my books and I would take notes and I would do homework.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I remember my grandfather saying, What is wrong with Sunny?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what would she like want to go play?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the skill set that I was uh always sort of attuned to was hearing stories, hearing facts, and and and compounding them and and putting them all together and and and understanding different points of view.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like from an early age, I was kind of destined for something like this because I just have a real genuine love of listening.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the important thing to remember in in this space and in any like news or storytelling space.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: The skill is the curiosity, the skill is the listening.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's and then sort of transforming that into something interesting.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but you know, the story is the person that you're interviewing, it's not about you, it's not about me and what I think about things.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, it's about the person that you're talking to.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say that um in that way, it was always kind of clear what I liked.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was a writer, I loved to, I wrote little silly poems for all my family members when I was little.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was a real nerd.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so yeah, getting into the field was interesting because um the university that I went to, Carnegie Mellon, which is in Pittsburgh, which is where I'm from, did not have a journalism program.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I actually entered as a creative writing major and then eventually ended up in a school there.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is really cool.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: They have what's called BXA.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an intersectional kind of combination of their different colleges.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was part of the commun uh College of Humanities and Social Sciences and writing, and I was a part of the College of Fine Arts with drama.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was able to hone in on my writing skills, but also some of the, you know, voice and performance and things that were sort of and and playwriting and storytelling that were associated with the drama.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a really cool degree because it gave me sort of the the the best of both worlds in that way.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I started off really young.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I had my first job.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I interned, um, oh gosh, I'm like going really into like back in the day now, but even Oh, that's good.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love that though.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, no, Sony, this is important.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, people don't know, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Young professionals don't know now, you know, how to go into these careers and how to do it.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So so I asked, please, yeah.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and you know this too.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like the the o the best exposure to a field is shadowing.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is interning.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is that free labor and that attention you put on your art form before you do it.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can't jump the gun.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would have interns when I was working, they'd be like, I want to be an anchor.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, that's the worst place to start.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: You need you need, you know what I mean?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's like going to you and be like, Dr.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ecta, I want to be like operating with you like tomorrow.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, you gotta you, and not only do you gotta do the work, you have to want to do the work, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's where you learn.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, even as like a 19-year-old, I was I had a part-time job, I worked for a production company, I did these little sports shows, then I interned at Dateline in New York City, which was really cool.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this was like just when the internet, I'm like aging myself, was like coming online in a big way.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it was fascinating.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I worked for the that was the best.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: That was the best time to be alive, I feel like.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm 42 now, and I look at these kids, I look at my kids growing up, and I'm like, oh, you'll never know a world without like without cell phones and tablets, and yeah, yeah, I know.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we got into some really like fun stuff pre-internet that like will never be recorded, which is great.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then after all these internships, I ended up at at 21 years old, working at the CBS affiliate in Pittsburgh, and I was the youngest hire they had ever made.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an older market, like people who live in Pittsburgh, like you go there and you live and you stay.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's a generations type of city.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So they saw this 21-year-old girl show up as a reporter trainee, which is what I was, and I would shadow these veteran reporters.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then I finally got on the air and they were like, Who is this baby?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I experienced a lot of like blowback.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there were people in the station that didn't like me, and there were people that were viewers that were sending me horrible, like um, they would call the assignment desk because this is like before email was very popular with the older set.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they would call and they'd be like, Why did you tell that girl to cut her hair?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and went through all of it, right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the meetings where no one listens to your story ideas because you're 21 and what do you know?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I get that.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was a real journey, but but really good, really, really good overall.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you came out, I mean, the other side and and so beautifully, but I feel like, you know, those were those were the golden days, though.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like with a lot of careers, I I look at medicine like that too sometimes and I'm like, damn, we went through a lot.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: We went through the rare to get to, you know, because no one did internships, you know.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure it was like kind of teach your own, like you said, you know, you didn't have journalism as your major.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: There were, you know, there was no like set in stone.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I always find that to be so interesting about individuals that I interview, you know, such as yourself, there are uh professionals in categories where you kind of paved your own way because the perspective comes out like these are just some amazing, unique perspectives, you know, that you end up dealing with.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm sure with news, you were, you know, you when you saw that shift, what was it like for you?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like seeing the shift in like media, because now, as we were talking about, media is all about social media, right?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about what's at your fingertips, you know, the phone, the tablet, the everything.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, when we were growing up, I feel like it was no, you have to go on to like, you know, or watch TV or go on to an actual website, you know, even like as the internet came out.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what have you noticed, you know, the way that we media is delivered now, you know, and and news especially, like, um, what's changed uh as you observe it?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll start with the upside.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: The upside is we have access to information like never before, obviously, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can you can find just about anything on YouTube, probably not your job.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would not go to a YouTube doctor, but I mean, you know, most people can can really hone their skill set by searching it online.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's that simple.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So while it's wonderful that we are exposed to more information and more points of view, it also means that it's incumbent on us as individuals, as news consumers, to really make sure that we're vetting our sources.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're unsure about something you're hearing, actively seeking out an opposing point of view so that the very least you have more of a complete picture, right, of the story that you're taking in.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there are many good parts, but I do, I do think there was some benefit to the, you know, back in the day when there were only certain outlets that did news, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: The big networks, because everything that came onto TV at that point was highly vetted, highly researched.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was chances are it went through the legal team.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, when you're when you're producing one small bit of content, maybe 30 minutes of news every night, you really work on that.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: You have all day to work on a relatively short show.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now you have uh with local news especially, you have news on, I think like eight to nine hours a day is what many stations have on, to say nothing of the cable networks, which are 24 hours.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think about it, even even without being an expert in the field, you can understand how when you begin to churn out content like that, inevitably the quality can go down.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what what I'm seeing happen is that people are unwilling or unable to discern between what is strict news and what is opinion news and what is strictly opinion.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to have a rule of thumb where I would say, if you're watching it on cable after 6 p.m., it's not news, it's opinion.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it might you might have little tidbits of news thrown in there, right?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: But you're hearing it a person's opinion, and that's okay.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: But now that's the case with everything because we're on social media for our news.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And exactly.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's like a 24-hour cable network in your hands, and you gotta be really, really conscious of what and how you're consuming it, because it is an influx of information like never before.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you really, really, really have to have to be deliberate on how you consume it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I could not agree with you more.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I also like I want to ask you as a follow-up, like, if you were to like like say, like, you know, I'm sitting in a class and you're teaching a class on journalism, and if you were to define what like modern day journalistic integrity has come to, like, what would you say?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are your thoughts on that?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like that's what we never hear like journalists talk about anymore, is like what it means to be like ethically there, you know what I mean?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Focus on the facts and like that's like what is your uh your view and your uh point of view on that?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I would start by saying that I would give credit to journalists that at the very least they believe that they are doing and reporting the right thing, right?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would give benefit of the doubt to each individual individual, right, who's putting together the news.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but messaging can get mixed, or you, for example, when you present a script as a reporter to your producer who then goes to your news director, I mean, the the end result can be changed multiple times.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be for legal reasons because they don't want something to get out there that might be and you know put them in the legal the threat of a lawsuit.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I would start by saying the intentions are good, I would hope.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I would add on that God, I don't even like know how to say this without coming across something like making a broad sweeping generalization.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, ethics, it's a little ethics are a little wavy.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't know how to tell people um who there's no like standard protocol, like there's no, yeah, yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: My rule of thumb though, and and I think this is this is a really useful thing that I tend to do when I consume news that I always tell people who are like, gosh, I don't know what to believe.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing is if you're watching it on one cable station or from one point of view, actively seek out the other point, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it you it may not be something, something you naturally gravitate toward.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: You may have a belief that really aligns with the way one network is covering it, and that's okay.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: But deliberately expose yourself to the other and see if there's something you're missing in that point of view that wasn't covered your way.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of makes us more whole news consumers.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I would also say to pay attention to how an outlet self-corrects over time.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, how willing an outlet is to go back and say we messed up.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, yeah, you know, there's a lot of news coming out of the Middle East right now.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there have some have been some outlets who have said, listen, we got it wrong.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, allow us to issue this correction or watch how a news outlet behaves over time, right?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: You want to see that self-correction, you want to see that accountability.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and understand that news is a machine.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like just like any other business, ultimately what it comes down to, and I I I I believe in good journalism, and I think that undercut, you know, underlies everything.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, they're also advertising machines, right?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, just understand that that's a part of it too, be a conscious consumer, seek out those other points of view and watch for the news outlets that behave responsibly over time.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: You you know that you're in watching a bad, you know, thread on TikTok, or you're uh watching like not a great balanced perspective if you never hear a guest with an opposing view, or you never hear someone devil's advocating the perspective.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: You really need to to challenge your belief system to make sure that you're not just in your echo chamber, if that makes sense.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that does.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you said that because honestly, here's the thing, you know, I think there's obviously like the way I see it, at least, there's these this polarization, right, of consumers and of of news and media and all this stuff.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like there's two sides.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Either it's the people who are super like, you know, they question everything, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're always like playing devil's advocate, or it's just the opposites.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I've heard a lot of my friends say sheeple, you know what I mean?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the word that but I I you know I don't want to put anyone in a category, but I really do see that there's two types of consumers.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um for me, where I get confused and I get lost now with the way that news is delivered is you know, I just don't feel like it's news anymore sometimes, you know.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's like you were saying opinion pieces, but then it's like, where is that line?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just it's I don't know.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's getting blurred more and more, you know.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I watch something, I'm like, now I watch old outlets, right?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sonny, and I I used to I grew up with them, like I'm watching them.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of us might be able to relate to it that you know, you watch what you've always trusted and you you're watching it and you're like, wait a minute, that doesn't look right or it's not you know sound right, or it doesn't feel fair.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's where like for me, like as a consumer of like any media, like I get very like bothered when I see that because we it's like what are we really wanting to buy?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you said, media is a business, it is, and at the end of the day, it also comes down to us as consumers, like what are we looking to buy?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to bring this up like in a you know, I'm not bringing this up in a negative light at all, but just to say it, like, you know, we're all going through a lot right now with our processing our thoughts with the current landscape, right?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with everything going on in the world.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I look at social media and I'm like, I feel like some people just want to buy the negative, you know what I mean?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just really want to focus on one thing.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like my I don't know, maybe it's like for me, it's like when that becomes a deterrent to actually getting facts, that's where I have a problem.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I started to have a problem there because it's like now you're catering to people's like desire to want the sensational thing and the you know, whatever.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just don't the lack of facts is where I start having a problem.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I was like, you know, I just want to get your view on it.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: You that's a really good point, too, because what happens with social media is it becomes not just an echo chamber, but sort of like a verification protocol.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like these people are posting things and they're getting likes and they're getting shares.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh man, I must be on, I must be on to something, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so they continue reporting or whatever it is, and um, they're doing so for the validation, for the follows, for likes.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's not everybody.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I like I said at the beginning, I believe in the intentions of people.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think most people show up on platforms, whether it's a national news network or people, I would like to also think individuals, but I don't maybe not as much because it's not as much of a vetting process.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd like to believe in the good in people, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to understand the motivation, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know as a content creator, and I know as a new having produced my own news things, what gets the clicks, what gets the watches tends to be the sensational stuff.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're feeling overly, if you're listening to something, you're like, yeah, yeah, you know, then you know, oh God, this might not be news.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: This might be editorial, this might be an opinion.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I need to take a minute, pause, reflect on the other side, the other perspective to make sure that you're not living in just that echo chamber.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It really, really is incumbent on news consumers to be savvier than ever.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I hate that it has to be that case that way, because I do think there was that golden era, like you said, that like post-World War II era through probably the 80s and 90s when when American media was at its at a at an apex of sorts, right?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was slow moving, yeah, it was well vetted.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, here we are.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, with the benefit of technology comes the drawbacks.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm always the type of person who thinks, okay, we're gonna take this good thing, this technological revolution, and we're gonna love it for what it is, and we're not gonna put restrictions on it, because to do that becomes complicated in its own right.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what we're gonna have to do is now educate the individuals.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when you give your kid a cell phone with social media, you don't say, well, you do until a certain age, but at some point, you don't, you don't say, may say when they're 15 and on, you don't say, honey, never go on social media because that's never gonna happen.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: You teach your kid, you need to you're have self, you're gonna look at social media, it's gonna make you feel bad.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I want you to have self-worth.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And here's how you're gonna feel good about yourself and mentally prepare yourself.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you are exposed to these triggering things, then I want you to know that XYZ, you got to train the individual, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're never gonna change the plan.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're not marked.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're so right though.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I don't I didn't mean to interrupt you, but like it's so true.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like that's where I think a lot of us get lost is this like, okay, how do I do that, right?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I like make sure that whatever I'm putting out there for the next generation is correct?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I especially what you said resonated with me a lot because we are, you know, we I talk to a lot of beauty people here, you know, and I feel like we talk a lot about things like, for example, like body positivity or like, you know, just how people feel as consumers of the beauty industry, you know?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times um we have this conversation over and over and over again.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to get your view on this, is that, you know, where does that really fall like from what you're seeing, you know, from your side, um, uh in terms of what we're putting out there from the beauty coverage when it comes to news or media?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you think that it's, you know, it's a good place?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, should we be like, you know, focusing on things that maybe you've noticed that it might be a negative thing we're focusing on?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know it's changing, but what are your views on that?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: I personally love as far as how media intersects with the beauty space, which I'm, as you know, I'm super passionate about beauty.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I like to see is, for example, when filters are disclosed or when platforms make it apparent that a filter is being used, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's the best we're gonna get for a while.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: You hear a lot of people be like, ban the filters.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: We can't, right?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're probably it's probably not gonna happen.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So at some point we have to uh we have to work on our own individual foundations and feel that self worth and do the inner work so that when we see that, we know, Sonny, it's not real.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or like I can tell my daughters and my son, you know, listen, guys, you're gonna see this stuff.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not real.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think the issue when we put the responsibility on companies to do the right thing, we will always be disappointed.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that company can be in any field media, beauty, they're gonna chase the bottom line.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So Sorry for us that that's the case.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there are some sort of minor ways that ethics kind of intersect with their interests, but I would I think in this society they're few and far between, right?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it's just like with news, it's incumbent on us to be like, okay, well, this is the world we live in, kind of stinks.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, for me, it looks like when I show up on social media, not using a filter.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I swipe the Paris filter maybe like one out of every 10 times, but usually I'm gonna show up with all my, you know, nasty looking pores and I see, you know, my dark circles, and you know, I I try to to do a small thing.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not always that way.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's gonna go on my Instagram and be like, I see this filter.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Once in a while I filter, okay.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but you know, it it looks like that in the beauty space too.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just I don't want to be a pessimist about it, but I never like to wait for companies to act on our behalf to make us feel better.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: It just is gonna happen.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's exactly no, I agree though.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I agree, and I feel like with the filters, it's gotten kind of wild, but I don't think a lot of it's not as bad as like I think I think of the younger crowd, it's might be a little bad, you know, in terms of like, but yeah, I don't see a lot of people like that are older, you know, or just you know, in their 30s or 40s, like we're not really using the filters.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I use a filter and I look like like a five-year-old.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, I know it's like it's good, and then it's like, oh, wait, but is it?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because my neck is still really old, but my face is really young.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you got like a baby face.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I'm like, I look like a grown baby.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I mean, you're right though.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: What you said is that, you know, um it's it's it's all about moderation, and it's interesting, you know, because from the beauty industry that a perspective from what I've interviewed, you know, brands and and executives in the industry, I think a lot of times brands um can't really do that homework anyways, right?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like they can't do that for us because you're right, there is a bottom line and there is a they're a business, they're trying to sell you products that you know they've that's their goal, selling product, you know.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with consumerism, it's so interesting because we're for me at least, and what I look for now in a brand is so different than what I used to look for like 15 years ago, if you know what I mean.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like 15 years ago, it was like I'm still looking for my red lipstick, you know what I mean?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna work on me.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm like, okay, which one should I buy that's from the brand, that's from, you know, that's ethically sourced or sustainable, you know, versus back then.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm just curious, you know, what do you like what are your views on just how you know we've we went from like no options, I feel like, to like a million options now?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you see that from your perspective?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like and like with the media, right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good thing and it's a bad thing.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I came up doing all of my own makeup for TV.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: We never had a regular um makeup artist for the local stations.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I went through some really bad acne.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, Dr.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Ecta, like bad.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had acne that was, it wasn't cystic.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I look back, it was probably me just overdrying my skin.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I used to wash my face with lever 2000.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that soap?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, oh my god, yes.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I went through a few years of really bad acne.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And working in TV when you have that bad of acne is is a really tremendously difficult thing.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there are worse problems in the world, obviously.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll get that caveat out of the way.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember an ex-boyfriend saying to me one time, he's like, I went to the doc to the dermatologist, and this was like, I didn't know what else to do, right?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't been a this was before I found like my magical Eastern European facialist that literally fixed my skin.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I they went and they lanced all of these breakouts that I had.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I came out of the office bleeding from my forehead, and he goes, Oh, you look like you got hit with buckshot.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I cried like a baby.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was such a mean thing to say.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's extremely cruel.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would he do that?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are many reasons.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's a different podcast.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that's why he's an ex.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh uh point being is that I had to really learn how to take care of my own skin and my own self because I was doing all of this for myself on my own.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't want to be the young girl who was trying to break through professionally and worrying about how I looked, my skin looked at the same time.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was already subject to so many opinions.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I couldn't cut my hair without permission.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't dye my hair without permission.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: One time I dyed my hair from like a a like a really highlighted blonde to kind of this color, and my news director called me in the office and reamed me out.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was a really tightly controlled environment in some ways.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I'm grateful that there are options because for someone like me who who was doing all this stuff myself and learning about my skin, I I needed that.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I would spend, I mean, so much time re-I would be, I was on Derm Store before like whatever, 20 years ago when I was 21.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 20 years ago.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Before it was like this big blow upside look looking for my exuviance and my, you know, and I would grill my facialist.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, okay, what are you doing?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that when I go home, I can get this, you know, do this myself.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is like a really a learning process.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why I'm obsessed with beauty now, because I I went through that really traumatizing experience.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and now I know, like with everything else, sometimes you're your own best advocate.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So better pony up and learn all about my products before I put them on my skin.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean that's such a that's such a real thing though, because I feel like now teenagers are getting facials at the age of 10.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was like in my mid-20s before I got a facial ever.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, skin at 10 too, right?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's like literally nothing wrong.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: What are you getting a facial for?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like what?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, it it's no, you know, I I am so glad and thank you for sharing your story because I think that's so important.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and honestly, it's uh the best part of the beauty industry, I think, is because we can all relate to it, we all gravitate towards it.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the that's the beauty of like, you know, just creating a brand and seeing it work for people.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end, end of the day, you know, we are still struggling, I feel like, as consumers to find like what is good for us, even though, you know, that's why I asked you, like, with all the options out there.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: We still, I remember when I came on your show, you had asked me, like, what are, you know, I I feel like every time I listen to one of your shows, there's a, you know, you want to buy that product.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because there are some really great products, you know what I mean, out here.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: But still, I see people struggling still, you know what I mean?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like where they're like, oh, I can't, you know, I don't know what to use, or I don't know what kind of acne this is or whatever.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, that's why, you know, I'm curious from a journalistic standpoint, what it is that might be going wrong, or like, you know, the missing link, because I think there's a lot of stuff out here, but I just wonder sometimes, you know, like, is it reaching the right audience?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it reaching people who are actually getting getting help from it because we're still buying products that are not working, purchasing new ones that again don't work, you know what I mean?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just I I'm just interested, you know, from that uh media angle of that, because it's like, well, there must be something going on that we're still perpetuating that was still a problem, you know, 15 years ago.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I love listening to you talk to these founders because you're right, there are just endless good products out there.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: But what really works for me is like finding hearing them explain not only like about the formulations and the ingredients, but why they why they made it, why it works, how it's different.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And like again, we got to do the research for our own skin.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're not overbuying things and wasting our money and wasting our time.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like it it you do have to like that's why I love like beauty is my like other huge, huge passion in life.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Aside from like news and current events, I always joke, it's like my superficial mode.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, the really heavy stuff I cover, and then there's like the fun beauty.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: I interviewed plastic surgeons.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because like we are all in need of a little lightness and levity and fun.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to have a good lipstick that I when I put on, I feel good about it.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I also want to know, you know, if it has ingredients that might irritate my skin.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll like seek out a podcast with that founder, or I want to know how it compares to another one.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll like search it up on social media, like write the beauty of all this media that we can do that research, but it also helps you land on on what works best.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I do not know how you shift how you sift through all the products you must get.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's either like a dream or a nightmare.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's somewhere in between.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Too bad.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Too bad.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I mean, honestly, you're you're you're so right.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I I completely agree with your, you know, your thoughts on that is that it is it's it's really good to have the knowledge at our fingertips, but it's more so about are we utilizing it or not?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look at TikTok, you know, we we are now dealing with a whole platform of social media that I don't know if you relate to it, but I don't relate to TikTok.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say it, you know, openly.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I can't relate because for me, I grew up learning from audio.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up learning from these news channels, these, you know, conventional media outlets.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with TikTok.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think it's a everything is a wonderful thing if it's a truly a resource.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: But for, you know, in terms of just how things are moving now, how knowledge is being dispersed and you know given to people, it's just makes you wonder as like, you know, you keep seeing these studies come up where it's like people are saying now, I don't know if you saw this, but there's some doctors and psychiatrists saying, Oh, ADD is on the loose again.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has ADHD now.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I look at stuff like that and I'm like, this is where media matters.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is where news and actually like put the journalism stuff, this is where it comes in.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is we are, you know, we have to make sure that like what's being put out there, like, you know, is actual real information so that people aren't just making these like you know, opinions and these perspectives up out of thin air.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't tell you how many times, Sony, I see, you know, people using YouTube as like their only resource, you know what I mean?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is that's so messed up to me because you know, you think back and you're like, I remember my what a professor wanted at least five sources for a paper, you know, and now people make their whole opinion up based off of a YouTube video.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so yeah, especially in your field, like the last thing you want is like a YouTube research, like anything, you know, like even if it's something like a skincare product, like I want to see, and I love that about your show is that there is a scientific bent to it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I forget what it is you taught me, and I can't remember.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh, you told me like, you know, only the first like two things that you put on your skin will like scientifically absorb like it's just not possible for your skin to sound the truth.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why did I think about that?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know why?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm being sold a bunch of products that I'm a sucker for and I'm buying the five steps when in reality my skin is happier with just the two really great ones.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I agree, I agree.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just it's just interesting to see, you know, we have so much accessibility now, but it's like really how are we using it?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to shift gears a little bit, Sonia, and I want to talk about, you know, some advice because I think that, you know, when I uh have the opportunity to interview um, you know, people like yourself and I, you've had such an amazing career already and you're doing such great things now with, you know, the shift into like kind of doing your own thing with your podcast and your show.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to get your advice for the young professionals out there because I know they're still out there looking to go into, you know, like, for example, journalism, but might not know where, you know, how do I approach not necessarily the career track, but the hurdles, right, that come with it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: So any words of wisdom that you have for young professionals as they're navigating through this kind of space of writing, journalism, you know, media, whatever it might be.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Specific to TV journalism, I would say I would go back to the point first that I made a little while ago, which is show up and ask questions, show up and listen.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, being engaged in the field that you're interested in goes a long way.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know what it's like in the OR, but when we are on set and have an intern with us, it is a good thing to have them, you know, not in the middle of a newscast, but ask questions during a break.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's good for them to want to get into like the system that we write our scripts in and understand how it works.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: You will not be successful with a lack of interest.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I would encourage people too that the job, this is like gonna sound mean, but it's true.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not about you.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of people that want to get into TV because they want the fun stuff.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: They want the superficial, like someone to do my makeup, someone to do my hair.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: I want to look cute, I want people to tell me I have great hair.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like not about you, though, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can enjoy that side of it.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I I say this all the time on my podcast, we contain multitudes, right?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a superficial bitch sometimes.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the alter ego.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And but I'm also like a person who deeply, deeply cares about the direction our country is going in and our world is going in.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: So know that whatever field you're getting into, focus on the greater good aspect of it, right?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it your your opinion matters.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I know Gen Z is coming into a different media landscape.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So things might look a little bit different, but there is nothing that will ever be wrong with humility, graciousness, engaging with the people who are older than you, asking questions, understand, have respect, right, for the field.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it it would be like someone, like I said, wanting to come into the OR with you and be like, okay, what scalpel do I use now?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just like that, that ain't it.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like not how it works.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and the benefit of approaching any field with that level of curiosity and respect and deference is that you learn more and you learn, hey, it's not about me, it's not about my opinion on these things or what I want to do.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's about showing up to serve a greater purpose.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody's greater purpose is gonna look different for you in medicine.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: It looks different for me than in journalism, and it looks different for me in journalism on a local level than it would for a network anchor or reporter.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's all gonna be different, but showing up with an earnestness, with a deference, with a desire to learn and just keeping that bigger goal in mind will keep you moving.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just cannot overstate how much respect and curiosity will take people in life.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Respect and curiosity.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just absolutely.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, I love that.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's so yeah, you're right.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely right.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I definitely resonate with everything you said, and I think that's you know, truly words of wisdom for the younger generation because, you know, I think I read uh an article, Sony, on Yahoo.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was, I think, a month ago or so, and they were they had done a survey, right?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they had asked like Gen Zers, you know, what is it that you feel like you're lacking in, like your skill set, you know?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And most of them were like, it's not the it's I have no problem doing the skills, it's the etiquette, you know what I mean, of being in a job, like of like being in the profession, like like you know, what you were like just the respect aspect, you know, uh figuring out, you know, if there's a person who's my mentor or like a superior to me, that kind of stuff.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: They were having problems navigating that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I asked, like, you know, any kind of advice I can get, because I think the generation, it's a wonderful generation of people, but I think they're I don't know, no one's schooling them like they schooled us.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like they came down on us really hard, our mentors.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we're like the last of the old school kids out there, right?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Just our whole morale is just beaten down, but we ended up really good for it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we were told we suck about 10 times a day.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we learned, you know.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but like I said before, what better way to build up confidence than to go through the lowest of the lows?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, a hundred percent.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I absolutely love everything that you're doing, Sony, and I really, really love your show.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, for everyone listening, if you guys have not already, you have to check out the podcast.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's called We Gotta Talk, and it's a really, really great show.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Sony, you talk about such great topics on there, and you know, just it's just a it's it's a fun listen.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: So please check it out.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Leave us your comments, um, anything you guys want to chime in about.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: How are you feeling right now in the current landscape?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, any uh, you know, thoughts you have on the journalistic side of things or how things are delivered.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd love to hear from all of you, but thank you so much.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And Sony, thank you so much for the honor of hosting you.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's been such a pleasure to kind of pick your brain about journalism and and really understand from your perspective.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Likewise for me, Dr.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Ecta.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again for the opportunity.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 37:59
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