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2020: Steve Bullock on winning back Trump voters and making dad jokes · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau with another
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Speaker 1: installment of our 2020 Candidate Series. This time we're talking
0:26
Speaker 1: to Montana Governor Steve Bullock. He's someone you won't be
0:29
Speaker 1: seeing on the debate stage this week because he didn't
0:31
Speaker 1: qualify in time for the first debate. But he's about
0:35
Speaker 1: one month into his campaign, and we wanted to give
0:37
Speaker 1: him a chance to talk about his ideas, his policies,
0:41
Speaker 1: his views on politics. So we had him by the
0:44
Speaker 1: office last week in Los Angeles. We talked about what
0:46
Speaker 1: a Democrat from Montana, which is a state that Trump
0:50
Speaker 1: won in 2016, can bring.
0:51
Speaker 2: To the race.
0:52
Speaker 1: We talked about getting dark money out of politics, his
0:54
Speaker 1: ideas around making college and healthcare more affordable, foreign policy.
0:58
Speaker 1: and why politics, as usual, won't fix climate change. Here's
1:03
Speaker 1: the conversation. Governor Bullock, welcome to Pod Save America. It's
1:12
Speaker 1: good to have you here.
1:12
Speaker 2: John, it's great to be here, for sure.
1:14
Speaker 1: I'll start with a simple question. In 2020, you'll have
1:18
Speaker 1: served two terms for Governor Montana. You could go into
1:22
Speaker 1: the private sector, you could retire, you could possibly be
1:25
Speaker 1: the next senator for Montana. Why do you want to
1:28
Speaker 1: be president of the United States right now.
1:30
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I want to be president of the United
1:33
Speaker 2: States because I think this is dangerous time in this
1:35
Speaker 2: 243 year experiment called representative democracy. I mean, I have
1:40
Speaker 2: young kids. I see us more divided as a nation
1:44
Speaker 2: than ever before. Certainly not in my lifetime. And I
1:49
Speaker 2: ended up running for governor. I was attorney general for that,
1:52
Speaker 2: a job I loved, but ran for governor because it
1:55
Speaker 2: really was, what am I handing off to my kids.
2:00
Speaker 2: And I think it's even that much more important today.
2:02
Speaker 1: What got you into politics in the first place? What
2:03
Speaker 1: made you run for AG?
2:06
Speaker 2: Well, it's sort of a twisted, so I actually went
2:09
Speaker 2: to college down here. Small college. Claremont McKenna. Yeah. Went
2:13
Speaker 2: sight unseen. The idea of family visits or college visits
2:17
Speaker 2: was beyond my family's financial means. Worked my way through college.
2:21
Speaker 2: I borrowed my way through law school at Columbia and
2:26
Speaker 2: had this idea that I was going to, stay in
2:28
Speaker 2: New York, pay off what would be $ 175, 000 in loans today,
2:33
Speaker 2: and then maybe move home. But my father and my
2:37
Speaker 2: parents divorced in grade school, got stage four lung cancer.
2:39
Speaker 2: So decided, you know, if I was ever going to
2:42
Speaker 2: get everything right from that, time to move home. The
2:46
Speaker 2: only place that I could work in Montana with a
2:48
Speaker 2: debt load that big was in public service because then
2:52
Speaker 2: Columbia would help pay my loan. So I Starting a
2:55
Speaker 2: cubicle in the Attorney General's office. Only way that I
2:58
Speaker 2: got an actual office was my voice was so loud.
3:02
Speaker 2: Everybody was saying, we gotta get him out of there.
3:06
Speaker 2: And I'll never forget, so I was in federal court
3:09
Speaker 2: on a case. James Watt had this group that was
3:15
Speaker 2: suing to get rid of our stream access laws. And
3:17
Speaker 2: we have some of the best stream access laws in
3:18
Speaker 2: the country. And I'm like, two years out of law school,
3:21
Speaker 2: my name's Steve Bullock. I represent the people of Montana.
3:26
Speaker 2: These streams and rivers belong to all of us, no
3:28
Speaker 2: matter how wealthy we are. I'm like, this attorney general
3:31
Speaker 2: stuff's the coolest job in the world. So I ran
3:34
Speaker 2: for it. And I'm not sure my whole family even
3:37
Speaker 2: voted for me. I got killed. What year was this?
3:41
Speaker 2: This would have been in 2000. Okay.
3:43
Speaker 1: So that was the first time you ran.
3:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. And decided, oh, I will never want to do
3:48
Speaker 2: that again. Went on to practice both some... Private practice,
3:54
Speaker 2: I was union side labor lawyer for a little while.
3:57
Speaker 2: Did a minimum wage campaign. As we got closer to
3:59
Speaker 2: the 2008 election, I was like, but I really loved
4:03
Speaker 2: doing that when I worked in the Attorney General's office.
4:07
Speaker 2: So I decided to run for it. Wasn't a favorite.
4:10
Speaker 2: I was in a three-way primary, and somehow it worked out.
4:14
Speaker 1: So you've talked about how you're the only candidate in
4:16
Speaker 1: the race who's won at Trump State. But right now,
4:21
Speaker 1: the top five polling Democrats... all of whom won in
4:26
Speaker 1: pretty blue areas, are still, they have about 70% of
4:30
Speaker 1: the vote between all of them. Sure. So how do
4:34
Speaker 1: you make the case to primary voters that, you know,
4:39
Speaker 1: a candidate who has won in a Trump state has
4:41
Speaker 1: experience that's more valuable and even necessary than, you know,
4:45
Speaker 1: the top five or six candidates?
4:46
Speaker 2: No, you bet. And only got into this about a
4:49
Speaker 2: month ago. My legislature was still going on, so it
4:53
Speaker 2: had a lot to do. In some ways, we look
4:56
Speaker 2: at it like, and I get the excitement and the
4:58
Speaker 2: need to get on to going against Trump, but four
5:02
Speaker 2: years ago, I think Ben Carson was polling number one,
5:05
Speaker 2: so I think that there's some time along the way. No,
5:08
Speaker 2: I think I make the case that, as you note,
5:11
Speaker 2: was the only one to win a reelect and statewide
5:15
Speaker 2: race with Trump on the ballot. He took Montana by 20.
5:18
Speaker 2: I won by four, 25, 30% of my voters voted
5:20
Speaker 2: for Donald Trump. If we can't bring back both some
5:25
Speaker 2: of the places that we lost in 16, in addition,
5:28
Speaker 2: turn out our base, this guy could well win. But
5:30
Speaker 2: more than that too, that like there is a hunger
5:34
Speaker 2: to get things done that impact real people's lives. And
5:40
Speaker 2: being a governor and a governor of a state that,
5:44
Speaker 2: That's best. My legislature has been about 60 percent Republican.
5:47
Speaker 2: We've been able to get progressive things done from health
5:52
Speaker 2: care to kicking dark money out of our elections to
5:55
Speaker 2: high risk medical pools to investments in education. And I've
5:59
Speaker 2: done more on dark money than anybody else. So I
6:01
Speaker 2: think how you break through at the end of the
6:04
Speaker 2: day when people look at all of this is that
6:07
Speaker 2: we've got to beat Donald Trump. But we also have
6:10
Speaker 2: to make sure the government can work.
6:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
6:13
Speaker 2: And so many of the issues that we'll be hearing
6:15
Speaker 2: about through this primary, to me, it's been more than speeches.
6:20
Speaker 2: It's been actual having to get things done on the
6:23
Speaker 2: ground that impacts people's lives.
6:26
Speaker 1: So what are we missing about these Montana Republicans you're
6:31
Speaker 1: working for, you're working with in the state legislature, that's
6:34
Speaker 1: so different than the Republicans that we all know in D.C.?
6:40
Speaker 1: What's the secret there to get stuff done?
6:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly I think D.C. could learn a lot from Montana.
6:44
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say that it would be easy.
6:47
Speaker 2: Because I also have more vetoes than any governor in
6:50
Speaker 2: the history. Right, right. That I think the way that
6:54
Speaker 2: I've had some success is there in governing are twofold.
6:57
Speaker 2: One of which is, sure, I try to find common ground.
7:00
Speaker 2: I work with individuals. But I also will then go
7:02
Speaker 2: to their districts and try to say, you know, most
7:06
Speaker 2: people's lives... I hate to tell you this, are even
7:10
Speaker 2: too busy with real life to listen to Pod Save America.
7:14
Speaker 1: Believe me, we know. We're trying to reach all those people.
7:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, and most people don't live for politics, but they
7:20
Speaker 2: want a safe community, a decent job, a roof over
7:24
Speaker 2: their head, good public schools, clean air and clean water,
7:26
Speaker 2: the belief you can do better for your kids and
7:28
Speaker 2: grandkids and yourself. So I think how I've been able
7:31
Speaker 2: to have success is certainly showing up listening, trying to
7:35
Speaker 2: engage folks along the way, going to their districts.
7:40
Speaker 1: And what do you say when you show up? Because
7:41
Speaker 1: I feel like it is a great argument for Democrats
7:44
Speaker 1: that we've got to compete everywhere if we're going to
7:46
Speaker 1: win everywhere. I think everyone, pundits and everyone else I
7:50
Speaker 1: was looking for, what's the secret message that really breaks
7:52
Speaker 1: through to these voters?
7:53
Speaker 2: Well, and two different things. I'll give you an example
7:57
Speaker 2: of how I've showed up when it comes to trying
8:00
Speaker 2: to govern. And then also, To yours, what do we
8:03
Speaker 2: say to these voters along the way? 2015 is when
8:06
Speaker 2: I was trying to get Medicaid expansion through. This was
8:09
Speaker 2: the heart of anti-Obamacare time. And I'll never forget, I
8:14
Speaker 2: go to this town called Choteau. It's population 1,700 on
8:17
Speaker 2: the Rocky Mountain Front. Literally everyone in town knew why
8:21
Speaker 2: I was coming because the Koch brothers were nice enough
8:24
Speaker 2: to send a picture of me and Barack Obama saying,
8:27
Speaker 2: Bullock and Obama are coming to destroy your health care system.
8:30
Speaker 1: Very subtle message. Yeah.
8:31
Speaker 2: I showed up. And everybody in town got that flyer.
8:35
Speaker 2: So I showed up and instead of just telling them
8:37
Speaker 2: what they need, I listened. First person that spoke was
8:42
Speaker 2: hospital administrator. So 43% of the people that walk through
8:45
Speaker 2: those doors don't have health insurance. A couple of speakers down.
8:48
Speaker 2: And yeah, some people yelled and said, oh, Bullock and
8:51
Speaker 2: Obama are horrible. But was the chair of the county commission.
8:57
Speaker 2: And the chair of the county commission wasn't even showed out.
8:59
Speaker 2: He was from Bynum. It's a suburb, population 50. He's
9:02
Speaker 2: a rancher.
9:03
Speaker 1: You know, he goes, I was born in a suburb
9:05
Speaker 1: or 50.
9:07
Speaker 2: And he said, I was born in this hospital. This
9:09
Speaker 2: hospital saved my life a couple of years ago when
9:10
Speaker 2: I had a heart attack. If we lose this hospital,
9:13
Speaker 2: we've lost this town. And I think them telling me
9:17
Speaker 2: what they needed more than me telling them that I
9:19
Speaker 2: had all the answers. That's what gave that Republican legislator
9:22
Speaker 2: the courage to defy the Koch brothers, defy party leadership
9:26
Speaker 2: when really what, you know, every single vote mattered. And
9:30
Speaker 2: as a result, we haven't lost rural hospital. Now, when
9:33
Speaker 2: we go to places, too, that, you know, we got
9:36
Speaker 2: to recognize, right, that when I was growing up in
9:39
Speaker 2: the early 70s, 90% of 30-year-olds doing better than their
9:42
Speaker 2: parents were at age 30. Today, it's only half. Or
9:47
Speaker 2: that in real terms, the last 40 years, people haven't
9:50
Speaker 2: had a pay increase. So part of it is saying,
9:54
Speaker 2: you know, this isn't working out too well. This economy
9:57
Speaker 2: is not working out too well. And it's Democrats that
10:01
Speaker 2: have traditionally fought for your economic interests, your healthcare interests,
10:05
Speaker 2: your education interests. And they look to D.C. and it's
10:09
Speaker 2: not working either. So a broken economy and a broken
10:12
Speaker 2: political system, if we're not showing up and telling them,
10:15
Speaker 2: here's how we will work in partnership to make your
10:18
Speaker 2: life better, I think we're missing something.
10:21
Speaker 1: So there's a study last month out of the University
10:24
Speaker 1: of Iowa that said most of the voters in that
10:28
Speaker 1: state that switched from Republican to Democrat in 2016, I'm sorry,
10:34
Speaker 1: Democrat to Republican in 2016, who voted for Donald Trump,
10:37
Speaker 1: did not do so because of economic distress, but because
10:41
Speaker 1: of nativist appeals from Donald Trump and that your proclivity
10:45
Speaker 1: to change from Democrat to Republican in 2016 is It
10:48
Speaker 1: was much more likely if you responded to the nativist appeals.
10:51
Speaker 1: And there's been a whole bunch of studies like this, right? Because, look,
10:55
Speaker 1: I'm someone who thought, worked for Barack Obama, and I think, oh,
10:59
Speaker 1: it's always economics. Democrats need an economic message that's more populist,
11:04
Speaker 1: and then we can break through. And then you see
11:06
Speaker 1: all these studies, and you're like, I don't know. What
11:08
Speaker 1: do you think about that? Do you buy those studies?
11:10
Speaker 2: Well, I do in as much as, yeah, a third
11:12
Speaker 2: of the counties win. Obama, Obama, Trump in Iowa. or
11:18
Speaker 2: you go to where Dubuque is, it hadn't voted Republican
11:22
Speaker 2: since Eisenhower, and then somehow that we lost it. I
11:27
Speaker 2: think the feeling that the economy and the political system
11:34
Speaker 2: aren't really working for you in part leads to the
11:39
Speaker 2: same nativist that the University of Iowa study provided, right?
11:45
Speaker 2: I think that he in part was the result not
11:48
Speaker 2: the cause of folks saying things aren't working. Instead of
11:53
Speaker 2: doing what President Obama did, is saying we can actually
11:57
Speaker 2: bring people up. He poured gasoline on that fire.
12:01
Speaker 1: What does a Trump bullet voter sound like? Because there
12:05
Speaker 1: were like, what, tens of thousands of them, right, in Montana?
12:08
Speaker 2: Yeah. Come to Montana sometime and I'll show you, John. Look,
12:13
Speaker 2: I think that many of them certainly... They don't agree
12:17
Speaker 2: with all my policy positions or everything that I stand for.
12:21
Speaker 2: But they thought that at the end of the day,
12:23
Speaker 2: I was going to put them above the politics. And
12:25
Speaker 2: I'd be fighting for their education interests, their health care interests.
12:29
Speaker 2: And I do show up. I don't just go to
12:32
Speaker 2: the pockets of blue. Now, one of my favorite examples
12:35
Speaker 2: was from your old boss. I'm not naive enough to
12:39
Speaker 2: say that you can just go door to door across America, right?
12:42
Speaker 1: He wanted to.
12:43
Speaker 2: But I'll never forget. So when he was running in
12:46
Speaker 2: the primary in 2008. I remember that. I was there
12:49
Speaker 2: with him, yeah. Were you there in Butte? Yes, I was.
12:51
Speaker 2: Because that, to me, so for if not everyone's followed
12:56
Speaker 2: all the saga of Montana politics, we have a June primary.
13:00
Speaker 2: So I was in that three-way race for AG. And
13:02
Speaker 2: I got to the point where the Obamas and the
13:05
Speaker 2: Clintons were there so much, I just worked the lines.
13:07
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't need to hear that again.
13:10
Speaker 2: So he wraps up the nominations. And come Fourth of July.
13:14
Speaker 2: Could have been anywhere in this country. Could have been
13:17
Speaker 2: in Martha's Vineyard raising money. Could have been with his
13:19
Speaker 2: family somewhere. He took his family to Butte, America.
13:23
Speaker 1: I think it was Malia's birthday, too.
13:24
Speaker 2: It was, actually. It was. And Butte is a town
13:29
Speaker 2: that at one time around the turn of the century,
13:31
Speaker 2: these wealthy copper barons basically controlled all of Montana through
13:36
Speaker 2: this largest open pit copper mine. And now it's the
13:38
Speaker 2: largest superfund site. Now, on the one hand, there was
13:41
Speaker 2: zero electoral advantage for him to come to Butte, but
13:45
Speaker 2: it spoke to places like Butte all over this country
13:50
Speaker 2: that this guy gives a damn about me.
13:53
Speaker 1: What is the first piece of legislation you'd want to
13:55
Speaker 1: pass as president?
13:56
Speaker 2: So the first thing I would get done is, even
13:58
Speaker 2: by executive order, I would do, and I did this
14:03
Speaker 2: executive order in the state of Montana, is said that
14:06
Speaker 2: if you want to contract for services with the state,
14:11
Speaker 2: not even if you get it. I can't tell you
14:13
Speaker 2: not to spend in our system, but you have to
14:14
Speaker 2: disclose every single dollar that you spend trying to influence
14:19
Speaker 2: our elections. So that way, if nothing else in this
14:23
Speaker 2: post-Citizens United world, you're going to add transparency along the way.
14:27
Speaker 2: And I think the federal government contracts with dang near
14:29
Speaker 2: every company in the world. Yeah. Certainly in the United States.
14:34
Speaker 2: So at least we'd add the sunshine and transparency. I mean,
14:38
Speaker 2: I think sort of the HR1 Like for so many
14:41
Speaker 2: of the issues that we're talking about and will be
14:44
Speaker 2: talked about through this primary and into the general election,
14:47
Speaker 2: until we address what's happened since Citizens United, until we
14:51
Speaker 2: address the fact now a billion dollars of undisclosed spending
14:55
Speaker 2: has even occurred since then, it's going to be that
14:57
Speaker 2: much harder to address anything else.
15:00
Speaker 1: Would you consider passing H.R. 1 as your first piece
15:03
Speaker 1: of legislation? I know Elizabeth Warren said she's wanted to
15:05
Speaker 1: do that. What do you think?
15:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would do the executive order in a couple–
15:09
Speaker 2: other executive actions along the way. I'd try to blow
15:12
Speaker 2: up the filibuster. When it came to legislation, both on
15:16
Speaker 2: some campaign finance or disclosure stuff, I think that we
15:19
Speaker 2: need to do some overall tax reform, and I think
15:21
Speaker 2: we've got to start addressing climate.
15:25
Speaker 1: On the money and politics thing, Elizabeth Warren has sworn
15:29
Speaker 1: off high-dollar fundraisers as one way to reduce the influence
15:34
Speaker 1: of money, at least on her campaign. Would you consider
15:37
Speaker 1: something like that? What do you think about that?
15:40
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't start with like $ 10 million that I
15:42
Speaker 2: transferred over.
15:43
Speaker 1: You didn't have a big account that you, yeah.
15:45
Speaker 2: Either. So no, like no corporate PACs, no super PACs.
15:50
Speaker 1: Are you taking money from lobbyists?
15:52
Speaker 2: I am taking money from anyone as long as it's disclosed. Disclosed.
15:56
Speaker 2: Fully disclosed, yeah.
15:59
Speaker 1: So you recently expanded Medicaid in Montana. It's about 100,000 people.
16:02
Speaker 2: We got it reauthorized, interestingly, after. So it started in 2015. Right.
16:07
Speaker 2: We were trying to reauthorize it by a ballot initiative.
16:10
Speaker 2: Tobacco companies spent $ 26 million killing it by the initiative.
16:17
Speaker 2: So stripping healthcare away from 100,000 folks.
16:20
Speaker 1: Tobacco companies.
16:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:21
Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
16:22
Speaker 2: But we did then. I got it reauthorized through my
16:24
Speaker 2: legislative session.
16:26
Speaker 1: So I imagine if you become president, you'll do everything
16:29
Speaker 1: you can with your executive power to sort of shore
16:33
Speaker 1: up the Affordable Care Act. What do you then do?
16:36
Speaker 1: for the other 30 million people who still don't have
16:39
Speaker 1: health insurance right now. And in addition to that, all
16:43
Speaker 1: the people who, you know, even people who have Obamacare
16:46
Speaker 1: have said, you know, bought insurance on the, on the
16:49
Speaker 1: exchanges have said, my deductibles are too high. I can't
16:52
Speaker 1: find a plan that I can really afford. So what
16:53
Speaker 1: do you do to cover the rest of the country
16:55
Speaker 1: and bring costs down?
16:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. And first of all, let's recognize that, you know,
17:00
Speaker 2: 70% of America is covered by employer sponsored health insurance. And,
17:05
Speaker 2: By and large, they're happy with it. They're not always
17:07
Speaker 2: happy with the cost of the coverage. So we have
17:10
Speaker 2: to get to the point of both access and affordability
17:13
Speaker 2: for everyone. With access, I would do a public option.
17:17
Speaker 2: If you look at, there's 25, 30 million people that
17:19
Speaker 2: aren't covered. So you could buy in, certainly. You could also,
17:25
Speaker 2: if you could auto enroll Medicaid expansion, and we could
17:32
Speaker 2: get the rest of the states in the country to
17:34
Speaker 2: pass it, well, that'd be about 14 of the 10
17:36
Speaker 2: million that have zero coverage.
17:39
Speaker 1: So automatic enrollment for everyone who qualifies for Medicaid that's
17:42
Speaker 1: not currently- For Medicaid eligible.
17:44
Speaker 2: And the idea that drug companies invest how much in
17:49
Speaker 2: our political system and we can't negotiate prescription drug costs,
17:53
Speaker 2: we pay more for drugs and healthcare than any country
17:58
Speaker 2: in the world. And then I think you do have to,
18:01
Speaker 2: and you brought up this, the next piece of this
18:03
Speaker 2: is turning around and saying out of network charges, surprise
18:08
Speaker 2: medical billing. How do we address that? How do we
18:10
Speaker 2: bring down overall costs? I mean, even with that legislature
18:13
Speaker 2: in Montana, we passed a reinsurance program, essentially a high
18:16
Speaker 2: risk pool for folks on the exchange that should drop
18:21
Speaker 2: what they're paying eight or 9%.
18:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you heard of this program, Medicare for America,
18:26
Speaker 1: this legislation that's been offered and it would basically allow
18:30
Speaker 1: everyone to enroll automatically in Medicare and allow employers to
18:35
Speaker 1: choose that? I mean, how do you, because I know
18:36
Speaker 1: there's a different, like, how do you see the public option?
18:38
Speaker 1: How much would you have to pay in? Could you
18:40
Speaker 1: just enroll in a public option?
18:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, the way I look at it, it would be
18:45
Speaker 2: something to compete against. So an individual that doesn't otherwise
18:48
Speaker 2: have insurance, you could go to the private market or
18:51
Speaker 2: you could turn around and buy into a, Public option,
18:54
Speaker 2: Medicare for all.
18:55
Speaker 1: You were just speaking about how you had a lot
18:58
Speaker 1: of student loans when you were coming out of law school.
19:00
Speaker 1: What do you think we should do about this enormous
19:03
Speaker 1: burden that student debt is facing so many people in
19:08
Speaker 1: this country?
19:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you look at student debt doubling in the
19:11
Speaker 2: last decade, and I noted I had $ 175, 000 in today's
19:16
Speaker 2: terms that I had to pay off. I mean, first,
19:19
Speaker 2: what I've done, and then what I think that you
19:21
Speaker 2: could do.
19:21
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
19:23
Speaker 2: Frozen college tuition, six of the last eight years in Montana.
19:28
Speaker 2: And that's not by starving our universities. That's by investing
19:32
Speaker 2: more money at the state level into the system. If
19:35
Speaker 2: you look from the recession until today, 46 states have
19:39
Speaker 2: decreased their state investment in higher ed by almost 20%.
19:43
Speaker 2: Montana is one of four that's increased. So we have
19:45
Speaker 2: the fourth lowest tuition and fees in the country. Student
19:49
Speaker 2: debt load. ends up well over 10 grand less than
19:53
Speaker 2: the average for our country. So we have to make
19:56
Speaker 2: meaningful contributions at our level. Now, when you look at
20:01
Speaker 2: the literally, what, 100 and what's the overall student debt
20:06
Speaker 2: burden right out there? Billions. Billions. that i think that
20:11
Speaker 2: there are things that you can do without going down
20:14
Speaker 2: the absolute free college for all think about well the.
20:18
Speaker 1: Free college is on the front end but would you
20:19
Speaker 1: like you know warren's got this proposal to wipe out
20:21
Speaker 1: the debt for something like 96 percent of americans pays
20:24
Speaker 1: for it with you know a.
20:26
Speaker 2: Wealth tax what do you think about that i think
20:29
Speaker 2: that there are things that you can do without wiping
20:31
Speaker 2: out the debt for everyone.
20:32
Speaker 1: And why don't you want to wipe out the debt
20:34
Speaker 1: well i Two things.
20:36
Speaker 2: One of which is that, yeah, in an ideal world,
20:38
Speaker 2: no one would have student debt. But as long as, A,
20:42
Speaker 2: we could figure out how to pay for it, and
20:44
Speaker 2: let's also recognize that 68% of America doesn't have a
20:50
Speaker 2: college degree. So how do you make it more affordable
20:54
Speaker 2: along the way? Now, 60 years ago in this country,
20:56
Speaker 2: we said, wouldn't it be great if employers sponsored and
21:00
Speaker 2: carried health insurance? So what did we do? We actually
21:04
Speaker 2: incentivized saying, Employer, you can write off the cost of
21:07
Speaker 2: health coverage. An employee, you don't have to pay taxes
21:13
Speaker 2: off of this. Think about what we do for student loans. Now,
21:17
Speaker 2: if an employer turns around and says, John, I'm going
21:19
Speaker 2: to cover your student loans. I don't think it's business expensed.
21:24
Speaker 2: And then you as the employee have to pay taxes
21:28
Speaker 2: on it like this is a benefit. So we need
21:31
Speaker 2: to actually make it so first employers can cover part
21:34
Speaker 2: of it. If you look at it, we have 80
21:37
Speaker 2: to 90% of all of the student loans out there
21:41
Speaker 2: are controlled by, owned by the federal government. You could
21:44
Speaker 2: lower the points along the way. You could not dismantle
21:47
Speaker 2: the public service and loan repayment programs. I think there
21:50
Speaker 2: are a number of steps that you could do without
21:52
Speaker 2: just saying, all right, we're going to wipe all this away.
21:55
Speaker 1: Is there a solution on the federal level to sort
21:57
Speaker 1: of slow the rising cost of tuition? Because as you say,
22:01
Speaker 1: like as a governor- you can invest more in state
22:03
Speaker 1: education and freeze tuition like you did. But I keep
22:06
Speaker 1: wondering what we do on the federal level because otherwise
22:09
Speaker 1: it feels like we're just subsidizing loans in college and
22:13
Speaker 1: that costs a lot too.
22:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you look at it, I mean, where the
22:16
Speaker 2: federal government's always been most effective, at least in the past,
22:20
Speaker 2: with when it comes to education, education funding is using
22:26
Speaker 2: its purse as sort of either the carrot or the stick, right?
22:30
Speaker 2: the Obama administration did more for publicly funded preschool by
22:33
Speaker 2: putting out opportunities for states to invest along the way. Well,
22:38
Speaker 2: you look at what we've seen the last two and
22:39
Speaker 2: a half years when it comes to tuition issues, that
22:42
Speaker 2: what this administration's doing is essentially dismantling any consumer finance
22:48
Speaker 2: protection side of this, and the fly-by-nights will get more
22:51
Speaker 2: and more money along the way. I'm not sure that
22:55
Speaker 2: other than using the power of your purse... You're going
22:59
Speaker 2: to be able to limit every public university from increasing
23:02
Speaker 2: costs on tuition. But we also got to recognize that
23:06
Speaker 2: it's got to be a partnership. I think that you
23:10
Speaker 2: could turn around, and I think we should. A high
23:13
Speaker 2: school degree is no longer enough. Recognizing that what you
23:20
Speaker 2: could do is you could cover two-year college last dollars
23:24
Speaker 2: in at the federal level. Yeah. And- at least for
23:27
Speaker 2: the tuition fees part, not the living expenses, it'd be
23:30
Speaker 2: relatively affordable.
23:39
Speaker 1: On immigration, what does enforcement look like in a Bullock administration?
23:46
Speaker 1: Who gets deported? Who gets detained? Who gets to stay?
23:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. And first, like, let's recognize that, uh, This president
23:56
Speaker 2: has taken humanitarian issues and made it to try to
23:59
Speaker 2: divide people all the way across. There are some systemic things,
24:04
Speaker 2: like you have a broken bureaucracy when you have 400
24:07
Speaker 2: judges and a caseload of almost 800,000, right? But you
24:13
Speaker 2: turn around and say that as far as who gets
24:16
Speaker 2: to stay, the idea that individuals here and elsewhere have
24:21
Speaker 2: known no other country but ours and are now at
24:25
Speaker 2: risk of deportation, the Dreamers, immediately we've got to figure
24:29
Speaker 2: out a way to take care of them. It's three million.
24:32
Speaker 2: Another eight million folks, undocumented, immigrants, two-thirds of them have
24:40
Speaker 2: lived in this country for over a decade. And just
24:47
Speaker 2: even what we would get, you know, when you talk
24:49
Speaker 2: about here's how do we pay for things, just what
24:52
Speaker 2: we'd get for tax, from actually getting them in a
24:56
Speaker 2: path to citizenship could be a meaningful, meaningful way along
25:00
Speaker 2: the way. Now, I don't, what was the rest? Who
25:04
Speaker 2: gets detained?
25:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess what I think is, you know,
25:08
Speaker 1: looking back at the Obama administration, we obviously wanted comprehensive
25:11
Speaker 1: immigration reform. We pushed for it very hard. We couldn't
25:14
Speaker 1: get it done. In the absence of comprehensive immigration reform,
25:17
Speaker 1: we had a Department of Homeland Security and specifically ICE
25:20
Speaker 1: within Homeland Security that sort of ran wild on its own,
25:24
Speaker 1: at least in the first term, and, you know, rounded up,
25:27
Speaker 1: deported a whole lot of people that probably shouldn't have
25:29
Speaker 1: been deported in this country who weren't dangerous criminals. By
25:31
Speaker 1: the end of the administration, we had the priorities changed
25:33
Speaker 1: a little bit. But, you know, I think there's been
25:35
Speaker 1: some interesting proposals in the field so far. Julian Castro
25:38
Speaker 1: said he would change it so that crossing the border
25:41
Speaker 1: legally would be a civil infraction and not a criminal
25:43
Speaker 1: penalty anymore. Beto has talked about, from an executive standpoint,
25:48
Speaker 1: he would only deport the most dangerous criminals in Where
25:51
Speaker 1: do you come down on sort.
25:52
Speaker 2: Of what you do there? And what O'Rourke says, right,
25:55
Speaker 2: is that now you really do have sitting outside at
25:59
Speaker 2: the end of a plant gate shift as opposed to
26:01
Speaker 2: finding the most dangerous criminals. Right. I mean, this makes zero,
26:06
Speaker 2: zero sense. Yeah. I would still keep it a criminal
26:09
Speaker 2: infraction across the border. Right. And I think that it is. And,
26:13
Speaker 2: you know, some folks say, all right, we've got to
26:14
Speaker 2: get rid of ICE. Now, you've, as you know. You
26:18
Speaker 2: and the administration struggled with this for eight years, got
26:21
Speaker 2: the priorities presumably by the end of where you thought
26:24
Speaker 2: it was. I don't think it's about getting rid of ICE.
26:28
Speaker 2: I think it's about doing the reform to make sure
26:30
Speaker 2: that enforcement priorities are the bad criminals, not the individual
26:39
Speaker 2: that's just hanging out with their family trying to make
26:42
Speaker 2: a better life. Yeah.
26:44
Speaker 1: So a grown number of Democratic presidential candidates, as well
26:47
Speaker 1: as Nancy Pelosi, about 60 House Democrats now, now support
26:51
Speaker 1: the creation of a commission that would develop reparation proposals
26:55
Speaker 1: and issue a formal apology to African Americans in this
26:58
Speaker 1: country for slavery. Do you support that?
27:03
Speaker 2: You know, I support the concept of saying that there
27:06
Speaker 2: have been historical injustices that continue until today. And they're
27:12
Speaker 2: having meaningful impacts in our communities. I mean, by definition,
27:17
Speaker 2: reparations is remedying past wrong by giving, providing assistance to
27:24
Speaker 2: those who've been wrong. And certainly the promise of this
27:28
Speaker 2: country for a lot of folks isn't It hasn't ever
27:34
Speaker 2: been realized, and it's been a different path than you
27:37
Speaker 2: or I ever had. So where I take that is, well,
27:42
Speaker 2: if we know that an African-American family makes 58% of
27:49
Speaker 2: what a white family makes, part of that's historical, and
27:54
Speaker 2: that goes all the way to today. If you look at,
27:59
Speaker 2: in a separate context, like in my state, the Lifespan
28:03
Speaker 2: of a Native American is 20 years less than someone else. Well,
28:09
Speaker 2: we've got to address what's held us back along the way.
28:13
Speaker 2: And I think that is where I'd go or say
28:15
Speaker 2: that there are systemic inequities today that it didn't just
28:20
Speaker 2: start today. But that's probably different than a payment for
28:24
Speaker 2: every individual.
28:25
Speaker 1: How would you address some of the systemic inequities? You know,
28:28
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, there's both a very large and growing
28:31
Speaker 1: wealth gap. between white Americans and other Americans, and also
28:38
Speaker 1: infant mortality. It goes through all kinds of economic issues, housing.
28:42
Speaker 1: There's also, of course, inequities in our justice system. How
28:45
Speaker 1: do you start approaching some of those inequities?
28:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it really is looking at each of the
28:50
Speaker 2: inequities and saying, what resources can we bring to bear?
28:54
Speaker 2: Even in a state Like mine, we got eight or
28:56
Speaker 2: nine bills through when we looked at sort of criminal
28:59
Speaker 2: justice reform. If you look at health disparities, an African-American
29:07
Speaker 2: woman is four times more likely to die in childbirth.
29:10
Speaker 2: Or as far as maternal care prior to having a child,
29:16
Speaker 2: Hispanic families, substantially different access to care. Now, part of
29:21
Speaker 2: that's things like Medicaid. Part of that's availability along the way.
29:26
Speaker 2: But I think for each of the issues, each of
29:29
Speaker 2: the sort of where there's systemic differences, we have to
29:33
Speaker 2: take them one by one and say, how do we
29:35
Speaker 2: meaningfully address either a community that's been wronged?
29:40
Speaker 1: I want to talk about climate change. So I know
29:44
Speaker 1: you've talked about rejoining the Paris Accords. I think aside
29:48
Speaker 1: from Paris, probably the most consequential step Obama took to
29:52
Speaker 1: reduce carbon pollution was his Clean Power Plan. Obviously, power
29:56
Speaker 1: plants are the number one source of carbon pollution in
29:59
Speaker 1: the United States. When we first announced that plan, you
30:02
Speaker 1: said you were very disappointed in it.
30:05
Speaker 2: Why? So it was two different steps, right? So step
30:09
Speaker 2: number one came out and said, here's the Montana's mass
30:12
Speaker 2: reductions we need to do. We actually went around the
30:16
Speaker 2: entire state and said, we can actually do this. Let's
30:19
Speaker 2: figure out how to. So we went to coal communities
30:23
Speaker 2: and others. And then when you rolled out the final rule,
30:27
Speaker 2: it actually doubled the mass, the reductions expected out of Montana.
30:33
Speaker 2: So after working with EPA and others, said, look, you
30:37
Speaker 2: moved the goalposts on us along the way.
30:40
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the question is, there's so many
30:42
Speaker 1: issues where you can say, all right, well, this is
30:45
Speaker 1: as best as we can do, and we're compromising, and
30:48
Speaker 1: compromise is important. It's the only way to get things done.
30:50
Speaker 1: Climate is this issue where it's like, okay, We're given
30:54
Speaker 1: a deadline.
30:55
Speaker 2: We got to do something. Yep, absolutely.
30:56
Speaker 1: And so it's almost like the usual politics of compromise
31:01
Speaker 1: and let's do a bit here and a bit there
31:03
Speaker 1: seem like they don't quite fit with the.
31:05
Speaker 2: Magnitude of the moment. We can't do that anymore. We
31:06
Speaker 2: cannot do that anymore. And I look at, yeah, I
31:10
Speaker 2: had 1.3 million acres burned two years ago. Yeah.
31:14
Speaker 1: What do you think we should do?
31:15
Speaker 2: Fire seasons are 78 days longer now than it was
31:18
Speaker 2: 30 years ago. So I do think that You turn
31:22
Speaker 2: around and say, right, IPCC says we've got to be
31:25
Speaker 2: at net zero by 2050. I think we can do
31:29
Speaker 2: it a lot sooner, 2040 or earlier. Certainly, yeah, some
31:34
Speaker 2: of the easy steps is not only rejoining Paris, but
31:37
Speaker 2: also funding our commitments along the way. Not even the
31:40
Speaker 2: auto industry was asking for repeal of the fuel efficiency standards.
31:47
Speaker 2: They were along the path. Looking at probably the most
31:50
Speaker 2: antiquated piece of machinery that we have in this country
31:54
Speaker 2: is the electrical grid because it's really been cobbled together.
31:58
Speaker 2: So investments along the way into that to make more
32:02
Speaker 2: both wind and solar available. Investing in technology as we
32:07
Speaker 2: get battery storage along the way. Energy conservation. I mean,
32:12
Speaker 2: that's about 30% of what you could change just by
32:15
Speaker 2: hiring people to make things better, more efficient along the way.
32:19
Speaker 2: So I think that we need to take.
32:20
Speaker 1: Do you think we need a price on carbon?
32:22
Speaker 2: I think that that should certainly be on the table.
32:25
Speaker 2: I think that could be part of it. Think about though,
32:27
Speaker 2: and it's funny as you say, like, well, not funny,
32:30
Speaker 2: it's tragic. You know, think back to the first George Bush. Yeah.
32:36
Speaker 2: So he said as president, we got to address the
32:40
Speaker 2: greenhouse effect with the White House effect. Yeah. I mean,
32:42
Speaker 2: you As a Republican president, I am going to lead
32:46
Speaker 2: from the White House. Now a Republican can't even acknowledge
32:50
Speaker 2: climate change as human cost because of what outside spending
32:55
Speaker 2: has done. So I think that this is a crisis
32:58
Speaker 2: that we have to address, and we have to take
33:01
Speaker 2: it seriously, not only our role, but our role in
33:05
Speaker 2: an international leadership perspective, because we can't do it alone.
33:08
Speaker 2: It makes no sense that just China submitting twice as
33:12
Speaker 2: much as We are when it comes to greenhouse gas,
33:16
Speaker 2: but they're also investing a lot more into even the
33:19
Speaker 2: science and technology and opportunities for what a net zero
33:27
Speaker 2: economy can look like. Your old secretary, Tom Vilsack, he said,
33:33
Speaker 2: I can get the whole dairy industry to net zero,
33:38
Speaker 2: but they can't do it alone. There has to be
33:40
Speaker 2: federal investment along the way.
33:42
Speaker 1: I know you've only been in the race for a month.
33:44
Speaker 1: Are you going to come up with like a big
33:45
Speaker 1: climate plan that's all detailed or what's your thoughts on that?
33:48
Speaker 2: We will. Yeah, we will.
33:49
Speaker 1: Do you think Donald Trump deserves to be impeached?
33:56
Speaker 2: What do you think?
33:57
Speaker 1: I mean, anyone who casually listens to this pod, that's
34:01
Speaker 1: what I think.
34:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think it's a moving target. I mean,
34:05
Speaker 2: from the perspective of what he is normalizing and what
34:08
Speaker 2: this administration is normalizing. is absolutely, it's dangerous for the
34:16
Speaker 2: institutions that we have. And we shouldn't just take this
34:22
Speaker 2: sitting down. Where I say it's a moving target, and
34:25
Speaker 2: I know that you don't think, well, these investigations may
34:28
Speaker 2: not be the way. Now, there is a constitutional obligation
34:33
Speaker 2: of oversight from Congress. And I'll be darned if the
34:36
Speaker 2: executive branch doesn't have a constitutional obligation to respond to that. Right.
34:41
Speaker 2: So that's where, from my perspective, if it continues to
34:44
Speaker 2: stonewall on every investigation, then I think we have to
34:49
Speaker 2: look at it. So that's why I say it's a
34:51
Speaker 2: moving target. It's also interesting, though, because you say, you know,
34:55
Speaker 2: you don't want this election to be a referendum on
34:58
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Yeah. Now I'm interviewing you. Do you think
35:01
Speaker 2: this election should be a referendum on Donald Trump?
35:03
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I actually think that in this election
35:07
Speaker 1: we do— have to offer people a choice, right? Like,
35:10
Speaker 1: I think it's insufficient to just bash Trump from now
35:13
Speaker 1: until Election Day. But I also think because we are
35:17
Speaker 1: in a media environment where that man can grab the
35:21
Speaker 1: microphone and command so much attention that it's always going
35:25
Speaker 1: to be about Trump. 2018, yeah, our candidates talked about
35:28
Speaker 1: health care all the time. All the ads were about
35:30
Speaker 1: health care. But opposition to Donald Trump drove that vote.
35:35
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what people wanted, a check on Donald
35:37
Speaker 1: Trump in 2018. Health care was part of that, right?
35:40
Speaker 2: Well, I think they were about to lose their health care.
35:43
Speaker 2: He's trying to strip it away.
35:44
Speaker 1: But I think it's just, it's always, to some extent,
35:47
Speaker 1: especially when there's an incumbent running for re-election. This was
35:50
Speaker 1: the case when we ran against George W.
35:51
Speaker 2: Bush.
35:51
Speaker 1: This was the case when Mitt Romney ran against Obama.
35:54
Speaker 1: He tried to make it a referendum on Obama. It's always,
35:58
Speaker 1: it gravitates towards a referendum on the president. So I
36:02
Speaker 1: just think, I mean, I guess, though, my question was, Oh, I.
36:06
Speaker 2: Don't get to ask you questions. No, you can ask me.
36:10
Speaker 1: I think there's an honest debate to be had whether
36:12
Speaker 1: the House should move forward and actually go do this.
36:14
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering if you, having, have you read the
36:17
Speaker 1: Mueller report?
36:18
Speaker 2: Read most of it. Skimmed it.
36:20
Speaker 1: Do you think reading that and knowing what you know publicly,
36:23
Speaker 1: that he deserves impeachment, whether they go down that path
36:26
Speaker 1: or not, whether it's wise to go down that.
36:27
Speaker 2: Path or not? I think reading the first half and,
36:31
Speaker 2: I mean, we should have a real acknowledgement that, right,
36:35
Speaker 2: a foreign government interfered and invaded our country. And to
36:40
Speaker 2: allow the normalization of him standing next to Putin and say,
36:43
Speaker 2: I take him at his word, is pretty damn problematic
36:49
Speaker 2: for looking backward. It's problematic. It's also what we look
36:54
Speaker 2: at going forward. Now, you look at here are the
36:56
Speaker 2: number of issues that were brought out in the second
36:59
Speaker 2: half of it. And whether that would be cause for impeachment,
37:04
Speaker 2: I think that's anybody's bet or it's anybody's discussion to have.
37:09
Speaker 2: But if you can't even, if Congress can't fulfill its
37:13
Speaker 2: oversight duty along the way of saying, all right, I
37:17
Speaker 2: want to unpack some of these suitcases that was brought
37:19
Speaker 2: up in this Mueller report and other things, then I
37:22
Speaker 2: think that's where you would get to the point where
37:25
Speaker 2: you have to impeach. Now, I would turn around and say,
37:28
Speaker 2: and so the week before last, Seven meet and greets
37:33
Speaker 2: or town halls throughout Iowa.
37:35
Speaker 1: No one's asking about impeachment.
37:36
Speaker 2: People talked about their health care.
37:37
Speaker 1: Right.
37:37
Speaker 2: They talked about what these tariffs are doing. This isn't
37:44
Speaker 2: what their discussion was. And I think that there is
37:47
Speaker 2: the potential for turning around and by moving for impeachment
37:54
Speaker 2: as the Senate locks up, like hopefully what would happen, right,
37:57
Speaker 2: is additional information comes out. It gets any sane person
38:01
Speaker 2: to say, for the sake of our representative democracy, we've
38:03
Speaker 2: got to do something about it. But I would so
38:06
Speaker 2: much rather have the next year and a half talking
38:09
Speaker 2: about the fact that the guy who will clean up
38:12
Speaker 2: the studio tonight paid more in taxes than 60 Fortune
38:16
Speaker 2: 500 companies last year, or we're now 50 years the
38:20
Speaker 2: lowest corporate tax collection ever. In the last 50 years,
38:25
Speaker 2: $ 1 trillion of stock buybacks didn't go to me.
38:27
Speaker 1: What do you want to do about taxes? Would you
38:28
Speaker 1: repeal all of the Trump tax cuts?
38:32
Speaker 2: I would do, look, even the corporations weren't asking for 21%, right?
38:38
Speaker 2: And then add on to that where, you know, when
38:42
Speaker 2: you have 60 companies that not only didn't pay taxes,
38:44
Speaker 2: that they got credits. I think you could look at
38:47
Speaker 2: a 28% and still be competitive and close loopholes and
38:51
Speaker 2: turn around, especially on the first, top four brackets, take
38:55
Speaker 2: it up another three points, you'd make some good money.
38:58
Speaker 2: And I think at some point, you know, somebody that, again,
39:01
Speaker 2: that cleans this place when they're getting taxed at a
39:04
Speaker 2: higher rate than somebody living off their trust fund, when
39:06
Speaker 2: you look at the passive income, we've got to, it
39:10
Speaker 2: should be taxes, ordinary income.
39:13
Speaker 1: So the Trump administration is now arguing, or at least
39:16
Speaker 1: it's reported that they're arguing behind closed doors, that the
39:20
Speaker 1: 2001 authorization for use of military force uh... the congress
39:23
Speaker 1: passed after nine eleven for afghanistan gives them the authority
39:28
Speaker 1: to go to war in iran potentially do you agree
39:30
Speaker 1: that the AUMF gives them the authority to go to
39:33
Speaker 1: war in Iran?
39:34
Speaker 2: You know, so to tell you the truth, John, I
39:37
Speaker 2: haven't read the AUMF lately. The idea that they're going
39:41
Speaker 2: to turn around and say, now we have the authority
39:43
Speaker 2: to go to war in Iran.
39:46
Speaker 1: Do you think it should be repealed? The House Democrats
39:48
Speaker 1: voted today to actually repeal the AUMF because they said
39:50
Speaker 1: that we need a new one.
39:51
Speaker 2: To be candid, I should look into it more. But
39:56
Speaker 2: even look at America first has become America alone. And
40:02
Speaker 2: this Trump reflex seems to be we're going to treat
40:06
Speaker 2: our allies as adversaries and our adversaries as allies. If
40:10
Speaker 2: you look, what's happening with Iran is of his own making. Yeah.
40:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. You've said we need to campaign and legislate like
40:21
Speaker 1: our kids are watching.
40:22
Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? And I've shared this story.
40:26
Speaker 2: So when I got elected, my kids were 6, 8,
40:29
Speaker 2: and 10. It had been 40 years since... kids that
40:34
Speaker 2: age have been living in the Montana governor's residence. I'll
40:37
Speaker 2: never forget. My son moves in, kicks a soccer ball,
40:41
Speaker 2: and somebody goes, you know, that painting's worth hundreds of
40:44
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars. I'm like, get rid of the damn painting.
40:46
Speaker 2: It's it, right? Because we have to live here. And
40:50
Speaker 2: first day of the state, I said, you're going to
40:53
Speaker 2: hear different sounds from both the governor's residence and my office.
40:58
Speaker 2: And it'll be the sounds of children's laughter. And that
41:01
Speaker 2: our kid's learn from our words and our deeds and
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Speaker 2: we as leaders have an obligation to act like our
41:08
Speaker 2: kids are watching because they are so what does that
41:11
Speaker 2: mean both in how I present myself and in a
41:15
Speaker 2: way that now that I have teenage daughters I embarrass
41:18
Speaker 2: them no matter what I do but there's got to
41:21
Speaker 2: be ways to call out honestly be honest and call
41:26
Speaker 2: out the BS when it's there but do it in
41:28
Speaker 2: a way that elevates the system not further tears it down.
41:33
Speaker 2: And I mean, what we've seen, and this is where
41:35
Speaker 2: you started this interview, like what got you into this?
41:39
Speaker 2: I mean, the lies, the misstatements, the dividing us by race, gender, geography,
41:44
Speaker 2: the temper tantrums. And it is no exaggeration to say
41:48
Speaker 2: we now expect more out of our preschoolers than we
41:52
Speaker 2: do of our president. And that's causing further and further
41:57
Speaker 2: divisions in this country. I can be In Montana, the
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Speaker 2: legislators that I work with, I can fundamentally, philosophically disagree
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Speaker 2: with them. But that doesn't mean that I don't have
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Speaker 2: some obligation to show them respect.
42:13
Speaker 1: What's your best bad dad joke? I know you're known
42:17
Speaker 1: for them.
42:19
Speaker 2: They're all good dad jokes, John. That's the trick. It
42:23
Speaker 2: was a trick question.
42:24
Speaker 1: All the dad jokes are actually good.
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Speaker 2: So during my launch, I was asked that as one
42:28
Speaker 2: of the questions. And maybe what's... What does the mama
42:33
Speaker 2: buffalo say to the baby buffalo when you're dropping off
42:36
Speaker 2: at school? Bye, son.
42:43
Speaker 1: What are the two different sections of a Montana library?
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Speaker 1: Have you heard this one?
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Speaker 2: No.
42:49
Speaker 1: Fishing and non-fishing.
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Speaker 2: Fishing and non-fishing.
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Speaker 1: That is what a someone who's in the office today.
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Speaker 1: who knew you were coming, say, I have a great
42:58
Speaker 1: dad joke that's Montana related.
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Speaker 2: Fishing and non-fishing.
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Speaker 1: Please pass this on to people. And so I did.
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Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that, John.
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Speaker 1: Governor Bullock, thank you so much for joining us. Really
43:07
Speaker 1: appreciate it. And good luck on the trail.
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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. All right, John. Thank you.