Latest / Half the Picture / #34 - JOANNE MITCHELL

Transcript

#34 - JOANNE MITCHELL · Half the Picture

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the more that there are female filmmakers,
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then those stories will be more visible.
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Women are really, really interesting,
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and they're not just the ongenoo or the victim or whatever.
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They're all a villain.
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You know, there's so much going on there
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and having the confidence to kind of go,
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why not?
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Why doesn't she, can't she do this?
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No one would think twice if a man did this action,
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but because a woman's doing it, oh my gosh, you know,
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it's taboo.
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Let's see what happens.
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Let's see the reaction.
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Let's get people talking.
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And I think that's important.
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Hello, Joanne, welcome to Half the Picture.
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How are you doing today?
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I'm good.
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Thank you very much for having me.
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No problem.
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We're here to talk about your film Broken Bird,
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which is soon to come out on a home media in the UK
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and is soon to be getting a theatrical release in the US.
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Yeah, as I was saying before, I saw it last night.
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I loved it.
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What's interesting to me about that film
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is that it feels very assured,
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but it's your directorial debut.
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And a question I've been asking on the pod
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a lot lately about, yes, is like,
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what makes a good sort of film profession insert here?
1:14
So what makes a good editor or makes a good composer
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or makes a good director?
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And I guess for you, as seeing as this was your first film,
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what do you think makes a good director
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based on what you learned from this film?
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I think what makes a good director
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is having amazing people around you.
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Just having an amazing team, amazing HODs, crew,
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and casting it.
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I think it always starts with the story.
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I think it starts with the writing
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and I think it starts with the characters
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so that when you've got really great characters
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and a great arc and a clear story
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that means something that resonates with you
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so that then you can visualize it
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and express that vision to your team,
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then that really, really helps.
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I think I've been working on the story for quite some time
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so I was very clear of what I wanted,
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which always helps.
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And I was working in Serbia,
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so I had to be super, super clear
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because there was a language barrier,
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which we can talk about later on if you want to,
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but yes, so I think ultimately,
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it really boils down to you having that clear vision
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of what you want and being able to express it to your team
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and for that team to really,
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to have that support of your team
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because you can't do it without them.
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To having good people around you
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and being able to communicate sounds like the hallmarks
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of a good character.
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And I think the start of it is the script and the story
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and casting.
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Yeah, so there's quite a lot actually.
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But yeah, I think it's,
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I think those are the most,
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it starts with the story,
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the characters, the team and the casting.
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Yeah.
3:00
Mm, good answer.
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And with this story then,
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because I'm curious to ask about the sort of,
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what was the germ of the idea?
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Because the story is so,
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it goes to so many sort of strange, twisted, dark places.
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I mean, it is a horror film.
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So you know, it's what you'd expect.
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But like, it goes to some very unpredictable places.
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Like, you know, it kind of kept me and my girlfriend
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on our toes when we watched it.
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I mean, what, and I know it, yeah.
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And I know, yes, thumbs up, success.
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And because I know it started as a short film originally,
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then expanded to feature length.
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I mean, what was the germination of this idea
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that is at the sort of heart of the film?
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Well, it's all kudos to the woman who actually,
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it was her original story, her original idea,
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which was from the short film,
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which was originally called Cypill
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and Tracy came to us with this idea
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and said, look, what do you think about this?
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And she wrote us an email.
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And I thought, oh, gosh, that's really, really interesting.
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Let's give it a go.
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And it was for a short film because at that time,
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I hadn't directed anything I'd co-produced
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and co-written and been in quite a bit of stuff,
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but with my other half.
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So I really, I had this sort of urge to want to direct.
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So I liked her.
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I liked this character, even though it was any sort of,
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in the end, the script was like five or six pages
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and it was under sort of between 10 and 15 minute short film.
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There was something about her that I liked,
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even though she was completely odd
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and did despicable things.
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But that was the sort of, from there,
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the journey expanded because I wanted to understand
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more about her and why she did these things that she does
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because there was some part of me that really was indeed to her.
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But there was another part that was, you know,
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I felt I was reviled by her.
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So I was really interested in that sort of juxtaposition.
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So we did myself and Tracy and Dominic.
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We did a lot of, you know, brainstorming
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and I was really thinking about where she came from
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and why she did the things that she did.
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And for me, it has to, it has to be based in emotional truth.
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And that's what, you know, that's what I think the film is.
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I think even though it does sit within the horror genre,
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it is each character has an emotional truth and honesty to them.
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And for me, that really then helped me expand
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what I could do with the storytelling
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because as we know in horror,
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it's a wonderful platform for storytelling and anything can go.
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And you can really play with that
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and we can play with the imagination.
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So yeah, so that's how it's sort of evolved into what Broke and Bird.
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And because I absolutely agree with you about the horror genre
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that it can be, it's so elastic
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and it can be used basically to tell any story and sort of probe any taboo.
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I mean, what is it about horror?
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Is that the sort of element of horror that sort of galvanises you
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and galvanises you into making this movie in one of them?
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Yeah, I mean, as you know, as you've just said,
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there are so many sub-genres within horror.
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And for me, personally, I like the sort of more character-led horror movies.
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And I think that's where my sensibility lies
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within the genre.
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And yeah, so I think that's what will always compel me.
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It's always to do with character.
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So I mean, it could be any genre to be honest,
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but I think, you know, as long as the character's strong and real,
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I think I can then play and go anywhere
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because the audience will be drawn in to the character
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and taken on that journey.
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So everything else that you throw at them
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within the confines of that character becomes compelling
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and dare I say believable in a kind of dark way.
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So yeah, that's what, for me, that really,
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that's where my interest lies.
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And speaking about characters and making characters believable,
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the star of this movie is Rebecca Kolder,
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who is fantastic in the film.
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And as we say, this film in this character particularly
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of Sybil goes to so many dark places.
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And as I was watching it, I was thinking,
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there must be a great degree of trust.
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There would have had to have been a great degree of trust to me anyway
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between you and her as a director and actor combo
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in order to take this character into these sort of twisted areas
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and make that believable.
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I mean, what was it like working with her on the film?
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Oh, I mean, Rebecca is amazing.
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And I didn't know her before.
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I didn't manage to meet her before because I was in Belgrade
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and there was no time for me to actually get over to London
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and do the audition process.
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So which was hard actually, which worried me
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because you can see someone on screen,
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but what happens if you don't gel?
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And as you said, there needs to be a lot of trust
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with this character because she does go to some deep dark places.
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However, Rebecca was phenomenal
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and she is such an instinctive, nuanced, enigmatic actor.
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And she really, really asks all the questions
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and wants to know all the backstory
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because there is a little bit touched on in the film,
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but in order to make her a really fully rounded, layered character,
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she needed to ask questions about other stuff.
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So we did discuss a lot when she came.
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I think it was only like maybe two weeks
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before we started shooting.
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So you can imagine there wasn't much time for a rehearsal,
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but we would go out for coffees and we'd talk extensively
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and she made a sort of Bible of her character's journey
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and everything in the script and had lists
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and lists of questions for me.
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And it was so much fun to work on
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because I've done acting in the past myself
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so that helped me be able to relate stuff with her.
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And yeah, as long as it was based in truth
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and as long as it was done with care and consideration,
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everything, and she understood why it was happening,
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then she was completely fine with it with everything
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because there are, as you said, some moments
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where you kind of go, ooh, you know,
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but without giving any spoilers away,
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it's because it's real to her, it's her truth
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and she's totally justified in everything she does.
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So, and also you have to,
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and we got on very well in that way.
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So I think that really helped.
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I think it's really important for actors
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from my experience as well to feel really safe on set
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because especially in a foreign country
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where everyone is speaking Serbian on set
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and a lot of them don't even speak English
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and they're all wonderful, they're brilliant,
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they're an amazing crew, but you know,
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they're very passionate people, the Serbs,
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and so they're quite loud
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and this is quite a quiet film.
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So when they're sort of shouting, here we are,
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I could feel sometimes the actors going,
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but you know, they really sort of,
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they stepped up to that challenge
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and it was just, for me, it was really important
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to that they all felt heard and seen and nurtured
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and I think that was the experience that they had.
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Yeah, and with that Serbian crew
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because as we said at the start, like, you know,
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as you said, you know, one of the hallmarks
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of a good director is good communication.
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As you say, you're working with a predominantly Serbian crew,
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you know, a lot of them don't speak English.
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I mean, what challenges do that pose for you on set
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as you're trying to get the shots
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and get the performances
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and get just get the movie made?
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Yeah, yeah.
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So I was very clear, I had a very clear shot list
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of what I wanted and my camera plans
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and I'd worked with the D.O.P. Ego Manovic beforehand
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and we'd obviously discussed everything
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and obviously with the other HODs, production designers,
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customer designers, art directors.
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So everything was very clear about what we wanted.
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Now, when an Ego was actually, his English is fine
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and I had a very, very wonderful first AD, Miliner
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and she had very, very good English.
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So what happened because the time is always against you
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and if I would say, okay, this is what's gonna happen now
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in English and then she would have to then translate
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to Serbian, that's taking up time, that's eating time.
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So every day, you know, she'd have my shot list
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and I'd say, this is what I want blah, blah, blah.
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So we decided in the end because we were looking at the clock
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and she said, look, Joe, can I just say everything
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instead of you saying it in English?
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I'll just tell them, we all know what you want.
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I'll just tell them all in Serbian.
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I went, yeah, do it, do it, whatever works,
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let's just get moving.
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So we found a way of making it work
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because I was nervous about exactly that
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because this is a very British film as well
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and most of them haven't even been to England.
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So it was really important to get that tone right
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and to really, and I think what happened was
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was that it always takes a while to find the rhythm,
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maybe at the first few days, maybe a week to find the rhythm
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and everyone's sort of sussing everybody out
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and I'm a woman and there's all these kind of things going on
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and then I think everyone sort of found their flow
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and everyone then trusted and then it became a big family.
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So it was great.
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So it didn't really matter about the language.
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There was a smile here, how are you thumbs up
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all that kind of stuff when you're walking on set
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and stuff because literally some people
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didn't speak a word of English.
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But I think it's to do with how you are
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and how everyone is and how everyone treated each other
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with that sort of basic humanity
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which kind of made for a very enjoyable experience
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despite all the challenges.
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And as you say, the movie is a British movie
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in that sort of tone and I mean particularly,
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it has a very interesting, very morbid northern sensibility
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and northern style and sense of humor.
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And as you say, you're making it in Serbia
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but then obviously it's also about a very specific sort
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of part of the UK.
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I mean, how important was it for you to capture
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that sort of northern tone?
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At least it seems to me on screen in the film.
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Yeah, it was super important that I got that
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and I didn't know how I was going to get that
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when I went out there.
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That's the one thing that made me feel sick
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because I just thought, I've never been to Serbia.
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I'd looked at the pictures of Serbia
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and I was like, this isn't going to work.
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This is not going to work.
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And then I was driven from the airport
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to the production offices
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and there was like brutalist architecture
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but it means beautiful.
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But I just thought, my God, this is not your chair.
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And anyway, so it was kind of terrifying.
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I did feel sick for quite a lot of the time
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and then I was, when I started going out to the locations
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and when I had a great scout and location manager
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and it did take time to find what I wanted
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because don't forget they hadn't been to England.
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So they were only going online lookbook and what I said.
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But given that time, I think I had two or three weeks
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for scouting, I started finding locations that I,
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but I think that was also to do with me
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having to really open my mind
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because it was very set in my head, the landscape
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because I live in the landscape.
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So I know what it looks like.
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I know what the stone looks like.
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I know what the wet gray looks like.
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And so it was a challenge, but we did find it.
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So for example, the pub scene, it was written
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as a pub scene in a kind of open mic night
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in one of those old pubs with wooden beams
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of white walls and sticky carpets.
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But there was no way I was going to find that in Belgrade
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or Serbia.
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And you know, they sort of given me,
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presented to me a few kind of those themed Irish pubs.
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And it was like, no, no, no, no, no, it's not going to work.
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But then I was going to have a pizza one day
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around the back of the, where the production offices are.
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And I just found, I came across this like little restaurant.
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I was like, do you know what?
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This could be a little poetry bar.
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And we could convert this.
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And this would work well.
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I could see this in Hebdenbridge.
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This is the way it looked, the way it felt,
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the sort of ambiance, the tone of it.
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So then I brought the production designer in
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and obviously this cinematographer, and we discussed it.
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And actually, for me, because there's a kind of
16:47
pretentiousness to it.
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And I think that kind of worked really well,
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that kind of arty, farty pretentiousness.
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And I think it worked better, actually,
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than just a local pub in the Yorkshire Dales.
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So yeah, I was really happy.
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But I think it's that kind of flexibility of opening your mind
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when you have a very clear vision.
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So it's, that's just filmmaking through and through.
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Don't let the plan get in the way of a better idea.
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Exactly, exactly, exactly.
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And what kind of influences were sort of bearing down
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on the movie, because like, as I say,
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we talk about that northern sort of soul,
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that northern morbidness and that energy.
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And I mean, I'm reminded of things like League of Gentlemen
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and that kind of strand of, like, even sort of films
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up by Ben Wheatley, like Kill List and stuff,
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that sort of strand of sort of northern kind of,
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like, darkness and humor.
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I mean, what kind of things were influencing you
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on the making of the movie?
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Good question.
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I think subconsciously, I was influenced subconsciously
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by certain films and filmmakers.
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The films that really sort of resonate with me
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are character-led films and films
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that sort of are playful and imaginative.
18:01
So films like St. Mord, for example,
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which is very deeply embedded in emotional truth
18:09
and character, but goes to some weird places.
18:13
I love that.
18:15
And then there's a kind of dark and light playfulness
18:18
imagination of Del Toro.
18:20
So there was this sort of, it's those sort of films for me,
18:26
the Babadouk, they're really embedded in truth,
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but there's a playfulness to them.
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Also, I didn't, as I said, a lot of the production crew
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and my H.O.D. had never been to Britain.
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So it was really important for me to translate
18:49
the feel of the film what I wanted to them
18:52
if they've never even sort of been surrounded
18:56
by anything in England, apart from what they see on the,
19:00
well, maybe movies, not necessarily TV.
19:02
I did say to my D.O.P. I said, look, I really want,
19:05
and it's great that you said, like,
19:06
League of Gentleman and stuff like that.
19:08
And they do know things like that.
19:10
But I said, also, look at things like Happy Valley.
19:12
If we can get Happy Valley, because it's got that,
19:14
I mean, it's literally set in,
19:17
I have done bridges, Happy Valley, that's where I live.
19:20
So it was, I said, look at that.
19:22
There's a gritty realness to it,
19:24
but there's a kind of, you know, normalness to it as well.
19:29
And I want that reality.
19:31
So they did, they watched, you know,
19:32
they watched things like that, saying more,
19:34
they were obsessed with, because they hadn't seen that,
19:36
and they loved that.
19:37
And yeah, League of Gentleman is a great one.
19:39
I hadn't really thought about it,
19:40
but I loved League of Gentleman.
19:41
And any of those kind of northern dramas,
19:45
I wish that a lot now is set up here,
19:48
because of the wonderful landscape,
19:51
and that sort of gritty realism and humor.
19:57
Yeah, I mean, those films that you just reeled off,
19:59
are terrific, like St. Mord's,
20:01
a fantastic film, the Babadouk.
20:02
I mean, that's one of my favorite horror films.
20:04
And it's interesting that you mention those,
20:05
because of course it makes sense to me,
20:07
at least, in the lineage of Broken Bird,
20:10
because, you know, that feminine,
20:12
those horror sort of excursions into kind of,
20:14
I guess, femininity and putting sort of feminine experience
20:18
and the sort of psyche into horror.
20:20
I mean, that's a really interesting sort of part of horror,
20:23
which I guess in the last sort of 10, 15, 20,
20:24
well, I mean, it's been going for decades,
20:26
but like, I guess you've seen much more of that
20:27
in the last 10, 15 years.
20:28
I mean, how important do you think it is that horror
20:32
explores that sort of,
20:33
doing there's a lot there to sort of be carved out?
20:37
I do, I do actually, and I think it is really important.
20:40
And as you say, it has been going on for years,
20:44
and decades, but not so much.
20:47
And I think the more that there are female storytellers
20:51
and filmmakers, then those stories will be more visible.
20:56
And it's not to say that men can't do it,
20:58
and it's not to say that women can't direct, you know,
21:01
male-led films either, but it's interesting
21:05
that it comes from a female perspective.
21:07
Exactly, as you say, you know, Jennifer Kent with Babadouk
21:11
and Rose Glass with St. Mord,
21:13
there is those kind of, you know, it's real,
21:19
and it's dark, and it's messy,
21:22
and there's a quirkiness to it,
21:25
because I feel that women are really, really interesting,
21:29
and they're not just the ongenoo or the victim or whatever.
21:33
They're all the villain.
21:34
You know, there's so much going on there
21:38
that women have got to give and to show and express.
21:43
So I think, you know, the more we can support that
21:49
within the industry, the better, not easy,
21:53
but, you know, let's keep challenging that.
21:58
Because there's so much, I agree, there's so much richness
22:00
and nuance to be found, you know, in that experience.
22:03
And I feel like, I guess, yeah, you could argue
22:05
in the last 10 years, you know, not just in horror,
22:07
but like, I guess more female filmmakers have been coming
22:10
to the fore, more, you know, female-led stories,
22:12
but I feel like horror is just so perfectly positioned
22:14
a lot of ways to really, as we were saying earlier,
22:16
it's so elastic, it can really plumb those depths.
22:19
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
22:21
And I think, I mean, like I've said before,
22:24
it's just playing with it and having the confidence
22:29
to kind of go, well, let's, why not?
22:32
Why doesn't she, can't she do this, you know,
22:35
it wouldn't be thought, no one would think twice
22:37
if a man did this action, but because a woman's doing it,
22:40
oh my gosh, you know, it's taboo.
22:43
But again, no spoilers, but it's kind of,
22:46
but why not, you know, let's do it.
22:49
Let's see what happens.
22:50
Let's see the reaction.
22:51
Let's get people talking and I think that's important.
22:55
Mm, absolutely.
22:56
And as we said at the start, like the movie
22:58
is coming out on her media in the UK
23:00
and then soon it's coming out at Fiatch within the US.
23:02
I mean, as we say, like the movie is such a distinctive
23:06
British, northern British sensibility.
23:08
I mean, how do you feel like it's going to,
23:10
what your expectations feel like,
23:11
American reactions to that?
23:13
I mean, how do you think it will go down?
23:14
And have you had any reactions yet from sort of America?
23:16
No, no, not really.
23:18
Not really.
23:18
I think they might try, I mean, I just don't know.
23:22
I mean, it's the same when it premiered in the UK
23:25
at the Fright Fest, I was like, you just don't know
23:28
what that reaction is going to be.
23:31
And thankfully, it was well received.
23:32
But, you know, are the Americans that different to us?
23:36
I don't know.
23:37
They might, some parts of America might be totally appalled.
23:41
And some parts of America will really love it.
23:43
I, you know, it's like anything.
23:45
I think the story is strong enough
23:48
and I think the characters are strong enough
23:49
and because they're based in truth, they become compelling
23:52
and we can, the audience can be taken on a journey with that.
23:57
I think there is, it is a dark British humour
24:03
in some areas, which I think some Americans
24:06
might struggle with, but some Americans might absolutely lap up.
24:11
I also think some of the themes running through the film
24:14
are universal.
24:15
So you've got sort of the grief, you've got isolation,
24:20
you've got loneliness.
24:22
And I think those are something, you know,
24:24
we deal with them all in different ways.
24:26
And I think we've, I've just used this film as a platform
24:32
to explore and play with them, but not in a kind of,
24:36
there is a morbid way, but it's, there's also a playful way
24:39
in an imaginative way.
24:40
So hopefully, you know, I've kept an eye on the audience
24:44
that they are going to be entertained as well as,
24:47
as well as compelled and provoke, you know, thought-provoking,
24:53
I would like to say, yeah.
24:55
Hmm, absolutely.
24:56
And what kind of memorable reactions have you had to the movie
24:59
so far, like what are some of the most memorable ones?
25:01
Reactions, well, I, you know, when I'm actually,
25:07
I haven't, you know, I tend not to watch it
25:11
with other people in a cinema,
25:12
because it makes me feel incredibly anxious.
25:15
But I did, I was in a couple of screenings.
25:20
And I think the reactions to,
25:24
when Mrs. Fisher does her certain thing to her husband,
25:27
for example, I can't, can I say what it is?
25:30
Because it's a spoiler, but, you know, it's a really,
25:32
I, it was, it was, when she punches him, let's say,
25:37
it was a really, really great moment for me
25:40
because I really wanted it to be humorous
25:44
and it got a massive laugh and it almost, you know,
25:47
got a clap, you know, so, so it's interesting
25:50
in like in, in Biff at the Brussels International
25:53
fantastic films, I didn't know that they are very vocal
25:58
in, in, in, in, in watching films.
26:02
And they were just like whooping, clapping, laughing.
26:06
And I was like, oh my God, that's brilliant.
26:08
But I think they do that anyway.
26:10
But they do boo if it's not very, you know, if they don't like it.
26:13
So it's kind of, sorry, luckily that didn't happen.
26:18
But I think, yeah, I'm, I'm really,
26:20
I, what I like is that the, the moments of light relief,
26:24
if it is because it's darkness and light,
26:27
they seem to be, they seem to, they seem to work
26:30
from the audiences that I've managed to creep into.
26:37
And I think people, yeah, I think people have,
26:39
have this reaction of, I don't like her,
26:45
but I kind of do, you know, they have this kind of feeling
26:48
that I shouldn't like her because of her despicable things
26:51
that she does, but there's something about her
26:53
that I kind of like and I like that because it's,
26:56
it means that people are being compelled,
26:58
they find her interesting and they're taking on,
27:01
they're taking on her journey.
27:03
So, yeah, hopefully those ingredients will translate
27:10
to the US and Europe.
27:14
I'll say, I mean, the moment where she punches the,
27:16
the husband was the moment where me and my girlfriend were like,
27:18
okay, wow, okay, where's this go?
27:20
You know, I mean, where's this going next?
27:21
So now I'll say it works.
27:24
Thank you, thank you.
27:26
No worries, Joanne.
27:27
Well, thanks so much for coming on half the picture, Joanne.
27:29
This was such pleasure to chat to you about the movie.
27:31
As I say, I really enjoyed the movie
27:33
and I can't wait to see how it goes down.
27:34
If it has a say over an American,
27:36
a new audience, a virgin audience to it.
27:38
Yes.
27:39
I'm sure it's going to, I'm sure it's going to pack
27:41
a bit of a punch, so yeah.
27:43
Thank you, nice pun there, I like it.
27:45
I actually didn't even realise I did that.
27:47
I actually, I honestly didn't even realise I made that pun.
27:50
So that, well observed, I didn't even recognise that.
27:53
Really, really, well, thanks so much, Joanne.
27:56
Yeah, thank you so much.
28:07
Hey everyone, thanks so much listening to my chat with Joanne Mitchell.
28:11
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28:13
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28:14
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28:16
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28:23
Thank you.