Latest / The Rave Social Podcast / 2 How to Build A Personal Brand with Cassie Dillard

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2 How to Build A Personal Brand with Cassie Dillard · The Rave Social Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's a huge opportunity for people and I think a lot of people are sleeping on it.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Rave Social Podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Jaden, and today we have our first guest, Cassie.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hi! How's it going, everyone?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're so excited to have Cassie with us today.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: She's amazing.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've worked together for a while.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: She's also a social media manager and she is very, very good at building personal brands.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we're really excited to have her on the podcast today so we can get some knowledge from her and she can tell us about personal brands, what that even means.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, something I hear all the time on Instagram is like you need to build a personal brand.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: So what are your thoughts on that?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, what are my thoughts on that?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, do you have a week?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Is how long is this podcast gonna be?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Is this gonna be three hours?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's go, let's go.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, honestly, so yeah, building a personal brand, a personal brand is really, really simple at its core because a personal brand just means that you're the face of the brand.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: So um even if you are a lot of people think of personal brands as like influencers, and um really almost anything can be a personal brand.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um take like socks, for example.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Say you start a sock brand, um, but you are the face of that brand, in a sense, that is now a personal brand.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: So um I'm trying to think of like a I'm trying to think of a good example of this.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, hairstylists would be another one that like I come across all the time.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um hairstylists don't really think of themselves as having a personal brand, but yeah, you are the face of your brand.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe in like 2012, a hairstylist were just posting pictures of hair, but now you've noticed like hairstylists, it's it's a lot of like involvement in like storytelling and who the hairstylist is and and their methods behind um color and whatever.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, a personal brand just means that you are the face of the brand, and I think the reason why people are always saying that or suggesting that people start a personal brand is that I mean, really, in a nutshell, Instagram and social media are just amplifiers of our experience, and they are portals to connection, and so um, even like I've been having this thought lately about people who are in the corporate world.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think people who are in the corporate world don't really think of themselves as having a personal brand.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, sure, people dabble in LinkedIn, that's something that I've never touched.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not, I don't think it's like it doesn't look fun to me.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, like sure, I feel like people that want to grow and build connections in the corporate world have a LinkedIn, but I it's rare that I see that also cross over into Instagram and TikTok, and I just think what what a huge opportunity for people like that to start building their personal brand because the connections that you build through social media are just insane, and also like when you're looking to make connections out there in the world, and I'm kind of just going down a rabbit hole at this point, and I'll stop after this, but um people that don't know you are that's the first thing that they're going to look at.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, first place they're gonna go is they're gonna look you up on social media, they'll look you up on LinkedIn, they'll Google you, right?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll see what comes up, um, especially when they're looking to hire or they're looking to just learn something about you.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just it's a huge opportunity for people, and I think a lot of people are sleeping on it, and I also think a lot of people are really scared.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like you already have a personal brand.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even whether or not it's on social media, you have a personal brand, like it's who you are with your friends, it's who you are with your family, it's who you are with your coworkers in your business.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you don't have a personal brand on social media, you still have a personal brand in your life, honestly.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so basically, kind of what you're saying is like when you take that personal brand from your life and you put it online, you're letting other people in on it and kind of monetizing it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a thing?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or making it part of your business?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know what you don't know what kinds of opportunities are going to arise from you just putting yourself out there on the internet.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and of course, like monetarily, if that's what you want, then yes.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: And even like back to my example of like people that are working in in corporate, like, are you going to see an increase in opportunities, whether it's like speaking opportunities, people that want to hire you for something, people that want you to consult their business, whatever it is.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like, of course, if that's what you want, then yes.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I think you're brilliant in saying that everybody has a personal brand, whether you mean to or not, because it's true.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I I don't know who is listening to this that follows Gary V, but um Jaden and I talk about him, and I I'm just obsessed with him.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's kind of like he's like a motivational marketing expert, and I just adore him.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: But he says that like your personal brand is basically just your reputation.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody has a reputation, regardless of if you um are conscious of that or not.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, as far as like putting your personal brand on social media, I feel like people are nervous to do that for a couple reasons.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: One, it's vulnerable, two, they're nervous that they're gonna change.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe they are who they are right now, but later maybe you really love yoga right now or something, and that's what you want to post about, and then in two years, like you've moved into like a corporate job or something, and now you want to share about your corporate job.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever, like there can be big transitions.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean for a personal brand?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it scary to start a personal brand because you have to niche or like what?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just tell me a little bit about how you go about that.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think it's totally reasonable to be scared when you are going to start your personal brand.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I get DMs about this all the time.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Just yesterday, this um dancer reached out to me, and she said, like, you know, I used to have my account private, and then I made it public, and I started I I kept posting my dancing videos and whatnot, but she said, like, ever since I went public with my profile, I have just had like so much anxiety around it, and I feel like it's really hard for me to like all of a sudden I feel stuck and like I don't know what to post anymore.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so, yes, like this is super normal.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: I come across this all the time, and then also just speaking to my own personal experience, I I cannot emphasize how horrified and just anxious I was to start posting about my business on social media because I'm a social media manager, so I am a personal brand, and um, yes, I I could run things as like um as more of an agency and I could take my face out of it, that would be possible.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't like suggest that really to anyone, but um I was so scared, and it took me probably a month straight of a business coach um who is also like pretty big on Instagram, has her own personal brand that she totally rocks, and it took me like a month of her telling me like over and over again, like you need to start posting on Instagram and like coaching me through it.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I kept saying, I don't have the time, I don't have the time, I can't, I I I didn't do it today because I ran out of time, and she finally just said to me, The truth is you do have the time, and um you are doing this on purpose.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, shoot.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: It makes sense to be scared because you're sharing yourself, and so it's a lot more personal when somebody doesn't like you, you're like, oh, they don't like me.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not that they don't like my business, it's that they don't like me, um, which it can feel really scary, and also like your numbers are all public, and so if people if that's something you care about or you're insecure about, it's like, yeah, everyone can go see how many views your reels have, or how many likes you get or how many comments you get, and like that can be scary, but like as soon as you started posting, you started getting inquiries, people started to want to work with you, and like that outweighs that fear.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you can break past that fear, the portal that Instagram becomes is insane, it's uncapped, like it's magnificent, really.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, really, it is, and I think um I just had so many aha moments of like, oh, so this is what I have been doing for other people for five years.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I've been doing for somebody else, and I saw it from one end, but I didn't see it from the other end, and I have told this story on another podcast, but I went to an event with one of my clients, and she's a hairstylist, and um, all these girls were coming up to her and saying, like, oh my god, like I follow you on Instagram, but it's so fun meeting you in real life, and I was kind of like, Oh, wow, like I kind of I kind of helped you do that.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: I I think I did that for you.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, she had to show up and be the face of her and like no, I couldn't have promoted her without her being involved, but like I planned and executed that entire thing of like getting her to a place where like she can go to an event and um and people know who she is and people are excited to engage with her.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, like I think it's just it's like you said, like if you can break past that fear, there's just so much opportunity out there that um you can't yet see.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if you're a personal brand and eventually down the road, like say you're a personal brand, you're maybe a hairstylist and you have a salon and you eventually don't want to work 24-7, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't want to be in the work as much anymore.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can still be a personal brand, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because even if you step back, it's not going your business isn't gonna tank.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're just gonna choose a new position within it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do how would you coach someone through that?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what are your thoughts on it?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think this goes back to um a question that you had earlier of like, so your personal brand, which means that you're building a a business essentially and a brand based off of who you currently are, what you're currently interested in.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing that scares people about that is that people feel like um, well, if I get if I get really narrowed in on something and I build this business and this brand around this one particular thing, and then I start to shift or change, uh, then what's going to happen to my brand and what's gonna happen to my business?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because yeah, that's really scary to think that you could put all this time and energy into something, and then um you change as a person and then it no longer works anymore.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, however, my the thing that I would always say to that is that of course you are going to change.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Of course you are going to change.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: So just accept it now because that literally will happen because you are a human being and you're multifaceted, and there are things that are going to interest you at different periods of time.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you look at my Instagram account, I'm always posting about like different eras that I went through, and there was like a yoga era, and I was using my Instagram to throw yoga retreats, and then there was like a hair and makeup artist era.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm like, I cannot, I simply cannot tell you how drastically different all of these eras are.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like I went from being like, oh, I'm a social media manager to like I'm a social media coach.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, I was like a yoga instructor, a hair and makeup artist, uh model.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh my gosh.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean, sorry to interrupt you.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just this is making me think of so many personal brands that have done what you have done too.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, look at Amber Fillerup.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: She literally started as a hairstylist, and now look at her.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she is just like a lifestyle account, she doesn't even post that often, and like she is so successful, her business is so successful, and it's all because like she put herself out there.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the coolest transitions I remember her going through was like I think I don't know if she moved from like Utah to Arizona or or what it was, but there was like a big shift in her life.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and part of it was like her religious affiliation that was kind of changing, and she was she approached it in the most beautiful way, like she because she was a personal brand, she knew that people were gonna wonder, people are gonna ask, people are gonna wanna know about it, and she literally shifted something so fundamentally about herself and kept her personal brand just built just building itself, you know.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like you can there's so many personal brands that are like that.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even like Gary V, he's a personal brand, but you know he has a team behind him.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know he does.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I can't think of the other guy, but he's a big oh, Tony Robbins.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's like barely even part of his own productions now, but he's still the face of his brand.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So these are just examples of like how you can evolve, and like you've done it and you kept so many people with you through all of your right.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And there's also like, I mean, you think of you think of like so many of our clients, probably, um, at least like my clients, where um, like, yes, my clients who are personal brands are still very much the face of their brand.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's almost as if you would have no idea that they're that they're getting all this support.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's not in like a sneaky way.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: I actually would love to like change the the energy and the approach around that of like it being secretive that like people get help and support because that's just silly, it doesn't make any sense.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, like these these brands that I'm helping are very much the face of their brand.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: You um almost wouldn't know that somebody's helping them.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: If you if you actually sit down and think about it though, it doesn't make sense that any of these people would be able to run a full-on business and have a personal life and run their social media, that doesn't make any sense.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: So of course they're receiving a ton of support.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's just that's just how it has to happen.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we don't these these like influencers and personal brands that have come out of like TikTok, obviously there's some from Instagram as well, but like that's their full-time job is creating content.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: The other people that have personal brands have businesses that they've built.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, like they have to run the business and almost be a full-time content creator, which is why they need help, which is why they hire social media managers.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like, how could you?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: How could you have all the balance?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can't, like, you do need help and you can still be the face of your brand.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: How do personal brands, like your clients who are personal brands, how do you suggest they show up on social media?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does showing up mean?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so for my clients who are personal brands, they're receiving a lot of social media support.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: So they're getting a monthly content calendar that literally maps down maps out exactly what is happening with their content for the month and what days and times it's going out, and what are the stories and all of this stuff.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so um how how I recommend um they show up, knowing that they have this sort of like strategy and and whole plan templated out for them, is showing up in their Instagram stories, like every single day, consistently.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, like if you take a break, that's not the end of the world.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be like the first advocate for like if you don't feel like being on Instagram for a day, the the world is not going to break.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, going back to our example of Amber Filler Up, like there are like days where she's not on there and she comes back and it's still there.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, but I do recommend them getting on their stories frequently.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: I recommend them checking their DMs and still being very still being very much involved in their DMs and and the comments on photos and posts because being a personal brand, one thing that I have really tried to offer my clients, and one thing that I'm proud of and that I think we're very good at is being really dialed in on who they are and what their voice sounds like and what their messaging is.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that I mean, like one of the fun compliments that sometimes clients will give me is that people that know them personally, like their spouses, etc., will comment on like, did you write that post?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, no, no, no, that was Cass.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, oh my god, that sounds exactly like you.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's something that I try and do because of course I want the brand to embody the person.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, but that being said, there are just things that um that as social media managers we can't do quite like you do.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: For example, your DMs, there are personal relationships that you have with people that you've built up over a lifetime that we just will never grasp or understand.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yes, I can fully respond to everything, but should I?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, um, because there are these conversations that that that I know are best for my clients to be having and not me, and so um I still very much suggest that they check those DMs, and then also there are business questions that I know that I won't be able to answer um as well as my clients because how do I know that somebody does want to take on, going back to my example of a hairstylist?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: How do I know that someone will want to take on a new client for jet black extensions?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I have no idea.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: So there are just things that are just better for them to be doing, and then also comments on the posts.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: I do my best to respond to all of those, and sometimes they're just these really personal comments that I know somebody really took the time to write out, and um I may not fully understand the relationship that that person has with my client, and so it's best for them to be involved there.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think if you're a personal brand, you can't expect that you can outsource a hundred percent of everything.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's just at the end of the day, like your team is not you.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they can support you.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would say up to like 80%, honestly, but there is that like 20% that you're gonna have to take on yourself.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's not a bummer, it's actually really cool because like you are the one creating those connections, like you're the reason your brand is the way that it is, so it's actually really cool.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't know about you, Cass, if you have clients who are non-personal brands, but I have some clients who are just they're just businesses, they're not a personal brand, and then I also have clients who are personal brands.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: In my experience, the personal brands do better, they are able to generate more revenue a lot easier, their content performs better, um, their communities are tighter.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: What is your experience with that?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: A thousand percent.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just took on a new client a couple months ago, and I am I try not to get too in my head about the analytics, but yeah, um this is this this particular client is not a personal brand, so meaning like they're a sock company or their uh t-shirt brand or whatever.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um I've noticed just like with the analytics and with content performance, it's just so much harder.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and one thing that I have noticed over the years, and one thing that I've actually always leaned into ever since I started, because it's just it's naturally where my brain wants to go, and also it's what performs best is storytelling, yeah, and like using using the brand's story to create content of like you know, I I started here and now I'm here and this is where I'm going, like that kind of stuff, or like I used to think this about my business, but now I think this.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, like I've seen that so often, and that's one thing that I'm working on with this brand that I just took on that I love and adore, but it is a little bit trickier to get the content to perform well for them.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one thing that we're working on right now is like, okay, so how do we Like knowing that they're not a personal brand, how do we still incorporate some kind of like storytelling?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: How do we still um make how how do I help people feel like they are involved in some kind of a community?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: And how do I help them feel like they're connected to this brand?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's easier for people to connect with a person, it's easier for people to connect with a face.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit harder for people to connect with socks.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: It really it just is.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: It just is because we're humans, and like that's why content that starts with a human face first performs better than content of like you know, the landscape or whatever.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just because we're humans and we create a lot of people.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Not to interrupt, I'm sorry, but skims, I mean, like that's I just read like they're a billion-dollar or am I Kate, please don't quote me on this, but I swear I just read that they're a billion-dollar company.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that's amazing to me.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's it would be nowhere near what it is had it not had Kim's face all over it.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, it wouldn't have, and yeah, she already had her, I guess, clout to begin with, but still, like we want to relate to people so bad.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a good example of a more corporate business that has a personal brand is literally Duolingo.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: They have created a personal brand with duo because he's kind of human-like, and obviously it's a human under there, you know, it's just a costume, but they didn't they're not a personal brand, but they've taken their duo mascot and made themselves into a personal brand with the mascot, which is just crazy and so smart, genius marketing, they're absolutely killing it with that.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: The community on TikTok is insane.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there's other brands that have done this too, and it's making me think like even if you're listening to this and you're like, I'm not the face of my brand or whatever, like there's ways you can still do that.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you can make the people at your salon the face of the brand, you know?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can make there's there's elements like you're saying, even storytelling, stuff like that, of a personal brand that you can apply to your business as well.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm my brain is going right, my brain is going crazy now with just so many examples of this.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, even like, oh god, what's that like car insurance that has the like flow?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, progressive.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: They did it, progressive, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's these these businesses have gotten so smart with this, and um even like so.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: I just took on a new client, it's a steakhouse in New York, and like one of the first things that I did was like start to pull out these like storytelling elements, and um I mean they just had their anniversary, so I was able to dig and find pictures of a guest when they were a baby going to this restaurant when they were a teenager and when they were an adult.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, like that's one way of like, okay, I'm gonna like genius.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, this isn't a personal brand, but I'm gonna like try and dig and find these like ways to like put a face to this.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that and like I found old pictures of celebrities that have been, I mean, I don't know if you're into like soccer, but Pele, and I'm probably saying his name wrong.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: He was like the king of soccer, um, Brazilian, I'm pretty sure.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, um, I was able to find a picture of him at the steakhouse in like the 90s, and so like using stuff like that so that people can start associating it um with a face and start to see themselves in the brand.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just giving it humanness.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think any brand that has that humanness is gonna be they're just I'm not saying they're gonna be better for sure, but like it's a lot easier, it's a lot easier to relate with people, it's a lot easier to build a community if you do have that like touch of humanness.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, oh my gosh.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was so much.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Even influencers, find influencers.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you think of like, I mean, going back to hairstylists, I that's just always in my brain because those were like my first few clients were hairstylists, but um habit hair salon.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like most most girlies know about habit hair salon and Arizona.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you're in like Utah, Arizona, then you know about it.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, like Habit Hair Salon has like millions of followers, like they at least have a million, and um I don't really think that the owner of the hair salon is necessarily the face of of that brand.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, people know who she is, but I would say um their influencer community and the way that they used influencers to um give people some kind of a connection to their brand was brilliant, and I think they were one of the first salons that like really did that well, and I feel like that's how they are where they are because of their influencer connections.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, I thought of another question for you.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you're good gonna be great at answering this one, but like as a personal brand, I feel like it can feel sometimes superficial.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are suspicious, they're like, your life can't possibly be that good.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: It can feel superficial when you're creating content because you're really you want to highlight the good things, but what is your take on that?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for one, I think it makes sense that we're not all posting about our bad moments and our bad days.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like in my moment of despair, the last place that I am like just intuitively going, not out of like shame or out of like no, I have a show to put on, no, but like the last place I am intuitively going is my Instagram stories or my my feed, right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like in my moment of despair, I'm not uh I'm not like oh, you know what is gonna make me feel better right now, you know what is gonna really uh get me out of this hole is for me to just like display this on Instagram.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, like that's never happened.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know of anybody that that would happen to.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, it makes sense that like we're not all going around like putting all this stuff out there on the internet.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's honestly a really good perspective that I don't I didn't even think of that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just the reason it can feel like a highlight reel is because like those those low moments are are you want comfort, you don't want social media?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm not trying to put myself out there for like somebody to like potentially come for me on the internet, like I'm having a moment, like let me be.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and just what's your take on like how do how can people show up in vulnerability and also not be like crying on their Instagram stories?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like how can you be real and also not like exploit yourself?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, ask yourself what your energy feels like when you get on social media because that's gonna be different for everybody.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, yesterday I posted a reel and in it there's like three clips of me crying.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't normally take pictures or videos of me crying.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and in that moment, it just felt okay.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't feel weird about it.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't feel like I was exploiting myself, I didn't feel like I was posting those to like um, I don't know, to like hook people or something, you know?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like it felt it felt genuine and then it felt comfortable.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: So just ask yourself what your energy is around what you're doing as you're doing it.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: But um oftentimes, like one of the biggest gifts that you can give your community as you're growing and evolving as a personal brand is to bring them along for the ride.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I would say like after the fact, so like after you say, say you had a day where you just weren't feeling great and you didn't get on Instagram that day.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe the next day, if it feels comfortable to you and you feel like in good energy about it, you get on Instagram and you're like, hey, like didn't post yesterday, wasn't having a good day, uh, but we're back now and we're doing XYZ thing today.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like you need to like get on in the moment and exploit yourself, but if you're feeling good about it later and you want to share, then go for it.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um and also like in terms of educational content, which is so big on social media right now, one thing that you can do is you can educate people on where you were a day ago, or a month ago, or a year ago, or five years ago.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, what were the versions of you in the past, whether that's a minute ago or a day ago, um, what were they struggling with?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one way that you can like gift your community with these little pieces that help them be able to turn to the next page in their book.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good thing.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um it gives them like a little thing that they can look forward to, like, okay, yeah, um, this person is just one step ahead of me, and now I have an idea of what's coming.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you don't need to exploit yourself in the moment, but could you go back at a later point when you feel better about it and share what feels comfortable?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you're 100% right, and just it's such an energy thing.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you're not feeling good, you can often say things you don't mean or haven't quite figured out yet.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just think about when you've been in like a fight with your significant other.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you have that like negative energy, it's so easy to say something you don't mean, be rude, be mean, whatever it is, or just be super sad.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if you give yourself whatever, a couple hours even after that fight, you're feeling a lot better and you can look back and be like, okay, I was having a bad time, but that's not those weren't my true feelings, or whatever.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can talk about it later.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's the same thing on social media.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're saying, it's like, yeah, a year ago I was struggling with this, this, and this.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, I didn't feel comfortable talking about it because I wasn't quite sure about it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I'm now that I'm on page 234, I'm comfortable talking about it because I learned something from it and now I feel like in a better energy.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that so much.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Can I also say one more thing about that?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Back to your initial question, like people can like people are weary of like, oh, like it can't be this good.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you're looking at other people's brands, and like, you know, you feel maybe sometimes like people are putting on a show.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm feeling a little bit spicy about this because people are running a business, okay?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: So personal brands are running a business.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, it is a business, and you it's not it's not somebody's responsibility to give you the full picture.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we shouldn't put that on people.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And like we have to be critical consumers, okay?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean that in a way of like, oh, we're gonna criticize people.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean that in a way of like be smart about about knowing that when you're viewing social media, it's not the full picture, and knowing that in the moment, like knowing that in the moment that you're viewing somebody's beautiful reel of their wedding day, like I know that we hear this all the time, like, oh, you're not seeing the full picture, but no, like really internalize that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you are seeing other people's stuff, and I I will say that this is easier for probably you and I to do because we are pulling the strings for other people, and that's one of the biggest gifts that being a social media manager has given me.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: I will say that my um my oh my gosh, mental health around social media is the best that it's ever been being in this business because I am behind the curtain pulling the strings, I'm behind the curtain directing, telling people, okay, this comes next, this comes next.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, ooh, that didn't go so well back here.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: So now we're gonna flip to this page, now we're gonna do this thing.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I see this all the time because I'm doing it, and so when I see other people's content on the internet, it's so much less likely for me to like jump jump into that headspace of like, oh, like I've these people are putting on a show to me, these people aren't being honest with me.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, of course they're not being fully transparent with me.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's not their job, they're running a business, and so they're asking themselves what they need to be doing in the moment to make their business successful.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you think of larger brands like McDonald's, Target, etc., you would never it it would be crazy for them to be like fully showing you the behind the scenes of all of the chaos that's happening in their business, right?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Or the slow months, or the I don't know, like the new burger that McDonald's tried that was terrible.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like it we wouldn't expect that.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so why are we asking personal brands and why are we asking small businesses um to also give us this 1000% transparency?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and one thing I always tell my clients when I'm bringing them on, like especially my personal brands, is like decide what you do and don't want to share.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I say, like write it out, like just make a decision, decide what you do and don't want to share.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you don't want to share about your kids.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, don't give yourself that, like give yourself that gift of not having to show every part of your life, and then share some parts.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, I love to share about like the music that I listen to, or I like to share about little things like that I do in my day, or like I share about Kelsey Ballerini because I freaking am obsessed with her, but I don't really share as much about my personal relationships.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't share about my family, I don't really share about my partner, and it's not because I don't love them, it's just because I've decided I don't want to share about them as much, you know.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I it's just where I've drawn the line for myself, but I also, yeah, I'm down to share when I've had a bad week, like like you're saying, and just coming on and being like, oh, sorry guys, been a little bit rough lately because I'm a real person and I have emotions, you know, right, and that makes me a person.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that so much.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I okay, that was amazing.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to ask you before we wrap up, what is one piece of advice you wish you could give your younger self?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if I could give myself one piece of advice, I would say to practice neutrality around your business, um, or practice neutrality around your career.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and what I mean by that is that um us girlies, actually, no, I'm not gonna gender, I'm not gonna gender us, okay?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we are human beings, we're emotional, and there are moments and periods of time where we're not gonna feel great about whatever it is that we're doing, and so practicing neutrality around your business or whatever decision that you've made so that you can stay in that decision.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, since I became a social media manager, I have yo-yoed back and forth 900 times about like, do I want this to be my job?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do I want this to be my career?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel good about it right now, I'm feeling anxious about it right now.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, that means that I shouldn't be doing it.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I doing this?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: If I feel anxious, why am I doing this?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or I had a bad week, my clients' analytics are down, I don't think I'm good at this, I don't think I should be doing this.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you can see how chaotic that is, and how like much energy I spent in my younger years just going back and forth and trying to derive meaning around what I'm feeling instead of just making the decision, committing to that decision, knowing that there are going to be moments where I don't feel good about it, knowing that there are going to be moments where I have major doubts about it, and then practicing neutrality around that, so not making something really mean anything about my business or about my decision.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like Jaden and I, before we got on this call, we're talking about how we're doing, and I said, to be honest, not great.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling super anxious today.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I said, you know, I try not to make it mean anything about anything.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: I've made my decision, I'm going to continue to grow my business.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do I know that there are gonna be moments where it doesn't feel great?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do I know that there are gonna be moments where I doubt myself?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but I've made the decision, and so all of these things get to be neutral.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to make anything mean anything, and then I can give myself grace later.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: If I decide I no longer want this decision, I can pivot and I can make a new one.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm not gonna pivot and make a new one based on how I'm currently feeling.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like giving yourself the space to feel about it and not decide, like, oh, I'm gonna quit.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's just feel neutral, and then down the road, if that decision presents itself again, I can decide when I'm in a better mindset.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast with me.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was such a pleasure to have you.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're my favorite.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: I had a blast.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.