Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / Cold Emails to Hot Takes with Jon Morosi

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Cold Emails to Hot Takes with Jon Morosi · Rosters to Rings Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters, to Rings everyone. I am Ryan McDonough,
0:08
Speaker 1: joined as always by Thad Levine. That just a few
0:11
Speaker 1: minutes we're going to have on John Paul Morosi. You've
0:14
Speaker 1: seen him on the MLB Network, You've seen him at
0:17
Speaker 1: Major League ballparks covering Major League Baseball. You've also heard
0:21
Speaker 1: him on his podcast, The Road to Cooper's Town. We'll
0:24
Speaker 1: get into all that with John Paul here in just
0:26
Speaker 1: a few minutes, but that where I want to start
0:28
Speaker 1: the show today. Now that we're into October, college football
0:32
Speaker 1: is in full swing. NFL teams have played either four
0:35
Speaker 1: or five games each and NBA preseason is underway. Teams
0:39
Speaker 1: are going abroad and playing games all over the US
0:42
Speaker 1: as well. But that where I want to start this show,
0:44
Speaker 1: especially having you on, is with the Major League Baseball playoffs.
0:48
Speaker 1: They're the most exciting thing going on in sports right now.
0:51
Speaker 1: And one of the sad realities of the playoffs getting
0:54
Speaker 1: started is it means a number of team seasons have
0:57
Speaker 1: ended and those teams have made significant changes, either in
1:00
Speaker 1: the front office and or with the manager. So that
1:03
Speaker 1: our first question, we're gonna start with a listener question.
1:06
Speaker 1: Today's listeners question is from Ruthie and Lee's summit Missouri,
1:10
Speaker 1: and he wants to know that. Can you provide insights
1:13
Speaker 1: into the number of managerial changes that have happened so far,
1:17
Speaker 1: even though the MLB Playoffs are just beginning.
1:19
Speaker 2: Well, Ryan, you know, it's a terrible time and we
1:21
Speaker 2: probably should dedicate a whole show to what goes into
1:25
Speaker 2: these decisions from an executive standpoint. But there have been
1:29
Speaker 2: eight managerial openings. What one change has already been made?
1:32
Speaker 2: The Texas Rangers relieved Bruce Bochie, future Hall of Famer,
1:37
Speaker 2: of his role and they've placed him with Skip Schumacher,
1:39
Speaker 2: who Shoemaker, who is probably one of the most coveted
1:43
Speaker 2: guys on the market, and he's already signed with the
1:46
Speaker 2: Texas Rangers. But keep in mind, so eight teams have openings. Well,
1:50
Speaker 2: eight teams are still playing, so it means eight of
1:52
Speaker 2: the twenty two have already made managerial changes. That doesn't
1:55
Speaker 2: mean one of the eight teams that are in the
1:56
Speaker 2: playoffs may make a managerial change, but eight already are available,
2:00
Speaker 2: so seven are open, and not all of these are
2:02
Speaker 2: created equal. I think there's the natural grouping of teams
2:06
Speaker 2: that probably relieved their managers due to a degree of
2:09
Speaker 2: underachievement and struggles that they had over the last couple
2:11
Speaker 2: of years, and that would be Anaheim, Baltimore, Colorado, Minnesota,
2:16
Speaker 2: and Washington. I think the change in San Francisco falls
2:19
Speaker 2: under a little bit of a different category. There, Bob
2:22
Speaker 2: Melvin gets relieved of his job. Some of it had
2:25
Speaker 2: to do with underachievement for the team this year, but
2:27
Speaker 2: probably more was correlated to the fact that Buster Posey
2:30
Speaker 2: was hired last year. Bob Melvin had been hired by
2:33
Speaker 2: the previous general manager, Farhan Zaiety, and most general managers
2:37
Speaker 2: want to have their own manager, and so I think
2:39
Speaker 2: part of Bob's dismissal probably was for Buster to have
2:43
Speaker 2: an opportunity to hire his guy in that role. And then, lastly,
2:46
Speaker 2: the Atlanta Braves. Brian Snicker, who's an incredible story, is
2:49
Speaker 2: a guy who has worked fifty years in the Atlanta
2:52
Speaker 2: Braves organization, which is just an incredible accomplishment for him.
2:56
Speaker 2: Basically has just decided to step down. He's going to
2:58
Speaker 2: stay with the organization in an advisory role enjoy his
3:02
Speaker 2: fifty first season with the organization. Now, if you want
3:05
Speaker 2: to talk a little bit more specifically about each of
3:07
Speaker 2: these opportunities. You know, starting with Anaheim, they've strung together, unfortunately,
3:12
Speaker 2: ten consecutive losing seasons. Their MANAGERI will hire this oufseason
3:17
Speaker 2: will be their fifth since twenty nineteen. Just as a
3:20
Speaker 2: point of reference, the Atlanta Braves are kind of the
3:22
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Steelers of Major League Baseball. They're hier this offseason.
3:26
Speaker 2: Will be the fourth manager since nineteen ninety, so five
3:30
Speaker 2: since twenty nineteen. The other organization has had four since
3:33
Speaker 2: twenty at nineteen ninety. Not surprising, the Atlanta Braves over
3:36
Speaker 2: that time frame have won a lot more games than
3:38
Speaker 2: the Anaheim Angels have. The lack of security I think
3:43
Speaker 2: in the what's been described in an MLB dot com
3:45
Speaker 2: and their recent article about these openings is that, in
3:49
Speaker 2: addition that the Anaheim Angels owner Artie Moreno will be
3:52
Speaker 2: more involved in this higher than potentially their general manager Perrymanacian.
3:56
Speaker 2: I think that will give some candidate's pause as to
3:59
Speaker 2: the stability of the opportunity in Anaheim. Baltimore's next manager
4:03
Speaker 2: inherits an extremely talented young core of players who just
4:08
Speaker 2: didn't click on also this year due to some performance flagging,
4:12
Speaker 2: but also some injuries they've got a great farm system,
4:14
Speaker 2: they've got a progressive front office, and by all signs,
4:18
Speaker 2: new ownership is only enhancing the attractiveness of that job.
4:22
Speaker 2: You know, the only real thing that they have to
4:23
Speaker 2: deal with there is the vaunted Al East and how
4:27
Speaker 2: competitive that division is. But otherwise I think that looks
4:29
Speaker 2: like a very very intriguing job. Colorado and Washington fall
4:33
Speaker 2: in the same bucket. They both have interim managers their
4:36
Speaker 2: Warren Schaeffer and Miguel Cairo, So there's a possibility those
4:39
Speaker 2: interim tags will be lifted, those guys will be named manager.
4:42
Speaker 2: But if not, I think Colorado represents really a blank slate.
4:45
Speaker 2: There'll be a lot of intriguing minds that want to
4:48
Speaker 2: go in there and try to help that franchise see
4:50
Speaker 2: if they can win an altitude. Washington is an interesting
4:54
Speaker 2: case too, because you start with a tremendous young player
4:57
Speaker 2: in James Wood, a tremendous young a pitcher in Mackenzie.
5:00
Speaker 2: I think the question is when you get good, would
5:02
Speaker 2: those players still be there or they have matriculated a
5:05
Speaker 2: free agency by them. Minnesota is in a clear state
5:08
Speaker 2: of upheaval. They really traded the Lion's share of their
5:11
Speaker 2: players at the trade deadline, but they do have an
5:14
Speaker 2: intriguing core luck and they really bolstered their farm system.
5:18
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of a change in ownership as
5:21
Speaker 2: there's new cash in fusion, which hopefully will stabilize that
5:24
Speaker 2: franchise and really determine how attractive that job will be
5:28
Speaker 2: moving forward, and then wrapping up. The Giants are kind
5:31
Speaker 2: of like the Orioles in my opinion, in the sense
5:33
Speaker 2: that they're in a win now mode, but they're also
5:35
Speaker 2: an extremely difficult division. It's a more mature payroll than Baltimore,
5:40
Speaker 2: less flexibility, but they're really poised to strike right now.
5:44
Speaker 2: The Braves have by far the most talent to the
5:46
Speaker 2: major league level. There's a reason that they were preseason
5:49
Speaker 2: picked this season to be the second best roster in
5:52
Speaker 2: the game. They're returning most of those players, if healthy,
5:56
Speaker 2: that team will be a playoff caliber team heading into
5:59
Speaker 2: the next season, probably the only of the seven that
6:03
Speaker 2: would fall under that care category. Right as we talk
6:07
Speaker 2: about all this, there's a lot of change that we're
6:09
Speaker 2: discussing here. Why do you take the listeners through the
6:12
Speaker 2: other side of this, which is now that you're trying
6:14
Speaker 2: to build out a candidate pool. What process did you
6:17
Speaker 2: go through in the NBA to hire the next manager
6:20
Speaker 2: or the next head coach for your franch.
6:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are two different ways to approach it that
6:25
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying either ones right or wrong. It's
6:27
Speaker 1: they're just different depending on where your organization is at
6:30
Speaker 1: the time. And as far as the development cycle, are
6:33
Speaker 1: you trying to develop young players and build something over
6:35
Speaker 1: a longer period of time or are you trying to
6:37
Speaker 1: win right now, which sounds like in the MLB that's
6:39
Speaker 1: probably the Atlanta Braves who were among the World Series
6:42
Speaker 1: favorites coming into the year but missed the playoffs entirely.
6:45
Speaker 1: So those are some different skill sets you're looking for
6:48
Speaker 1: from a manager in MLB or a head coach in
6:50
Speaker 1: the NBA. It seemed like the Texas Rangers in Major
6:54
Speaker 1: League Baseball knew what they wanted Wishumacher in house. I
6:57
Speaker 1: think he was a consultant this past year and move quickly.
7:00
Speaker 1: And that's always one of the dilemmas that do you
7:03
Speaker 1: move quickly, especially if there are seven or eight current
7:06
Speaker 1: managerial openings available and potentially more, as you said earlier
7:11
Speaker 1: in the show, depending on how the playoffs go or
7:14
Speaker 1: are you deliberate and patient and you go through a
7:17
Speaker 1: process and realize that you may miss out on some
7:20
Speaker 1: of the top candidates, but you'd rather be strategic and
7:23
Speaker 1: take your time, and if guys go off the board
7:25
Speaker 1: because they're hired elsewhere, so be it. So that's always
7:27
Speaker 1: a challenge, and to some extent, it's like pre agency
7:31
Speaker 1: for coaches right or managers. You're doing the same thing
7:33
Speaker 1: with players. You always have to figure out how patient
7:36
Speaker 1: are we willing to be, how long are we willing
7:38
Speaker 1: to wait? And so I think from my experience, the
7:42
Speaker 1: times where we had a thorough process it was better
7:45
Speaker 1: than the times where we were rushed a little bit.
7:47
Speaker 1: I've always thought that even if the interim guy is
7:51
Speaker 1: going to be hired, which we've seen, you know, work
7:53
Speaker 1: at varying degrees of success across sports, you should at
7:56
Speaker 1: least interview a number of other people. If nothing else
7:59
Speaker 1: that I thought it was a great time to get
8:00
Speaker 1: outside perspectives and gain ideas and information about what other
8:04
Speaker 1: teams are doing best practices across player development, scouting, training, communication, etc.
8:11
Speaker 1: It's really the only time you can ask somebody from
8:13
Speaker 1: another club, Hey, tell me almost exactly what you guys
8:16
Speaker 1: do and how you do it, and you can learn
8:18
Speaker 1: a lot, especially from the guys working for a successful organization.
8:21
Speaker 1: So I always tried to take that time to network
8:24
Speaker 1: to learn some things. You don't want to waste anybody's time,
8:27
Speaker 1: to be clear, But I thought the processes that were
8:30
Speaker 1: robust and thorough ended up better than the ones where
8:34
Speaker 1: maybe they say, well, this guy's been here as interim,
8:36
Speaker 1: let's just hire him, or this is the hot buzzy
8:39
Speaker 1: name and other teams have interest. So you know, you
8:41
Speaker 1: get caught up kind of in the thrill of the chase,
8:43
Speaker 1: and you don't want to fall behind, so let's expedite
8:46
Speaker 1: our processes to go I'll get this guy before another
8:49
Speaker 1: team hires him. But that is the challenge and something
8:52
Speaker 1: that I think is pretty universal across sports. NBA coaching
8:56
Speaker 1: agents that as you can imagine, you know, they make
8:58
Speaker 1: a lot of money if their clients make a lot
9:00
Speaker 1: of money, so they will try to leverage and press say, hey, fad,
9:03
Speaker 1: this guy's got interest elsewhere. This team may hire him.
9:06
Speaker 1: You got to take him off the market, or he
9:08
Speaker 1: has another offer on the table. You need to put
9:10
Speaker 1: a better offer for him to come with you. Guys,
9:12
Speaker 1: so resisting that pressure or appropriately managing it, especially if
9:17
Speaker 1: you are open, especially if you're not certain here your
9:19
Speaker 1: head coach, your manager is going to be. I think
9:21
Speaker 1: the teams that do that well are the ones who
9:23
Speaker 1: end up with the right guy. And it's easy to
9:26
Speaker 1: get caught up in the moment that as we know,
9:28
Speaker 1: but I think you have to look at these things
9:30
Speaker 1: hopefully over a multi year time horizon. Who's the best candidate,
9:33
Speaker 1: not just for next week, next month, or next year,
9:36
Speaker 1: but hopefully for the next five or ten years. And
9:39
Speaker 1: I do think though organizational track record plays a big
9:41
Speaker 1: part of it. I work for two UMBA organizations. The
9:44
Speaker 1: Celtics were and still are very stable, The Phoenix Suns
9:48
Speaker 1: were not sounds like the Atlanta Braves, and one end
9:51
Speaker 1: of the spectrum the Anaheim Angels.
9:53
Speaker 2: On the other.
9:54
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball history repeats itself that. So I just say,
9:58
Speaker 1: as an executive or head coach, evaluating the cityuations, be
10:00
Speaker 1: a little bit careful and selective, especially if you have choices,
10:03
Speaker 1: because if a team's had five managers in six or
10:06
Speaker 1: seven years, that's probably more reflective on the organization than
10:10
Speaker 1: it is on any one individual candidate.
10:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and I think you nailed it. A past
10:14
Speaker 2: practices are the best indication of future behavior, and so
10:18
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be surprised when they continue to behave Similarly,
10:22
Speaker 2: I just a few things I touch on, and I
10:24
Speaker 2: think this is a bigger segment for another episode. You know,
10:28
Speaker 2: I think you nailed it. Are you hiring somebody who's
10:30
Speaker 2: a development guy or a guy who is trying to
10:33
Speaker 2: win now? I think when we hired Roco Baldelli in Minnesota,
10:36
Speaker 2: one thing that we went through, I'm sure you've done
10:38
Speaker 2: this exercises. We literally brainstorm to put up fifty things
10:41
Speaker 2: that we want in the next manager, and then we
10:43
Speaker 2: really had to nail down what are the non negotiables,
10:45
Speaker 2: and you have to identify three or four things that
10:48
Speaker 2: are so important and then stick with that as best
10:51
Speaker 2: you can, because you don't want to narrow the field
10:52
Speaker 2: so much that there aren't that many people out there.
10:55
Speaker 2: Other things that we had to consider once again, I
10:57
Speaker 2: think we should discuss this more in detail later. Is
10:59
Speaker 2: the benefits of interviewing people from within when you weren't
11:03
Speaker 2: sure if they really were going to get the job,
11:05
Speaker 2: but you wanted to give them respect and or the
11:07
Speaker 2: experience like balancing the benefits of that versus then having
11:12
Speaker 2: to tell them they probably weren't getting the job and
11:14
Speaker 2: their hopes were up. And so I think there's a
11:18
Speaker 2: lot of elements that go into this that are so significant.
11:21
Speaker 2: But one of the biggest evolutions in baseball that I
11:23
Speaker 2: found is we used to hire managers who had very
11:25
Speaker 2: hard and fast systems. It was their way or the highway,
11:29
Speaker 2: and you were hiring a system. Now you really have
11:31
Speaker 2: to hire somebody who's capable of stimulating the growth and
11:34
Speaker 2: development of every single player, as diverse as they may
11:37
Speaker 2: be in your clubhouse. It's a very different skill set
11:39
Speaker 2: you're hiring for now in baseball.
11:41
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, and again depends on where you are in
11:43
Speaker 1: the cycle too. If it's a development based you want
11:47
Speaker 1: somebody who's probably more collaborative, willing to work with the
11:50
Speaker 1: front office, you know better at getting on the court
11:53
Speaker 1: or having a staff get on the court with young
11:54
Speaker 1: players and build something over time. You know we're going
11:58
Speaker 1: to have on John Paul Morossi and the minute of
12:00
Speaker 1: the Pistons fan.
12:01
Speaker 3: I think JB.
12:01
Speaker 1: Bickerstaff and his staff have done a nice job of
12:03
Speaker 1: that in Detroit. If you're a championship contending team, and
12:08
Speaker 1: your goal is to win a championship next year or
12:11
Speaker 1: compete as best you can for a championship. Let's take
12:13
Speaker 1: the Milwaukee Bucks for example, that that they went with
12:16
Speaker 1: a young coach a few years ago, Adrian Griffin, a
12:19
Speaker 1: first time coach. His record was actually pretty good, but
12:21
Speaker 1: they made a very quick decision halfway through his rookie
12:24
Speaker 1: year as a coach that he's not going to be
12:26
Speaker 1: the guy who brings the honis and the franchise the
12:29
Speaker 1: second championship. Well, the great freak is in a Bucks uniform,
12:32
Speaker 1: so they quickly moved to Doc Rivers, an experienced championship
12:35
Speaker 1: veteran head coach. So that's the pressure and a change
12:38
Speaker 1: is what the Charlotte Hornets are looking for. Is probably
12:42
Speaker 1: different than Okase. He's a bad example, but say if
12:45
Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors were to move on from Steve Kerr,
12:47
Speaker 1: what they would be looking for with the team in
12:49
Speaker 1: the mid thirties, who has a very tight championship window
12:52
Speaker 1: but a legitimate chance with the talent on their roster.
12:55
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break right here. Coming
12:58
Speaker 1: back after this, We're going to get with John Paul Morosi,
13:00
Speaker 1: major League Baseball insider, stay with us on Rosters Drank.
13:15
Speaker 2: Welcome back to roster Ster Rings alongside Ryan McDonough, I
13:18
Speaker 2: am Thad Levine. We are fired up to be joined
13:22
Speaker 2: today by John Paul Morosi. Born in Marquette, Michigan, John
13:25
Speaker 2: was a three sport athlete and editor of the school
13:28
Speaker 2: paper in high school. John continued his career at amateur
13:31
Speaker 2: athletics and sports journalism while attending Harvard. John started his
13:35
Speaker 2: professional career covering the Seattle Mariners for the Seattle Post
13:38
Speaker 2: Intelligencer before moving back home to cover the Detroit Tigers
13:42
Speaker 2: for the Detroit Free Press. In two thousand and nine,
13:45
Speaker 2: John joined Fox Sports as a writer and an honor
13:48
Speaker 2: air talent. In twenty sixteen, John was hired by Major
13:51
Speaker 2: League Baseball Network. Today, John is one of the foremost
13:54
Speaker 2: baseball journalists, a prominent radio host, a fixture of MLB
13:59
Speaker 2: Network and nh ON Network. In a podcast host, John,
14:03
Speaker 2: welcome to Rosters to Rings.
14:05
Speaker 3: That and Ryan, thank you so much for that very
14:07
Speaker 3: kind of introduction. I certainly didn't deserve one of that length,
14:11
Speaker 3: but I appreciate it nonetheless, And that if I could
14:15
Speaker 3: actually add in one line to that is that I
14:19
Speaker 3: had the great honor of serving while I was in
14:22
Speaker 3: college as a Boston Globe sports desk nighthawk, which Ryan
14:28
Speaker 3: knows well because of course of his dad's amazing career
14:31
Speaker 3: at the Globe. And there was one time early in
14:35
Speaker 3: my college career when when Ryan's dad was there actually
14:40
Speaker 3: getting ready to submit his Baseball Hall of Fame ballot,
14:43
Speaker 3: and I had I still have this recollection of exactly
14:46
Speaker 3: where I was standing Ryan in the the on the
14:48
Speaker 3: old newsroom Morrissey Boulevard, standing there. The great Jim Hoban
14:52
Speaker 3: is there running the desk, and your dad is there
14:56
Speaker 3: with his Hall of Fame ballot. I'm thinking to myself,
14:58
Speaker 3: I'm in the presence of Will McDonough and Will McDonough's
15:01
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame ballot. This is the big league. This
15:04
Speaker 3: was unreal. And and Ryan, for me to be able
15:07
Speaker 3: to spend some time around your dad and Bob Ryan
15:10
Speaker 3: and all the greats and that in that department. Dan Shaughnessy, Uh,
15:13
Speaker 3: that was again. I would say Harvard was the Boston
15:18
Speaker 3: Globe Sports Department of universities, if I could turn that
15:21
Speaker 3: phrase around, Because I learned a ton by reading your
15:24
Speaker 3: dad and spend some time around him there. So I
15:26
Speaker 3: just wanted to say, this is our first interaction here,
15:29
Speaker 3: but grateful to have had connections there to your family
15:32
Speaker 3: going back. Uh no, I.
15:33
Speaker 1: Appreciate it, John, And where I thought you were going
15:35
Speaker 1: with that story knowing my father was that he handed
15:38
Speaker 1: you the ballot and said, here, kid, you fill this out.
15:40
Speaker 1: You know, I want to go do something else. That's
15:42
Speaker 1: that's what he used to do with my sister and I.
15:44
Speaker 1: They had these NFL expert pickstad in the Boston Globe
15:48
Speaker 1: every Sunday morning. The experts you mentioned, Bob Ryan and others.
15:51
Speaker 1: They were supposed to pick, you know, Lee montfhil who
15:53
Speaker 1: they liked in each football game that weekend in the
15:56
Speaker 1: NFL with the spread and all that. And there were
15:58
Speaker 1: times for my dad didn't feel like doing it. So
16:01
Speaker 1: he'd hand the phone to myself or my sister, who
16:03
Speaker 1: was probably a seven year old girl at that time,
16:05
Speaker 1: and say here, you guys do this and you know,
16:07
Speaker 1: and my sister'd be like, oh, I like Dan Marino,
16:09
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's cute. I like the Dolphins colors.
16:12
Speaker 1: And then sure enough we'd be out and about and
16:13
Speaker 1: in a supermarket is somewhere and we bump into a
16:16
Speaker 1: guy and he come up to my father and shake
16:17
Speaker 1: his hand and say, hey, will I just want to
16:19
Speaker 1: thank you. I've bet a lot of money every week
16:22
Speaker 1: on your picks, and you were eleven and three last
16:23
Speaker 1: week whatever it was, And little did he know it
16:26
Speaker 1: was a ten year old boy and his seven year
16:28
Speaker 1: old girl who were calling in the picks on a whim.
16:33
Speaker 3: That is perfect and right.
16:34
Speaker 4: I wasn't gonna say that, but there may have been
16:37
Speaker 4: a time as your dad was getting ready to submit
16:40
Speaker 4: that ballot where he was asking the desk generally what
16:43
Speaker 4: their opinion was of Alan travel, and being the proud
16:46
Speaker 4: Michigana that I am, mister McDonough, I would wholeheartedly endorse
16:50
Speaker 4: Allan travel for the Hall of Fame. So I'm not
16:53
Speaker 4: sure if your dad voted for him that particular.
16:55
Speaker 3: Year, but I did argue my case. Look at his numbers,
16:58
Speaker 3: they're certainly much like Barry Larkins there in some ways
17:02
Speaker 3: like their jeters if you really look at it. I
17:04
Speaker 3: may have made my very Midwestern advocacy, but I'm not
17:09
Speaker 3: entirely sure Ryan, if your dad actually checked the box
17:12
Speaker 3: there beside trans name be that as it may he
17:14
Speaker 3: is now in the Hall of Fame. So all's well,
17:16
Speaker 3: that ends.
17:16
Speaker 2: Well, you needed to start laying the groundwork for a
17:19
Speaker 2: little Whitaker a little bit earlier.
17:20
Speaker 3: I know, I know that was a whiff by my
17:24
Speaker 3: brethren there in the Baseball RGI Association of America for sure.
17:28
Speaker 2: Well, John. One of our traditions on rosters to rings
17:31
Speaker 2: as we ask every guest to talk about their sports
17:33
Speaker 2: origin story, how did you fall in love with sports?
17:37
Speaker 3: Well that it's a great question, and fittingly here in
17:40
Speaker 3: the midst of the baseball postseason, in which the Tigers
17:43
Speaker 3: are rather improbably a part to this point, given the
17:47
Speaker 3: way that things unfolded for them down the stretch of
17:50
Speaker 3: the regular season. I grew up in Michigan as a
17:52
Speaker 3: fan of the Tigers, and their run to the American
17:56
Speaker 3: League East title in nineteen eighty seven was one of
17:59
Speaker 3: my first core sports memories. That was the year I
18:02
Speaker 3: went to my first Tigers game with my dad at
18:04
Speaker 3: Tiger Stadium. Alan Trammel should have been the MVP that year,
18:08
Speaker 3: finished a close second to George Bell, but he did
18:11
Speaker 3: bat three forty three. He did get the Tigers into
18:13
Speaker 3: the postseason that season, so that to me, you know,
18:16
Speaker 3: loving baseball was a huge part of it. There in
18:19
Speaker 3: the eighties, some really and then into the nineties, some
18:23
Speaker 3: really fun and charismatic teams that I had a chance
18:26
Speaker 3: to watch as a kid. If you take from so
18:29
Speaker 3: from eighty seven through I graduated high school in two thousand,
18:33
Speaker 3: that includes the Bad Boys in basketball, which those teams
18:36
Speaker 3: I loved, and certainly Ryan we could touch on that.
18:40
Speaker 3: There are many of us who believe that it should
18:42
Speaker 3: have been a three peat that there was, that Lambier
18:45
Speaker 3: still hasn't fouled Kareem remarkably. And even if you go
18:48
Speaker 3: back to the previous year, if if Dantley and Bennie
18:51
Speaker 3: Johnson don't collide heads at the garden and all those things,
18:54
Speaker 3: maybe the Pistons actually win four in a row. But
18:56
Speaker 3: we'll leave that discussion there for now. And then you
18:59
Speaker 3: go into the nineties and you had the Fab five,
19:02
Speaker 3: you had the Russian five with the Red Wings, you
19:04
Speaker 3: had the Flintstones in Michigan State basketball. Later on, you
19:07
Speaker 3: had Barry Sanders' career. So there was just a lot
19:09
Speaker 3: of really not just great teams, but culturally significant moments
19:15
Speaker 3: in sports that encapsulated my childhood and I played. As
19:19
Speaker 3: you referenced, that played might have been too strong of
19:23
Speaker 3: a description. You very charitably left out my record as
19:26
Speaker 3: a high school quarterback, which was a robust two and sixteen.
19:30
Speaker 3: So I ascertained very easily and quickly that I would
19:34
Speaker 3: be much better talking about sports than playing them. I
19:37
Speaker 3: got to Harvard, as you mentioned, played JB baseball there. Again,
19:42
Speaker 3: it was a fun thing to do, is to wear
19:45
Speaker 3: that school's name on your chest, even though I wasn't
19:47
Speaker 3: a very good player. I wasn't a varsity player, certainly,
19:51
Speaker 3: But along that time, and I referenced a bit earlier,
19:54
Speaker 3: working at the Boston Globe, I realized that in the
19:56
Speaker 3: midst of this very unfamiliar place and hyper competitive academic environment,
20:02
Speaker 3: that for being from a small town in Michigan of
20:05
Speaker 3: one square mile basically, and sports were what I knew,
20:09
Speaker 3: sports were, what sports were my common language. And so
20:12
Speaker 3: I'm in the midst of all these people, I'm feeling
20:15
Speaker 3: with absolute certainty that I was the least academically qualified
20:19
Speaker 3: person in my class, without question. And what I still
20:23
Speaker 3: knew how to do was go work for the media
20:26
Speaker 3: relations department at Harvard and keep the shot chart at
20:29
Speaker 3: the hockey game, I could do that, and then later
20:31
Speaker 3: on I could cover the hockey team. And basically I decided,
20:34
Speaker 3: guys that I was going to do this and work
20:37
Speaker 3: in sports until someone told me it was time to
20:40
Speaker 3: grow up and get a real job, and that fortunately
20:43
Speaker 3: hasn't happened yet, might happen tomorrow. You never know in
20:46
Speaker 3: this business. But just very grateful to have that. And
20:49
Speaker 3: most importantly, I was proud of my family here in Michigan.
20:52
Speaker 3: But my wife's a physician, so her job means a
20:54
Speaker 3: heck couple lot more than mine does on my best day,
20:57
Speaker 3: and so I think a lot of perspective comes from
21:00
Speaker 3: watching and supporting her and what she does, and then
21:03
Speaker 3: raising our three daughters here in Michigan. So I'm really
21:06
Speaker 3: grateful to be able to be back in my home
21:08
Speaker 3: state and to do the job that I do from
21:10
Speaker 3: the Midwest here. But sports, really, in a lot of ways,
21:14
Speaker 3: that Ryan was my way of making sense of this
21:17
Speaker 3: new and really enriching and at times intimidating place of Harvard,
21:22
Speaker 3: and probably surprisingly I came out of it as a
21:26
Speaker 3: sports journalist. It wasn't my plan going in, but I
21:28
Speaker 3: just felt pulled in a lot of ways toward that environment,
21:32
Speaker 3: and it's really really grateful that I'm still there all
21:34
Speaker 3: these years later.
21:36
Speaker 2: You know, I think we can all probably appreciate this.
21:39
Speaker 2: But my father told me when I was much younger,
21:42
Speaker 2: that very few people know what they actually want to do.
21:44
Speaker 2: When he was talking about his generation, our generation, really
21:46
Speaker 2: any generation then, he said, far fewer people who know
21:50
Speaker 2: what they want to do actually get to pursue what
21:52
Speaker 2: they want to do, And then like an infinitesimal amount
21:55
Speaker 2: of us get to know what we want to do,
21:57
Speaker 2: pursue what we want to do make a living at it.
22:00
Speaker 2: He called those people passion unicorns. And I feel like
22:03
Speaker 2: so blessed that I was able to pursue what I
22:05
Speaker 2: wanted to do make a living doing it. It sounds like
22:08
Speaker 2: all three of us, that's one of the ties that
22:10
Speaker 2: binds us together.
22:11
Speaker 3: That's a great point that and I'm sure Ryan probably
22:13
Speaker 3: agrees with that too, just how grateful we are to
22:17
Speaker 3: have a career and something that we love. And I
22:20
Speaker 3: think that the longer I do it, the more that
22:24
Speaker 3: I try to pause and reflect on a to your point,
22:28
Speaker 3: that the good fortune that we have to be doing this,
22:31
Speaker 3: and then b what is it that we're giving back
22:34
Speaker 3: they were putting back into this, and I try whenever
22:38
Speaker 3: I can as I'm in my travels, I love talking
22:42
Speaker 3: to university students about about their path and their interest
22:47
Speaker 3: in working in sports and ways of doing it. I
22:50
Speaker 3: sometimes lament for them that it's not quite as clear
22:55
Speaker 3: as it once was, that the steps to doing the job,
22:58
Speaker 3: that the really the scaffolding that supported me in the
23:02
Speaker 3: early years of my career in a lot of ways
23:05
Speaker 3: doesn't exist in the same way. I think back I
23:09
Speaker 3: was a senior at Harvard and a lot of my
23:11
Speaker 3: friends were going to work in consulting or investment banking,
23:14
Speaker 3: and I was sending out from my dorm room these
23:17
Speaker 3: packets and certainly Ryan familiar with what this looks like,
23:20
Speaker 3: these packets of newspaper clippings of again things I had
23:23
Speaker 3: written in high school field hockey round ups for the
23:25
Speaker 3: Boston Globe as a Nighthawk, along with my campus newspaper clippings,
23:30
Speaker 3: and just hoping that I would get an internship. And
23:32
Speaker 3: I believe I sent fifty five my senior year and
23:37
Speaker 3: got one one for that summer. In two thousand and
23:40
Speaker 3: four at the Oregoning in Portland, Oregon. I graduated from
23:43
Speaker 3: Harvard on a Thursday, and by Monday morning I was
23:46
Speaker 3: sitting at my desk in Portland ready to work, and
23:49
Speaker 3: I was incredibly blessed to have that opportunity. And I
23:52
Speaker 3: often think, how do I help advise the young people
23:56
Speaker 3: of today who want to do it when this steps
24:00
Speaker 3: along the journey are so much less clear. That's that
24:04
Speaker 3: I think is the is the challenge in a lot
24:06
Speaker 3: of ways. The good news is the barriers to entry
24:09
Speaker 3: are lower than ever. If you want to cover sports
24:11
Speaker 3: it takes you, however much time to register a domain
24:14
Speaker 3: name and get a blog going and share your thoughts.
24:17
Speaker 3: That the barrier entry is almost zero. That's the good part.
24:21
Speaker 3: The tricky part is how do I monetize it? How
24:24
Speaker 3: do I grow it? A lot of those those larger
24:27
Speaker 3: questions that I think are a little less tangible in
24:30
Speaker 3: a lot of ways to find those answers. So I
24:32
Speaker 3: just I try to give back to those young people.
24:35
Speaker 3: And also, as you both know, when you speak with
24:38
Speaker 3: young people, you often learn from them as much as
24:42
Speaker 3: they learn from you. And the advice that I give them,
24:46
Speaker 3: and I'll share it with both of you and certainly
24:49
Speaker 3: our younger listeners today is I always advise them that
24:52
Speaker 3: whenever they're stepping into an interview with a company, whether
24:56
Speaker 3: it's media or a team, whatever it might be, to
24:59
Speaker 3: remember that that when you are eighteen nineteen, twenty years
25:02
Speaker 3: old twenty two, that one of the most powerful ways
25:06
Speaker 3: you could begin a sentence is by saying this, my
25:11
Speaker 3: friends and I love talking about this, or my friends
25:15
Speaker 3: and I love exploring this, we love this technology. Because
25:19
Speaker 3: all the executives in sports or any other field for
25:22
Speaker 3: that matter, they all want to know what does the
25:24
Speaker 3: eighteen nineteen twenty year old want to consume? How do
25:28
Speaker 3: we meet that person's interests? And so I try to
25:32
Speaker 3: remind them that they have a men's power in being
25:36
Speaker 3: themselves and in conveying to older folks what it is
25:40
Speaker 3: that they want to do, and it's in the midst
25:43
Speaker 3: of this very fluid and ever changing landscape. I just
25:46
Speaker 3: try to remind young people that while there are some headwinds, certainly,
25:50
Speaker 3: and some frictional dynamics that make it hard to enter
25:53
Speaker 3: the workforce, they also have a lot of tools at
25:56
Speaker 3: their disposal that we didn't have. So I try to
25:59
Speaker 3: try to look at it both through a realistic and
26:01
Speaker 3: an optimistic lens.
26:02
Speaker 1: That's great advice, John. And then when the question is asked,
26:05
Speaker 1: you know, my friends and I like to consume this.
26:08
Speaker 1: I assume that you say rosters to rings as a placeholder.
26:10
Speaker 1: After that, you know, it should be a daily show,
26:13
Speaker 1: you know, some variety with entertainment with that doing tricks
26:16
Speaker 1: or something. You know, we just we just can't get it.
26:18
Speaker 1: People can't get enough of It's the feedback we've gotten that sample.
26:21
Speaker 1: Maybe a little skewed by the way. But John, a
26:24
Speaker 1: question I was going to say for later, but I
26:26
Speaker 1: want to ask it now because of what you just
26:28
Speaker 1: said about working for the Oregonian. Is expansion in Major
26:31
Speaker 1: League Baseball? We know that's a hot button topic. Portland
26:34
Speaker 1: is certainly one of the cities, along with Salt Lake
26:37
Speaker 1: on the West coast, those are too much too, I
26:39
Speaker 1: hear the most. And then on the East coast or Midwest,
26:42
Speaker 1: maybe Nashville. What is your take on expansion? Is it
26:45
Speaker 1: likely and what do you think the reality is that
26:48
Speaker 1: MLB expands sometime between now and say twenty thirty.
26:52
Speaker 3: I think that's probably the number that they would love
26:56
Speaker 3: to hit, Brian, in terms of the year and how
26:58
Speaker 3: soon it could be. Obviously that We've got a big
27:01
Speaker 3: CBA negotiation coming up in the next couple of years
27:04
Speaker 3: that I think will shape a lot of what we
27:06
Speaker 3: see in the sport for the next decade. By the
27:09
Speaker 3: end part of this decade, the Commissioner's talked about his
27:12
Speaker 3: plans to retire and the overall timeline there, but also
27:16
Speaker 3: that he would like to have the system in place,
27:19
Speaker 3: the framework to expand by the time he leaves office,
27:22
Speaker 3: so around twenty thirty maybe it's twenty thirty one that
27:27
Speaker 3: we'd actually see the teams in play. But there's no
27:31
Speaker 3: question the Commissioner has said this on multiple occasions. I
27:34
Speaker 3: know at times it tends to get a little more
27:37
Speaker 3: traction or more interest whenever he says it, but he's
27:40
Speaker 3: been quite consistent, really going back to when he first
27:43
Speaker 3: took office, which is that from a scheduling standpoint, the
27:47
Speaker 3: number of thirty two is a lot easier to manage
27:51
Speaker 3: in the number of thirty in terms of just the
27:53
Speaker 3: ways you can divide up the divisions travel when you
27:58
Speaker 3: go to the more radical geograph an alignment. We we
28:02
Speaker 3: know this about sports. This is not breaking news that
28:05
Speaker 3: that that media rights and having favorable start times for
28:10
Speaker 3: your team's games. That's a really important element to how
28:14
Speaker 3: you sell and market your product, especially at a time
28:17
Speaker 3: where uh again, based on public comments, uh MLB is
28:21
Speaker 3: bringing bringing more and more of the of the media
28:24
Speaker 3: rights in house in terms of the way they can
28:27
Speaker 3: distribute the local broadcast. So local broadcasts do best. And
28:31
Speaker 3: this is not breaking news for Thad based on when
28:33
Speaker 3: he was working in Texas, how many times his in
28:35
Speaker 3: division games he had three indivision opponents that were in
28:38
Speaker 3: the Pacific time zone as a central time zone team.
28:41
Speaker 3: That's that's a real barrier and a real issue in
28:45
Speaker 3: the current construct of of the American League West for
28:49
Speaker 3: teams like the Astros and the Rangers, and and if
28:51
Speaker 3: you look at it, how about a more tightly geographically
28:56
Speaker 3: arranged division if it's if it's a four team division,
28:59
Speaker 3: that is that is Houston, Texas, Saint Louis, and Kansas City.
29:04
Speaker 3: Just for the sake of argument, it creates a lot
29:07
Speaker 3: more favorable start times. And you can do that if
29:11
Speaker 3: you have eight divisions of four teams. I've always said
29:14
Speaker 3: never to do math on the air, but I'm pretty
29:16
Speaker 3: comfortable that eight times four is still thirty two. So
29:19
Speaker 3: for a lot of different reasons, I think that's the
29:21
Speaker 3: goal of MLB. I think Portland's got an excellent case.
29:25
Speaker 3: I think Salt Lake has an excellent case that they've
29:27
Speaker 3: they've shown i think proof of concept where they've they've
29:30
Speaker 3: hosted now NHL hockey in a very short time horizon.
29:33
Speaker 3: By the way, you've got a credit the way the
29:35
Speaker 3: Mammoth Ryan Smith and his group have handled that, it's
29:39
Speaker 3: been really impressive. They made some new renovations to the arena,
29:43
Speaker 3: obviously trying to make it work for both hockey and basketball.
29:46
Speaker 3: You look out to the east, the Carolinas, I think
29:49
Speaker 3: certainly could be a very fertile ground for a franchise. Nashville.
29:53
Speaker 3: My brother lives there, so I know well just how
29:55
Speaker 3: much that city has grown and how what a great
29:58
Speaker 3: baseball town it is. Thad knows this too, just from
30:01
Speaker 3: being an executive. Roughly, I'm exaggerating here, but it feels
30:05
Speaker 3: like a quarter of all American baseball players already live
30:09
Speaker 3: there in the offseason, and so it's going to be
30:12
Speaker 3: an easy yes for the players Union because so many
30:15
Speaker 3: of their players are already based there. The Vanderbilt's got
30:20
Speaker 3: all their guys that train there. I visited Coach Corbin
30:22
Speaker 3: at that amazing facility there on Vandy's campus. So there's
30:26
Speaker 3: already a ton of major league players living there. So
30:29
Speaker 3: Nashville has much in the way that Seattle is a
30:33
Speaker 3: great basketball town without an NBA team, Nashville is a
30:37
Speaker 3: great baseball town without an MLB team, And I tend
30:40
Speaker 3: to think that at some point in the next decade
30:42
Speaker 3: that's going to be rectified.
30:44
Speaker 2: And just to build off of John's points, I think
30:46
Speaker 2: two things to consider as well is I think the
30:49
Speaker 2: commissioner's focus and attention recently has been stabilizing the situation
30:53
Speaker 2: in Tampa Bay and in Oakland, you know, as Oakland moves,
30:57
Speaker 2: and so I think once those two things are resolved,
30:59
Speaker 2: he turns his attention back to expansion. And you know,
31:02
Speaker 2: to to John's point, it seems essential that we get
31:05
Speaker 2: another team at least in the Mountain time zone, if
31:07
Speaker 2: not the Pacific time zone, to be able to balance
31:11
Speaker 2: that the divisions out. And then the only other consideration
31:14
Speaker 2: that I've always heard about the Carolinas is it's such
31:17
Speaker 2: a rich area for minor league baseball, you know, so
31:20
Speaker 2: we know that there are a lot of fans there,
31:22
Speaker 2: but do we want to cannibalize those minor league cities,
31:25
Speaker 2: or do we want to put it in Nashville, which
31:26
Speaker 2: seems to be such a popular place. So I think
31:29
Speaker 2: I think Rob Manford the commissioners thinking about this constantly.
31:33
Speaker 2: I think once Oakland and Tampa are stable, which there
31:35
Speaker 2: seemed to be on the road to be, he'll turn
31:37
Speaker 2: his attention back to the space.
31:39
Speaker 3: Excellent points there, and I agree having the balance of
31:43
Speaker 3: one east, one west makes a lot of sense. And
31:45
Speaker 3: then and then you start to and really it's it's
31:48
Speaker 3: it's a great exercise for all of us. You could
31:50
Speaker 3: just take your your geographic groupings and find the find
31:53
Speaker 3: them the tightest groups of four that you can find,
31:56
Speaker 3: get the map out and circle them and it and
31:58
Speaker 3: then you realize, yeah, you would certainly if they go
32:01
Speaker 3: that direction. It'd be unique to have the Yankees and
32:04
Speaker 3: Mets in the same division, the Dodgers and Angels in
32:06
Speaker 3: the same division. Having now the universal DH makes all
32:08
Speaker 3: of this a lot easier. And and I think that
32:11
Speaker 3: the players from their perspective, you know one thing that
32:14
Speaker 3: in that you've studied this a lot, and Ryan, I
32:16
Speaker 3: know it's it's a big topic in the in the
32:18
Speaker 3: NBA too, is is player health management, taking care of
32:23
Speaker 3: their bodies and their wellness over a long season. And
32:26
Speaker 3: there is little doubt that shorter travel is better and
32:29
Speaker 3: and the way that the miles accumulate is is a
32:32
Speaker 3: real element. And I think the more that we study sleep, wellness, nutrition,
32:36
Speaker 3: all those things that you get a better product. The
32:39
Speaker 3: players feel better and they put on a better show
32:41
Speaker 3: for everybody when that when they're when they're healthier and
32:44
Speaker 3: traveling a little bit less.
32:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, great points, John, And that's a recent shift in
32:48
Speaker 1: the NBA. Historically, the adage was that, well, we can't
32:52
Speaker 1: sell tickets for the same opponent, especially if it's a
32:55
Speaker 1: lesser opponent, for two games in a row. So we're
32:58
Speaker 1: going to prioritize revenue to overplayer health. Right, If I'm
33:02
Speaker 1: not trying to pick on anybody, but if the Sacramento
33:05
Speaker 1: Kings or Charlotte Hornets or one of these non marquee
33:07
Speaker 1: teams comes into a market and they play on Wednesday
33:10
Speaker 1: and then not again until Saturday, how do they sell
33:13
Speaker 1: the second game? In particular? Was the challenge, and that
33:15
Speaker 1: was what these folks who drive revenue for the teams,
33:18
Speaker 1: the chief ticket officers, marketing officers did not want. What
33:22
Speaker 1: the NBA has now said is we don't care about that.
33:25
Speaker 1: We'd rather have the players not fly to a city,
33:28
Speaker 1: go fly somewhere else, and then X number of weeks
33:30
Speaker 1: or months later have to come back to that city
33:32
Speaker 1: to play one more game. That does not make sense.
33:35
Speaker 1: So now you're seeing a lot more of that. We're
33:37
Speaker 1: a team will even they don't do this as much,
33:39
Speaker 1: but occasionally play a back to back in the same market.
33:42
Speaker 1: More typically they play one game in the NBA, have
33:44
Speaker 1: an off night, and then the same two teams play
33:46
Speaker 1: a game again at the same venue two nights later,
33:49
Speaker 1: so two games and three nights. That is more common.
33:52
Speaker 1: It's more of a Major League Baseball style. But you
33:54
Speaker 1: guys are exactly right. Across sports, player health is being emphasized.
33:58
Speaker 1: And then frankly too, I think teams are looking at
34:01
Speaker 1: the reduced travel costs while the team just goes there
34:03
Speaker 1: once in stays. That is less expensive than getting everybody
34:07
Speaker 1: back on the plane, flying to another city and then
34:10
Speaker 1: having to return to the previous city and do the
34:12
Speaker 1: same thing again later on that season.
34:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, and John, I think you brought up an excellent
34:16
Speaker 2: point about the Texas Rangers and the Houston Astros when
34:19
Speaker 2: I was working there. One of the biggest concerns, and
34:21
Speaker 2: it keep in mind that was when you played eighteen
34:24
Speaker 2: or nineteen in Division games, So we had three West
34:26
Speaker 2: Coast trips, and you know, you could play nine consecutive
34:30
Speaker 2: night games in Seattle, Anaheim, and Oakland, Sorry, and your
34:37
Speaker 2: young fans would be disengaged from your product. You know,
34:39
Speaker 2: those games were starting at nine pm locally weekday nights,
34:43
Speaker 2: Like your young fans just were totally disengaged for like
34:46
Speaker 2: a ten day period. It was a major problem for
34:48
Speaker 2: those franchises that could be remedied by realignment. John, I
34:53
Speaker 2: wanted to shift your attention. One of the most unique
34:56
Speaker 2: elements about you, I think is the fact that you
34:58
Speaker 2: have really invested in learning like which is to try
35:01
Speaker 2: to connect personally with players throughout your career and your
35:05
Speaker 2: at least functional, if not conversational in Italian, French and Spanish.
35:10
Speaker 2: Can you take us back to two thousand and three
35:13
Speaker 2: an interview you conducted with Victor Mendez in the clubhouse
35:17
Speaker 2: and how that has inspired you to learn more Spanish
35:19
Speaker 2: and how you've now forged connections with players than maybe
35:23
Speaker 2: you otherwise wouldn't have been able to.
35:25
Speaker 3: You've done your research that that's pretty impressive, my friend.
35:27
Speaker 3: Well done. So I was an intern that summer with
35:30
Speaker 3: the Grand Rapids Press covering the West Michigan white Caps,
35:33
Speaker 3: then managed by Phil Reagan. So he was of course
35:36
Speaker 3: the manager of the Orioles when Cal Ripken broke the streak.
35:38
Speaker 3: So it's a nice little bit of baseball trivia from Whalen, Michigan.
35:42
Speaker 3: Phil Reagan, great guy, amazing pitching coach too. So was
35:46
Speaker 3: covering the West Michigan white Caps and I was in
35:49
Speaker 3: the clubhouse there. So at that point, it's before my
35:51
Speaker 3: senior year at Harvard. And so at that point I
35:55
Speaker 3: had taken one year of Spanish at Harvard. I'd taken
35:57
Speaker 3: it through high school. I had had some exposure to
36:02
Speaker 3: Spanish as a kid in preschool. I had a teacher
36:05
Speaker 3: who spoke Spanish, missus Roz in Bay City, amazing, so
36:09
Speaker 3: she taught me a little bit of Spanish when I
36:10
Speaker 3: was in pre school, and I gradually probably had a
36:17
Speaker 3: faculty for language as a kid growing up, but I
36:20
Speaker 3: didn't speak Italian at home as a kid. I just
36:24
Speaker 3: had an interest in language and loved it. And then
36:26
Speaker 3: I realized that just with my at that point very
36:30
Speaker 3: limited Spanish in my ability to communicate with Victor because
36:32
Speaker 3: there was no translator around this long before translators became
36:36
Speaker 3: somewhat mandatory in clubhouses. I felt this crowd of people
36:41
Speaker 3: gathering around me and all like, maybe not all the players,
36:45
Speaker 3: but it felt like that a good portion of the
36:48
Speaker 3: roster in this minor league clubhouse was listening into this conversation.
36:53
Speaker 3: Because this phenomenon of an anglophone reporter trying his best
36:58
Speaker 3: to interview a Spanish speaking player in Sea Spanish didn't
37:01
Speaker 3: happen all that often in Comstock Park, Michigan in two
37:04
Speaker 3: thousand and three. And I realized through that conversation, as
37:08
Speaker 3: I was struggling and it certainly wasn't good Spanish or
37:11
Speaker 3: or certainly wasn't perfect Spanish, that that there was real
37:15
Speaker 3: potential in doing this and that and Ryan, I've what
37:19
Speaker 3: I've long believed, and this is even true now as
37:22
Speaker 3: I try to do Spanish interviews as often as I can,
37:26
Speaker 3: and and invariably make mistakes every time I do. It
37:29
Speaker 3: is is the goal is not perfection. The goal is
37:33
Speaker 3: authenticity and connection and and building a bond with the player.
37:39
Speaker 3: Now my my biggest fear is always that I will
37:43
Speaker 3: is i'm doing the interview, perhaps misinterpret a word or
37:46
Speaker 3: miss a word here or there that the player is saying.
37:49
Speaker 3: That's always what I try to make sure that I'm
37:52
Speaker 3: that I'm doing a good and throw job of listening
37:56
Speaker 3: as intently as possible so that way I don't misinterpret
37:59
Speaker 3: something that I'm then saying on behalf of the player.
38:01
Speaker 3: As I have said many times, I am perfectly capable
38:05
Speaker 3: of making my own mistakes. I do it all the time.
38:07
Speaker 3: I saying something silly in my own words. I do
38:10
Speaker 3: that in English, so I'm that is not foreign to me.
38:14
Speaker 3: But I always want to make sure I'm doing right
38:16
Speaker 3: by the player. But what I'll say is that I
38:19
Speaker 3: have been around all star players from Latin America who
38:24
Speaker 3: have come up to me and said, hey, John, we
38:26
Speaker 3: really appreciate that you try. And that's really that's it.
38:32
Speaker 3: The fact that when you think about and that you
38:34
Speaker 3: know from going to the Dominican Republic and being involved
38:38
Speaker 3: in player development at the youngest levels of the game,
38:41
Speaker 3: that we have a system in place in MLB where
38:48
Speaker 3: young players sign and then they're coming through the system
38:51
Speaker 3: and almost from day one, Latin American players are put
38:54
Speaker 3: in a situation where they are speaking their second language,
38:57
Speaker 3: they have to operate in their second language, and when
38:59
Speaker 3: they see an anglophone person from the US doing his
39:04
Speaker 3: or her best to to meet them and go through
39:07
Speaker 3: the same thing, it creates a bond of empathy that
39:10
Speaker 3: that is essential and and they will always remember that
39:16
Speaker 3: no matter it's it really to me is inspiring that
39:20
Speaker 3: that that's one of the things we can do, not
39:21
Speaker 3: just as broadcast but as citizens, that that people deeply
39:25
Speaker 3: care about that and they really appreciate so much that
39:29
Speaker 3: it's not just a gesture, it's it's a real meaning
39:31
Speaker 3: of connection. And so I've been very very grateful in
39:34
Speaker 3: my career that some of my favorite moments and interviews
39:36
Speaker 3: have been those that have involved foreign languages. And certainly
39:39
Speaker 3: I don't I don't speak Japanese, but I know how
39:41
Speaker 3: to congratulate people in Japanese and say thank you and
39:44
Speaker 3: and good evening, and and even those small courtesies go
39:49
Speaker 3: a long way when when you're when you're interviewing a
39:51
Speaker 3: player and that you've recruited players internationally ryan you've done
39:54
Speaker 3: the same is knowing and understanding language, but also culture
39:59
Speaker 3: and respect those touches are incredibly important, and I've just
40:04
Speaker 3: tried to dedicate myself as much as I can. I
40:06
Speaker 3: try to listen to games in Spanish. I try to
40:09
Speaker 3: make a point of understanding how the game is being
40:13
Speaker 3: interpreted and experiencing different languages and hoping that comes out
40:17
Speaker 3: in my own coverage of the sport.
40:19
Speaker 2: John, I think it's a subtle point with a monumental impact.
40:22
Speaker 2: I always felt that. And you know one thing you
40:24
Speaker 2: didn't say is like some of the kids who come
40:26
Speaker 2: out of the Dominican who we are signing are maybe
40:29
Speaker 2: fourth or fifth grade educated, So not only do they
40:32
Speaker 2: not know English, but they're they're learning Spanish still, like
40:34
Speaker 2: they're refinding their own native language skills. And I think
40:37
Speaker 2: we made so many poor choices in baseball because we
40:40
Speaker 2: when a kid could not learn English, we ascribed all
40:43
Speaker 2: these traits to them which were totally inappropriate. And I
40:46
Speaker 2: always looked at it and said, almost all of our
40:48
Speaker 2: coaches are high school, if not college educated, and we're
40:52
Speaker 2: not making the effort. And so now baseball's really transformed
40:55
Speaker 2: in that regard. At every minor league team there's Spanish
40:58
Speaker 2: speaking coaches. Every Major league as Spanish speaking coaches. We
41:02
Speaker 2: have an interpreter as you referenced, but now we're providing
41:05
Speaker 2: them with the resources I mean fundamentally to being able
41:08
Speaker 2: to connect with them in their own languages. Coaching them
41:11
Speaker 2: in their own languages just so clearly puts them in
41:14
Speaker 2: a better position to succeed and feel like they're connected
41:17
Speaker 2: as part of a community. And I just harken back
41:20
Speaker 2: to my time in Texas. I didn't know Spanish either,
41:22
Speaker 2: but I made a point of coming up to Vladimir
41:24
Speaker 2: Guerrero every day ask him to teach me one word
41:27
Speaker 2: in Spanish. I would speak to him a little bit
41:29
Speaker 2: in English, you'd speak to me a little bit in Spanish.
41:31
Speaker 2: And also a connection is formed because when you're willing
41:35
Speaker 2: to humble yourself and make yourself vulnerable, it's amazing where
41:39
Speaker 2: you can connect with people because now all of a sudden,
41:41
Speaker 2: they see you being in a compromise position, something they
41:45
Speaker 2: can imminently relate to because they're dealing with it on
41:47
Speaker 2: a literally a daily basis.
41:49
Speaker 3: It's next to the point that I believe too, and
41:52
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's the same through Ryan's experience in basketball
41:55
Speaker 3: as well, that being understood and being able to to
42:00
Speaker 3: communicate is so inextricably linked to the mental health of
42:06
Speaker 3: a player or a person in any walk of life.
42:09
Speaker 3: But when you think about if you're nineteen years old,
42:12
Speaker 3: you're from the Dominican Republic, all of a sudden, you're
42:14
Speaker 3: in the Midwest League, and these Midwest League towns, like
42:17
Speaker 3: I was describing, they're small. You're probably not around a
42:20
Speaker 3: lot of Spanish speakers. And oh, by the way, you
42:23
Speaker 3: might be in that moment as a nineteen year old
42:26
Speaker 3: now the primary breadwinner for your family, and your family's
42:29
Speaker 3: financial well being back in the Dominican is contingent on
42:32
Speaker 3: your ability to have success, and you're in a place
42:35
Speaker 3: where you don't speak the local language. Simply ordering food
42:40
Speaker 3: is difficult, the pressure of being away, the homesickness. You know.
42:45
Speaker 3: I'm very fortunate in being able to host the Road
42:49
Speaker 3: to Cooperstown podcast where I talk with Hall of famers
42:51
Speaker 3: about their journeys, and it is amazing to me that
42:55
Speaker 3: in Ryan how many players, no matter where they're from,
42:59
Speaker 3: but especially those that are from Latin America go through
43:02
Speaker 3: extreme homesickness during those minor league years. Tony Oliva talking
43:08
Speaker 3: about how he was crying at night when he was
43:10
Speaker 3: in the minor leagues, so homesick, and of course at
43:12
Speaker 3: that point in time, he's from Cuba. The relations between
43:16
Speaker 3: the US and Cuba especially strained there in the early
43:19
Speaker 3: nineteen sixties, literally feeling like you can't ever go home,
43:23
Speaker 3: and all this is happening. Oh, by the way, at
43:25
Speaker 3: seven o'clock, we expected to hit, hit some really tough
43:28
Speaker 3: pitching and to have success. So I just think that
43:31
Speaker 3: whatever organizations can do is paramount important just from a
43:36
Speaker 3: human standpoint to help your players feel comfortable. And then
43:39
Speaker 3: as broadcasters and as journalists, I look at it as
43:43
Speaker 3: this is part of our core job description. We are
43:47
Speaker 3: supposed to be the storytellers. It is the core job
43:51
Speaker 3: description of the baseball player to play, and it's my
43:54
Speaker 3: job to communicate. I should at least meet him halfway,
43:57
Speaker 3: if not way more than halfway, to be able to
44:00
Speaker 3: help him feel comfortable, because that's my job. It's my
44:04
Speaker 3: job to communicate his story and hopefully to your point
44:07
Speaker 3: that some of the most interesting stories and journeys in
44:12
Speaker 3: this game are those that have an international framework. And
44:16
Speaker 3: if we're not fully understanding it, and if an American
44:20
Speaker 3: journalist is just sort of saying, oh well, I can't
44:23
Speaker 3: understand what he's saying, and so I'm just not going
44:25
Speaker 3: to tell that story. You're missing the best stories, you're missing,
44:30
Speaker 3: You're missing all of these really rich historical notes. Just
44:35
Speaker 3: think about and fortunately with Levon Hernandez in South Florida
44:39
Speaker 3: in the late nineteen nineties, there were Spanish speaking reporters
44:42
Speaker 3: there to help tell his story. Has there ever been
44:45
Speaker 3: a more remarkable October journey than Levon Hernandez and El
44:49
Speaker 3: Duque as well as his half brother during those years.
44:51
Speaker 3: And you could not understand, in my view, properly with
44:56
Speaker 3: full context, those Yankees World Series team and the Marlins
45:00
Speaker 3: of ninety seven without understanding all that those brothers had
45:04
Speaker 3: gone through to come to this country. It's just it's
45:07
Speaker 3: essential framework of understanding. And honestly, to me, Ryan, it's
45:11
Speaker 3: the job of the broadcasters to be able to pick
45:13
Speaker 3: up on that.
45:14
Speaker 1: You absolutely right, John, And when I was in high school,
45:16
Speaker 1: Pedro Martinez was in his prime with the Red Sox,
45:19
Speaker 1: and when he pitched, it was a cultural event. The
45:22
Speaker 1: Dominican flags would be out, They've been playing Dominican music.
45:26
Speaker 1: You remember you worked there. Not long after the Boston
45:28
Speaker 1: Globe was printed in English that the sports section. They
45:31
Speaker 1: also printed it in Spanish and Pedro during that time
45:35
Speaker 1: period was as good a pitcher as I've seen. You
45:37
Speaker 1: guys have watched a lot more baseball than I have,
45:39
Speaker 1: but he was at the peak of his dominance and
45:41
Speaker 1: it really was an event. Regardless of how the Red
45:43
Speaker 1: Sox were that year when Pedro pitched, it was different
45:47
Speaker 1: in the cultural impact and seeing the paper, you know,
45:50
Speaker 1: Boston Globe of all papers. Boston's not maybe known as
45:53
Speaker 1: the most progressive city as far as the university.
45:56
Speaker 2: Hispanics saw that.
45:57
Speaker 1: To see that and the impact that had culturally just
46:00
Speaker 1: beyond baseball was really impactful and really impressive.
46:03
Speaker 2: John.
46:03
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about your podcast.
46:06
Speaker 1: I think it's really neat that you're able to do that.
46:08
Speaker 1: It's called The Road to Cooperstown. You have one on
46:10
Speaker 1: one conversations with Hall of famers that and I recently
46:14
Speaker 1: had on Greg Mannox.
46:15
Speaker 3: That was a thrill for me.
46:17
Speaker 1: You know, are there any moments to stand out as
46:20
Speaker 1: far as Wow, this this was really impactful. You mentioned
46:22
Speaker 1: what Tony Oliva said when you had him on, and
46:25
Speaker 1: any specific guests who stand out, you know, I know,
46:28
Speaker 1: they're all they're all great, they're all Hall of famers,
46:29
Speaker 1: but you know, any anybody that really resonates with you
46:32
Speaker 1: as you think back on all those interviews you've done,
46:35
Speaker 1: and any any episodes that our listeners may want to
46:37
Speaker 1: go track down and go back and listen to.
46:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, Ran Well, I appreciate the question. We've had a
46:43
Speaker 3: lot of great ones. And it's not because of the host.
46:46
Speaker 3: It's because of the guests they've been They have been
46:48
Speaker 3: phenomenal and and their thoughtfulness and and I think too
46:52
Speaker 3: part of the the initial charter of this podcast was
46:56
Speaker 3: to ask players about the challenges they encountered on the
47:00
Speaker 3: road to Cooperstown and what what they had gone through
47:04
Speaker 3: and and it's it's a really interesting dynamic to be
47:08
Speaker 3: able to speak with the greats about some of their
47:12
Speaker 3: lesser moments and some moments of struggle and also those
47:16
Speaker 3: that evoked profound emotion. I remember towards the end of
47:20
Speaker 3: my conversation with Larry Walker, Larry Walker is in tears.
47:23
Speaker 3: Larry Larry Walker is a tough guy and and and
47:27
Speaker 3: he and he was in tears by the end. Todd
47:30
Speaker 3: Helton talked about the challenge uh even in his own
47:33
Speaker 3: mental health of of retiring from the game and what
47:36
Speaker 3: he then went into afterward, and just and just that
47:40
Speaker 3: that pivot point of a player's life when you leave
47:43
Speaker 3: the game behind and then go into that next chapter,
47:45
Speaker 3: how how challenging that is. And and he spoke about that.
47:49
Speaker 3: Ken Griffy Junior talked about all the the mental hardships
47:52
Speaker 3: he went through during his career and and the expectations
47:55
Speaker 3: of of being the son of someone who played for
47:58
Speaker 3: the Big Red Machine. So that is what I hope
48:01
Speaker 3: we're communicating through the podcast, is that these great legends
48:07
Speaker 3: of the game become both more relatable and more extraordinary
48:12
Speaker 3: when you hear about how they say, Yeah, I was
48:14
Speaker 3: homesick too, I almost quit. I didn't think I was
48:18
Speaker 3: good enough and there for a lot of these players.
48:22
Speaker 3: Fred McGriff was cut. Not just the old story about
48:25
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan being cut from the varsity but still playing
48:27
Speaker 3: on the jv. Fred McGriff was cut from his high
48:29
Speaker 3: school baseball program entirely. He had no place to play.
48:33
Speaker 3: Fred McGriff in Tampa, no place to play, and he's
48:37
Speaker 3: talked about riding his bike to go to the Nautilus
48:39
Speaker 3: gym and get himself in the better shape. So we
48:41
Speaker 3: could play the next year. Mike Schmidt initially going to
48:45
Speaker 3: Ohio University thinking he was going to play basketball. Just
48:48
Speaker 3: amazing adversity that's been overcome. I would also say this
48:52
Speaker 3: a real common thread for me, Ryan multi sport athlete.
48:57
Speaker 3: We could talk about this at length, but I think
49:00
Speaker 3: it's very instructive that the youngest Hall of Famer that
49:04
Speaker 3: we have in baseball, Joe Mauer, three sports all the
49:10
Speaker 3: way through four years of high school. Three sports every year,
49:14
Speaker 3: all years. And I like to make this point of
49:18
Speaker 3: all parents out there, who do you want to listen
49:21
Speaker 3: to the travel sports coach who says, Okay, we got
49:24
Speaker 3: to spend X and Y and Z because you got
49:26
Speaker 3: to play for my club and this is the ticket
49:28
Speaker 3: to be able to have a college career. Or Joe
49:31
Speaker 3: Mauer in the Hall of Fame who says that playing
49:34
Speaker 3: three sports a year all the way through was essential
49:38
Speaker 3: in what he was able to achieve that he was
49:41
Speaker 3: obviously the number one quarterback recruit. Was also had to
49:43
Speaker 3: go play for Bobby Bowden. He was actually the best
49:45
Speaker 3: high school basketball player in the state of Minnesota as
49:48
Speaker 3: a senior, as Pat Royce. That is the longtime Start
49:51
Speaker 3: Tribune Colum has told me, and then, of course the
49:54
Speaker 3: number one pick in baseball, So it's Joe Maher's an outlier,
49:59
Speaker 3: but a lot of that wisdom applies broadly speaking. I
50:02
Speaker 3: think to one of my other favorite podcast guests, Ted Simmons,
50:07
Speaker 3: who is such an insightful person, and Thad Cross passing them,
50:11
Speaker 3: I'm sure as during a Thad's career, during a Ted's
50:13
Speaker 3: career as an executive with the Mariners and other clubs.
50:16
Speaker 3: But one of my favorite things that Ted Simmons talked
50:19
Speaker 3: about was that he found something in the game or
50:24
Speaker 3: away from the game that occupied his headspace even on
50:29
Speaker 3: game days, and that was art. Ted Simmons is a
50:32
Speaker 3: known connoisseur, expert collector of American art, and he and
50:37
Speaker 3: his wife Mary Anne are are deeply involved in the
50:39
Speaker 3: Saint Louis arts community. They've donated it was a part sale,
50:43
Speaker 3: part donation of this rich collection of American furniture and
50:46
Speaker 3: works on paper. He's he knows art as well as
50:49
Speaker 3: he knows baseball, which is saying something because he's one
50:52
Speaker 3: of the most intellectual baseball people that you're ever going
50:54
Speaker 3: to meet. But he said that it was important to
50:56
Speaker 3: him that he had something that his mind could go
51:00
Speaker 3: to that was away from the game. And he found
51:04
Speaker 3: this intellectually enriching part of him to be essential in
51:09
Speaker 3: navigating the mental demands of the job. And I think
51:13
Speaker 3: we can all relate to this balance in life is
51:16
Speaker 3: harder than ever. And now Ted Simmons talked about how
51:20
Speaker 3: he would spend maybe if he had a game in Philadelphia,
51:22
Speaker 3: you'd be going to the Philadelphia Museum of Art for
51:25
Speaker 3: two hours maybe in the morning before before you go
51:27
Speaker 3: to the ballpark. Now, how much of that time for
51:30
Speaker 3: all people in modern life is consumed by screens or
51:33
Speaker 3: things that really aren't that enriching. And Ted believed it
51:37
Speaker 3: was essential to get that mental space and almost reinvigorating
51:44
Speaker 3: where he felt like he was better as a ballplayer
51:46
Speaker 3: when his mind was firing on different syliners because of
51:49
Speaker 3: the way that art made him reflect and feel. And
51:53
Speaker 3: a final point on Ted, I sent it back to you.
51:55
Speaker 3: He actually he was able. So he signed with the
51:59
Speaker 3: Cardinals in night teen sixty seven as a high school
52:01
Speaker 3: graduate from Michigan. He went back and got his college
52:06
Speaker 3: degree from the University of Michigan in the mid nineteen nineties,
52:10
Speaker 3: while working as a scout for the Cleveland Indians and
52:12
Speaker 3: John Hart, who that knows well. John Hart would assigned
52:15
Speaker 3: them to cover games in Michigan. Ted would in the
52:19
Speaker 3: morning go to ann Arbor, go to class, and then
52:22
Speaker 3: go to Tiger Stadium and scout that night. And so
52:25
Speaker 3: he was able to get his degree, and he talked
52:26
Speaker 3: about how much it meant to him that he was
52:29
Speaker 3: able to see it through where he basically signed at eighteen.
52:32
Speaker 3: There was no time where he was a college baseball player,
52:35
Speaker 3: and he still got his degree because he believed that
52:38
Speaker 3: the intellectual exercise of it meant that much to him.
52:41
Speaker 3: Just he's a fascinating person. It's one of my favorite
52:45
Speaker 3: interviews that we did there on the road to Cooperstown.
52:48
Speaker 2: John and I just got to hit on a few
52:49
Speaker 2: of the guys you just touched on there. Fred McGriff,
52:51
Speaker 2: if he hadn't made that high school team, where would
52:53
Speaker 2: Tom and Manski's business be this day? Well, I mean
52:56
Speaker 2: that knows, I mean who knows. But also like just
53:00
Speaker 2: the people I came across you mentioned if you there,
53:03
Speaker 2: Larry Walker was a hockey player playing baseball. Don Mattingly
53:07
Speaker 2: was a basketball player who played baseball. You know, Dave
53:10
Speaker 2: Winfield was famously one of the best three sport athletes
53:13
Speaker 2: ever in the United States, let alone to play Major
53:15
Speaker 2: League Baseball. It's really fascinating. Then Ted Simmons, I had
53:19
Speaker 2: a few opportunities to talk to him. Truly one of
53:22
Speaker 2: the most fascinating minds I've ever been around. I don't
53:25
Speaker 2: know if you've ever heard the story of his folklore
53:28
Speaker 2: about his Kirk Gibson scouting report. If you haven't heard
53:31
Speaker 2: that story, next time he's on, please ask him to
53:34
Speaker 2: read it to you. It's absolutely epic. John, I just
53:38
Speaker 2: want to shift topics for a second here. You're a
53:41
Speaker 2: tremendous relationship person. You always have been. You dig into relationships.
53:47
Speaker 2: Part of that is just your personal wiring. Part of
53:49
Speaker 2: that is because your job is to cultivate sources. But
53:53
Speaker 2: can you take us through the process and how that
53:56
Speaker 2: has changed today's day and age. It seems to me
53:58
Speaker 2: that clubs are really covered information more than they ever have.
54:02
Speaker 2: How tough is it for you to cultivate those relationships
54:05
Speaker 2: in all thirty teams, because at some level that is
54:08
Speaker 2: your responsibility and that's your life blood, is to have
54:11
Speaker 2: sources within each thirty clubs to give you some of
54:13
Speaker 2: those personal information, stories, and access to some of the
54:16
Speaker 2: best characters in the game.
54:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question, and we could probably talk
54:20
Speaker 3: for a full hour about just this subject alone. I'll
54:23
Speaker 3: say this. When I first broke into the business, so
54:26
Speaker 3: I graduated college in two thousand and four, I covered
54:29
Speaker 3: the Mariners No. Five, as you mentioned earlier, and what
54:33
Speaker 3: I would do, and we can either decide if this
54:37
Speaker 3: is a good idea not so good idea. What I
54:39
Speaker 3: would do is, at that time, I'm in Seattle. My
54:43
Speaker 3: wife now my girlfriend then, was working there too. She
54:47
Speaker 3: was working at the VA Hospital and getting ready to
54:50
Speaker 3: apply to medical school, so she was really busy, and
54:53
Speaker 3: I had one thing on my mind, which was baseball
54:55
Speaker 3: and making it as a reporter. So what I would
54:59
Speaker 3: do is I would I would get the media guide
55:03
Speaker 3: for basically every team. I'd pick it up from the
55:06
Speaker 3: press room at Safeco Field in those days and bring
55:09
Speaker 3: it back to our apartment in Seattle, and I would
55:12
Speaker 3: just after a game, I would stay up through most
55:16
Speaker 3: of the night. You probably got one of these emails
55:17
Speaker 3: stad where I would like literally in I would flip
55:20
Speaker 3: through the media guide, figure out how to email everybody,
55:23
Speaker 3: and send an email to basically anybody that I could
55:26
Speaker 3: find in the organization, and invariably at least a handful
55:32
Speaker 3: would reply to you. I would just be introducing with myself.
55:34
Speaker 3: I wasn't looking for a big scoop. I just wanted
55:36
Speaker 3: to say, Hi, I'm John, I'm covering baseball. I'd love
55:38
Speaker 3: to meet you sometime. And I was casting a fairly
55:41
Speaker 3: wide net, and so usually I would probably get three
55:45
Speaker 3: or four emails emails back from Scouts executives, assistant gms
55:50
Speaker 3: like you were at the time, fed and then you
55:53
Speaker 3: would just stay in touch and really spend time, as
55:56
Speaker 3: I would like to say, watering the garden of those relationships.
55:58
Speaker 3: You have to keep tending those checking in watching games. Hey,
56:01
Speaker 3: when the team is playing well, reach out. When the
56:03
Speaker 3: team's not playing well, reach out, just establish and it
56:06
Speaker 3: takes a lot of time. Occasionally I would get I
56:09
Speaker 3: would get the one email response from the head of
56:12
Speaker 3: communications or whoever it might be, saying, mister Morosi, it
56:16
Speaker 3: has come to my attention that you have emailed our
56:18
Speaker 3: entire organization. And then, uh, please just forward future request
56:24
Speaker 3: to me. Okay, duly noted, I got that. But but
56:27
Speaker 3: especially when you're twenty two, you can do that now.
56:30
Speaker 3: It might be a little a little different if I
56:32
Speaker 3: did it now, but but the principle is still the same,
56:36
Speaker 3: which is you have to reach out to people the relationships.
56:40
Speaker 3: The people are not just gonna line up at my
56:41
Speaker 3: door and knock on the door and just hand me scoops.
56:44
Speaker 3: It's not how this works. You need to you need
56:46
Speaker 3: to work for it and develop the relationships and and
56:50
Speaker 3: not just only call people when the scoop of the
56:53
Speaker 3: century is in front of it. You gotta you gotta
56:55
Speaker 3: work on it. You have to. You have to learn
56:57
Speaker 3: how to ask good questions. And also if you're curious
57:01
Speaker 3: about the game, and you're and you want to know, Hey,
57:04
Speaker 3: I'm curious about this guy. You got a double A
57:06
Speaker 3: who's a really good player. Can I talk about him?
57:08
Speaker 3: And then maybe four or five conversations down the line.
57:11
Speaker 3: If that guy gets traded or included in a in
57:15
Speaker 3: a call up, then maybe you get that story down
57:17
Speaker 3: the line. But you can't it can't just be transactional.
57:20
Speaker 3: You can't just be Okay, I get this scoop and
57:22
Speaker 3: you get this positive press. It's it's a relationship. And
57:25
Speaker 3: and by the way, the relationship part of it's more
57:27
Speaker 3: fun because at the end of the day, we're humans
57:30
Speaker 3: and we want we want friendships and connections and relationships.
57:33
Speaker 3: That's that's the fun part of life. That's why we're
57:36
Speaker 3: Here's sports are a framework to have interesting friendships and
57:40
Speaker 3: relationships in bonds, whether you're a fan crying along with
57:43
Speaker 3: your either tears of joy or sadness along with your
57:46
Speaker 3: fellow fans in the stands, or if you're a journalist.
57:49
Speaker 3: And this is why we love sports, and so I've
57:52
Speaker 3: tried to keep up with that. I also love and
57:55
Speaker 3: this I credit my mom for this. I still love
57:57
Speaker 3: writing letters. I'm a letter writer by her influence, and
58:02
Speaker 3: still do it. It is amazing to me how many
58:05
Speaker 3: people will write back to you, because it is such
58:09
Speaker 3: a lost art. If you have something to say to someone,
58:13
Speaker 3: send them a letter. I mean, you could send them
58:14
Speaker 3: an email too, but I tend to think that letters
58:17
Speaker 3: are a little a little more mystery in that is
58:18
Speaker 3: it actually going to get to the person who's going
58:20
Speaker 3: to read it? Are they going to respond to you?
58:23
Speaker 3: And I have a nice little stack of letters from
58:26
Speaker 3: folks that I never would have thought would have ever
58:28
Speaker 3: written me back, and yet they did so. And then
58:31
Speaker 3: you never know where those relationships might come up still
58:34
Speaker 3: for years that and Ryan, I would go into the
58:37
Speaker 3: press room at a ballpark and there'd be a table
58:40
Speaker 3: of scouts there, And to anybody that's ever been in
58:42
Speaker 3: a press box, you know those scouts when you see them,
58:45
Speaker 3: that they have a certain distinctive look about them. Walk
58:48
Speaker 3: up to them and say hello. One of my biggest
58:50
Speaker 3: pet peeves is is writers who only talk to other writers.
58:54
Speaker 3: With all due respect, it's your job to meet people
58:56
Speaker 3: who are not your colleagues and competition. You should get
59:00
Speaker 3: out of your circle, sit down with the scouts, shake
59:03
Speaker 3: some hands, and learn something and also take in the knowledge.
59:08
Speaker 3: I would I would always very early in my career
59:11
Speaker 3: it was interesting that and Ryan, because it was I
59:13
Speaker 3: was breaking into the business right around the Moneyball book
59:17
Speaker 3: and that and really that zeitgeist across sports, and so
59:21
Speaker 3: to be fair, I looked like I looked like a
59:24
Speaker 3: moneyball guy. I was twenty two years old from Harvard,
59:26
Speaker 3: and I kind of I probably kind of gave off
59:29
Speaker 3: that vibe. So to be able to sit with the scouts,
59:33
Speaker 3: you had to learn how to just kind of shut
59:34
Speaker 3: your mouth and listen and and and scouts in my
59:38
Speaker 3: experience when they know that you respect what they do
59:42
Speaker 3: and that you respect their experience in the game. Again,
59:45
Speaker 3: whether it's basketball, baseball, whatever the sport is, and you
59:49
Speaker 3: just kind of sit and listen, you might learn something.
59:53
Speaker 3: And and by the way, part of part of the
59:57
Speaker 3: learning for me is not just the scoop and the
1:00:01
Speaker 3: transaction of it all, but it's that, Hey, if at
1:00:05
Speaker 3: the playoff game I might be covering tonight, if something
1:00:08
Speaker 3: happens that reminds me of a story that I heard
1:00:10
Speaker 3: from a scout twenty years ago, I might ask a
1:00:13
Speaker 3: better question of cal Raley when he's sitting next to me,
1:00:17
Speaker 3: I might I might have something more intelligent to say
1:00:19
Speaker 3: to him because of something that I learned about the
1:00:22
Speaker 3: game from someone that had worn a catcher's mask and
1:00:25
Speaker 3: chest protector for twenty years. And I've got something intelligent
1:00:28
Speaker 3: to ask him. It's when you go and you're curious,
1:00:32
Speaker 3: you learn things, and but you got to ask the
1:00:34
Speaker 3: questions to do it and ryan to get back to
1:00:37
Speaker 3: your sport. There was one month when I was in
1:00:40
Speaker 3: Seattle where the where there was a gap in in
1:00:46
Speaker 3: sonics reporters at the PI. So for October of five,
1:00:51
Speaker 3: the the the first month of the Bob Weiss administration
1:00:54
Speaker 3: of the Seattle SuperSonics. I was covering the team and
1:00:57
Speaker 3: I and I got to go to the Sonics the
1:01:00
Speaker 3: practice center. I covered a few of their preseason games,
1:01:03
Speaker 3: and so I got to watch Ray Allen shoot for
1:01:05
Speaker 3: about a month. And that was pretty darn cool to
1:01:07
Speaker 3: see what was great about about him. And I always
1:01:11
Speaker 3: said that when I was watching Ray shoot three pointers,
1:01:14
Speaker 3: Thad would say that, you know, when you're watching VP,
1:01:17
Speaker 3: there are some guys for whom the ball just sounds
1:01:20
Speaker 3: different leaving the bat. The ball sounded different going through
1:01:24
Speaker 3: the net when thirty four was shooting, and I knew that,
1:01:26
Speaker 3: and that was pretty cool to be able to watch
1:01:29
Speaker 3: Ray Allen work and how he handled things. It was
1:01:33
Speaker 3: just it was a pretty cool education. And that, by
1:01:35
Speaker 3: the way, is true whether it's basketball, hockey, baseball, football,
1:01:39
Speaker 3: whatever the sport is. When you're around the greats, you
1:01:42
Speaker 3: can kind of see it and feel it, but you
1:01:44
Speaker 3: got to have your head up and out of your
1:01:45
Speaker 3: phone to be able to figure that out. And I
1:01:48
Speaker 3: just think that watching Ray shoot baskets for a month,
1:01:51
Speaker 3: I always said, like, that's that's pretty special. I'm seeing
1:01:54
Speaker 3: one of the greats to ever do it. And I
1:01:56
Speaker 3: took away a lot from even though it was a month.
1:01:58
Speaker 3: I learned a lot from watching Ray work.
1:02:00
Speaker 1: Great lessons there, John. I was fortunate enough to be
1:02:02
Speaker 1: around Ray Allen for a handful of years in the
1:02:04
Speaker 1: Celtics front office, so we had a really good run.
1:02:07
Speaker 1: And the lessons you just mentioned transcend sports. They cut
1:02:11
Speaker 1: across sports, whether it's journalism, whether it's on the front
1:02:13
Speaker 1: office side doing what that and I have done, or
1:02:16
Speaker 1: even as a player, and what people see about Ray
1:02:18
Speaker 1: Allen that they know or the game winning shots, the
1:02:21
Speaker 1: all time three point later, all that kind of stuff.
1:02:24
Speaker 1: What they don't see about him. And I know you
1:02:26
Speaker 1: probably know this, John, and that is before the early
1:02:29
Speaker 1: bus in the NBA. In the NBA there are two
1:02:31
Speaker 1: buses that leave the team hotel on the road. Before
1:02:34
Speaker 1: the first bus leaves, which is usually about two hours
1:02:36
Speaker 1: and forty five minutes before the game. For the arena,
1:02:39
Speaker 1: Ray Allen would jump in a taxi. At that point,
1:02:41
Speaker 1: there were no ubers or lifts. He jump in a
1:02:43
Speaker 1: cab with some of the younger staff guys and he
1:02:45
Speaker 1: would be on the court in uniform, going through his
1:02:48
Speaker 1: shooting routine like clockwork. For an hour or so before
1:02:52
Speaker 1: every single game. He came from a military background and
1:02:55
Speaker 1: it was military precision, and I remember at one time
1:02:58
Speaker 1: asking Ray about game winn shots. He made a number
1:03:01
Speaker 1: of them in the pressure and he basically said, Ryan,
1:03:04
Speaker 1: I don't worry about whether the ball goes in or
1:03:06
Speaker 1: not because I know I put in the work. So
1:03:07
Speaker 1: I try to shoot the same shot whether it's a
1:03:09
Speaker 1: minute into the game or with the ball in the air,
1:03:11
Speaker 1: to win or lose the game. It doesn't really matter
1:03:13
Speaker 1: to me. I feel like if the process is right,
1:03:17
Speaker 1: I know I put the time in, the work's the
1:03:19
Speaker 1: same the ball goes in or it doesn't. So those
1:03:21
Speaker 1: lessons I think are really important and impactful to how
1:03:24
Speaker 1: you approach journalism, how you approach being in a front office,
1:03:26
Speaker 1: or even obviously playing, which a few of us get
1:03:29
Speaker 1: to do at that level. I didn't mean to go
1:03:30
Speaker 1: off on a Ray Allen Tangent John, but he brought
1:03:33
Speaker 1: back some some good guys there.
1:03:36
Speaker 3: That's awesome, Ryan, I mean, I could talk about that
1:03:38
Speaker 3: that month and being around Ray forever because it was
1:03:41
Speaker 3: just it was really impactful for me to be able
1:03:42
Speaker 3: to watch it, and it actually ties back into one
1:03:44
Speaker 3: of my other conversations on the road to Cooperstown was
1:03:47
Speaker 3: with Wade Boggs, and we talked about of course, I
1:03:49
Speaker 3: asked him about all the superstitions that he had and
1:03:51
Speaker 3: at least famous for that. Of course, on it it
1:03:54
Speaker 3: even says famous for superstitions are the last words on
1:03:57
Speaker 3: his plaque in Cooperstown, if you can believe it. So,
1:04:00
Speaker 3: But he said to me, it's a different a different way.
1:04:03
Speaker 3: But it's I think of the same idea that he said.
1:04:07
Speaker 3: All the superstitions that he did, which included, by the way,
1:04:09
Speaker 3: not just the chicken, but running his sprints at the
1:04:12
Speaker 3: same time, and different things he did as part of
1:04:14
Speaker 3: his routine. The goal was that he did all of
1:04:17
Speaker 3: those things to almost work his mind through the busyness
1:04:21
Speaker 3: and the anxiety of the day to where once he
1:04:24
Speaker 3: got to the batter's box, he said he was thinking
1:04:28
Speaker 3: about nothing. Think about that the goal was. And now
1:04:32
Speaker 3: we're in this opposite realm of sports now where we
1:04:34
Speaker 3: have all this data, all this information, and Wade Boggs,
1:04:38
Speaker 3: who's the highest career batting average of anybody who's living
1:04:41
Speaker 3: right now. Wade bogg said his goal was to be
1:04:44
Speaker 3: able to get to the plate and think about nothing
1:04:47
Speaker 3: because he had basically worked his way through all any
1:04:50
Speaker 3: of the anxiety through his preparation. It's just a it
1:04:53
Speaker 3: worked for him. I'm not saying it's going to work
1:04:54
Speaker 3: for everybody, but that's that's the way that Wade Boggs
1:04:57
Speaker 3: did it, and it seems like Ryan in some it's
1:05:00
Speaker 3: the same concept to what Ray Allen was doing.
1:05:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
1:05:03
Speaker 2: You know, in my career I was around a lot
1:05:06
Speaker 2: of guys who were superstitious and then plenty more who
1:05:09
Speaker 2: were just very stitious. So, John, one question I'd love
1:05:15
Speaker 2: to hear your thoughts on, and just from a pure
1:05:18
Speaker 2: media relations standpoint, you referenced it earlier. At the end
1:05:20
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty six, there'll be a new collective bargaining negotiation.
1:05:25
Speaker 2: As a member of the media, what advice would you
1:05:27
Speaker 2: give to Tony Clark and Rob Banford from a medium
1:05:30
Speaker 2: relations standpoint as they enter into those negotiations.
1:05:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, that it's a really great question, and it's certainly
1:05:36
Speaker 3: an important one as the messages are are being carried
1:05:41
Speaker 3: out in the public. Whenever they do get carried out
1:05:43
Speaker 3: in the public, I think in some ways that from
1:05:48
Speaker 3: following the last one, I'll say this during the times
1:05:52
Speaker 3: in which we were getting the most details back and
1:05:57
Speaker 3: forth or whether they were ideas or propose that were
1:06:00
Speaker 3: being shared in the public sphere. Typically when that was happening,
1:06:05
Speaker 3: there was not a lot of progress happening. When the
1:06:08
Speaker 3: progress was happening, it got quieter. My hope is someone
1:06:13
Speaker 3: who obviously hopes that that the sport stays on a
1:06:17
Speaker 3: good trajectory, is that is that the latter is the
1:06:20
Speaker 3: case more often than not, which is we're not hearing
1:06:23
Speaker 3: a ton about the details because there's actually progress being made.
1:06:28
Speaker 3: I think it's it's interesting to meet that that the
1:06:31
Speaker 3: game is in such a tremendously positive position. I know
1:06:36
Speaker 3: there are some concerns about competitive balance for the smaller
1:06:39
Speaker 3: market teams. I would point out that you've seen ball
1:06:43
Speaker 3: clubs in Milwaukee and in Detroit at advance within this
1:06:49
Speaker 3: postseason construct to where they're playing really, really great baseball.
1:06:53
Speaker 3: The Reds qualified for the postseason somewhat improbably at the
1:06:56
Speaker 3: expense of the big market New York Mets. So there
1:07:00
Speaker 3: are parts of this game that are actually functioning quite
1:07:04
Speaker 3: well when you look at and obviously you've got an
1:07:07
Speaker 3: environment in which Juan Soto gets three quarters of a
1:07:10
Speaker 3: billion dollars and rather than probably Showhey's record for the
1:07:14
Speaker 3: largest contract lasted all of one year. I don't think
1:07:17
Speaker 3: anybody thought that was going to happen. So the game
1:07:20
Speaker 3: in so many ways is in a very healthy position.
1:07:23
Speaker 3: And I would also say this that at a point
1:07:25
Speaker 3: in American life where so many things are changing and
1:07:30
Speaker 3: so many viewing habits are changing, probably the most important
1:07:34
Speaker 3: thing you can do for the sake of the game
1:07:37
Speaker 3: is to keep it going and to keep the game
1:07:39
Speaker 3: on the mental headspace of young people, old people. And
1:07:44
Speaker 3: at a point where we're looking at different ways of
1:07:47
Speaker 3: delivering the game in terms of platforms and local rights,
1:07:51
Speaker 3: national rights, etc. Probably the most important thing that can
1:07:55
Speaker 3: happen is that things stay on track and that the
1:07:58
Speaker 3: game continue, and that we have we have labor peace
1:08:01
Speaker 3: at the end of the day. And certainly these are
1:08:02
Speaker 3: all things that are well above my pay grade. But
1:08:05
Speaker 3: I think that we don't. I think from a standpoint
1:08:07
Speaker 3: of negotiations, we don't necessarily need all the intricate play
1:08:15
Speaker 3: by play of all the machinations, because, as you know
1:08:17
Speaker 3: that and Ryan from doing negotiations, sometimes things are put
1:08:20
Speaker 3: on the table and then taking off the table as
1:08:23
Speaker 3: part of a very fluid conversation and whatever was proposed
1:08:28
Speaker 3: at one particular time three days ago. Sometimes, unless you
1:08:32
Speaker 3: have the full picture of exactly what everything was put
1:08:35
Speaker 3: on the table, it's hard to really understand parts of
1:08:40
Speaker 3: an offer proposal in context unless you have the whole context,
1:08:45
Speaker 3: and the whole context in these sort of CBA negotiations,
1:08:48
Speaker 3: in my experience, can be very, very difficult to ascertain.
1:08:52
Speaker 1: John, we're recording this show in the middle of the
1:08:54
Speaker 1: Divisional round in the Major League Baseball playoffs, taking a
1:08:58
Speaker 1: look ahead over the next few weeks, even in next
1:09:00
Speaker 1: few months in Major League Baseball. What are you looking
1:09:03
Speaker 1: for to potentially happen the rest of the way in
1:09:06
Speaker 1: the playoffs? Any teams or players you have your eyes on?
1:09:09
Speaker 1: And then what do you think some of the big
1:09:10
Speaker 1: off season story lines will be as we get into
1:09:12
Speaker 1: November December, you know, approaching next season in different agency
1:09:16
Speaker 1: and all that. What are some of the main things
1:09:18
Speaker 1: that you're keep an eye on that you think our
1:09:20
Speaker 1: listeners should be focused on as well?
1:09:23
Speaker 3: Sure? Well, first of all, I think that the teams
1:09:26
Speaker 3: that are still alive in the postseason as we're having
1:09:29
Speaker 3: this conversation, it's a diverse group. There are certainly plenty
1:09:35
Speaker 3: of large market teams, obviously the Los Angeles Dodgers and
1:09:38
Speaker 3: the way that they have played, and then, as I
1:09:41
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, the small market teams like the Milwaukee Brewers.
1:09:44
Speaker 3: I think the Toronto Blue Jays with the way they
1:09:46
Speaker 3: have cultivated such a great home field advantage. And I
1:09:50
Speaker 3: think one important point in that I listened to one
1:09:53
Speaker 3: of your earlier episodes of this show, but the rest
1:09:57
Speaker 3: versus rust conversation, the Blue Jays mounting a fairly strong
1:10:02
Speaker 3: counter argument to the issue of rust by scoring twenty
1:10:07
Speaker 3: three runs in their first two games against the New
1:10:09
Speaker 3: York Yankees. They did not appear rusty in those two games,
1:10:13
Speaker 3: So I think that's a fairly strong counter counter argument
1:10:18
Speaker 3: in that respect. And you've seen teams that are now
1:10:22
Speaker 3: involved at this stage of the playoffs who have what
1:10:25
Speaker 3: I would describe as generational quests behind them in terms
1:10:30
Speaker 3: of chasing a first World Series title. The Brewers have
1:10:33
Speaker 3: never won a World Series. They've been to one, they've
1:10:35
Speaker 3: never won one. The Seattle Mariners that have never been
1:10:38
Speaker 3: to a World Series, let alone one one, so they're
1:10:40
Speaker 3: actually the only act of franchise. The Mariners to never
1:10:43
Speaker 3: reach the World Series at all. The Jay's last one
1:10:47
Speaker 3: to one in the early nineteen nineties. The Tigers, who
1:10:50
Speaker 3: have been playing the Mariners, they last one one in
1:10:52
Speaker 3: the mid nineteen eighties. So there are these generational longings
1:10:57
Speaker 3: that exist for teams to find win one, and I
1:11:01
Speaker 3: think the baseball playoffs are always more captivating and compelling
1:11:05
Speaker 3: when that's the case. We're also seeing, by the way,
1:11:07
Speaker 3: Showe do the two way role for the first time
1:11:11
Speaker 3: in the postseason. Of course he has done it before
1:11:13
Speaker 3: as a hitter a year ago with the world champion Dodgers,
1:11:16
Speaker 3: but now we're seeing him do it for the first
1:11:17
Speaker 3: time in the two way role. I think the American
1:11:21
Speaker 3: League MVP, which of course the ballots were due before
1:11:24
Speaker 3: the first pitch of the postseason, that was a fascinating conversation,
1:11:28
Speaker 3: and of course both Judge and Raleigh are on postseason teams.
1:11:32
Speaker 3: It really comes down to how you view the award
1:11:34
Speaker 3: and what you value. I think that's a really interesting
1:11:36
Speaker 3: conversation there too. As to who's going to eventually triumph,
1:11:39
Speaker 3: obviously the votes are already in, we're not going to
1:11:42
Speaker 3: find that out for another month or so. As to
1:11:43
Speaker 3: who actually won, that award. I think that's a really
1:11:45
Speaker 3: fun one. And then of course in the free agent
1:11:47
Speaker 3: market again, we're potentially seeing some superstars coming over from Japan.
1:11:53
Speaker 3: Maybe not quite on the level of Showe because Showe
1:11:55
Speaker 3: is a one of one, but Munataka Murakami is someone
1:11:59
Speaker 3: that's been scouted. Hea. I just always think when there's
1:12:01
Speaker 3: a large, a big time interest in an international star
1:12:06
Speaker 3: and that was their front and center with you Darvish
1:12:09
Speaker 3: coming over years ago, it's a fascinating thing to watch
1:12:12
Speaker 3: unfold for the sport. What do the Mets do with
1:12:15
Speaker 3: Pete Alonso now that he's going to be a free
1:12:17
Speaker 3: agent again, Alex Bregman can become a free agent again,
1:12:20
Speaker 3: Watching how these different high level free agents handle depending
1:12:25
Speaker 3: uncertainty of next year with the CBA, how that influences
1:12:29
Speaker 3: what kinds of contracts they sign. Trek Scuba coming up
1:12:32
Speaker 3: on the last year of his deal in twenty twenty six.
1:12:34
Speaker 3: So I think there's a lot of really interesting storylines
1:12:37
Speaker 3: across the sport, Ryan that we're going to be getting
1:12:39
Speaker 3: into here as the off season begins.
1:12:40
Speaker 1: And we'll be watching you cover all of them. John
1:12:42
Speaker 1: on the Major League Baseball Network will be listening to
1:12:45
Speaker 1: your podcast, The Road to Cooperstown. Be looking for you
1:12:48
Speaker 1: in ballparks as we're into October in the Major League
1:12:51
Speaker 1: Baseball playoffs. For John Paul Morosi, Fourth Ad Levine, I
1:12:55
Speaker 1: am Ryan McDonald Join us right here next week and
1:12:57
Speaker 1: every week on Rosters Drinks.
1:13:05
Speaker 2: Please join me host That Levine, Ryan McDonough and other
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Speaker 2: general managers every week for Roster Syringes on Apple, Spotify,
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Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.