Latest / Zone2Speak Podcast / Rachel Manning: Shredding Trails from Enduro to Gravel

Transcript

Rachel Manning: Shredding Trails from Enduro to Gravel · Zone2Speak Podcast

0:00
It just started to snow and rain. And I had like three hours each day planned
0:04
for riding. And then I was like, oh, no, that's not going to happen.
0:08
So when it's snowing, I guess, you have to jump on the tour boat at home.
0:13
Yeah. We were going to go out today, but we went for a walk and then it was just so icy on the road.
0:19
I was like, oh, I'm too scared in case, you know, you just hit that one bit of ice and you come off.
0:23
Hmm yeah i guess i
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mean especially coming from an accident i guess it's even more
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scary but here obviously doesn't get well i guess
0:32
it gets icy in certain points in the peak of
0:35
winter but even just the wetness i'm i'm already hesitant of doing some climbs
0:41
because on the descent i don't want to you know eat termac no thank you and
0:46
i guess that was that wasn't a problem in dubai was it Because it was not really
0:50
hills and then also never rained really.
0:53
Yeah, just flat. The only problem you might have, it's just in the summer to
0:58
dehydrate. But other than that, there's no danger.
1:02
Very different then. But we want to come out to Girona soon.
1:06
And because obviously hearing the hype about it, we're like,
1:08
should we go out into Girona? So hopefully one day we'll see you there.
1:11
Yeah, please, please. And you know, you guys can come and stay here as well.
1:15
Miguel and I have two daughters, but from different relationships.
1:18
And both of our daughters are with the other parents right now.
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They come in the summer. So in the summer, it's a full house.
1:26
But other than that, it's just the two of us and the pets. So you guys are welcome.
1:30
Juliette already booked her trip. I think she's coming early May,
1:34
late April, whenever track a week is. So she'll be here.
1:38
Oh, and I thought you were going to say she was coming quite soon,
1:40
but obviously with her bad elbow, unfortunately she's not going to be riding. Yeah.
1:48
Music.
1:56
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2:26
And now for the episode.
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Rachel Manning is an incredibly talented mountain biker, renowned for her expertise in enduro racing.
2:36
Racing for Hot Pursuit Cycles, a shop-based race team in Southwest England,
2:42
supported by Specialized and 661 Protection.
2:46
She has competed in one of the toughest disciplines, blending the adrenaline
2:50
of downhill with the endurance of cross-country.
2:54
Rachel has truly made her mark in the sport. After recovering from a torn ACL,
3:00
Rachel made a remarkable comeback, this time on gravel.
3:05
Incredibly, on her very first gravel race, she qualified for the Gravel World
3:09
Championships, which she raced in early October. She continues to be supported
3:15
by Hot Pursuit Cycles alongside Silverfish UK.
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And whilst she was racing enduro, she was also doing a PhD in Human Geography.
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So, Dr. Rachel, I'm excited to have you here on Zone to Speak.
3:30
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Juliana. It is fantastic to be here.
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And it's been so great to listen to your previous guests on the podcast as well.
3:37
Thank you. I'm glad you're listening and enjoying.
3:40
So we met in a wonderful setting. I think it was last year. We were invited
3:45
for this beautiful cabin in Morzine.
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And it was great to meet you and Andy and everybody that was enjoying that week there.
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Though you were just injured I think
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you were getting ready for your surgery so I
3:59
don't know if you enjoy as much as we did or more because
4:02
we missed out all the relaxing parts that you were taking advantage of yes it
4:08
was a very different experience to what I expected on that trip I mean obviously
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it was set up as a week of riding actually no we were there for 10 days So it
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was meant to be 10 days of riding in Morzine.
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But I think it was six weeks previously, I had just torn my ACL.
4:27
So yes, that trip became very much a relaxation trip for me,
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which was a perfect place for it, but not quite what I expected.
4:34
Yeah, but it was great to meet you. And I'm glad to have you here.
4:37
So you build a name for yourself in the endurance scene.
4:40
Can you tell us how you first got into mountain biking and why Enduro in particular?
4:46
Yeah. So I was trying to think about this question because I was thinking,
4:51
how long ago did I get into cycling?
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And I can actually remember it, that kind of pivotal moment,
4:57
I think, which got me into mountain biking.
5:00
And I used to work as a windsurf instructor and I used to work in Greece and Turkey.
5:04
And they also had mountain bike guides there as well. Whilst,
5:08
yes, teaching windsurfing was very cool and very fun.
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I used to watch the mountain bike guides go off and think, wow,
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that looks even more cool than being a windsurf instructor.
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So I'd watch them go off. And the company I worked for, they gave us a massive discount on,
5:25
the bikes that they used for that company. So when I came back to the UK,
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I ordered a mountain bike through the company.
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And then it kind of took off from there. I was at university when I got into it.
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And then obviously there was a perfect crowd for mountain biking because there
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was the mountain biking society.
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And I was studying in Plymouth University, which is on the edge of Dartmoor in the UK.
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So it was the perfect setting to learn to mountain bike.
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And from the moment I got that bike, I think it definitely became,
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mountain bike became an obsession.
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And I just started off mountain biking and then gradually got into racing.
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Wow. What an incredible experience to be also in Greece and Turkey teaching windsurf.
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How cool. I've been to Turkey. I haven't been to Greece, but Turkey is also so beautiful.
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I'm sure the mountain bike guys
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were also looking at you and thinking how cool I also want to do that.
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It was say the mountain but i think i liked the thought
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of being a mountain bike guide there because it was obviously so hot
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they would take groups out very early on
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in the morning and they on the evening when it was cooler so then
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in the daytime they would also spend their day windsurfing
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so they really did have the best of both worlds oh how nice what
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a nice job i know it was i mean
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yeah we didn't get paid very much but it was working in
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greece and turkey is obviously very nice yeah that
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those are the you know the perks there are perks there are perks to the job
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yeah and what is the what's the hardest part about transitioning from enduro
7:00
racing to gravel i mean i would think you have such an incredible skills from
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enduro transitioning to gravel,
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yes it's there are definite benefits to it but then also some drawbacks from
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going for enduro road to gravel.
7:17
So obviously bike handling is a massive thing when you're
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racing enduro you know you're flying downhill and there are trees coming
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at you there are corners coming at you there are gap jumps
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and things like that which you don't really get in gravel as much
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so my bike handling skills I think have always favoured
7:32
me quite well in gravel particularly when it's downhill
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or it's a little bit more technical and I tend to use
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those skills to make up a lot of time descending but
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I will say the fitness side from enduro
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to gravel is very very different a lot
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of enduro massively so enduro racing
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a lot of it what i did we don't get
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timed on the uphill you only get timed on the downhill you
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might have a time limit between your transitions which you've
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got to get to but that is a time limit which allows you to
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fix a puncture or have something to eat quickly
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so it's you know it's not like
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a sprinting time limit but you've got to push
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on a bit but yeah so it's a very difference in
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terms of fitness what you need from enduro to gravel
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so that is the main difference really is actually thinking you know I used to
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think I was quite fit but then when I started doing some gravel racing and gravel
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events and stuff I was like well I'm yeah I'm nowhere near as fit as I need
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to be for this so that's definitely been the hardest part but it's been so fun kind of thinking,
8:38
actually, how can I use my mountain bike skills in a gravel context as well? Yeah.
8:44
I was going to ask you, explain a little bit, just so if somebody doesn't know,
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anyone listening, if you can explain a little bit more what is enduro.
8:53
Let's take a step back. So enduro is definitely a sport that I think is really
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not that well known in mountain biking.
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You say you're a mountain biker, and I think people tend to go to downhill or cross country.
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And enduro does really mix the
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two of them up so what you might have is you have seven downhill stages in a
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day and you race those seven downhill stages and you're only timed on those
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seven downhill stages and your overall time on those each stage gets added up to get an overall time,
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but you don't get timed on the distance so the distance might be kind of 40
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50 kilometers all together but you don't get timed on that you only get timed
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on those seven downhill segments.
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A lot of the races you did have kind of a time limit
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to get between each of the stages so when you finish one stage
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you've got time limit to then get back up to your next stage some.
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Races don't have that time limit it depends if it's kind of more of a
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friendly race or not so yes it's very much your.
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Time only really matters when you're racing downhill and.
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Those downhill segments are quite full
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on sometimes if you're racing the world enduro series
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like a downhill section stage could last
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about 15 minutes by which point your hands are absolutely
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just I just remember one stage
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the first enduro series I ever did and I
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had to get off the bike and stop because my hands just
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couldn't pull the brakes anymore just the constant kind
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of rattling and again I wasn't strong I wasn't fit enough
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and I was like oh let's just have a go yeah I
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just I just could not hold on but sometimes it might only like you
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know a local race might last about three or four minutes downhill but
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it's um normally quite single tracky there's maybe
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some sprint sections in there some jumps and
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things like that so it's it's it's really it's
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really good fun but there's a lot going on in enduro race
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yeah yeah i guess because the
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difference with being gravel you are obviously timed for the
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entire distance and there's usually a lot
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of climbing so i yeah how are you
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how is your training now well I
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would say that before from enduro to gravel yeah I
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mean I definitely train now which I think is the main difference when I was
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racing enduro I just I just absolutely loved just riding my mountain bike and
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I still love riding my mountain bike I just love riding all bikes but all I
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cared about was how fast can I go downhill I just want to go really really fast downhill.
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And it's like switching off your brain and thinking like, you know,
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I'm not going to worry that that tree is coming up really fast and what's going to happen if I crash.
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So that was all I used to do. We just used to just go do laps and laps and laps
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of racing downhill because that's
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obviously riding downhill because that's where you'd make your time up.
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But now I do actually do structured training for my fitness.
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You know, I'll go on Zwift, I'll do sweet spot.
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Um my partner andy has a phd in exercise physiology and is a coach so he has
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made sure that i'm now quite rigorous in my training and you know i will say
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to him look i want to do this this is my race that i want coming up and then
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he'll sort of training plan out for me,
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so the main difference is that yes i do actually train.
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But I'm always very careful in saying to myself that the moment I view it as
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training that isn't fun, then I won't carry on in kind of the way I'm doing it.
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Because for me, training isn't, I don't want to view it as training.
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I want to view it as enjoying riding my bike.
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So I guess even by saying I never really used to train when I was racing enduro,
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I think it's just because I didn't view it as training. I just viewed it as
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riding my bike and having a good time because that's what I love to do.
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Yeah, I hear you. And that's what I've been doing now. I mean,
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I always enjoy the structured training.
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But lately, I have been feeling like I'm not having fun.
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Of course, I need to train because you need to be fit, you know,
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can just show up to races or show up to a ride and then, you know, be dropped.
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But yeah, it's important to enjoy not just like do it because you have to.
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So that's good to have the mindset.
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And to hear this from a pro like you, You know, it's not just,
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okay, I'm just a regular Joe and, you know, maybe it's harder for me,
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but I guess it's the same feeling.
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So it's good that you share that. Thank you. And I know it took you a while
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to recover from your knee injury, the torn ACL.
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It wasn't a small feat. I'm sure mentally as well, not just physically.
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How did you prepare yourself to come back to cycling? And when did you make
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the decision of, I'm not going to be racing enduro, I want to go into gravel?
13:26
Oh yeah so there are a couple of things I think that happened kind of at a similar
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time I just didn't you know I never thought I was going to injure myself which
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kind of gave me that or injure myself that badly that gave me a moment of kind
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of clarity about what I wanted to do.
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I mean racing and joy always had quite a lot of injuries I've broken my elbow
13:45
six times about both my arms at the same time I had the ligaments replaced in
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my elbow as well so I've had I've had quite a lot of injuries in my time.
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So I'm quite used to thinking how I'm going to get it. So you have the mental resilience.
13:59
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunately quite a skill set probably.
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But saying that, I think the moment I did my ACL, I honestly had no idea at
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the time that I torn my ACL. I was so confused.
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And I, when I went to see, I was in France when I did it, I was racing a three-day
14:16
race in France and it was the first day,
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the second stage of a three-day enduro so it wasn't an
14:21
ideal situation and I didn't know what tearing my
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ACL meant so the doctor in the hospital was like
14:27
yeah you've probably torn your ACL and I was like what three
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weeks four weeks and he was like well I'll go back to the UK and you know
14:33
see how see how it will go like I had
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just no idea what that meant but friends around me
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did and I could see them kind of being like it'll she'll figure
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it out soon what that might mean I guess
14:45
the ACL injury is quite it's a massive injury to have and it's actually coming
14:49
up quite a lot in in sport now so it feels like everyone's doing their ACL but
14:55
my surgery was just over a year ago and I've only just been discharged as an
15:01
outpatient from the hospital,
15:03
And only just finished my physio. So it's a really long time.
15:09
There are so many things that come with an ACL injury.
15:12
You have a graft but in. So they took some of my hamstring out where my ligament just snapped.
15:19
And then they cut some of my hamstring and turned that into a new ligament.
15:25
My jaw is dropping for anyone who can't see me. Oh, my God.
15:29
And you have to wait. yeah that's intense
15:33
it's huge yeah and you have to wait for
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that new graft that they've taken out of you and put back into your knee you
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have to wait for that to get blood flow and that is what takes quite a long
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time so it's yeah it's it's a really it's a really big operation whilst it's
15:50
really common injury it's yeah it's like a year I suppose of your life which is kind of impacted by,
15:56
that injury so it
15:59
was huge and I think that's that's an injury that is I think is
16:02
going to stick with me mentally more than any of my my other
16:04
injuries but I had
16:07
been racing in Joro for so long and for people
16:10
that are in the UK and maybe race in Joro are kind of familiar with
16:13
the scene there are less and less races coming
16:16
up at the moment and I think because of the issues that are
16:19
facing the cycling industry there's just not as much money
16:21
going in into into a Joro racing so a lot of the race organizers
16:25
are actually folding and there's less racing here so I'd
16:29
already started to think about yeah it's it's really frustrating so I'd already
16:33
started to think about do I still want to do enduro or do I want to try something
16:37
else and and I had that thing again in my head where it's like well am I actually
16:41
enjoying racing enduro still or am I just doing it because you know I'm Rachel
16:45
and I race enduro and I love riding my mountain bike.
16:49
So it was very funny that it was in France during this big three-day race that
16:54
I did my ACL and it really then cemented to me that I was like right first of
17:01
all this is a massive injury I don't know if I want to risk.
17:07
Racing races like this again having had
17:11
this massive injury and knowing that if maybe I put my foot
17:13
out again that same thing could happen so I
17:17
just say when I tore my ACL it wasn't a massive crash I was going around
17:20
a corner quite fast and it was like
17:22
off camber and I just put my foot out to kind
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of stable myself my foot went into the floor and
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then just twisted around and then that that snapped my acl
17:32
yeah you
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know you're not selling it i i that's one thing like
17:39
i when i look at mountain biking maybe like you when
17:42
you were at that beach in greece i always think
17:44
oh my god this looks so much fun but then you see people coming
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out of the mountains always with a broken bone
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scratches blood and i'm like no
17:53
i pass i'll pass i think
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you have to have yeah i'm already clumsy on gravel you do
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you have to be like so all my other injuries like I just didn't care
18:04
I've managed to put them behind me but I guess like I'm in my 30s now
18:07
so a big injury like that was probably oh no
18:10
this is bad sort of thing and less to kind of yeah maybe to put things into
18:15
context while I was able to put things into context more so yeah that injury
18:19
really helped me think where do I want to go next and do I want to try something
18:24
different and at the time I was.
18:28
Racing with Hot Pissed Cycles and we were supported by Specialized
18:32
and we got free bikes but it was actually quite good timing
18:35
because that kind of partnership was coming to an end so
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I gave my bike back and then
18:41
I was like right well I don't have a bike now what I don't have an Enduro bike
18:45
so what do I get next and I already had a gravel bike but that's when I thought
18:49
right okay when I'm back from this injury and ready I'm going to ride I'm going
18:53
to focus now on racing gravel and XC and And then just put Enduro to the side slightly.
19:00
So yeah, it was a weird kind of all of these things kind of came to a head at the same time.
19:06
And then I think the injury really just kind of helped me think,
19:08
what do I want to do next? And do I want to try something different?
19:12
Now it makes sense. Now I understand. It's not just because gravel was popular.
19:17
It was like a series of things that made you come to that conclusion.
19:20
And then you went to race again, but on gravel this time.
19:26
And then on your first gravel race, you qualify for the gravel world championship. ship.
19:35
I read a few articles and I was cracking up, especially the part about Andy,
19:40
your partner, because it was also talking about Valtteri Bottas, the F1 driver.
19:45
I think everyone in that race did not want him, Bottas, to be ahead.
19:51
So tell me a little bit about the entire experience.
19:53
You were there, your partner was also racing.
19:56
This was your second gravel race and you were the world championship how did
20:00
it all go it was crazy I will say I felt so sorry for Valtteri Bottas I think
20:06
he had more of a target on his back than Vanderbilt did in that race.
20:11
The amount of people that I think he had going up
20:14
to him and saying something like oh my gosh I rode next to
20:16
Valtteri Bottas and oh my gosh I overtook Valtteri Bottas like
20:19
the poor man just wanted to get along with his race so that
20:23
that was very entertaining so yeah it
20:26
was it's good to have him there in the sport I think
20:29
it's probably a good place to start is at the the
20:32
qualifying race for it to be honest so yeah
20:37
it was my first race back my first event back since my injury so it was already
20:46
kind of like a big thing for me because of that and I think actually the race
20:51
was a year to the very day since I had my surgery.
20:55
So it marked the exact year point for my surgery, the qualifying race did.
21:00
And I didn't, I had no idea whether or not I'd be ready to race at the end of the year or not.
21:05
I had no expectations upon myself. If I did do a race or an event,
21:09
I would just consider myself very fortunate to be in that situation.
21:12
And thankfully, I think because I'd worked so hard on my rehab,
21:16
didn't miss a rehab session, just absolutely tried to nail it.
21:20
I was able to do that race.
21:22
And then that, that was a crazy race. And I knew I had to do quite well because
21:27
obviously it's top 25%, but there weren't very many people racing that day.
21:30
So you did actually have to come, I think you had to come third or fourth.
21:34
I can't really remember.
21:36
So that, yeah, that was crazy. And I definitely didn't feel fit enough for that.
21:42
It went off so hard. It was the one in Wales.
21:46
And I was like, I cannot, I cannot keep up with that.
21:49
And then I was like, that's it, right? I don't really know what to do. I know
21:52
I'm not in a qualifying position so I was
21:55
like oh it's too hard I'll just go home I'll just go back to the
21:58
beginning of the race and I was like no no Rach just carry
22:01
on you can just you can still have a good time it's fine you know
22:03
you're riding your bike so I carried on and then eventually passed
22:07
someone and when I passed them I knew that would put me in
22:10
the qualifying position so in that
22:13
moment I was like oh my gosh what like what could
22:16
happen here this is crazy so I just kind of like carried on and yeah tried to
22:21
use all the skills I had to not tire myself out because that was a hard race
22:26
it was quite a long race and really hilly which was quite a contrast to the
22:30
world champs actually so that was crazy and,
22:34
So qualified through that race and just hadn't, like, I didn't know how to feel,
22:40
to be honest. It was so weird.
22:41
I was crying so much. And then I finished and realized. You want to come back.
22:45
Yes, it was crazy.
22:48
And I crossed the finish line and then it was a bit confusing to begin with
22:51
because I was told I hadn't qualified. And I was like, oh, wait, what? I'm so confused.
22:54
And then they said, yes, you have qualified. And I was like,
22:57
oh, my God, my emotions are all over the place right now.
23:00
And then I saw my partner Andy and then realized he'd qualified in a third as
23:04
well but he'd missed the podium because he was eating a burger typical typical yeah yeah,
23:12
so that yeah I just didn't I just really didn't know how to feel it was so weird
23:19
feeling like wow I you know I can go to the world champs now because I've qualified
23:23
and it's my first race back this is absolutely crazy and my first gravel race just what just happened.
23:31
Incredible incredible I'm so happy for you and you say you're not
23:34
fit but for me you you know you always look so fit
23:37
and incredible but obviously we know our
23:40
potential and where we should be obviously you you you
23:43
got it because you went there and it was not an easy
23:46
race Wales is super hilly it feels like you just climbed
23:49
there's no descent and you qualified and your
23:52
partner qualify with you so then you guys went I think was in Belgium
23:55
right to the world yeah it was yeah it
23:59
was so it was quite ridiculous to be
24:01
honest because the qualifying race in
24:04
Wales was 10 days before the race in
24:07
Belgium so we only had 10 days to
24:10
kind of think oh are we going to do this are we going to go to Belgium
24:13
and it took us a while to decide because
24:16
I was like no way can I do this you know i bet
24:19
like i haven't trained at all this just
24:22
seems ridiculous sort of thing but
24:25
then we're like no let's go this opportunity is here we don't know what will
24:28
happen next year we might as well go while we've got the chance so that is what
24:34
we did we just sort of said yeah okay 10 days let's go let's figure everything
24:38
out and let's go to the world champs in belgium and another a friend of ours
24:42
had qualified in Wales. So we all kind of went over together.
24:45
And honestly, I'm so glad we went, but the feelings of imposter syndrome were absolutely crazy.
24:55
It was like, yeah, you know, you pull on your GB kit and you just think, why am I wearing this?
25:01
Like, how am I wearing this GB kit? This is insane.
25:05
And you think, no, it's fine. I've, you know, I qualified here,
25:07
you know, I should be here, but it's, it's quite hard to. exactly you earned
25:12
it but i get the feeling i come from triathlon and i i,
25:17
I was lucky enough to qualify for two world championships. And I remember my
25:21
first one just being so intimidated and looking at everybody around me.
25:24
And I felt like, oh my God, everybody's fitter.
25:27
Everybody's stronger. I don't belong. What am I doing?
25:31
But then, like you said, it was like, you know, my coach actually told me,
25:34
she's just like, there's nothing to be done in this race because the pros are
25:40
there. They're going to get the podiums.
25:41
There's no qualification. Just have fun.
25:44
Just have fun. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. It doesn't matter.
25:46
It doesn't matter. It's just for fun.
25:49
And I don't know about you, but I find that can be a nice feeling in a race
25:54
compared to actually where you've got full on actual pressure from yourself.
25:58
Like I can do well, you know, I'm going to be on the podium.
26:00
Whereas races where you don't necessarily have that feeling,
26:05
it's so different and sometimes quite a bit more enjoyable in a way.
26:11
A hundred percent i don't know who i was talking to about
26:14
this you know because of course getting to a podium or
26:17
getting like to a personal best it's such
26:20
a great feeling you know that your training is paying off but
26:24
i also have amazing joy
26:27
and it just it's just
26:31
different when you are just having fun and there's nothing
26:34
to be gained you know it's like you said maybe
26:37
even more than getting a podium yeah exactly
26:41
it definitely is and I think that
26:44
I guess that's something coming from enduro to gravel
26:47
and different sorts of racing is I would go to
26:50
an enduro race and think I want to be
26:53
on the podium like I'm going to enjoy it but ultimately
26:56
my goal here is to be on the podium and if
27:00
I wasn't I'd be like what did I do wrong because I was quite used to be on the
27:04
podium so going I think going to a different sort of racing it was quite nice
27:08
to have that feeling of I don't I don't know what's going to happen I don't
27:12
really have an expectation or anything and that was so much more apparent in.
27:19
Obviously the gravel world champs because you're kind of there to
27:22
be like what an experience I don't know what's going to
27:25
happen it's going to be crazy but I get
27:28
to experience this crazy race in Belgium and it
27:32
was absolutely crazy and I think it's so good that the
27:36
gravel world champs are done in this format where different
27:40
age cats are racing at the same time on the same
27:42
course as the pros because it
27:45
just makes it this experience that you just don't really
27:49
get anywhere else you think about how many
27:51
people were there and kind of the atmosphere around the race
27:54
was absolutely insane I
27:58
mean it was really hard but the whole time you're going around you just think
28:01
I'm here and I'm doing this this is so cool and Belgium cycling fans are next
28:07
level they're just lining the streets and just everyone is shouting yeah it's
28:13
it was absolutely crazy such a high yeah yeah.
28:18
So I guess you made your mark. It looks like, you know, you're really enjoying it.
28:24
I can see this big smile on your face as you're talking about these experiences.
28:28
So are you planning to continue on gravel racing? What would be your personal
28:32
goals in gravel racing moving forward?
28:35
So I want to try and qualify for the World Champs again next year.
28:40
So the first race coming up is the Growlok, which is in May.
28:45
That's to qualify for the World Champs.
28:48
That's the only race i've entered so far if i
28:50
don't qualify there then we'll probably try and qualify somewhere else
28:53
but my my ultimate goal is to go back to the gravel
28:57
world champs which is in nice next year and
29:00
then obviously alongside the gravel racing i've got the
29:03
xc racing as well but kind of my priority in
29:06
gravel is qualifying for the world champs so everything for gravel
29:09
will be leading up towards that and trying to qualify for that i'm really
29:13
bad at saying what my goals are because like I
29:17
just think if I've got goals I'm like I get obsessed with it and I'd
29:20
rather sometimes not have that I don't know if that
29:22
makes sense like no it
29:25
makes sense it's just self-awareness you know it's good you have
29:28
self-awareness you don't want to be on that spot of obsessing
29:31
and just take one race at a time sounds good to
29:34
me yeah yeah I guess it comes back
29:37
to that thing of thinking about I just want
29:40
to make sure it's fun and I guess
29:43
this is what I did with enduro is I was like quite well
29:46
if I'm I just this is going to sound so
29:49
bad but I just got to the point where if I
29:52
wasn't on the podium I was like this isn't fun anymore which
29:55
is just a terrible mindset to be in when you're racing because I should have
30:00
just been enjoying it for what it is but unfortunately that's that's where my
30:04
brain went yeah but you're also you're also a pro and you are I guess making
30:09
your living off of that as well and you reached a point that you want to continue chasing that.
30:16
So, I don't know. I understand. I understand the mindset, but obviously...
30:22
You should also have fun when you don't get to the podium. But what I'm trying
30:25
to say is that it doesn't mean that it cannot be a letdown as well,
30:28
you know, because you, like you said, you set your goals and you want to be there.
30:32
And then you're so good at what you do and you're just getting all these victories.
30:35
And then if you don't get it, you're just maybe taking it too hard on yourself.
30:41
So it's good that you're, sounds like now you're finding a little bit more balance
30:45
and just having fun, but you're still getting on the podium. himself.
30:49
Yeah, I think it's a, I think, I guess it's a constant quest with sports people, I suppose.
30:55
And I guess you probably know from all of your events you take part in is finding
30:59
how you manage that point where something is,
31:04
you know, you're enjoying the competitive side, but you're still having fun
31:06
at the same time, because obviously you don't compete if you don't care about
31:11
results, but you don't want the results to absolutely dominate your thoughts
31:16
towards participation in an event.
31:18
And that balance, I think, is quite hard for people who genuinely are quite
31:22
competitive people in sports, which I probably experienced as well.
31:27
Yeah, absolutely. I'm going through a phase now because I also used to race
31:32
a lot and I was also getting to a lot of podiums and it feels really good.
31:38
But I think I've reached a plateau and I'm not getting stronger.
31:41
I'm not getting faster. And it feels like everyone's getting faster and faster
31:45
and faster. I can't keep up.
31:46
I'm also getting older, not an excuse, but I'm just trying to find a way that
31:51
I'm like, I don't want to let myself down and I want to continue to enjoy because I love cycling.
31:56
So I'm just on the mindset of like, I'm here just to enjoy and not compete.
32:01
I'm trying to do more things for fun and see if that organically comes back to me.
32:09
The race bug. And speaking of that, this race has nothing to do with the podcast.
32:14
I'm not making any money but I'm going I'm going to the UK for a for fun race
32:19
it's I think it's called stone circle I don't know if you heard about it I want
32:24
to do that one it should be a lot of fun.
32:27
Goes through Stonehenge. Yeah, it looks incredible.
32:31
I'm definitely going to try and come along to that one. I've put it in my calendar
32:34
as, I think, are the entries open now? I can't quite remember.
32:38
They have an early bird now, yeah. That's it. So it is, yeah,
32:42
it's off into the link. Yeah, thank you. So hopefully, hopefully I'll see you there.
32:46
Yeah, that would be cool. Yeah, I definitely want to go because I've been to
32:50
Stonehenge before, but never on a bicycle. I know they're going to open those roads for the race.
32:55
So that should be super magical yeah
32:59
definitely i think i've actually never cycled there but
33:01
my parents do a lot of gravel riding around there and they say
33:05
it is absolutely amazing so that
33:07
race should be fantastic yeah looking forward to
33:10
it so but you also do a little bit of i guess not competitive but
33:13
you also do some training maybe on road cycling or no not at all yeah i ride
33:18
ride my road bike a lot I spend a lot of time on my road bike probably probably
33:25
most of the time actually on my
33:26
road bike which feels a bit weird to say I find that road cycling for me,
33:33
I find it really easy to just kind of
33:36
switch off and get in a really nice flow state
33:39
with road cycling which is a bit different to
33:42
this kind of state you get in with mountain biking or
33:45
gravel cycling because it's off-road so you're
33:48
always kind of constantly aware of like
33:50
is there a tree is there a massive rock is there a rut or something like
33:53
that and I know there are cars on the road but when
33:57
maybe it's because I'm always drafting someone and I don't have to concentrate
34:01
but I just I just love it it's so nice to just kind of go on a fast road and
34:10
just pedal and just get into that flow and it's yeah I absolutely love it.
34:16
And I guess it's, I mean, it's obviously very good for training as well.
34:19
So just going out and spending three, four hours on my road bike with a group
34:23
of guys so they can absolutely destroy me has definitely helped with my fitness.
34:29
So there are multiple reasons why I do spend a lot of time on my road bike.
34:32
And sometimes I'm like, do you, shall I do a road race? Shall I? I'm not, I'm not sure.
34:38
There are a couple local ones I've got my eye on, but I just don't,
34:42
I always like to have one element of cycling, which is something I do for fun and I don't compete in.
34:50
So that, you know, I've got that element, which I'm just like,
34:53
I'm just going for a road ride. There's, you know, yeah, okay.
34:55
It's for fitness, but I'm not worried about racing my road bike or anything.
34:58
So yeah, I always try and maybe have one form of cycling that is just left to
35:03
just be, and doesn't have to be competitive.
35:07
That makes sense. That makes sense. everything made sense. Also the training
35:10
and the training with the guys or anyone who is stronger always makes you stronger,
35:15
trying to keep up and pushing just a notch higher than the usual.
35:20
Yeah, it's definitely helpful. So now that you have competed in two different
35:26
disciplines, enduro and gravel, would you have any advice to share with riders
35:30
that would like to try a new discipline and make a similar transition?
35:35
Yeah and I and I I guess this is from my perspective because I always get so
35:40
stressed that I'm going to look stupid when I try a new discipline of cycling.
35:46
And so I think a word of advice is just don't worry
35:49
you know ultimately everyone there
35:52
should be there to just have fun and everyone
35:55
is going to be so supportive of a new person coming in
35:58
and giving it a go nobody is going to worry
36:01
about whether or not you've got the wrong jersey on the
36:04
wrong helmet and if they do then that is
36:06
really not okay so it's just just do you
36:09
and just go and have a go and the amount
36:12
of people that'll be like oh I just don't you know I'm worried about you know what
36:15
I might look like I don't want to come last which is fair enough we've all
36:18
been there but you'll go out and you'll do it and you'll realize
36:21
that none of that really matters and it would just probably be one of the most
36:25
fun things you've ever done and I think that's it you've just kind of got to
36:29
let go of kind of thinking what will people think of me when I come last and
36:32
just go for it which is easier said than done like honestly I stress so much
36:36
when I'm trying out a new discipline I did cyclocross last year,
36:39
And I was like, I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't want to look like an idiot.
36:44
And then I did it. That was so much fun. It was so good.
36:48
But I spent like a week before my first go at Cyclocross just being like,
36:52
oh, I don't really want to do it. I'll just look like an idiot.
36:54
But yeah, it really doesn't matter.
36:57
And you've just got to give it a go because you'll never know otherwise.
37:01
Yeah, you're right. I like that advice. Just don't be afraid of what people
37:07
are going to think, what you look like, just go and have fun.
37:11
It's easier said than done, like you said, but it's something to keep in mind.
37:16
Yeah, absolutely. And I always think as well, like, if you do something that
37:20
looks a bit silly, and you're beating yourself up about it, you're probably
37:23
the only person that's going to really care.
37:25
Because everyone else is probably just going to be like, oh, that was a bit funny.
37:29
And they'll forget about it an hour later, or even 15 minutes later.
37:32
And you're the only person that's going to be hung up on the fact you think
37:35
you looked a bit silly, because really, you didn't.
37:37
Nobody else really cares that much so i think that's it it's yeah it's trying to not kind of,
37:43
yeah get into your head about that which i know i do a lot when i'm competing
37:47
or trying new sports but it can hold people back and you've just got to let
37:51
go of it a little bit and just for fun do you have any dream races or any cycling
37:56
adventures that you would love to tackle next or in the near future?
38:02
I'd love to. So this summer, we did two weeks backpacking across France.
38:09
So this wouldn't be a race, but I'd love to maybe just spend a month,
38:14
six weeks, two months cycling all through Europe or somewhere different.
38:18
I mean, Patagonia would be amazing.
38:21
Yeah, that would be just a dream to do.
38:26
Even like doing two weeks across France was just two of the best weeks of my life.
38:31
You know, when you're bikepacking, and you know all about this,
38:34
obviously, is, especially when it's not a race, you're just like,
38:38
all right, all I have to do is wake up, get some food, ride my bike to somewhere, get some food.
38:43
And that is fantastic.
38:45
Like, what better way to spend your time than cycling and eating and then cycling
38:50
to another place and then eating.
38:52
Like, what more could you want? A hundred percent. Yeah.
38:56
Yeah, I also keep on daydreaming on how can I hack, you know,
39:01
three months off to ride across Europe or anywhere, you know,
39:05
like you said, just be on your bike, eating,
39:09
seeing different places, different people, different cultures,
39:11
new foods, dream come true.
39:14
Hopefully you get those six weeks off someday. yeah
39:18
hopefully hopefully I'll try and engineer it so that
39:21
I can because that is yeah I just there's just
39:24
something about bikepacking I think and particularly bikepacking off-road
39:27
that it just makes you forget about everything else
39:30
and you are literally just riding your bike
39:33
and that and that is it and just going from A to B and
39:37
when you're going from A to B on a bike as well it's just such
39:40
a pleasant way of traveling without having
39:43
to get in a car or anything like that so yeah an
39:47
extended bikepacking trip would be my absolute dream
39:50
yeah I agree Juliet
39:53
and I did our last one in Norway and then we're
39:56
thinking we really need to go someplace warmer next time
39:59
and cheaper so we're planning something for
40:02
next year but definitely no more than a week because we
40:05
all have to come back to kids and jobs yeah it would be so
40:07
amazing I mean your Norway trip that did that did look cold the amount
40:10
of clothes you guys were wearing for that trip yes it
40:15
was chilly and we were camping but with
40:18
the right gear i was impressed it was the first time that
40:21
i was bikepacking you know for that length of time
40:24
in the cold juliette let me borrow her waterproof pants and they were amazing
40:30
and then i had all my other stuff and really didn't feel cold and actually we're
40:35
even hot at night inside our i mean we had separate tents but where it even
40:39
gets hot because I guess the tent gets all zipped up.
40:43
That's amazing. And you're just breathing the air. I don't know what it is,
40:46
but even I got hot and didn't use the sleeping bag as much.
40:51
That's so good. I mean, there's nothing worse, I think, for me personally that
40:54
can ruin a bike packing trip than being too cold.
40:57
I just don't want that on a bike packing trip.
41:00
Cold or wet, because there was one of the days we set up our camping and...
41:08
It started to pour so badly, so badly. We were in this camping ground.
41:14
I don't know what's the technical term. But anyways, the owner of the place came.
41:19
He also had some cabins nearby. And he was like, if you want to go into one
41:23
of my cabins, I have one empty. You don't have to pay me.
41:26
You can go there. I think he felt so sorry that we were in this storm camping.
41:32
But we actually stayed in our tents because just to cross over to the cabin,
41:36
we would get soaked. And the tents held up really well, both of our tents.
41:41
Oh, good. That shows, like, you know, bikepacking, if you do have the right
41:46
gear, you can survive any weather, which is helpful.
41:51
Yeah, and I think it's Justine Slaveka, he's a big-time ultra racer,
41:56
and he told me, and it's so true, comfort is the speed as well.
42:01
Because if you're not comfortable, you just can't move too far.
42:05
Yeah yeah that's very true I think
42:08
yeah we so I use
42:11
with my gravel racing I use
42:15
the specialized diverge and I use that for my bikepacking as well and it's not
42:19
the raciest of bikes by any stretch but I find it so comfortable and I use it
42:25
for bikepacking as well I basically use it for absolutely everything I use it
42:28
for cyclocross and that bike is it's so comfortable just for everything.
42:35
And that definitely plays a massive part, I think, in how you experience any
42:39
form of cycling is making sure your bike is comfortable.
42:42
Yeah, absolutely. And when you're not cycling, do you have any other hobbies?
42:48
I know, you know, both you and Andy are PhD.
42:52
And I guess you just finished your doctorate. Like what is a typical day for you?
42:57
What do you like to do besides cycling if you
43:00
have any other hobbies or passions so yeah I finished
43:03
so you have a PhD in human geography and I studied young
43:06
people's well-being in environmental education so looking at
43:09
how their connection young people's connection to nature can support their well-being
43:12
and how different contexts change the experience of nature so I'm really into
43:18
kind of research around that I finished my PhD in 2021 and then I kind of just
43:25
carried on doing research in different settings But I currently,
43:28
I actually work for a charity and I run their education programmes to support
43:34
young people to take action for,
43:37
environmental and societal issues. So that's how I spend my days,
43:41
really, is kind of working for that charity.
43:45
But then I also have... Wow, what a noble cause.
43:48
Yeah. Education is super important. You know, it's evolution.
43:51
We can have a better society if everybody has the same chances in education.
43:58
It's a big part of it. Yes. It's a massive thing for me.
44:01
I think, you know, education underpins absolutely everything.
44:05
And if we don't have a fair and equal education then that is going to be kind
44:10
of the downfall to society and climate change and sustainability and things
44:14
like that so it's a huge thing for me and I think that's kind of what inspired
44:17
me to do my PhD and where I go in the work that I do as well,
44:21
and also I think riding my bike is a massive connection to nature thing just
44:25
spending time in natural environments and riding my bike but aside from that
44:29
as well I mean I obviously love
44:32
spending time outdoors. So I've got an allotment and I've got chickens.
44:35
So aside from cycling, I just spend a lot of time in the garden,
44:38
tending to my allotment and then also hanging out with my chickens.
44:43
So that is basically me. That's right.
44:48
I love that. That's what I want. I want the chicken, not a farm,
44:52
but you know what I mean? Just a chicken coop. I love that. So you have your own eggs.
44:56
Is that how you say it? Do they hatch eggs? I don't know what's the right term.
45:00
So yes, they lay eggs. Yeah. So I've got free chickens.
45:04
They're not laying at the moment because it's winter and they are malting.
45:09
So they've lost all their feathers so they can get their new winter feathers.
45:12
So they're not laying at the moment and they look warm.
45:14
And I think they're a bit cold, but they'll be all right. So yeah,
45:17
when they do lay eggs, then we get free a day.
45:20
So we've got free chickens, I get free eggs a day, which is amazing because
45:23
Andy doesn't eat eggs. He doesn't like them.
45:25
So I have to get free quite a lot of eggs, which is handy for protein.
45:29
But free exit soon racks up for one person.
45:35
Well I'm an agaholic so I would have no problem with that that's really cool,
45:40
Hence, I've been wanting to have my own chicken coop, but we don't have the space for it.
45:46
But one day I'm going to cross that off my bucket list.
45:51
I mean, you absolutely should.
45:54
You know what they say about animals and they just kind of make you feel better
45:57
if you're a bit stressed.
45:58
Like sometimes I'll just go sit outside with my chickens. I know it's not like
46:02
a dog or a cat, but chickens, I mean, chickens are fantastic.
46:06
I'm sure. I'm sure. I can't wait to find out and get closer.
46:12
Well Rachel it's been so much fun chatting with you really enjoyed thank you so much,
46:18
no thank you it has been so great to chat to you as well and an honor to be
46:23
spoken to among all your other fantastic guests at the same time thank you thank
46:28
you I wish you an amazing 2025 season,
46:31
hopefully we get to see each other on that race in Stonehenge and then see you
46:37
in Gerona for sure you and Andy. Yeah, absolutely.
46:40
Let's make some plans and see you at some races and events soon.
46:44
And that's all for today's episode. I want to thank the listeners for tuning in.
46:49
Your support means everything. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider
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46:58
Music.