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Is Sex Better in your 40's? · Made, Not Found

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the question being, uh, was sex better in our 20s than it is in our 40s?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe is sex better in our 40s than it was in our 20s?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: And my answer was immediate.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, for sure now, no doubt.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Just have sex with somebody that felt like a conquest.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was like that was exciting, and it didn't mean anything.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: As a woman, it's something you like have to safeguard and protect against.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's for like a man's pleasure, not for your pleasure, right?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really bad conditioning.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've never had with anyone a completely honest relationship.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: There was always something.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Made Not Found.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: We believe the best lives aren't found.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're built.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: One real conversation at a time.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: How are we starting today?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was thinking about how last year for anniversary, I was like, for whatever reason, I don't actually know what sparked it, but I was like thinking about sex.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking about how maybe just thinking about having sex with the same person for so many years, right?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And how the newness of the relationship is like the only part that you can't recreate in a relationship.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Although actually I don't think that's 100% true, but let's just go with that for now.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And yet I was like, I think that our sex life is better in our 40s than it was in our 20s, which I would have said it was good in our 20s too.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember asking you at dinner, like, what do you think of this?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you were like, Oh, I don't think.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, I know our sex is uh life is better now than when we are in our 20s.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think we should talk about sex.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I remember the question being, uh, was sex better in our 20s than it is in our 40s, or maybe is sex better in our 40s than it was in our 20s?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: And my answer was immediate.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, for sure now, no doubt.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, so obviously a fun, interesting topic.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh but it's interesting to even talk about, right?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because like I think to even get into that subject, you have to like think about where you're coming from, right?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Historically, like how you grew up, and it it frames how you think about sex.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So so for me, going back, like my parents were 18 when I was born, right?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: I know the story.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: My dad tricked my mom and told her you can't get pregnant when you're drunk and they had sex on the trip to New York, and here I come, right?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so um the story growing up for me was always if you're gonna have sex when I was old enough, if you're gonna have sex, wrap it up.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to be a parent in your teens.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that was pretty much the extent of it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember one time my stepmom, I found this out, I think, for my dad later, but my stepmom said something to my dad.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: She was she was pissed about that being the sex talk.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: She was probably right, and she's like, Well, he's gonna grow up as a womanizer if that's all you talk to talk to him about with sex, right?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: But that was my framework.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was like there was no context of when you have sex, when you don't.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was just protect yourself, don't make a baby.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it was kind of expected.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it actually was kind of expected, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's one part of my framework.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think the other is like hang on a second.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: When you say when I was old enough, though, give me a reference point to that.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good point.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I I would say probably like 11 or 12.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh God.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, who knows what old enough means?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we talk about this now with our kids, but not in that way.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm saying we talk about like how we talk about sex to our kids and when.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and we do not talk about it to them in that way, and that's that's a whole nother subject we can go into for sure, but but sticking with the framework, like, and then my mom and my stepdad were divorced, and there was a point we divorced when I was 12, and there was a point when my mom was dating, and and that like really was weird for me.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I you know, of course I'm old enough to know that people have sex when they're dating, and and so now it's my mom, and it's not with my dad, and it's not with my stepdad.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, and so that really like it was really weird.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, like Did your mom ever talk to you about sex?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, and and then I think like the reality was that's what I perpetuated.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, for me, it was a numbers game, it was just have sex with somebody, it felt like a conquest, it was like that was exciting, and it didn't mean anything.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was my context prior to us meeting on what sex was and what it meant and what you worry about.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and I know we've had this conversation, yours was very, very different.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: We've had this conversation, and I still have like a physical reaction to you saying that, but but yes.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um mine was so different.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I had like my first love was in high school, and there was a lot of stuff going on with that situation.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: My parents didn't like him in the first place, they thought he was bad news, whatever.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, my mother took the stance of begging me basically, do not have sex in high school.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: But also But that was it, just not talking about anything else, just don't have sex until you're out of high school.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, kind of, yes.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: There was like she's kind of passive aggressive about all of it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like she would leave out um weird articles like on the news on the like friggin' islands from the newspaper of like, I don't even remember what they were, honestly.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just want to make up like somebody got pregnant in a hot tub because you think you're pregnant in a hot tub, or like some teen getting pregnant, or like like maybe their magazine article.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know where she found the shit.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: But like instead of like having like, oh, like maybe you want to read this and let's have a discussion, like she wasn't quite there.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, I'm gonna leave this out on the table so I know you're gonna read it, and I'm gonna scare the shit out of you.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna hope that that you know means that you will do as I asked, which was very explicit.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: That part was very explicit.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just don't have high sex in high school.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: But there was also these other little messages that were in that were intertwined in there, like um it's not worth it anyway.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm pretty sure she told me that at one point.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um She also told me that if I were to ever get in trouble, like go to my aunt.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do what do get in trouble mean?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like get pregnant?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think to some degree, yes.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, without saying it explicit explicitly.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think I was in high school then also, so just very like mixed messages, but like I felt like first of all, like I was like told it's not even worth it, right?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So some degree then I grew up thinking like, oh, like as a woman, it's something you like have to safeguard and protect against, and like it's for like the man a man's pleasure, not for your pleasure, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really bad conditioning and things to teach a woman, you know, is like I've steadily undone that through the years.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: But just really like mixed weird messaging.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's funny looking back because I'm like, I accomplished her goal.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I graduated high school, a virgin, and then I had sex in like the first month of college with a boyfriend, so it was, you know.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, what was the point of that?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I don't think that ever I never had a conversation.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've talked to our boys more about sex than I definitely ever got growing up.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very limited and very like skewed, and I think no offense, mom and dad, hopefully you're not listening to this anyway because you want no part of this conversation.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: But more damaging than helpful for sure.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I can relate to that.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think the damaging part for me would be this idea that um there's nothing more to it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's a physical act, which I think a lot of guys, I mean, that I've talked to like have that opinion.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's a physical act, it's there's nothing more to it.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: We can have fun and no big deal.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and then I think the more you grow up, uh hopefully, whether you're in a relationship or not, you r I realized at least that it's much more than that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what's one of the important things for me when when we have these conversations with the boys, and I I haven't gotten that far with any of our kids yet.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've had conversations, but not the depth that I want to, which is like there are emotions tied to it, and it might be different emotions for you than it is for the girl, uh, but it's gonna change things.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And don't take it lightly and things like that.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's I mean, it's so interesting anyway, because when you talk about it, I'm like you're sharing like the most intimate parts of yourself.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know that there's much that's more intimate than than sex between two people.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I've never, I've never, as you know, I've never had sex with a stranger.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've never had sex with somebody that I didn't have feelings for.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so your experience with sex and mine are so different that I can't even Uh that's not totally fair.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: You had sex with somebody maybe that you knew, but you weren't really I haven't been in love with everyone, but I have definitely had feelings for everyone.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've never had sex with a stranger.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: You told me about two of the people that you were dating that were kind of you were kind of dating, but it wasn't really a thing, and then it turned in I mean, you had sex.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: But it was never really, at least from what what I took from it, it was never really a thing.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm wrong.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they're all a thing.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would say I was dating all of them.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was definitely no someone who I just met and went home with, and that was my interaction.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that that matters to you and mattered to you at the time?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that I just don't know any different.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I for me it's it always been somewhat of an exp extension of a feeling.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just the physical feeling or the conquests.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was like always that there's always been an emotional component, which is why I like had such a hard time when I first learned that you had cheated on me.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I remember calling one of my friends and I was like, I need you to help me understand how you can have sex with someone with zero emotional attachment, because I literally have never lived that and I just can't wrap my head around it.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I think um I think that it's different for men and women, and I know that's like a cliche comment, but I do think that there's there can be at least a lot less emotional attachment from a male side.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying it's right.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess maybe there's some girls that it can be too.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, I don't know if that's entirely true because a very good friend of mine experienced a time in her life where she was able to have sex with men without an emotional attachment.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: However, I would say she wasn't in the best place in her life.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think she was looking to fulfill something that you know she wasn't really getting out of it.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: But but anyway, I don't know that that's a fair assumption, assumption.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we're coming from two completely different perspectives, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: So when when we meet.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, we meet, and which is a funny story in and of itself, uh I guess worth telling.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like we meet, I we're I'm in a fraternity, you're in a sorority at Ohio State.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Two years younger.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Two years younger.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Freshman year.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, go ahead.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and a guy comes up and tells me there's a hot girl from Youngstown downstairs, or hot girls from Youngstown, because it was you and your friend, and uh, you should come down and meet him.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I come down and meet you guys, and I ask you, is this necklace from your boyfriend?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Which it was.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you tell me yes.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And as I said before, that didn't matter to me.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that didn't deter me, it just helped me understand where I was coming from or where you were coming from.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Probably made it more attractive because then it was more of a conquest.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you can tell the rest.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so we ended up hanging out.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was at the fraternity house, and uh my friend that I was with ended up making out on the couch with somebody uh somebody else, and so it got kind of late, and so I I ended up sleeping in bed with you, fully clothed.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I would not let you kiss me.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't even know why I would ever wear a turtleneck to a fraternity party.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually embarrassed to say it out loud.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had a turtleneck on and black pants, and I slept in those.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember you laid behind me though, and like I felt like you hung me, and the next morning you took me home, and I was kind of like, you know, nice to know you.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I knew you were in trouble for sure.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know you, but I could tell.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so that was that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so I guess my point is the first time we met, it wasn't some random hookup at all.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wouldn't have allowed it, I would have happily, but you would not.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that speaks to our backgrounds, and then I was persistent for a while.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think there was something there, maybe not something that we knew was that strong, but there was a point where I was going into a party, and just for the context, I was a nightclub promoter, I knew everyone, and uh many people in in Columbus um would always hug people, kiss them on the cheek, whatever it may be.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm walking into a party with my girlfriend, you're walking out with your boyfriend, I say hi to you, give you a hug, kiss on the cheek, I shake his hand, say hi.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: We we go our separate ways.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then years later, I come to find out from you that my boyfriend at the time was like, Who the fuck was that?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, What are you talking about?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, he does that to everyone, and he was like adamant that there was something going on between us.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and you didn't know, but the same thing had happened to me that night.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: So the the point in that whole story was there was clearly some like energetic connection from the beginning, which I don't even know, at least for me, I didn't even realize at that time.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you did.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was drawn to you and I knew that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And even like uh, I don't know, some random event at the at my sorority house, like this older girl in the sorority was like pretending to me me and was like, Oh, I just met Chris Hunter.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and and so there was something that there that was just that other people could feel too, and I think I could feel it, but I was really trying to resist it because I felt like I was you were just gonna walk all over me, and I was not allowing that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was trying to keep my distance.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so then we a couple years later, or maybe a year later.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: One year later.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: One year later, um, planning spring breaks, a bunch of people were going down to Cancun.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: You sold us all a trip to Cancun.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: I sold you guys all a trip to Cancun.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I very arrogantly said to you before we boarded the airplane, you'll be flying home with me.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Yeah, right.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then we get down there and we hang out.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I called my boyfriend from a payphone to break up with him so that I would not cheat on him.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so still no sex at this point.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so we come home, I think you or not, I think, I I remember you telling me, like, oh, that was fun.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't talk to you again, like that was fun.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I was baffled by that.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, wait, we're back now and whatever, but uh you clearly had your guard up around about me.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: But we started dating.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Rightfully so.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Rightfully so.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: And we started dating.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole point that I was getting to was I remember the first time that we had sex, it was definitely different.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was like really intense, not not uh intense can sound strange.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Not Jackrabbit intense.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and then and it like there was more there.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, my starting point was this is a physical thing that like there's pleasure in it and whatever, and it was something more that I had never experienced.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of like, what what was that?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't I don't know, was it the same?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just have such limited, you know, I mean, interesting anyway.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've told you I've slept with very few people, like less than one handful.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And to say, I don't know how many people you've slept with because I purposely decided not to ask.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um so I had I don't have the range of comparison that I think that you do.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there was there's always been this like amazing connection, and like I remember our the sex was amazing.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you know, we couldn't get enough of each other, and like all of the things so good.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't I just don't think I can like compare the same way you can compare.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it was definitely different for me.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I think that was um that was something interesting.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then we had a a journey of you know being together and breaking up and being together and breaking up and and whatever.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: The point is we get into where we are now, which is you know, married for 19 years with three kids, and we're having this topic or we're having this discussion about is sex better in our 40s.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know that I would always say, like, I don't know that sex was better in our 30s.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking the same thing.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think that, you know, I think the reality of a marriage and a family is that, you know, having a family takes a toll on your relationship, right?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we had had this conversation when we had very small children or babies, I feel like we probably would not say the same thing that we would say now.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the kids are one part of that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think also the gift of being in my 40s is that I've been able to grow into myself more and more confident and more confident in my body, and more willing to say things out loud.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm and plus, you know, I feel like the fact that we've aired out all of our skeletons and like there's just no secrets.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like we're much more comfortable with each other in so many ways.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess maybe there's layers to that.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I remember I'm curious if this was the if this was a defining factor.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't think of this before, but I remember after I came clean with you about you know my infidelity, there was a stretch of time where it was obviously very tense and we were both working through a lot, or I was supporting as you were working through things and and trying to keep it together.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: But there was there were times where again there was this heavy sexual energy that um that was a bit surprising, honestly, to me.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Surprising to me too.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so tell me about that.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so many things.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean on some fucked up level, there was some part of me that was like like you're mine.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And like if you're not any of those girls, and like like you're mine, and I wanted, and that's what makes like you could be my best friend if we weren't having sex, right?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are my best friend, but but if you take the sexual part out of it, then that's that's what you could just be.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it was almost like me exerting dominance over like you're mine, and I'm going to like fully make sure that you're mine.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it I don't know, it was like such an interesting thing, but I also think that I mean it's a lot of things to get over that period of time, but I think that um We have time.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to be open and honest and vulnerable, you also allowed me into places that you had kept me out for years.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and I knew that you would kept me out for years, even though you would always push against that, right?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was like for years I was kind of like asking for more and asking for more, and you just couldn't, you didn't even I don't even think you knew what I was asking.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think you just thought it was like being needy and annoying, but you would get defensive about it and like we'd fight sometimes about it, but I knew like you had walls, you had walls around yourself in ways that you didn't fully understand, but and I didn't fully understand either, but I felt.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that there was also like this newfound like vulnerability and like openness, and you know, that came out and we shared all of our secrets, and then it was like that then there was this like closeness.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't feeling like that that wall that I kept bumping into.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's a part of it.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think um I did like so much praying during this time because I was just like, I don't know how to get through this on my own.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: God, I'm gonna cry again.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And um and I kept praying, like, like be in our marriage, like if we're supposed to like work through this, like like be in this marriage and like help bring us together.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like there was that too.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I have prayed.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: This sounds fucked up maybe, but it's the truth.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I have prayed throughout our marriage at times to like bring us closer, and like I swear to God, it always results in amazing sex.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that there's like a level there too of just like it's powers beyond us that were like that were just I mean, it was God, it was like God being like okay, and you know, like like I don't know, I don't know, but there was definitely that that aspect of it too.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like I was like so angry with you, I was so heartbreaking, I would cry and then I would wake you up to want to have to have sex with you.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was like such a fucked up time, but like I think also knowing what I know now about energy is that energy has to move.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you have big emotions, like you have to move, those have to move through your body.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have to.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: If they stagnant there, they're super unhealthy.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that it was also another way to like move all of these massive emotions that are.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Feeling that I had no idea what to do with, but like were able to be released like through that and in a in a way that felt loving and good and supported.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was that was the question to me was it just dawned on me like was that the thing that unlocked us to be able to say we're better are having better sex in our 40s than in our 20s?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because I shared that question with a a group that's all guys that that we meet, and um and I told them my answer, and they were all baffled.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Some are married, some aren't.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And they they said, Well, how?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how's it better?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was a little bit taken back because I really hadn't thought about it.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I just knew it was.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: I immediately answered you.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and I said, Um, I don't know.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they said, How do you keep it fresh and exciting?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I uh I don't know, role-playing, which is comical because we've tried that maybe three times.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're pretty bad at it.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we're pretty bad at it look, you know, whatever, but uh, but it's definitely not the thing, maybe it's a thing.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but I I that just dawned on me like maybe this unlock of probably the transparency.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm for sure my wall's coming down.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I also said to people after that, like, I've never had with anyone um a completely honest relationship.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: There was always something.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, as you said, we kind of bared our souls on both sides, and and I think that was so amazing that I I I do think that ha is a factor.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot more.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think so too.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and a lot of it I'll give you credit for.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: I remember you telling me, which I thought was fascinating, I think it was years ago that your mom had said something to the to the tune of if you're not having sex with your husband, someone else is.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was in college, I think, at the time, or in my twenties.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I just considering the context you started with, I thought that was really, really interesting.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you've done a really good job of making sure we're sexually active.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Look, look, I mean, I can get bogged down with work or life or travel or whatever, and it's never that I'm not attracted or don't want to have sex, but I give you a lot of credit that you have made it a priority to make sure that we have sex.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you said something earlier about like it was God, and I think that's a really weird taboo thing a lot of times, yeah.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: To put them in the same discussion.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: But the reality is, and I've been reading verses of the Bible, like that is actually encouraged.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like what the Bible says is when you're married, you should have it doesn't say explicitly sex, but you should give your bodies to your husband or wife as much as possible because that closeness keeps the devil out.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I th I think that's interesting context because for me, hearing that, maybe without knowing that, I would have I would have been weirded out.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine a lot of people will have a weird reaction to that, and which is totally fine.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: But but if you think about it, it shouldn't be.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like God made man and woman to fit together, you know.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was we are divine creations, and that's how we are meant to come together.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And marriage is, you know, like this beautiful union that is celebrated in front of God, and you know, you're not always in a church, but whatever, it's the same things.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So to think that sex is dirty, which I mean, I think that we are often taught, like I I had very negative ways of thinking about sex, sex is dirty and sex is whatever, is really sad because in a marriage, like it should never be, it should never feel that way.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's first of all about how we reproduce and make these amazing, beautiful children and beings that we have.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, it's what makes a marriage, you know, a marriage instead of a friendship.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's it's a human, it's humanness, right?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like to to make it wrong is so unfortunate and we're doing such a disservice to everyone because then we're all just hiding behind things that don't necessarily don't then we don't need to hide behind.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree, obviously, but I I think we've we've had some pretty interesting and candid conversations with friends and it's and who are married, and it's a bit shocking to them that we talk about it, but uh it seems like maybe even to each other, but definitely with sex, yeah.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about sex, um, to each other almost even, but definitely with anybody else.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not that we're I mean, I don't find we're ever like talking to anybody in a weird way.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're just sharing if it comes up in an appropriate setting, we're talking about our own our own marriage.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I found in this one particular conversation, I think you you know which one I'm talking about, like I found it fascinating to watch the wife and husband both have these different reactions, right?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe you can share that that conversation.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we were I mean, I I I don't know how we started talking about sex, but we were talking about having orgasms and about um how she does not always have orgasms and it bothers the husband.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was just talking about things, you know, that we've tried that have worked.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like um like, do I start with a fun one?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like testosterone, we'll start with the boring one.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so how you know I'm in my 40s and I know like testosterone naturally declines in women, and so I get my blood work done very regularly, and I I know that it was declining, and so I had a conversation with our naturopath, and I have a testosterone cream that's like a stick that I get to use as I feel intuitively, like if I'll be like, oh, like my libido sucks this week, then I use it.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, anyway, and it's like became a joke.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was like, make sure you take your testosterone to vacation.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, 100%, you know?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was just smeared all over Chris and myself.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but um, which is something that she hadn't experimented with.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I would imagine I'd be curious, have any of your women friends, because you're you're open and candid about this stuff, have any of them thought about that or heard about that, or or do they do that?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes, I know others that have.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have a friend actually who like was like it wasn't a a cream like mine, which I really appreciate because I can use it like a like I said intuitively.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And hers was a different, I don't know if it was a shot, but she ended up way too much testosterone, which creates all sorts of problems.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that women also hear these stories and get a little bit scared of them.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, it's been amazing.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we started talking about a vibrator, which is so funny anyway, because I feel like you can't even talk about a vibrator vibrator without going fully there.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like we were 20 something, we were in college, and I don't know how this happened.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: We hadn't been dating that long, I don't think, maybe a year.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I would guess.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you one night we go on a date, and somehow we end up like a sex toy stuff sh shop, and I had never been in one, and and honestly, like talk about like ungodly.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I definitely was like taught that like all of this stuff is so ungodly.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: But for whatever reason, I don't even remember feeling that weird with you about it.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like the first time I had a sex toy, which was like a really long time ago now.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've had I have like a graveyard of them now because I can't risk charging them in front of my kids.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that I had to buy new ones.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: But but back to that that time I remembered, and and um we were talking about it not long ago, and I said, I said, Oh, I had been in there and you gave me this look, and it was because I was throwing parties and we would we would work with businesses to do customer appreciation parties, and so I knew of the place.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had I had been in there before, but I also don't remember exactly how I felt comfortable enough for to just take you there, but I don't remember it being like that awkward for us.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember being awkward either.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but I gave you a look because I had asked you if you had ever taken another girl to the sex toy shop, and you said no.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so then when you said you'd been there before, you know, I'm like, like, what the hell were you doing?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so that's why.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like I would have been angry if you brought your other girl from there, but no, I I I was joking about the look.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I knew exactly what it meant, but uh, but I just I hadn't remembered that story.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so talking about it made me made me think of the context.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, uh anyway, so you you talk about a vibrator, and and I remember like the husband's ears perking up and the wife kind of getting a little shy.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: A little, yeah, maybe a little and there's like but but it opened up a really interesting conversation about like well, actually, I I told you a story about how in college I came down here to Miami for New Year's, was with friends, and one of our friends lived here, and so we went to his, he had graduated already, and we went to his condo, and uh we slept there, and I think in the morning I woke up and for some reason we walked in his room and there was a vibrator on the nightstand, and I said to our friend, our other friend, like, why would he have that in here?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, I don't know, his girlfriend probably has it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just so foreign to me because for me at that time it might have felt like w what isn't that what he's there for?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why why would this be here?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: And almost like threatening.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think men sometimes would think that.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like replacing you.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's it's the exact opposite.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, first of all, 90 85% of the time I use my vibrator, it's with you.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So except for when I decide to like do an orgasm challenge or something, and then I even come back to that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I don't want to lie.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, generally speaking, like 85% of the time it's with you, right?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that it's just a really great I mean, women need more foreplay than men do, period.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so if without proper foreplay, I could be very disappointed in a very quick session.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just w I can't get there.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just a nice tool, and it also adds a different element, which I think this I think a big part of why our sex life is the way it is one of the many factors maybe, is that although we're the same people, there's often new elements.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's another element that you know creates a different, I don't know, something else fun and exciting.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't have to be there can be newness in a different way.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um a couple things just went through my mind and I'm trying to think of what is what is the next one.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was gonna say we could talk about other things that create newness, because I think but if you had another Well, I you made a comment, and so I as a male felt the need to, you said, well, I could be very disappointed.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that's an interesting thing, right?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I um I don't for me, I don't understand how men or or anyone, but how men specifically, because it's easier for us, are sexually excited when their partner's not excited.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, it's really important that you're really excited for me to then be excited to have sex.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: So in this context of a vibrator, that gets you really excited.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: So then you're really excited, so then I'm really excited.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you made another comment about how you could be disappointed, and I remember uh back up for my 40th birthday, we had a party down in Tulum, and we brought uh that uh BB, she was a sex specialist or something.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't remember what her title was, but there were what 20 of us and something like that.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she did this talk, and it was like it was kind of like what what you're talking about, like liberating yourself sexually, and like what that means for a man and what that means for a woman.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're having conversations after with the group, and I had mentioned, I think I heard an influencer talk about withholding, which was you know, the concept was as we get older, men should ejaculate less.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe I can't remember there's a formula to it, and women should should have orgasms as much as possible.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like the exact opposite.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so the solution was well, have sex, but don't ejaculate.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Which sounds very like simple, but is not obviously simple.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And people are like mind-blown.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: When you tell God, we've had this conversation with so many men, and they're like, You do what?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you did that for how like how long?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And how?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's fascinating to people, right?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and look, I mean, the reality is there was a stretch where I was good at that.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I was also trying to see the impact of like keeping the testosterone and the energy in, and how that affects your productivity the next day and even your energy levels and things like that.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: But it also is like, I mean, you walk past me the next day in the kitchen and rub rub me the wrong way, and I'm I'm all over, you know.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or the right way, depending on the right.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or the right way, yeah.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I I think that was an interesting like conversation.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I I felt the need as a man to like counterbalance that you may be disappointed to like there may be That's fair.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, disappointed really is not the right word.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you don't always get there.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I say I don't always get there.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the only time I would ever feel disappointed is when I don't feel like this, is if like you took care of your needs and with disregard to mine, which you don't do, right?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's just I don't get there because of my own stuff.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: I got stuff in my head or I don't know, whatever it is, where I'm at in my cycle.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's just things that happen.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so so it's not that really, and it because we don't have that relationship where you would just have sex with me to to come and then roll over and fall asleep and I'm left by myself in my vibrator.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I never feel that way.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that was not fair.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you talked to me.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's fine.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just it's probably my ego feeling the need to correct that.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um But I I think um you where was I going with that?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking about that conversation.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking about vibrators, but maybe not.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, we were talking about that conversation, and there was another point that came up for me that I'll have to remember later.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, I can't believe I lost it.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that um you know, you brought up role-playing.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we talked about vibrators and role-playing so far.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that sometimes it's like not even I don't even know how to define that, but sometimes like a vacation is enough, right?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And like like we get to take off our mom and dad hat and like go on vacation and just be us again.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's like creates new and exciting sex in a whole different other ways, right?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes, you know, maybe it's alcohol or other substances they that make it different.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I might be reading a book.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I read these stupid books sometimes, and I'm like, I was like reading this dumb fantasy book like two summers ago, and I'm like dragons.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like sexing you with our kids next to us, like, can we please put them to bed?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm dying here.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, how many of these books are there?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: Let's buy them all for you.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I was going, you were talking about substances, and like you you mentioned testosterone for you.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and the reason I was like interested or fascinated by that is because I I feel like you rarely hear about a woman, or at least I rarely hear about a woman recognizing that there may be some just things that happen over time.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Your hormone, you know hormones change.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hormones change, and you could use this the this cream that can help that, right?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: But it's very common when you talk to men or talk about men.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if if men talk about it, but like ED medications and things like that.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we were talking about earlier, and you you had a preconceived notion about that.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I used to sell pharmaceuticals and uh as a I was a rep in my 20s.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I don't know why this conversation, you know some conversations just like stick with you, that's like yesterday, but there was this one doctor, and actually, funny enough, he was like a good-looking doctor, he was like known as like the good-looking doctor.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in his office one day, and he's I don't know why he starts talking about it, but he was basically talking about, he's like, Oh, you know, I just pass out Viagra all day to all these men's because to all these guys because they can't get it up anymore because their wives are fat.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so in my head, I think when we first were, I don't know, it was Viagra or whatever it was, talking about it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh shit, like I'm not fat, but like you're not attracted to me anymore.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what happened?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it me?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and so you, I mean, yes, you can talk about that part.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I think one, it was um the the brand, but it's it's a different type that's like supposed to be longer lasting, and there was actually some times that you were used it as well.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Say I took it too, yeah.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: I got over this after we had a conversation about it.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was like it's about blood flow.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, but my point was, and what I thought was fascinating is we were talking about testosterone for you, but you had this kind of this negative connotation of like me taking something.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I found this new thing called um what's it called?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a buddy runs the company, it's called Rougiette Ready, and I took it and it was supposed to not only help with like blood flow, but also with like desire, creating more desire.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and it was amazing.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think you would agree.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And but it felt like your perception before this was, well, you need that to want to have sex with me.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I when I mentioned it to you about, well, what about testosterone?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Should I take that as you need this to want to have sex with me?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's it goes back to the idea of like clearing the air.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like there no.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: The answer is no for either, but if could it help?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: Could it make it better?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if if so, then it's interesting for both of us, right?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: I had a person agree.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking that when you were talking, I was like, really, like there's a there's a fundamental need to feel wanted.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are way more interested in sex if I if you feel really wanted by me, if I'm really into it, right?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And like I am the same.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want to feel like you think that I'm sexy and hot and whatever, and like there, there's just a need there.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really that's the underlying part of it.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about any of the other stuff, and it's but it's probably triggers, like whether it's a vibrator, maybe triggers a man because he feels like he's not needed or wanted, and you know, or or the pills, whatever.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a found on the foundation, that's really the issue, is that we just want to feel wanted.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's exactly right.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it it goes to something else that we talked about, which is like there would be times where I might be, you know, excited for the the night, the next night or the coming night or whatever, and I would not say anything or give you any clue of that, and then I'd be waiting, and then I'd be disappointed.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I put on like my sweatpants and like crawl in bed with a hoodie on, and you're like mad at me, and I'm like, I don't even know what I did.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exact exactly.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then we had this conversation, and you said, um, hey, if you're if you're thinking about sex that night, or if you're kind of wound up, like tell me.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and I thought the reason was really interesting.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I told I don't I don't know if I'm gonna say the same thing that I told you then, but I think that um, first of all, like me being able to think about it also makes me excited.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I used the word marinate, which no one probably wants to hear.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: But the longer you're able to think about it, and then you know, like you fantasize, and that becomes like a whole nother thing.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then and so it yeah, it's way more fun.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I really think that there's like energetically, like words have so much power.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like like when you're able to speak the things that sound so naughty in your head and you're able to say them out loud, like it's just hot.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: It it just is.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's taken like this long to be comfortable to say the things that come to your head that you feel like you shouldn't say out loud, but really the your partner probably wants to hear.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting unlock, is like the person probably wants to hear this or may even be interested in this, but we will like as people will hold back because we're worried about what, I guess, rejection, maybe?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like or you just feel shy.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: It just feels like embarrassing for some reason.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've had the conversations, we've had so many conversations about all sorts sorts of you know, everything.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I keep hitting this plant.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that like sometimes there's still a level of like, but we can out that now.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's still a little bit of like, oh, I might feel slightly embarrassed, and it's like, God almighty, we've been together forever, you know.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe that's just normal, or maybe it's just because how we were raised and it was not talked about, and so it's just unlearning all of those things and like unlearning that you know it's not dirty and it's not all the things that we're we're taught to believe.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: But but to get past that feels really good and exciting, and it's like opens up a whole new new exciting things.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like new terrain, then, you know, it's like role-playing, it's like just something new to try that also is like exciting.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think another another aspect of it was.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Was for me, I hated the idea of like scheduling or even like or even pre-talking about oh, we'll have sex.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because it felt like it should be spontaneous and totally like in the moment.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember you bringing it up about like, well, we're gonna go, we're gonna go to dinner on a date night, and then we're gonna go home, and I'm gonna feel bloated, and I'm gonna feel tired, and like maybe we should be having sex before dinner, or maybe we should plan, you know, plan to have sex during the day or something.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And at first I was like, no, that's old and boring.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I think in my mind, when it wasn't built up to be such a big thing all the time, it didn't have to be this one way, and like it was amazing.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was an amazing unlocking.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I get it, right?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like there's like this movie view of like, you know, you're out together and you just automatically are making out and you want to tear each other's clothes off in the elevator, and like that's amazing, and like, yes, you know, we'd be like, yes, all day to that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: But then there's like the real life reality when you have kids and they're always home, or like, you know, you always have someone in your house, and like there's just this the reality of where people are coming into your room at night, our kids, or whatever, where it was actually at that sex talk in Tulum that that lady Bibi was like talked about scheduling it, and so it was like we called it sensual Sundays for for years, and and then you know, you gave your kids melatonin and sorry, that's true.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there can be it's it's all about perception, right?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: It can be like, oh, that's so boring you have to put on your calendar because you're gonna forget, or it's like you have all weekend to think about it and to plan for it and to like get creative.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you want to role play?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to, you know, do you want to do something else?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want lingerie?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do we want to do?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can actually create a uh, you know, momentum around it by conversations and by other little deposits, then it's way more exciting.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 46:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: We cannot end this conversation without talking about we talked about me working on withholding or doing that um at times.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like we have to talk about, because I find it so fascinating, your the challenge that you took on.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I did touch on this, huh?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I will start with a disclaimer that Claude thinks this is complete bullshit.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Claude the AI platform.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: The AI platform.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I recently looked it up, but years ago, I don't know how many years ago, I think we are living in California, so five plus years ago, I had read somewhere, I think in a magazine or something, about this like orgasm challenge for women, saying women should orgasm as much as we can, and like it leads to like stress relief and happiness and all these amazing things.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's no downside to a woman having an orgasm.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was a challenge to have an orgasm seven days in a row.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, let's try it out, right?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it was super interesting because some nights I would start and you would get involved, and but not every single night, I think one or two nights you're like, I've had enough, I'm tired.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I made it to like five or six days, and then like somebody was sleeping on our floor, and I was like, okay, this isn't gonna work.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: But even if Claude is right and there's no scientific backing to it, it's still like there's no downside to it, it's still exciting, it's still something to look forward to.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's still, I don't know, it's still good.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I thought it was really impressive to see that you could like fully embody in yourself and be confident and comfortable with yourself because I don't know that I could do that same have that same challenge with you laying next to me and not feel strange about it.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's no reason to.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: I actually thought it was great, but but that's my own self-consciousness.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I feel like I've watched you tell women that story when we're again in these, it's not like we always go to dinner and talk about sex, but but when it does come up, um I feel like it's so fascinating to people.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think um I think, yeah, of course, like when you try anything new, there's some level of discomfort to a certain degree.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think the first time I was kind of like, I don't know, like, should I like hide under the covers?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, well, no, like I have orgasms with you all the time.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: You you pretty sure you know all my orgasm faces and my noises, like this is not new.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that you know, after maybe the first night, I was like, my comfort level was very comfortable.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's also the gift of being in your forties too.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's there's so many layers to it, and there's so many so many things, but I think you know, just being open-minded and being comfortable with yourself are like the sexiest places to start.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: So the question that started this whole conversation is is sex better in your 40s than it was in your 20s?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: So as always, this isn't the answer or the end, it's just the beginning.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: So sit with the question.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or breathe through it.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's not gonna work.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to work.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Either way, go have the conversation.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: A good life is not found.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's made.