Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 280: Cat Scratch Fever

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Ep. 280: Cat Scratch Fever · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening don't eat podcast.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: You can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: stay longer. Alright, eighty body joined today by none other
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: than the cat Lady Spencer new Heart. And the other
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: cat lady is cat Lady Buddy said, sat the flip flap,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: flush your more, got it? That's great. Two cat ladies
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: build the engineer Karan Brody's got no cat never will
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: you don't even? Yeah, cat lady, but you specially don't.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: You don't need to act like a cat lady. No,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Brodie's eyes in a not cat snuggling mood. I used
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to scrape barn cats off the highway now and then
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: back when I was a kid. That's about his tossing
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the ditch. Okay, was that like a professional. We had
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: We had courses and there's a lot of bar bar cats.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Your own barn cat. Yeah, I could tell you some
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: cast stories to curl your hair, man, but I could too.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah I won't, I'd wind up. I don't know. It
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: won't be good. Um Oh, first, okay, we're gonna plead
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to there's the thing. I gotta plead because there's there's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: a I'm in a professional predicament. We have been talking
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: since last December about we were gonna do a fine
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: art coffee table book. It was a joke. It wasn't
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: a fine art coffee table book. Left up Old deer Stands, Okay,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: funked up Old deer Stands his name of the book.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a fine art coffee table book for
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: meat eater. And so we were gonna go and get
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: like our own camera guys, our own photographers. We just
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: encounter crazy tree stands and you know, kind of rotten,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: dangerous whatever like crazy tree stands. So we started talking
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: about how we're gonna do this book, and we opened
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: up a thing for submissions, and how many do we have?
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: So far, one thousand, three seventy people have sent in submissions.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I have been getting a ton of pushback in snyde
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: commentary from the people that work at this company about
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: this project. Oh big time. There is a people are
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: very very very incredulous project. Everything about it, Everything about it,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: how's it tied to what we're doing? On? Man? Telling
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you what, dude, when this thing it's gonna be a calendar.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: It's not gonna be two. It's gonna be a calendar.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: It could be a two if your kids are what
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: your plug your kid's ears. It's called funked up old
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: deer stands. We have some of the we just got.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: It's amazing what's out there. We got a great one
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: recently of an a t M machine, an a t
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not king an a t M cash machine on
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a stand, but where you can sit in the a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: t M machine. Yeah, like where are you like the
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: screen hole literally on the top of it, says cash machine. Yeah,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: we're talking like you know those like plastic stackable chairs
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: like you like in Mexico and you go to like
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: a eat a taco, like the Coca Cola whatever, one
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: of those lashed up to a tree, limb way up
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: in a tree for the plank that you like, apparently
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: walk out the plank and then get in the plastic
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: chair lashed up in the tree. I hope he's near
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Alan Lazare's Hospa said have you bagged up? There's a
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: big trampoline underneath it. So no, it's it's a great project.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a calendar. They'll be a cover. I
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: need people when it's time. I need you to be
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: ready to buy this thing so that I can be
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: proven to be right. But then we're only going to
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: use twelve out of there's always like if if people
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: can get my back on this and buy this calendar,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: whether they want it or not, as a Christmas present,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: then the book will come. But I need people to
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: get on board with it's the greatest collection ever. Funked
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Up Old Deer stands in existence, and then we'll do
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: funked Up Old Duck Hunting Blinds after that. In votes, yeah,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: fulbes so in production, like in production is a thing
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: where like met Eater, the show, the TV show Metator,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: if you look at all our stuff, it's always s
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: r M E, so it's like Steven Elli meater. And
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: if you're like packing a Pelican case for a camera,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: you put like sr M E blank number, and that's
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: sort of our thing. This project is funds fo U
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: d s, so internally we call it funds. What I
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: was laughing about is a fund is a guy. A
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: fund I always gonna keuse of being a fund. A
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: fund is an Elmer fund. Why him, I don't know,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: but a fund is if you if you're like relationship
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: to firearms is around hunting weapons, and you sort of
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: make the mistake of thinking that like the Second Amendment,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: like is like meant to protect people with hunting guns
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: or whatever. That's like your view on it. You become
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: a fund and that's a that's a per that's a pejorative.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: You don't want to be a fund. But now I'm
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: not a fund. You're taking it back. Well, no, I'm
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: not a fun because someone just set me. I haven't
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: picked it up yet, but I'll have a R. So
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I'm just like a right wing nut. Now people call
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: me right wing. I'll be no longer fun. Now I'm
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: a right wing nut job. You can out call people funds. Yeah,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Seth was already right wing nut job. He's at a
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: R the whole time I knowing him, so he now
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I would be like, yeah, Seth, he's always like, I
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: don't want to hang out with Steve. He's a fun
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: fun Now I mean, Seth aren't gonna hang out with
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: other people because they're funds and we're right wing nut jobs.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Brody Layout, the Arizona Trail camp ban, this is this
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: is ah, this is interesting yeah, first date to ban
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  Speaker 1: the use of trail cameras, trail cameras for the purpose
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife, basically
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: saying banned year round, yes, like full on bands starting
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: private and public Yes, yes, January on. That is like
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: a way way I didn't know until right now. That
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: is a very extreme version of this. Yeah, other states
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: have banned drones and trail cameras at certain times of
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the year on public land and stuff like that, but
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: this is the full the full on. It's like you
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  Speaker 1: can't ever have them out even months before the season
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: to what about the movement? What about for like surveillance
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: like personal security and stuff like I don't even know
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: if they've like figured that part of it out, like
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you know, but they're saying year round because states do
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: public land up until the season starts, or they do.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: You can have the kind that you have to pull
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: a card, but you can't leave the kind out that
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: transmits a message right or private land only. But that
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: is really because that's like the most trail cam and
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: state in the Union, man. I mean, they're following those
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: big Kai bad bucks around all year long. And yeah,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I got friends to talk about that they're they're sitting
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: there hunt. One time in Arizona, they washed the mulder
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: come into a watering hole at dusk and they said
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: it must have been twenty cameras went off at a
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: water hole. Yeah, like you come in and like people,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: you all, everybody's got everybody keeps their cameras around the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: water holes. And in addition to the unfair advantage that
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: they did mention that these things have caused some like
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: conflict between people because everyone's trying to get a picture
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of the same buck, right, you know, if if someone
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: knows about it or what you know, a big bull whatever. Um.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: But the public public comments, But the public opposed the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: band by roughly a two to one margin. But the
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: five person commission, five to nothing remoted against. Yeah, what
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the I wonder what they're looking at that made them
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  Speaker 1: so sure? Says trail cameras violate fair chase, which you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: there's an argument to be made there, Like I can
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: see the argument. Yeah, you do well, and I know
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: from talking to you know, and well i'll tell you
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: right now, I have sitting on the desk in my
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: garage ready to go, which I'm gonna place this weekend.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: A trail camera, yeah, which I'm fixing to put out
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: in the woods. Yeah, I mean we've talked about it before.
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  Speaker 1: You're sitting at home, you get a little notification on
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  Speaker 1: your phone, Big Larry just walked by your stand. You
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: drive out there and jump in the stand, you know,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: or just just knowing what's going on when you're not there.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: There's there's an argument to be made that I used
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: mine for just general animal looking though. Yeah. Yeah, like
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I I saw something on It's probably Instagram or something
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  Speaker 1: the other day where a guy left a trail camera
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  Speaker 1: out in the mountains for an entire year and had
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: like thirty thousand images that he was sifting through, and yeah,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: it'd just be cool to see what's walking around out there.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I put one behind my fish shack one time, and
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: like right behind it, there's a little gang sholder's eyes,
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  Speaker 1: deer and bear on it, and uh, my buddy's wife
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: went back there and pe he pulled the card. Never
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: gave me the card, but then uh, I gotta have
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: just wipe that card and give it to me. Then uh,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I left it there for a year and it was
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: cool because it'd be like bear deer bared deer, but
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: there's like this dough. It was just there all the time,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and you see, uh, also she's got her fawn. It's
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: but a little you multiple pictures over every day. You know,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: what's kind of sad man. I can't remember what month
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: it was, but later in the summer, just back to
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: being by herself or something happen to it. The thing
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that's cool too is um like a lot of discoveries
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: are made via these trail cameras by people who aren't
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: necessarily trying to find a wolverine where a wolverine never was.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Or Yeah, there's a book. I've plugged this book a
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: couple of times. It's called Candid Creatures or something like that,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: and it's a book about how trail cams they called
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: camera like camera, I'll just called camera traps, just called
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: trail cams. The way that trail cams have rewritten a
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: lot of our understanding of animal distribution. There's an amazing
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: picture in there, and I think it maybe I think
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: it was captured in Arizona. Is the only known picture
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: of a jaguar standing in the snow. That's awesome and
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: came off a trail cam. But imagine if this happened
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: in Wisconsin or Iowa, I think it would turn the
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: white tail hunting industry like upside down or something like
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: that happens. Oh, if that spreads, it's gonna cause a
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: real reckoning. Uh like if that sentiment. But it's surprisingly
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: that came out of Arizona because I know that in
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: the white tail dominated states is so big. But um,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like like trail camp maybe trail camp uses
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: like very prevalent, and maybe it's because it's just gotten,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: you know. And and the other thing about Arizona is
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: like just it being dry. Is it Arizona, Colorado. It's Arizona, Arizona, Colorado.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: One thing that Arizona doesn't have is it doesn't have
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: um like the enormous herds that you have in the North.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: It's just like there's kind of like you know, like
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: you just look at the tag allocation process, there's like
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Arizona doesn't have a lot. There's not a lot of
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: like over the counter um big game hunting opportunities. Like
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: it's a pretty there's a somewhat competitive atmosphere to getting permits.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: There's a competitive atmosphere in these certain hunt units. Yeah,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: competitive atmosphere for outfitters to get the hunter that drew
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the tag, you know, because they don't have they don't
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: have like massive elk herds like you find in the North,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: you know, but they have massive elk and they have
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: some massive mulder like something. You know, they got just
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: some giants. Man, it's you know, it's managing that way.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: It's managed like pretty conservatively. But huh, I gotta think
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: about that for a day or two to draw it
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to get an opinion about it. I assumed it meant
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: that you had to pull it once hunting season started
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: full on. Well, but couldn't you argue if it's out
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: in June that you're not using it for the taking
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: of game? But yeah, I mean I don't think they've
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: sure you could be going putting it out to take
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: pictures of birds. Right, I'll talk about that a little bit.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: More's gonna be joined later by I got two people
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: coming on, Annie Bolton, who's a dude that we just
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: filmed in Hawaii with we uh if? Again referring to Instagram,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I put some pictures on Instagram from when Cal and
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I were out spear fishing and hunting in Hawaii. Uh
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: While I was out there, he had had this he
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: was sick. While we were there, went through all the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: normal things like, oh, he must have COVID. Now it
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't sound like COVID. Anyways, by the time we got
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: home back to back to uh Montana here he had
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: found out that he had contracted AU from from eating
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: raw game meat. He had contracted uh, toxo plasmosis, right,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: is that the right word we're talking And they were
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: also gonna be joined by by our resident doctor Dr.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Alan Zaro was gonna lay out one up with taxo plasmosis.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Recent episode called Hunting and Chains, we had on the
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: author and professor Scott Guiltner who authored a book Hunting
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: and Fishing in the New South. And then we're talking about,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: you know a lot about slavery, the hunting practices of slaves.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And I had pointed out in that conversation about how
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: during that at the time the Lewis and Clark expedition
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: um they had like a hundred hundred people roughly, they
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: had a slave with him name York. One slave they
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: brought along, one guy not on payroll, and uh, he
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: had had like interesting experiences along the way, no doubt.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And I was pointing out that afterward, Clark liberated him,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: emancipated him, game is, granted him his own freedom. One
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: of our contributors, Ben Long wrote, into those, uh A
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: bit more complicated than that. So Clark had received York
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: as a present as a child, so like you might
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: nowadays give you a kid, I don't know, a fit bit.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Back then he'd be like, here's a human being's yours
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: to do it as you please. And he kept this
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: human being um as his as his possession, and eventually
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: brought him with him. Um brought York his his property
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: on the expedition, and had, upon returning from the West,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: had said to York that he was gonna free him,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: give him his freedom, but he repeatedly reneged. York one
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: time pressed him on the deal, being like, hey, remember
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: how you were going to give you my freedom? And
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Clark punished him by separating him from his wife and
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: threatening to literally sell him down the river to a
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: hostile slaver in New Orleans. So when you hear the
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: expression he sold me down the river, what that means
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: is I don't I don't know how accurate is. But
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: when you hear the expression um, what it means is
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: that it would be that the further down in the
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Mississippi you got, the further into the Deep South, you
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: got the the the um treatment of slaves worsen. So
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: if you were like in Missouri, you know, I think
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Twain talks about this affair bit like if you were
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: in Missouri, um to get sold down the river, as
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that you'd be sold to a new owner deeper into
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the South where it was worse. So threatened to sell
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: him down to a hostile slaver in New Orleans. Clark
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: beat York severely for being soul in an insolent in
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: eight o nine, So five years after, I expecially saying
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: it was ten years, he got his freedom ten years later.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Stephen Ambrose, who kind of wrote one of the you know,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I guess the modern days definitive history of the Lewis
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: and Clark expedition, said quote, much of the evil of
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: slavery is encapsulated by this little story. This guy's talking
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: spencer telling people what your idea is. I would love
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: for us to have a Lewis and Clark expert on
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: the pod cast, but Steve Is has pushed back every
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: time I bring it up. Mm hmm. Why is that
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: A couple of things. What I'm saying earlier, I think
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: it's like a big government. Okay, you got little cruise, Okay.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: John Coulter was with the Lewis and Clark expedition. Okay,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: as they're coming back down the river, they almost get
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the they almost get to St. Louis, this harrowing years
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: long trip, and everyone was like, oh, I can't wait
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: to go home. John Colter runs into some trappers going
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: back up the river and turns around, doesn't even go
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to St. Louis, turns around, goes back up the river.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of guy I'm interested in. But I'm
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: interested in the little bands of mountain men in that era.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: But like the not to hack on government at all,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: but like a hundred guys edicts from the president. It's
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: just it's like, to me, it's not the kind of
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: swash buckling, rugged individual entrepreneurialism that inspires me, but those
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: sorts of fellas that you, like, you've covered dozens of
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: times over by now and still having given even a
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes segment of a podcast Lewis and Clark, Okay,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: they Steve's gonna sum it up right here. Let me
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: tell you the interesting things about it. Okay. That on
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: there to do list was to see if there's wooly
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: mammoth's Do you know that's true? Okay, that's interesting. Um
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: the only tribe they got to shootout with was are
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: you asking me? Mm hmmm, Sue. They got to shootout
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: with the black Feet, killed the black Feet warrior. Uh.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: They had an air rifle on that expedition. That's not
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: interesting to me. My kid, my eleven year old is
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: perked right up right now. The mention of air rivals. Okay, uh, yeah,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: they would get it out to impress people. Yea. They
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: had a repeating air rifle with like a compressor. There's
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: various parts about that are interesting. Have you been to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Pompey's Pillar. You can see Clark's name carving in the
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: rod for the longest time. They said it was the
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: only like physical evidence of the expedition. Yeah, and that's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: that's like another plus. We're doing a Lewis and Clark episode.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Those guys touched like fifteen to twenty states, so there's
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: like a lot of school children that have some connection
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: to Lewis and Clark. My favorite part about the story
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: is Clark's suicide. Mm hm which is only way later.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Why is that your favorite part? Because just how crazy
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: you went he was kind of that night was a nut.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: It was a crazy night, the night he killed himself. Yeah,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: you should say it from when we have the expert
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: on the show. Well if he doesn't know about that part,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: oh they will, you think, so that's wildly known. We
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: can we can play a little good cop bad cop
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: when you have this expert on and you can like
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: be like a mountain men And I'd be like, yeah, yeah,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: but this thing, I'll tell you another in another party,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: like about Lewis and Clark expedition. As they found they
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: were at a jump site, like a buffalo jump site,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: and the wolves were so gorged on meat from under
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the jump site. One of those two, Lewis or Clark
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: uh killed one with some kind of trek and pole.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Like Yanni, it sounds like you're talking yourself into it here,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: guy rode in. He was talking. We were talking about
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: finding Morrell's by a dumpster the dumpster patch. There's a
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: guy staying he's living in his camper for a few
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: months and he was parked at his friend's large shop
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that had RV hookups and sewage and whatnot says one
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: day he walked out to empty the black tank and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: lo and behold five morral's growing in a cluster of
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the game decaying leaves that had collected under the sewer line.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Think about that? Would you eat those? No? No morales
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: are like ecosystems, sponge ees. That's why, like or like
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: any mushroom in general, Like, there's there's a lot of
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: good mushroom picking to be had in highway ditches, but
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: those highway ditches are also sprayed with chemicals. So I
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: wouldn't recommend that you, like take home a bag of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: shaggy main mushrooms that you found at some intersection out
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: in the country. Why because they probably got dallas with
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: some chemicals. That's not gonna be what kills you. I
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: don't know. You're not gonna find so many shaggy main
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: mushrooms over the course of such a long period time
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: that you get enough toxins from herbicides to kill you.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: This is also kind of specific to shaggy mane because
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: they grow in like disturbed aty like soccer field. There's
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: images of them of shaggy man's pushing up through asphalt.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Whoa like you know where the asphalt kind of peters out,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: and this says it has been a sloppy job pushing
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: up most great mushroom way cool tastes like a sparag
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I just probably wouldn't take went home from like a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: soccer field or a dog park, or a sewage line
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: or that. What do you have eaten? The morales found
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: near the dumpster? Listen the dumpster morales weren't like they
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: just happen to buy the dumpster. It was like, yeah,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you don't think they were. They were like, you know,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: like feeding off of whatever had like you know, coincidental
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: leaked into the ground. How many yards are there for
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: that dumpster? Ten? It was this coincidental? Would you eat
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the sewage morales? Not that we've talked about it? Yes,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Are you honestly like a sewage morale? You like, are
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: you honestly is there ship like in those morales? Oh?
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It would be hard to hard to
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: eat now think about was there not pooping? Yeah? But
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: like I don't, I don't know, I don't know how
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Like are morels do they work like a plant in
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: other words, where they're sucking stuff up in like are
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: they using nutrients from the ship, like if you're spreading
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: manure on the field, or they actually like, well is
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be ship particles in it. It doesn't uptake,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: does uptake like it takes new It would uptake a
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: plant would uptake nutrients from the dukey, yes, not not
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: like yeah, but it's like that's everything. It's uptaking nutrients
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: from dead stuff. With the way Spencer made it sound
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: like ecosystems being seish, it makes it sound like I
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: found a squeeze the morale out. It be like a
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: bunch of ships. Spencer's confusing clams and morels. No morales. Also,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: they like to uh, they like to grow where they're
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: stressed out at. So maybe there's something in that sewage
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: line that really stressed him out that like how they
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: come up after a burn. Yeah, I never heard it
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: describe that when it's interesting. Yeah, they were like like
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: like a tree dying right like the trigger. Yeah, because
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the fruit we better get out of here. Maybe there
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: was something in that sewage line that that stressed him
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: out to get him to grow. Have you ever heard
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the word macro fructation? No, that's a that's a mushroom.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: It's like I might be pronouncing it wrong, but like
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: you know, the underground structure is the mycelium. When it
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: throws a like it's fruiting body, I believe it is
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: a macro fructation. So it's like some fact check. It's
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: like I'm about to die. I better reproduce there, you
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: get out of here. M hm. I don't think it's
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that simple, which I can see happening. If someone told
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: me you're gonna die tomorrow, you're gonna go repopulation, I'd
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: go all that fishing course. I feel like I'm gonna
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: take off early from work today. I just got some
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: terrible news. Head up to the lake. You're like, I
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I got, I'm gonna join that wall. I turned. Are you?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Are you finding my word? Macro fructation? Dude, we'll does
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: that have to trust you? Mac row fructation turns to frustration. Yeah,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I'm getting micro fracture. Why bones you know? As I'm
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: looking at it here the word I'm saying, I don't
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: even think it's a word. If we can't find anything,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: we can't prove you wrong. So how would I make
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: up a word like that? You can't even get it too,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Like you can't get where someone like misspelled something online. O, man,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I would not listen to me. Um, that's really embarrassing. Yeah,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: it's it's like one of the few things you can
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: type into your computer and get zero hits. You're not kidding.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I got zero hits when I typed in hard. Yeah,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I must be thinking of something different. I might be
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: thinking of absolutely nothing. I feel like you can slam
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: your fist down your keyboard and get results in whatever
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: you just tried. You guys, if anyone out there's mind reading,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: and if you need to name a movie or a
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: book and you don't want to have to do any
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: legal you don't want to do legal work into I
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: P and you're not stealing anything, call it macro froctation.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: You will have you will dominate search any of the
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: types of that word, and we'll find your book and
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: you can make it mean whatever you want. Yeah, it's
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: like that's a great thing for a whole media enterprise.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: You can probably get macro froctation dot com right now
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: for like nothing. No one's squatting on that that you
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: are l Why don't we slap that on a T shirt?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: And so I think, Yeah, I learned about macro Froctation
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: from the met Eater podcast. Yeah, I think that we
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: should started get a shirt, says macro Froctation. I'm gonna, man,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna uh uh. And I like how when
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: you were introducing that word, you like, you ever heard
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: of this? I don't know, to blow your mind? You
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: said no, I'm like, what idiot a macro fructations? God? Man,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I must have been reading the Old Book, Old wrong Book. Uh.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: A friend of ours and in a listener to the show,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Josh Coots wrote in something that uh, I was interesting.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: So he used to work at a guess ranch in
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Montana and he was the only hunter among the guest
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: service staff folks, so any questions that people had about
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: hunting would always be directed to him. On one occasion,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: he meets a guy from Colorado, a gas from Colorado
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: who had just completed Hunting Guide School, and Josh has
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: this guy told him something he'll never forget. He said
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: in Hunting Guide School there was a portion of the
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: curriculum designed to teach guides how to pack dead human
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: bodies out of the woods. Apparently this is Josh talking.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: There was such a high rate of heart attacks monks
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: out of shape. Guided elk hunters at the Guide School
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: developed protocols on how to get the bodies out of
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the woods most efficiently. The technique he described as brilliantly simple.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I'm curious if any of you have heard of this
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: or something similar. Okay, while the guy's fresh dead, so
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: let me you want to know. Should I stout now?
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I think please continue, because the level of detail here
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: is they don't wait till don't wait fresh dead before
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: rigger sets in. You drape the recently dead body over
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: a large downed log so that the dead person's belly
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: is on the log, leaving the legs and arms hanging
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: down approximately the same distance on both sides of the log.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Like picture you're watching the Western and a guy comes
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: in to collect the bounty. How he's got him tied
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: up there like that? You then wait till the body
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: goes into rigor and you have a couple of guys
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: lifted up and set it on a horse saddle with
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the belly in the saddle. Then you tie the wrist
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: of the ankles underneath the horse's belly. Makes for easy packing,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: he said. I suppose this could be considered a hot
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: tip that's like really like molding the body, you know, yeah,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: or did they train you up in that? I can't
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: say that's anything I've ever heard of. But again, like
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: the level of detail is so weird and it almost
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: has to be true, right, Like, but the concerning thing
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: is how many bodies were they dealing with to like
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: develop this system. Well, way back in a long ago
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: episode that we recorded in Arizona, um is either an
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Arizona or Sonora, I can't remember. Um, we had a
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: guy that a mountain lion biologist. Well, there's a houndsmen
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: that we're working with, a mountain laon biologist, and someone
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: got a negligent just charged a negligent It's like I'm
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: having a flexicle. They got a negligent spencer. What I pause,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: you say, say it negligent discharge of a tranquilizer gun,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: got shot by his own tranquilizer gun, killed him or
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: just knocked him out. He got up so bad, he
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: was in bad shape. The story went where he got shot,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I'm trying. The story went that he had they tranked
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: a lion and he and they don't want you don't
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: want the lion to fall out of the tree and
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: get hurt, and the lion fell asleep up in the tree,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: so he's going up to fetch it and then lower
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: it down. And also he realized that it's not trained,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: so someone's gonna send up loaded tranquil as they're going
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: on a rope. But the way they tied the thing
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: or whatever, soon as he put pressure on it, the
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: thing shot him. He gets on out of the tree
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: and then he's just gone. Meanwhile, the mountain lions up
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: there just laughing his ass off, and they packed him
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: out on a mule. They didn't know what to do. Well,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: that makes sense. I mean, it's not that the packing
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: out thing doesn't make sense. It's just all the little
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: steps that they developed to like get the body in
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: a certain position and before rigor and but they're packing
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: up a certain way. And the other part about the
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: story that could be is like it might be that
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: it's not like he's looking at the curriculum. Okay, you
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: know it's like Tuesday, eight day on breakfast, right and
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: then like at noon, you know, how to trust off
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: a person. It might be like that they're whatever. They're
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: sitting there having sandals, having lunch, and some guys like
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. I had a guy die one time,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: and here's what I did. By God, that's the way
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: to do if that happens you. So they might be
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: like that, not that, Um, what's on the schedule today? Yeah,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Chapter three, Section four. So it could be it was
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: just conveyed like that. Corey Calkins who works here at
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: me either he was a guide. How many former guides
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: around here? Many too many Minnesotans, too many former guides,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: A lot of guys. He was a big game guide
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: in fishing guy, he said before I start. So this
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Corey calkinstand before he worked for him the outfit he
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: guided for in the Bob Marshall Wilderness area, they had
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: to pack out a guy who died of a heart
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: attack in his sleep. They rolled him up like a
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: banana and a man te tarp and top packed him
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: for ten miles. Said they did not wait for rigor
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: to set in. He said, was just like packing out
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: a large wall tent or a fourteen foot and rs raft.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Talk about details. My friend ron Um got on his
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: marine radio, picked up a Mayda one time like an
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: s OS and went there in a commercial fishing vessel
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: had sunk where at at the mouth of at the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: mouth of Sand Bay out in Clarence straight in Alaska,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: went out there and found the body of the fisherman
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: and got him up on his landing craft and rolled
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: him up in a tarp. And he had a guy
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: with him that was very uneasy about. Didn't want to
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: like it, was uneasy about being on the boat with
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: that man. Later Ron went and found that man's um,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: you know, went through the work of trying to find
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: and contact that man's widow and give back, give her
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: back some of this dude's possessions. They have rolled him
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: up and Tark took him to town. She's Corey said
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: he else had another fellow died from dehydration. Oh yeah,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: almost lost another fellow from dehydration. Blacked out and fell
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: off his horse. Barely able to revive him because they
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: didn't have much water on hand. We draped him over
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: the lap of another mounted guide and they quickly trotted
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: a quarter m out to the nearest stream he came to,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: and they called life flight to get his ass out
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: of the wilderness. They kept the show rolling and the
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: guy was released from the hospital the next day. Yanni
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: someone asked Johnny the question he says, I never heard
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: of it. The only heart attack we had. The guy
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: survived and we drove him out of the woods on
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: a TV. That old guy like no, no, no no, no, no, no,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: wait till he dies and get a log. All right,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Now back to uh, toxoplasmosis, the latest wild game eating
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: disease that can happen to you. And to cover off
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: on toxoplasmosis, we're gonna we're talking about tricking noses from it,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: just because they sound very similar. And then we're gonna
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: talk to Danny Bolton, our survivor, a toxico survivor, and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: then we're gonna get some analysis from our resident physician,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Dr Allen Lazara, who you'll remember from our podcast episode
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Bleeding Out. And by our account so far, this is
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: just people calling in to admit it that episode to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: save four human lives. Four people have said that they
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: after listening to that, we're in a situation where they
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: had to apply a tourniquet and in the back of
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: their head was like, that's right there, guy, I was
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: just talking about that, And they did the tourniquet in
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: the right place, right pressure, saved lives. So he's a hero,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: an American hero coming right up in a minute. Here,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the hottest new disease. To get
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: the hottest new um wild game disease all the cool
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: kids got. I want to get toxo plasmosis. I don't
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: know how. I like, I went a million years that
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I ever hear in the toxoplasm It's like hip now toxoplasmosis,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: tox tox Yeah, like Mike Rule, like someone and his
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: family got tangled up with toxo plasmoses. I think it's
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: just related to people um eating more raw stuff all
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: the time. I don't know when I was a kid
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: knowing got it? Is that? Or like Spencer having a
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: million cats? You get it from cats? Yeah, I would
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: say it's less cool if you get it from like
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: a litter box. Is the same thing as cat scratch fever,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: isn't it? I think so? Dr Lazara is toxoplasmosis the
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: same thing as cat scratch fever. It's not. You're gonna
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: embarrass me. I believe cat scratches pastorrell I gotta look
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: that up, but not the same thing scratch. That's also
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: a nu jit song, right, Oh yeah, I'm singing it
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: right now, dud. That song is one of the greatest
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: man Why haven't we used that on the podot No,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: it's no, it's no stranglehold hold on like the second
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: best song. I gotta get in your toxico plasmos. It's
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: according to the Male Clinic, don't tell us about toxoplasm.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Most of you've got a whole bunch of experts here. Yeah,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: let's talk about about talking about you talking about hold on,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: listen up. It's a Bartonella infection. Bordadella pertussis. That's whooping cough.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Bartonella is cat scratch fever. It's a back here that
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: you get from having your skin scratch or you can
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: even be exposed to their they're dander in some ways
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: too so, but usually it's a scratch you get on
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: your arm, you get limph nodes up your arm um,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: and you get like a cellulitis. Spencer is not Spencer
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: shaking his head like he doesn't buy it, Okay, Steve.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Steve is the one that threw this whole thing off.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the Male Clinics website here. Why don't
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: you just go to new just website? Now, listen up,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: toxoplasmosa is usually occurs by eating undercooked, contaminated meat, exposure
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: from infected cat feces, or mother to child transmission during pregnancy.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: So this is the cat litter disease. That's why my body,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: that's why toxoplasmosis was such a big deal to my
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: body is because I think that his his wife got
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: it wild pregnant. Yeah, they caused a big scare. Yeah,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: no cats around pregnant women. You guys didn't get that.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: The doctor didn't say, do you have a cat in
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: the house? Man, So it's not cat scratch fever? Stroke mind, okay,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: cat litter fever. And so this one is so it's
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: not so cool anymore. You like those cats, don't. Spencer
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: is definitely gonna get it at some point. It's got
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: a cat, but he doesn't. The cat guy says, the
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: closet cat. Someone was asking, once you have trick and
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: this is the old fashioned thing you get once you
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: have trick a nosis, Can you now consume rare bear
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: meat with outside effects? They point out bears and ligons
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: do yeah to recap um. Uh. Trickon nosis is a
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: it's like a It's why your grandmas was worried about
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: cooking pork to what you know well done. Nothing's born
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: with trick. Aosis like trickin nosis is past from animal
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: to animal by eating infected meat. And there's these little
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: cysts in the meat. And when you eat the meat,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: your stomach acids dissolved that the shell of that cyst,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: and it liberates this little larva that's living inside there.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: And at larva, larvae, multiple larvae. How do you say that? Larvae?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Larvae they make love in your stomach and produce legions
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: of themselves and those burn go like out of your
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: digestive track into your bloodstream, scoot through your blood stream
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: and then and then burrow through the vascular walls and
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: get into your muscle tissue and then set a trap
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: for the next thing that eats it. Uh, we had
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: that one time. That's not a lot of fun. Uh
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: when I say we like a handful of us. No
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: one in this room though, right? No? Yeah. I even
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: had a shirt made trick, pause it said. But then
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: someone pointed out that there's a venereal disease people call
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: trick too, So I never wore that shirt. Now I
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: noticed on Instagram you said you smoked your bear sausage
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: to one fifty. But doesn't the f D a like change.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: The FDA changed their own rules and now if you
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: do suvied now it has to do with length of time.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: You could do one thirty five and the suvie if
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you hold it for X number hours. So I did.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I did one fifty, but held it. My life's in
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: your hands, Steve. I just ate like seven slices ye were, Yeah,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: it's it's Germaine because we just were eating black Bear
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: of summer sausage. Turned out good, though so delicious, did
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: thirty pounds of it? Good Smoke flavor did thirty pounds.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Uh didn't two batches and one of the batches you
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: could have had a batche that went to one sixty
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: because I got distracted on one of them and let
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: it go to one sixty. But yeah, that's all changed.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Clay Knukelem gonna give you earful about that. So we
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: went to We had an epidemiologist on quite a long
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: time ago. Do you remember the name of that episode
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: of KRIN. I highly advised people to go listen to it.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: We covered them dickens out of um food and pathogens
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: covered the dickens sicker than Hell episode tim slide, So
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: can you get it again? He goes on to say
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: some normal stuff that everybody knows. How now it's quite
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: rare and commercially raised pork. Trick nose is very rare
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: and commercially raised pork in the US. The condition is
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: still encountered in North America through other meats, especially game,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: potentially from imported pork. I remember reading that of the
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: trick and noses cases in this country are black bear
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: m when I was when I had it, I was
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: registered with the CDC because it's the CDC reportable disease.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: So I had to have a CDC representative come to
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: my house I had. They took a little chunk of
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: my bear meat larva per Graham or ounce or something
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: like that. Geez, yeah, they took it to a lab
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: in Atlanta. Well, it's funny. I think I've told this.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I'm can tell again. My brother was getting married and
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: he and you know how you have the pre dinner
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: for the wedding party. We were doing an all wild game,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: like what's that dinner called pot luck? No at a
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: wedding when the wedding party comes for the dinner. Now,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: so I smoked one of this bears hams for the
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: rehearsal dinner. But I smoked it plenty safe and I
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: told my brother, like, turns out the bear ham I
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: made that bear has larva program. I remember realizing whatever
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: it was, it had a half million per pound, which
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: you could assume most bears happened. Well, and I saw
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: a thing one time in two counties in Montana where
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: they were doing a study. One of the bears over
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: six years of age carry trick nosis. He said, well,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: don't tell anybody that, And I said, well, I can't
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: not tell him, And he said that don't bring it
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: because you could turn everybody off to the whole deal.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: This was a potlock. It sounds like it's a wild
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: game dinner. Um. So it goes on to say reinfection
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: challenges are probably not done anywhere, the rationale being that
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: anyone making the mistake of becoming infected with trick and
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Nella parasites once would not be likely to make the
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: same mistake a second time. So the vaccination is being
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: investigated as a means to acquire immunity. Yeah, you could
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: go get vaccinated and to start eating rare bear meat.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: You know, it makes it makes you think about your
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: potential exposure watching all those uh what's that Instagram page?
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: You like when you see deer eating dead stuff, squirrels
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: eating dead rabbits, Like, your potential exposure is probably more
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: than it's got to eat something that ate meat. They
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: had a case in a lask where guy's got it
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: from walrus, which I thought was strange. But the best
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: they can do with the vaccinations, it seems like, uh,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: it reduces the Triconella larval burden and muscle by about
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: so kind of like it doesn't even matter. Is better
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: protection and nothing, But it still means that the individual
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: who has been previously infected will probably still be vulnerable
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: the whole body infection following a second exposure to raw
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: or undercooked meat from bear bore rat et cetera. Cook
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: the meat sausages, et cetera to at least one sixty.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: But yeah, talked to they, that's old news. They changed it.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Do you ever notice now, Yeah, they just changed the rules.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: As for other animals, they too can't. They can't induce
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: suffer from this type of parasite that needs only the
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: single deterministic host each cycle. Even horses have been found
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: to be a trick and nella haven't eaten dead rats
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: minced up in their feed. I my first job and
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: our third team was washing dishes at kind of my
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: first formal job, like my first forty hour week job
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: was washing dishes at a summer camp called Camp Pendaluon
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: And we mixed the kool aid and garbage tubs and
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: all that food and going to big garbage cans leftovers
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: and a hog farmer to come every night and get it.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: And you used to be there, used to be commercial
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: like slop restaurant slop would make its way into the
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: commercial port production cycle and in all those rats and
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: mice eating that slop outside of Camp Pendaluan would wind
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: up getting fed to hogs. But now they have like
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: this whole closed system is why they got it out
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: of domestic pork. But a lot, a lot of stuff,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: like he says here, a lot of stuff ends up
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: in horse hay when it's getting bailed, like gets killed
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: while it's getting mode, then gets wrapped up in a bail.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: We used to find all the kinds of stuff, snakes,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: and we had a guy sending a picture that was
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: a vawn wrapped up in a bail I've seen that before.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: All right, Danny Bolton, we know Danny because we're just fling.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: We were filming in Hawaii. We hung out with Danny
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: uh and he was telling us that he was just
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: still recovering from a harrowing encountered with toxic plasmosis, Yes, sir,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: which he got off kind of off wild game. But first, Danny,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: tell everybody what you do for a living. This is
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: the kind of job that makes that makes me way
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: ask jealous, and I bet it makes everybody jealous. Yeah.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: So I did a lot of driving instructing and it's
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: turned into I have an off road driving background. I
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: used to race off road and I called my friends.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: They train a bunch of military special forces guys and
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: they had out in the desert for a week. And
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: so I've been working with them do a bunch of
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Air Force uh pjs and Navy Seals and a bunch
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: of other military and government programs and teaching them how
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: to baha, teach them how to drive off road, teach
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: them how to how do not break stuff if they
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: encounter certain obstacles, how to get over it and use
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: a winch. And it's for days, self supported, bring all
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: our own gas, all our own water. We camp out there. UM,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: teach them how to weld with car batteries, so in
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: case we break something needed weld something. Um, we can
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: do that out there. So yeah, it's it's a fun
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: job for sure. It's uh, it's good for the soul
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: because you feel like you're passing on that knowledge to
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: people who are actually going to use it. Now, could
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: a guy like me, I don't want to give people ideas,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: not like me? Could I go on that trip with
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: you sometimes? Yeah? So yeah, you got my number, Steve. Okay,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: we're hanging on Hawaii. You were still sick and you
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: were wondering what the hell had happened to you, And
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: while we were there, you found out. Now, tell the tell,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: the tell, your little saga. Start with what you were
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Start with your hunting trip. Okay, So I didn't find
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: out until like a week after you had left, which
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: had been like three weeks after being sick. So basically
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: what happened was is that you guys were coming out
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: and we were going to film that whole thing. I
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: knew we were gonna hunt goats, and then camp chef
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: had sent out that pellet grill, so I was like, okay, cool, um,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: maybe we could use this thing. And I was thinking, Okay,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna try and make some jerky on that thing.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: So I went and shot a goat about a week
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: before you guys were going to arrive. Explain what you
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: mean by a goat, Like you mean like a goat? Yeah,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: just a wild goat. Why is like lots of just
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: feral goats. He doesn't mean like a mountain goat or
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: an antelope. He means like a goat. Yeah, like they
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: call him Spanish goats or ibex um. They're not really
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: ibex but um Yeah, they're just feral fareral goats that
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: are all over the island. It's it's kind of like
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: white tail. I guess in the East you see them
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: pretty frequently. And you guys saw him just driving around
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: on the roads. You see him on the side of
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: the roads and like that. So I went hunting, got
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: got this goat, and I was like, kay, cool, I'm
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: gonna make some make some jerky on this this pellet
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: grill and see how that turns out. So I'm hanging
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: out with my friend Bart. We're cutting this goat meat
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: up into these like little nice, perfect basically like little
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: shushimi slices. You know. I was trying to cut it
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: as thin as possible so that it wasn't chewy. And
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: as we're cutting it, it just looks so beautiful. And
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: I know plenty of people who eat deer meat, and
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I've eaten elk meat raw, and I know you're not
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: supposed to eat pigs and bears raw, but I didn't.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't really put goats into that category, even though
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I get laughed at of friends now that are like, what,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you ate that raw, you know. So anyway,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: cutting this stuff up into these little slices for jerky,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: and I was like, man, let's get the soy sauce
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: and with sabie out and we'll just eat a couple
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: of these pieces, just like you would, you know, ah
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: hi's shashimi. So that's really where it came from with
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: eating it raw, and uh, I really we ate it.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: It was good, you know, with the soy sauce and
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: the sabi, it it kind of masks some of the
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: flavor because it's so strong, and it basically tasted like fish.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: It was a little bit more chewy, but it wasn't
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: as chew as you would think, So we ate it.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: I ate about four pieces, which is probably about a
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: little more in a tablespoon. And then my friend bart
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: same thing. He ate like four pieces. So we're like, okay, cool,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: you know. And my wife was there and I almost
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: wish he wasn't so she couldn't say this, But she's like, man,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: you guys shouldn't eat that. She's like looking at it
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: as like I don't know if i'd eat that, dude,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: that gives her a lifetime of material. Oh yeah, She's
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: like I told you, you know. And then my brother
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: in law comes up as well. You know. I feel
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: horrible about this because I kind of pure pressure at him.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, hey, come have a piece. He's like no, no, yeah,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: He's all no, no, I'm allergic to a sabi. And
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, no problem. I got apple cider
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: vinegar right here. I'll just douse it with that. So like,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I douse a piece with that and I give it
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: to him. So he eats one piece. I'm talking like
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: small little shashimi slice piece. It's okay, ate it done. Next.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: I kind of had in my head like who knows,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: like if I'm puking tonight. Whatever, I'll get it out
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: next day. I'm feeling fine, so I'm like, cool, you know,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I may I made it clear and uh. Then about
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: three days later, I got leg pains, kind of like
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: as if I ran a couple of miles the day before,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: you know. The next day, I was actually talked to you, Steve.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: That day, I talked to you on the phone before
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: you guys came out and I was headed out on
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the boat that day. I was starting to feel a
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: little weird, and then that evening I got body aches
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: real bad and I got chills. But the weird thing
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: about that day is I had bought some plate lunch
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: the day before, and I brought it with me to
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: take it with me fishing, and I threw it in
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: the dashboard of the truck and we ended up working
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and not going fishing until later in the afternoon. And
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't get to eat that like fried chicken until
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: like two o'clock in the afternoon after sat in the
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: dash So when I got sick that night, I was like, oh,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: that chicken was no good, you know, And it had like,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the mac salad with the tuna, and night
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: threw you off. That threw you off the trail, man,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: it threw me off the trail. So that night when
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: I got sick, I was like that that was no good.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I should definitely not have eaten that. After sat in
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: the dash, I thought I got sick from that. So
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: that next day I was body aches and over that
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: night to body aches and the chills. The chills are
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: probably the worst. And my skin was kind of sensitive
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: to and uh, just sensitive to temperature. You know, like
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: if my arm would be sticking out of the blanket,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: I would be like, oh, that's cold out there, you know,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I'd have to cover it up. And so, knowing that
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: we were going to be filming in two days, I
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna just I'm gonna lay here and
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: try to get better and just drink a bunch of
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: liquids and try to heal up. So I spent two
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: days in bed before you guys showed up, just feeling horrible.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: And then once we needed to start filming, and the
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: first the first couple of days of filming, I was
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: just on the camera boat. So I was taking Thailand
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: all and ad like. Once I started taking Thailand all
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: and advil, it was actually pretty manageable, and honestly, I've
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: never had Thailand all or adval work so good. Like
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: my body aches not completely disappeared, but from what they
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: were without the drugs. It took the body aches away
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: big time, and then the chills too. Once the drugs
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: started to wear off, Like at night, I tried not
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: use them because I didn't want to be overloading my
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: system with him, and then the body aches and chills
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: and stuff, it all kicked back in. Really at night
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: was the worst, and I was taking hot showers, like
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, like cooking hot showers.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: After those two days of filming, I got home one
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: day super I didn't take any Thailand or stuff because
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: I was gonna try wean off it. That night, you know,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: I started getting real hot feeling and almost like I
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: was gonna pass out. I got real bad cotton mouth,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: and I knew I had a temperature because I could
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: feel my body just cooking. Check my temperature, and that
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: baby went from it just went one hundred, one oh one,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: one oh two, one oh three, and it started creeping
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: up through like one or three point four, one or
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: three point five, and I just I just pulled it
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: out at that point, it wouldn't beat you know, like
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: you know, you stick it in it deeps, dude, this
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: thing was just going up and up and it was
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: in there for like five minutes. Started smoking, yeah, and
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, just get out of my mouth already, like
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: three point five one or three point five. I was like,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: let's just go. I needed little hospital because I got
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: this fever now, so I need to figure out what
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: the hell is wrong with me. So we went to
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: the hospital. I was telling him, hey, okay, the only
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: thing out of my ordinary day was I ate this
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: raw goat meat. At this point, it had been like
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: over a week ago, so he's asking me questions about it. Okay,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: you know, did you throw up? Uh, did you have diarrhea?
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: You know all these other questions. And since I didn't
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: have since I didn't, this is what I concluded was
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: since I didn't throw up and have diarrhea, he kind
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: of like blew it off. That's the way I took it.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: And UM didn't really test me for because I wanted
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: to get tested for all kinds of stuff right there.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was thinking trigonosis and um whatever
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: else you can get from raw goat meat. You know
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't really check me too much. Gets me the two
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: i VS. They took an X ray of my chest. Um,
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: they said my lungs had some a little bit of
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: inflammation and stuff, but nothing nothing major, so they gave
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: me the two i v s. Actually started feeling better
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: from the i VS and I got my temperature down
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: with some time. All they give me through the i
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: V and then sent me home that night. The next day,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling better and just still tired in. My body's
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: pretty much drained and muscles are sore, but other than that,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: I started feeling better, so we kept filming and um,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: two days later we were hunting goats. Remember I got
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: that text from my sister. I had to take gask
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: On to the hospital last night at like three in
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: the morning with chest pain, and because he was he
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: was sick for at that point like five days, but
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: then it got worse and you had this chest pain.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: So she takes him to the hospital. And I also
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: had like this chest pain when I was going through
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: my body aches, and especially had breathed in deep in
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: my back with her and then my lungs. It almost
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: make me want to cough a little bit. Um, I
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: just equated it with like body aches all over, you know.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: I was just miserable all over. But since he went
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: in with chest pain, the hospitals like, oh, we gotta
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: check you out, you know. So they do an X
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: ray and he's got heart in flamy nation like the
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: heart the heart stack, you know, there's a name for it,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: but that's inflamed. They think it's, uh, Bruce ella. That's
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: what they thought it was, so that's what they started
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: him on antibotics. So I'm like, perfect, They're going to
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: figure out what it is and then I'm going to
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: get the antibiotics for it. Since he was on those antibiotics,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: they kept him in the hospital for three days, same thing.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: He kind of naturally started filming better after three days
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: and they did the blood culture. They found out it
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: wasn't Bruce Ella, and he kind of naturally started getting better.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: So he he got at a hospital and then that's uh,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: that's as much as as far as the sickness went.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: It kind of drug on for a while. But after
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: we stopped filming Steve that after the day we finished
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: cooking at my house. That next day, I went in
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: and got tested for everything because I didn't know if
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: it was gonna last, you know, I was like, man,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: the thing is gonna flare back up. I gotta know
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: what the heck is going on with me. And I
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: had told him like, hey, I want to get tested
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: for everything that has to do with raw go meat.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: So that I go in and they poked both my arms.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: They feel like ten tubes up with blood. They give
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: me a urine sample I had to give them, and
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: then these three stool samples I had to do, and
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: so I was like perfect, but I was kind of
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: laughing because the day before we had eaten goat curry
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: and raw fish. That's all. That's all I ate that
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: day before. I was like, oh man, this thing is
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: gonna be laced with all kinds of goodies. So I
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: do the stool sample and uh, I don't know if
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: you've ever done those stool samples, but it's like the
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: two of them, it's got liquid in it already. Yeah
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: cowboy hand, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. So they give
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: you the plastic thing. You turned the plastic thing, but
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: it's not very deep, so you kind of gotta like
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: lift off to make sure you don't like stack it up,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: and you gotta let it drop in there, get them
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: all filled up by go return them. And at that point,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: all kinds of tests started coming back through my email,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, you know, I'm not a doctor,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: like all these checking all these proteins and all this stuff,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: so I didn't really no. But then the toxico plasmosis
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: one came up and it says it didn't tell me yet,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: but I got the result. What it says is it's
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: got these ranges that you're supposed to be in, and
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: it says anything under eight is negative, from eight to
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: ten is normal, and then anything above ten is positive.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: And mine came back at nine three point six. So
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that that looks about right. I
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: think that's what it is. That's gotta be that's gotta
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: be it. So yeah, that's when that's when I found out.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: And that wasn't until like a week after you guys
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: had left, which has been like three weeks. And then
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: telling people about it. My one friends like oh, Joe
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Rogan had somebody on and they talked about it for
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: like twenty minutes and listen to that and there's some
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: crazy stuff, you know. That's when I found out about
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: the whole cats and how it breeds in cats or
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: whatever and that's where it comes from. And then they
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: poop and the goat must have ate some grass that
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: the cat poop was on or something, you know. But
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: here's the crazy thing too, is that my I was
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: telling my uncle about it and he was talking about
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: these fever dreams um and I remember I was like, oh, man,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: when I was sick, because like I said that the
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: nights were worse. I was having these dreams that I
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: had these leopard spots all over me and they were
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: like illuminating on the spark on the muscles that were
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: in pain, like my legs and stuff, and I'm tripping out.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: I'd wake up. I'd be like, old, that was weird,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: you know, go pee or something, and when I go
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: laid back down, I'd go right back into that same dream.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: And that happened for two nights. Yeah, I went like
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: in the peak of being sick, so I was tripping out.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: And then when I found out about this thing coming
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: from cats and then having these leopard spot dreams, I
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: was I was tripping. Dude, that's cat scratch fever right there.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: What he said, scratch fever, Dude, doctors are layout the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: situation on toxic plasmosis. So just to preface this with, um,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: so I'm an e ER doctor and definitely not a
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: I D. Doctor. But one thing that your doctors are
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: really good at is it we know a little bit
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: about a lot of things, and we're super good at
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: looking things up really quickly to sound smart and confident. So, um,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what I mean. This is like medical
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: school stuff. You never go say like, hey, I was
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: just looking it up. Oh you call you guys coming
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: and act like you knew all along. You're like, I'll
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: be I'll be right back, and it's like, you know,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: he's going out to google it. He's gonna come back
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: and act like he knew. I've had a minute to
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: think about this. It's not just the are doctors, it's
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: all doctors are doing that, all right, So Google is amazing, right,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, so here's the thing is that
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: So just so you don't think that all doctors are
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: just using the Internet. But it's like your peripheral brain,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: it's there, you know what it is. And I can
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: go through Wikipedia, which is a wonderful resource. You can
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: go through it and you go like, oh, I remember
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: that medical school. I remember that part um, So you're
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: not just you know, doing it day novo, You're just
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: recharging your brain. So I gotta I gotta tell you.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something. Alan. Yeah, when I had
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: trick nosis, I had already spoken with the state epidemiologist
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: in Alaska. I had already gone down and told him
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: how I was real sick. And I think that I
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: knew what I had. They sent me home not believing me.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: M hm. My brother had gone was like go beer
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: drinking with the state epidemiologist in Alaska. He's like, we'll
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: call him. I called him and they do with a
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: lot it up there because they're eating a lot of
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: bear meat. Yeah, I call him like it was a
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: month ago for of us all got it. We were
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: eating rare bear meat. He's like, you have tricked noses.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Go back down to the doctor, tell him to call me.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: I'm waiting for his call. Yeah. I go down. I said, listen, man,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not here to like tell you a bunch of
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: ship about what's going on. Me. Yeah, Caul this number.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: He looked at me like I'm nuts. He goes, well,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: I'm here with you, and he's way up there and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, just call the guy. So he eventually agrees
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: to call him, but won't call him in my presence,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: no leaves the room. I know he would and call him,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: comes back and goes. As soon as you have trick noses,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: I'm like Dank's buddy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's a little
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: bit of hubris to have to I learned that early
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: on in my career. If some a family member comes
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: in as like I need you to call so and so,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: you call that person because otherwise you and if you're
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: because if you're wrong, then you're an ass, you know
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like you're in a big amount of trouble.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: So it's always better to take all the input and
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: just be like, okay, will you know, let's listen and
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: get all the points. But yeah, that's a that's a
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: common thing. So I'm glad he listened to you or
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: your your friend. So um so toxo um toxoplasmosis. Uh.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: It's an obligate inter cellular protozoan organism. So it's a small,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: single celled, microscopic animal which includes things like amba's and
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: spore zones and other different forms. It's a parasite and
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: the they say, the obligate UM like end of the
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: line host is the cat. So, uh, the cat will
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: get this in its gut, it will poop it out,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: and small animals like birds and rodents will somehow get
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: the feces from eating whatever's on the ground. You say,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: I mean it has to go through a cat. It
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: has to be in the cat ultimately, Yeah, to to
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: be able to replicate um in. Uh. It's like spreading form.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: It wants to get into the cat to to to
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: humanize it or two anthropomorphizes the single celled organism. It
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: wants to be in the cat's gut and it wants
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: to get pooped out to spread. Hey, Alan, Alan, are
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: we talking just domestic cats or could we be talking
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: about you know, bobcats or mountain lions? Do you know?
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but if I had to make a guess,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: I'd probably say all felines because it says UM from
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: the CDC website. It says from the family Fela day
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: So uh so domestic cats and their relatives, So I
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: presume bobcats is probably I mean they're part of the
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: feeline family. Yeah. I read that leopards and stuff can
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: have it and other cats. Yeah, and how things evolved. So, Danny,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about? That that guy that um you
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: watch on Joe Rogan, he had a lot of really
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: interesting things to say. He was like, I don't know
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: if he's epidemiologist or i D doc or what, but
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: he went to a lot of detail about this uh
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: parasitic relationship and how things evolved together. Um, it's so
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: complicated over millennia, like how and why it shows the
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: cat not sure, but anyway, so it can also get
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: into domestic animals like pigs and sheep. Um. Ultimately, humans
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: get it from either eating undercooked raw meat UH containing
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: the cists or drinking water or eating domestic animals that
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: have been exposed to it. One of the two guys
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: point before you can get it from handling a cat
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: litter box. Um. And like when we had kids, I
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: love domestic animals, but we got rid of our cats.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: We adopted them out whatever the term is, gave them
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: away to somebody else because I didn't want to I
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: didn't want to expose my wife and I also didn't
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: want to do the litter box for the next like
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: five years. So it was like time for the cats
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: to go. There's a way out, buddy. Yeah, I gotta
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: get rid of the cat. Yeah, for sure, it's not
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: worth it. So it's that it's that a cat, So
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure I'm getting this. Like it's
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: in the cat as to go through the cat. It's
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: in the cat's gut, it's in the cats ship. But
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: a go has to eat something laying on catship or
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: the cat poop is in the soil, and the cysts
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: are in the soil. So the when the cat poops,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: these o sis, which are not um like spirelated or
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: active infective cysts, come out into the poop and then
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: they mature in the ground and then they become effective
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: over like a couple of days. And then the rodents
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: or birds come by and consume whatever is on the ground,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: and then they become infected, and then the cat will
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: eat those rodents and birds, and then the cycle continues.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Um and if a human steps in there somewhere eats
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: the bird, or you know, drops their granola bar on
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: the ground when they're hiking or something like that. But
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: you know, we're exposed to all sorts of pathogens when
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: we're walking around all day long. I mean, if you
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: guys ever, that's a tangent. But the War of the worlds,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean the like how the aliens ultimately
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: get defeated because of like the bacteria that they can't handle.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: But we're exposed to it all the time, you know,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: We're exposed to bacteria, viruses, pathogens on the daily and
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: wars and wells, the aliens and the oars and wells
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: that they catch a colden. I'm pretty sure, right, remember
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: what was that? What was that? What was that alien
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: invasion movie where they realized that yodeling kills them. They
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: would play Slim Whitman's play Slim Whitman's Indian love call
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: to kill him, that this can't be real, no Mars attacks. Oh,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: realized that Slim Slim Whitman music would kill him in
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: the ring? Isn't it water that does the tricks? Signs? Signs?
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Is the water? Yeah? Yeah, it was um calling you
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: that's a great yeah. So uh so, So back to trichinosis.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: So somebody was saying earlier, Um, I can't remember who
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: said it, but like, what's the prevalence or like how
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: many people have been infected by They think that the
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: serial prevalence in the United States is about twenty um.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: But it varies throughout the world, and in particularly it
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: varies in in societies and countries that have less stringent
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: you know, food safety practices, less um clean water, etcetera.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: So in countries in South America, like in Brazil, they
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: think about sevent people have been exposed to toxoplasmosis is
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: just have it in the yeah, so, but he's still
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: the United States, it's still pretty high. When I was
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: going through the trick gnosis thing, I had a call
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: with someone who had been in the Peace Corps. She
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: had been a doctor with the Peace Corps MHM, and
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: she told me that in a lot of villages when
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: they would go into the congo, they would just come
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: in and without asking anyone about symptomology, and they would
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: come in and and deworm everybody. It was just understood
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: that they were It was just understood that they were there.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: They were carriers and probably stuff ring that it was.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: It was, it was pervasive. I think that we as
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: a society don't have as much of an understanding of
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: how different things were like a hundred years ago or
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: two d years ago, and we didn't have indoor plumbing,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: and we didn't have water treatment plants, etcetera. Like, the
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: biggest movements forward in increasing human lifespan have been in
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: the structural implements in society like indoor plumbing, clean water,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: the development of antibiotics, like all these things have increased
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: our lifespans by years because infectious disease was the number
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: one killer UM in UH in humans up until the
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: advent of antibiotics, and then I think trauma as well.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: But anyway, so yeah, I would you know, people are
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: pooping where they're eating pretty much in close proximity, so um,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: and that's just an unfortunate thing. But you know, I
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: really appreciate my toilet. So yeah, so I did have
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: the state department had to call me and because they
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: got reported that I had toxo pasmosis, I don't how
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: to do this whole report with the department Department of Health.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: And they did the whole report and then I asked her.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: I was like, hey, how common is this? You know?
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: And she didn't have numbers super recent, but she had
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, there were seven cases on just Our Island.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Two seventeen there's four cases. Two thousand sixteen, there was
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: eleven cases on just Our island of toxo pasmosis. She
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: she didn't say how they got it. You know, it
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: could have just been someone with dirty hands preparing food
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: or something. But yeah, um, but I was the first
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: case this year. Just like, you know, congratulations. One last
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: thing about taxos, so it should be it should be
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: said most people who contracted have like nine percent of
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: people have no symptoms. And Danny's unique because he has this,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: he probably would have had. They say, it's an acute
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: self limited infection and like a healthy host. And the
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: most common clinical presentation is people developed lymph nodes in
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: their neck that are non tender and they're large on
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: both sides. And then people get these my allergies or
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: body aches, fever, sweating, headaches, sometimes a rash, but most
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: people have no symptoms and it passes without any problem.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: The people that you really worry about are pregnant women
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: and immune compromise people, so people who have HIV, people
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: who are really unhealthy, cancer, rheumatory atritists, etcetera. Um, those people,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: they're most common presentation aside from pregnant women have central
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: nervous system symptoms where the taxos in their brain and
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: they end up showing up with like seizures in uh
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: focal neurodeficits and headaches and stuff, and it's it's really
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: scary for them. They'll have to be on treatment for
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: the rest of their life if they survived the the
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: illness initially. So, Danny, I got one last question for you. Yeah, buddy,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: do you you don't have a cat? Right? No cats? Dude?
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: So you weren't like screwing around the litter box or something, Dude,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: I was not. I call it catch it itis, dude.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: That's what I've been calling this scene. The goat the
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: goats disease or cash it itis. All. Thanks a lot, man,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on. When when you come to next
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: time you're in the US, will have we'll come down
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: and talk spear fishing. Sorry, you know the mainland. Yeah,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: I'll bring the goat state and all that garbage. Listen, man,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: my flanks last state stars on it mainland. All right,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: All know what what we guys? You want to ask
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: you question? This is for Yanni because Yanni has been
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: wanting to have uh some some information about when you're
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: shooting guns in your ears go bad over time. So
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: we're shooting experiment with different suppressors the other day and
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: it kind of led to this conversation about what exactly
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: is going on in your ears when you shoot guns
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: a lot? And can you explain what happens? Like I
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: had someone Clay nucom uh recently gave this to me
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: by shooting too close to my ear. When someone shoots
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: real close to your ear, like in a duck blind
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and all of a sudden you get that WHOA,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: what has happened to your ear? So, um, this is
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: a really interesting question and very relevant for everybody. Uh
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: they're not, you know, listening to podcast. So what happens
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: is when a gun goes off, there is a sound
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: wave or an explosion, and a sound wave that slams
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: into your um tympanic membrane, which is in your middle ear.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: So the ear's broken into three pieces. There's the outer ear,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: this part you can touch on the side you had
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: called a pinna your ear canal bugs get stuck in there,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: the middle ear, which is your tympanic membrane, and then
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: the osticle chain of these tiny bones which are the
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: tiniest in your body that then vibrate and touch the
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: inner ear in the interer ear, there's a structure called
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: the cochlea UM and the semi circular canals. The cochlea
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: is what processes that sound wave and those vibrations into
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: electrical signals going down the vestibular cocular nerve into your
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: brain into like your temporal prietal lobe, and then you
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: perceive sound or you hear um. And so when you
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: hear that ringing, that ringing is called tinatus or some
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: people say tenitus um. Tintus is the perception of um,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: the perception of sound in the absence of external auditory stimulus.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: So you're hearing something that's not necessarily there. So the
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: sound wave has gone away, but you're still hearing that
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: ringing UM. And so tinatus can be temporary or permanent,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: especially if people are exposed to a lot of like
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: you know, uh, significant high end noise. But it can also,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: I was reading, can happen from like explosions UM and
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: a single you know experience where somebody gets a super
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: high amount of decibels or they you know, they blow
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: their ear drum UM. So that tinaedus is essentially the
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: little hairs inside the cochlea that that are vibrating back
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: and forth and and translating that vibration of the sound
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: wave of intelectrical signals. It's those little hairs that are
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: dying um and or being overly stimulated. So like I
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: remember going to a concerts when I was younger, and
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't wear any ear protection at all, and I
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: would walk out of the concert and all I had
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: for two or three hours was that tinatus or that
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: ringing in my ears. Thankfully it went away, But after,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: you know, learning in medical school, I realized that my
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: inner ear was essentially dying after going to like a
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: rock concert, so I started wearing earplugs. Um So that's
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: pretty much it. Well, why is it that now? And
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: then you'll be laying in bed like this happens to
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: me now, laying in bed, and all of a sudden,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: there it is right. And at first you look around
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: the house, do you think something in the house is
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: going on? Like, it's not related to someone blasting a
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: gun off next your head. Sure, So when you get
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: exposed to h loud noises um So noises are rated
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: in decibels um and the threshold of pain the scale
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: goes from zero to a hundred forty forty is like
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: the threshold of pain for a human. A shotgun blast
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: is around at but you know, different kinds of guns
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: with shorter barrels and bigger barrels can be louder than that. UM.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: When you get exposed to high decibel sounds, you can
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: have permanent damage to those co Clear nerve cells. And
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: why it all of a sudden ticks off in the
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: middle of night, I'm not really sure. But all of us,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: because of the way we live with our ear earbuds
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: and the stuff we're exposed to in our jobs and
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: your advocational things with shooting, we all probably have some
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: degree of co clear hair cell damage. UM. And the
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: cells that are taking the signal from the hairs also
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: get damaged, and so they can get extra excited even
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: without stimulation, and so they just they just fire off.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: And that's the tindatus that's happening. UM. And they say
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: I was reading before that most tinadas will self resolve
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: on its own. UM. I think between like twenty resolves
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: on its own. So it's hard to you know, it's
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: not really a very well treatable thing. A lot of
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: people struggle with depression from it or feel like they're
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: going crazy. They've even associated tendais with suicides, um depression, anxiety,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: sleep disorders because it's extremely disturbing. Like, most people don't
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: care as much about losing their hearing, but they care
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: a lot about having tinatus that's chronically happening because it's
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: it's so disturbing. So once hair inner ear hair cells
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: have been killed, there's no regeneration of anything, right, So
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: it's like ten shotgun blast near my head will produce
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: x amount of damage and that's it, and then it'll
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: just it's kind of a downward spiral. Yeah. Humans, So
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: I read somewhere else that humans don't regenerate those cells
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: as well as like other animals do. But most animals
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: aren't exposed to super high noises like we are in
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: the same same way either, But humans are unique in
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: the sense that we don't we don't really regenerate those cells. Ironically,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: everybody ends up losing some of their hearing as they age.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: It's called presbycusis. And when Steville, you guys will all
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: appreciate this, but they say that men tend to lose
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: the higher pitched sounds and women tend to lose the
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: lower pitch sounds. So as we age. Essentially we are
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: like our partners over time. What did you say already? Yeah,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: I think we all do in some ways. Yeah, so,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: but yeah, the cells don't. I sent Currents some pictures
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: and it kind of looks like a um, you know,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: like somebody smushed a bunch of little tiny fingers down
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: and like a bomb went off, you know, in these
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: electron microscope photographs. So yeah, and one other thing I read.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: So one other thing I read. So I pulled up
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: a couple of studies in UM and one of these
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: studies was based in Greece, and they looked at like
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: a hundred military guys that have been exposed to gunfire
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: anywhere from like one to a thousand rounds light versus
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: heavy heavy arms, and they had most of the patients
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: in the study were right handed. They're like nine of
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: them were right handed. And they found that most of
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: the most of the tenais that people were experiencing was
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: in their left ear. So if you're you know, if
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: you're a right handed shooter, you've got your right ear
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: down on your shoulder, down on the butt of the gun.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: Your left ear is more exposed to that sound wave.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: So they're thinking that like the right ears protected, and
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: I like the term. They call it an acoustic shadow
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: next to your shoulders, so you're right ear is more
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: protected than your left. I thought that was an interesting fact.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: And when I when I went to an audiologist and
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: he was looking at what ear, I can't hember what
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: it was because I'm left handed. Anyways, he was puzzled
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: by the fact that the ear that I had damaged
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: was the one I had damaged until he realized that
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: I was left handed. He's like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: He's like, normally we see this in people's whatever the
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: hell are here left ear? Yeah, I guess, yet another
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: unique thing. So the degree of tenadus doesn't always associate
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: with the amount of like hearing impairments, So you can
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: have like still pretty good hearing and still have still
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: be uh, you know, a victim of this tenadus. And
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: one of the thing I read, one of the most
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: common injuries are The most common injury in the Iraq
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: War was ear injuries because of the soldiers being exposed
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: to you know, gunfire and loud noises, um. And it's
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: quite common in the general population as well, about like
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty people per a hundred thousand people
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: experienced tentatives, so it's fairly common. Got it. The last
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: thing I found was UM. I found an article from
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: American Speech and Language Association on suppressors. I know, you
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: guys are talking about earlier, and they were just talking
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: about hearing protection and saying that you know, even though
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: you put a suppressor on your firearm, you should still
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: be wearing UM ear protection because the suppression only drops
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: the noise level by like twenty to thirty decibels UM.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: And so you know, if some of these firearms are
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: producing sounds greater than a hundred forty, then you're still
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: in a fairly loud sound rage like operating heavy machinery
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: or at a nightclub, basically on the decibel scale. Yeah,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: a guy was telling us that most suppressors that you
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: want to make sure a suppressor puts you down, they
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: go by Ocean standards. You can get a suppressor that
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: will put you down below what OSHA would recommend for
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: hearing protection, but I don't know why the hell you
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: would just leave him on anyways. Yeah, so the Ocean standards,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: I looked those up to. The Ocean standards are based
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: off of not only the amount of decibels, but also
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: the amount of time that you're exposed to those decibels.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: So like they would say a worker can be exposed
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: to uh, you know, ninety decibels for four hours um
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: or I don't know the exact amount, but you know,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: so it's it's also time time rated as well. So
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: but probably for anybody using suppressor, I think it's probably
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: still a good idea to put some amount of ear
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: protection on if you shoot a lot. So let's talk
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: about when you guys are gonna get you guys should
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: get a T shirt for a number of lives meat
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: eater saved with the turniquets. Right, Oh, we're up to
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: we got a new one. I think how many? But
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: his life wasn't he was? It doesn't kind of a
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: life save. It's like an arm saved. He could have
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: bled out. But yeah, you guys could have like a
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: ticker like three and counting and one arm and counting. Yeah,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: for sure. Then you know we have this as you know,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: and I'll point this out to people too. We have
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: a audio um, we have an audio original book coming
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: out with Random House. And in this yeah, well yeah,
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: because in this project, we hear a very elaborate story.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: Listeners will hear a very elaborate story about a man
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: who him and his father were hunting. His father got
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: shot by a dog, and this guy was seriously at
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: risk of dying. Recalled hearing a podcast in which someone
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: explained how to put a tourniquet, and he remembers how
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about the tightness saved his old man's life.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: And then later when he had meant to think about it,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: realized it was here in Dr Lazara on the Mediator
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: podcast and that was like the third life you'd save.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: These people shall all be sending you money? Man? No, No,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: that's all. It's all good, smarty. I think you know,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: I think that. Um. I was looking last night for
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: a video on your Instagram because Karna told me about
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: something about a deer with a bunch of puss and
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: its belly. But I was looking and I stumbled across
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: a video of you cutting your ingrown toenail out, and
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: I said that it had about five thousand views. The
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: video killed. I said, what an amount of influence you
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: have if you can do self grooming and people watch
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: that to such a degree. But also to comment on
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: the fact that to use that influence in such a
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: way to put out great messages about conservation or health
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: or safety. I mean it's a tremendous service, I think
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: to two people. And it's also, you know, really entertaining.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: I'm obviously biased, but like you know, it's a great thing.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: You know, it's good Samaritan stuff. It's amazing. So no money,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: just good Samaritan stuff. I appreciate you saying that. Man,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: I did that toe surgery yesterday on a zoom call,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: but I just kept my foot down below though it
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: was like, what's his name? Who's the new arcor right? Yeah,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna say that's uh, what's that guy? Yeah,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: it's like Jeffrey Tuban. But was it my toe doing
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: my toe surgery? But I kept my toe down low?
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: That's good sight, that's good people like you did a
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: toe surgery? What's he doing down there? What's he doing
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: on anyway? He must be working on his toe. You're
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: probably the only person to do that. The latest news
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: it's gonna break. And the wildest part is that the
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: caption was like do you want to see more of
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: this content? And it was a resounding yes. I know.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: If I just gotta think of more. I mean, I
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: could just do the same surgery over and over again,
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: but I can't think of more, Doctor Lazarre, thanks for
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: joining us. Man. Tell everybody where you work so if
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: they get hurt, they can come to the right hospital.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so. I work at Henry Ford Allegiance in Jackson, Michigan.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: I work for a company, small democratic group called I E.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: P and Um. Yeah, we love taking care of patients.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: And you know we're there always in the middle of
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: the night, every holiday, every weekend. So that's what we
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: signed up for. So you're you're so if someone is
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: going to get hurt this, you get hurt at night
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: because they're gonna find you down there at night. Yeah. Well,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: I mean the E R is open. The R is
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: open seven. I think it's like US, walmart Um and
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: Taco Bell. I think are like seven operations that we
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: have in our society. So alright, so arry at ladies, gentlemen,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: if you get hurt in Jackson, make sure to go
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: to that place Jackson, Michigan, go to that place and
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: you can shoot the breeze with Dr Lazara. Well he
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: fixes up. Thanks so much for having you guys. Thanks mans,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: all right, I want to hit on this audio project
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: for a minute. Um, it's available, it's coming out soon.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: It's available available for pre order. I'm gonna tell people
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: how I described it. I put a thing on Instagram
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: about it which sums it up pretty good. You did
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: a great job. No, we worked our We've been working
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: our corn is off on this thing. Still are still
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: wrapping up the finishing touches. So okay, Well, here's I
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: wrote on Instagram about it. Listeners of the Meat Eater
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: podcast might remember our Meat Tree episodes where we told
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: the story of a mightily close encounter with a round
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: bear on Alaska's a fog Neck Island. This very podcast
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: told that story. Ultimately, that experience inspired this immersive audio
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: book with Random House. By immersive, we mean I hesitated
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: to say this because you might get the wrong idea.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: There's there's a soundscape, there's like supporting sound, and there's
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: music and stuff, but there's supporting sound and kind of
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: like it's immersive. It's I don't know. I think everybody
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: shocked at how good it turned out. I don't know
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be this good. Yeah. It was started because
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: we found the most craziest people with the craziest stories.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: It's six hours long, includes sixteen tales of harrowing close
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: calls in the wild, told by the people themselves. A
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: game ward and almost gunned down by an oozy wielding,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: sociopathic elk poacher, a spear fisherman trapped in an underwater cave,
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: a pheasant hunter shot by a dog, a peacock bass
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: fisherman who inadvertently gets tangled up with a drug cartel.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: A fishing guy who saves the life of a boy
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: whose father had written him off for dead. That being
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: none other than Brodie Henderson. Brodie Henderson walking around all
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: the time, was sitting on this like very traumatic story
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: about a boy he saved. We got Seth in there too.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: Seth's in there. I get to him in a minute.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: A fishing guy who saves the life of a boy
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: whose father had written him off for dead. And a
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: wild land firefighter who's forced to reckon with the idea
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: of his last day on Earth. Yep, we're sitting among giants,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: flip flop plesher. What's a spoiler alert? It wasn't his
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: last day on Earth, since he's sitting here, am I said?
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: Forced to reckon? With you try to sell the book
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: or not. That's how Seth died. To go on along
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: the way, I explore the unique aspects of human psychology
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: and physiology that emerge that emerge during these brushes with death,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: and seek to answer the question of why close calls
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: in the wild have a way of haunting us for
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: the rest of our lives. I've always been a big
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: fan of paradoxical undressing, which happens to you doing hypothermia
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: or liket like it's a it's an unnerving idea. But
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: in this one and are in the hypothermia story. In
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: this book of a Caribou Guide, we explore terminal burrowing.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: It's kind of a nasty little description. Some people when
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: they're suffering hypothermia get the idea that they're gonna dig
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: a hole and climb into the hole to warm up,
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: often digging their own grave. It's good, It's very good.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: I was playing We're going Through and just doing final listens,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: and I was driving driving down the road listening to
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: edits with my wife and and there were four times
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: just the short time we were listening to things, four times,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: including doing Brody story where she did all she did,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: she did one of these noises. She went, um, I
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: can't quite do it would be like, huh no, do
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: one like a like a shocked noise crin No more
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: than that way more No, it was like tim ellen
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: whatever that she did an nooise like this, I should
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: get her to come down here and do it. She
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: did annoise like it was like this, like it was
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: conveyed this message. Oh my god, oh my god, yeah
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: got it. Yeah. Basically just like my wife like, oh
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: my god, without the words it's good, like it's it's listen.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: This is one of the proudest things. Uh. We don't
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: celebrate a lot of stuff around here, but I'm setting
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: up a dinner for the for the bazillion people involved
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: in that project. It's it's one of the great I
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: think it's one of the coolest things we've ever made.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: And it'll I think, very much appeal to people. It's
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: not just for hunters and fishermen. It like, no, dudes,
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: there's a skier in it who wrote eighteen who wrote
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: an avalanche for eight hundred feet yep, mountaineer, mountaineering, just
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: game wardening. Yeah, ye, my my wife really likes the
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: show Hoarders. Are you familiar with that. I know that
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: there's a show called Hoarders. Yeah, it's like where where
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: these people have an extreme hoarding problem. We bring us
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: back to this audience. Now it's come there for I
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: do know about this show. I haven't seen any episodes.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: If you're not familiar. These folks fill their house with
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: just trash, literal trash from Florida ceiling, and then they
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: bring in these experts to help them expert clean up
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: their house. Yeah, there's hoarding experts to help them clean
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: up their house, because not as a dude with a dumpster.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: There's a dude with a dumpster, and then there's also
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: the expert that helps them. Oh psychologically, yeah, I can't
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: watch the show. There's two much dread and too much
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: anxiety with that show, and there's just no payoff and
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: it's like I need to walk out of the room.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: If my wife is watching Hoarders. You get a little
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: bit of that with these interviews, like it approaches that
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: line of giving you some anxiety and some dread, but
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: it's still like wildly entertaining. There's still a payoff and
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: it's it's like one of the most fun things to
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: listen to. Oh, there's also story speaking not all hunting fishing.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: There's a story about going to the old hot springs,
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: just a just a nice day having a warm dip.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: What could possibly go wrong having a warm dip with
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: the hot spring? It's good. Okay, it's all you can
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: it's coming out, but you just like get it. Now.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing. It's a it's an audiobook, so it
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: just it just you know, you don't need to wait
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: for to come in the mail. But it's good for us.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: We just go preorder the damn thing. Yep. Um. You
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: can go to audible Amazon. Yeah, you go to Amazon
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: dot com and go to audible. I think audible is
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: owned by Amazon and find it. It's called Meat Eaters
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: Can't Fire stories. Close calls, Close calls. It's all close calls.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: Should we point out that we're hoping there's going to
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: be a volume two if everything goes well. Yeah, and
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: then and then that'll give everybody, let's listen, and chance
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: to let us know about the cast. They'll get casted
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: cast into it. Uh. Speaking of books, when we are
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: our recent episode just came out a couple weeks called
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: we Don't Hadden Me. The other day, speaking of doing
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: the audiobook. Um, someone tried to sabotage the project. I
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: think competitors, competitors in the audio space, because we were
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: recording some final pickup lines. Okay, and Nick, who works here,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: hands me a fudge sickle which I take into the
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: studio and I'm looking on this fipe sickle trying to
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: do the lines. Sounds like this rude life flash before. Yeah,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: we had to like finish the fudge cycle and come
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: back in and redo the whole thing all over again
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: because it was like fudge stacleized in hunt. In the
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: Hunting and Chains episode, we're talking about out of print
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: books and now something. There's this book I love by
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: a writer, Duncan Gil Chris. He was he's like he's
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: a writer. He Duncan Gil Chris was an outdoor writer
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: who would publish his own books. And he accidentally wrote
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: like Hemingway, like very very simple clean lessons. He was sentences.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: He was a bush pilot. He was a guy in Alaska.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: He's a hunt New Zealand, hunted over place very like
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: d I y um alpine hunting. And he kind of
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: put all of his thoughts and in and approaches and
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: tips and tricks in a book to call Wait for
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: It All about Bears, which is all about bears. And
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: then he wrote Hunt High, um phenomenal books, but there
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: aren't many round he would self published these books. And
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: I'm always y happen about him. You know, there's very
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: few of the men there. And I was pointing out
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: that how I bought one from a guy there was
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: like a hunter Bocks. I bought it and he said
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: to me with a note sticking on it and says,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: because he sees my name when he has a ship
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: to me. He's like, you're the reason I bought this book. Well,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: right now, someone after that episode came out, someone goes
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: online to check on Hunt High and there's a copy
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: on Amazon for one thousand, six hundred and nine cents,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: or you can get a hardcover for the less half
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: this half as much. Yeah, and there's some used ones
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: for seven eight hundred bucks. You would think that someone
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: would reprint that someone Ditcher book. That's crazy, unbelievable. Do
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: you feel bad spot burned a book? No, because I
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: think that even in I think he was so good
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: and such an interesting guy. Like to see him, even
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: in death enjoy success. A friend of mine was with
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: him when he died. Was with Duncan Gilchrist when he died,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: they were filming bighorn sheep. He would do these like videos.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: He would go out and film bighorn sheep and just
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: do videos about bighorn sheep, love sheep. How long ago
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: did he die? It's maybe a decade or so ago.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: A buddymine is an outdoor writer and he was writing
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: a piece about Duncan and about Duncan's like lifelong fascination
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: with alpine hunting and mountain hunting. And they were out
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: filming big horns and he said, all of a sudden,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: he looked and he was just dead. And he said
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: to my friend, said he in telling the story. My
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: friend said, Duncan, where did you go? It was that
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: like it doesn't seem like such a bad way sad
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: hearts act, And there was no nothing. It's just all
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, he was just dead, right where he
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: wanted to be. Probably, yeah, yeah, Duncan. Sound I thought
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: you were doing the death mode. There's a song. I
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: wonder if this there's a song, and I've always wondered
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: what it's about. But as a band called death Cap
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: for Cutie, they got a song about Duncan. Giol Christ,
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: the lead singer, did a solo album and he has
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: a song called Duncan Where Have You Gone? And I
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: wonder if it's in reference to that. I don't know, dude,
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: he really knows where did you go? Okay, it might
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: be different, but that's a weird coincidence. Did he big
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: sheep hunter? Not at all. He's a vegan. Wow. So
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: that's the important that's the expensive book desk. Now. Last
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: thing to close out was we gotta talk about a
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: lot of times to talk about things people do do,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: but we're gonna talk about things people don't do. Seth
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: has been toying with. It's not too late, Seth. It
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: might be Seth. Toyd was joining a wall like tournament
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: this weekend and chickened out. But he's still fishing the
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: same lake where the tournament. He's just going up there
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: to fish anyway. UM, walk me through it, Seth, just
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: so I can understand. Well, Yeah, Chester and I we're
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: gonna we're thinking about joining or signing up for the
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: while I tournament. It's on Canyon Ferry this weekend. It's
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: part of the Montanel while I circuit Um. One reason
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: why we didn't sign up was because the entry fees.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like this company could sponsor you and you
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: just get a sticker on your boat, but then you've
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: damned your better win just gonna be embarrassing. Man. Yeah. Um,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: and one of the reasons that I was afraid of.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: But what I'm I'm kind of reading now that this
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: might not be a problem because they're switching it up.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: But my live well isn't always uh, it doesn't always
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: keep fish very lively. And I was afraid to just
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: having fish in there and dying before way and like
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: they'd pass away and you wouldn't be able to count them. Yeah,
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: but I'm I'm just reading this right here that I
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: think they're they might go away from that this year,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: or they have you just bringing dead walleyes on ice. No,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: you just there's a there's a way that you can
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: record your fish size by like digitally or yeah, m hm.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: How much would you win if you won the walleye tournament.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: It's estimated ten thousan dollars for first place and how
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: many boats, Um, it's got to be a lot. A
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty two person team, max is what says
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: on here huh, I feel like that's probably feel like
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: I would have the smallest boat there. Later it would
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: be like a movie about you guys. Man, it would
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: be like one of the Jamaicans one that Bob sledding
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: tournament in Olympics and they later made a movie that's true.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: If he just you would be able to take that
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: plot line. It have like Chester's wife be mad that
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: he fishes all time, right, and and then it would
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: be that you guys go out in this little boat
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: in the movie would be like a way worse boat. Yeah,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: there'd be a big storm. So this is this is
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: another problem the weather to my boat on Canyan Ferry.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: Like you got to have decent weather to be on
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: the water. If like the wind blows both days this weekend,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: we could throw three and twenty bucks in the pot
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: not even be able to fish. M But what okay,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: I'll be out there on the bank. But you know,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: like for the potential of ten thousand is like investment,
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, maybe it's right, Like maybe the odds are
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: better than that's a lot of money towards Chester's new boat,
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: and it's or bus you could luck into like like
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: place and probably get your money back or something. Yeah,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: that's true. Now if you go up, you're gonna go
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: fish anyway. Yeah, we're gonna do anything. So all these
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: who's are gonna be out there in their big souped
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: up boats. You canna be out there for the minute
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: you catch a hog, you're gonna be really regretting. Yeah,
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: signed up, Still sign up. It's caught a nice about
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: like during a roll. We were Yeah, we were up
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: there last weekend. There was a bunch of dudes pre
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: fishing it for the tournament, a lot of dudes that
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: have fancy boats. But we absolutely crushed them. So you
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: out fished them. I don't know if we outfished them.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: We caught a lot of fish. I don't know if
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: we caught like it's a I think it's a five
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: five fish bag. We didn't catch any giants. You just
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: tell everybody about me catching that one there a night
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: on the don't want you to tell anybody about that.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: You can. You can tell us about it since we started.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: I got one there a night. I noticed after I
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: caught it, Seth, I noticed after I caught it, Seth
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: changed his approach Joe Wally and then went on, Yeah,
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: what we call eaters. Spencer what we call eaters, A
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: good old eater eaters. All Right, so you're going, we're
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: going anyway. Not too late to enroll or too late
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: to enroll. I think it's too late, But um no,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: we're definitely chet and I are definitely gonna start fishing
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: some tournaments. You're gonna become a tournament walleye angler. Ye.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: Do you think you'll still work here? Do you think
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: you'll quit to do that? It all depends on how
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: much time you let me, so you honestly quit this.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: You'd honestly quit? You do like you wouldn't want to
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: be colleagues with any of us anymore? No, I wouldn't,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: so you could be a walleye tournament guy. I want.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: I freaking love walleye fishing. I know what you do.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: I know you do, but no, I wouldn't. Your girlfriend
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: likes eating walleyes, you like catching walleyes? Yep. Um No,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: I seriously do want to enter tournaments. I think it'd
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: be fun. But is he gonna pay you to let
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: him go when your tournament fishing? Though? Don't you gonna
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: release him your way? In? What do they care with you? Them?
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: Don't I'm not sure how that works if you have
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: to release him or not. You probably can't high grade
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: during the tournament though, that's what you're talking about for
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: for explain high grading for people at home. Yeah, Like,
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: like you catch you got four or sixteen inches in
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: the boat, and you can only keep four and then
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: you catch an eighteen incher. You can't let one of
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: the sixteen inchers go and keep that eighteen inchures. That's
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: high grading. They do that all the time. Bass tournaments though,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: don't They depends on the regulations. Yeah, it depends on state,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: state and body of water. There was I remember there
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: was a bass fishing scandal one time where there was
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: a I think it was a bass tournament in a
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: stretch of the Mississippi where you have states, right, so
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: whatever the hell. One side of the the river is one state,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: one side the rivers the R state. A guy crossed
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: state line like down and I guess in this area
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: is always islands and it's confusing what state you're in?
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: Cross state lines and high graded? Yeah, it was. That
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: was Brandon Paul nit big fan of them. Actually he
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: was a fan of a bass fishing. It was an
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: awes mistake. No, I'm not criticized he got his poster
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: on his wall. There was a moment when bass fishing
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: was on ESPN. Yeah, like you you had a bass fisherman,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: like you had a football team. Did you put posters
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: of these people on your bedroom wall? No? I still follow.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: Did you wear their jersey? No? I follow closely though
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: the the Elite series Bass. I used to do fantasy
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: bass fishing. Do you know what that means? You know?
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: A fantasy football is, yeah, that but with bass. So
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: you like pick like five anglers for a specific tournament
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: and then you're like entered in this pool with these
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: other guys that are like watching the tournament. It's like,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: it's like, why do you guys not start like a
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: segment of our business dedicated to this stuff? We should.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: It's pretty far outside our ethos. We're catching fish this
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: version of catching fish with electronics, and like, like this
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: tournament tomorrow, seth these guys are gonna have electronics more
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: expensive than your until you're set up. But I mean
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: I have electronics on my boat that are that's like
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: more expensive than my boat. So I feel like they're
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: not gonna out electronics me. They might just out fish you.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: They're definitely outboating me big time. All Right, Seth, good
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: luck out there. Thank you. I'm a little bit sad
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: about this new career going down. I hope you don't
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: do well. No, I'm not. I'll tell you. I'm not
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: gonna leave me either to be a tournament walleye fisherman.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: But that's good here, that's good here. Um I do
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: like fishing them. Okay, thank you, every buddy. We're Seth.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: Good luck if you're if you're fishing the wall, I
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: term and you see a guy in a little dinghy boat,
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: the Nighthawk cresh Lyer Nighthawks say hi, thank you. S