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Chief Mark Dubois · Newsradio WGAN

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  Right now, though, I'm very pleased to welcome into the
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  studio Chief Mark Dubois of the Portland Police Department.
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  He's joining us to go over what's happening in public
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  safety around the city of Portland, which is a lot.
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  I mean, you guys are very busy, but you gave me some awesome
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  news though on your way in, which is that, you know, this
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  persistent problem that you guys have had trying to get enough
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  bodies in, right, enough folks to staff a lot of those open
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  positions that have been there for years is really starting to
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  abate itself. It's getting to a much better
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  place today. Yeah, definitely.
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  Thank you for having me this morning.
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  Definitely increasing our staff, which is really good.
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  When I started here a few years ago, we were over 30 vacancies
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  and I think as of today we're at 21.
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  And it's a combination of the recruiting efforts that we've
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  hired that company, Epic Recruiting, which we've had now
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  for a couple years, a recent contract agreement with the city
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  that increased some pay and some different incentives and, and
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  just overall morale of the Police Department.
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  We changed their schedule, you know that we're working with the
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  unions on. So trying to improve all those
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  things and it's definitely showing with the recruitment
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  efforts. So we're working very diligently
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  towards the August Academy right now.
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  And then as soon as that kind of stops around towards the end of
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  June, early July, just we don't have the timing to get more
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  people into the Academy. We just really just start on the
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  next session, which is in January, yeah.
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  Can say anybody like that, that's an investment of time.
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  I mean, they don't just snap your fingers and all of a sudden
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  you're a police officer. You got to go through the
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  training, you got to wait. You know quite a ways to be.
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  It really does take some time and a lot of effort from a lot
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  of people internally. We have a full time or pretty
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  much full time recruiting team. And, and also what one thing
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  that we changed, I think that really makes a big difference is
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  as soon as we identify somebody to hire them, we we bring them
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  on regardless of when the Academy starts.
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  So they kind of internally see. It a little bit and yeah, we
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  train them a bit. Yep.
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  We just get them to know the building, the people typically
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  they'll, they'll work like the front desk.
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  So they'll kind of see what happens.
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  And so it's been very effective too.
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  So it's all working kind of coming.
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  Congratulations. I know the you obviously want to
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  get that 21 down to single digits or 0, which would be
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  nice, but you're obviously making progress to that in that
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  direction. How much, I wonder, you know, if
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  you could maybe touch on this a little bit, how much of the
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  public perception of policing and police maybe shifting a bit
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  has also contributed to that? Because I know that I think you
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  and I have had conversations in the past about, you know, you go
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  back even just five or six years or whatever.
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  There was a lot of feelings about police that were perhaps
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  not so positive and that there was a lot of demonization, a lot
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  of things that were said that made, I would say a lot of
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  people maybe not want to go into the profession, right?
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  Like if I, if I'm thinking about doing it and I know that
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  everybody's going to be yelling at me and, and mad at me and
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  hate, hate me for doing the job and everything.
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  I probably am a little less excited about doing the job.
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  But it feels like that has changed quite a bit over the
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  last few years. And they were kind of back to a,
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  oh, these guys are actually our friends.
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  Like this is something, you know, I want more police, not
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  less police. You know, I don't want to defund
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  them. I want to actually have folks
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  patrolling more. I want I want more of.
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  This definitely I, it's interesting to from my
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  perspective, I think that that negative shift has kind of gone
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  towards the federal authorities, which is a national problem.
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  But locally, you know, we have a lot of support.
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  We had a survey the city did and it was some really good results
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  that we knew was going to happen internally from the Police
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  Department, but it was the results from the survey are all
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  on the city's website I believe, and it was just very positive.
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  So we do have a lot of support internally in the city.
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  You know, one of the things that we struggle with is I think the,
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  the news media is challenging for us and we see, you know, a
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  lot of articles, written articles that, that really lack
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  full context and, and all the facts.
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  So it, it paints this bias picture of the Police Department
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  and, and a lot of it, the perception is, is negative and,
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  and we try to fight that and, you know, counter that, but it's
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  really tough because it's really not a lot of outlets for us to
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  do that with. So, you know, it's, it's
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  challenging because when you don't have all the facts, you
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  know, there's a, there's a perception there that, you know,
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  maybe we did something wrong or it wasn't, it wasn't really what
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  we would we should be doing. And so.
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  Is this showing up in like stories of incidents that that
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  are taking place around the city, like some, somebody's
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  arrested or there's you're being covered in some way by the
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  media, but the the maybe like the background of what's
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  actually happening in that incident is just not there.
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  Absolutely. Yeah.
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  It's it's stories about the Police Department in incidents
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  that were involved with or perceived to be involved with in
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  in I, I the the easiest one to kind of identify as, you know,
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  us interacting with ICE and we just flat out just don't do
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  that. We just don't do immigration
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  enforcement in the constant narrative that that's what we're
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  doing or we're involved with them.
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  You're sort of. Secretly behind the the the
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  scenes you know, contacting and coordinating.
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  With them, correct. And and we just don't, it's just
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  not something that we do. There's no involvement with us
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  with with any of that interaction.
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  So and you. Can't anyway.
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  I mean, that's part of the city's ordinances and and
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  whatnot anyway, so. Absolutely.
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  And and there's really no purpose for us to do that my
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  whole career. I mean like we don't really
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  identify people for immigration status doesn't there's no point
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  in it for us. So, you know, countering that is
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  tough because it does give this perception of people are afraid
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  to contact us if they read those articles and they think that
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  way, you know, they they're at jeopardy of being, you know,
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  turned over to ice or whatever, you know, however they perceive
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  it. And it's just not accurate.
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  And so we're trying to kind of counter that.
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  And, and one of the ways we do that is like community
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  interaction, obviously. And one of the things we have
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  today is partnering with the Public Library.
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  It's a series of coffee with a cop events.
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  So at 10:00 today where we'll be at Portland Public Library and
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  this is the second time and what we do there is really just have
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  coffee just like it sounds like we have you have.
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  Coffee with a cop, Yeah. Which is what I'm doing right
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  now by the way. And we bring, we bring as many
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  officers as we can, Community policing unit, the officers out
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  on patrol, the command staff will go down there, some of the
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  officers from the station, some of the detectives just go in
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  there and just stand around and engage with people and just have
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  honest conversation. There's no agenda, There's no,
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  there's no question answer session.
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  It's just like one-on-one conversations.
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  So. You've done a bunch of these
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  before and there's been good community involvement.
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  People show up. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's the only
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  challenge we have with this is really just selecting a time and
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  a place and it's just tough, right?
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  10:00 on a weekday is might, you know, a lot of people might want
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  to go, but they just don't have the opportunity if they're at
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  work or whatever their situation is.
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  So we try and vary the times and places.
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  The library's been very gracious with us, hosted, we're working
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  with them. They have a great forum out in
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  the front where it's like a foyer, so it's kind of like the
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  entrance to the library. So we just set up coffee there.
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  They get Donuts donated in. Contrary to popular belief, I
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  don't think many of the officers actually eat the Donuts.
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  Trying to break that stereo kind of a.
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  Kind of a cliche. But I'll take it.
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  It is. It is once in a while, yeah.
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  But when you get, when you get that kind of community feedback,
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  is it? Is it, are you getting more like
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  questions about policing in the community or incidents that take
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  place or are you getting more feedback like, you know, let me
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  tell you what I think about what I've seen recently or what I
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  think about police or whatever like that.
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  Is it? Is it one or the other or?
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  A mix. It's yeah, it's all over the
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  place. Have some great conversations
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  with people. Some people just want to meet
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  us. Other people do have some kind
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  of concerns. So I think they feel it's like a
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  safe space to come and engage because we're at the library.
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  It's, it's, it's really just an open dialogue with people and
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  we're trying to some build some trust and humanize the officers.
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  I think any situation that you have, if, you know, once you
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  have, you're up close and you're one-on-one, it, it's a lot
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  different than the perception people have of like the, the
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  stereotype of like this, you know, very hard, you know,
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  uniformed officer who doesn't want to engage and, you know,
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  they have a certain idea. And, and when you can talk to
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  people and just learn, they just, you know, they got a
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  family, they have an off life, What they do when they're off
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  time and in, you know, how we're out there to try and help people
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  and kind of what our routine is like in our day.
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  I think it just gives people a much different perception of the
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  officers. Speaking with Mark Dubois, who
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  is the chief of police at Portland Police Department and
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  is here talking to us a little bit about what's happening in
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  the city. I want to get to some of the
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  issues that we're finding around the city and sort of your
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  reaction to them. But before I do, I also want to
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  ask you about this constable program that you guys have set
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  up, which is very interesting. It's up and running now, I
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  believe. How's it going?
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  It's I think we've gotten a a real lot of feedback that's very
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  positive. So this this was all kind of
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  initiated when we're having some problems in some of the the city
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  parks and not the green space, but the, you know, the hard the
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  monument square, yeah, Congress square, right.
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  So we, we kind of collaborated internally thinking our how can
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  we kind of do something to kind of help.
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  One of the one is the vacancies. We don't have as many community
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  policing officers. So we needed something in
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  between. They behave our health unit,
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  which are all civilians. So like licensed social workers
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  have a role, but this was not appropriate for them at this, at
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  this point. So we kind of brainstormed and
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  came up with urban Ranger program, which is exactly like
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  the Park Rangers, but different, different locations.
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  So we got it up and running. They kind of work out of a
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  community policing office in Monument Square.
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  They're on foot patrol. There's five of them right now.
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  They were at compares. And really what their goal is,
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  is to provide general assistance and information to people that
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  they engage with. They're dealing with a very
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  challenging population, right? Trying to keep this these public
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  spaces welcoming for everybody and that they're helping with
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  services and programs that they're aware of that they can
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  kind of refer people to and they're really into like de
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  escalation and and avoiding conflict so they'll engage with
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  people they're not armed they can't make arrests they're.
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  Not going to arrest people, right you?
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  Know they don't do criminal investigations.
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  But they're present, they're physically present, they're
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  interacting, they're talking, they're trying to facilitate
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  some movement. And yeah.
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  So yeah, correct. And we're trying to present them
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  in a way that they don't appear to be officers, but they also
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  were kind of concerned about their safety.
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  They're dealing with a really difficult population.
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  So they have an exterior vest on that says constable on it.
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  So they're identified so people don't misunderstand who they
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  are. They're not armed, like I said,
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  and they're really on foot. They're going to be on bicycles
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  and just kind of engaging with people.
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  And they just walk the really the arts district.
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  So really Congress St. down to the waterfront and, and it's
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  been very successful. The, the, we have a lot of good
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  feedback. They they're doing a great job.
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  And this is kind of initially it was kind of a pilot program.
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  We're going to see how it goes. I think right now I would extend
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  it for a very long time how successful they've been at this
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  point. You know, you, you bring up
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  Congress St. and some of these challenges that that you guys
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  are facing. You and I were talking off air a
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  little bit about what we've seen in the city over the last couple
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  years or so in terms of crime statistics and whatnot.
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  And you know, you've had what you say is a pretty good story
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  to tell there. I mean, there was no homicides
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  last year, which is obviously a great thing.
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  But this visibility of a lot of the homeless problem, obviously,
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  but also a lot of the petty stuff that you see a lot has
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  certainly given the reputation or the OR the OR the impression
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  in a lot of the public overall that there's a great deal of
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  disorder happening right now. How do you actively combat that,
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  fight it and try to fix it, like asking the police to do this?
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  It's pretty hard, you know, because there's so many
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  different things that converge at once.
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  If you have like somebody who's homeless, right?
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  That's not just a crime issue. That's that's a mental health
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  issue. Often times there's maybe
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  substance abuse problems. There's, you know, you're
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  alluding to that with some of the interactions that these
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  folks are having. But it seems like it's a problem
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  that does not really look like it's getting a lot better.
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  It's kind of been persisting for a while.
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  Is that accurate or is is there progress being made and how can
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  progress continue to be made in in that respect?
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  Do you need partners that are just not showing up right now?
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  I mean like what's what's stuck? Yeah, I, I, I can speak from my
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  experience in Portland and, and a lot of this is going to be
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  anecdotal in the sense I don't have statistics on this kind of
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  stuff. But I, I, I think the, the
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  biggest challenge that we run into here in the city is the
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  legislature passing those homelessness protocols of 2021
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  ish. And, and really what it did was
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  it, it was trying to be compassionate and, and focus
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  services on maybe trying to find housing, mental health services,
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  substance use services, right? And.
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  Things that were perceived as the things that were leading to
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  the homelessness in the first place.
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  Right. Yeah, exactly.
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  And, and what they did is they, they identified 5 crimes, which
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  are these quality of life things that we deal with everyday that
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  make it very challenging for the police.
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  It's it's they, they didn't decriminalize them, but they
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  basically said we don't want to arrest these people unless all
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  these other things were met, like refer to services and you
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  know, all these other aspects that they wanted to do before
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  somebody get died. 1st right? And it was criminal trespass,
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  indecent conduct, which would be say like urinating in public,
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  something like that, possession of drugs, personal possession of
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  drugs, public drinking and disorderly conduct.
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  So those are all common things that we deal with, with this
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  population all day long. And what happens is the officers
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  get on scene and have to make some kind of determination.
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  One, if they know the person, if they've interacted with them
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  multiple times previously, what's the likely outcome if, if
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  we do arrest somebody and you know, what's the impact that is
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  that going to make? Is it, you know, is it going to
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  be more time, say, making an arrest or charging and spending
• 14:28
  three hours in the police station or at the jail and then
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  the person gets released with no bail and then, you know, they're
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  back two hours later? And then the challenge for the
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  DA's offices, we need to have all the stuff documented for
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  them to be successful on their side.
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  And then so there's a whole bunch of things happening, I
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  think with the system. And, and I think the biggest
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  problem that I see is the lack of collaboration with all the
• 14:53
  different systems that we have, right?
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  So we have the police, we have the DA's office, we have the
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  courts, judges, and we have the the jail and all these different
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  systems kind of have the unique silos and they have their, you
• 15:07
  know, their agenda, but they're also their protocols and things
• 15:09
  that they have to follow. And we all kind of have our own
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  thing. And sometimes we all working
• 15:15
  together and, and really have a good outcome and other times
• 15:19
  there's failures along the way. And each one of these different
• 15:22
  groups and it makes it very challenging.
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  And unfortunately for the Police Department is we're the first
• 15:28
  ones to show up and get called. And, you know, we do get a lot
• 15:31
  of criticism about, say somebody using drugs in a park and we
• 15:35
  don't do anything. And that's just not true.
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  Also our community policing unit in, in the downtown area, they
• 15:42
  know everybody by name. I mean, they, it's, they do
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  amazing work and they do a lot of interaction on a personal
• 15:49
  level with these people. Our behavioral health unit does
• 15:52
  amazing work and we have a substance use kind of liaison
• 15:56
  Bill Burns, who's he just does incredible work in trying to get
• 16:01
  people placed. But you know, the the state
• 16:04
  doesn't really have a lot of placement for substance use, for
• 16:07
  treatment, not a lot for mental health treatment.
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  So those are huge failures for us to be able to kind of
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  mitigate so. You're asked to basically get
• 16:16
  them pipelined into that stuff, and then there's not really a
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  place for them to ultimately. Go if you do.
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  Correct. So then they basically stay on
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  the street. Correct.
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  I mean. That's put too fine a point on
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  it, but that's. You know exactly and, and you
• 16:28
  know in the, in the reality is you know, the the proper place
• 16:32
  is not for them to be in jail, right?
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  It's just not it's like that's not going to fix their problem
• 16:36
  in the long term. Solution is not just
• 16:38
  incarcerating somebody for 30 days or 60 days.
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  Sometimes it's a help and it definitely used to be.
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  It's a way to kind of stop the cycle, maybe get to regroup,
• 16:48
  maybe get some treatment while they're there or refer to
• 16:51
  treatment after they get out. But the long term solutions.
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  Permanently correct. I've heard it described as a as
• 16:57
  something that can instigate change.
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  You know, it's like maybe you know, this is my low point, this
• 17:02
  is my come to Jesus moment or something like that.
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  But you you're in jail and then you can actually, you know, now
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  they're in one place, you can deliver some services to them.
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  You can talk to them. You can try to get them
• 17:11
  straightened out in some fashion or get them help in in some way.
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  And also they say to themselves, I'm in jail.
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  No, this is not great. I don't want to be here again.
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  So it may inspire something to happen afterwards.
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  Doesn't always but. No, there's definitely a lot of
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  stories that that was the turning point for people is
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  incarceration to whatever, to whatever degree it was when, you
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  know, they realized while this is not going the way I want my
• 17:36
  life to be, I find it people are so, so consumed with the
• 17:42
  substance use disorder. And if you think about it and,
• 17:45
  and I've explained this, we, we had on the Police Department
• 17:50
  side, I want to say over 500 overdoses last year that we
• 17:52
  responded to. And, and those are situations
• 17:56
  where somebody's really at the point of death, if not already
• 18:00
  beyond that really. And then we give them Narcan and
• 18:05
  123 doses and, and you know, they're revived.
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  And to me, if that doesn't, that reality doesn't kind of hit home
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  and it make you want to change what's going on.
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  There's, you know, a lot more going, you know, in somebody's
• 18:19
  mind that we certainly can't change by making an arrest.
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  Yes, nearly dying would definitely make an impression on
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  me. Yeah.
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  And it really would in, in these these cases is so significant,
• 18:29
  like we need they, they need professional help, right?
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  To, to kind of with the substance use that we're just
• 18:37
  not going to be able to provide on the police side.
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  But that's who we're dealing with.
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  And so to think that maybe someday they're going to wake up
• 18:42
  and, and realize or come to this realization that, you know, they
• 18:45
  need to change their ways. It's, it's rare it it happens,
• 18:48
  you know, but not that often. Not in my experience.
• 18:52
  Well, there's obviously a number of challenges in the city of
• 18:55
  Portland. We are very pleased to be
• 18:56
  talking now to Chief Mark Dubois of the Portland Police
• 18:58
  Department to talk a little bit about some of those.
• 19:00
  Reminder that coffee with a cop is today 10:15 right 10.
• 19:04
  Ten O'clock 10:00. The Library 10:00 at the
• 19:07
  library. So make sure you stop by and ask
• 19:09
  your questions, give your feedback and whatnot, and we
• 19:12
  really appreciate you stopping by today.
• 19:13
  Sadly, we're out of time so I have to stop there.