Latest / High on Life with Melissa Minnich / Damon A. Powell — Creativity as a Spiritual Practice: Art, Beauty & the Divine

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Damon A. Powell — Creativity as a Spiritual Practice: Art, Beauty & the Divine · High on Life with Melissa Minnich

0:03
Speaker 1: What if the success in life you've been chasing was
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never meant to come from outside of you? This is
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High on Life. I'm your host, Melissa Minnick, scientist, consciousness explorer,
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and spiritual alchemist. And this is where we go deeper,
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where science, spirituality, and human potential converge through conversations that
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explore consciousness, energy, and what it actually takes to stop
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chasing and start experiencing your life differently.
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Speaker 2: Get high with me in this conversation. Hello and welcome back.
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Speaker 1: Today's conversation explores one of the most overlooked spiritual practices
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there is, creativity. Whether you're painting, writing, building a business,
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raising a family, or simply creating a meaningful way of life,
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every act of creation has the potential to become an
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expression of something greater than ourselves. My guest today is
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Damon Powell, artist, theologian, author, and one of the contributing
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authors in our upcoming book, The Way of the Initiate,
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Stories of Remembering, Awakening, and Becoming the New Human.
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Speaker 2: His work beautifully bridges art.
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Speaker 1: Spirituality, theology, and aesthetics, exploring how beauty, creativity, and imagination
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become pathways into deeper consciousness and a more intimate relationship
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with the divine. In this conversation, we explore creativity as
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a spiritual practice, the healing power of beauty, artistic expression,
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and divine embodiment, and why creating may be one of
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the most sacred things we can do.
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Speaker 2: Damon, welcome to.
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Speaker 3: High on Life. Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to have this conversation. This is not
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one that I have been able to have yet, but
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I'd like to start before we get into creativity, spirituality, theology.
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I'd love to hear your story. What first drew you
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to both art and theology?
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Speaker 3: Actually, growing up, I always wanted to be an artist,
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and I felt like there was something that I was
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supposed to do. And I wasn't quite sure what that was,
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but I kept spending most of my time in high
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school between art room and then I was in a
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Catholic school. So a lot of the religion classes that
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I became very close with one of the religion professors.
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And we would kind of just going back and forth.
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And then when I got to start to go to college,
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apply for colleges, my art teacher was like, you really
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should try to make a go of this. And I
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didn't even know that that was really a possibility. I
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knew I liked drawing and painting, but I didn't know.
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And I was like, well, Now that I know that's
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a possibility, sure, let's do it. And then I got
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called in ministry shortly after I graduated from my undergrad school.
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And I went into the ministry. I went off to
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school to study theology. And I loved it. And I
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figured there was some connection between what I was feeling
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when I was painting and creating and what I was
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having when I was at church having these spiritual experiences
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and just beginning to meditate. I'm like, this is all connected.
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I just don't know how. So I went to get
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my PhD so I could explore that in depth and
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figure out what these connections were that there were other
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people talking about. I just needed to get into conversation.
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And that's kind of been the path ever since.
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Speaker 1: Well, that's really, it's super fascinating that college is what
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sent you to art and then theology after that. And
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then this convergence, was there a specific moment in time
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or a specific moment when you're like, You started to
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see that connection as you were even in your PhD
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or any of those times where there was like the
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aha moment, the eureka that said, oh, this is what
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this is all.
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Speaker 3: About for me. There wasn't one particular moment. There were
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several little theophanies along the way. One kind of major
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one when I was getting my master's in theology, a
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lot of my professors were like, you really should do something.
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This could really be fruitful. And then as I began
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to get into my Ph.D. program, I had an interdisciplinary
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studies program. So I was writing my own degree program
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as I went along. And I started taking certain courses
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and I began to see the lights coming on. Oh,
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this is all related. This is related to that. And
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so it just kept going from there, kept blossoming.
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Speaker 1: And so now how does that show up in the
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work and your life now? How are those two pieces
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brought together for you?
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Speaker 3: Everything I do now centers around my mission statement, which
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is to give the divine light form the expression of
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images that manifest the way that spirit interacts with our world.
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So everything I do is about that. All of my
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pieces are deeply researched based upon my insights in theology.
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So I bring that, my understanding of symbolism, aesthetics, all
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that goes into the pieces and into my writer. So
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it all filters together. Everything is singularly focused now. It
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may not be the same modality, but it is from
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the same source, which is something I had to figure
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out as well. No matter what the modality is, the
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sources feel the same, so the energy feels the.
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Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
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Speaker 1: No matter the modality, the source is the same. It's
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like the underlying, like we're looking at the ocean and
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your different waves and forms are the art that expresses
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out of it. But everything underneath it comes from this
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solid source.
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Speaker 2: That we can experience. And I think that's all of us, right?
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Speaker 1: The life, how every single one of us, if we
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can really tap in, there's this underlying source. And then
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we each are the expression of that. And yours comes
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through the expression then also.
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Speaker 2: Of your art.
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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, exactly. We got it. I love it.
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Speaker 1: So you're also one of the contributing authors in our
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upcoming book, The Way of the Initiate. That book is
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coming out in September. You can find out more on thewayoftheinitiate.com.
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What's the initiation story that you're sharing in that book?
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Just give us a little overview of that piece of
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your life.
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Speaker 3: Basically, my whole string through the whole thing is the
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idea of calling. And what that means and how do
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we unlock that? How did I unlock it? And what
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that means to step into that? And what are the
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joys that come with that? And some of the pitfalls
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in terms of getting to understanding what that calling is,
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how do you express it? Your unique being personality, how
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I came to express it in mine and how that
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got me to where I am now. And what I'm
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doing now is always a reflection of that.
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Speaker 1: So what would you say to someone who, has a
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calling that maybe to the world, as we have viewed
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it so far in the last couple of hundred years,
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that it may not have safety and security in it.
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You know, you have to get the regular job and
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go to work. And or there's, you know, like you said,
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you went to college and somebody said, you know, look
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at art. And you actually said yes to that. But
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so many people have this fear around like, you know, art, creativity,
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my calling will not actually support me in my life.
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So what was different about your ability to be able
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to say yes to that? And what can you share
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with people that maybe allowed them to open up more
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to the yes of their calling?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can speak to that very easily. I've lived it.
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I would say the first thing is, yeah, you have
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to begin to grow and let go of the fear.
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I went through that a lot. At first, when I
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got called into the ministry, I had a whole program
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planned out about how I was going to be this
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great artist. I was on this track. I had it
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all figured out. And then all of a sudden, this
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comes up. I'm like, well, where does this fit? And
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I mourned for a little while, thinking that my art
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days were over. I really did. And then I came
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to understand that I could pull these together. And sometimes, yeah,
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you're right. You're calling it first. It may not support
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you being able to do that full time. But nothing
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is mutually exclusive. Everything comes together. And I believe that
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spirit uses everything. All things work together for good. If
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you stay tuned in and you stay on track. And
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I can tell you that because I lived it. That's
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what you do. You just continue to step out. And
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when it's time to switch slowly from, you know, doing
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these dual occupations to something else, you'll know. Spirit will
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tell you if you stay in line. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I always say that, you know, what I used to
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tell my clients, was we leave breadcrumbs for ourselves. It's
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like every single thing, even myself, and I know this
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sounds strange. I was a drug trafficker in my 20s.
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And most people would be like, well, how does that
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even fit into what you do now? And I said, well,
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now we live in a world where plant medicine and
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all of these things, ketamine and this, the things that
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I was selling 25 years ago illegally are now like
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being called medicine, but I have a different experience with it.
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So I get to be the disruptor that says, are
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you really doing medicine? Or are you doing a drug again?
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Are you just reverting back?
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Speaker 3: Right?
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Speaker 1: So there's this way of like, oh, we leave, we
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do all of these different things in our lives that
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are all pieces and parts of the calling, the breadcrumbs.
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And there is a way to bring them all together.
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Speaker 3: You know, and.
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Speaker 1: As you spoke and when I was reading about your
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work and looking into it, I understood art and theology,
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but I had never, as someone who's also studied theology
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and who is a prolific writer and loves to like
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draw and stuff like that, but I had never actually
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thought about those two things together. But I think that
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source is creativity. Source is the beauty. Source is those things.
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And so, of course, that means, you know, If the
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God is that, if this is what we're here to experience,
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why wouldn't creativity and art be one of the most
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beautiful expressions of that? And so you gave yourself these breadcrumbs.
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So do you believe that every human being is inherently creative?
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Speaker 3: Yes, I absolutely do. I am not creative just in
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terms of the traditional sense, but just in terms of manifesting.
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We're all manifesting all types of things all the time.
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The question is, how do you tap into that energy
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and manifest it in a more focused way, depending on
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what you want to do? and let that flow through you.
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And I also agree with what you said about previous
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things we've done in life. I've had all kinds of jobs,
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all kinds of things I've done. But I think a
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lot of times, particularly in society now, they don't need
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room for evolution. And all of us evolve. That's what
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we're here to do. And my work is going to evolve.
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Who I am as a person is going to evolve.
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And that's just another part of the process. So, yeah,
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they may say they don't go together, but actually they do.
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You could see the whole evolution of whoever you are
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as a person. It's a different situation. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: As you were saying in that, I had the aha
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when you said creativity. And as you were saying it,
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I was like, oh, creativity, creator. We are co-creators with
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the world. It is a manifestation. Creativity is literally one
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of the ways that we manifest. I don't know about
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all of you that are listening to this right now,
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but I mean, that to me was just a huge aha.
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And so your work explores the relationship between this, the
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art and the spirituality. And so how do you see
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that they're connected on this deeper level?
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Speaker 3: Well, as I said, everything comes from the same source
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and it's just a matter of expression, which is different.
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And then I also think the connections between actually doing
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this in a conscious way. So I see my work
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more as a kind of channeling and a form of teaching.
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So I try to be didactic, visually exciting and try
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to channel and embed spiritual energies into whatever I'm doing.
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So I'm staying focused in that process. So I think
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really what the bottom line is, we're all creators and
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embrace the creativity, whatever form it wants to flow through you,
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because what you think it may be supposed to be
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might be something else when you really tap it. Just
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allow it to be what it is. They're all interconnected.
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Nothing is separate. We are made in the image of
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the divine. And I believe that that primary image is manifestation. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And the, the, the, the creativity, the art, when it
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is done in this way, I mean, everything is frequency.
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Speaker 2: Everything has a frequency to it.
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Speaker 1: I know I've looked at different pieces of art and
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I can feel the energy and frequency. I have a
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friend that, that does art. art that is portals and
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literally I've been pulled into an experience into another place.
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Speaker 2: She's actually portaled energy from a place to another.
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Speaker 1: And I'm sitting here now looking at the art behind
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you with the sacred geometry. And each of them has
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a different frequency, a different energy to them, but you
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can feel that and that comes through.
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Speaker 2: And that is the source of you, right?
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Speaker 1: That pouring through and into the art that then gets
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to be translated into someone else so that they can
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have an experience like looking at it or they get
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a feeling or they get a knowing. It's like a
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physical form of the divine in front of you so
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you can have a personal connection is what that feels
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like as I sit there and look at your art.
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And is that one of the goals of that or
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the experiences that you've noticed with the art that you do?
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Speaker 3: Yes, it's to transmit energy. And I really think that
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People respond in different ways, but the experience of the
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beautiful is a spiritual experience. When you really see something
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that is truly beautiful, that captivates you, whether it's a sunset,
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whether it's a piece of work that someone has created,
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it takes you to another place. It lifts you up
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in what we call anagogy is the term. It's uplifting.
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And that is like you've got your normal life and
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then you have this experience. It may come back down,
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but it's there. It's embedded. And so that is spiritual.
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That's that's an uplifting of your vibration. It all works together.
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Speaker 2: That's so beautiful.
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Speaker 1: So what do you think that art or creativity reveals
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about the nature of God?
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Speaker 3: I think it reveals that God is the ultimate creator,
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that God also wants to be in communion with us
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because God created all this, right? I believe so that
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God could be manifest through us. And so... That that
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urge to create, to be more, to become more, to
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extend oneself. And because when you're creating something, what you're
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actually doing is manifesting something out into the physical world,
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whether it be your thoughts, your actions, an actual painting,
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whatever it is. And so this desire to expand oneself,
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to build oneself out into, you know, to install oneself
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in the world, I guess we could say is kind
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of what that's about. Yeah, absolutely.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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Speaker 1: And so for those out there that are like, oh,
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my gosh, sounds great, but I'm not really creative or
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I can't make art. You know, what is part of
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your process of how that works? And do you believe
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that we create from ourselves or through ourselves or.
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Speaker 2: A combination of that?
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Speaker 1: You know, like people that are maybe seeking, say, I'd
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love to be more creative in my life, but I'm
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not that kind of person.
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Speaker 3: I think. that we're all doing it naturally. We make
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it too hard. We make it seem like it's something
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that it's not. Like I said, we're manifesting all the time.
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The question is, how do you want to express it?
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Maybe your moment of expression is not actual pain. Maybe
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it's in the way you live your life. I really
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truly believe that I'm trying to live a beautiful life,
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a whole life. And I want people to look back
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and say, that was a great life. You know, And
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so the aesthetics of that, of just living, how do
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we turn that into something that is beautiful? And you
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create that every day. When you go to work, it
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seems like it's mundane, but these are all actually sacred acts.
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The only difference between the profane and sacred is the
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orientation you take towards that particular thing that you're doing.
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When you do it mindfully, then you've done it creatively. Wow.
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Speaker 2: That's what I That's powerful.
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Speaker 1: The only difference between the profane and the sacred is
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how you create it through. I mean, I just, yeah.
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Because you can have two experiences that seem very similar
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and it depends on how someone is bringing that experience about.
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Like I can wash my dishes. And I can either
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be like.
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Speaker 3: I hate this.
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Speaker 2: I don't want to do this.
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Speaker 1: You know, like make it or I can be in
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the honor of the washing of the dishes and the
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task that is and the gratitude that I have dishes
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to wash and all of that and and turn it
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into something very beautiful.
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Speaker 2: It becomes a meditative practice.
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Speaker 3: Yes. And I think, too, even in terms of what
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we talk about, this whole idea about substances as well.
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So in one context, it's a very sacred act that
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you're doing in order to connect to the divine. In
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another context, you may be running for something that you
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don't want to do. There's a very thin line. If
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you shift your orientation, it becomes something else. Oh, my gosh.
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That's so true.
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Speaker 2: So true.
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Speaker 1: So one of the things you talk about that you
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just mentioned was aesthetics and beauty. And so for those
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that might not understand exactly what aesthetics is, let's just
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explain a little bit about aesthetics. aesthetics, and why these
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two components of creativity are so important.
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Speaker 3: So aesthetics was actually founded by a man named Alexander Baumgarten.
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And it is really the study of sensual experience. That's
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really what it is, not beauty. Beauty is an aspect
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of that. But you also have to talk about symbology,
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talk about semiotics, all kinds of other things that get
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into the nature of aesthetics. So aesthetics is actually very
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broad because we have all kinds of sensual experiences. And
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what do they mean? How do we interpret them? So
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one of the ways that we have these sensory experiences
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is through beauty, through sight, the comprehension of that, or
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I should say the apprehension of something that is beautiful,
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and then the other ways that we perceive. So looking
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at those experiences that come through the senses and what
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do we do with them. So I think it's really
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the ground of how we are. You can do your
17:59
spirituality from the top down. which is looking more at
18:02
the more mystical aspects and trying to work your way down.
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And you can start where you are on the bottom floor,
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which is with your senses, your body, the very thing
18:10
that God gave you to perceive the world around you
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and work your way up from there. And so I
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think that's what aesthetics is really about. And that's why
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it's so broad and can be applied to many different
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things in many different situations, if that makes sense.
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Speaker 1: So I never thought about beauty being one of the aesthetics.
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I've always thought of beauty as this, you know, like, oh,
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I find that beautiful. Or I, you know, I've had
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a beautiful experience. But the aesthetics is like all these
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different pieces that come with that. It's a very different
18:40
way that I've never looked at to see these things
18:44
and understand it. So I know, like we were talking,
18:48
you said sunsets or a sunrise. I know for me,
18:51
Having nature and a sunset or a sunrise, there's something
18:55
about it that completely changes me. It's that awe and
18:58
that wonder. And it feels, it's one of some of
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the times that I feel the most transcendent in my
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life where I'm like, no matter what. So what's happening there?
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Speaker 3: What I would say is happening is that we are
19:13
connecting to the new. Acting through the spiritual and being
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exposed to that lifts us in a certain way. It
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raises our vibrations and that causes us to connect and
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open and expand into what is more of the more
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spiritual aspects of our being when we experience that. And
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it's all around us. The question is, are we paying attention?
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We need that state all the time. There's beauty everywhere
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and everything. And sometimes even the absence of that which
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is beautiful makes foregrounds the beauty because you're like, oh,
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this is so horrible. This is so ugly. But then
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that makes you look towards something to counteract that. So
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we always want to seek the balance of that's human being.
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So that's what I would say about that.
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Speaker 2: Do you believe that beauty can actually heal us?
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Speaker 3: Yes, I do. Because they're all connected. What we talk
20:05
about is the trans and ghetto. So it would be truth,
20:09
beauty and goodness. The good, the true, and the beautiful.
20:13
They're all interconnected. Usually, if you think of something as beautiful,
20:16
you assume that it is good and true. If you
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find truth, there's a certain beauty in experiencing that truth,
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and that is good. If you experience something good, there's
20:27
beauty there, and you assume if it is good, that
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it is true. So we talk about these transcendentals that
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go in a circle, and they're always there in everything
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that we do or experience.
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Speaker 2: That's really beautiful.
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Speaker 1: So you combine not just, you know, you work with,
20:43
you know, art and different types of art, but you're
20:46
also in the ministry. You're, you know, a theologian. Are
20:52
you an actual minister? Are you like a reverend? Or
20:54
do you, how does your work in ministry and your
20:57
work as an artist, how does it combine? And like,
20:58
what does that look like in your living world?
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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm actually a minister now at Lakeside Temple of
21:04
Practical Christianity in Oakland. I recently started there. I retired.
21:09
I did 26 years of ministry and then I retired.
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But now I'm back. Spirit said that I should come back.
21:15
And really try to express that. Like I said, I
21:18
don't see any difference in all these. The difference is
21:20
just how it's being expressed. If you're tapping in and
21:24
bringing something forth, whether you're doing it through writing, whether
21:27
you're doing it through speaking in a sermon, or whether
21:29
you're doing it visually. It's the same source. It's the
21:32
same energy. It's the same vibration. It's just being expressed
21:35
in a different way, particularly in a sermon. And it's
21:38
coming through in the voice of my personality and who
21:41
I am. It's being filtered through that. Um, so yeah, I'm,
21:45
I'm doing a lot.
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Speaker 1: So does your congregation know that you're also an artist?
21:49
Do you get to like, cause I think this is amazing.
21:51
Like you're, you're doing sermons, you have a congregation, but
21:54
you also bring them these other forms of art.
21:56
Speaker 2: Do you ever do like writing.
21:58
Speaker 1: At your church or art stuff to allow like young
22:01
kids or, or even adults like start to feel and
22:04
get moved by the spirit through these other forms?
22:07
Speaker 3: We're getting there. I've only been there since the first
22:10
of the year. So we're still getting to know each other.
22:13
It's only been six months. So we're moving towards some
22:15
other things. But I always bring a lot of other
22:17
things into my discussion, into my preaching. I may bring
22:21
something in from Bhagavad Gita. I may talk about Tao
22:24
Te Ching. Last week, I brought something from there. So
22:27
I'm always drawing from these different perspectives so people can
22:30
see how these things are actually all intertwined. How they
22:34
all connect together. That's kind of what I'm doing.
22:47
Speaker 1: I really love this because I think that especially in
22:50
this day and age, we have this big spiritual movement.
22:54
Speaker 2: People are swinging all different ways, right?
22:56
Speaker 1: We've got the idea of the divine feminine. We've got
22:58
everybody moving towards spirituality. And what has happened is in
23:02
that the religion, because there's been so many, you know,
23:07
more people have been killed in the name of religion.
23:09
There's been so much bad word behind religion that a
23:12
lot of people are like dropping their faith completely swinging
23:16
over here but it's still it becomes another place of
23:19
like ungroundedness another place where this where you're like you're
23:22
able to bring this in and say no these things
23:24
all work together it's not this or that it's here
23:28
here is a whole picture it sounds like you're giving
23:30
a very um holistic and whole picture instead of uh
23:33
instead of like drilling into this one way of belief
23:38
or system.
23:40
Speaker 3: What am I trying to do? And I agree with you.
23:41
People are kind of getting all over the place. And
23:45
even though people say there's certain things about religion, just
23:48
religion in general, no matter what it is, the good
23:50
thing about it is if you're just getting into these areas,
23:53
it gives you some sort of kind of container to
23:56
kind of filter through and learn things from. You can
23:59
get so much stuff you don't know what to make
24:01
sense of. and trying to discern, you may not be
24:04
at that level spiritually, but you have to discern it clearly.
24:07
At least you have a container here that you can
24:09
get to study and look at these things, and then
24:11
you can kind of branch off. So I definitely believe
24:14
in just in terms of, for that reason only, it
24:16
might be good to be affiliated with some type of something,
24:20
whatever it may be, which is Google, just something to
24:22
kind of give you, you know, because we need that
24:26
container sometimes, but we just get too far out and
24:28
with too many options.
24:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe everybody. I say everybody needs faith. Everybody
24:33
needs something to believe in that is greater than themselves.
24:39
And my father was a minister. And yet, due to
24:47
my childhood and the person that he was and the
24:50
things I ran screaming from the church, and it wasn't
24:54
even until my 30s that I was even able to
24:56
say the word God without it bringing actual anxiety to
25:00
my system. And so I had to completely rewire and
25:04
rework my whole belief system around religion. And then I
25:11
got to go and study religions all over the world.
25:13
And then I started to see the underlying piece of
25:16
every single one of them and what the truth of
25:18
the messages were with that. And so then it brought
25:21
me back around to being okay with words like God
25:24
to know that everybody needed a faith, and no matter
25:26
whether it was in whatever kind of church it was,
25:29
that if we could share the understanding that they're all
25:33
trying to lead us somewhere, to something greater.
25:36
Speaker 2: And so where is that trying to lead us?
25:38
Speaker 3: Not really. We connect us, really. I think we do
25:42
a lot of connections. Um, and how that gets expressed
25:46
once again, I keep getting this, this, this one. So
25:49
I want to go and how that gets expressed may
25:51
look very different for each individual person. Uh, but again,
25:54
it's the same source. Yeah. Yeah.
25:58
Speaker 1: And so have you ever found that these, um, the two,
26:01
the two identities that you have, um, obviously I think
26:05
they work beautifully together, but has there ever been a
26:07
moment in time where they've ever challenged each other?
26:11
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, that's absolutely when I first went into seminary.
26:14
And after that, when I got out, I was initially
26:17
by him. the nomination that I was in at the time,
26:20
the only option they had was kind of pastoral ministry.
26:24
So I started pastoring. And it was difficult living with
26:27
and trying to figure out how to navigate the expectations
26:31
of how you're supposed to be, quote unquote, whatever that means.
26:35
And then my living as an artist, which we know
26:38
is often very free environment, you know, very free, very different.
26:42
And so trying to navigate that and figure that out
26:45
and figure out a way to be who I am authentically,
26:50
which has been a very big thing I'm always about.
26:53
You have to be authentic no matter what you're doing.
26:57
I'm convinced now that my tribe, the right people will
27:00
be brought to me and stay. That's what they're meant
27:04
to be. Stop worrying so much about other people's expectations
27:06
of how I'm supposed to act or not act as
27:09
a minister. Just be me. They have to deal with that.
27:14
Those are their expectations, not mine. and really begin to
27:17
let that go. But, you know, you have to develop
27:19
the inner strength to be able to do that and
27:21
the self-confidence and just being secure, I think, in my
27:24
connection to the divine and make sure that I'm staying
27:27
on guidance. And if I feel in my conscience that
27:30
I'm okay, everybody else has to deal with their own stuff.
27:35
Speaker 2: I love it.
27:36
Speaker 1: And so over the years, as you've grown both as
27:38
an artist and as a theologian, I would love to know, like,
27:43
how has art informed you your, your world over here that,
27:48
you know, the, the, as a, as a, as a minister,
27:52
and then how has your ministry informed your art, uh,
27:54
informed your art? Like, is there any, is there anything
27:57
that's changed in your understanding or any influence? Like you've
28:00
noticed like over the years, this has changed a little bit,
28:02
or this has changed a little bit because of these
28:04
two influencing each other.
28:07
Speaker 3: Yes.
28:07
Speaker 4: The first thing I would say is just getting used
28:10
to this idea of coming to the conclusion that this
28:14
is all the same because I'm used to feeling like, okay,
28:16
if I sit up here and I'm writing a paper,
28:18
something else for a journal article or something in my research,
28:21
and then I want to sit down to paint, I'm
28:23
switching these modes.
28:25
Speaker 3: So that was the first way, figuring out that, okay,
28:29
if it's all the same source, Especially the most shouldn't be.
28:32
So that's gotten much easier. And then it's the whole
28:34
idea of a lot of things that I'm reading in
28:36
my theology. I definitely put that into my art. I'm
28:39
trying to express what I believe or theological concepts into
28:43
visual form. And so what might that look like at
28:46
any given time? That's definitely influenced me because, you know,
28:49
let's say love. You could spend your whole life depicting
28:52
love visually. You could literally spend your whole life on
28:55
that one thing. So how do you nuance that and
28:58
put these heavy concepts into what it might look like
29:01
in a visual way? So you never run out of material.
29:04
You run out of different ways that you want to
29:07
express it. And then sometimes things just get, like I've
29:11
done a few series and I'm like, okay, this is,
29:13
Spirit is saying no more that you got to, you know,
29:15
it's time to do something else. So we figure it out.
29:18
And then in terms of ministry, I think the way
29:20
that I approach my sermon construction and my research now
29:24
is different because of my art. And I try to
29:27
be much more intuitive in my presence. A lot of
29:29
people do a lot of outline. That's never worked for me.
29:32
I have to be more intuitive and just kind of
29:34
let it flow. I may have a couple of blocks
29:36
of ideas and then I just need that spirit kind
29:40
of work with me to fill that in as opposed to, oh, this, this, this, this. Yeah.
29:45
Speaker 2: I'm the same with my writing.
29:49
Speaker 1: When my book came out last year, when I was
29:53
working with the editors and my book coach and everything
29:55
a couple of years ago, they're like, you know, here,
29:56
create an outline, do the thing and all this stuff.
29:58
Speaker 2: And I'm like, and I'm like looking at the outline
30:00
and I'm like, ah, I can't do it.
30:02
Speaker 3: Right.
30:03
Speaker 1: And then after working on the book for a year
30:05
and a half and in a couple of rounds of edits,
30:07
I lost the entire book and I had been working
30:09
on it for like six, seven months. And, you know, it, and,
30:13
and it was like what I had left of what
30:15
it was, even what my editors had was, was like,
30:18
such a fraction of what I had written that I
30:20
had to start completely over. And I had just a
30:22
few days before third rounds and edits were done and everything.
30:25
Speaker 2: So, and you know what?
30:26
Speaker 1: I channeled that book in eight days because I was
30:28
just like, I'm going to throw away all the things that,
30:31
you know, everything, and I'm just going to write. And
30:32
it came through and they came back with the book
30:34
and they're like, wow, how, wait, what happened? This isn't
30:37
the same book and it's great.
30:38
Speaker 2: And I was like, and you did it in eight days.
30:40
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, sometimes the system of, you know,
30:44
those blocks and those things just doesn't work.
30:47
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely right. Congratulations.
30:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
30:51
Speaker 3: Well, no, you too.
30:52
Speaker 1: Like, you know, that you're saying that's, I believe that
30:55
that's that connection. Like you said, you channel a lot
30:57
of your stuff. Like there's a connection that you have
30:59
deeply because so deeply with, with, you know, your connection
31:04
to God and, and the way you've studied and art,
31:07
I believe art literally deepens the connection that you have 100%.
31:11
So it's like all of these things that allows you to,
31:15
I don't need to write the bullet points. I just
31:19
need to write or I just need to speak or
31:20
I need to have it come through. So you have
31:23
two pieces of art behind you. Before we leave, because
31:26
we're going to start to talk about your book next.
31:29
And I think they might be connected, though. Can you
31:31
share a little bit about the two pieces that you
31:34
have behind you and what they're meant to mean or
31:37
the energy or anything like that?
31:40
Speaker 3: Yes, these two pieces are part of my chakra series,
31:42
which is actually from my latest book that I wrote
31:45
and illustrated. So these are two of the images from that.
31:47
The green one is on the heart chakra and the
31:50
blue one is on the throat chakra. So that's what
31:53
those are.
31:54
Speaker 4: Beautiful.
31:55
Speaker 2: I knew that was going to be the perfect lead
31:57
in for your book. Awesome.
32:00
Speaker 1: So your latest book, Exploring the Chakras of Visual Representation.
32:04
So I find this super fascinating.
32:07
Speaker 2: In the past... if someone were to say they.
32:09
Speaker 1: Were a minister or part of a religious thing, and
32:12
we were to talk about chakras, there would be a
32:15
lot of pushback, right?
32:17
Speaker 2: A lot, a lot of pushback.
32:19
Speaker 1: And so I love and inspired by the fact that
32:22
you do that, but what inspired you to explore the chakras,
32:27
one through art, write this book, and then how, how,
32:30
how do, when did you come to the reconciliation of
32:33
that as it, as it not being, you know, what
32:35
people have said in the past? Oh, that's, That old
32:38
stuff is not religion.
32:40
Speaker 2: It's not good.
32:42
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a lot.
32:45
Speaker 2: We got some time.
32:46
Speaker 3: Right. Okay. I would start by saying that... Yeah, I
32:51
got into my initial entry into all that type of thing,
32:53
Tai Chi. So I started doing a lot of Tai Chi.
32:56
And then I moved to yoga. I'm now also a
32:58
yoga teacher. So I teach a once a week yoga class.
33:00
That's another discussion. But so just getting familiar with the
33:05
whole idea of energy. And I believe in a very
33:07
physical approach. I consider myself a mystic. So beginning to
33:11
begin to feel the energy flow of Tai Chi and
33:14
then towards like yoga and begin to become familiar with
33:17
the concept. And I wanted to study them in more depth.
33:20
And so my creative process is very intuitive. Sometimes I
33:25
start painting something. This would actually, this throat chakra was
33:29
the first image I painted. I didn't even know it
33:31
was going to be a series. I just knew what
33:33
I feel I'm being led to do. I was reading
33:35
some stuff on the chakra. This really hit me. I said,
33:38
you know what? I feel like I need to do something.
33:39
I'm working on this throat chakra at the time I was.
33:42
So a lot of my creative work is actually a
33:45
visual journal of my spiritual growth and my spiritual process.
33:49
So then another one came and another one came. And
33:52
so I said, okay, obviously this is going to be something.
33:55
So after about a third one, I figured, yeah, this
33:57
is going to kind of go somewhere. And I just
33:59
let spirit take me where I need to go. And
34:01
so after each piece that I ever create, I always
34:03
do a little write-up because I use a lot of
34:05
symbols and other things. And people may not be familiar
34:08
with what those symbols are, what they mean, et cetera.
34:10
So I try to do a little write-up and I
34:13
do a little mini YouTube channel talk on the piece,
34:16
unpacking what it means, unpacking, my inspiration, that type of thing.
34:20
So I had all these little vignettes that I had
34:24
written on each chakra because I would create the chakra.
34:27
I didn't do them in order. I did them in
34:29
whatever order spirit told me needed. Like this heart chakra
34:32
was actually the very last one. So going through the
34:35
process of reflecting at what spirit was working with me
34:38
on as I created each piece is part of the
34:42
dialogue for the book. And then I included some other
34:45
things that I wanted to be more didactic. So I
34:46
have an opening that talks about the chakras helping me
34:50
find ways you can locate them. Then I have some
34:52
charts on the back showing what colors are associated, what foods,
34:56
all that type of thing. So you get a whole picture.
34:58
So if you picked up the book and you didn't
34:59
know anything about chakras, you can still enjoy the images
35:02
if you just wanted to. You can still learn something
35:04
about the chakras and you can also get maybe some
35:06
spiritual insight from me talking about the insights that I
35:09
got as part of my process of what really was
35:12
helping me and see about myself and about life through
35:17
painting that chakra and studying the chakra. Beautiful.
35:21
Speaker 1: So I'm curious, was there anything that as you were
35:25
working with each of these chakras and obviously that having
35:28
a transformation on these different parts of you, was there
35:30
anything that came to you as a surprise, like something
35:32
that you learned that you're like, I didn't know that
35:34
about that chakra. I didn't know that about the energy
35:36
system in that way. Or wow, this is really cool,
35:39
but this wasn't what I expected, this feeling or this noticing.
35:43
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely. And I don't think that I would be
35:47
able to actually locate my chakra so easily after really
35:52
working with it. But when spending a time, a month
35:54
or five, six weeks, meditating on the same chakra, getting
35:58
a real feel for the energy and what it feels like,
36:01
and just the way the chakra spins, I learned a lot.
36:06
I grew a lot from the whole process. Could I
36:09
pinpoint one particular thing? It depends on the chakra. I
36:18
knew that starting with the throat, that was an issue
36:20
for me. I was having some real issues. I had
36:22
just left my, not too long after that, I had
36:26
left my day job to pursue this whole thing full time.
36:32
And I was trying to find my voice. What is
36:33
that going to be now? How am I going to
36:35
identify myself? And so I really needed to work on
36:38
this chakra about speaking my truth. And so this image
36:41
was showing me that and telling me, helping me to
36:44
work through that. And so each one, you know, like
36:47
I said, I'm really very selfish.
36:49
Speaker 1: And so did that actually help you to actually speak
36:51
your truth more after working with that chakra for those five, six,
36:54
seven weeks and doing that? Like you were able to
36:56
more easily step into the truth of speaking that?
36:59
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
37:02
Speaker 3: I'm very selfish, actually. I'm really just doing my own thing,
37:05
working out my own stuff. Anybody else gets to see.
37:09
Speaker 2: You know what?
37:10
Speaker 1: Every great author or person that I've heard with art
37:13
and everything and stuff that I've spoken to over the
37:15
years has all said, I was writing for myself or
37:18
I was doing this for myself.
37:20
Speaker 2: This was something I needed.
37:22
Speaker 1: And then it becomes when it's the truth of that,
37:25
instead of me thinking I have to help someone else,
37:27
or I need to do this for someone else. This
37:29
is something that must come through me because it's going
37:31
to support me. Then it becomes the work that the
37:34
world actually needs because it's, that's how the, that's how
37:38
it works.
37:38
Speaker 2: I think that's beautiful.
37:41
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
37:43
Speaker 1: Well, I'm, For those of you that are interested, we
37:58
have all of Damon's information down below. You can go
38:02
to the link for the book. You'll find out more
38:04
about our collaborative book that we're doing together, The Way
38:07
of the Initiate. All of that information is down there.
38:13
And so, Damon, we have, the world is changing. Things
38:18
are shifting right now. And I'd love for you to share, like,
38:24
what do you believe? is on the storefront or coming
38:31
for humanity? What is humanity being invited to create right now?
38:38
Speaker 3: I think we're being invited to imagine as a community
38:43
what is important. I know it seems like things are
38:47
getting worse and going to hell in a handbasket, but
38:51
I actually think this is the dissolution of some things
38:54
that has to come up. I really think we're invited
38:58
to think more collectively as a creative humanity about what
39:04
is important and who we want to be. I really
39:07
do truly believe that a lot of things that we've
39:10
been taking for granted of the way the world works
39:12
and the way life works, we're finding out they aren't.
39:15
Not just in terms of the governments or anything like that.
39:17
People empower that too, but also just in terms of
39:20
who we are as created beings, as manifested. And what
39:24
is really more important for us to manifest. Is it
39:27
really going to be all this just physical stuff and
39:30
looking at what we can acquire and make, or is
39:33
it going to be in developing who we are as
39:35
human beings and getting more in contact and connected with
39:38
our humanity? And I think that's happening, slowly but surely.
39:42
A lot of people are having all these spiritual experiences,
39:45
and they don't know how to interpret them. They don't
39:47
know what to do with them. And so they need
39:50
people like you and I to help at least give
39:53
them some ideas, help to provide, hold that space so
39:56
that they can begin to explore some of these ideas
39:58
and interpret what's happening to them and with them. Yeah.
40:03
Speaker 1: So we are living right now in an age where
40:06
AI is going crazy. And AI can write your thing,
40:11
create your art, do whatever.
40:14
Speaker 2: What do you hope.
40:18
Speaker 1: For, uh, in this time where AI can be so beneficial,
40:22
it can do some, there are many great things like
40:25
it run things and do that. I, I, I can
40:27
believe it can give us more time to be more creative,
40:30
but I also feel that it could absolutely suck away
40:32
our creativity at the same time. I have, I know
40:35
somebody that just recently put out a book and was like,
40:38
I just wrote this book and it turns out AI
40:40
wrote it.
40:40
Speaker 3: Right.
40:41
Speaker 2: So, um, so what do you think with With this.
40:44
Speaker 1: New AI and what the girl is going on, what
40:47
do you see happening with our own art and creativity?
40:51
Speaker 2: And what do you hope the benefit will be?
40:54
Speaker 3: I actually think in terms of an artist, this is
40:58
actually a great time to be a creator. simply because
41:02
of AI and all the things that it can do,
41:04
there's going to come a tipping point where people say, wow,
41:08
I really appreciate it. You actually wrote this. You've actually
41:11
painted this. It's not, you know, it's not something that's,
41:14
this is actually real. It's vintage. Right. It's real. Right. Yeah.
41:20
So I actually think this is actually going to be
41:22
to our benefit at some point. And so right now,
41:24
it seems like it's kind of taken over. But I
41:27
think those of us who hold on and continue to
41:31
stay with them more. We'll just say, for lack of
41:33
a better term, I don't like this term, but we'll
41:34
just say traditional. Ways of creating and methods of doing
41:38
things are going to find that we're going to be
41:41
looked upon in much higher esteem in another 15 years
41:45
or so.
41:47
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that way. And that's a
41:49
really beautiful way to look at it. The pendulum is
41:52
swinging this way for a while, but eventually people are
41:55
going to be like, we want the real stuff.
41:57
Speaker 2: Like, where's the real art? Where's the real writing?
42:00
Speaker 1: You know, and we'll truly, it's like when Kindle came out, right?
42:06
Speaker 2: The Kindle, everybody wanted a book on Kindle.
42:08
Speaker 3: Everybody wanted a book on Audible.
42:10
Speaker 1: And I'm like, and then I wanted to go back
42:12
to my book that had pages. And I really love
42:17
my book that has pages. And I'm so grateful for
42:20
my book that has pages, right? Like that's, but the
42:23
technology took it somewhere. It is great to have that.
42:26
Speaker 2: And then yet.
42:27
Speaker 1: Something about, The aesthetics, like you said, the aesthetics, the beauty,
42:32
the energy and the spirit that's in the art that
42:36
we are creating, the creativity that you create for the world,
42:39
that I create for the world, that other people do,
42:41
will never be felt the same through something from an AI.
42:47
We are energetic beings. We'll start to feel and notice
42:49
that the soul is missing from it.
42:52
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. And even just the fact that we have the
42:55
ability to do it. Like you said, a lot of people, unfortunately,
42:59
probably come sort of to me. They won't. Like, wow,
43:02
I can actually still do that. I can't even get
43:04
my mind now. I'm so used to just typing into
43:07
the screen, you know, whatever. I can do what I need. So, yeah,
43:10
I think that's what's going to happen. Good or ill. Yeah, beautiful.
43:16
Speaker 1: Damon, thank you so much for sharing today about your
43:19
work and your art and theology. And again, if you
43:23
want to connect with Damon, please go to the show
43:25
notes below, grab his new book, check out what he's doing,
43:29
go to the website, check out the art. We'll put
43:31
down a link. If you want to get some art,
43:33
buy some art, like look at the beautiful chakras. I
43:35
think I need some chakras in my house. And so, Damon,
43:38
we have one question that I always close the show with.
43:41
When you hear the phrase high on life, what does
43:45
it mean to you?
43:45
Speaker 3: I think it means finding your joy. I've been there
43:51
to make it work and get it to work all
43:53
the time. Sometimes things make it difficult, but I think
43:57
that's part of the goal. I think that you actually can.
44:00
And then I joined, so it works for life. Yeah, beautiful.
44:05
I love it.
44:05
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you so much, Damon.
44:09
Speaker 1: Take a moment and notice what shifted for you in
44:11
this episode. If something opened, clicked, or landed, share this
44:15
episode with someone in your life who's ready for more.
44:18
And if you're ready to experience a different kind of high,
44:21
one that comes from being fully present in your life,
44:24
not chasing something outside of you, download my free BlissRx
44:28
toolkit in the show notes. Inside, you'll find simple, powerful
44:32
practices to help you regulate your energy, shift your state,
44:35
and create more flow and synchronicity in your daily life.
44:38
Make sure you're following the show and I'll meet you
44:40
back here for the next episode.
44:42
Speaker 2: Get high on life.