Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / Hijab Struggles: Men tell Women how to dress (Ft. Sister Zahra Al Alawi)

Transcript

Hijab Struggles: Men tell Women how to dress (Ft. Sister Zahra Al Alawi) · After Maghrib 🌙

• 0:01
  Smila Rahmad Rahim, Salaam Alaikum and welcome back to the
• 0:04
  aftermath of podcast The Late Night Buzz Hijab, Hijab, Hijab
• 0:09
  Are you on the verge of taking off your hijab?
• 0:12
  Are you struggling with hijab or do we as men have a place and a
• 0:17
  right to discuss this topic Hijab.
• 0:18
  For many of you it may be sensitive, but that's what the
• 0:21
  aftermath of podcast is here. Ambassador.
• 0:25
  No, I'm not going to say that word.
• 0:26
  I'm going to ignore that word. Salaam alaikum.
• 0:38
  I was going. To say it's not a responsibility
• 0:40
  but. No, it is I.
• 0:41
  Think we have some sort of responsibility?
• 0:42
  There's an element of responsibility, yeah.
• 0:44
  But do you notice this is probably, I don't know what
• 0:47
  episode this will be when when it comes out, but we would have
• 0:50
  done 85 ish 90. I'm banking 88, yeah, I think.
• 0:55
  God knows. We'll see.
• 0:56
  But there's a reason we haven't done this topic, at least like,
• 1:01
  like obviously we talk about hijab, it comes up all the time.
• 1:04
  But there's. I feel like we've not allocated
• 1:07
  a full discussion on this for a while.
• 1:10
  And that's because I think for us, or at least for me, we need
• 1:14
  to build courage to a degree, to talk about it because I feel
• 1:18
  like there's a lot of so many facets of hijab to get into a
• 1:22
  lot of feelings involved. Some people are very, you know,
• 1:27
  it's obviously a contentious topic to the point everyone's
• 1:29
  got personal experiences, male or female, and obviously we
• 1:33
  wanted the right person to join us as well.
• 1:35
  So we are honoured to be joined by a colleague and someone who
• 1:40
  martial arts, teaching all of the young sisters in our
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  community, young and old as well, who who are large, does a
• 1:49
  large part of of work in this field as well.
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  And that's Sister Zaha Alu Islam Alaikum.
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  Sister, how you doing? Good, Hamdullah, I'm very happy
• 1:57
  to be here. Yeah, good.
• 1:58
  It feels like a long time coming.
• 2:00
  Yeah, we've been planning this podcast for such a lot years.
• 2:03
  Probably Hamdullah. Finally, Hamdullah.
• 2:06
  Thanks for coming on, coming on. Hamdullah.
• 2:08
  Hamdullah. So look big topic.
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  We we I think we want to kind of before we get into it maybe do a
• 2:16
  small exercise that we do so for them for the people who join.
• 2:19
  By the way guys we're fasting. So we're going to be we're just
• 2:22
  we're we're filming this on my vines.
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  Empty. Yeah.
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  So I'm like half a sleeve tonight.
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  It's on my night right now. So we're yeah, just somewhere
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  else. Anyway, when we usually have
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  have anyone who comes on the podcast, obviously we want to
• 2:35
  get to know you off the member or outside of the majalis and
• 2:39
  what not. So we usually have an exercise
• 2:43
  where we'll ask you a question to get to know you.
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  The question that we want to ask you today is if you could have
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  dinner with anyone who is not from Islam, so no religious
• 2:57
  figure, who would it be? And then someone from Islam, if
• 3:00
  you could host them at your house and what would you feed
• 3:02
  them? Well, dead or or alive?
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  Dead or alive? Yeah, up to you.
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  I think definitely probably the prophets in Islamic in in an
• 3:17
  Islamic sense, no. In fact, in fact, can I say
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  anyone, OK, so I think in an Islamic someone that is an
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  Islamic. I think fathom started out
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  without a doubt. I think there's a lot of
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  questions in terms of where she was, where she's buried, what's
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  happening, what happened. I would just would love to sit
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  with her and you know she is the best of the best and the
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  greatest woman to have ever lived in this, in this earth.
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  And I think choosing anyone else will do injustice.
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  She is the greatest. And yeah, I would definitely
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  would love to have a seat with her.
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  I'm not worthy of that. But yeah, non religious, non
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  Islamic. I really don't know.
• 4:01
  It's a hard one. Do you ask?
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  What was your guests? Do we ask at all or I guess no,
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  we asked you at all. He he had a sick answer.
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  He said. So he said Nelson Mandela and
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  Emila Montminnion. But what would you feed her If
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  you could make her a meal, or if you could host her, what would
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  you present to her? Say the Fatima Zala.
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  The best or the best? I think first of all, yeah, I
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  would bring the best cook, bring it from outside, just host a
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  huge. And I would also bring woman
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  from the community to sit with us as well because you know, I
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  think especially as woman we don't have that guidance as
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  other males do and it's very limited.
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  And I think Fatima Zahra, Ali Salaam would be able to guide
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  and and present a lot of us and and guide us in it.
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  But food, I don't know why I would cook.
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  I've never thought of these questions.
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  So I have. No idea what we're here for.
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  That's what we do, yeah. Yeah, I would cook myself.
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  Obviously, when the best comes to your house, you would cook
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  whatever. And everything and.
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  Everything and anything and a huge spread, yeah.
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  I sent them. So did you like that?
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  I like it. Get me hungry.
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  What? I'm thinking now of all
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  different types of food because we're not saying the best.
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  And Charlotte, you never know. This becomes a reality in
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  gender. Charlotte, Charlotte May Allah
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  guide us in the right path and Charlotte that we have that
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  status. Ahmed Ahmed Yeah, Where do we
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  begin? Good point.
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  I think we should jump straight in.
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  I know we talked about this before the podcast.
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  I think we should go straight into it.
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  We posted a question on Instagram about asking people
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  what their struggles and their dalamazar in terms of hijab.
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  We probably got since last night, 100 plus responses at
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  least. We get DMS all the time from
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  sisters particularly who have got hijab struggles.
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  We're a group of three guys who have access to the Instagram
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  account or four guys. So we don't really have, you
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  know, the the tools really to answer or release the experience
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  to answer with. And we're not scholars as well,
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  so that doesn't help. But at the same time, we
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  recognise that there's an issue within the community, both for
• 6:07
  the sisters and even for men. There's there's men who want
• 6:11
  sisters who wear good hijab. There's also men who want
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  sisters who don't wear good hijab.
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  At the same time, you've got fathers, you've got brothers who
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  are witnessing their daughters or their sisters, or in even in
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  some cases, their mothers or aunts may, may, may not have the
• 6:26
  levels of hijab that they would like.
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  So I think a good place to start is at least from what what I
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  would like to start. I said, I know I told you I
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  wanted to start somewhere different to you.
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  OK, Can I do that? Go for it.
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  I think the good place to start is do men have the right to talk
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  about hijab? Do we have the right to share
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  our thoughts, our opinions? Can we tell a sister your hijab
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  is not good enough or your hijab is very good?
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  Like, is that like you know? Is it disrespectful from a
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  sister's perspective? How do we come across?
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  Yeah, definitely. I think this question always
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  comes up. You know, people say men have no
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  right to talk about hijab. It's something that's related to
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  women. They have no idea of the
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  struggles and the journey that women go through while wearing
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  hijab. If you would ask me, I would say
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  I I think it's actually beautiful when a man talks about
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  hijab. There's scholars in our
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  community that have given lectures about hijab and I found
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  it very nice, nice and beneficial to see that
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  perspective. But I would say if they do talk
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  about hijab, they approach it through a respectful and a, you
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  know, through understanding and be respectful in their in their
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  approach when talking about it. Because in all honesty men like
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  you said brother Ahmed, they don't know the struggles that
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  women go through. They don't know exactly what
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  women go through the journey, the the different challenges.
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  So sometimes when someone passes judgment about hijab of a woman,
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  you know through a from a male perspective, us women are
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  thinking you have no idea what we're going through.
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  But at the same time, talking about hijab, I think men should.
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  I think it's very important for men to talk about hijab as well.
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  But when they do talk about hijab, let them not forget that
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  hijab is also for men. And sometimes I feel like when
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  men talk about hijab, it's always through the aspect of
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  women's hijab, women's hijab, women's hijab, but they could
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  incorporate the male hijab within that.
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  So I think it's how they approach it.
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  If someone's approaching it for a respectful, for a respectful
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  way, then that's there's no problem with it.
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  OK, let's talk about this approach.
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  Yeah. Let's say, for example, I'm, I'm
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  a father. I have two girls.
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  They'll be grown up in the very in the coming years and they'll
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  be, you know, passing the age of Baloo, the maturity and things
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  like this and where hijab does become compulsory on them.
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  For example, now how do I as a father speak to my daughters,
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  for example, when it comes to hijab or how do I speak to
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  someone from a system in the community from hijab?
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  Is there a difference as a father, that conversation that
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  you have with your daughters compared to someone else?
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  Like I think with your daughters or with your own woman folk, we
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  can say you can have very comfortable conversation.
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  Yeah. But I think you have to be
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  careful when you are speaking to those who are not related to
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  you. Yeah.
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  Is that what the danger is? Yeah, definitely.
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  I think relationship is also plays a huge factor of how you
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  speak about hijab or how you approach hijab.
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  You know someone can tell their daughter or your hair showing
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  and they may not find it offensive you know, but then
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  telling a stranger they'll be like well it's nothing to do
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  with you. So I think.
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  So they wouldn't see as like something advisory, they'll see
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  as you're judging me. Yeah, exactly.
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  So they'll perceive in a completely different way.
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  Interesting due to relationship, I think relationship has a huge
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  impact and as to how someone can approach someone with hijab.
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  And that's why, by the way, sometimes mothers even will come
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  to me and say my daughter's struggling with hijab.
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  Can you speak to her? Because they understand that
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  relationship does play a factor. And sometimes for a teenager
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  that doesn't don't want to wear hijab, they're not going to
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  listen that teenage age, they're not going to listen to their
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  parents. So they know that bringing
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  someone external, they're probably going to listen to them
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  more. But so relationship does play a
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  factor. And also I think as a parent we
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  need to recognize that it's our responsibility that these
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  children will be questioned about, did we teach them about
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  hijab on the day judgement. So it's also that element of
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  responsibility. So I think there's a huge
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  emphasis on educating them and guiding them and teaching them.
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  So you know, you mentioned about the way you talk to someone
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  else. I don't think this is my
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  personal opinion, but I don't think it's my right or I don't
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  think I can advise or pass a judgement on anyone who's
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  outside of my household, who's a female, like a non Madam Lady.
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  I don't think I can go to her and tell her give.
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  You a relaxed scenario? Yeah, we're inviting a sister on
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  to. OK, that's different.
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  I tell you why. I tell you why.
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  Because when you're representing an Islamic organization, you
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  have a set of guidelines and whatnot You can share and say
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  this is the policy and obviously you're you're, you're you're in,
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  you're in metaphorically speaking, you're in a place of
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  knowledge, you're sharing knowledge and obviously you're
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  representing the athletes of Islam.
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  When the Holy Quran talks about hijab, you know, in the in not
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  in a literal sense of the headscarf, but in the
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  theoretical sense of the concept of modesty, be it visual or
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  social. The Holy Prophet was told, you
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  know, in the site of Kumba, Banata Korman, he was told
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  firstly go to your women in your household.
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  So I think as men it's not like a case of yeah, we need to
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  instruct our women this and that.
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  Like it's, you know, it doesn't work like that.
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  And I don't think I'm in a position to go to a a assist
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  outside of my family. Yeah, if you.
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  Knew. If you knew a woman observed
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  great hijab and accidentally her hair was showing, would you tell
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  her? If you know that she she usually
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  doesn't show her hair, would you tell her or would that be a
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  difficult? Scenario it would be very.
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  Difficult. That would be so.
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  Awkward. Yeah, it would be very
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  difficult. I just.
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  Want to see that? I would be very difficult.
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  It'd be very very difficult because how do you even you have
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  to look at her in her eye and. Tell me looking in the first
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  place. That's what I'm saying, like
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  it's very very awkward scenario. You just leave it.
• 11:38
  No, I think I'd probably like signal.
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  Or tell someone to tell. Her.
• 11:42
  Yeah, I'd probably tell someone to tell her.
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  I've been in that situation before and I told my wife, Can
• 11:46
  you do you know what I mean? I was with, I was with a friend
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  in Arbayin a couple of few years ago and like he told, I remember
• 11:56
  he told a sister like cover your hair and I don't know why.
• 12:00
  That made me feel awkward. So I asked him and he said,
• 12:03
  look, we are in Arbayin and there's people here and someone
• 12:05
  needs to tell her otherwise everyone's going to see.
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  I get that. But I think it's part of the
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  bigger conversation, which is about whether men have the right
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  to talk about it. You know, a lot of the time we
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  as men, we won't understand the struggle.
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  You know, whether it comes to job interviews, whether it comes
• 12:21
  to when it comes to getting married, like there's so many
• 12:23
  facets of life which we will never experience because there's
• 12:27
  an extra barrier between what we experience.
• 12:30
  You know, for us, it's like I apply for a job.
• 12:32
  Yeah, it's it's Ahmed, is it good enough to get the job?
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  But for example, if Sister Zahara applies for a job, it's a
• 12:39
  case of, you know, you have to. Someone will consider how you
• 12:43
  look, customer service and is she presentable to a Western
• 12:47
  society and so on and so forth. That's not really something we
• 12:50
  will understand and there's. A lot of struggles.
• 12:53
  Yeah, yeah. Can I share some of the comments
• 12:55
  that people have and I think will help us navigate the
• 12:58
  discussion today. So I'll I'll start with this
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  one. A common struggle for women who
• 13:05
  wear hijab and a modest man that is finding a spouse, which is an
• 13:09
  interesting one and I think I'm going to come to that as well.
• 13:12
  Wearing hijab part time or full time.
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  You cannot be a part time hijab, a full time hijabi.
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  You have to cover full time for the sake of Allah.
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  The notion that hijabi should be perfect and cannot make
• 13:24
  mistakes, Please know they are normal people trying to stay
• 13:29
  with the hijab trends, but they jeopardize modesty, being
• 13:33
  surrounded by people who don't. So it's like a.
• 13:35
  Variety, I need to follow you on this.
• 13:37
  There's a lot of comments. I'm missing out anyway, yeah,
• 13:40
  yeah. But it shows you, like everyone
• 13:42
  has a different opinion when it comes to hijab.
• 13:43
  Like, I don't even know where to begin.
• 13:45
  Like, we know what our last commands are.
• 13:46
  We know what he tells us to do, and hijab for the men as well.
• 13:50
  Maybe we possibly get into that a bit later on the discussion,
• 13:52
  but where do we begin with hijab?
• 13:54
  Because someone may be watching out this podcast, and I don't
• 13:58
  want to say a lot of our sister audience, but a lot of our
• 14:02
  audience from the sisters, I don't think they have understood
• 14:05
  what hijab truly is. And there was a discussion once
• 14:08
  we had where someone was like, OK, I wear the hijab, I feel
• 14:11
  like God is telling me to wear it, but why does he want me to
• 14:14
  wear it? And I said something, I don't
• 14:17
  know if it was the right thing. I was like if you haven't fully
• 14:19
  understood hijab, I don't think you have fully understood Allah
• 14:24
  that didn't come out right to the receiving end.
• 14:27
  But then I related it is the same thing that can apply to
• 14:29
  Salah. Satan can apply to Somi or
• 14:31
  fasting and obligatory act, Obligatory act if we are Muslim,
• 14:35
  it's easy to say. You know Islam doesn't mean
• 14:37
  Islam is a peaceful religion but some doesn't mean peace, it
• 14:39
  means submission. You submit to Allah Subhan
• 14:42
  Allah, whether we agree with the with the law, with with with the
• 14:45
  rulings of Allah and Akam of Allah ultimately as a Muslim
• 14:48
  where do we begin? Where did we start as a sister
• 14:50
  who struggles? Yeah, as who struggles, so
• 14:52
  understanding, Yeah, I think with anything else like you say.
• 14:56
  Because they see as cultural. Yeah.
• 14:58
  They see as the men are telling us to do it and then they have
• 15:01
  people attacking hijab and Western media and sometimes
• 15:04
  governments forcing hijab. It's a huge it's the messing
• 15:08
  their brain. Yeah, The thing is, the concept
• 15:10
  of hijab is there is suddenly an obsession surrounding it.
• 15:14
  And I think not only that, there is a lot of definitions as to
• 15:17
  what the hijab is. So everyone has defined it in
• 15:20
  its own way and it could be very confusing for someone
• 15:22
  approaching hijab because one person saying you can wear a
• 15:25
  turban, hijab, and it's just a claw of other person saying it's
• 15:27
  this other person saying that. Not only that, culturally hijab
• 15:31
  is manifested in different ways and this is not a bad thing.
• 15:34
  You know if you go to Malaysia, they're wearing hijab in a
• 15:36
  certain way, you go to Arafa wearing hijab in a certain way.
• 15:39
  So, and that isn't a bad thing either as long as the guidelines
• 15:42
  of hijab is, is is being respected.
• 15:44
  So there's so much surrounding it, it can get confusing as to
• 15:47
  what hijab is, what hijab isn't. And then for the sisters wearing
• 15:50
  it, the journeys are very complex as well.
• 15:53
  So I would say like any religious obligation I have, I
• 15:58
  would say it's the journey. So my understanding of hijab a
• 16:01
  few years back is different to now and it's the more that I
• 16:05
  understand hijab, the more that I love hijab.
• 16:08
  We know what the guidelines of hijab, I don't know if you want
• 16:10
  me to say, but what hijab is. We know that hijab isn't just a
• 16:13
  cloth on their head, it is the social hijab.
• 16:15
  It's the the way that I when I walked in I talked to you.
• 16:18
  The way that I dress or that the way that I socialise, the way
• 16:21
  that everything is hijab. And I think it is going to be
• 16:27
  difficult. And just like any religious
• 16:28
  obligation, I don't know why people put so much emphasis on
• 16:32
  hijab as if you're not practicing it the right way,
• 16:34
  then don't do it at all. And that is one thing that
• 16:36
  really, that really, I don't understand.
• 16:38
  That's the one. Reason that if you don't put on
• 16:40
  property, just take it off take it.
• 16:41
  Off and And a lot of girls have ended up taking it off because
• 16:44
  of that specific comment, right? It's not right at all.
• 16:47
  Just like someone doesn't pray, he they try to pray but then
• 16:51
  some prayers, they miss it. You would never tell them stop
• 16:53
  praying at all and and just stop praying.
• 16:55
  If you're not going to pray your five prayers, stop praying.
• 16:57
  If you're not going to wake up for fair job, don't bother
• 16:59
  praying, medal up. No one says that because we
• 17:01
  understand that every journey is a struggle.
• 17:03
  There will be obstacles within that struggle and some days you
• 17:07
  may be stronger in in observing that religious obligation, other
• 17:11
  times you wouldn't. So definitely with hijab it's
• 17:14
  the same. You have to recognise that that
• 17:17
  hijab is a personal journey and some people are stronger and and
• 17:20
  more firm in that journey and others are not.
• 17:22
  It's about how do we support them, how do we help them, how
• 17:26
  do we encourage them rather than discourage.
• 17:29
  And I really think that there is a very negative perception when
• 17:33
  it comes to hijab and that if we see a system, not observing it,
• 17:36
  we just attack and we just think that she should just take it off
• 17:39
  when it's not the case. Allah recognises it's a journey,
• 17:42
  it's a struggle. And in all elements, it is jihad
• 17:45
  and neffs, and it's A and it will always be a battle.
• 17:49
  A battle in the sense that sometimes you'll be more
• 17:50
  victorious, sometimes you'll be weaker.
• 17:52
  But it is that battle. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:54
  Do you think that I mean someone also posted a question or like
• 17:57
  write a dilemma about holier than thou hijabis.
• 18:00
  Now obviously we we won't know what that is, but what I would
• 18:03
  assume it means is that the the sisters who don't wear hijab or
• 18:06
  who are struggling with hijab, look at sisters who might for
• 18:10
  example, wear perfect hijab, you know in the visual sense, but
• 18:14
  are acting holier than thou. You know they are judging.
• 18:18
  Maybe they're doing things like Reba, back buying and gossiping
• 18:22
  and this and that which we hear stories like that, but then they
• 18:24
  tell others all look at her hijab and maybe you know about
• 18:28
  someone's looks or whatever. Do you firstly feel like that's
• 18:32
  something which happens? And of course it can go either
• 18:35
  way. There's never a case.
• 18:37
  In my opinion. The majority of sisters who wear
• 18:40
  hijab will most likely be practicing or whatnot.
• 18:43
  But the point being is you will never get like a full, like no
• 18:50
  group of sisters will be exactly the same as each other
• 18:53
  basically. But do you feel like that is a
• 18:55
  culture that exists, especially on the ladies side?
• 18:59
  And yeah, have you ever had to address that?
• 19:01
  Definitely, yeah, definitely. You see these judgements all the
• 19:03
  time and like I said hijab just because someone's wearing a
• 19:06
  physical perfect hijab, sometimes the other elements of
• 19:09
  their hijab could be could be worse and and the same to go
• 19:12
  with someone that's not wearing hijab, they may feel like
• 19:16
  because of this judgement they're not wearing, they're not
• 19:18
  going to take that step to a hijab.
• 19:20
  I think judgement, the way that you treat others, that's why
• 19:23
  there's so much emphasis on nakhlaq when it comes to the
• 19:26
  religion of Islam. The way that you treat others,
• 19:28
  the way you speak to each each others, their stories as well of
• 19:31
  the imams of the way they approach even those that they
• 19:34
  see as acting out a religious, a religious act in an incorrect
• 19:39
  way. There's a way you approach them
• 19:41
  and definitely there is judgement.
• 19:42
  And I've seen judgement happen. You know and look what she's
• 19:44
  wearing. Why is she wearing that and this
• 19:46
  and that and and I always say this this is what discourages
• 19:49
  sisters from actually coming towards the religion and and and
• 19:54
  you know, I got a comment recently, a message from
• 19:56
  Instagram as well from a sister that said that she feels like
• 19:59
  she can't go to the mosque because of previous sins.
• 20:01
  And it was Subhan Allah who was on the 19th.
• 20:04
  And I said, and I said to her, the door of Allah, The
• 20:07
  Apprentice of Allah is always open.
• 20:08
  So the mosque of Allah will always be open.
• 20:10
  Who are we to judge? Who can?
• 20:12
  Come back and enter that door and who cannot?
• 20:15
  So even when it comes to someone that struggles with hijab, you
• 20:19
  know, I think judgement could really destroy someone's future.
• 20:21
  And we don't even realise that you can destroy someone's life
• 20:24
  with the way you perceive them, the way you talk about them that
• 20:27
  you do about them. So it happens both ways.
• 20:29
  Definitely happens both ways from the sisters that don't wear
• 20:31
  hijab, judging sisters that wear hijab and say you know, they
• 20:35
  think that they're wholly and sometimes that's not the case
• 20:38
  and they're just judging and the same side this is, is our
• 20:41
  wearing hijab by judging. So I think when it comes to
• 20:44
  hijab, This is why I say to myself I focus on myself my my
• 20:47
  own journey, that's it. Whatever we talk about hijab, we
• 20:51
  talk about the beauty of hijab and our own experience because
• 20:53
  we is hijab is very beautiful. There is a lot of benefits to
• 20:56
  it. I found it myself in my own
• 20:58
  life. I have found the hijab to be
• 20:59
  very, very beautiful. It's helped me so much in my
• 21:02
  journey. So I just focus on myself and I
• 21:05
  think that's the best thing. Do you think your upbringing
• 21:07
  helped in that and falling in love with hijab?
• 21:11
  Yeah, I do think that for firstly I think people that
• 21:15
  don't know my family dynamic, I have 10 sisters as it is, so.
• 21:18
  I have. Ten sisters, nine sisters.
• 21:21
  So we're 10 girls. Yeah.
• 21:23
  So that alone was a support system.
• 21:26
  So for someone that's wearing hijab, I wanted to.
• 21:28
  I wore hijab when I was 5. Imagine the number of hijab pins
• 21:31
  in the house. Yeah, I believe.
• 21:34
  You found that everyone There's always a hijab, always a rabbi,
• 21:37
  always a hijab pin. But having that support system
• 21:40
  #1 is I want to do a hijab at 5:00 and I did wear hijab at
• 21:44
  5:00. I have pictures in nursery and
• 21:46
  reception in school classroom photographs.
• 21:49
  Wearing hijab obviously wasn't properly in the hair sharing,
• 21:51
  but I wore that because I had that example and I and I wanted
• 21:55
  to wear it because I saw the girls before me wearing it in
• 21:57
  terms of my sisters. So that also I also come from a
• 22:00
  very conservative family. I mean my mum did didn't show
• 22:03
  her face for I think just in the recent years she wore full
• 22:07
  bushia. So for that as well seeing your
• 22:09
  mother and wearing bushy abaya it does play play a role.
• 22:15
  So definitely it is a is a starting point.
• 22:17
  But I just also want to say there are sisters that have also
• 22:20
  grown up in a religious household and have gone found
• 22:23
  the opposite way. They found that too much
• 22:25
  pressure, too much, too much pressure I would say has made
• 22:29
  them go the others way and rebel and want to experience waiters
• 22:32
  to be kind of free. So I say it's like water.
• 22:36
  You wanna give someone enough water to to quench their first,
• 22:39
  but you don't wanna drown them because if a child, you give
• 22:42
  them the education, you give them the support, you give them
• 22:44
  the guidance to quench their first to make sure they hold on
• 22:47
  to religion, but not too much that.
• 22:49
  They would be an example of a balance.
• 22:50
  So I think that's what you trying to say.
• 22:51
  You have to balance the subject. Definitely.
• 22:53
  I it's by balance. And you say what is the balance
• 22:56
  And I would say this, each child is different and I've realised
• 22:59
  that with having so many siblings and I I call you know,
• 23:03
  my father, God bless. So I used to talk about
• 23:05
  intentional parenting, that when you parent your child, you
• 23:09
  intentionally parent them according to their abilities
• 23:12
  because each child needs different.
• 23:13
  There's some people that were being firm with them is perfect,
• 23:17
  you know it works for them. Other children, you be firm with
• 23:20
  them, they'll go completely the opposite way, they will rebel.
• 23:22
  So it's what is this perfect balance.
• 23:24
  I think understanding and getting know this is what I do
• 23:27
  with my own children, getting to know that child, Who is that
• 23:30
  child? What is, what is their tipping
• 23:32
  point? What is this balance?
• 23:33
  Once you understand your child, you'll be able to give that
• 23:36
  great balance because there's girls that have worn beautiful
• 23:38
  hijab at 910-1112, only teenagers to completely take off
• 23:42
  and they've come from very good backgrounds.
• 23:45
  So it's about that perfect balance and understanding the
• 23:48
  individual child and then applying it to that.
• 23:51
  How do you feel about the culture of of disassociation
• 23:55
  from hijab today in in media and in all of that sort of stuff.
• 23:59
  So obviously looking at Netflix and I don't know if you saw a
• 24:03
  few weeks ago that thing about my Mahdi thing on Netflix, I'm
• 24:06
  sure everyone saw, which is crazy, but just generally the
• 24:10
  the, the, the movement in in mainstream media, in pop culture
• 24:14
  to move sisters away from modesty.
• 24:17
  So you know that the way in which women feel that they need
• 24:21
  to be valued in today's day and age might be by the number of
• 24:23
  followers, might be by the attention they get online, might
• 24:26
  be by by how much money they make or how they make that
• 24:29
  money. And at the same time as well the
• 24:32
  the influencer scene which I think we've we've we've been
• 24:35
  aware of for the last 10 years or so.
• 24:38
  The Youtubers, the makeup artists, the hijabi like
• 24:41
  tutorial ladies and all of that who have gradually over a period
• 24:45
  of time taking their hijab off. And who have been a bad example
• 24:50
  to those sisters who are wearing hijab and who have been
• 24:53
  following with pure and good intentions from a younger age.
• 24:55
  These sisters who are on YouTube or on Instagram and who are
• 24:58
  learning about them and enjoying their their content and their
• 25:01
  culture and whatnot, but over a period of years have been, you
• 25:04
  know, have witnessed someone taking their hijab off and have
• 25:07
  subconsciously maybe followed that journey.
• 25:11
  I find that really deceiving and manipulative to be really honest
• 25:14
  with you. I wanted to understand what you
• 25:17
  felt about that because obviously you've done a lot of
• 25:19
  the influencer work within the community and maybe offering the
• 25:23
  counter narrative on how to be a hijabi influencer and whether
• 25:27
  that, even if that is contradictory, can someone be a
• 25:30
  hijabi influencer if it's about being modest and whatnot?
• 25:33
  Stephanie, yeah, I'm so glad you brought this topic up because I
• 25:36
  think it's the topic we need to talk about.
• 25:37
  It's right now. It's like the elephant in the
• 25:39
  room. It's right in front of us, but
• 25:41
  we don't talk about it. I think the commercialization of
• 25:45
  the hijab is something we don't talk about.
• 25:46
  The sexualization of the hijab is something we don't talk about
• 25:49
  how every brand now has suddenly incorporated the hijab into
• 25:53
  their clothing line. You know and this Ramadan every
• 25:57
  every, every brand I look at had have a line for Ramadan.
• 26:00
  Ted Baker have a whole line for hijab.
• 26:02
  So that commercialization of hijab and transforming the hijab
• 26:06
  into a fashion statement rather than essence, huh?
• 26:09
  That's the thing we discussed that and we said is it good or
• 26:11
  not because it is catering towards hijab.
• 26:15
  Because back in the day we didn't have clothing that were
• 26:17
  hijab. So it is a good thing in a
• 26:19
  sense. But you have to understand the
• 26:20
  motives behind these organisations.
• 26:22
  It isn't to isn't to yeah it's for profit.
• 26:25
  Profit means only only same organization.
• 26:28
  There's some organisations that have actually attacked the hijab
• 26:31
  and attacked the burka and attacked the essence of the
• 26:33
  religion are now promoting Ramadan and promoting hijab.
• 26:36
  So it is good to it to it to a certain extent.
• 26:39
  But we have to recognise that it's it's not done for the
• 26:42
  benefit of of Islam or Muslims or sisters.
• 26:44
  It's done done for the benefit of the of of just profit, profit
• 26:48
  basically. So another thing, you talk about
• 26:51
  social media. This is something that I feel
• 26:52
  like we need to talk about and unfortunately we don't because
• 26:56
  many people find it offensive to talk about it and judge mental.
• 27:00
  So let's talk about it. Like you said, hijab has been
• 27:03
  now transformed into the essence of what hijab is, which is a
• 27:06
  religious commandment from Allah, from from modesty, you
• 27:10
  know, modesty, morality to a fashion statement.
• 27:13
  And I can completely say this and I think the more the years
• 27:15
  go on the more I can say that is how it is.
• 27:18
  You know, I have sisters that have come to me through the
• 27:22
  events that I've done. And so we were turban, hijab and
• 27:24
  you know, we want to stop wearing it.
• 27:26
  I said, why do you worry that they've been influenced by
• 27:28
  social media and the people that end up wearing the turban, hijab
• 27:31
  now, I can guarantee you it is because of social media, full
• 27:34
  stop, 100%. That's where it started, that's
• 27:37
  where it's promoted and that's where the idea has come from
• 27:40
  that. So then once again, we are kind
• 27:42
  of conforming the hijab to societal means and that's the
• 27:45
  whole point of the hijab. The hijab is to break free from
• 27:48
  societal expectations of the beauty standards of woman.
• 27:51
  But we've then transformed now the hijab back to trying to
• 27:54
  conform to beauty standards. Another thing is now is
• 27:58
  especially with social media, I think it's very very dangerous
• 28:01
  to the self esteem of woman. It's very dangerous to woman in
• 28:04
  general especially now with the promotion of of dermophilers
• 28:07
  fillers injections Cos Cos mental cosmetic cosmetic
• 28:13
  surgeries. I know sisters that have once
• 28:16
  have never never doubted anything in their facial
• 28:20
  features they have they were never self-conscious of their
• 28:22
  nose, their lips, their cheeks, anything.
• 28:24
  But now due to social medias are now getting injections, getting
• 28:27
  lip fillers, getting cheek fillers, getting nose surgeries
• 28:30
  because of this societal expectations.
• 28:32
  And I think that's the whole point of hijab is to save us
• 28:34
  from this, these beauty standards is to save us from
• 28:38
  these going down this rabbit hole of never being satisfied
• 28:41
  with the way we look. And woman, you know, these
• 28:43
  people pray and and they harp on us insecurities of woman, woman
• 28:48
  in essence I think every woman wants to appear attractive or
• 28:51
  wants to be beautiful. This is what a woman want to do.
• 28:54
  So I think the hijab then protects us from that element
• 28:58
  not going down this, this, this rabbit hole of of of this
• 29:01
  perfect standard. But this is exactly what was
• 29:04
  being done in this day and age. And the hijab is being used as a
• 29:07
  tool to hijab tutorials, make up tutorials.
• 29:11
  And I haven't talked about, you know, me being on social media.
• 29:13
  This is why I'm on social media. You know, sometimes I'm like,
• 29:16
  why do I want my photos out there, my videos out there?
• 29:19
  But when I see that your own girls as young as nine are
• 29:22
  getting affected by social media that, you know, I've had girls
• 29:25
  as 9 talking about their facial features, talking about, oh, my
• 29:29
  nose is big. You know, I've done a workshop
• 29:30
  for young girls and they talk about these things.
• 29:33
  Yes, at nine years old, believe it or not, they're unhappy with
• 29:36
  the way they look because of social media.
• 29:38
  And that's why I said try to delay social media for your kids
• 29:40
  as much as possible because it affects them.
• 29:43
  So when you see that we have to do it, we have to counteract
• 29:46
  that image of woman. You know, I can easily go online
• 29:49
  and make up and hair and and not here hijab, but with clothing
• 29:54
  and get so many views and do silly things and get so many
• 29:56
  views. But is that the right thing?
• 29:58
  And it's so rare, but it's what's needed in us, in our
• 30:01
  society, you say. The main struggle is beauty.
• 30:05
  Poor woman. I think a big factor when.
• 30:07
  It comes to a job as in in aesthetic insecurities.
• 30:09
  Is that what you mean? Yeah.
• 30:10
  I think a big factor is even the woman that appeared to not care
• 30:13
  about their parents, and you may think they don't care.
• 30:16
  It is a big factor. It is the essence of women is,
• 30:19
  yeah, women want to appear attractive.
• 30:21
  And I think men, there's there's an important part to play here
• 30:24
  and men have a big part to play play here in terms of reassuring
• 30:28
  your women, whether it's your wife, your mother, your sister,
• 30:30
  your daughter, whatever it is that you are beautiful and I
• 30:33
  love you for how you are and who you are and being like not being
• 30:37
  cheesy about it, but just reminding her that I love you
• 30:40
  and you look beautiful and you you're amazing.
• 30:42
  And I don't think you need the the cosmetics and I don't think
• 30:45
  you need this. You look good as you are.
• 30:47
  I love when you wear this. Like probably the woman in my
• 30:50
  family gets sick of me. But I like, I like tell them,
• 30:53
  yeah, I give my opinion. Like, yeah, I like when you wear
• 30:55
  like this and all like that, because I think.
• 30:57
  Some my dad used to do, by the way.
• 30:58
  Yeah, it's enjoying. When I got my to my husband, I
• 31:00
  think it came came in once and my dad said the same thing.
• 31:04
  I walked in. He's like, it's a heart.
• 31:05
  This is the most beautiful you've ever I saw.
• 31:07
  I looked like complete mess, but he still said that my husband
• 31:10
  was like, is that is that normal?
• 31:11
  Like, but that's how it is. You're right.
• 31:13
  Because if you feel their cup, if you feel their cup, they're
• 31:16
  not going, they're. Not going to go elsewhere.
• 31:17
  Yeah, they're not going to want to have that validation from
• 31:20
  someone else. And look, to be honest, at the
• 31:22
  end of the day, as men we innately crave beauty.
• 31:26
  OK, when we get married, or when we even with our own daughters
• 31:30
  and whatnot, we want them to look beautiful.
• 31:32
  We want them to act beautifully. But that that can be done in
• 31:35
  more ways than like you said, what societal standards of
• 31:37
  beauty are. It's it comes down to
• 31:39
  understanding how we measure. What is the metric for beauty.
• 31:44
  You know the beauty comes from within.
• 31:46
  At the beginning this this podcast we talked about said of
• 31:49
  Artem and Saha and and all of the way she she personified
• 31:54
  beauty. Beauty for her was compassion.
• 31:55
  It was prank for her neighbours before herself.
• 31:58
  It was you know feeding the the poor before, before feeding
• 32:01
  herself. You know, these are things which
• 32:03
  we have to, you know, remind society that the true beauty is
• 32:09
  found within. It's found through what you do,
• 32:11
  not what you look like and and so on and so forth.
• 32:13
  But of course the element of physical beauty comes comes into
• 32:16
  it. You know, I think there are ways
• 32:18
  to look good while keeping hijab friendly, if that makes sense,
• 32:22
  of course. Beauty isn't a bad thing in in
• 32:24
  in essence it isn't. You know Allah loves beauty and
• 32:27
  Allah, you know he created all things beautiful and it Beauty
• 32:31
  is not a bad thing. But when we begin to conform and
• 32:35
  compromise our religious duties and our religious obligations to
• 32:38
  kind of fit into the societal expectations, I think that's
• 32:42
  when that's when it crosses the line and that's when we are
• 32:45
  going down a very dangerous. Path.
• 32:46
  Can I ask you a question? So if you don't mind, let's say
• 32:49
  I am a man whose sister's mothers, maybe mothers is
• 32:57
  probably a bit rare, but even in case mothers, wives or even
• 33:01
  daughters are creeping out of hijab.
• 33:05
  All right, so let's say I'm witnessing the creeping of hijab
• 33:08
  over a five year period. So for example from perfect
• 33:11
  Abhay and hijab keeping backwards, you know the hairline
• 33:15
  and then maybe turban or whatever it is, whatever the the
• 33:18
  like chronology is. The TikTok Hijab.
• 33:22
  Someone mentioned it here. So what?
• 33:25
  We have to be careful saying cancel.
• 33:27
  There's there's even a category on TikTok called TikTok.
• 33:29
  Really. But what?
• 33:30
  What would you advise? Hijab is worse than anything
• 33:32
  else. Oh yeah.
• 33:34
  No. But honestly now we've seen
• 33:36
  there's there's a tick tock pages where I didn't want to say
• 33:40
  because it's really, really bad. But yeah, yeah, it's it's gone
• 33:44
  down a very, very, yeah. No, it can be a bit twisted.
• 33:46
  Dancing while wearing. The Yeah, it can be really
• 33:48
  twisted it. Can it's really?
• 33:50
  What would you say to a guy specifically?
• 33:53
  Yeah, or even a sister. But when when there are people
• 33:57
  who are listening right now who are struggling with hijab, they
• 33:59
  don't see the point in wearing it.
• 34:00
  They feel like hypocrites because they put it on every day
• 34:03
  and they know that they should be putting it on for God.
• 34:05
  But then they miss, like you said Fajr Al Bahad or Assad
• 34:07
  Mahal Besha. And there's no guilt or, you
• 34:11
  know, they're like, what's the point of me wearing it if I'm
• 34:13
  it's it's hypocritical. What would you say to people who
• 34:16
  are in that position? Definitely.
• 34:18
  I think first of all, to the people that are supporting or
• 34:22
  are seeing female relatives going about through that, it's
• 34:25
  first of all or even the woman themselves.
• 34:27
  And and I've dealt with this so many times, you know, I've come
• 34:29
  across this scenario so many times where people have come to
• 34:32
  me and said a family member has removed their hijab or
• 34:35
  struggling with hijab. And I've had the girls come up
• 34:37
  to me themselves saying we're struggling, you know, we're
• 34:39
  struggling. We say we want to put it on, but
• 34:41
  then summer comes and and we go to school and go to college and
• 34:44
  suddenly coming back. So this festival is to recognize
• 34:47
  this happens all the time. You're not alone.
• 34:50
  And I think that's very, very important to recognize that
• 34:52
  they're not alone. You know, there's so many other
• 34:54
  people that have struggled before them and will struggle
• 34:56
  after them and are struggling currently.
• 34:58
  Number two I would say is to identify what the struggles are
• 35:02
  because everyone is different. Some people it's peer pressure,
• 35:05
  some people it's their surroundings.
• 35:07
  When everyone is dressed a certain way and they're the odd
• 35:09
  one out, that can be very, very difficult.
• 35:11
  Some of them is. And I'm so sad to say this, but
• 35:14
  it is kind of craving attention because I've come across as
• 35:19
  themselves as they need that validation.
• 35:21
  Some women need that validation and when everyone else around
• 35:23
  them, all the other women are getting the praise and their
• 35:25
  validation. And just recently I came across
• 35:27
  this sister that it was in high school and the same thing, all
• 35:30
  her friends are getting praise for their parents and it's that
• 35:33
  other people just they've just stopped believing.
• 35:35
  They've stopped believing. Especially now that society is
• 35:37
  moving towards a secular society, the religious
• 35:39
  traditions are being neglected and then they've stopped
• 35:42
  believing. I don't believe this is this is
• 35:45
  a commandment from God and I don't, I don't want to wear it.
• 35:48
  So I think #2 is to identify what is the reasons why that
• 35:52
  that sister or why you are struggling with hijab.
• 35:54
  Once you identify the the problem you'll be able to find
• 35:58
  or the 'cause, you will be able to find the solution.
• 36:00
  So identifying what it is and then helping them and supporting
• 36:03
  them through that. Many times, if it is peer
• 36:05
  pressure, if it is the surroundings, and I've seen this
• 36:09
  happen before, once they remove themselves from those
• 36:11
  surroundings, they just find it easier.
• 36:13
  There's people in the workplace. We're in a very, very difficult
• 36:16
  workplace sisters, and they feel like I need to dress this way to
• 36:19
  fit in. I need to dress this way to just
• 36:21
  be respected within the workplace.
• 36:22
  The minute they remove themselves from that workplace,
• 36:25
  they find it so much easier to wear the hijab.
• 36:26
  There's people in the high school that struggle a lot and
• 36:29
  you know even you know where the hijab will probably take it off
• 36:33
  and put it in their bag and go to school.
• 36:34
  Once they leave high school or college, they find it easier
• 36:37
  because that expectations and that peer pressure is no longer
• 36:39
  there. So #2 is identifying what it is
• 36:42
  and #3 always support, support, be that support for them, be
• 36:46
  that support system for them and help them.
• 36:48
  It's very difficult. But once you find out what the
• 36:50
  problem is, what the cause is, you'll be able to support them
• 36:53
  more because you know what's affecting them and why they are
• 36:56
  struggling in that in that essence.
• 36:57
  But and #3, you know, we're all going through this journey, so
• 37:00
  you have to recognize never, ever and I've one emphasizes
• 37:03
  several times, never ever tell someone you're hypocritical
• 37:06
  because you're wearing a bit of hijab and not the other.
• 37:09
  It they will end up, you know that you will do no good by
• 37:12
  saying that you'll push them all further away from the religious,
• 37:16
  religious act. So yeah, you have to just speed
• 37:20
  that support system for them. And out.
• 37:22
  Well, their friends were all behind it.
• 37:24
  And then I say that's why. Because when you go look at
• 37:26
  their friend circle, they all took off one by one.
• 37:29
  Yeah, it was like a domino. So you got like 5 packs of
• 37:32
  dominoes on the table 1234. So I'm not trying to make fun
• 37:35
  out of it. Yeah.
• 37:36
  But the reality is you have to know who you're surrounding
• 37:39
  yourself with. Yeah.
• 37:40
  And Ahmed, we always talk about you are the representation of
• 37:43
  the five most average of the five people.
• 37:46
  We spend the most time with. So if you're spending your time
• 37:48
  with someone who only thinks about, for example, I want
• 37:50
  validation from people or I want to look in a specific way and
• 37:54
  that's going to come and affect your brain, your mindset, the
• 37:57
  way you see life, the way you understand hijab.
• 38:00
  Probably your friends are the worst influence because you can
• 38:03
  have the best parents. And sometimes we see this like
• 38:07
  you have the best mother, the best father, and they have the
• 38:10
  best Akhlaq of delivering Islam to their children.
• 38:13
  But then they just change. And that only happens at a high
• 38:16
  school college. It's because of their
• 38:18
  surroundings. It's because of their
• 38:19
  surroundings. And the one other thing to
• 38:21
  mention is that now we talk about surroundings but now we
• 38:25
  have the surrounding of social media.
• 38:26
  So sometimes even when someone doesn't go out, you know, I
• 38:29
  always tell people, look at what who you follow on social media,
• 38:32
  look at the videos or watching, look at who you.
• 38:33
  Follow the. Influence from follow up because
• 38:38
  that does have an impact. And before we only focus or we
• 38:40
  only said that the influence can come when you literally go
• 38:43
  outside and interact with people and and socialise with people.
• 38:46
  But now the influence has entered our home and even within
• 38:49
  our phones, people are getting influenced in many different
• 38:51
  ways. You know and I say this even for
• 38:52
  myself. You know recently I was started
• 38:55
  following people that eat that started to that are eating
• 38:58
  healthy food and kind of healthy living and that talked about the
• 39:03
  the negative aspects of processed food and and and fast
• 39:06
  food. And that's really a kind of
• 39:08
  influenced me and changed the way that my eating habits now I
• 39:11
  don't like eating takeout and I'd rather make stuff from fresh
• 39:14
  and have started to incorporate fresh ingredients.
• 39:16
  So now social media does have a Is social media is influenced,
• 39:21
  is influenced. For like a good five years had
• 39:25
  Jammu used to come to the office with his chicken and rice and Oh
• 39:28
  yes, and microwaves food every day.
• 39:32
  So I'm just thinking, and I used to ask him, like, how do you do?
• 39:34
  He goes, bro, you have to wake up in the morning and make
• 39:37
  yourself the meal for the like, 'cause he went, obviously mush
• 39:39
  online. He had that that phase where he
• 39:41
  influenced all of us. Yeah, and it did.
• 39:45
  Do you see how it manifested into the his weight loss And it
• 39:48
  does have a huge impact on that period was dedication.
• 39:51
  He's a buff guy. And do you know what?
• 39:53
  Look, let's be real. I wanted to also add something
• 39:55
  about cultural influence as well, because we talked about
• 39:57
  our social influence, social media.
• 40:00
  But culture also plays a part. So I don't want to say that
• 40:03
  there are communities, there are communities that I'm going to
• 40:05
  say there are communities which have better hijab than others.
• 40:08
  The Arab communities always have more, more strict hijab
• 40:13
  culturally then for example Khojar communities or Pakistani
• 40:16
  communities. It's just a matter of fact,
• 40:18
  yeah. So for example, you might have
• 40:20
  certain girls who will wear leggings and stuff like that and
• 40:24
  they'll be OK to wear that to mosque for example.
• 40:27
  But then in Iraqi community, for argument's sake or maybe not to
• 40:30
  mosque but to an event or whatever, you know, a community
• 40:33
  event, but to like in in the Iraqi community, you'll see that
• 40:36
  less often the the, the, the hijab issues are different.
• 40:43
  OK, sometimes it might be more of a social hijab issue and and
• 40:46
  whatnot, but at the same time, obviously you've got girls who
• 40:49
  are practising in one community who might not have the the right
• 40:51
  hijab physically and you might have the opposite in the other
• 40:55
  community as well. But do you feel like culture
• 40:57
  plays a role in that? Because I know that there are, I
• 41:01
  have friends, I'll be really real, like completely real.
• 41:03
  I have friends who are not or I have friends who are Asian who
• 41:08
  are conscious of maybe some of the hijab dilemmas that sisters
• 41:13
  who are subcontinental face and therefore will then look for a
• 41:17
  sister from another culture or another community purely because
• 41:20
  of hijab or vice versa. So do you think that plays a
• 41:24
  role in it? I would never want to say to any
• 41:27
  sisters from from either from my background or any others that
• 41:31
  your hijab is worse than someone else's.
• 41:33
  But I feel like the culture that we live in and obviously we come
• 41:35
  from a culture where hijab 102, hundred, 300 years ago in our
• 41:39
  countries was cultural. It was a dupatta as you call it.
• 41:42
  So elderly women who would go out and and semi cover their
• 41:46
  hair in the same way in this country until 60 years ago,
• 41:49
  English ladies, elderly English ladies would cover their hair
• 41:52
  when they go out. Yeah.
• 41:53
  So it's it's kind of a similar thing.
• 41:56
  What would you say to the sisters who are struggling from
• 41:58
  a cultural perspective? So let's say they want to wear
• 42:01
  hijab, which they, you know, is the hijab that is expected of
• 42:05
  them, but culturally it's not not expected on them.
• 42:08
  You know, either their mum doesn't like what they're
• 42:11
  wearing or they say, no, wear something a bit looser or a bit
• 42:13
  tighter or a bit more. You know what I mean?
• 42:16
  Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah.
• 42:17
  Because that must be an issue. I don't know.
• 42:19
  That is an issue. I mean, there's some people go
• 42:21
  to the full extreme. Their parents don't even want
• 42:23
  them to wear the hijab because it's culturally not accepted.
• 42:26
  You have another extreme. I've had people from other
• 42:28
  cultures come to me and say, is that how you're young?
• 42:30
  Why do you always wear black? Whereas in our community, in our
• 42:33
  in our culture, it's normal like women always wear black abaya,
• 42:36
  black hijab, you go to behind you, everyone's wearing black.
• 42:38
  You go to Iraq, everyone's wearing a black.
• 42:40
  ABI, yeah, yeah, ABI, everyone wears that.
• 42:43
  So it's it's it's a norm. So culture definitely plays a
• 42:46
  role in the in the way that the the hijab is manifested.
• 42:50
  And I would say you know when it comes to hijab, it's the main
• 42:54
  thing is that the requirements of hijab are are met.
• 42:57
  And I always say this, it doesn't need to be an abaya
• 42:59
  child or a head abaya as long as it's met and that is that the
• 43:03
  hairs covered, the everything is covered except for the Oval of
• 43:06
  your face, the palms of your hands and that it is loose, it's
• 43:10
  not transparent and that there's no zenith, so like a lot of
• 43:13
  glitter and colours and and stuff like that.
• 43:15
  But then at the same time, you know, I've gone to Malaysia and
• 43:18
  there's people that wear beautiful hijab there, but it's
• 43:20
  not the black araya, it's not the black hijab, it's, you know,
• 43:22
  the colour, vibrant, vibrant colours.
• 43:24
  So it's about that. But culture does influence in
• 43:26
  the way people wear the hijab. But the problem is, is when you
• 43:30
  are getting discouraged to wear hijab due to the cultural
• 43:32
  expectations. And that does happen where
• 43:34
  people are saying, you know, why are you wearing this hijab and
• 43:37
  abaya? Because that's not what we we
• 43:39
  do. And that's where you find the
• 43:40
  problem. Because I've I've seen sisters
• 43:42
  that, you know, we talk about people that find it hard to wear
• 43:46
  the hijab, this and that find it hard kind of.
• 43:50
  I'd say there's because there's sisters or should I say they're
• 43:53
  sisters that find it hard to wear the hijab because people do
• 43:56
  not want them to wear the hijab. There is sisters that have
• 43:58
  emailed us that said, my dad said you are not wearing the
• 44:00
  hijab, that hijab is not coming in our home and there are Muslim
• 44:03
  households. Yeah.
• 44:05
  There's people saying that you will not get married if you put
• 44:08
  on the hijab. Men that get married to a woman
• 44:09
  say I wouldn't marry a woman, the hijab.
• 44:11
  So the fact is we need to recognise that this does happen,
• 44:15
  that, that and because of the cultural expectations that is
• 44:19
  present in our community and it's a huge struggle.
• 44:22
  But once again one needs to do what's right for them and it
• 44:25
  will. That's a struggle that I'll
• 44:27
  probably never be able to understand, but for the people
• 44:30
  that are going through that, you need to just be strong and just
• 44:33
  carry on. See, hijab is so important, I
• 44:35
  can't. If I had a friend who said to me
• 44:37
  I would like to find a sister who doesn't wear hijab, says
• 44:41
  Bro, you need to think twice. Not because one girl is better
• 44:45
  than the other, but obviously hijab is wajib.
• 44:47
  You know, it's like me saying I'm I am actively looking for a
• 44:50
  girl who doesn't pray. Salah can't do that.
• 44:53
  Yeah, Wajibat is Wajibat. But there's some people as well
• 44:56
  that don't believe that hijab is is a Wajibat and that's what
• 44:59
  sometimes. We've had these discussions
• 45:01
  several times where we're trying to prove that it is a wajib act
• 45:04
  the way that the Ayat and Ho La Qurana written signifies A is a
• 45:08
  commandment from God. But some people just want to.
• 45:10
  Completely. The common misconception on this
• 45:12
  is that they say the Quran doesn't specifically say hijab.
• 45:16
  Yeah, but when it when it talks about pull the khamar over your
• 45:21
  head and your bosoms out that you know, sometimes people want,
• 45:24
  they find the word hijab. When hijab is just a barrier.
• 45:26
  It's just it, it doesn't mean the head covering, but some
• 45:29
  people won't quite find that. But then there's also hemal.
• 45:31
  There's also jilbab talks about the klahan talks about the
• 45:34
  jilbab. Even when it when when the word
• 45:36
  hijab is used and in the context of the Halo Quran when it
• 45:39
  mentions that the hijab is between the the wives of the
• 45:42
  prophet and the people that's what that's what the context is
• 45:45
  right. If there's going to be a barrier
• 45:48
  between them surely that's more extreme in my in my humble
• 45:51
  opinion then hair covering do you know what I mean or or body
• 45:55
  covering like putting a physical barrier between 2 human beings
• 45:58
  is more extreme in some degree. So hair covering is in many ways
• 46:02
  is less so because you can still be in the same room and speak
• 46:05
  and whatnot. I think there's there's just
• 46:08
  like obviously that's the study of like the the Quran and
• 46:11
  understanding halal and Haram and whatnot and wajib and what's
• 46:14
  the hub and but if you are a guy and you are actively looking for
• 46:18
  a sister who doesn't wear hijab, think twice please promises.
• 46:21
  We don't often say this on the podcast but you need to think
• 46:24
  twice about what your priorities are.
• 46:26
  The same way you wouldn't say I'm looking for a sister who
• 46:28
  doesn't pray, I'm looking for a. Sister who doesn't, by the way,
• 46:31
  You know, there's another level to that.
• 46:32
  You know, there are some who say, for example, they're
• 46:34
  actually looking for a sister who's not wearing hijab.
• 46:36
  There are those who are looking for a sister who wears hijab,
• 46:38
  but then demand that she loosens the hijab.
• 46:41
  Yeah, Or they try to sexualise their wife.
• 46:44
  They try to show off their wife and they'll say, look, oh, you
• 46:47
  look good when you wear it tighter.
• 46:49
  Or you look good when you put a lot of makeup on.
• 46:51
  Or you should loosen the back a bit.
• 46:52
  I don't like where you wear the cap under your hijab.
• 46:54
  I like with a bit of hair showing.
• 46:55
  You know, you'll get guys who do stuff like that.
• 46:58
  Doesn't make. Well, obviously look, it doesn't
• 46:59
  make sense to me and you, but there are guys who do that
• 47:02
  right? There are guys who will, who
• 47:03
  will like a certain look or do you know what I mean?
• 47:07
  They will make it. I don't know what the word is.
• 47:12
  It will be something that they fetishize, fetish, fetish your
• 47:16
  size and another word fantasize. No.
• 47:18
  And they make it a fetish. Like they'll say that this is
• 47:20
  something I like. And so it's we need to rethink
• 47:23
  this entirely. Honestly, I really think that
• 47:25
  there's there's men in the community who are either
• 47:29
  sexualizing the hijab on their own wives or they are looking
• 47:34
  for women who don't wear hijab, and that's not right.
• 47:37
  And if you're a sister out there who's thinking about that, don't
• 47:39
  give in to pressure. And you don't want a guy who's
• 47:42
  who's acting like that anyway. You would like a guy who's
• 47:45
  looking for someone who wears proper hijab because they will
• 47:49
  look after you and they'll treat.
• 47:49
  Me. That's why I say when a sister
• 47:51
  says, well, people say them. Some men won't marry a woman
• 47:53
  too. That that, that wears A hijab.
• 47:56
  I said That's not a man you want to marry.
• 47:58
  You know, why are we, why are we saying why is that even a
• 48:01
  problem? Because that's not a man that we
• 48:03
  want to marry. If a man tells me to to not wear
• 48:05
  a hijab, I'll I'll never marry a man like that.
• 48:07
  So once again, it's knowing our values and knowing that this is
• 48:11
  our values and being strong in our values.
• 48:12
  I think in all essence, not just the hijab, but in all essence,
• 48:15
  we should never compromise for any human being, any of our
• 48:19
  values, our religious values, our our morals, anything in in
• 48:22
  that aspect. So you know, it's hard, it's
• 48:25
  harder when it comes from a parent or when a parent is is
• 48:28
  then imposing that opinion. But with it comes to trying to
• 48:31
  please others and yeah, yeah. Sister.
• 48:34
  Can I ask, like is, is there a moment where a sister has, for
• 48:37
  example, taken off her hijab? She's spoken to you.
• 48:39
  Where she now? She regrets that decision.
• 48:42
  Yeah. And I say this Why?
• 48:43
  Because I I read the tweets panel here with discussing
• 48:46
  hijab. Yesterday I read the tweet about
• 48:49
  a sister, she said now when the last 10 nights of Ramadan and
• 48:55
  she has put on the hijab. But she had taken off the hijab,
• 48:59
  but she only put it on because that's what she does every
• 49:01
  single year for the last 10 nights.
• 49:02
  And now she goes because I took this upon myself to put on the
• 49:05
  hijab. Now I had to go and delete all
• 49:07
  of last year's images and it just made me feel sick and I
• 49:11
  wanna vomit and of how much men have interacted with me when I
• 49:15
  show my hair, when I show my beauty.
• 49:17
  And now she has understood what hijab is all about.
• 49:20
  But do sisters reach a stage where okay now I've taken off
• 49:23
  society, pressured me, my friends influenced me, I'm
• 49:27
  watching too much Netflix, whoever is.
• 49:30
  And I've reached the stage where no, I want to come back to God.
• 49:33
  I've struggled enough. It's not worth it.
• 49:35
  I want, I want, I want to please Allah.
• 49:38
  I want to be a bit Muslim, inshallah be counted as a woman
• 49:41
  and Charlotte sister who the Imam of our time is pleased
• 49:44
  with. How can I come back to that
• 49:46
  journey? Because a lot of people are
• 49:47
  scared to put her back on because others, other people say
• 49:51
  I told you so. Yeah.
• 49:53
  So it's it becomes difficult, Yeah.
• 49:55
  Once someone takes it off, they feel like there's no return and
• 49:59
  and that is a huge problem. It's same thing with any aspect.
• 50:01
  Even men, you know, that go, you know, they have like unlawful
• 50:05
  relationships and it becomes known.
• 50:06
  They find it hard to come back because they feel like that's
• 50:09
  it. There's a stigma that's been
• 50:10
  placed upon them. But no, I have seen sisters that
• 50:12
  have taken off. Five years ago when I gave birth
• 50:15
  to my daughter was a girl that a girl from the community that had
• 50:18
  taken off completely went the opposite direction.
• 50:20
  I mean complete opposite direction where she even says
• 50:22
  you know, they she started going to pubs.
• 50:24
  Everything was completely the opposite direction.
• 50:27
  And Sapana Lump, six months later COVID hit, so she she was
• 50:33
  kind of upset. So it was nine months later.
• 50:35
  I think it's so there's like back at home.
• 50:37
  So I think that period was a period of reflection for her and
• 50:41
  it was from going to all these things and completely taking off
• 50:43
  a hijab. There's a period of reflection
• 50:45
  now. I saw her recently.
• 50:46
  She has the most beautiful hijab, Abaya hijab, completely
• 50:50
  beautiful. You would never recognise.
• 50:52
  But she said the only thing I regret is that no, she said.
• 50:56
  I'm glad I went through that because it made me appreciate
• 50:58
  the hijab more and it's a journey.
• 51:00
  She recognises the journey and that I've come back stronger
• 51:04
  now. But the only thing she regrets
• 51:06
  is because of social media, the images are somewhat, even though
• 51:10
  they delete it, deleted, they're always going to be there.
• 51:13
  So that was the only regret that she has and she's afraid that
• 51:15
  people now because she deleted her the pictures of social
• 51:18
  media, but she's afraid someone's probably saved it.
• 51:20
  So that is the only kind of regret.
• 51:22
  But she's come back. So I've seen so many people that
• 51:24
  have gone completely in the wrong direction that have come
• 51:26
  back even stronger. So I think that is great hopes
• 51:29
  for someone and even if you kind of slip the path, go back on
• 51:33
  this slaught and mustaqim that Allah always talks about this
• 51:36
  right path. Because there's always a way
• 51:38
  back and Allah's doors of repentance always opens and you
• 51:41
  see people that have slipped and have done the worst of the
• 51:44
  worst, but have come back the most pious and the most
• 51:47
  religious, and it's so beautiful to see and by the way we did.
• 51:50
  A podcast in in Shadowmovan with de Bravi Ibrahim Ansari.
• 51:55
  He mentioned his The aya which he mentioned was from Soto Zomar
• 51:58
  and La Tak, Natomin, Rahmatullah and Allah Yah for the Noba
• 52:03
  Jimmy. And we just remind ourselves
• 52:06
  consistently that Allah, Sponta, Allah is consistently Forgiving,
• 52:09
  Forgiving, Forgiving, Forgiving and whatever the things we've
• 52:12
  done is Allah. The door of mercy is always
• 52:14
  open, whether we're doing Toba or we're using Shafar.
• 52:17
  There are different means for repentance and seeking
• 52:19
  forgiveness from Allah, Sponta Allah.
• 52:21
  And we should never lose hope, whatever it is.
• 52:25
  Whether and I think it's it's difficult as well for the
• 52:27
  sisters because like in that case you mentioned saying a
• 52:30
  sister takes off the hijab in the future.
• 52:32
  That's a public thing that people publicly know it.
• 52:34
  And then later if she wants to come back to the hijab, people
• 52:36
  publicly know it as well. There's a like a feeling of of
• 52:40
  humiliation which people might give her or whatever.
• 52:42
  But you know in private you you might stop praying Kasala and
• 52:46
  then restart. Who's going to know?
• 52:48
  Like it's the it's the same thing, right.
• 52:49
  But it's it's difficult for a sister if she's doing it in
• 52:51
  public. So look, those sisters who are
• 52:54
  on that journey keep going. We pray for you.
• 52:56
  We respect you incredibly highly.
• 52:59
  And we we value you. What you do for us as men.
• 53:03
  You represent us to the world. You are out there.
• 53:05
  You are the face of our religion.
• 53:07
  Your Akhlaq is, is, is representing us.
• 53:11
  You know. Your mannerisms represent us you
• 53:14
  know and and we love that because our Dean is visualised
• 53:18
  by the sister who wears hijab. You know you are the the living
• 53:22
  examples who follow said of Artem Sahara Ali Salaam.
• 53:26
  And we as meant we have to just do what we can to support and
• 53:30
  build the institutions and all of that which allow you to
• 53:33
  flourish. So yeah I think we've we've
• 53:36
  we've covered a lot saying is there anything else you.
• 53:39
  Want to we have and I and I I don't Look before having this
• 53:43
  conversation. I was like we can take this
• 53:44
  conversation either way. We can either stick to strictly
• 53:48
  God, rasul, Allah al Bay takam, halal Haram or have a genuine
• 53:52
  discussion and which is a handle of what we're doing now.
• 53:55
  And I and I and I think that's where we can get people thinking
• 53:59
  and considering to either, you know, reconsider either their
• 54:02
  friend circles or in Charlotte to improve their hijab or for
• 54:05
  those who are struggling with hijab and happening to your
• 54:08
  family members to see it from their perspective as well as as
• 54:11
  to why they are in that stage. But is it fair that we can only
• 54:17
  always relate to Ellen Bates as our role models?
• 54:20
  And I say this why? Because a lot of people have a
• 54:22
  lot of the messages that have come in.
• 54:24
  A lot of them say, for example, I respect Lady Fatim Zahara, Ali
• 54:27
  Salam. This is why I wear the hijab.
• 54:29
  Or I I I respect, say this Zainab Ali has Salaam and This
• 54:34
  is why I wear the hijab. Or I went to Ziara or had the
• 54:36
  spiritual experience but the Ellen Bates connected them back
• 54:41
  together. It allowed them to understand
• 54:42
  hijab and the sacrifices that alibi to went through so that
• 54:45
  the hijab remains alive until this very day.
• 54:47
  And we have instances for example where Lady Zeinab Salam
• 54:51
  Allah how when she was in the court of Yazid where you know
• 54:54
  she addresses the core and she says hey your woman are wearing
• 54:57
  the hijab. And now here the daughters and
• 54:58
  the grandchild of Rasul Allah are not allowed to fair certain
• 55:02
  instances do do I think have an influence on us.
• 55:05
  And I think I Shia we should hold ourselves to a high
• 55:07
  standard and we should take them.
• 55:09
  I was a role model and and we can choose.
• 55:11
  We can even take Lady Fatima, Ali Salaam or we can take the
• 55:15
  likes of Kim Kardashian. All right, let's make the
• 55:18
  conversation real. This is what people people are
• 55:20
  looking up to until this very day.
• 55:23
  So we have to choose either we want the party of Allah, the
• 55:26
  party of half or we want the party of Shaytan and you need if
• 55:30
  we say we are Shia and we are loved as Irrfan Hussain you have
• 55:33
  to picture this yeah say the Zeynep Yazila not a lot like
• 55:39
  this is how you have to see it, your struggles and your jihad,
• 55:42
  the nefs this is how it helps me in other things in life where I
• 55:47
  know for example OK if this is what hackers this is what truth
• 55:50
  is. That's what I want.
• 55:51
  That's what Allah wants. That's what your mom made you
• 55:53
  wants from us. And Inshallah, this is what will
• 55:55
  take us. The thing is, we're not, not
• 55:57
  everyone feels that way. People don't think about the
• 56:00
  Akara. People don't think about the
• 56:02
  bigger picture. People don't think about what's
• 56:03
  displeasing Imam and Mehdi. People don't think about what's
• 56:06
  going to take them towards the piss of Hellfire.
• 56:08
  So I'm not saying that's where you're going to end up, but
• 56:10
  sometimes the path we take, we have to choose.
• 56:12
  Eva. It's the path of Ahmed Wali
• 56:14
  Muhammad or the path of Yazid and Kim Kardashian.
• 56:16
  What do you say to that? No, definitely true I think.
• 56:20
  But that in reality is what you had in Nest is it's it's kind.
• 56:23
  I tried to break it down very quickly to today's.
• 56:25
  But in reality, that's what it is.
• 56:27
  You're always getting pulled into two directions.
• 56:29
  There's either begin being pulled in, in terms of goodness
• 56:32
  and being pulled by the by the pulls of Shaitaan.
• 56:35
  That is in essence what life is. But in in reality there will be
• 56:40
  other ultimate role models in terms of there is nothing
• 56:43
  negative that you will be negatively influenced by them.
• 56:46
  I don't see a problem with someone taking other people kind
• 56:48
  of as role models to a certain extent with the knowledge and
• 56:51
  acknowledgement that they do have flaws.
• 56:53
  Some people may look up to a football player for his football
• 56:56
  skills but then do not kind of follow them in all aspects of of
• 57:00
  their life. I can look at you and look at
• 57:02
  Ahmed and take certain points that will influence me and and
• 57:06
  inspire me, but it's also by recognizing that every human's
• 57:09
  flawed, even the scholars and the speakers and everyone.
• 57:11
  So I think no one is the ultimate perfection except for
• 57:14
  that debate. Ali Ahmed Salaam.
• 57:16
  But it's in reality, you're right.
• 57:18
  We have to recognize that Who are we following?
• 57:20
  And there is a lot of girls I know you mentioned mentioned
• 57:24
  the, you know Kim Kardashian and there's a lot of girls that have
• 57:27
  followed her and unfortunately it's manifested to to wanting to
• 57:31
  look like her getting injections, getting fillers and
• 57:34
  and and then you see it that when you follow someone and when
• 57:38
  you take someone as your role model, it does manifest in the
• 57:40
  way you speak, the way you act, the way you dress and it will
• 57:43
  manifest in all aspects of your life.
• 57:45
  So you're completely right about that.
• 57:46
  Another thing that is very, very important to mention is that
• 57:49
  thinking about the Acura and that is one thing that will keep
• 57:53
  us on the right path because we can have as much fun as we want
• 57:55
  in this world and we can try and forget that we will.
• 57:58
  There is a day that will be account held accountable for
• 58:01
  our. Actions.
• 58:02
  Exactly that day where we will stand there, we'll be
• 58:05
  accountable for everything we do.
• 58:06
  If we neglect that, then we can do whatever we want in this
• 58:08
  world. We can cheat, we can steal, We
• 58:11
  can lie. We can do anything in this
• 58:14
  world. Because we don't have that kind
• 58:17
  of thought of the, you know, for myself or yourself.
• 58:21
  I know your father, our lawyer Hammer, has passed away.
• 58:24
  My father has passed away. We see that connection that the
• 58:26
  people that were closest to us are now have passed over to the
• 58:30
  hereafter and we know that that is going to be our our, our
• 58:36
  future as well. And that's the path that we're
• 58:37
  going to. You know, last night, I know
• 58:39
  this is not going to broadcast on my number last night and do
• 58:42
  you want to kafeel someone went and cooked, cooked the food, He
• 58:46
  helped out, he was serving, he prayed.
• 58:48
  Sadly, Maghrib just was about to have his shower and he passed
• 58:52
  away. And that shows you how fragile
• 58:54
  this life is. And I think if we do not put
• 58:56
  that in our perspective, but we don't truly do not contemplate
• 58:59
  on the fact that we can slip away from this life at any
• 59:02
  second. We can do whatever we will end
• 59:05
  up doing, following the pods of shaytan and doing whatever our
• 59:07
  sole desires without even thinking or contemplating.
• 59:10
  And I think this is the beauty of the the holy month of Ramadan
• 59:14
  that has passed when this broadcast is that month of
• 59:17
  reflection. And we all need reflection.
• 59:20
  The way I wear my hijab, reflecting on my prayers,
• 59:23
  reflecting on the way that I do my acts is a constant reflection
• 59:26
  and all aspects, not just for women that wear the hijab, all,
• 59:28
  all aspects. So definitely, yeah, I think
• 59:31
  it's very important. And while we say that no way
• 59:33
  going towards the end but we also need to emphasize on the
• 59:35
  hijab of men. We know that whole of Quran, the
• 59:38
  first, the first ayah that that was revealed in the whole of
• 59:41
  Quran was was talking about men. And unfortunately we have so
• 59:44
  much emphasis on the hijab of women where there we have some
• 59:46
  men in our community that are sending DMS and messages to
• 59:49
  every woman in the face of this planet and they think that's OK
• 59:53
  And then there's emphasis on a woman's hijab.
• 59:56
  We have to recognize that men also have hijab, We have a
• 59:58
  social hijab. They have the way they look at
• 1:00:00
  women, they. Were so it's more than just
• 1:00:01
  lowering your gaze, it's. Not way knowing your gaze.
• 1:00:05
  Knowing your gaze can sound so like just superficial as well
• 1:00:10
  bro. Like Zahra said.
• 1:00:11
  Like guys who are just spamming and DM ING girls 24/7.
• 1:00:14
  How often do we see that or hear about that?
• 1:00:16
  Sending unsolicited pictures or DMS or like just even like just
• 1:00:20
  adding and requesting. Like non-stop?
• 1:00:23
  And we've seen it. And I'm saying this because
• 1:00:25
  girls have come to screenshots and it happens.
• 1:00:27
  And after, yeah, it happens. And unfortunately we can talk
• 1:00:31
  about the hijab woman but also the hijab woman.
• 1:00:33
  Morality and modesty will never flourish in society without the
• 1:00:37
  participation of both men and 100% yeah it doesn't just fall
• 1:00:39
  on woman wearing a perfect hijab and and when someone is
• 1:00:43
  messaging for the intention of anything more and you could tell
• 1:00:46
  you know there's fine it's fine messaging.
• 1:00:47
  I mean people you people work in different workplaces and you
• 1:00:51
  message for the purpose of there's a purpose behind or
• 1:00:53
  there's a a a good message or swishing someone.
• 1:00:56
  Well you know if someone child is ill and you wish them well
• 1:00:59
  that's that's one thing. But if you're messaging for
• 1:01:01
  example they're sisters that have have for example have got
• 1:01:04
  divorced the next day they've getting messages which is
• 1:01:06
  obvious that this is through a completely different it's a
• 1:01:10
  different thing and then you realise that that the same
• 1:01:11
  person's messaged 100 people. It's not just about the message.
• 1:01:13
  I think people there's a conscience within us all.
• 1:01:16
  We know that if I interact if I now speak to rather much to have
• 1:01:19
  the camera or I speak to you there is a purpose to it and I
• 1:01:22
  know that. I know my consciousness inside
• 1:01:24
  that way it is. Everyone has a conscious people
• 1:01:26
  that message people woman in an incorrect way.
• 1:01:29
  They know they're doing it. And The thing is as if you don't
• 1:01:32
  mind me saying as well as a sister, try and restrict the
• 1:01:36
  opportunities that you give people to message because you
• 1:01:38
  get creeps out there. A lot of men who are creeps.
• 1:01:40
  Let's be real. Yeah.
• 1:01:41
  So being conscious that when you put up a picture, you know I
• 1:01:45
  have someone told me I should not me.
• 1:01:48
  Someone told someone I know. Long story short, there was a
• 1:01:50
  sister who removed, removed pictures of herself from her
• 1:01:54
  Instagram. She just deleted the selfies.
• 1:01:56
  She said that five guys messaged her saying wherever yourself,
• 1:01:58
  he's gone. Yeah, who thinks like that, man?
• 1:02:02
  Like how do people know these things?
• 1:02:04
  You get you get creeps out there as a sister or even as a
• 1:02:07
  brother. We had someone DMS on after
• 1:02:09
  Magdeb yesterday. I don't if you saw her saying
• 1:02:11
  Salaam alaikum Hun Hun with hearts, did you see that?
• 1:02:15
  But I'm thinking this is a podcast.
• 1:02:18
  This is not even that. But who does that?
• 1:02:20
  You. You have to control yourself as
• 1:02:21
  men. Stop being creeps out there,
• 1:02:23
  sisters. Don't put yourself in a position
• 1:02:24
  where you are going to get requests like that.
• 1:02:27
  Don't allow, don't accept requests from random people like
• 1:02:31
  I don't. I don't.
• 1:02:31
  I genuinely don't get it. I have to tell.
• 1:02:34
  I have to tell people this again.
• 1:02:35
  Especially the youth, some of the youth in our communities who
• 1:02:39
  are accepting requests from mutuals.
• 1:02:41
  Why? If you don't know them, don't
• 1:02:43
  know them. So like you randomly see a
• 1:02:45
  mutual and you just add. Yeah, and if you're a boy, you
• 1:02:49
  just add a girl if she's got people in common.
• 1:02:51
  Or like, you'll reply to Instagram Stories.
• 1:02:54
  For what purpose? Strike up a conversation.
• 1:02:56
  For what purpose? Do you know what I mean?
• 1:02:59
  A girl will post a picture of her father, for example, in
• 1:03:01
  Ramadan. Oh wow, that child looks so
• 1:03:03
  nice. Where'd you get it?
• 1:03:05
  Like, what's the point? Starting the conversation.
• 1:03:07
  And that is that that is that hijab there should be a barrier
• 1:03:10
  is you don't. I think people say so can you
• 1:03:13
  not communicate with men and and I say you know we know for
• 1:03:17
  there's formalities and there's when you jump over to this
• 1:03:20
  informal joking and that is when the barrier of hijab has has has
• 1:03:24
  been let down is when you just there's no limits and you can
• 1:03:27
  just sit there laughing and and and just laughing and joking and
• 1:03:30
  just there's no purpose to that conversation 100% So and I'm
• 1:03:34
  glad you said this because it's not like I said it's not just
• 1:03:36
  the men and women women as well do not allow men to have that
• 1:03:40
  accessibility to you. If you feel like someone's
• 1:03:42
  messaging in the wrong way, say sorry, please don't.
• 1:03:44
  Message me. Well, just block them like it's
• 1:03:46
  a. Custom exactly.
• 1:03:47
  You don't even. Exactly.
• 1:03:47
  You don't even. Need to send a message?
• 1:03:48
  Justify anything. Should they tell anyone about
• 1:03:50
  it? Because.
• 1:03:53
  Sometimes I think it can go both ways.
• 1:03:55
  That woman can do that, Yeah. What do you mean?
• 1:03:57
  No. As in should they tell someone?
• 1:03:59
  Like someone's harassing them, or so he's if.
• 1:04:01
  It's harassment. I think if it's just you get
• 1:04:03
  these creeps, you know, from different countries, from around
• 1:04:06
  the globe where they say, well, my shell last is those are that
• 1:04:08
  I think there's no need for for taking it.
• 1:04:11
  If I don't, if it is harassment and sometimes you get to that
• 1:04:13
  board of harassment, then you should consult with someone if
• 1:04:16
  it has dropped over to harassment or stalking.
• 1:04:19
  But if it's just a silly message, that person's probably
• 1:04:22
  send that silly message to 100 other people and seeing who's
• 1:04:25
  going to respond one first. You know, whichever one's going
• 1:04:27
  to respond, I'm going to continue this conversation with
• 1:04:29
  them. So I think that there's no point
• 1:04:31
  telling anyone, just block and ignore basically.
• 1:04:33
  So OK. So, yeah, but they're.
• 1:04:35
  Not preserving for us. So thank you so much.
• 1:04:37
  You're such a good role model for for our younger sisters and
• 1:04:41
  I think even for younger brothers who want to understand
• 1:04:44
  what they are looking for in terms of what you know,
• 1:04:47
  characteristics of potential spouse should have for them and
• 1:04:50
  all of that, thank you so much. Where can firstly, do you allow
• 1:04:54
  sisters to message you if they've got struggles?
• 1:04:57
  Are you open for like? Yeah, I mean my Instagram's open
• 1:05:00
  and nor can message but with them.
• 1:05:02
  Every conscious I. Don't.
• 1:05:04
  I don't have time, but definitely.
• 1:05:06
  Can we forward you the 200 messages we've?
• 1:05:08
  Got I think I'm surprised that that many messages have come
• 1:05:11
  through my show, but that shows us that hijab will always be a
• 1:05:14
  hot topic. It will always be a topic of
• 1:05:16
  discussion and no matter how. And I want to end up by saying
• 1:05:19
  this, that I've been been public speaking for 18 years now and
• 1:05:22
  we've talked about hijabs so many times and the more you talk
• 1:05:25
  about it, you think that's it. But it's a hot topic that will
• 1:05:28
  always be relevant. The discrimination that attacks,
• 1:05:30
  the even the political climate climate of the situation effects
• 1:05:35
  it, Hijab will always be an important topic to talk about
• 1:05:38
  and the struggles will never finish.
• 1:05:39
  And the majority of the messages I get is about hijab.
• 1:05:41
  It's about female pound, It's about feminism.
• 1:05:43
  That's another thing that we need to talk about another day.
• 1:05:45
  But. These are all too.
• 1:05:47
  Around to feminism. But I've got a whole whole load
• 1:05:50
  to say on that. But hijab will always be a
• 1:05:52
  relevant topic and if anyone wants to speak to me when I do
• 1:05:56
  events, just come over. We'll have a nice chat.
• 1:05:58
  We can speak about many struggles and that's what
• 1:06:00
  majority of the people do When I'm at the event, they'll can I
• 1:06:03
  speak to you sister and we go in a corner and we chat, but
• 1:06:06
  messages you can message, but I don't want to take time from
• 1:06:09
  people because you know all messages get read.
• 1:06:11
  Yeah. Santam and listen brother
• 1:06:13
  sisters, if you are, if you have made it here, firstly forgive us
• 1:06:17
  if we've said anything, especially me or said Ali,
• 1:06:20
  because we are not experts in this as men and we're trying our
• 1:06:24
  best. Yeah, so and I told said Ali
• 1:06:25
  before I was like, I'm really nervous to have this
• 1:06:27
  conversation. So please forgive us if we've
• 1:06:30
  said anything which has offended you or yeah, intentionally or
• 1:06:33
  unintentionally. And look, continue to share us
• 1:06:37
  your share with us your feedback, your suggestions, and
• 1:06:41
  if we if you think we've got anything wrong or if you want to
• 1:06:44
  add another perspective or an experience or advice that's
• 1:06:46
  worked for you, comment down below and let us know.
• 1:06:50
  Because we we all want to benefit from that.
• 1:06:52
  Inshallah we we as either as men or as women, we can all learn I
• 1:06:56
  think something from this conversation I.
• 1:06:57
  Sent I sent and I and I think before we end off I just want to
• 1:07:00
  share at least one of the messages of advice sister sent
• 1:07:04
  in to advise other sisters that are struggling and I think this
• 1:07:07
  is 1 recently that came in. It says this is a longer message
• 1:07:10
  so apologies but I'm very passionate about this topic.
• 1:07:13
  The advice I would give to any young girl exploring hijab is
• 1:07:16
  that I is that I would inform them that hijab is your crown.
• 1:07:20
  You wear it with pride. Hijab is your uniform and it
• 1:07:23
  allows you to be recognized easily as a Muslim and the Quran
• 1:07:26
  says we are covered to be recognized nor harassed.
• 1:07:29
  Being recognized as a Muslim is such an honour and a great
• 1:07:31
  responsibility. It's a way in which you can
• 1:07:34
  prove others wrong and educate people on the beauty of Islam.
• 1:07:38
  I also view hijab as your armour, your helmet and your
• 1:07:41
  protection. There will be times in which
• 1:07:42
  your helmet will be knocked off by others, but that does not
• 1:07:45
  mean you can you You don't continue fighting without it.
• 1:07:48
  No, you go pick yourself up, you take a deep breath and you put
• 1:07:51
  the helmet back on and you continue the fight.
• 1:07:53
  Hijab is also more than just a piece of cloth around your hair.
• 1:07:56
  Hijab also extends your character and your behaviour and
• 1:07:59
  ultimately and I and I think that's 11 advice was worth
• 1:08:03
  sharing here And I do also want to thank you for coming on to
• 1:08:07
  the podcast today And I just want to say like Echo Ahmed's
• 1:08:10
  words you are an inspiration to us as well as the community.
• 1:08:13
  The way you speak, the way you carry yourself, your luck and
• 1:08:16
  and and I think this plays a key role thanks to your father
• 1:08:19
  Rahmatullahi Ali and your father.
• 1:08:21
  You know, we can we can speak, we can have a whole conversation
• 1:08:24
  about him and may Allah bless us all truly for giving us the
• 1:08:29
  likes of yourself and the likes of Charlotte continues for all
• 1:08:34
  your children. Haji and me.
• 1:08:35
  Like there's so much we can discuss just on hijab and we can
• 1:08:38
  relate it to how families play a key role here.
• 1:08:41
  So Handelah, thank you for thank you very much giving us your
• 1:08:44
  time, your feedback. Thank you.
• 1:08:46
  All right guys, we will be back as always next week.
• 1:08:49
  Make sure you tune in. Don't forget to subscribe and
• 1:08:52
  we'll see you next week in the after the podcast.
• 1:08:55
  Take care of some I.