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The Late Debate | 23 December · The Late Debate

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Gentlemen, Welcome to the Late Debate, and good evening. Welcome
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: to the Late Debate. I'm kel Richards. This is the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: program at a slightly earlier time because it is summer.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Really nice to have your company
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: with me. Tonight on the program, the indomitable Leslie Brown,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Leslie good even let's say Roberts.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: What Roberts.
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  Speaker 1: That's off to a good start.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I'm Leslie Brown.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: For the last time, the inscrutable Joe Hildebrand. Tonight on
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the program, we go to ask, has the Prime Minister
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Anthony Albanize he handled Australia's terrorism crisis well or handled
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: it badly? Also tonight, the Chris Min's government is bringing
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: new legislation before the Parliament to control protests on our streets.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: And will the green and snowy fields of Greenland one
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: day be flying the American Stars and Stripes flag. It
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: could happen. Who knows. But firstly, tonight a study done
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: by Yugub. An opinion poll done by Yugub exclusively for
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Sky News has revealed that sixty two percent of voters
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: think that Anthony Albaneze he has handled Islamic extremism badly.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: And when it comes to anti Semitism, fifty eight percent
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: think he has handled the problem badly. In fact, almost
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: half of even labor voters say that they're not doing well.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: The Albanizi government is not doing well with the problems
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: suddenly confronting Australia. Now, perhaps there's a feeling that, as
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: you can see from those numbers, he's the feeling is
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: he's not handling it well. Because he's not handling it
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: very much. Not a lot has happened. There's a dramatic
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: contrast a lot of Australians could see between Chris Min's
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and Anthony Albanizi. And the question that is occurring to
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: some people is if you're doing this now, why didn't
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: you do this two years ago? The figures are not
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: good for the Albernizi government, are they.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Luise ww you make a great point. I think cal
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: that why they act two years ago. And we've talked
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: about how slow the Albanesi government has been to act
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: on anti Semitism. But what's interesting I think also about
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: this is thirty nine percent of their own voters have
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: turned against them on this. They also see it as
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: a critical issue. Australians don't feel protected if they don't
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: feel the federal government has acted properly on anti semitism
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: and extremism, arguably the two biggest issues facing our country.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: We've talked at length about the three of China and
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: what's something with Trump, but really these are the things
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: that drive to the core of every home in Australia
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: and people aren't feeling safe. So it's a devastating pole
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: for them, It really is.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I mean it's hard to know though, how any other
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: result could have been achieved. I mean, if you ask
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: someone in the wake of the worst anti Semitic attack
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: by radical Islamists in Australian history, how well do you
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: think the government is handling anti Semitism and radical Islam,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Who's I mean you almost have to read brain damage
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: to say, oh, I think they're doing a great job.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I mean you mentioned China. Would be like doing a
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: poll after Chinese invaded US and say China invaded US
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: and saying how well do you think the Australian government's
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: handling its relationship with China? Yes, so I think it is.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: It is a massive blow. It'll be interesting to see.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to or be curious to see
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: what the first news poll of the new year says
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: and whether or not it's dramatically hurt the government standing overall.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: So I think people can say, look, you've done terrible
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: on this, but is this going to tar Albanese is
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: standing across all issues among all voters. I think that
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: will be the really telling theme because clearly anti Semitism
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: has been a bit of a blind spot and you
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: ask why hasn't done it before? Well, I think there
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: were a lot of people, not him himself necessarily, but
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people on the left, well,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: on the left of politics, generally the extreme crazy left
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: like the Greens, who are just absolutely loco on this
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: issue and completely disconnected from reality. But also, it has
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: to be said, people in the hard left of the
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: left of the Labor Party, and there's a few of them,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: you know, we saw the disgraceful scenes at the Victorian
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Labor Party state conference and there was a new South
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  Speaker 2: Wales MP who had to be putting his box on
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  Speaker 2: this as well. But I think that there was a
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: sort of this idea that anti Semitism wasn't really real,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: or if it was real, it wasn't really serious. Or
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: if it was serious, it was nothing compared to the
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: genocide and apodeid that Israel was doing. So it was
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: okay to be a bit anti Semitic because you know,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Israel's so evil man. So now we see that the
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: real impact of that, the deadly impact of ignoring that,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: and the deadly impact of those sentiments, it can't be
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: denied anymore.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Well, Leslie, did that weigh with Anthony Albernesi? I mean,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: every time he talked about anti semitism of the master
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: of the last two years, he equated it with Islamophobia,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: and we just haven't seen those kinds of at texts
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: that you could label islamophobic. We see anti semitism, So
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: did he not see it?
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  Speaker 3: I don't know. In my view, he's actually very poorly
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: on this and I think a lot of Jewish Australians
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: would hold that view as well. He also sort of
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: swept in the sort of neo Nazi element, the far
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: right element. I mean, they're a problem, but it doesn't
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: compare to anti semitism. Or now we've seen the Islamic
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: ideology as well, and how that's influenced society and the
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: deadly literally deadly effect it's had on Bondai and you know,
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: our whole psyche has been ruptured by this, and we
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: don't feel our national leader, our PM has actually been
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: across it and has our best interests at heart and
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: has really fought hard for Australia.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: The Yugo pole is interesting. I conducted my own private
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: pole of one taxi driver.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Which taxi drivers always know.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: They always do, and he said, mate, mate, he's just
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: trying to hose it all down until we get to
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: go to Christmas on the holidays, and then he hopes
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: it will all go away and we'll just all forget
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: about it and get back to normal.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Taxi driver should be a media advisor.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I can understand why he's saying it. I can
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: understand why the optics are that bad, because he doesn't
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: look as if he is grappling with it the way
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: John Howard grappled with port Arthur all the way Chrismins
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: is grappling with this problem.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's intereing. I mean that the old
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: saying is that in politics, perception is reality. It doesn't
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: matter how things really are, it's what they look like
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and it's what people see them to be. And that's
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: that's what they think is real, and that is all
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: that matters, because in politics, the people or democracy, at
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: least as long as you're not communist China or a
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: two big dictatorship, people decide who they want to be
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: their government. And the truth is, of course that this
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: happened on Albanese's watch. It also happened on Chris Mins's watch.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: But he is not copying the hate. Why because he
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: has been able to find the words at the right
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: the right words at the right time, and the right
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: actions and well the actions, none of the actions that
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Chris Mins. I mean, and I love Christmins.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Chris recall parliament. It's going to be January before Albert
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Easy recalls parliament. Albertizy is asking for he was having meetings,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: He's holding press conferences.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the what I'm saying it was Chris. It
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: was under Chris. Look, and again I love Christmas. I
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: don't think this was a very hot moving situation that
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: people found very difficult to control. And you never know
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: whether you've made the right call until after the worst
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: has or hasn't happened. But again, it was New South
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Wales Police that inadvertently allowed the chance of the mob
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: on the Opera House right after October seven of you know,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: where's the Jews? Right? It was New South Wales Police
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: which gave one of these alleged gunmen his license so
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: he could have six guns. It was you know, New
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: South Aalst Police that had three junior officers on Bondai
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: at the beginning in a highly feebras situation at the
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: beginning of a Jewish festival where they were going to
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: be sitting duck targets, no fences, no security. Now again
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  Speaker 2: I'm not blaming New South walest police.
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  Speaker 1: Will infect you.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: But the way that.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: From the ninth of October, when that demonstration happened on
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: the steps of the Opera House and we heard those
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: terrible chants and that clear visible hatred of Jewish people,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: that's when I think we expect a federal government to
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: lead the nation. And nothing happened. He stayed on the
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: campaign trail. Yeah, it was a long time before anything happened.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Parliament wasn't recalled, there wasn't a statement, so right at
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the beginning it looked as though he dropped the ball.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: He just hadn't done anything.
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  Speaker 3: I also think Christmins has been very alive to the
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: pro Palestinian movement and how that's affected Jewish Australians. He
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: tried to stop that protest on the Harbor Reagion, he
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: was ruled.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Again. This is what I'm saying, Like Christians, I think
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  Speaker 2: has done absolutely everything in his power to try to
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: to try to stop something like this from happening. But
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: even then mistakes were made. But he still doesn't get
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: the blame because he is able to more quickly and
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: more easily connect with the Jewish community. They believe that
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: he really has their back. Where is clearly there done
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: that time. Clearly there is there is something missing there
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: with Alba. But I'm just saying it doesn't mean that
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: this guy, you know that Alba has blood in his hands,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: or that he wanted or allow.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: No one was saying anything dramatic like that. It's just
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: that he looks like he's out of his depth and
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't know handle how to handle a really difficult situation.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Chris Men's looks as though he does. And the contrast
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: is dramatic leadership versus no leadership. That's what I think
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the poll is telling us at the moment.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Obviously, be people on this issue are not marking him highly.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Speaking of leadership, however, the Great Chris Mens is leading
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: again from the front, and he is banning the phrase
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: globalized into farda. Mens says that this as I'm pretty
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  Speaker 2: sure anyone who knows what it literally means is an
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: invitation to violence. Have a listen.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: Demonstrations both here and around the world are a coll
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: to a global in to farer. I mean, that's what
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: it means, not in the Middle East, not in his
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: role regards, but here in Sydney, in our streets nor
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: I think I'm entitled to get an answer out, and
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: in those circumstances, I do believe it leads to a
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: culture and environment of heightened disunity and an invitation to violence.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: My God, we say exactly the same things. We're both
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: exactly as handsome as the other one. It's like we're sharing.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: It's like one of those Freaky Friday movies where we're
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: inhabiting the same body, and so Mins I think possibly
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: by the time this even goes to air with bipartisan
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: support and good on. Kelly Sloan, as Lloyd said, has
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: banned this phrase and said, look, this is an incitement
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: to violence. Is also introducing new legislation to ban protests
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: within three months of a declared terrorist event, because of
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: course this can inflame community tensions, spark race or religious hostilities,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: conflicts even possibly deaths. And so what are the pro
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Palestine lobby doing. Well, of course they're holding rallies and
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: chanting globalize the inter fada.
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: Have a look, I intend to keep saying globalize the entify.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. And of course, if you are going
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: to have a phrase prescribed by a government because it
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: is a direct incitement to violence, who would be the
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: first to then pick up that phrase and run with it?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: But a human rights lawyer say, they are a very
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: special professional.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: They are. But the phrase you just used is the
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: really important one. Incitement of violence. That's what's in that phrase.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: And I suspect that death death of the IDF is
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: just as much an incitement of violence. And I suspect
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: it is even from the rivers to the sea, because
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that's saying Palestine should run from the Mediterranean to the
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Jordan River. There should be no Israel. What happens to
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: seven million Jews in Israel, either deported or dead, that's
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: an incitement of violence. These phrases are dangerous not because
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: they're just hateful. They are incitements to violence, and.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: They're deeply offensive to Jewish Australians and actually to all Australians.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: And now awake to the fact that these slogans and
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: these calls to action are being made at protests like that.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, how dare they sort of have a mint
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: silence for the fifteen victims and then go straight into
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: globalizing infidrata. I mean, it's just beggars belief that they
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: would do that.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, bonkers, They're just they are radical extremists, whether they
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: know it or see themselves that way or not. Because
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, anyone you have to be such a card carrying,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: knuckle dragging fanatic to use the time of mourning for
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: fifteen innocent people. I mean you are almost literally dancing
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: on their graves. You use a time of morning you
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: don't even have even had the decency or the guts
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: to just say we don't care. You actually ride on
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the coattails of it, right, so you jump on the
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: kind of become a grief junkie. You jump on the
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: grief train to show, oh we care as well, we
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: care as well because we're so caring. Oh but what
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: about that cause that they were killed in the name
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: of They were killed because what there are by people
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: who don't want Israel to exist allegedly, And then you're saying, oh, yeah,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: but you know, let's not forget the terrorists had a.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Point, and the point is what they're arguing is something
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: which did not exist in Australia for a very long time.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: When I saw this going on, I remembered when I
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: was a very young lad, a junior clerk and working
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: in the CBD in Sydney. A friend of mine, a
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: fellow junior clark, walking down Pitt Street past the Great
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Synagogue and there it was. There was a door open
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and there's noga. So we just walked in and there
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: was a nice young man i'd say in his twenties,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and we said, we're really curious. Can we have a
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: look around. He said yes and gave us a little tour.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: That's what it was like in the days. That was
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the world I grew up in, and a lot of
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you grew up in that kind of world too. So
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: what we're seeing now in these kinds of protests has
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: been imported to Australia and it comes from two so courses.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: It comes from the hard left and from Islamic radicals,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and somehow rather they have become the strange bedfellows who
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: were doing this poisoning.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: Yes, strange bedfellows indeed aren't they extremist?
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Extremism always begets extremism, and eventually it marries up. And
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: so you have these two pairs called horseshoe theory. But
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: you have the extreme left and the extreme right of
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: a political divide. But they don't go in different directions,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: they end up joining up. And ladies and gentlemen, I
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: present for you queers for Palestine.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Which makes another sense at all. But there have been centers,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: haven't there in Sydney which have been encouraging this.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Well, that's right. And news today of course that Canary
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Bankstown Council has closed down one of these I call
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: factories of hate, the prayer hall linked to the notorious
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: preacher Wassim Hadad. They actually managed to do it by
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: going through some council records from the nineteen seventies and
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: they realized this place had never been approved as a
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: prayer hall and has only recently been approved as a
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: medical center. So the Almadina Center no more, which I
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: would say is terrific use because they are very insightful.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: They are you know, they target Jewish people. You know,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: they can't exist under these laws. I mean, yes, yeah,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: this is a great decision.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Getting al capone for tax evasion is exactly what I thought,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: very very clever.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Except I tell you what worries me. They've been shifted,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: not shut So the if it was done with a
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: law which said the kind of thing that dud was
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: saying on the video. We saw the video in which
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: he said, you know, one day the tree will shout out,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: there's a Jew hiding behind me. Muslim, come and kill him.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: That's the man we're talking about, and we've seen that
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: video so often. If that sort of thing was actually
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: banned and he could be stopped from ever saying that again,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: or if he's on a visa made to leave the country,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: that's stopping it, not just shutting down a center.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: And I worry we're doing something, Lisa, I've acted. I
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: think be commended for that really.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: And it's also it's interesting you raise that phrase because
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: this is one of the big problems with these hate
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: speech laws and to violence, because what a lot of
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: these hate preachers do, and it looks to me like
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: they're very careful to do it, and they know what
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: they're doing. They don't actually say, go out and kill Jews.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: They don't say, oh, you know, I want to kill Jews,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: or I'm going to kill Jews. So they're not declaring
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: that they're going to commit a terrorist act or a
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: criminal act, or threatening to commit a violent act themselves.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: They're not even directly inciting the people they're talking to
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: to go and do it. They're just saying, oh, this
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: is what the Quran says, or one day, you know,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: one day the tree will rise up into that and
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: you say, hey, I'm not saying it's a good thing.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: The seat though, aren't they they're planting the scene is
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: obviously impressive.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Of course they are. That's the whole point. Everyone knows
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: what that means is Yeah, but when but if you
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: were to mount And again, the big complaint has been
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: despite having eighteen C laws, despite having anti vilification and
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: hate speech laws, despite having you know, all these things,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: the prosecutions just haven't been there, including of hate preachers
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: like this, because they can just say, well, and I
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't insign device, I'm a theologian. I'm just interpreting.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: That that's just for Tony Burk has been saying, these
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: people very carefully shop stopped just short of the law,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: which is why the law's being changed, which is why
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: people are saying, why didn't you change these laws two
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: years ago. But when there is a branch of the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: media where you're getting a message which doesn't make it
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: as clear as that, it can be quite confusing. The
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: ABC's law at Tingle is one of their most senior journalists.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: She's been the staff representative on their board, a very
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: senior voice, and she said in one of their podcasts
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: that this terrorist incident, this terrorist horror at Bondy, was
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: not about religion. And of course then people immediately threw
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: their hands up in the air and said no, no, no, no.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: The AFP, this only Federal police said yes this is
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: isis inspired and the Australian, the New South Wales police
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: have said yes the alleged terrorists here had a religious motivation. Now,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Hugh Mark's the boss of the ABC, who was not
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: only their general man but their editor in chief. He's
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: come out and defended her journalism and the quality of
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: her journalism and what she did. One of the things
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: that bothers me about this is not only is she
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: denying their religious motivation, she's saying the fact that it
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: was fifteen Jews who were killed at a Jewish celebration,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: at a Jewish event is irrelevant. Their religion doesn't come
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: into it. It seems to me this is an unbelievably
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: offensive thing for her to say and for hu Marks
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: to defend.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, to be honest, it's almost like a
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: sort of ticker box kind of progressive line on terrorist attacks,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: where you know, you say, oh, it's nothing to do
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: with you, this isn't real Islam, this isn't you know,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: blah blah, blah blah. Now, when Muslim community leaders do it,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: and I have spoken to several in the wake of
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: this attack, that's actually a really good thing. So when
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: you have people like you know, my very good friend
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Jamal Reefi or others in the community who are standing
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: up say is meant to be?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: That's right, this is just meant to be. This is
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: one of these she and your.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Correspondent, that's what she did. What she would just say.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I think she said literally quote unquote, and there's nothing
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: to do with religion, nothing to do with religion. Now
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: that was that was that wasn't just in violation of
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: what the actual charges against the alleged terrorists are and
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: what the police are actually saying. The official police statement
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: that was quoted by the ABC on its own website
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: said this was a religious leaders.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Hugh Marx comes and defends it. I mean, I don't
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: know what's happened with Hugh Marx. Is that the coach
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that he's now gone native drunk the cooler when he.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Took that role would of bring through the place in
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: which was cheap.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: For him to defend it is really disappointing even if
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: he weren't on the public surprised.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Really he has to defend the style journalists but.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: He really doesn't have to.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Time is that the ABC is institutionally Albert said, caause
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: a stuff run Soviet.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't feel that the right things to do,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: of course, but when the facts get in the way
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: of the ABC ideology that is, ignore the facts and
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: they're basically telling Australians that don't worry about what the
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: police report said. We're telling you more than a religious is.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Used not to be like, I mean, this is this
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: has me being this is me being a grumpy old man.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: But I worked for the ABC for twenty five years
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and when I came into the ABC, one of the
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: first things you didn't what was called an induction course
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: in those days, and one of the first things they
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: said in the induction course was ABC staff do not
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: express opinions. And it was actually true in those days.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: And put that on a clash.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Sad thing is that Gonja's.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Not expressing an opinion. Kell, She's just reporting the facts.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with religion. Bells police are wrong.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll find it amazing that this is a
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: say Laura Tiggle who said that Australia was a racist country,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: just as a statement of fact, based on a scene
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: she had imagined in her head about someone bidding on
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: someone bidding on a proper and blaming the Chinese for
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: the prices something. It was just this kind of crazy,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: which quite frankly, real vendors do all the time. But anyway,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: this is But the thing is, the weird thing is
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: that Laura Tingle is just the absolute hero, the absolute
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: darling of this whole sort of collective of sort of
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: friends of the ABC type, the sort of superactive, super
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: hyper ABC you love it or love it? Who all
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: think and you're going to have to sit down and
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: hold onto your hats at the same time, that the
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: ABC is too right wing, that it's gone, that it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: the ABC is now lurched to the right, and that
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: producers like the person and presenters like the person Laura
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: ENTINGLEAMU was speaking to Patricia Cavellis are all closet liberals.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: David Spears is a closet liberal. And so there's actually
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: this hardcore out there for whom the apex the.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Staff though, because I was talking to a friend of
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: mine who's the staff member there at the ABC. They
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: are absolutely convinced. They're dead in the middle. They're right
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: in the center. They have no they're not right wing,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: they're not left wing. So they are absolutely straight down
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: the middle and they cannot understand what is going on.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: That's right, because they've got a whole bunch of card
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: carrying communists say, you guys are so right right now,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: only more a tickle tills the truth. It is just bonkers. Anyway,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I got to feel sorry for them. Almost now here
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: is another little fun one speaking of people expressing their
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: minds during via the media, Social media and news companies
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: could be sued over hate speech that simply gets posted
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: to their platforms, in other words, not anything they themselves
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: have said, although in the case of social media companies,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: of course they never say anything at all. It's just
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: the other people who.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Say things amplifying respond for it.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: But indeed, even mainstream media companies could be sued for
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: comments that are made not by their own staff or
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: reporters in news articles or opinion pieces, but in the
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: comments section that readers can post in. Guess what, we don't.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: That's why we had moderate, that's why we turned off
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: the comments, and we're talking about highly charged things like
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Islamic extremism. So so, I mean, this
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: is kind of just. I mean, I think it's good
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: for the social media companies, but I think we were
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: already starting to win that argument anyway, that they were
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: actually publishers, they were not just passive platforms, which where
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: other people.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I've been arguing for years. Now all you needed was
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: a federal law classifying the social media platforms as publishers,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: and that's all you need to do. Suddenly, all the
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: laws that apply to publishers would apply to them, and
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: it would all work. This is being done by the
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: way in Victoria, so it's just sit around and doing
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: this and being a skeptical journalist, I thought, why is
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: she doing this? Is she looking for a way to
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: frighten everyone from making comments on newspaper stories because so
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: many of the companies about her are so rude journalist, No.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Not at all, but I thought it was interesting as
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: well that she's talking about wanting to id users who
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: actually make these hateful comments. I'm kind of in favor
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: from that because they often hide behind these pseudonyms and
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: the's fank account, and particularly if they're targeting children as well,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: they should be their identity should be revealed so they
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: can be punished.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: A decade ago, there was a campaign called Stop the Trolls,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: which was basically exactly this, that you couldn't hide behind
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: anonymous identities and that social media companies, even if they
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: were based overseas, had to comply with the law of
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the country where their comments were actually being published, not
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: just where they were headquartered. And that campaign was led
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: by a very handsome young journalist called Joe Hildebrand and
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: spheaded by The Daily Telegraph under now Sky News Supremo
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Paul Whittaker, and so this is so just in Allen. Yeah, great,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: but it's.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Been done exactly. Think for a moment about the nation
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: of Greenland. It is a it's covered in perma frost,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: it's covered in snow and ice the whole of the year.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: In fact, it was discovered by a Viking named Eric
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the Red, who deliberately named it Greenland because he wanted
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to lure people to go there. He didn't want them
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: to know what it was really like. Greenland was a
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: dependency of Denmark for a very long time. They now
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: are self governing but not independent. They could actually choose
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: independence anytime they wanted to under a two thousand and
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: nine agreement they have with Denmark, but they remain a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Danish territory. There's only fifty seven thousand people living there.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: And from the beginning of his presidency, Donald J. Trump
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: has been saying he wants Denmark to be part of England.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: And now he has appointed a man a state governor,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry. Landry is Special Envoy to Greenland
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: and his job is to make Greenland part of the US.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know how serious this is. I think this
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: may be just a bit of a gesture. You know
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: how much the governor's been paid to do this? Nothing,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: It's not a job he gets paid for. He remains
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: governor of Alabama all the time. But he's underlining the
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: fact that Trump wants to get his hand on Greenland
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: because it's a great missile base if you're fighting with Russia.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: It's got some minerals in it, and I suspect he'd
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: like to turn it Louise into a great tourist resort
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: full of Trump towers.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Well, possibly, yes, But I don't think you secure allies
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: by the threating to take their land, do you. I mean,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: it's like it's a land grab sort of dressed up
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: as a national security issue. And I think you're absolutely
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: right about the rare minerals thceing he's definitely got his
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: eyes on those. But I think the fact that, look,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: is it a joke? Sometimes Trump comes out with stuff,
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Joe would argue, possibly all the time Trump comes out
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: with stuff.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I mean the beauty of Trump is he never quite sure. Yeah.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Think amazing that this has come out when he's taking
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: a bit of a dip in the Poles though record.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Which means he thinks his base will like.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: It, or it's just a distraction. It's just hey, what
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: are you doing in the cost of living crisis? What
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: are you doing? And I'm kidding, Hey, guys, look over
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Hereland buy it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Only fifty seven thousand people there. I mean, surely he
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: come up with enough vibes to persuade fifty seven thousand
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: people America.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: He said anything about persuading them.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: We're talking about Donald J. Trump, that it's the property of.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Kind of like what is like Greenland is absolutely I mean,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: we'll see what it's rare as potentially is. Then of
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: course there'll be a race to there'll be a new
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: gold rush. But I mean Greenland is not useful to
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: strate strategic America would be useful because.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: They just don't want Trump to have it.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I'm glad you mentioned Eric that read though,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: because you know he was a he was a notorious
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: warlord and murderer, murdered a lot of innocent people, but also,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: as you said, a terrible liar, so basically a real
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: estate agent quite possibly.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And the Europeans have noticed exactly what Trump's noticed, and
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: they're quite keen for this strategic territory within striking distance
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: of Russia to be Romain part of Europe? Now is
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: it the case if you occupy a bit of land
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: for long enough, you can claim it. You can say
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: that it's yours by They used to say possession is
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: nine tenths of the law. Well, it's part of the
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: law and you'll find out how bigger part after the break.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: This is the latter bait with me kil Richards with
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Louise Roberts. I've got it right this time then terrific.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks No Joe Brown.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Joe Brown Brown, judge Joe Brown, did you ever watch
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: that show?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: No?
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: That was television?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Right? Is it the truth that possession is part of
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the law. If you possess something long enough, you can
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: come into owning it. Well, in fact, there is such
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: a thing as squatter's rights under the law. It's called
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: adverse possession of a property. And if you occupy a
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: property currently the rule is if you occupy a property
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: and make it clear you're occupying and otherwise unused property
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: for twelve views, you can then claim that property under
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: the law. And it's happened with a particular harborside property
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: where there was a little triangular bit of land between
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: two properties and the Sydney Man has claimed that harbourside
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: suburb land, which would be worth a million dollars. I
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: would think because it is harbour side land, the little
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: bit in yellow that you can see sandwich between the
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: two properties, he moved in and started using it. It
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: was otherwise unused, and now he's made a claim before
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the court saying on the basis of this adverse possession
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: that is squat has rights, it's his and he can
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: have it. And it looks as though he's going to
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: get away with the Loyes.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Well yeah, because I think it's not about him taking
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: the land. I think it's about the law actually catching
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: up under the Torrens title, isn't it. That's actually it
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: was under the old title system that this sort of
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: land was in sort of a bays and a beer.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: But I think he's totally legitimate because there's been a
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: kitchen built on the plant some time. Yes, probably since
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: the Beatles to it here in the sixties or something.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Like that, but that's right. Yeah, So it's a tiny
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: little bit of land that wasn't transferred to the modern
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: title system when the rest of the property was. So
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: as a result, they've got this tiny bit of this
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: tiny little sliver like we saw there that the actual
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: building has been on, which they just always assumed was theirs.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And then when they tried to sell the property and
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: they looked at the actual title deeds and then he said,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: hang on a minute, what's this here? What about this
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: bit here? And if you look at that little yellow
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: triangle there that is three point three.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Five square meters, it's a little bit.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: It is a very very very small set of lamb.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And to me, this represents a great wasted opportunity because
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I think instead of any of the neighbors getting it,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: there should have been a third party, a new party
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: come in, some kind of old you know, some kind
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: of you know, grass and hippie who you know, comes
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: in and sort of starts the LEAs of everybody just
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: stick a couch there and start living on it, and
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: you can just squat there.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Further toward well, you're going to say, for as long.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: As well, because nobody's land, and like that would be
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: a reality TV show.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Actually it has happened. It has actually happened. There was
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: a case in Sydney just a few years ago in
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: a Sydney suburb where a man inherited his mother's house
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: when she died. He didn't want to live into it.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: He had his own home, so he sold all the contents,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: locked it all up and just left it and thought,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I'll leave it because it will gain in value. Sidney
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: property prices being what they are, it will just go
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: on gaining in value. Someone discovered that it was an
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: empty house, moved in and made it clear, made it
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: public that he was living there. He had his mail
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: address there and he kept it up for the man
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: who really owned the property was far enough away not
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: to notice. After twelve years, the man who had squatted
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: in the place went to the courts and said, I
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: want you to declare it mine, and they did and
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: he got it. That's a whole house in Sydney, claimed
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: other squat as.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Right noticed for twelve years.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Just close enough. I don't know whether he was in
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: another city. I haven't found that out.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: I'm on the squatter's side. I think, use it or
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: lose it, buddy.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: But that's the idea. The idea is that property should be.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Used, and there are actually there are laws like that
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: as well, so you yet penalized. The latest federal budget
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: has penalties for not actually using your property letting out
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: because of them.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Look in a case of vigilante parenting out of the
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: where Sir, Florida mum has been arrested for dunking another
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: child in a hotel pool after she claims her own son,
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: a six year old, was bullied by that child. So basically,
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: she put her hands on the kids shoulders and push
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: him under water for enough time for him to then come.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: I do that all the time, according the kids, and
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: then it clearly came up to the surface. Was very distressing.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: I think his nose is bleeding or something like that.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: She's since been arrested and charged with aggravated child abuse
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: and they're sitting in jail with no bond, which an American
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: term means that they're regarding it pretty seriously. She was
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: screaming at the child he ran to his parents. I mean,
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: this is technically unacceptable. I mean not only not only
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: I guess disciplining someone else's kid, but actually assaulting child's
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: just appalling.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: And why why didn't she just go to the parents.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: And so your child has done this, do something discipline
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: your child? Do you talk to the parents. I saw
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the story and I thought she watched too many Clint
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Eastwood movies in which the only thing you do is
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: get revenged.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this woman's a hero. I'm on the mom's side.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Someone was bullying my kid, you know, look, just wait
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: till the coast was clear. That was the biggest The
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: first big mistake was getting caught.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: There were CTV cameras every week.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Saying, you know, just a bit of you know, a
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: bit of spray paint, you know, if you know where
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: to look, just check your corners and then just you know, take.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: The little You can't have any sympathy, really, it is.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: The Well, look, can I be absolutely honest with you,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I'm just guessing. I don't personally know this family, but
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I'm just guessing, based purely on the mother's behavior, that
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: it's possible that it wasn't her child who was being
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: bullied by the other child, that maybe maybe you know,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: there's a bit of well, maybe there's just a well,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: maybe what she called bullying wasn't what, you know, sensitive
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: inner city parents like myself would call bullying. But I
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: think she has a few issues with impulse control.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: She will to the slap called the dunking.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know again, but seriously, though, like it
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: is the golden rule. You're absolutely right, you cannot under
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: any circumstances. You've always got to go through the parents
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: touch the child. But don't you like if you if
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: you see your child being bullied and it's absolutely clear
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: that you know that the kid is not therest done
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: nothing to observe it, that it's not ambiguous, that it's
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: just some kinds and you just know, and I've seen it,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: and every other parent knows. Everyone says that this kid
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: that you know, this kid is really mean and being
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: incredibly horrible or just physically attacking them. I'd really I
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: find it hard to hold myself.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. You talk to the parent, always.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Talk sometimes the parents of the problem. Sometimes it's all
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: the talking the problems.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: Well, anyway, if you don't, you might end up like
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: that will then improve them.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, what she should have done, you have sitting rights.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: You know what she should have done. Instead of dunking
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: the kid in a hotel pool, she should have just
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: paid five dollars to give him a shower at a
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: music festival. Because there is a music festival called Lost
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Paradise which is going to charge patrons five dollars as shower.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Now this is wrong on so many levels. But wait
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: till you hear why under new sustainability measures. Yes, it's
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: not because they're just greedy pigs. It's because they're doing
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: it for mother Earth. For guy, it's just absolutely so. So.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: This is in Glenworth Valley, the New South Wales Central Coast, Hintland.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I must admit it was a music festival I was
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: unfamiliar with until now, one of the very few, because
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: obviously I'm a pretty hit kind of you know, forty
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: something going on fifty something kind of guy. But firstly,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: how soft have our kids become? Where they ever had
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: showers at music festivals in the first place? The whole
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: point I need to go. You get filthy and roll
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: around the mud and you know, shag whoever you come across,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: and I don't know what they do. I'm just thinking
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: about Woodstock anyway. The idea that you would have showers
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: in the first place suggests to me that this generation
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: of kids doesn't know how to party. Secondly, though, if
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: you are going to have showers and then charge people
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: for them, do you know where you are? You're a
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: capitalist and that is a betrayal of the hipster socialist
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: ethos the kids have between the ages of eighteen and
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: twenty one, and which the smart ones then grow out of,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: while the idiots hold on to it until.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: These kids are snowflakes. What they're getting is an incredible deal.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: They're going to a music festival. It goes for five days.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: You know what the total cost they pays there to
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: go and camp on the land four hundred to five
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars. You can't stay in a motel for a
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: week for four hundred to five hundred dollars. It's really cheap.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: You know, whether they were charging for a shower five
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: dollars really cheap, perfectly reasonable. There are a bunch of snowflakes.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: They're winging. They shouldn't be winggy. The people who are
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: organizing this festival are doing exactly the right thing. They're
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: very sensible. Thumbs up is.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: That because you're so concerned about the global.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm running into smelling people, talked to them.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: You don't have to smell them, and goes for a
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: festival to stay clean, really well, you're caked in mud
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: from head to toe for days on edit, okay.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Friday, dollars five dollars is cheap if you're caked in
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: head to mud from head to take they five dollars
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: have the shower. It's cheap.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: But I still think it's dressed up as sort of,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: you know, saving the planet.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Oh the language they dressed it up in.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Cash grab violates the you know, the neo environmental socialist,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: green activist ethos that at every self respecting feral music
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: festival goer.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I don't think I understood a word of that.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I don't either, but that's what they do, that's what
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: they fer.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: A woman who lives in Manly has said she's been
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: getting a few dodgy looks because she goes to her
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: local coals on the course the store. Well, I know
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: the air very well in her swimmers, so she.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Comes off the beach she bought.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: She comes off the beach and walks into Coles and
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: browses a cereal aisle or wherever she likes to go.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: She's wearing a swimsuit and she's getting some pretty evil
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: stairs from other people who feel she should be probably
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: dressed top to toe, not showing any flesh at all.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Swimsuits are skimpy by nature, and they always have been
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: in Australia, it's face.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: One piece or a two piece, do we know?
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: I think she's a bikini girl and she probably looks
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: fabulous in it. And if you go down to the
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: cours at Man and I know that air very well.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: And my own daughter goes down there, she's seventeen. She
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: walks around in a cosey all her mates do. No
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: one even bat's an eyelid, So I'm amazed.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Is it full?
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: No?
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Is it a full sort of modest bikini bottom or
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: is it a g The brazilianina on the situation.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: She strings some of them normal bikinis.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Where did you say this?
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: We actually are?
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: We are, it's on the course, madly.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: We told what it is, just that it's swimmers. As
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: long as the swimmers aren't tripping everywhere, I can't.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: See that, just like trip has it or spill has
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: it exactly? I think people got better things to worry
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: if it's the real first world.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Problem having a problem with topless sunbathing.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Story, there's no topless somebody get to.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Like if you say, you know and so far and
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: you can wear it on the beach, so you can
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: wear it in the supermarket.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: People don't really Some bays topless in my experience on
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: Malely Beach. Yeah, but look all power of this girl.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: She's saying, while am I getting, you know, sort of
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: evil looks because I've gone into coals in my cozy.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is the Northern Beaches where there's some
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: pretty impressive looking people walking around, so there's no eyesols.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Actually Northern Beaches. You know what that makes me think
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: these people doing this are all palms. They've watched too
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: many episodes of Home and Away and they think this
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: is what you do in summer Bay, don't you reckon?
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Maybe they're a palmi, but certainly around many lots of
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: locals walking around their cozees, and nobody's batting an eyelid.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: No one's giving anyone grieve. So I say to this
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: young woman, keep wearing your bikini and coals.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're wearing that she's not being son smart enough.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe they are really that concerned about other people. What
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: a Santa Claus should do in a shop is to
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: be concerned about other people. He should be concerned about
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: the little kids who've come along and the parents have
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: paid a lot of money to have a photograph with
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: the child sitting on Santa's knee and Saturn needs to
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: be Sata needs to do the hohle ho ho stuff
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: and you know, have you been good a little chat
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: to them. There is one Sata in one shopping center
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: who is not I don't know that he's been sacked,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: but he's been set out for retraining. The shopping center
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Sata has been forced into retraining after quote a flat
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: and unenthusiastic performance. Parents were complaining about the fact he
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: didn't talk to their kids, he wasn't interested in the
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: little toddlers, he didn't do the cheery ho ho ho stuff.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: And one parent said, he did talk to my teenage
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: son and all he did was ask him tell him
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: how important studying was. So this is a very serious Sata.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: But that's not what the job being center is, is it?
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Well? No, But why we performance reviewing Santa's I mean
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: it's a pretty tough job sitting there and having various children,
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: I think, right, sitting on his lap and doing God
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Sitting there, you know, he's Santa like it's a job,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: he's signed up, He's been doing it for infinity.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: I feel like I want to defend him. I think
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: it's a bit mean to be picky on Santal like that.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: But apparently there's a whole raft of moms who've said, no, no, no,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: he's too cold, he's too distant, he's not interested, which
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: is which is really not.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: You're lining up at Santa's workshop in a shopping center.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know how he gets so many workshops and
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: so many different shopping centers at the same time, but
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: he's he's good like that, like if you're lining up,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: and then Santa obviously has pretty high overheads at the
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: North Pole because the pictures with Santa are pretty you know,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: like I think maybe the iPhone has changed a bit
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: of that, but certainly it's not cheap to you know,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of them. They're charging your top dollar and
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: you know you kind of want you know, maybe he
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: does need a bit of a performance review. You know what.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: School in America and the guy who runs it came
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: out to Australian a Santa school here once. So there
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: are skills involved, there are learnable skills involved. Keet I
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: was wondering why he would do that. He's obviously signed
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: up for the job, he wants the money, he wants
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: to do there be there and doing this, and yet
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: he's doing it really badly and performing. I wondered if
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: he was struggling with a secret sorrow, whether there's some
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: sort of private.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: It's very quick, he's recovering from some childhood trauma.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I've got no idea, but it does seem really strange
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: that you'd agree to do the job and then you
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: wouldn't do it in a jolly friendly way. And if
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: he was feeling a bit down. There's nothing more cheerful
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: than talking to little kids anyway. They always cheer me up.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: So I don't understand this man being so glum.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe I was asking his bosses if he could work
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: from Ho Hoo home.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: There have been I've got to say, over the years
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: they've got there's been a whole lot of really terrible
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: puns on this program. That's fairly close to the worst.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, yeah, Look, I don't know. I don't know
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: what came ho ho hover me. You can move on
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: a party. Let's now go to this is the thing.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Do you ever worry about community spirit? Kell, Yes, Lou,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I worry about you know, people not volunteering,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: people not giving back to the community, not you know,
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: helping out other people in need, or if they don't
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: happen to be any other people in need, helping out
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: other animals in need. Well, spare thought for this poor
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: old Wires volunteer who was convicted of animal cruelty for
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: nursing an injured kangaroo back to health and then admittedly
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: killing it, but still for its own benefit and protection,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: because it wasn't, you know, euthanizing it safely as a.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Well it was euthanized by a vet and by an
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: RSPCA in speak. Two came along and saw that she
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't looking after properly. It'd been caught in a bar
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: wi and I think I think she's got herself to
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: blame because she didn't follow the Wires rules. I don't
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: think this is dangerous for other wildlife protectors because the
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Wires rules are fairly clear. Some friends of mine live
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: across the road from us. Actually we've got a house
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: full of animals recovering because they work for Wires and
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: they care. We take the grand children across to visit
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: the ft puppy, the possum room. It's anyway, the wise
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: people have got rules. Surely being your own vet is
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: against the rules. Isn't it. Yeah, I think so, Yeah, Okay.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking maybe you know, if you're a wires volunteer
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: and you let your kangaroo get stuck in a barbed
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: wire fence, maybe this isn't the vocation.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: So unfortunately for that lady, we know you're facing criminal charges,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: but you've got no in the panel. Sorry about it.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe you could become a Sata Claus at a shopping center,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: whill you be in the right frame of mind.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I would think to do that. After the break, one
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: of the singing voices of Christmas has departed. We'll talk
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: about that in just a moment. Welcome back. Music is
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: a big part of Christmas as a whole bunch of
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: songs that we think of as being just the special
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: songs of Christmas. But now there is a gap in
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: the ranks. Luise, tell us about it.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So sad news overnight that Chris Ria has started
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: at seventy four, very sort of famous singer, songwriter, guitarist
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: out of the UK had sort of battled ill health
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: for a number of years, but having lived in the
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: UK for a long time, I can tell you that
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: his seminal song driving Home for Christmas, you could not
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: go into a store, or go into a pub or
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: any sort of been even people's homes without hearing this
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: song play. So it's absolute Christmas classics. I was very
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: sad to hear that he passed away, and for me,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: his songs really felt lived in that. You know, he
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: talked about long drives and days on the beach and
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: I'll introduce some of his music heal, but yeah, very
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: sort of easy listening, but you know, real sort of
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: family favorites. I think in a way.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well you have to introduce me to the music
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: because I.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: Have a bit now.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: For Christmas. I can wait to see those faces.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: Very smooth. And there's quite a good story behind this
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: as well that apparently he wrote this song when he
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: was at a very low ab he didn't have a manager,
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: which given his phenomenal success, I'm quite surprised to hear that.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: And he was actually banned from driving, so his wife
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: had to drive him from London to Middlesbrough in North Yorkshire,
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: where he's from for Christmas. He then wrote a worldwide
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: smash it about it. So yeah, very sad news that
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: he's passed away.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I should have written a song like that during my
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: previous writing on the Metro. Is it not true? I
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: have to I can't let her get away with this cow?
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Is it not true that just a couple of days
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: ago you thought, oh, you know what I might put on?
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I might put on some Chris Rea. Let me see,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: I've got a Fosterale poll, find some Chris Rea, and
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: I wonder what he's up to now and put the
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: song on. Then the next day he died.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: You say, I'm the kiss of death.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: How do you feel?
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Not good?
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: You're not being personally responsible now. We very briefly mentioned
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: because it's it's a nice story about an Australian expat
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: living in London, and he says, the thing that annoys
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: me is the londoners around him when they talked HI
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: about Australia, think all the wildlife is deadly poisonous and
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: you might die around any corner. His name is Cory.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: This is what he had to say.
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: So I spent most of my time outside of Australia
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: right living overseas, and half the conversations I'm involved in
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: are constant battle of trying to fight the whole killer
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: animal stereotypes. You know you're not going to be mauled
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: by for sized spider. A snake won't take your children
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: in the night. And then I come home to this.
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: Now the am I meant to explain this?
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: I straight up give up.
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: Yeap, kangaroos gone a glassier, you go down the pub
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: and a jellyfish took my dog.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Leave what you want.
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: I'm done.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Look he does not have my sympathy. I have to say,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: I live in the Sydney Funnel Funnel Web area and
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: they are the most deadly spiders on Earth. And play
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: it up, play it up.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: I have to say, having a shark bite kit on
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: a beach does not make me feel safer.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's all.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: It's fine. Kid's going for sweep as a shark bite kit.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your company tonight, Louise Joe,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: and thank you for your company. Good night.