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Astronaut Love Triangle Leads to Murder Plot? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Just recently, both of my
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Speaker 1: twins now age thirteen, took part in a countrywide scout
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Speaker 1: activity and it was online and part of it included
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Speaker 1: speaking with a real live astronaut. It led us down
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Speaker 1: to NASA to tour the facilities there. Both of the
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Speaker 1: twins ran around trying to actually see and or touch
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Speaker 1: a real astronaut. So when you think of an astronaut,
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Speaker 1: you think the very very best our country has to offer, right,
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Speaker 1: you don't really think of them driving cross country in
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Speaker 1: an adult diaper to wreak havoc on a love rival
1:13
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It is a haunting situation
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Speaker 1: alone late at night in a deserted Orlando Airport parking
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Speaker 1: lot with a stranger in pursuit. Are you walking quickly? Yes,
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Speaker 1: at at a fast paced you know, speedwalking like you
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Speaker 1: read about. So you think you're being pursued? Yeah? Oh definitely.
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Speaker 1: Oh I knew it. Closing fast is a figure wearing
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Speaker 1: a trench coat and a large black wig. How far
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Speaker 1: is the car? Ten spots down? Maybe it was like
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Speaker 1: a mile? Oh my gosh, yeah, I couldn't have been
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Speaker 1: any further. It seemed like a life or death situation.
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Speaker 1: Get to the car. I get to the car, and
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Speaker 1: I got myself in there and locked the door. And
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Speaker 1: just as I was locking the door, she was up
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Speaker 1: under the handle and trying to open the door. Right
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Speaker 1: there is the first clue that this is no ordinary carjacking.
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Speaker 1: And Colleen Shipman's a silent isn't just any woman? Sounds
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Speaker 1: like a strait. I have an Alfred Hitchcock movie. You're
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Speaker 1: at the airport, it's late at night. You can almost
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Speaker 1: hear the steps, and going down those cement parking deck
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Speaker 1: steps and to your car is super dark, and in
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Speaker 1: the distance you see a woman in a trench coat
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Speaker 1: and a big black wig coming right behind you. It
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Speaker 1: really does sound like a nightmare. You get in your car,
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Speaker 1: you hit that lock button, and then the next thing
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Speaker 1: you know is you hear her trying to open the
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Speaker 1: door handle. It sounds like an Alfred Hitchcock movie, but
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Speaker 1: it's real. You're just hearing our friends at ABC speaking
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Speaker 1: to a young woman, Colleen Shipman. Let me introduce you
3:03
Speaker 1: an all star panel making sense of what we know happened.
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Speaker 1: First of all, Judge, Trial Lawyer, Court TV anchor Ashley
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Speaker 1: Wilcott at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist,
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Speaker 1: and boy do we need a shrink. You can find
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Speaker 1: her at panther Mitigation dot com and doctor Sherry is
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Speaker 1: the author of Criminal Behavior, Where law and Psychology intersect.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, founder director of the Coldcase Research Institute and
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Speaker 1: forensic expert, and you can find her at Coldcasecrimes dot org.
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Speaker 1: But first to Kimberly see More, investigative reporter with The
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Speaker 1: Ledger in Lakeland, Florida. She's been on this case from
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Speaker 1: the very very beginning. Is she is the author of
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Speaker 1: star Crossed, the story of astronaut Lisa Nowhak and that's
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Speaker 1: on Amazon and you can find her a kmore The Ledger. Okay,
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Speaker 1: you know, I know you her that first intro about
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Speaker 1: Colleen's shipman getting off a plane late at night Orlando Airport.
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Speaker 1: We've all been there many many times. Kimberly Moore, take
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Speaker 1: a listen to this. Did you know who she was? No,
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Speaker 1: no idea, no clue. I figured she was just, you know,
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Speaker 1: a criminal, you know, just a criminal doing a random crime.
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Speaker 1: Police arrived quickly and arrest her attacker. But hours later
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Speaker 1: at the police station. Colleen Shipman's confusion is only heightened
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Speaker 1: when she spots a NASA photo ID laying on the
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Speaker 1: desk of the detective. I heard the word astronaut in
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Speaker 1: the hallway and I'm thinking, this woman has stolen an
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Speaker 1: astronaut's ID card. And he said, does the name Lisa
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Speaker 1: Noac mean anything to you? And I was like, gosh,
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Speaker 1: you know, in fact, Lisa Noac is a star of
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Speaker 1: the US based program like all astronauts, she's an American
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Speaker 1: hero of epic proportions. We feel like we've done our
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Speaker 1: tests and met the objectives, and we feelect the whole
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Speaker 1: programs back on set. Wow, okay, you know an assai
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Speaker 1: Tryl McCollum. Growing up on a red dirt road in
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Speaker 1: Middle Georgia, the first time I thought I saw a
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Speaker 1: real astronaut was on I Dream of Genie. Do you
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Speaker 1: remember she was a genie that would come out of
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Speaker 1: a bottle and she had a crush on an astronaut.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember that? Absolutely? Yes, they all like the
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Speaker 1: word that beautifully uniform, Yes, him or her. But long
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Speaker 1: story short, the astronauts were somebody you looked up to,
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Speaker 1: that stories were written about. You grew up wanting to
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Speaker 1: be an astronaut? Boy, did that get bass backwards in
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Speaker 1: this case? Kimberly see more investigative reporter with the Ledger,
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Speaker 1: author of star Cross. That's a great title, by the way,
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Speaker 1: the story of astronaut Lisa Noah Kimberly, Who is Lisa Noah?
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Speaker 1: She was a hero up until this point. Now her
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Speaker 1: name is Forever sin Us. With adult diapers, well, and
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Speaker 1: honestly they were actually toddler sized diapers with a cartoon
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Speaker 1: character on them, and she had about okay, why white white?
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Speaker 1: What did you decide? I said they were toddler sized diapers, because,
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Speaker 1: like you, she had twin girls. She still has twin girls.
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Speaker 1: They're in high school now. And she had about fifty
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Speaker 1: clean toddler sized diapers in the trunk of her car.
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Speaker 1: And when the detective searched her car, he found two
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Speaker 1: used diapers in a garbage bag behind the driver's seat,
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Speaker 1: and she had told him, according to the detective Chris Specton,
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Speaker 1: that she she slid these under herself during this trip
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Speaker 1: so she wouldn't have to make these frequent stops. And
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Speaker 1: he and I both think that actually she used them
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Speaker 1: so she wouldn't be scene at rest stops or McDonald's bathrooms.
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Speaker 1: You know that reminds me of Kimerly Moore. Jodi Arius.
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Speaker 1: Remember Ashley Willcott judge, trial, lawyer, court TV anchor that
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Speaker 1: Jodi Arius another killer girlfriend from hell, straight from the
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Speaker 1: Devil's bedroom. Let me tell you. Jody Arius crosses the
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Speaker 1: desert with cans of gas at her car tank so
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Speaker 1: she won't be spotted getting gas at a gas station.
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Speaker 1: She left no trail getting to her lover, Travis Alexander's home,
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Speaker 1: so she could kill him. Remember that, I do, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: I do remember that. And you're right taking any measures,
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Speaker 1: any lengths in order to make certain there were no
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Speaker 1: stops couldn't be traced. What's that called? Oh yeah, premeditative
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Speaker 1: astronaut go ahead. This astronaut did a couple of other
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Speaker 1: things in terms of that. She stayed at a hotel
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Speaker 1: in Diffuniac Springs, Florida, which is way up in the Panhandle.
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Speaker 1: It's just a little, a little spot on the map.
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Speaker 1: And she used an assume name. It was a fake name.
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Speaker 1: She paid cash. She had pulled out all these maps
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Speaker 1: to get her from Houston to Orlando, and she printed
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Speaker 1: out a set of them, and then she hand wrote
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Speaker 1: on them, you know, to purnt them out again. But
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Speaker 1: no tolls, so she didn't want to go through the
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Speaker 1: toll booth ah, so she got maps to avoid the
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Speaker 1: tolls and listen, I know exactly where Daffiniac Springs is,
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Speaker 1: and if you do not want to be spotted, that's
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Speaker 1: a good place to go. Little Now, in fact, my
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Speaker 1: father was born in hey Cody. I think it's an
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Speaker 1: Indian name, and nobody knows where that is, hey Cody, Alabama.
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Speaker 1: It's as I always say, it's near op which is
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Speaker 1: near Enterprise, which is near Mobile. Have to keep going
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Speaker 1: from city to city to city till there's some kind
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Speaker 1: of glint of recognition. So yes, I know exactly where
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Speaker 1: you're talking about, believe me, Kimberly Moore. And of course
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Speaker 1: you know more about it the night that you literally
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Speaker 1: wrote the book. She picked Defuniac Springs to hide out
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Speaker 1: overnight because she knew nobody would find her there. Well,
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Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if the Funiac Springs held some kind
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Speaker 1: of special memory for her because she and her husband
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Speaker 1: went through flight training together at Pensacola Naval Air Station,
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Speaker 1: but then they did survival training. Kiardfuniak Springs, So I
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Speaker 1: don't know if that was the first place that they
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Speaker 1: stayed here. Okay, let me understand something, Kimberly, see more. Now.
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Speaker 1: I know you're a renown investigative reporter, but you really
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Speaker 1: think she was thinking about her husband on this trek,
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Speaker 1: this odyssey. Well, I'm I'm not mentally ill. I'd like
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Speaker 1: to think so, and she was. So it's hard to
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Speaker 1: crawl into the mind of somebody who has lost their mind.
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Speaker 1: But you know, oh, Kimberly, this woman was literally a hero, yes,
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Speaker 1: an astronaut here, one of the first women astronauts, pioneering
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Speaker 1: astronautical journeys, as one of the first females. So it's
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Speaker 1: amazing to me that she ends up like this. Guys,
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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Dave McDaniel at Weston.
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Speaker 1: You think about a cross country trip by car to
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Speaker 1: apparently confront a romantic rival who was coming in on
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Speaker 1: a flight from the same city that you drove in from.
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Speaker 1: And you hear you have about all these disguises, supposedly,
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Speaker 1: and you're talking about an astronaut, somebody who has an
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Speaker 1: occupation of such high esteem going to an airport to
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Speaker 1: supposedly confront the other woman. Then he got prosecutors saying
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Speaker 1: that a good part of the scheme caught on camera.
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Speaker 1: Roughly twelve thirty in the morning, February fifth, two thousand
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Speaker 1: and seven, The airport terminal video seems to show Lisa
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Speaker 1: Noac settling in just after one ten. She wanders in
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Speaker 1: run of the security camera, wearing a jacket, hat and wig.
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Speaker 1: Her romantic rival, Colleen Shipman was apparently to land any minute.
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Speaker 1: Ten minutes later, Shipman with the blue backpack walks toward
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Speaker 1: baggage Claim. Noac keeps her distance, betrayals behind her, and
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Speaker 1: this all caught on video. Listen to more down the stairs.
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Speaker 1: Both women go. Later we see Shipmen waiting for her luggage,
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Speaker 1: while a few feet away Lisa Noac also waits. A
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Speaker 1: minute or two later, we see Noac buttoning up a
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Speaker 1: trench coat. Shipman told police the woman who came after
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Speaker 1: her with pepper spray was wearing a trench coat. Shipman's
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Speaker 1: luggage is delayed, so this plays out another two hours.
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Speaker 1: A Shipman walks to baggage claim a second time, at
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Speaker 1: a quarter after three in the morning. Noac apparently again follows,
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Speaker 1: this time putting some sort of scarf over her head,
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Speaker 1: knocking off her hat, but she doesn't stop to get it.
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Speaker 1: The last shot on the tape a person in a
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Speaker 1: trench coat running past the doors in the area where
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Speaker 1: buses take people to remote airport parking lot. And it
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Speaker 1: was in one of those parking lots where Colleen Shipman
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Speaker 1: alleges that Lisa Noah came after her. Wow. Of course,
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Speaker 1: here the luggage delay plays into the entire scenario Crime
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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, we are talking about one of
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Speaker 1: the most famous astronauts, a female astronaut that now is
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Speaker 1: more infamous than famous. So Kimberly Moore joining US investigative reporter.
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Speaker 1: When you're stuck there at the airport and you're waiting
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Speaker 1: on your luggage, there was a two hour delay. Certainly
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Speaker 1: Colleen Shipman had to notice this woman in a wig
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Speaker 1: and a hat. Everywhere she turned around, there was the woman. Well,
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Speaker 1: she didn't notice her in the airport, Colleen. You know,
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Speaker 1: her back was about two two and a half hours late,
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Speaker 1: and so she went to Starbucks. She got a hot
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Speaker 1: chocolate and something to eat, and then she walked around
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Speaker 1: the airport a little while, and you know, all the
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Speaker 1: whole time Lisa is watching her, and she curled up
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Speaker 1: on a bench and put her backpack under her head
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Speaker 1: and took a nap at one point. And she later
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Speaker 1: told the judge she would have welcomed some company because
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Speaker 1: Lisa Nowak told the detective, told the judge she just
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Speaker 1: wanted to talk to Colleen. Well, she had two hours
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Speaker 1: to walk up to her in the nice, you know,
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Speaker 1: eric conditioned airport and go talk to her, and instead
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Speaker 1: she stopped her through the airport. They got on the
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Speaker 1: same bus together to go out to the Blue Lot,
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Speaker 1: and Colleen noticed her on the bus because Lisa Nowak
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Speaker 1: is a very petite woman, just like Colleen, and her
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Speaker 1: jeans were rolled up on the bottom, and Colleen remembers thinking,
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Speaker 1: you know, I feel her pain. I have to roll
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Speaker 1: up James myself. And noticed her humongous nineteen eighties glasses.
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Speaker 1: And the thing that really stuck out for her is
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Speaker 1: that this woman had on the layers of clothes like
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Speaker 1: you would wear up north in the dead of winter.
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Speaker 1: And it was early February in Florida, but it was
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Speaker 1: kind of a nice evening. It wasn't It wasn't freezing cold,
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Speaker 1: although it can get freezing cold here, but so she
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Speaker 1: gets off the bus, and the bus driver helped Colleen
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Speaker 1: Shipman off the bus, and then noticed that her cell
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Speaker 1: phone was sitting in the seat, and the bus driver
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Speaker 1: got it for and handed it to her. Lisa Noac
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Speaker 1: never said a word to either one of them, and
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Speaker 1: she got off the bus, and Colleen is walking to
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Speaker 1: her car, and she can hear the swish swish swish
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Speaker 1: of Lisa's pants kind of rubbing against each other, and
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Speaker 1: she noticed Lisa's just kind of wander through the parking lot,
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Speaker 1: not really aiming toward a car or anything, and so
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Speaker 1: and then she could hear her running up behind her,
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Speaker 1: and so Colleen threw her backpack in the back of
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Speaker 1: backseat of her car. She jumped in, she locked the door,
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Speaker 1: and suddenly there's this woman flapping at her window and
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Speaker 1: pulling at the door handle trying to get in and
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Speaker 1: can you swear on this show? Okay? So Colleen Shipman
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Speaker 1: looks up and says, holy lady, you know you scared
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Speaker 1: them out of me, and she, Lisa Noax, said, can
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Speaker 1: you give me a ride? My boyfriend isn't here to
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Speaker 1: pick me up. And Colleen, you know, said, you know,
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Speaker 1: I will go and get you some help, and and
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Speaker 1: in the back of her mind she's thinking, why is
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Speaker 1: her boyfriend picking her up in the parking lot and
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Speaker 1: not at the airport terminal. And so Lisa Noax said,
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Speaker 1: can I your phone? And Colleen's phone was dead, thankfully,
16:05
Speaker 1: because Carlin might be dead if it hadn't been. So
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Speaker 1: she held up her phone and showed it to her
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Speaker 1: and she said it's it's dead. And Lisa said, what,
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Speaker 1: I can't hear you, and she kind of started to
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Speaker 1: cry and said, could you please help me? And Colleen
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Speaker 1: went to roll her window down just a little bit,
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Speaker 1: but it's one of those cars. It was a saturn
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Speaker 1: where if you touch the button, it just went all
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Speaker 1: the way down, and Colleen caught it before it went
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Speaker 1: all the way down, but it went down just enough
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Speaker 1: where Lisa Noah pulled a can of pepper spray out
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Speaker 1: and pepper sprayed Colleen. Shipment to doctor Sherry Schwartz, physics
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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us at panther Mitigation dot com. And she
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Speaker 1: is an expert in criminal behavior and it's actually written
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Speaker 1: the book on that. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. It's amazing how we as humans have
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Speaker 1: this into tuition that something is not quite right. We
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Speaker 1: may not realize immediately that we are in peril, but
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Speaker 1: all of our senses scream something is off kilter. To
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Speaker 1: what do you attribute that, Well, that's our fight or
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Speaker 1: flight response. I remember when I was in college, one
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Speaker 1: of my professors called it lizard brain because it's so primitive.
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Speaker 1: It literally is our instinct telling us that something's not right.
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Speaker 1: And Colleen Shipman's intuition, her instinct went into overdrive because
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Speaker 1: she knew something was wrong. But she's also clearly empathic
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Speaker 1: because she sees a woman struggling and crying in front
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Speaker 1: of her, and she wants to help her. And this
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Speaker 1: is very often how female victims of crime get into
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Speaker 1: trouble from empathy. You're so right, doctor Sherry Schwartz. Yet
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Speaker 1: again to you, Cheryl McCullum. You and Ashi and I
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Speaker 1: have discussed many many times that feeling. I've spoken to
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Speaker 1: so many crime victims and their families, crime victims that
18:10
Speaker 1: have an extreme sense of foreboding that something's not exactly
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Speaker 1: right before they become a victim, and crime victims families
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Speaker 1: that separated in time and space have a sense of
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Speaker 1: foreboding that something is going wrong. I don't know what
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Speaker 1: that is, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a hunch
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Speaker 1: or a gut feeling. I really believe Cheryl, it is
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Speaker 1: a sense that we have not yet identified as one
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Speaker 1: of the senses, such as touched to a smell, sight, hearing,
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Speaker 1: but something born of thousands and thousands of years, millions
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Speaker 1: of years of evolution. I think it's a very significant Oh.
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Speaker 1: I do too. Unfortunately, this victim listen to it. She
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Speaker 1: didn't ignore it and say, gosh, this poor woman is,
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Speaker 1: you know, stuck here. She's asking for help. I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: help her. If she had led that woman into her vehicle,
19:11
Speaker 1: she would be dead. She had cash, she had printed
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Speaker 1: out emails that she's spent hours reading, printed them out
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Speaker 1: to bring them with her. She had pepper spray, she
19:24
Speaker 1: had a knife, Nancy a rubber mallet, she had gloves.
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Speaker 1: I mean, this was gonna be a horrible ending if
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Speaker 1: she get allowed that to happen. And the emails were
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Speaker 1: regarding what Cheryl McCollum the relationship between the victim and
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Speaker 1: the astronaut's former boyfriend. So she breaks into his house.
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Speaker 1: It starts reading all these emails about how they who
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Speaker 1: whoa wait, wait, wait wait, Lisa no whack the astronaut
19:52
Speaker 1: breaks into boyfriend Bill oath Line aka Billy Oh, also
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Speaker 1: an astronaut home and what started reading? And I interject
20:03
Speaker 1: something here. She actually had a jump in. She had
20:06
Speaker 1: a key to his apartment that he had given to her,
20:09
Speaker 1: and they thought that was stupid right there. Well, well
20:13
Speaker 1: he used the key he gave her, but he didn't
20:17
Speaker 1: want her there. They were done, so she used the
20:20
Speaker 1: key that she shouldn't have used at that time to
20:23
Speaker 1: read emails. She absolutely had no business reading that. I
20:27
Speaker 1: think further flipped her out right. And you know, Ashley Walcott,
20:31
Speaker 1: could somebody surprise me one time? Another a love triangle?
20:35
Speaker 1: You know, I don't get it. I guess I'm gonna
20:36
Speaker 1: go to the shrink after you, Ashley. And I mean
20:39
Speaker 1: that in a loving, caring way, Doctor Sherry Schwartz. But Ashley,
20:43
Speaker 1: another a love triangle attack by another killer girlfriend. Listen,
20:49
Speaker 1: if the guy's dating somebody else, leave right who wants sake?
20:55
Speaker 1: You know, That's what I've told my children. When you
20:57
Speaker 1: grow up and you have a boyfriend's slash girlfriend or whatever,
21:02
Speaker 1: don't chase them, because what do you do when somebody
21:05
Speaker 1: chases you, run, don't chase them. You want another woman, fine,
21:10
Speaker 1: have at it. I mean I don't give it. Well,
21:12
Speaker 1: and you should allow to think more of yourself. Well,
21:16
Speaker 1: what ask? You should think more of yourself? Right? If
21:18
Speaker 1: somebody doesn't want you, guess what? Okay, then I don't
21:22
Speaker 1: want you either, because I think enough of myself to
21:25
Speaker 1: realize I deserve to be with somebody who wants to
21:28
Speaker 1: be with me. And like you said, le Plus Ashley,
21:31
Speaker 1: if somebody didn't want to be with you, they're clearly
21:33
Speaker 1: insane and you don't need their doctor bills. Okay. Did
21:37
Speaker 1: I hear Sherry Schwartz jumping in? Yeah, I was laughing,
21:41
Speaker 1: but this is this is really no laughing matter. You know.
21:46
Speaker 1: I under well, I'm happy because in this case it's
21:49
Speaker 1: a rarity for me and we're doing a jig here
21:52
Speaker 1: in the studio because the victim actually live this time. Yeah,
21:55
Speaker 1: this is a huge moment of celebration for us, doctor
21:59
Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz. Guess typically by the time it gets on
22:02
Speaker 1: crime stories, you're looking at a funeral and we're not today.
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Speaker 1: So I'm happy about this. But it's this close. You're right,
22:10
Speaker 1: it's it's very serious. Go ahead, Well, I understand, you know,
22:15
Speaker 1: there was a lot I remember the case actually because
22:17
Speaker 1: I live in Florida, but there was a lot of
22:20
Speaker 1: talk at the time, and even now through Kimberly Moore's book,
22:24
Speaker 1: which is very good. I haven't gotten through it completely yet,
22:27
Speaker 1: but it's very good think about her being mentally ill,
22:33
Speaker 1: and seriously mentally ill. People don't have the they're not
22:38
Speaker 1: able to be that organized in their thinking to be
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Speaker 1: able to do all of the planning that she did.
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Speaker 1: And there's so many points in the planning, the disguise
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Speaker 1: to getting in the car, to all the weapons that
22:50
Speaker 1: she had with her, and all the things stopping into
22:53
Speaker 1: funiac springs that speak to there's probably some mental health
22:58
Speaker 1: issue there, more likely a personnelity the disorder. And this
23:02
Speaker 1: rage that's directed at miss Colleen Shipman is this sounds
23:08
Speaker 1: to me more like narcissistic rage. Now I've never met
23:11
Speaker 1: Lisa Noac, I don't really know all of the you know,
23:14
Speaker 1: ins and outs of her psychopathology, but narcissistic rage is
23:19
Speaker 1: this is this outburst of intense anger and it doesn't
23:21
Speaker 1: have to be screaming and yelling. It could be silent,
23:24
Speaker 1: simmering but what happens is somebody who has a narcissistic
23:28
Speaker 1: personality disorder. They have this exaggerated or overly inflated sense
23:33
Speaker 1: of their own self importance, and so when they're told no,
23:38
Speaker 1: they don't like that. And Lisa Noac was someone who
23:41
Speaker 1: was rarely told no. She had to work very hard.
23:44
Speaker 1: I'm sure to assend to the level that she did,
23:47
Speaker 1: but she was rarely told no. And so when she's
23:51
Speaker 1: being told no, if you have, you know, this level
23:54
Speaker 1: of narcissism, well that is unacceptable because you have this
23:59
Speaker 1: inflation sense of self importance. You think that you are
24:03
Speaker 1: the best of the best. How dare this woman get
24:06
Speaker 1: in my way? I'm going to fix it her way.
24:09
Speaker 1: And I time stories with Nancy Grace Kimberly Moore. I
24:28
Speaker 1: want to hear a little bit about no x background,
24:32
Speaker 1: how she worked her way all the way up to
24:34
Speaker 1: become one of the first female astronauts. Okay, and I
24:37
Speaker 1: do have her psychiatric evaluations, and I'll go over in
24:41
Speaker 1: just a second her diagnosis. So she was co valedictorian
24:47
Speaker 1: of Charles Woodward High School in nineteen eighty one. She
24:50
Speaker 1: was at the top of her class. She went to
24:54
Speaker 1: the Naval Academy in nineteen eighty one, and that was
24:57
Speaker 1: a time when not very many women, and so i'm
25:03
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure there was hazing involved. I know
25:06
Speaker 1: there's kind of an infamous story among her classmates. Once
25:11
Speaker 1: you arrive at the Naval Academy, they cut your hair,
25:16
Speaker 1: they give you your uniform as a pleab or, and
25:21
Speaker 1: and then you take all your stuff that they've given you.
25:24
Speaker 1: They give you a duffel bag and you go up
25:27
Speaker 1: to your room. And it took her an hour to
25:31
Speaker 1: find her room in I believe it's Bancroft Hall, which
25:35
Speaker 1: houses all of the midshipment. So she graduated in nineteen
25:40
Speaker 1: eighty five, and excuse me, became a naval lieutenant and
25:47
Speaker 1: she went to flight training in Pensacola. She eventually learned
25:50
Speaker 1: how to fly thirty different kinds of aircraft, including experimental aircraft.
25:57
Speaker 1: And in nineteen ninety five, she and twenty five hundred
26:01
Speaker 1: other people applied to become an astronaut. One hundred and
26:05
Speaker 1: twenty were chosen for interviews, and then in nineteen ninety
26:09
Speaker 1: six she was selected for that astronaut class. And that
26:14
Speaker 1: astronaut class actually included a couple of people who died
26:17
Speaker 1: on the Space Shuttle Columbia. The only woman that she
26:22
Speaker 1: really was ever truly close to was doctor Laurel Clark,
26:25
Speaker 1: who perished on board Columbia. And you know, and Lisa
26:29
Speaker 1: sat in her living room with her son and watched
26:34
Speaker 1: this happen on NASA TV, and she, you know, she
26:39
Speaker 1: and the other astronauts knew what had happened, and they
26:43
Speaker 1: knew that their friends had died because there just was
26:47
Speaker 1: no way to survive that. So at the time, I
26:51
Speaker 1: believe her son was about nine or ten years old,
26:54
Speaker 1: and she also had twin girls, and so she was
27:00
Speaker 1: a mom of three children. She was running the household
27:03
Speaker 1: by herself because I believe her husband was deployed after
27:08
Speaker 1: the nine to eleven horrible incident, so you know, she
27:15
Speaker 1: had a lot of pressure. She was also the family
27:18
Speaker 1: liaison officer for Laurel Clark's family, helping them fill out
27:22
Speaker 1: the paperwork, which you know, there's mounds and mounds of
27:25
Speaker 1: paperwork when anyone dies, but you know, here we have astronauts.
27:30
Speaker 1: And Laurel Clark had a son who was about her
27:32
Speaker 1: own son's age, and she looked after him and took
27:35
Speaker 1: care of him. Wow. So she's super mom and an
27:39
Speaker 1: astronaut right and so much more. You met she took
27:42
Speaker 1: her an hour to get to her room at the
27:44
Speaker 1: Naval Academy. What's the significance of that? She had no
27:47
Speaker 1: sense of direction? And you know, in the past, I
27:50
Speaker 1: used to think that only dumb people got lost. But
27:53
Speaker 1: I have a very good friend. She's one of the
27:54
Speaker 1: smartest people I know, and she could not find her
27:56
Speaker 1: way out of a wet paper bag. You know. I've
27:59
Speaker 1: been reading about that just recently, and apparently it has
28:02
Speaker 1: something um physical as it's you're the way you're hardwired.
28:09
Speaker 1: Either you are a good pathfinder or you're not, and
28:13
Speaker 1: it's kind of genetic. There's feeling nothing you can do
28:16
Speaker 1: about it. I guess hence all the maps she had.
28:20
Speaker 1: So this incredible woman is in the middle of a
28:25
Speaker 1: love triangle. Take a listen to our friends at ABC
28:30
Speaker 1: cut eight. But in previously unreleased audio recordings of her
28:34
Speaker 1: interrogation obtained by twenty twenty, she hints at her affections
28:38
Speaker 1: for the same men. I don't feel like I don't
28:59
Speaker 1: just weeks or oh Flyne, also known as Billy oh
29:02
Speaker 1: phighlighted a shuttle home from the space station. But now
29:06
Speaker 1: he may face an even greater challenge navigating the perils
29:10
Speaker 1: of Lisa and Colleen so too. Kimberly Seymore, investigative reporter
29:14
Speaker 1: and author of the Story of Lisa Noah on Amazon.
29:19
Speaker 1: How did she and I assume she's still married? She
29:23
Speaker 1: being Lisa Noac? The mom askedtronaut get hooked up with
29:28
Speaker 1: Billy Line Billy, another astronaut, how'd that happened? Well, her
29:34
Speaker 1: marriage had been pretty rocky and they had agreed years
29:40
Speaker 1: before her shuttle flight in July of two thousand and
29:43
Speaker 1: six that once she was down with her flight, they
29:46
Speaker 1: would they would part ways. And um so she and
29:52
Speaker 1: Billy they had met actually at Paxton at Naval Air
29:57
Speaker 1: Station um in Mary, Ireland, and they went on cold
30:04
Speaker 1: weather survival training in Canada in two thousand and four,
30:08
Speaker 1: and it was a year after the Columbia accident, and
30:12
Speaker 1: it was really, I think the first time that she
30:14
Speaker 1: was away from home and away from all those responsibilities,
30:18
Speaker 1: and he was on this training. I believe there were
30:22
Speaker 1: eight astronauts on it. You know, there's camp fires, there's tents,
30:28
Speaker 1: there's trying to stay warm, and the speculation is that
30:34
Speaker 1: that's where it began and he married. He was married
30:38
Speaker 1: at the time of this survival training. He got divorced
30:41
Speaker 1: the following year. His mother in law originally came out
30:46
Speaker 1: and blamed Lisa after this incident happened. She said that
30:50
Speaker 1: Lisa was the reason his marriage fell apart. She recanted
30:53
Speaker 1: on that. So you know, they were seeing each other,
30:59
Speaker 1: they made plans to spend their lives together and um,
31:06
Speaker 1: and so this was not just a fleeting affair. Oh No,
31:10
Speaker 1: between Lisa Nowack and as married astronaut Billy ath a line,
31:15
Speaker 1: this has been going on planned. Why so, I guess
31:19
Speaker 1: that makes the rejection even worse, right, So, in November
31:23
Speaker 1: she had about five major life events happened in the
31:26
Speaker 1: span of five weeks. He met Colleen Shipman in November
31:34
Speaker 1: of two thousand and six, and the attraction and the
31:38
Speaker 1: sparks were immediate and they fell in love. As a
31:42
Speaker 1: matter of fact, it was so quick that he invited
31:45
Speaker 1: her to be at his Space Shuttle launch in December.
31:50
Speaker 1: And Okay, I'm sorry, Kimberly Moore, I disagree because Sheryl
31:55
Speaker 1: McCallum say, I'm driving through the drive through, and I said,
32:00
Speaker 1: what many people would think is a good looking man.
32:03
Speaker 1: You know what I think over his head, nothing but trouble.
32:08
Speaker 1: So when you feel that spark, yeah, then you can decide, oh,
32:15
Speaker 1: should we go have coffee? No, you shouldn't, because that's
32:18
Speaker 1: how things. Quote just happened. It just happened. No, it
32:22
Speaker 1: didn't just happen. You made it happen. You know, I
32:26
Speaker 1: see this a little bit. You say that Stewie kettle
32:29
Speaker 1: of fish go by. That's nothing but trouble. Don't go
32:32
Speaker 1: have a cup of coffee. Don't just meet for a lunch,
32:35
Speaker 1: don't that's how it happens. Yeah, well, none of it
32:38
Speaker 1: just happened. There's some stamps involved. But I just want
32:41
Speaker 1: to point out one thing. High school, top of her class. College,
32:45
Speaker 1: she was at the top military academy, very rigorous. Then
32:49
Speaker 1: she goes into a master's degree, Nancy for aeronautical engineering,
32:54
Speaker 1: you know again rigorous, thanking my head, brilliant. Then she
32:57
Speaker 1: goes the astronaut training of first come. This woman ever fails.
33:03
Speaker 1: It is her marriage. The second time she fails. Oh
33:07
Speaker 1: we need a shrink on that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
33:25
Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz. Cheryl McCollum is right, So this would
33:28
Speaker 1: be her first big fail. Well, it does seem that
33:31
Speaker 1: way based on what we know about her. There may
33:33
Speaker 1: have been some you know, less dramatic failures, you know,
33:39
Speaker 1: along the way, along her journey through school and things
33:41
Speaker 1: like that, but it doesn't sound like that. It sounds
33:44
Speaker 1: like this was someone who was incredibly successful. We know
33:48
Speaker 1: that this is objective evidence, right, She became an astronaut
33:52
Speaker 1: at NASA as a woman, you know, at that time.
33:57
Speaker 1: In particular, I can only imagine how hard she had
34:00
Speaker 1: to work to get there. But that's why I feel
34:02
Speaker 1: like russure and now this the one thing. She can't
34:07
Speaker 1: make it work because Billy Oh has suddenly fallen for
34:12
Speaker 1: somebody else. That's someone Colleen Shipman. Take a listen to
34:17
Speaker 1: Colleen Shipman. Are cut nine. My name is Colleen Shipman.
34:21
Speaker 1: Shortly after I turned thirty years old, Lisa Noac aunted
34:25
Speaker 1: me down and attacked me and a parking lot. Her
34:30
Speaker 1: attack was part of a well researched, well planned, and
34:35
Speaker 1: deliberate crime. Now, almost three years later, I'm still reeling
34:39
Speaker 1: from her vicious attack, and I'm still trying to put
34:42
Speaker 1: my life back together amidst the terrible, rementless media scrutiny
34:47
Speaker 1: that Lisa Noac, thank you brought down on me, first
34:50
Speaker 1: with her attack and later with her PR campaign. I
34:54
Speaker 1: knew in my heart when Lisa Noac attacked me that
34:58
Speaker 1: she was going to kill me. It was in her
35:01
Speaker 1: eyes a blood chilling expression of limitless rage and glee.
35:10
Speaker 1: It's my understanding that Lisa Noac had researched murder, corpse dismemberment,
35:15
Speaker 1: as well as disguises and trace evidence. I'm one hundred
35:19
Speaker 1: percent certain that Lisa Noak came here to murder me.
35:22
Speaker 1: Oh yes, she did research corpse dismemberment. And to you,
35:30
Speaker 1: kimberly See Moore, author of star Cross, the story of
35:33
Speaker 1: astronaut Lisa Noac, what does Colleen's Shipman mean when she
35:37
Speaker 1: describes noax pr campaign against me? Oh gosh, part of
35:44
Speaker 1: what her attorney, Donald Lickaback. And by the way, if
35:47
Speaker 1: you're ever in trouble in Orlando, you want to call
35:50
Speaker 1: Donald Lickaback because he got a great deal for Lisa Noack.
35:53
Speaker 1: But now a fast but I hope we never made
35:56
Speaker 1: go ahead. He he posited that Colleen Shipman actually was
36:03
Speaker 1: not pepper sprayed. The pepper spraye went into her car.
36:09
Speaker 1: I mean she did suffer the ill effects of being
36:12
Speaker 1: pepper sprayed. He I'm trying to think what I mean.
36:17
Speaker 1: He also said that the diaper story was not true.
36:21
Speaker 1: He said, blah blah blah. That sounds like a defense
36:24
Speaker 1: attorney throwing anything he can up against the wall. Take
36:26
Speaker 1: to listen to Colleen Shipman. She began preparing for her
36:29
Speaker 1: crimes weeks before she committed them. She thoroughly researched my
36:33
Speaker 1: personal information. She entered my boyfriend's apartment, and without his
36:37
Speaker 1: permission or knowledge, she stole my contact information, my travel itinerary,
36:42
Speaker 1: and several personal emails between myself and my boyfriend. She
36:46
Speaker 1: also collected my address, the latitude and longitude coordinates of
36:50
Speaker 1: my house, directions to my house, my cell phone number,
36:54
Speaker 1: and my email address. She gathered weapons and tortured devices, which,
37:00
Speaker 1: in her own words, were too scary to even think about,
37:02
Speaker 1: but apparently not scary enough to prevent her from bringing
37:05
Speaker 1: them along. During her attack on me, Lisa NOAXX claimed
37:09
Speaker 1: that she only wanted to talk to me. Is it
37:10
Speaker 1: best ridiculous? I believe it is one of many lies
37:13
Speaker 1: that she designed to deceive and gain sympathy from this court. NASA,
37:18
Speaker 1: the US Navy, her friends, her family, and the American people.
37:21
Speaker 1: Please don't be fooled. I was fooled. Lisa Noak is
37:25
Speaker 1: a very good actress to you, actually will caught judge
37:28
Speaker 1: and trial lawyer anchor Court TV. She was researching corpse dismemberment.
37:34
Speaker 1: She had the longitude and latitude of the victim's home,
37:39
Speaker 1: and reportedly she had a double bag full of torture devices.
37:44
Speaker 1: That's attempted murder absolutely. I was just going to say
37:48
Speaker 1: that as well, and premeditated. We go back to that piece, premeditated.
37:52
Speaker 1: Look at all the plannings she put into it. It
37:54
Speaker 1: is attempted murder. Not only that, but I just have
37:57
Speaker 1: to comment it is not unusual exceedingly intelligent individuals when
38:03
Speaker 1: they partake and criminal activity and become someone who gets
38:07
Speaker 1: obsessed like this, go to such great lengths and have
38:11
Speaker 1: a very deliberate, well thought out in their mind plans.
38:15
Speaker 1: You know what, You're so right, Ashley? What's again? And
38:18
Speaker 1: of course you know your way around the courtroom, Kimberly seymore,
38:22
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about this alleged duffel bag
38:24
Speaker 1: full of torture devices? Well, Mark Ferman called it a
38:28
Speaker 1: murder kit. She had the steel mallet. She had a
38:32
Speaker 1: baby pistol that was loaded and ready to fire. And
38:35
Speaker 1: she had a hunting knife, the five inch hunting knife.
38:38
Speaker 1: But she had bought She had bought the baby pistol
38:41
Speaker 1: and the hunting knife in the weeks before this happened.
38:46
Speaker 1: And I want to go back to her psychological diagnosis.
38:49
Speaker 1: She had a Baker's dozen lists of diagnosis, but the
38:54
Speaker 1: major ones were obsessive compulsive disorder, major depressive disorder, a
39:00
Speaker 1: single episode that was severe, a brief psychotic disorder with
39:04
Speaker 1: march stressors producing a mixed manic and depressive state, Asperger's disorder,
39:11
Speaker 1: and she had she had stopped eating and sleeping basically
39:15
Speaker 1: in the five weeks leading up to this. You know,
39:19
Speaker 1: her husband moved out in mid December. She was told
39:24
Speaker 1: she would not get the next Shuttle mission, and because
39:27
Speaker 1: there were so few Shuttle missions left, that essentially ended
39:30
Speaker 1: her astronaut career. She was told she was not a
39:33
Speaker 1: good team player in space, and that's you want to
39:36
Speaker 1: be able to depend on your coworkers in space. She
39:40
Speaker 1: lost fifteen percent of her body mash. She went from
39:44
Speaker 1: one twenty seven to one oh seven, and she was
39:46
Speaker 1: already a very petite but fit woman, and to drop
39:52
Speaker 1: down to one oh seven was huge. She told her
39:55
Speaker 1: psychiatrists that she had reached this euphoric state where she
39:59
Speaker 1: felt like really didn't need to sleep a whole lot,
40:03
Speaker 1: and she was sleeping two to three hours a night,
40:08
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, her husband moved out. And
40:10
Speaker 1: then after January, after the new year, is when Billy
40:14
Speaker 1: Okline sat her down and said, Hey, I've met somebody
40:18
Speaker 1: else and I want to pursue a relationship with this woman,
40:21
Speaker 1: you know, Kimberly Seymour. I appreciate all that I really do,
40:26
Speaker 1: and if I were a dear Abby, i'd write a
40:28
Speaker 1: really long leader addressing each one of those. But I'm
40:32
Speaker 1: not dear Abby. I'm looking for the truth about an
40:36
Speaker 1: attempted murder. Right the rest is just don't care. Take
40:42
Speaker 1: a listen to Kalie's shipman are cut thirteen. In her
40:45
Speaker 1: own words, she blasted me with what felt like acid.
40:49
Speaker 1: It burned my eyes, my nose, in my mouth, and
40:51
Speaker 1: it sucked the air out of me. I don't know
40:54
Speaker 1: what other weapons she had at there ready, because I
40:56
Speaker 1: didn't hang around to find out. I stomped on the
40:59
Speaker 1: gas and I wondered if there was a gun pointed
41:00
Speaker 1: at my head. My eyes and throat were on fire,
41:03
Speaker 1: my lungs ached for air. I fought the urge to
41:06
Speaker 1: breathe in whatever poison it was. That she hits Braden backing,
41:08
Speaker 1: and I was sure that she had just tried to
41:10
Speaker 1: kill me to steal my car. I had no idea
41:12
Speaker 1: that a high ranking, high paid military officer had just
41:15
Speaker 1: attacked me. I believe I escaped a horrible death at night.
41:19
Speaker 1: It was a nightmare, and the nightmare continues in the
41:21
Speaker 1: media with suggestions that I lied or changed. Lisa Noac
41:25
Speaker 1: attacked me is the truth, and I never changed my story.
41:29
Speaker 1: Lisa Noac did chase me to my car. She did
41:31
Speaker 1: force her way into my car. She tricked me in
41:34
Speaker 1: it with pepper spray, and she did spray me directly
41:36
Speaker 1: with pepper spray. I just can't get over the computer
41:39
Speaker 1: searches for corpse dismemberment and so many other indications premeditated
41:46
Speaker 1: attempted murder, Kimberly see more. I take it that now
41:51
Speaker 1: Lisa noaht female astronaut, is now out of jail, walking free.
41:56
Speaker 1: What has happened to the other characters of this scenario
41:59
Speaker 1: for ass Helleen Shipman, the victim, and the love object
42:03
Speaker 1: Billy Offline. Well, so Lisa Noac had a hearing with
42:08
Speaker 1: the Navy about a year after she pled no contests
42:13
Speaker 1: and adjudication was withheld. So the hearing with the Navy
42:18
Speaker 1: was to determine whether or not they were going to
42:20
Speaker 1: let her stay in and she was dismissed from the
42:24
Speaker 1: Navy with an other than honorable discharge, which meant she
42:28
Speaker 1: could keep her Navy pension, which she did, which is
42:32
Speaker 1: about six thousand dollars a month. And from what I understand,
42:37
Speaker 1: she might be doing some consulting work with the aviation
42:42
Speaker 1: industry or even with the Navy itself. So Colleen Shipman
42:47
Speaker 1: and Billy Offline were not at her navel hearing because
42:50
Speaker 1: they had the best excuse ever. They were on their
42:54
Speaker 1: honeymoon in Bora, Bora. I guess that they now had.
42:58
Speaker 1: They now have a son who they're teaching to fly.
43:02
Speaker 1: They live in Alaska and just living happily ever after
43:05
Speaker 1: college there. She is in Houston and sometimes in San
43:12
Speaker 1: Diego or near San Diego. So they got as far
43:15
Speaker 1: away from her as possible. You can't really get much
43:18
Speaker 1: further away than Alaska and live in the US Alaska, right.
43:23
Speaker 1: He is from Alaska, grew up there. His parents are there.
43:26
Speaker 1: I advise them to stay there. Long story short, she's
43:34
Speaker 1: walking free, Colleen shipman and Sat marrying Billie, a feline,
43:40
Speaker 1: and the two of them live happily ever after. But
43:44
Speaker 1: think of how close this came to a very different
43:49
Speaker 1: ending about that far, just that much further down that window,
43:59
Speaker 1: and I know it would have got her hand around
44:03
Speaker 1: Colleen's shipman's throat. Kill our girlfriends. Nancy Grace signing off,
44:10
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,