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8: When You Feel Called to Change Careers · Finding God at Work

• 0:05
  (Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
• 0:07
  This is Finding God at Work.
• 0:14
  Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
• 0:16
  isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
• 0:18
  course.
• 0:19
  Check it out at FindingGodAtWork.org.
• 0:27
  Our current series is Divine Disappointments, Facing Pain
• 0:31
  and Sorrow at Work.
• 0:33
  And today we have a special guest, Claire
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  Van Der Weel.
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  Thanks so much for being with us, Claire.
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  Yeah, thank you.
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  I've known Claire for a long time.
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  Actually, how long?
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  What year did you get baptized?
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  It was about 11 years ago.
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  11.
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  It's over a decade.
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  Yeah.
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  And Claire may share more about her story
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  of kind of getting involved in church and
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  faith.
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  But I wanted to talk with Claire because
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  she is right now in the middle of
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  a big vocational shift in her life.
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  So you have been the VP of marketing
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  operations at Echo Gravity, which focuses on business
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  to business marketing.
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  But what are you moving on to now?
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  I am sort of going through this big
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  life pivot.
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  We're going to be homeschooling our three kids.
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  And also, we just trained to become a
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  birth doula.
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  So massive life pivot.
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  Yeah, I bet that the club of former
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  business to business marketing execs who are now
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  birth doulas, it's like a small, small club,
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  an elite group of people.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, we'll get back to your story in
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  a little bit, but just wanted to start
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  with a question we usually ask guests, which
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  is, since the title of the podcast is
• 1:38
  finding God at work, how do you find
• 1:40
  God at work?
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  What's helpful for you just on an everyday
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  work day to welcome God's presence?
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  Yeah, I have to get up for my
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  kids to be able to do that.
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  It doesn't always work.
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  It's not always perfect.
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  But if I can get up before anyone
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  else in the house wakes up, I can
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  sit there, my cup of coffee, my Bible,
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  my journal, and just have that quiet time
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  with God, and just freely imagine him there
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  in the room with me, then it sets
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  the tone for the rest of the day.
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  And I can kind of enter into work
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  with that foundation and kind of go from
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  there.
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  So I usually have a little scripture verse
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  on the background of my computer as well,
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  that I'm always just in the back of
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  my mind.
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  So that's sort of the general.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  Just something simple to pull you back during
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  the day.
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  That's great.
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  That's great.
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  So thinking about your story, before you got
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  to this moment, you were a graduate of
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  Augustana, right?
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  Did I say that right?
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  Augustana.
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  I mixed up the on, the at.
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  That's great.
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  Augustana.
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  I could start Augustana College.
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  Augustana.
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  And you were an English major, right?
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  English and philosophy.
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  English and philosophy.
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  Okay, so how did you move from that
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  experience into this marketing career?
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  Yeah, well, I graduated in 2009.
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  Oh, great time to graduate.
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  Exactly.
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  There weren't a lot of jobs.
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  But I found just a random little job
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  that was like 10 bucks an hour as
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  an admin.
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  And it happened to be for a staffing
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  firm.
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  And that role very quickly migrated into a
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  marketing role, mostly because I had the writing,
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  and they needed the writing for writing various
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  marketing pieces.
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  So it was fortuitous that it was in
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  staffing, particularly because the place I ended up
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  going and have spent the rest of my
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  career is a marketing agency for staffing companies.
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  So yeah, I've sort of, quote unquote, climbed
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  up the corporate ladder, so to speak, I
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  work for a small company, so it's not
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  a big ladder.
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  But yeah, I've just sort of learned and
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  grown over the last 16 years of doing
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  that.
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  For sure.
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  So kind of going through that experience, trying
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  to get a job during the recession, you've
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  got humanities degrees, you're a writer.
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  How did you experience the journey of kind
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  of becoming a more corporate worker and leaning
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  into that as you got started in your
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  career?
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  Yeah, it was a lot of self education,
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  which honestly, I think a lot of marketers
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  are self learned.
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  I mean, of course, you get a degree
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  in it.
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  But there's a lot of resources out there.
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  There's a lot of associations, a lot of
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  articles, books, all that kind of thing.
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  And I came onto the scene right when
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  there was a lot of new things going
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  on anyway, like social media for the businesses
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  was still a new thing.
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  And so I could sort of learn along
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  with everyone else in the industry.
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  And yeah, I've had a lot of really
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  great mentors who have helped me.
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  I work in an agency setting for the
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  last 11 years now.
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  So every client that I work with is
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  a little bit different.
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  And I can try out new things.
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  And it's been trial and error and self
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  learning.
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  But that's generally how I've grown over the
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  years.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  Now, since we know each other personally, I
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  know that you had a pretty significant kind
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  of coming to faith experience as an adult,
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  I was wondering, what point in your career
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  did that happen?
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  And did that shape your experience of work
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  in any way?
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  How did your faith end up connecting with
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  your career journey?
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  Yeah, that's a great question.
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  I came to faith about five years after
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  I graduated college.
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  My first husband passed away three years into
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  our marriage, and we had an 18 month
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  old son.
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  And at that time, I was not a
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  Christian.
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  But after his death, I was very much
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  seeking the meaning of life, all the big
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  questions, as I was processing all that really
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  raw grief.
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  And ended up at a church where it
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  just felt like home.
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  I had asked a lot of questions and
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  came to Christianity from a very intellectual and
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  a miracle standpoint, but found a church that
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  not only could answer those questions, but could
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  also sort of bring it home for me
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  that it was more than just that, it
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  was about that relationship with God and the
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  faith and the mystery and the love and
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  all the subjective things that you cannot put
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  an empirical equation behind.
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  So yeah, my faith has grown ever since
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  then.
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  From a work perspective, though, I think that
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  has been a very slow process.
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  And I think God has slowly led me
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  through that at a pace that I could
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  handle.
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  And it really wasn't until the last three
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  or four years, where also I've worked closely
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  with a spiritual director, just like, I don't
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  know what it looks like to find God
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  at work.
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  I don't.
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  Even if I am sitting down with a
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  Bible before my kids wake up in the
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  morning, I enter work and often feel very
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  spiritually empty.
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  So working with someone else who can help
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  with that objective outside perspective really helped.
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  And my faith has certainly grown stronger through
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  that time, but has also opened up a
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  lot of new doors and windows.
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  So yeah, so as you were meeting with
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  your spiritual director and shout out to spiritual
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  directors and spiritual director in general, I'm encouraging
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  people to embrace that tradition more.
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  When you were having those conversations, what kind
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  of questions were you asking?
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  What kind of things would you say to
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  your director about how work felt and what
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  you were facing?
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  Yeah, I'm trying to remember now.
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  It's been a while.
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  A lot of it was venting, if I'm
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  being honest.
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  As much as I love the people I
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  work with and the work that I'm doing
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  is engaging and all of that.
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  And it's a flexible job, like all the
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  perks of a really great job.
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  But I just feel spiritually empty.
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  It just doesn't feel as fulfilling as I
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  want it to.
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  And why does God have me here?
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  Is it just because it helps me pay
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  the bills?
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  Is that the only redeeming factor here?
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  And I can be generous with that money.
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  And for a long time, that's really what
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  I settled into.
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  And I feel like I tried all the
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  things to help me feel more spiritually grounded
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  at work with the help of my spiritual
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  director, whether it was lighting a candle, sort
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  of inviting the Holy Spirit into my office
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  space, more scripture verses, just little trinkets that
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  would be that sort of grounding, tangible thing.
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  But over time, it was kind of clear
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  that God was calling me into something else.
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  Yeah, so it sounds like it wasn't just
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  a move away from this sense of emptiness,
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  but also a move to some things that
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  God was kind of putting on your heart.
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  So how did you begin to feel that
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  nudge or that call toward those things?
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  Yeah, that was definitely something, an interesting experience,
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  because for probably several years, three or four
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  years, I was like, man, I just, if
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  I could do something else, I would.
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  But it was never the specific job that
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  was the problem.
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  As I mentioned, it was a great job.
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  But I just didn't love it.
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  I came home at the end of day
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  feeling like, oh, I just want to be
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  doing something else.
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  But I don't know what that is.
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  And it's not another job.
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  What would I do?
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  I'm stuck in this.
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  It was a very like, downward spiral thought
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  process.
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  I just had to like, leave behind me
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  at the end of the day to just
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  be functioning.
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  But as my middle child, he was in
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  first grade during the last year.
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  And he was thriving, but he wasn't thriving
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  in a way that I felt would be
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  sustainable for him just in public school.
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  And I love our schools.
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  Our schools have been great.
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  My oldest son has been doing amazing.
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  But with my middle child, I kind of
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  encountered this question of, is this the right
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  fit?
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  And even start questioning this stuff, right?
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  We needed my job financially.
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  I started out at the beginning of last
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  year saying, if we did something different, if
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  we thought about the question of potentially homeschooling
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  our kids, which felt to me as the
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  only other option, it would take an act
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  of God financially to be able to do
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  that.
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  It felt impossible.
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  However, it still felt like this question that
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  I was called to try and battle with
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  a little bit.
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  So I kept asking these questions, kept praying
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  over it, kept talking to my spiritual director
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  about it.
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  My husband and I prayed over it together
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  and journaled over it constantly.
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  We got to a point in the year
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  where it was like, well, maybe we should
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  do our finances and see if it would
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  be possible to do this.
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  Because, you know, I mean, we have a
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  pretty good handle on it.
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  We budget every month, but we've never sat
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  down and said, what would this look like
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  if I totally left my job right now?
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  This would be a really big deal.
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  Is it even possible?
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  And so we downloaded all the data.
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  We fixed up this big spreadsheet and said
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  like, oh, it is possible.
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  It's not comfortable, but it's possible.
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  And yeah, so it was very much this
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  transition from, okay, not only am I quote
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  unquote running away from something, but I'm running
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  towards something else.
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  And that felt like this massive shift for
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  me.
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  Like I'm not just looking for another job.
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  That's not what this is about.
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  As unhappy as I am, I would stay
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  here if that was where I was called
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  to be.
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  But suddenly I felt this calling in its
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  other direction and asking these questions and wrestling
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  with the different tangible factors of it, the
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  finances, the logistics, all of it.
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  And yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I love how you said when you were
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  doing that financial analysis, you realized, oh, it's
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  not comfortable, but it's possible.
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  Yeah.
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  And that sense of calling is rarely comfortable.
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  Exactly.
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  God doesn't usually call us to do the
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  most comfortable things.
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  And so there's some risk in saying yes
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  to something that you feel like is increasingly
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  clear that God's in it, that he's doing
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  it.
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  And yet it still is that kind of
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  taking the leap to say yes to it.
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  How did you reach that point you and
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  your husband, Mike, together of taking a leap?
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  It was scary.
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  There was a couple other things that were
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  happening at the same time, though, as we
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  were getting closer to maybe being like, yes,
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  we should make this decision.
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  But when should it be?
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  Is it like next school year?
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  Is it a year and a half from
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  now?
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  What does that look like?
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  I found out that the doula I had
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  had for my youngest two children was beginning
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  to train doulas.
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  In the back of my head, ever since
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  my 13 year old was born, I had
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  thought like in another life, I would be
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  a midwife or a doula, but then I
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  left it there.
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  It's like, okay, that is not my calling.
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  That is not my life.
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  This is my life.
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  I have an office job.
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  And yeah, we got through this process.
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  And to suddenly hear that she was doing
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  this, it sort of came together like, oh
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  my goodness, this timing is actually, it's so
• 13:14
  gone, right?
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  So there was like, okay, like it wouldn't
• 13:20
  replace my income by any means.
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  And that would not be the point of
• 13:22
  that job, but it would be a little
• 13:24
  extra.
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  And also it would fulfill this whisper of
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  a calling that I've had for years.
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  So that was very cool to kind of
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  go through that.
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  And then besides that, there were just little
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  things.
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  We heard a sermon when we were traveling
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  for spring break this year.
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  And the sermon was deciding between the hard
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  thing and the comfortable thing.
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  And I left that church and we were
• 13:53
  visiting a church plant in Colorado and we
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  left that church saying, oh, okay.
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  That was for us.
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  Yes, exactly.
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  Yes.
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  So just little things like that just kept
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  coming up, meeting people who had similar stories
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  or just hearing the right words or reading
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  the right Bible verse.
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  It just all sort of came together and
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  making that final decision.
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  Yeah.
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  Praise the Lord.
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  Yeah.
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  So for our listeners in this series, we're
• 14:21
  talking about lots of different kinds of disappointments.
• 14:24
  Sometimes somebody feels stuck in a job, maybe
• 14:26
  like you, where it's like a golden handcuff
• 14:27
  situation where they do have privilege, they're doing
• 14:31
  okay financially, but there's just that feeling of
• 14:33
  emptiness.
• 14:34
  Other folks might be facing something much more
• 14:37
  pragmatically dramatic, like injustice in their workplace, discrimination,
• 14:40
  not being able to make ends meet.
• 14:43
  Either way, though, you can feel that sense
• 14:44
  of what do I do next?
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  Like, how do I move forward?
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  So what would you say to folks in
• 14:49
  either situation?
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  How do you discern what God is really
• 14:52
  asking of you versus all the other things
• 14:55
  that you might look at as options?
• 14:56
  Oh, man.
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  That's a really hard question.
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  I would say prayer first and foremost, and
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  be honest about it.
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  Because like for me, I was like, oh,
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  yeah, I'm praying about it.
• 15:09
  And I'm like, but am I really?
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  Am I actually sitting down and talking to
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  God and saying, this is what I'm happy
• 15:13
  about?
• 15:16
  What do you want from me?
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  And what do I want?
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  And does that align with what God wants?
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  Otherwise tapping into people in your faith community,
• 15:29
  whether it's a spiritual director is so valuable,
• 15:33
  or some kind of small group or just
• 15:35
  mentors or spiritual mothers and fathers.
• 15:39
  Just constant prayer with people who can sort
• 15:42
  of be that outside perspective to help.
• 15:46
  For me, and I don't know how much
• 15:48
  this may help other people.
• 15:49
  But again, it was not, it had to
• 15:52
  be more than running away from something.
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  When it suddenly pivoted to like, oh, there's
• 15:57
  an answer here that I can also put
• 16:00
  this in perspective and run towards something else.
• 16:03
  That's when it started to become much clearer.
• 16:08
  Yeah.
• 16:08
  Yeah.
• 16:09
  One thing we've talked about with different guests,
• 16:12
  and just in my own episodes as well,
• 16:14
  is suffering is not abnormal in the Christian
• 16:17
  life.
• 16:18
  And sometimes our workplaces where that suffering shows
• 16:20
  up.
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  So just because something's hard doesn't mean, oh,
• 16:23
  there's a problem here, I should do something
• 16:25
  else.
• 16:25
  And yet we can have the flip side
• 16:27
  of, oh, so the answer, the faithful answer
• 16:29
  is always just to grin and bear it
• 16:30
  just to grit it out.
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  That's not actually wisdom either.
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  You need to have that discernment of what
• 16:35
  is God really saying?
• 16:36
  Is he saying, stay here faithfully, I'll be
• 16:38
  with you in suffering.
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  Or is he saying, I have something different
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  for you.
• 16:42
  And I love how you emphasize the community
• 16:44
  piece that we can't actually come to that
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  answer simply by ourselves.
• 16:48
  We need the help of the church of
• 16:49
  the Christian community to help us be sure
• 16:51
  we've discerned what God is saying and then
• 16:53
  to take the next step.
• 16:54
  So yeah, that's really beautiful.
• 16:57
  Well, I wish we had more time to
• 16:58
  keep talking about everything, but thank you for
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  sharing just a little bit of your story.
• 17:02
  And Clay, would you be willing to just
• 17:03
  pray for anybody who may be questioning these
• 17:05
  things for themselves to close our episodes?
• 17:08
  Absolutely.
• 17:08
  Yes.
• 17:09
  Lord Jesus, I lift up anyone listening to
• 17:13
  this today who is struggling, who does feel
• 17:16
  spiritually unfulfilled or is facing just really challenging
• 17:20
  circumstances in their workplace.
• 17:23
  I pray that you will just surround them
• 17:24
  with community of people to help them discern
• 17:27
  the next steps, to help them hear God's
• 17:31
  word for them and just to surround them
• 17:33
  with your love and support and sense of
• 17:36
  peace as they go into their workday each
• 17:38
  day.
• 17:39
  In your name, Lord.
• 17:41
  Amen.
• 17:45
  Thanks for listening.
• 17:47
  Finding God at Work is a production of
• 17:48
  Mission Central, a ministry based in Aurora, Illinois,
• 17:51
  dedicated to forming Christians for mission in everyday
• 17:54
  life.
• 17:55
  You can subscribe to the podcast wherever you
• 17:57
  listen to this episode to get 10 minutes
• 17:59
  of teaching on faith and work every Tuesday
• 18:00
  and Thursday.
• 18:02
  To get resources to go deeper with each
• 18:04
  podcast series, read our blog, and get info
• 18:06
  about upcoming courses on faith in the workplace,
• 18:09
  go to our website, missioncentral.church.