Latest / Inside Politics / Best of 2024: Niki Savva on why the PM should retire, even if he does win the next election

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Best of 2024: Niki Savva on why the PM should retire, even if he does win the next election · Inside Politics

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  S1: Hi there. I'm Jacqueline Maley, the host of Inside Politics,
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  S1: The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald's weekly politics podcast.
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  S1: We're bringing you the best episodes of 2024 before we
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  S1: return in early February for the election year. In this
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  S1: special episode, which aired last month, respected columnist Niki Savva
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  S1: explains why Prime Minister Anthony Albanese should retire if he
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  S1: wins the next election. We're releasing this episode for you
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  S1: today on January 31st. Now, Niki, you had a column
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  S1: published in the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age on
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  S1: Thursday this week, which called for the Prime Minister to retire.
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  S1: For those who might not have read it, can you
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  S1: summarize your proposition for the Prime Minister?
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  S2: Okay. Well, it's really kind of summing up where the
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  S2: government is at the moment. And I think the think
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  S2: the government is in dire straits, and if a number
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  S2: of things don't change, particularly the Prime Minister's performance, then
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  S2: I do believe that Dutton will become prime minister at
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  S2: the election next year. So I've begun the column in
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  S2: a fairly, I think, gentle and respectful way to say
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  S2: that if the Prime Minister is lucky enough to win
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  S2: this election, then he really should step aside and allow
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  S2: someone else to take over. There has been a lot
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  S2: of chatter inside the wider labor family about the Prime
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  S2: Minister's performance. There's, putting it mildly, a fair bit of
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  S2: anxiety about where labor is at and how the Prime
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  S2: Minister is handling himself. So it's really been prompted by that.
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  S1: Yeah. So I mean, Labour obviously has a long and
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  S1: rather dark history of not backing its leaders. And, you know,
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  S1: for having the revolving door of leaders and you're essentially
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  S1: advocating for the for the same sort of thing, aren't you?
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  S1: You're saying if the Prime Minister is lucky enough or
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  S1: successful enough to win the next election, even if it's
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  S1: a minority government that he leads, he needs to step
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  S1: aside and let fresh blood take over, because he's not
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  S1: going to be the 2 or 3 term prime minister
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  S1: that he's said that he wants to be.
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  S2: Well, um, you know, there are some people who would
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  S2: say that he was lucky to get there in the
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  S2: first place. Right? I happen to think that he got
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  S2: there because it wasn't only an anti Morrison feeling. He
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  S2: did have the right strategy to get Labour into office.
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  S2: And I think if you if you get in so
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  S2: you win one election and then you win a second
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  S2: election Then really? That's pretty good going. That's two terms.
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  S2: That could be 4 or 5 years, which is actually
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  S2: longer than any other prime minister since John Howard. And
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  S2: that's pretty good going. And I don't think you should
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  S2: push your luck.
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  S1: Um, but you're essentially saying that you don't think Albanese
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  S1: is one of those sort of nation building, transformative prime
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  S1: ministers who do stay in the job for a long
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  S1: time and really change the nation and usher in great reforms?
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  S1: He's just not that guy.
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  S2: Well, I think his performance in the past six months
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  S2: has contributed, to a large extent, to the dire straits
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  S2: that labor is in at the moment. I think it
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  S2: takes him too long to resolve issues, and when he
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  S2: does set about trying to fix them, he doesn't handle
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  S2: them properly. I think he began very well as prime minister,
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  S2: and they succeeded in destabilising relations with China, which I
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  S2: think was a very good thing. They got two surpluses
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  S2: in a row, but I think ever since the May budget,
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  S2: he's just seeming to me to be in la la land.
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  S2: Issues crop up all the time in government sometimes. You know,
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  S2: we have crises. Sometimes we have, you know, annoying little
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  S2: things that should be fixed in a day. There have
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  S2: been a lot of those very annoying little things that
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  S2: have taken weeks to resolve.
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  S1: Can you give an example of that kind of thing?
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  S2: Okay. There's there's a whole list of them. Right. But
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  S2: I'll mention one. And that was the questions on gender
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  S2: in Gender in the census, and the first that his
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  S2: colleagues knew about that being a problem or an issue
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  S2: was when they heard about it on Sky TV from
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  S2: Andrew Clennell.
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  S3: And the government has elected not to change the census
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  S3: to include more questions around identity. Despite a push to
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  S3: do so, Sky news understands.
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  S2: It hit them. They were blindsided by that and then
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  S2: it dragged on for about a week.
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  S1: Yeah, I mean, this is for people who don't remember that.
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  S1: It's basically changes to the census question, which brought in
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  S1: broader questions of gender identity. And I think sexuality than
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  S1: than we'd had in before. And Albanese sort of came
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  S1: in and cancelled the new questions that had been proposed
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  S1: and managed kind of to offend everybody in the process.
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  S1: You know, the LGBTQ plus lobby as well as the
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  S1: sort of Sky news crew. Isn't that right?
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  S2: Well, he did he offended everybody. Um, instead of, you know, he,
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  S2: he was obviously worried that it was going to blow
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  S2: up into an issue, but his behavior turned it into
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  S2: a much bigger issue. I think that dragged on for
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  S2: days and days and days.
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  S4: This is the first time I've been asked about it. Uh,
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  S4: what there isn't going to be is whole holus bolus,
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  S4: massive changes to the census. Uh, because we think that
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  S4: it's been pretty effective in the past.
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  S2: It would have been possible to affix that in a
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  S2: single day. And and it wasn't fair. And so that
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  S2: distracted people from other, much more important things that the
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  S2: government might have been doing. It robbed them of an
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  S2: opportunity to sell some of their achievements. And that wasn't
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  S2: the only time that something like that happened. More recently, uh,
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  S2: we had his purchase of a $4 million Dollar beach house.
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  S5: Good morning. $4.3 million on a Copacabana mansion in New
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  S5: South Wales.
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  S6: But political rivals have hit out at the Prime Minister's
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  S6: purchase in the middle of a housing crisis.
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  S4: As a prime minister, I earn a good income. I
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  S4: understand that, I understand that I've been fortunate, but I
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  S4: also know what it's like.
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  S2: That still reverberates, right? No one is begrudging him buying
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  S2: a beach house, but did he really have to do
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  S2: it now in the middle of a cost of living crisis?
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  S2: He didn't tell any of his colleagues about it. Once again,
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  S2: they were blindsided by it. Once again, there was no
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  S2: opportunity for the government because this story took off in
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  S2: the media to talk about other things, the issues that
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  S2: that voters really care about, like low cost of living. Yeah.
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  S2: Then it happened Again and again and again. You know,
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  S2: with other peripheral issues that chew up a lot of
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  S2: time and make it seem as if the last thing
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  S2: on his mind is other people's problems.
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  S1: Yeah, yeah.
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  S2: That's been the most damaging thing for the government.
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  S1: The other example that you used in terms of questioning
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  S1: Albanese's judgment was his response to the Qantas flight upgrades,
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  S1: which was a few weeks ago now, where it was
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  S1: revealed or it was, you know, supposedly revealed in a
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  S1: book that he'd taken all these free upgrades that he
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  S1: hadn't declared. And as you say, that issue sort of
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  S1: bled on for the better part of a week. I mean,
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  S1: you write in your column that some of Albanese's colleagues
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  S1: have questioned his judgment. Is there any serious talk of
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  S1: dislodging him or of disloyalty towards him within the labor caucus?
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  S2: Not really. I mean, people were very badly burned by
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  S2: what happened with Rudd-gillard-rudd, right? So there's really, um, no
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  S2: appetite to remove him before the election. And in any case,
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  S2: it's too late. He wouldn't go quietly. And, you know,
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  S2: it would just leave people thinking, ah, here we go again.
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  S2: But that doesn't mean that they're, you know, not concerned
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  S2: and not anxious about what's been happening. What they want
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  S2: is for him to get his head straight.
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  S5: Mhm.
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  S2: You know like with the flight upgrades that was another
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  S2: thing that could have been fixed in a day or two,
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  S2: except according to what I was told. He thought it
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  S2: was a rubbish story. You know, that wasn't really worth
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  S2: responding to and that it would disappear in a couple
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  S2: of days. Well, it's been reverberating for weeks.
• 10:11
  S7: Hi. Morning edition listeners. If you're looking for a series
• 10:14
  S7: to binge over the break, I want to recommend Trial
• 10:17
  S7: by Water. It's a podcast by some of my colleagues
• 10:19
  S7: at The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. It's about
• 10:22
  S7: a man, Robert Farquharson, who was convicted of murdering his
• 10:25
  S7: three sons by driving them into a dam. And about
• 10:28
  S7: the people who are now questioning that conviction. Trial by
• 10:32
  S7: Water is a compelling and informative podcast series that will
• 10:35
  S7: make you question the way our justice system operates. So
• 10:38
  S7: please take a listen and recommend it to your friends. Thanks.
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  S1: I want to talk just quickly now about the opposition
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  S1: because you reserve some criticism for Peter Dutton. How do
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  S1: you think he's performed as Opposition leader?
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  S2: Well, I think it's fair to say much better than
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  S2: a lot of people expected. I think he's performing very
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  S2: well as an opposition leader. I'm not, you know, saying
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  S2: that that would make him a brilliant prime minister. I mean,
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  S2: we we have seen this before with Tony Abbott. He
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  S2: was one of the very best opposition leaders and then
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  S2: was an absolute dud as prime minister. But at the moment,
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  S2: Dutton is running rings around Albanese.
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  S8: It seems to me that the Prime minister just can't
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  S8: be trusted. I think his integrity is in question and
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  S8: I think he's.
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  S2: Setting the agenda.
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  S8: But there's nothing the Prime Minister said that's coherent, other
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  S8: than he picked the phone up to Alan Joyce to
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  S8: request an upgrade of airfares, which is something that I
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  S8: just don't think he can provide an explanation to it.
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  S8: I'm not aware of any.
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  S2: And when it comes to questions about his own policies
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  S2: or his own behaviour, he's able to just swap them
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  S2: away and walk away.
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  S1: Yeah. I mean, you make that comment in the column,
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  S1: which I thought was interesting that, yeah, he doesn't he
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  S1: doesn't get a lot of scrutiny. And he pops up
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  S1: very sort of randomly pops up here. He pops up there,
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  S1: but he doesn't often Submit to full length grillings in
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  S1: the media. I want to ask you now about the
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  S1: teal independents because, well, it was a bit timely this
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  S1: week because Paul Fletcher, who's the member for Bradfield, which
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  S1: is a seat here in New South Wales, was a
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  S1: safe Liberal seat, although it was under attack from a
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  S1: community independent at the last election. Paul Fletcher He gave
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  S1: a speech this week at the Sydney Institute, where he
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  S1: said that the teals were, quote, a green left con
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  S1: job funded by billionaires and that basically they were women
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  S1: who sort of dressed themselves up in liberal clothing, if
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  S1: you like, but a really green left wolves underneath. What
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  S1: did you make of that speech, Nicky?
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  S2: Well, you know, on the one hand, I couldn't stop
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  S2: laughing because it's a cardinal rule, isn't it? The voters
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  S2: always get it right. But Paul Fletcher decided, you know,
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  S2: stroke of genius to go out there and call his
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  S2: constituents idiots, that they really didn't know what they were doing,
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  S2: that they were being taken in by these women who
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  S2: you've got to say are pretty smart, and that's why
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  S2: they won.
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  S9: The tears, then, are very much in the tradition of
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  S9: front groups established by left wing political operatives, which are
• 13:27
  S9: designed to lure votes away from the Liberal Party by
• 13:30
  S9: tricking voters about the bona fides. As with other groups,
• 13:34
  S9: over time, many of the campaign volunteers are members of
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  S9: unions or the Labor Party or the Greens political party,
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  S9: and have simply put on a different t shirt for
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  S9: a few weeks.
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  S2: That being said, and I think that doesn't augur very
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  S2: well for Mr. Fletcher's chances at the next election. He
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  S2: was in a lot of trouble anyway, but people knew
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  S2: exactly what they were doing at the last election. They
• 14:01
  S2: were sending a message to the Liberal Party that they
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  S2: needed to do better. They're also sending the same message
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  S2: to labor, by the way. Um, you know, change or die. Yeah. And, uh,
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  S2: I think that message, um, is still there. And Mr.
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  S2: Fletcher showed that he didn't get it then, and he
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  S2: doesn't get it now.
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  S1: Yeah, it might have been a sort of terrible act
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  S1: of self-sabotage on his part. We'll see, I suppose. I'm interested.
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  S1: Do you think that the teal independents have fulfilled their promise?
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  S1: They were elected with such high hopes at the 2020 election,
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  S1: as you and I have sort of said to each
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  S1: other off air, the election of all those teal crossbenchers
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  S1: was one of the greatest revolutions that we've seen in
• 14:47
  S1: in our politics, I think for decades. For the first time,
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  S1: we had almost a sort of even third, third, third
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  S1: split between the two major parties and then crossbenchers and
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  S1: independents and Greens. You know, it seemed like a structural
• 15:00
  S1: pivotal shift that was not going backwards anytime soon. Do
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  S1: you think that's the case? Do you agree with that?
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  S1: Do you think the teals are kind of here to stay?
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  S2: Definitely. They're here to stay. They're going to be very
• 15:11
  S2: hard to dislodge and they're going to expand and their
• 15:17
  S2: influence will only keep increasing. I mean, I think they've
• 15:22
  S2: all performed, uh, really very well in their own way.
• 15:26
  S2: I think, you know, like I say, they're they're very smart.
• 15:30
  S2: I find them all, uh, pretty impressive. And someone who
• 15:35
  S2: knows them all said to me recently described them as
• 15:39
  S2: alpha females. And I think that's pretty right. I think
• 15:44
  S2: if we do end up with a minority government, that
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  S2: they will play a pivotal role in the next Parliament,
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  S2: and I think that will be a good thing.
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  S1: You pretty much just answered my question, but I wanted
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  S1: to ask you whether or not Australians should be worried
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  S1: about the prospect of a minority government at the next
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  S1: election or after the next election that is reliant on
• 16:06
  S1: negotiation with the crossbench. We've had one experience in recent
• 16:10
  S1: times of a minority government and and it didn't end well,
• 16:13
  S1: you could say. Nikki.
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  S2: Well, It didn't end well because of the tensions between
• 16:22
  S2: the leadership, you know, with Gillard and Rudd. You know,
• 16:25
  S2: that ran all the way through that term. But they
• 16:30
  S2: did achieve quite a few things in those three years.
• 16:33
  S2: We've got a carbon price, we've got the NDIS. And
• 16:38
  S2: I've just finished reading quarterly essay by George Megalogenis, who's
• 16:43
  S2: also a colleague of ours. It's an excellent essay called
• 16:49
  S2: Minority Report, and he basically concludes by saying, we don't
• 16:54
  S2: have anything to fear from it. Um, because, um, I
• 16:59
  S2: think the sort of people that, you know, we do
• 17:04
  S2: have in the Parliament now, uh, in, in those seats, uh,
• 17:10
  S2: are conscientious. They have a reasonably good policies when it
• 17:15
  S2: comes to, say, Allegra Spender with her tax reform policies
• 17:21
  S2: and also on climate and and various other issues. And
• 17:26
  S2: I think forcing the major parties to negotiate to actually
• 17:31
  S2: get things done is probably a very good thing.
• 17:36
  S1: I want to ask you, just because we ask everyone this,
• 17:38
  S1: even though it's pure speculation, when do you think Albanese
• 17:41
  S1: might call the next election, or when would it be
• 17:43
  S1: sort of good for him to do so in terms
• 17:46
  S1: of his own government's prospects?
• 17:48
  S2: Well, I get the impression that he's itching to call
• 17:51
  S2: it right, and I think that would be a mistake.
• 17:55
  S2: I think he's best to wait until May, which is
• 17:59
  S2: when his term expires. He's best to in the interim.
• 18:04
  S2: Like I say, get his head straight and stop making
• 18:08
  S2: mistakes and start performing in the way people expect a
• 18:12
  S2: prime minister to perform. And I think that would be
• 18:16
  S2: his best chance of staying in office.
• 18:22
  S1: Yeah, Nicky, that has been such an interesting chat, and
• 18:25
  S1: it's always so good to have you on the podcast.
• 18:27
  S1: We really appreciate you making time. If people haven't read
• 18:29
  S1: Nicky's column from this week, you can read it on
• 18:31
  S1: the age of the Sydney Morning Herald website. It's a
• 18:33
  S1: real cracker.
• 18:35
  S2: Thank you Jacqueline.
• 18:38
  S1: Today's episode of Inside Politics was produced by Chee Wong
• 18:41
  S1: with technical assistance by Belen Sanchez. Our executive producer is
• 18:46
  S1: Tammy Mills. Our head of audio is Tom McKendrick. Inside
• 18:50
  S1: politics is a production of The Age and The Sydney
• 18:52
  S1: Morning Herald. If you enjoy this show and want more
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  S1: or Smh.com.au. Subscribe. I'm Jacqueline Maley, this is inside politics.
• 19:09
  S1: Thanks for listening.