Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #093- "Navigating Change" with Eddie Garcia Part 2

Transcript

#093- "Navigating Change" with Eddie Garcia Part 2 · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I did not know that until he graduated from the program and he wanted to meet with me.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: His story is extremely powerful and I am so unbelievably proud of him.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, from where he was to where he's at now.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think people would really grasp and understand.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: On the last episode of part one of the pandemic.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: It was very it was difficult to have those absolutely important conversations with our community.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: You know that program was to try to get people out of a violent life by recognizing what the root causes are.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: And so you know, what we wanted to do is we gave a message and say listen, we don't want any violence in Dallas and we'll use every tool we have to ensure no one hurts our community.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: But if you need help, if you need help with mental health, if you need help with substance abuse, if you need a job, if you need a job training, if you need education, if you need your driver's license because you just got released out of prison, we wanted to have a holistic set, a holistic program that could help those individuals get into a positive life.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I did not know that until he graduated from the program and he wanted to meet with me and, um, when he told me his story, I did not realize that I did Powerful man it it's.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: His story is extremely powerful and I am so unbelievable.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Be proud of him, um, I mean, from where he was to where he's at now, I mean I don't think people would really grasp and understand the magnitude of what he accomplished.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: And again, he gets all the credit.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: But I had no idea.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I really didn't all the credit, um, but I had no idea, I really didn't.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, you know a lot of people, you know drink and a lot of people say, oh, I drink too much and this and that and the other, but they don't understand when, when you're so, when you're in such a dark place where it is affecting everything, um, your health and your relationships and, you know, hiding it from friends and becomes debilitating, it really does.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: And I mean it's such a powerful story that, and again, what's great about his story is that, because of his story, because of his bravery, because of his success and because the department kept their word Um, because I think he graduated from the program in a very short time later, I promoted him.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Um talking about standing by your people, though.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: And well, here's the thing, right Cause I thought about that and I'm like if someone comes at me and goes, how would you promote someone that got out of a program like that, I go, well one, you're an idiot.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: How would you promote someone that got out of a program like that, I go, well one, you're an idiot.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Because if someone were to ask me, I go one, you're an idiot.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Because if you have no idea how many alcoholic police officers are working in this country that never come up for help and you never know who they are, and they get promoted anyway.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so that's what I know.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Do you want a recovering or a functioning?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no one ever.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I had it all locked and loaded.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: If someone were to come up, come after me with that, because we just need to be proactive.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: And because of his story, I believe other officers have trusted the department and have come forward, and he was one of the first and I'm glad he wanted to come forward because that was completely on him, um, but uh, but again it was.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: It's actually what his.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Be honest with you.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I think that program is so successful, not only because Joe and the others, um, that that listened, that spend countless hours listen to the officers and their trauma, but because of his example, um, I think people came forward.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Well and ATO really does a great job.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Ato is a great organization.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: They do a fantastic job supporting, supporting the officers?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, they do.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Um, and they've, they've also, they've, they've stepped up to the plate as well and again, born out of that, you have more.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: You know I haven't talked to Joe about from a funding perspective, but I can imagine, you know I've always said this about the city of Dallas and the Metroplex man there's, people have big hearts that match their bank accounts and people are looking for good reasons to fund different programs.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: And I tell you what what they do for the men and women in law enforcement.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Again, at the end of the day, this is for community, this is for community building Because, as I mentioned earlier, show me a cop who's mentally strong and mentally healthy and I'll show you a happy community member.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: You know it's unfortunate it is.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Dallas has a lot of support from you through ATO et cetera.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: The other 2,800 law enforcement agencies in Texas not so much.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: I mean obviously Irving.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: We have progressive departments Fort Worth, houston and their ATO.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: But boy you get out into some of the small rural departments.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: If that officer comes forward he or she is going to be sent for a fitness for duty because they're going to cut bait at that point.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I know for a fact recruiting in this country for law enforcement is no easy task.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: There is not a city that I know of, that's, I mean a major city.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I mean there were all.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: We all struggle, right, we've all struggled and I can't tell you like on, you know, on first days, with having recruits in the academy and we had, like wives or girlfriends, thank us for the wellness unit.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Um, if you want a recruiting tool, I mean first of all you do things for the right reasons and you can't just have an app for mental health for your officers.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: That's, that's a cop out.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Um, you have to, you have to put, you have to listen.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: We always say this.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: You know, when I was a police chief and we talk about city councils, right, they can say what they, they want positively, but until they vote on the dais for something, anything they said really doesn't mean that much, until they put their money where their mouth is.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: And, generally speaking, I mean again, in Dallas, we were very successful and worked well with our council, but similar to a chief Chiefs talking about how mental wellness is great, okay, what have you done?
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: We all struggle with staffing, right, but what skin have you put in the game.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: And that's important, and so I think you know it'll continue to be important from a recruiting perspective If you're an organization that treats their officers that way.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of us in a lot of organizations that do not, and as these young kids kick the tires on departments, on support and lack of support, that's not a very good recruiting tool.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I think part of to the success and bragging on you here presence was huge pillar of your leadership.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: But I think the other part too is one of the biggest problems that we deal with every day in law enforcement is micromanaging chiefs, dictator, tyrant chiefs and that's one thing everybody I talk to talks about.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Joe talks all the time about yeah, chief told us, hey, do whatever you got to do, take care of these cops.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I was listening to Ruben Ramirez speak recently and he's like yeah, chief Garcia called me and said I need this unit and said y'all go forth and build something, get something and go build it.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Said y'all go forth and build something, get something and go build it.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And he said you pretty much empowered them to go forth and do something.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: And all the way down the line to Joe and everybody I talked to around Dallas is like yeah, chief tells us you know, go handle this, go do that, go do that and trust One of the first people to graduate from the program.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I think the department got to see damn, eddie stood by his freaking word.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: That dude went right back to work.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: He's not getting wrist slapped, he's not, which immediately built legit trust, because there's no trust anywhere else.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: People call us in a crisis.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: They're like well, I'm not using my employment.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: You know my EAP, I'm not doing this.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not telling the chief I'm not doing that.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: And immediately it gave instant credibility that you're going to follow through.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to get screwed if I come forward and then just hearing all your guys talking about being empowered and it's amazing what people will do if you trust them and empower them to go do it.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: And this alley unit's a model all over the country.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: We're offline.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I was telling you I take a call a week of somebody calling saying do you know?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I'm getting in touch with Dallas and get a model of whatever it is they got going on, cause it's incredible, literally from all over the country.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Uh, there's a lot to be said for that and that's that's culture changing.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: We're talking about the old days and you could never come forward.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: It's literally an entire culture change that's going on in law enforcement.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Well, you hit a name that was integral in implementing this and you know, I was fortunate enough to have someone as passionate for this particular topic.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: That was that had that, that that was high ranking, like Ruben Ramirez.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: This wasn't someone that went out to study like, okay, what do I know.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Like, he lived and breathed it, his heart was in it, Um, and so it was an absolute, like it was.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: It was one of those things that it was, uh, it was, it was meant to be um, because you know, that doesn't happen all the time.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: You got to find the right person to take this on and Ruben was amazing and he did exactly that.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: But, you know, as a police chief man, you gotta you have so many things you gotta do.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: There's things you have to be really involved in, um, but you really have to practice staying a mile wide and an inch deep and really you have to trust your people until you can't trust them.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Right, so, listen, I trusted it until you can't trust.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: That's really the way it goes, right?
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Um, trust, but verify and uh, and for the most part, people want to lead.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: That's why they become commanders and sergeants and other things.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, they want to lead.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: That's what makes the job enjoyable, right?
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: You know, when I was a police chief and my boss would ask me how I need X, y and Z, they didn't go into details.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what they wanted.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: So that's what makes it fun to go.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, the boss wants this.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Let me come up with my way to figure this out and get to the final outcome.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: That's what makes this job so much fun.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Um, and so the micromanaging part.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I've really never, never.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I never liked it when I was a cop.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Um, so I try to practice what I preach.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Well, it was cool to watch him One of your exit interviews and they were asking you, you know who may be next?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: And you said, well, I've got several people in house, that would be great.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: And, uh, michael, I go, and Ruben, and there's a lot of people.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I was talking to a chief about six months ago and he thought this was right.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I guess he thought this was a positive thing because, yeah, I got.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I don't remember if he said three or four.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: I have three or four assistant chiefs and you know they're all dumb asses and you know, not one of them, could you know?
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I've got to stay and blah, blah, blah.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: And I finally I told him.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: I said, chief, I don't.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you realize that or not, but that's not an indictment of them, that's actually an indictment of you, cause if you'd actually been doing a good job, what you should be saying is I have three or four people that can take my job today If I'm hit by a bus.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I have three or four outstanding leaders that are ready to step.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: But, for whatever reason, he thought it was amazing to destroy his three or four direct reports and I thought, man, what a broken belief system as a leader.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: And I would suspect he's probably micromanaged.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Everything is why those three or four have never been empowered to do anything, which is exact opposite of what I keep hearing from the Dallas folks.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not quite certain how far someone's going to get calling their, their commanders dumb asses publicly, uh, where they're going to get on that.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: But again, you know, you know with the, you know the, the mantra of you know you you you want your, you want your men and women to go through a wall for you, right?
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: That's bullshit.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: You have to go to a wall for them and it's not the other way around, right, and uh, and it was, it was touching because in my last podcast that I did with Joe like and he was tough to get through.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: It was tough for me to get through.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: But you know, you wonder, as a chief, right, and you're so busy and you're so caught up in the job and what you're doing and and, and you do wonder him, was anyone noticing?
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: You know, was ever anyone noticing not noticing good or bad job, just noticing how we do some things that the community, like the council, appreciated.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Um, that brought trust, that the men and women morale was high were people?
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And you know it, you don't.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: You don't stop and go and wonder and and you know it hit me like at that point that, yeah, they were paying attention, right, and everyone's going to do things differently, right, every chief's going to put their different stamp on the department.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: So that's you know.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: And the next chief's job is to do a better job than the previous chief.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: That's their job.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Their job is to get the department at a better place than the previous chief.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Because if that's not your mentality, then then you're, you're, you're going after the wrong job, and outgoing chiefs can't feel threatened by that.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: That's what the goal is Leave it better than you found, leave it better than you found it.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: And so, as many strides as we did in Dallas, I hope the next chief takes them to even a higher place right, gets morale even higher, gets a community trust even higher, gets council support even higher.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: That's what their job is and that's what they need to do, and so it's an exciting opportunity.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: You know, in the city of Dallas, obviously now my good friend, uh Neil Noakes, who announced his retirement of Fort Worth, um, so, uh, you know.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: So I know both those apartments are going to have new leadership here in the next uh six months to a year, um, and there's a lot of good opportunities for both.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Whoever gets whatever candidates, get those jobs.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: So, speaking of new jobs, you have a new job let's talk about that and you're not going to be the chief this time.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: So you bring experience, you bring successes but you're not sitting in that chair anymore.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's been, uh, it's.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: You know, first of all, when I made the decision that it was time for me to um, to leave the profession, you know, and our line of work is, chiefs is better to leave the party early and leave the party late.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Uh, he can't be power drunk, he can't hold onto these jobs for too long.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: And you know, I left on my terms, right, and so this new position in this job is exciting, I, you know.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I've, you know, I think I've here six weeks, I think, and I'm enjoying every minute of it and enjoying the interactions with the mayor, enjoying the interactions with council, enjoying the interaction with the chief and with the rank and file.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: And again, I got two amazing bosses, you know, the city manager Broadnecks, who's the city manager that hired me in Dallas.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Uh, john fortune, who was a deputy city manager, um, in Dallas, that I worked with and for, uh, they're here now.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: So, um, you know, I feel tremendous support.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Um, the job.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Now, obviously to the point.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: You said I'm not the chief, I'm not the director, but to me, from a perspective of you know, having, you know, police, fire, ems, our chief medical officer, chief medical doctor, labor relations, office of emergency management and then forensics.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Um is obviously seven departments.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: The directors we get together every week.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Um, it's a fantastic team, um, and it's it's enjoyable.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: It's enjoyable, you know, listen, we've always as police chiefs through the years, where we all listen, there's not a police chief in this country that hasn't complained in some way, shape or form, about city government, right.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: And so what do we say as cops when we get um, when we get criticized unfairly?
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Um, we say, hey, come join and see what it's about, right, well, I joined Right.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: And so what's cool about it is I?
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I remember my frustrations as a chief.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I've been, I've been a chief, whether in Texas or here, since 2016, or in California, rather, uh, in Texas in 2016.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And, and so now I'm, I want to be part of the solutions, right, I want to be able to to clear up some frustrations.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I want to be able to block and tackle and give direction and be that conduit between, uh, the rank and file and the city manager.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: The rank and file and city council.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Give my perspective on things from a track record that shows that, listen, we held ourselves accountable.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I am not someone that says we do not make mistakes.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: We absolutely do, but I'll call balls and strikes, and so I want to be an advocate for both the council, the manager and the rank and file.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And then neither none of those are mutually exclusive you can be for all three.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: So you know the most difficult part about the job as I told you earlier, is just trying to figure out what I wear every day, and I think it was cool and it never dawned on me and I heard a bunch of your troops mention it our chief's a uniformed guy and I started paying attention and you showed up in uniform and you looked squared away, but that meant a lot to people to see the chief show up by gosh in a dallas police uniform.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Is that something you've always done or just something you realized I'm gonna?
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna, I'm gonna show up like they, like they look, or oh no, I've always, always done.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I think the only time that I didn't wear a uniform was when I was working narcotics or homicide.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: But I was in uniform pretty much.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: You know, whether I was a three-star in San Jose or the four-star in San Jose, and then obviously in Dallas, I just felt it's important to wear uniform and at the end of the day and I've worked all the special ops units, I've worked those units.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: But generally speaking, the majority of every police department wears patrol Right.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: The majority of every police department wears patrol right and and and.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: So you know, as chiefs, you know, we often say patrol is important, but seldom we do a lot of things to show patrol is important.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Um, wearing a uniform, although it's an optic only, is important um because you do have heard it multiple times and never thought of it, and you represent that.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of things and again, patrol is the backbone of any organization.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: The number one priority of any police department is the answer to 911 call for service, and that's done by our men and women in patrol, the ones that are in uniform, and so, at the very least, the least you could do is represent the majority of your department, while everyone who's a specialized unit there's called specialized units for a reason.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Patrol is the backbone, and to do that I think it's important.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: What do you see on the horizon in Austin?
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: What do you see as your challenges?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: You know, in from a staffing perspective?
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I think is important, you know, you know procedural justice.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Procedural justice has to occur in an organization in order for it to exist outside of an organization.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: And so, obviously, procedural justice as to how we treat our residents, but procedural justice, how our officers are treated, is important as well.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: You know, making sure that relationships with the city council are strong.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, the one thing is, you know, and I'll say this in all fairness uh, we don't like to be judged by past sins, so we can't be hypocritical either to judge other entities by past sins.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Uh, this is a city council that is uh, uh, it's relatively new from a perspective of what's happened in the country in a few years and we have to continue to mend those relationships.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: They speak for their communities, but we have to work with our city council and I've spoken with council members that show support.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: We have to bridge that because, unfortunately, our men and women on Austin Police Department feel that there's a lack of support.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Definitely and I think it's my job particularly, and I'm as honest as can be but I've spoken to council members that this is a different council.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: They are supportive.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Some of them are very supportive.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: We need to make sure that we mend those because our men and women do need to know that they have someone fighting for them when we're right.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I have someone fighting for them when we're right.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I have.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: We have a tremendous leadership with with city manager Broadnecks that supports law enforcement and I can speak to it firsthand because we we've gone through our, our trials and tribulations in Dallas together and never did he not have my back, and so I know that.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: But we need to get, we need to, we need to get staffed up.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: There's no question about it.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: With with PD.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: There's other departments.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Staffing is a concern, you know, response times, things of that nature.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Vehicles are needed.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: You know, as I said, we need to be a data-driven police department, need to be data-driven everywhere really, quite frankly, in all of, in all of public safety and and subsequently, you know our challenges really, um, deny it, I mean the.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: The reality of it is the austin police department specifically.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: They've been demoralized I mean mean I'd be lying, I'd be lying if it wasn't anything else.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean, and we need to bring that up, and we need to bring that up as a city and we're going to work on that, um, and we're I'm going to die trying, um, you know, I I'm not naive to council expectations and council's priorities and I don't begrudge council for that.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I've been doing this job for a really long time and so it's a matter of mending mending, not not holding people accountable for past sins either by giving people an opportunity to chance, cause I have spoken to council members that truly support and want to continue to support, uh, mayor Watson, um spoken to him.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: He's he is very supportive as well.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: You know, with the contract that just passed, uh, for the police department, that was huge.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: That was a big sign that you know things, uh, things are turning around and but.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: But I also get it right.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I also get it's easy for me to say those things, but when you're an officer that's been on APD for years that that does not feel supported, then we have to work that much harder to show them how much support they have.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: And so really, the biggest challenge, at least from the police department's perspective, is raising that morale.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: But you don't raise morale by just telling them hey, let's go, we have to put up and there's things that we have to do internally.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, the chief Davis has been fantastic, um, in my conversations with her, uh, and really learning the department, um, and you know, chief Dave is a cop, um, and the conversations I've had with her right, but she also understands the dynamics and understands, uh, the fact that we need to be better as a profession and the things that we need to do for our community.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: But she's also a cop and I think you know she's been here three months, right, so I think these things take time.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: But the fact I hope that, if any member of the Austin Police Department is listening is the fact that we recognize that we need to do things to raise your morale, that we need to show you that we support you and because I've said this before, there's no violent crime plan, there's nothing that's going to work if morale is not at a better level, and for us to not talk about morale would just be disingenuous and, quite frankly, irresponsible, because we need to raise that and we need to make sure that, again, that there are things that we need to give back to our community.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: We need to show that our community can trust us.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: We need to hold ourselves accountable, there's no question about it.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: But we also need to honor the work that honorable men and women put their lives on the line for the city, for the city of Austin, every single day and, as I mentioned at the start of this, in every single day.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And as I mentioned at the start of this, those two things are not mutually exclusive.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: You can do both, we need to do both and we will do both.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: One of the best soundbites I heard.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: One of your exit interviews we deal with it a lot on our calls was a good leader and you said it a while ago.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: A good leader needs to know when it's time to go, not overstay your welcome, know when to leave the party.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And we watch it across the state with police chiefs and sheriffs and even in the corporate world.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: You watch people politicians overstay the time until they're effective or they've lost the passion or the vision or the following that are willing to follow them.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: And you left basically after winning the Super Bowl.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, you were still at the peak of your game, was that?
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Do you miss the job?
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Do you miss strapping a badge and gun, putting a uniform on every day, or do you appreciate that you went out on top and didn't overstay and ride, ride it down to the bottom?
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Well, again, I know I use these, this term a few times today, but both of those aren't mutually exclusive.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Like I will say, I'm not going to tell you I don't miss it.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Of course I do.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Um, I miss getting back in uniform and and, uh, putting the badge on.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: And when it hit me, when I was thinking about it, I was at a police officer funeral and I remember thinking to myself, man, I'm not going to be part of this anymore and that hurt.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Um, obviously, yes, I'd still be in the audience or what have you.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: But to be part of the family, um, you know, in uniform was going to hurt.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Um, I miss the people, I miss the men and women.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I miss dealing with the issues.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but like, and I tell my boss all the time, I'm like something happens and we deal with it, I'm like, I like dealing, I like dealing with issues like that.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I'm going to miss it.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I'm going to miss the late calls, I'm going to miss that.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Having said that, you know it is better to leave the party early and leave the party late.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you One of the best uh things that happened when I was at national night out when everyone knew that I was leaving.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I think it was last month that I was in Dallas.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Um man, the the amount of people, regardless what neighborhood, went to that were there where they would tell me we're mad at you.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Uh, I mean, I got more.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I watched it on social media.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: It was like you'd filed for divorce against these citizens.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I got.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I'm more mad at you than anyone saying, hey, happy for you that you're retiring, that's okay, uh, but all of that came from a place of love.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's better than thank.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: God, he's freaking.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly Like I mean.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: You know, I tell people this, um this, because there was a lot of angst when I was leaving.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess, to put it nicely, but man, is there a better time to go?
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, are we going to wait till?
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: We wait till there's some crisis that happens and people want you to leave?
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: A la Daryl Gates, I mean an amazing career, one of the greatest police chiefs ever, but look how his career ended after the riots and whatnot.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean for every listen.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I think we've all worked with chiefs that were at the top of their game and then they hung on for a year or two.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: And by the time they left, man, but it was the time to leave.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: I mean I tell people, listen, if that's if, why?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Why did you leave when things are going well?
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Well, when things are going well is a time to leave.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, the chief's life expectancy normally is three to five years, right, and I stayed almost four and so, um, and and for personal reason, I mean I know everyone said I'm going to be a grandfather and I want to take more time to hang out with my kids, and particularly my, when my grandson at the time we didn't know it was gonna be a grandson he's a grandson that'll be here, uh, in april and uh, congrats, thank you very much.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward you know, because here's the thing, right.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: So I always felt guilt leaving the city, always, um, and that's a me thing.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: But even when things weren't going on, I just did not feel good like going somewhere on a weekend, because I know it's busy, even if nothing happens, like your men and women know.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: You're not here, right.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I just I felt so guilty.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: So I went to go visit my son a couple of weeks ago and I remember thinking, man, I feel no guilt, right, um, cause I feel guilty.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I mean I and so and so that that that's refreshing, um, but what's cool about it?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I'm still in the game, right, like, like, I'm still in the game to to help, uh, to help the directors get to where they need to be right?
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: so it's the best of both worlds.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: You may even be in a position now to have even greater influence right because you're higher up the food chain now and over more departments, not just police no, I absolutely agree.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I mean I think at the end of the day, you know, particularly when it comes to policy, budget decisions, things of that nature, that you know whether things go our way or not.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: There's a myriad of decisions that come into whether things, whether you get something or you don't.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: But at least I'm going to feel good that I was there fighting for him right, for fighting for public safety and one of the good dynamics in this role and one of the things that city manager Brodnex really not only is it public safety, but he really wants us to have a hand and a word and an opinion on the broader issues throughout the city.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: So I couldn't pick a better leader to work for in city manager Brodnex I mean, quite frankly, that's one of the reasons I'm here.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: And city manager Broadnecks I mean, quite frankly, I mean that's one of the reasons I'm here.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: And so it's an opportunity to really think about the things that our public safety departments need help with and do the best I can to number one get it if we can, but then also speak truth to the directors as well as to why we can't and, trust me, this is why we can't, and I think that'll be, that'll be enjoyable for me people have asked me about yours and tc's relationship and what that is, and I I think you hear ruben ramirez and you hear joe talking about you empowered them.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's probably a trickle down.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Tc's allowed you, your police department, go freaking, handle it.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: In turn, you've told your people go go handle it.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: And it's, it's amazing, when you empower people, you can change a whole culture in the city of dallas oh, 100, and and that's what you know, and I in the, and that's the culture that tc brings to the city of austin, and it'll trickle.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: It'll trickle down as well, um, because it is, um, there's amazing people that work here, right, that they want an opportunity to do good and they want to have their ideas and things be heard.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, uh, you know you have to.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: You have to stand up for your people when you need to, um, and we'll support our leaders to do that.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: And you know, at the end of the day, we have a job to do, um, and we understand, all of us have been in the game for a while with regards to what's important, right, our men and women are incredibly important.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Our community is important and be empowering people to make those decisions and to go out is something that definitely changes culture.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: So I got a couple wild cards to throw at you.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, here we go With you being 40 years old?
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: What would Eddie Garcia?
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: right now say to 16-year-old Eddie Garcia.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, that's a good one To 16-year-old Eddie Garcia to say you know, keep staying out of trouble, because I was 16 when I wanted to be a cop and so and it went from there.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: But I would tell Eddie Garcia and whether it's 16-year-old Eddie Garcia or 21-year-old Eddie Garcia as a police officer is control what you can control, right.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I think we spend a lot of time worrying about the things we can't control.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Right, we have to control what we can't control, and that alleviates a lot of stress early on, and that's something from whether you're a 21-year-old cop to what have been 33 years for me in law enforcement in February, or whether you've been in the profession for 32 and a half years control what you can control and in, in, work on and work on those things to make yourself, to make you know, to make what you can control better, right, and when you think about it, you know it's like you know the best.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I always bring it back to football, but it's like the best defensive coordinators.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: What did they say to their guys?
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Do your job.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, if you all do your job collectively, we're going to be successful.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Right, stay in your lane.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Stay in your lane, do your job.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: You got a gap.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Stay in a gap.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Your job is not to chase the runner to to into agap, so your job is agap and so think about that.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: If all of us right I don't know it's sounds crazy to say that, but if all of us really just worried about our jobs and did the best we could at our jobs without worrying about someone else's job, but we all truly cared like a good defensive team, think about what we could accomplish personally and professionally exactly 100.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Think about what we could accomplish Personally and professionally Exactly 100%.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Almost 33 years in this business.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: What is Eddie's very, very best day and Eddie's worst day?
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: You know, my best day I'll combine my best days, man, I'll tell you this I smiled and I'll go to right.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, my best days were doing a community meeting, um, uh, and speaking to a broad group of community that I always said, whether it was good or bad, it was a gift because they were there.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And given that meeting in English and then having to run across town and give the exact same community meeting that I had in Spanish, those always made me smile.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Uh, seeing, uh, the great police work, you know, seeing guns taken off the street, violent felons taken off the street, and recognizing that it's not about the arrest necessarily, it's about the lives that were saved because of that arrest.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: It isn't a trophy that someone puts on a wall to me was like, do you realize?
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Because that violent criminal was taken off the street and regardless, again, worry about yourself, not the other systems, but at least for that night no one else got hurt because of the bravery of that police officer.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Those are the best days.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: The worst days is getting the call.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: The worst days are giving the flag away.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: The worst days are giving the flag away.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: The worst day is hugging a mom, a wife, a brother who is devastated because of the loss of a hero.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Those are the worst days.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: You've had a profound impact on the Pinton family, because there's not a moment I've seen that they don't mention their Eddie Garcia.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: They're amazing.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: You don't forget any of them.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I remember that hospital visit, like it was yesterday.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I love that family.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: They are absolutely amazing and we talk about family, but they're I mean, they're really family.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to see them again.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to give them a hug.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Uh, they're just tremendous.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Uh, tremendous people, so strong.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: And you know, everyone grieves in different ways and the way they deal with their grief and the loss of their baby boy, um, is by giving back to the department.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: They're a fixture in the department, a fixture at the station, but again, they're so strong.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I know the love that I have for my kids and I can't even fathom what that feels like, but I know how much I love my kids that I don't know how they get through.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: And they are just so strong and I mean they're, they have each other, which is amazing, um, but yeah, they're beautiful people.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: And again, um, yeah, that that was uh.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Those are the.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Those are the roughest days.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: This day's.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: We wrap up usually with a rapid fire.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Favorite cop movie or line from a cop movie, oh favorite cop movies heat.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a really good.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Good, I said, come on, that's a good I'm aging myself, but yeah, no, that's a great one.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: That's a really good one.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: We don't get that answer that often.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: That's a good one end of what end?
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Of watch was good too, but I gotta go with heat, so I've told both my boys if you ever want to see the, the brotherhood, camaraderie and the jacking around and the most realistic form of it.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: End of watch okay.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: So it's funny you say that because I say the same thing.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Whoever the technical advisor was for that movie absolutely nailed it.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I mean nailed it.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Yep, I've told both my boys you can't recreate the sitting in the squad room busting each other's chops and all of that.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: They killed it.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: They did it.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: They killed it for sure.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Great answer.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Favorite squad car All time.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Ooh, a good one.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Now, this is coming from a guy who started with a Diplomat by the way, dodge Diplomat but I'm going to go.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: They didn't look great but they handled.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go with the Chevy Capri.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty like 94 to 96?
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: No before that.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: A little bit late 80s, not the big whale looking one.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm talking about the whale one oh.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't like the whale With the LTLS Corvette motor in it?
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, oh.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, so Crown Vic's the number one answer on here and everybody tells me I'm insane.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: What's the best squad car Like 94, they looked Orca the Whale, but I thought for me, they handled well and they had some giddy-up.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, no, no, that's not so.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go off, I'll be different and say that one.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: That's my answer, and I get my chops busted for that one.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: You can bust my but last one, when kicking off and it's Eddie at home alone hanging out or with friends.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Drink of choice.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Ooh, good one Depends on how I feel.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I would have to say I would have to give you two answers.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: It's either whiskey or but here's a weird one or Tito's and Diet Dr Pepper.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, that is a weird one.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Everyone says that Whenever I go and if I ask for one, everyone looks at me crazy.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like don't sleep on Diet Dr Pepper, It'll sneak up on you too, but be careful.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Tito's and Diet Dr Pepper are a good whiskey.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Nice Favorite brand of choice.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: On the whiskey Ooh.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I like Whistle.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Pig.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a good one but a very common one.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: That's casual.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: That I really like is Buffalo Trace.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Buffalo Trace is good.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Have you seen the Netflix special about the Buffalo Trace factory?
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I'll look it up when we pop offline.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: So the workers there got to sneaking bottles out and selling it.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Which turned into, which turned into cases, which turned into kegs, which turned into Pappy's kegs.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Of Pappy's true documentary on Netflix, like two part, three part.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I'll shoot, I'll get it to you.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: It's freaking, it's awesome, nice.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure chief.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, back again.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: It's a pleasure being here.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: You know, just for all of us in the profession.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: You know you hear this all the time.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: I would do it all over again.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: And you know you hear oftentimes from people oh, I wouldn't want to be a cop again, or I don't want my kids to be cops, and this, and that you know.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I hear to sit and tell you well, we got to rise the levels of expectation.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Things change, but of all the changes I've seen, I would do it all over again.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: And the message don't lose hope out there, a lot of us support you.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Things are.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: The pendulum is swinging.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Stay true, stay honorable, do your jobs and I can guarantee guarantee you at least from here.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: From my perspective, support is coming, if not already here, but again, and I do it all over again.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: We'd love to have you back six, six, eight months a year out, and let's see what positive changes come I'd love to.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta ask you when, joe, when joe king worked for you, do you have a hard time making him keep his shirt on?
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: We had him on the episode and he didn't want to keep his shirt on and kept asking if he could tell you.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Was that a challenge for you with joe?
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: you know what?
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: no, not the only time no, joe was always I was.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Joe always came out of the gym, though, it seems, whenever we met um, but joe liked.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Joe likes to show off those guns.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: We love some jo.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Joe King man Joe will be listening here and he'll be laughing.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: But Joe loves to show off those guns and you know what?
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: They're show-off-able.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: If I had pipes like that, I'd show them off.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I mean seriously Show them off.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: We're at an event.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: We're at a fundraising event.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Was it Bags for Badges?
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: It was a country theme.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: And I show up, and there's joe in his jeans, boots, cowboy hat and, of course, a tank top I thought you're gonna say it a youth large shirt.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Well, hey, no, he, no, he works it, he works, it does it well, he shows it off.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Well, he's got some pipes.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, he does well, I can't thank you enough for taking time.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I know you're freaking busy.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for being a role model for executive level leadership around the country that's making it okay again to support your cops to fight crime.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: For cops to be able to come forward and get help and say that, hey man, I'm a little bit broken.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: For cops to be able to come forward and get help and say that, hey man, I'm a little bit broken, and them having the trust to get to that they can navigate through that and still have a career on the backside of that.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Can't thank you enough, um, for the friendship and, uh, your your important time to come on here and would love to have you back, like John said, like I said before, I'm honored.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Um said, like I said before, I'm honored to be here with you guys.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I'll do it anytime.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: The message is important we're here.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: We're here for our communities.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: We've got to keep doing that, remembering that Whenever you need me, I'm honored to be here.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Guys, that's going to wrap it up for this episode of Blue Grit Podcast.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Give it a listen, give it a like, share with your uh friends out there.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: We'd love to have your support.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: If you got ideas for a guest, um, shoot it in the comments down below.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: In the meantime, take care, watch out for each one another out there.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Um, we love you, guys.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: God bless each of you and your family.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: God bless texas family.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: God bless Texas, the, the.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: The name Zafira means ''Clean'' in Arabic and means ''Clean'' in Arabic.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: The name Zafira means ''Clean'' in Arabic and means ''Clean'' in Arabic.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Thank you,