Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / The Unexpected Business That Came From Retirement With Rajeev Khanna, M.D.

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The Unexpected Business That Came From Retirement With Rajeev Khanna, M.D. · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

0:00
One of the things we talked on the phone before you got here,
0:03
about a week or two ago when I was scheduling you to come on
0:06
the show and you mentioned you were a practicing Dr. You had, I
0:09
think, 3 different offices and practices.
0:12
You sold them all and then you retired and then you came out of
0:15
retirement to start a software company.
0:17
That's seems to be pretty disruptive.
0:19
That's summed up pretty. So, so yeah, I'm excited to dive
0:22
into all this and I think first of all, I'd love to just, since
0:25
you're a doctor and we had a lot of questions from the community
0:28
and I'll ask at least a couple of them on the show here.
0:31
I'm curious to get your your perspective on the health side
0:33
of things. So can you maybe list off what
0:36
type of practicing Dr. you are first?
0:38
Just the audience kind of knows what your background.
0:40
Yeah, sure. Thank you for having me by
0:42
training, I'm a fellowship trained sports medicine
0:45
physician. So basically I did office
0:47
orthopedics, musculoskeletal injuries, my practice we took
0:51
care of a lot of employers about 700 throughout Chicago.
0:55
And so we saw everything that happens in a work related injury
0:58
from knee injuries, shoulder, back, ankles, fractures
1:02
etcetera. And then I also took care of 9
1:05
sports teams, so we would occasionally have a wrestler
1:09
with a skin infection or somebody with a heart condition.
1:12
So we did some, you know, primary care as well.
1:15
But the majority of the patients that I treated were athletes or
1:19
work related injuries with musculoskeletal issues.
1:22
Got it. So maybe this is a little bit
1:24
outside of your realm, but I had AI told the our founder talk
1:27
community that you were coming on and I told him about you in
1:29
the software, what you guys were doing with that, that also that
1:32
you were a doctor. And one of the question or one
1:34
of the questions that came in from Brick, who's another
1:36
founder, he said, what's the biggest obstacle to society
1:39
taking a proactive approach to their own health?
1:42
Because there's the you probably see people when they are injured
1:45
or something happens. But as we know, we kind of use
1:48
the check engine light and OK, let's go see a doctor.
1:51
Let's fix whatever's broken versus taking a proactive
1:54
approach to our health. Yeah.
1:56
That's a great question. And you know, the thing that I
1:58
see is the way that the healthcare system is set up,
2:04
unfortunately, you don't see care until you have an illness.
2:09
A lot of younger individuals especially, but all our age
2:12
groups tend not to go for their annual physical, not to do their
2:17
preventive testing, whether it's a colonoscopy or an EKG.
2:23
And only when things start to spiral out of control or become
2:27
severely symptomatic is when they tend to seek healthcare.
2:32
So, you know, the old saying an ounce of prevention is worth a
2:35
pound of cure. If they people go in, get their
2:37
blood pressure checked, their sugars checked, their
2:40
cholesterol checked, you can prevent some of these illnesses
2:44
that become, you know, drivers to the cost of healthcare as
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people get older. Why don't you think people do
2:51
preventative health checks? Why don't they go to the doctor
2:53
before something happens? There's a variety of reasons.
2:56
I think sometimes it's getting in nowadays to a doctor's
2:59
appointment is, you know, you wait a few months, the cost.
3:03
Sometimes there's associated co-pays.
3:06
Sometimes it's a certain services aren't covered.
3:09
You know, the, the for profit healthcare model sometimes makes
3:14
it, you know, a barrier that, well, I, I don't really don't
3:16
want to go pay that $500 or $1500 deductible just to get my
3:21
annual physical done, but I feel fine.
3:25
I'll just go in if something. Happens.
3:27
Do you think part of it's fear? They're worried that I'm scared
3:30
to go in because what if they do find something?
3:32
Or what if I have to deal with something or?
3:34
I would hope not. I would, you know, think that
3:37
the majority of individuals would want to know.
3:41
Catch it early if there's something right, yeah.
3:43
Exactly that, you know what, my blood pressure is high and I'd
3:47
rather take medication and not have a stroke, right?
3:51
To, you know, have a stroke or have a heart attack.
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Or I'd like rather, you know, find out that my blood sugar is
3:58
high and it can be controlled with dietary modification,
4:01
exercise or medication. Yeah, rather than waiting until
4:05
I lose my vision. Are there certain age groups or
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like when you turn a certain age roughly that you should go see a
4:10
doctor like 40-50 you know 30 fives or certain groups that you
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say hey if you turn 35 or 40 you should just do a check up.
4:19
So different body parts have different, you know, timelines.
4:23
Obviously, you don't need to get a colonoscopy until you're 50
4:26
years old or unless you have a history of, you know, colon
4:30
cancer in your family. And then the screening should
4:32
start at a younger age. Oh, it's 50 now, I thought.
4:34
For some reason I thought it was like 40s.
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You know what? And again, I'm sports medicine,
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so they may have changed too. Yeah, 25 years ago it was 50.
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But no, you're probably right. It's possible.
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I know they've got the guidelines.
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So, but you know, the same thing with your routine, you know,
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blood tests and stuff like that. A lot of these illnesses, you
4:54
know, high cholesterol, high blood sugar, they're called
4:56
silent killers. You don't really feel any
4:59
symptoms unless the sugar is very high or you build up, you
5:02
have high cholesterol, you build up a lot of plaque in your
5:04
arteries. So again, you know, if there's a
5:07
family history, you start the screening or preventive care
5:09
earlier. But other than that, if you're a
5:12
routine, healthy person, you want at least get an annual
5:14
physical once a year just to make sure things are, you know,
5:19
staying well in your systems. Yeah, I was at the Barber shop a
5:23
couple weeks ago and the guy was talking about they went on all
5:25
guys like hiking trip in Montana or whatever it was, and they
5:30
mentioned one of the friends. So I think it was like 5152
5:32
years old. He was younger, not an old guy,
5:34
you know, and just kind of drop dead on the trail and wasn't
5:39
super overweight, didn't seem to have all these health issues.
5:42
But I guess there was something that happened, plaque buildup,
5:45
something broke apart, went to the heart and and that was it.
5:48
It was just so sad. It's just like, man, I those
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moments give you perspective on life, just him.
5:54
Yeah, and that's really unfortunate.
5:56
But unfortunately, we hear those stories all too often, and
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there's no guarantee going to the doctor's office is going to
6:02
prevent that from happening. I mean, there's only so many
6:04
tests that can be done. But by the same token, there may
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have been some other red flags that could have been picked up
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or family history that no one was aware of.
6:13
So, you know, again, it's hard to kind of speculate here what
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caused it, but that is unfortunate.
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I think more often than not, having an annual physical will
6:25
help you identify those causes than the ones that just come out
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of the blue and, you know, for no apparent reason, something
6:31
happens. Yeah.
6:32
Seems like the elephant in the room right now is that America's
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fat and we're just not healthy. You know, for the most part, if
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you just kind of look around and survey, you're out and about.
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You're at the store, you kind of look around.
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Doesn't doesn't look like we're super healthy as a society.
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Why do you think that is? You're absolutely right.
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And you know, I've got several of my opinions on that.
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I'll share a couple of them. One is life has gotten so busy
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that people don't cook at home anymore.
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I remember as a kid growing up in Chicago, bread would spoil,
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milk would spoil, fruits would spoil.
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Now I can have a loaf of bread sitting in my refrigerator for a
7:10
month or two, or I can have apples that will sit on my
7:13
counter for a couple of weeks. So there's a lot of
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preservatives added to foods. People, young people or all age
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groups don't cook as much as they used to.
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So the food that we're eating is not as fresh or as healthy as it
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was 3040, fifty years ago. So I think that's one of the
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reasons. And then unfortunately, you
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know, many people because of work these days, have a
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sedentary lifestyle. You know we're sitting.
7:47
Right now, damn it. We're sitting behind a computer.
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We're, you know, sitting at a desk.
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We're doing things using technology which before were
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manual. And it's an all, you know,
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fields of our occupations, you know, machine workers.
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They're automated now. You know, the power tools are
8:05
out there for construction workers and stuff like that.
8:08
So yeah, that improved efficiencies.
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But the level of exercise that we had, I didn't come home from
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school and, you know, or High School Lane Tech in the city
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and, you know, have the option to surf 2000 channels on cable
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TVI would drop my books at home and run out to play with the
8:25
other boys in the neighborhood. And when it got dark, we'd come
8:29
home. But now the kids are playing
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Fortnite remotely on their computers.
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You know, they're not even interacting.
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So I really believe that, you know, technology is good.
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But some of the changes have led us to a sedentary lifestyle and
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with everyone wanting to have everything done immediately.
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And I'll tell you, in the medical field, when I first
8:49
started practicing in the early 90s, Mris were just coming out.
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And if somebody had an MRI done, we would wait three or four days
8:58
for the MRI, a report to be mailed to our office.
9:02
Then the fax machines came into being with the glossy paper.
9:06
If you ever saw that, where people would expect the MRI
9:09
report to be faxed to your office within a day or two.
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Now I've had patients when I was proceeding, patients would leave
9:16
the MRI facility, would call my front desk and say, oh, I just
9:19
had my MRI. Do you have the report yet?
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Everyone wants everything done immediately.
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So there's a sense of urgency that you never really shut your
9:28
mind off. You know, with our cell phones
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and our computers, we're constantly, you know, checking
9:37
different apps or text messages or going on to look at emails in
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the middle of the night and stuff like that.
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So the mind doesn't have a chance to rest.
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It's always racing. Make a lot of great points.
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I don't even know where to start with that, but I was thinking,
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you know, yesterday my girlfriend's like we're out of
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Clorox wipes and I was like, cool, order some more.
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I went on Amazon and within literally 15 seconds, ordered
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done at the house the next day. And it's just like, it's so easy
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now. Everything is just at our
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fingertips. It's instant.
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The economy of food now and just, I mean everything,
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everything's being made to be taste better, to last longer, to
10:16
be cheaper, to be mass produced. And to your point, that's not
10:19
really good for us. So in that prior to 1999 when
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Amazon started, think about that example that you just shared,
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Alex, if you were out of Clorox wipes, you would had to get in
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your car, drive to the store, get your 1000 steps in to pick
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up a box of Clorox. That's exactly right.
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OK, now you did it in 15 seconds and you burnt no calories.
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I'm sad to say I was sitting on the couch.
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I'm embarrassed to say that. Yeah, one thing I try to
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challenge myself to do, and I think sometimes I'm good at it
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and sometimes I lose sight of it, is choose the more difficult
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path, choose the challenging path versus the path of least
10:56
resistance. And I think that's true in life,
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but in fitness, right, We see a flight of stairs, you know,
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maybe it's a three story or second two-story type thing.
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It's not a huge lift for somebody that's able, but
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instead we kind of opt for the elevator or the escalator or
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something that's going to be quicker, faster, less steps,
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less energy, kind of optimizing to use as little as energy as
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possible. I think the reality is take the
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damn steps, you know, take, take the path that is not as easy.
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Walk a little bit extra if you can, walk to the coffee shop if
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you can. Those little things add up over
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time. You're absolutely right because
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you know the easy path of taking the elevator, then what you're
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what are you going to do? You're going to be checking your
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phone while you're standing in the elevator.
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And so you think you're being more efficient tonight.
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I'll tell you this as a joke, but you know, when I practiced,
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computers were just starting to come around in the 90s,
11:45
electronic medical records for doctors, etcetera.
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But we still did everything what's compared to relatively
11:51
today the old fashioned way. So I took her a lot of
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professional collegiate and high school athletes and they would
11:57
come to my office and they'd be see me running between rooms
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back and forth, busy as ever. And they'd say, doc, you're in
12:03
great shape, you must work out all the time.
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And I used to joke around to them and I say, you know what I
12:08
do when I have the urge to work out?
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And they'd be like what? I'd say I lay down and wait for
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the urge to go away. That's why I don't get hurt as a
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joke. OK, now I'm in the opposite
12:20
situation because I'm running a worker's comp software company.
12:23
I'm sitting at a desk. Now.
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I make it a point to stand whenever possible, to get up and
12:29
walk around and not just sit at a desk because I just feel like
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I'm nowhere near as active as I used to be when I was seeing
12:38
patients. And I just feel like my my
12:42
flexibility has decreased, my muscle strength has decreased,
12:45
and I've got more increasing low back pain.
12:47
But again, I think as you said, it's important to make a
12:50
conscious effort to be active. It almost seems like we're at
12:56
odd with technology in a lot of ways.
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Like the better the technology gets, it improves our lifestyle
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in a lot of ways and what we have access to and opportunities
13:04
and speed of things. But it also comes with this like
13:07
downfall of we're going to produce our health, potentially
13:11
we're going to be more disconnected from communities.
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Potentially we're going to have more screen time, which is not
13:15
good for us mentally or our eyes.
13:17
It seems like we're at odds with this.
13:19
We want to grow as a civilization and technology
13:22
which hopefully can make the world quote better, but at the
13:24
same time is it also diminishing our quality of life and health
13:28
as well? You're absolutely right.
13:29
I mean, we, we talked a little bit about the physical aspect,
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but there's also the mental health aspect of, you know, not
13:36
being able to turn off. And again, you know, we can
13:39
start a different age groups, but I remember when I was in
13:42
grade school in the Chicago Public Schools and we'd have 5
13:47
or 6 textbooks. We'd have a social studies book,
13:50
a math book, an English book. And when the teacher said, OK,
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we're having a test, a science test on chapters 1-2 and three
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on Friday, you were expected to know what was in that book on
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chapters 1-2 and three. Nowadays young kids are expected
14:06
to be online and, you know, find out the latest information and
14:10
stuff like that, especially at the high school and collegiate
14:12
level. So that never ending quest for
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information is in so many different facets of our life now
14:20
because, and that affects your mental health, you know, it's
14:23
just hard to disengage. And now there's ChatGPT and AI
14:28
too. So it's making people even
14:29
stupider. Probably, you know, it's just
14:31
because now you can go and we see this and I got to tell
14:33
people, don't use ChatGPT for every single thing.
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Some things try to figure out, put some creativity into it and
14:39
then use it as like a creative assistant or someone that can
14:41
help you maybe solve a problem, but people default right to it.
14:45
Oh, I got this thing came up. I don't know ChatGPT, what
14:47
should I do? I always tell people if you are
14:49
using ChatGPT constantly and AI constantly in your job, it's
14:54
only a matter of time for the company goes.
14:55
If all you're doing is using AI, what do we need you here for
14:58
again? And then you're gone and some AI
15:01
agent or a robot is doing your job because you've you're just
15:04
an extension of AI. You know, you're right.
15:06
I mean, I'll share with you, I'm on the board at Elmhurst
15:09
University. And several years ago, maybe
15:12
four years ago, this started to show up on our radar, radar
15:16
where the professors, like students are using ChatGPT to
15:22
generate their papers. Now, I understand there's a way
15:25
for them to tell, you know, there's some type of a label or
15:29
something that they can figure out who wrote the paper versus
15:33
who used AI or ChatGPT. But you know what?
15:37
What are we doing? We're not making the kids, our
15:41
students smarter. We're in a, in a way allowing
15:44
them to, you know, take the easy way out.
15:46
Just like you said, taking an elevator versus walking up some
15:50
stairs, that's the easy way out. So I think that's leading, you
15:54
know, it's, it has a lot of positive values, but it's also
15:58
leading us to making society, you know, stop thinking.
16:03
Yeah, we're optimizing for easy. The problem is I don't think
16:07
humans were made to be operate as easy all the time.
16:10
We're made for challenges and having to put ourselves through
16:13
stuff. So we're not the smartest
16:17
mammal, we're not the largest, we're not the fastest, we're not
16:20
the smartest. But no, from what I've told,
16:24
there's some species, animals that are considered smarter.
16:26
So, you know, but we run the world.
16:29
Why? Because we're good at really
16:31
good at a lot of things. OK.
16:33
You know, we, we're not going to outrun a lion.
16:35
OK, No, definitely not. You know, but we run the world.
16:39
So we just, we, we try to make, we try to make things more
16:43
efficient for ourselves, but sometimes it's to our own
16:46
detriment. Yeah.
16:48
So you work with a lot of athletes when you were
16:50
practicing, right? Yes.
16:51
What was that? College level.
16:53
High school level. Pro level.
16:55
All levels I I took care of starting from, you know, early
16:58
on in my career. I took care of World Cup soccer
17:00
in 1994 at Soldier Field in Chicago.
17:03
And then, you know, I took care of the XFL when they played in
17:06
the original inaugural season. O1.
17:09
I took care of the Chicago Rush, the arena football team, all 13
17:13
years that they played from 2001 to 2013.
17:16
And then taking care of numerous colleges and universities like,
17:19
you know, Chicago State University, IIT, Elmhurst
17:22
University. I'm currently still the team
17:23
position for and on their board and then high schools all over
17:27
Chicagoland area as well as other teams that came and went
17:30
like the Chicago Condors. Before the WNBA, there was the
17:33
ABL, the Women's American Basketball League and I took
17:36
care of the Chicago Condors as well as there was a volleyball
17:39
professional women's volleyball league.
17:41
So I've had a lot of fun in my 30 year career as a sports
17:44
medicine physician. What does the optimal human body
17:47
look like? You know, is it from a health
17:50
like eating, working out? And when you were working with
17:53
athletes, did you see a difference in someone that took
17:55
their diet seriously versus others that didn't?
17:57
Or how did you see that? Yeah, I mean, I, you know,
18:01
optimal body, I would say is a relative term.
18:04
Everybody's different. You know, some people, they can
18:06
work out all they want. They're still going to be obese.
18:09
OK. But you know in general, if you
18:12
do, if you exercise, if you have a healthy diet and you get good
18:16
rest, that's going to help you stay in shape better.
18:20
And so athletes are. Different.
18:22
Sorry to cut you off. Do you think it's possible to be
18:25
obese even though you work out consistently and eat clean and
18:28
healthy? Yeah, yeah, really.
18:30
Some people have a very slow based metabolic rate of BMR and
18:34
you know their body just they don't burn calories and they put
18:37
on weight even if they eat very little.
18:39
So what do you tell that person? You know, everyone's body is
18:43
different. There's, you know, they, there's
18:44
certain things that you just have to accept that you're going
18:46
to be. Some people are super skinny and
18:48
they can eat a lot in their body's metabolic rate is very
18:51
high. And, you know, they just have to
18:53
continue to see what works for them, whether it's to, you know,
18:58
switch diets and intermittent fasting or, you know, avoid any,
19:04
you know, pastas or any carbs and stuff like that.
19:07
So it's kind of hard to say one size or one answer if it's all.
19:10
Yeah, yeah. And my mind always thought
19:13
there's definitely different body structures, right.
19:15
And obviously I'm not a doctor, so preface that with that.
19:18
But I always thought, you know, some people are born skinny,
19:20
muscular, you know, some people are just there's a lot of tall.
19:23
Sure, there's a lot of different body cells and I think
19:25
metabolisms range it seems to be just from observing society.
19:29
But I always thought that if you maybe you were over, maybe you
19:32
were still a little heavier or overweight or bigger, bigger
19:35
bone or whatever we want to say. But if you took care of yourself
19:37
and ate clean and worked out and stayed active, I always thought
19:41
that you would kind of obesity would be hard to, to get to if
19:44
you did all those things. Obesity, not overweight, but
19:48
like obese. Like it'd be hard.
19:49
Like I'm eating clean salad, lean meats, organic, I'm working
19:52
out everyday and then two years later I'm still obese.
19:54
That doesn't seem possible. Well, there is familial obesity
19:59
that can run in certain families.
20:00
But you know what we can do is things to avoid, like super
20:04
sizing our fries at. McDonald's, well, that would be
20:06
not eating healthy then. Yeah, exactly.
20:08
So, yeah. But that's a choice though,
20:10
right? But exactly that's.
20:11
What I'm saying, there are certain things that we can do,
20:14
but there are unfortunately some people that no matter what they
20:17
do, there runs in their family and they're not going to be able
20:21
to, you know, lose a lot of weight.
20:23
And but there are options out there.
20:26
You know, when some of the surgeries and now there's, you
20:28
know, a lot of the medications as well that are effective.
20:31
But I would say that the majority of the people can
20:35
control their body habitus. And do you see from a longevity
20:40
perspective, someone that is in in athletics or sports, how do
20:45
they, you know, age and do they seem to have better overall
20:48
health because they are so active in their sports?
20:51
Or is there downfalls with injuries?
20:53
And like they just put a lot of time and like energy into their
20:57
body. So it's like it's a lot of wear
20:59
and tear over the years. Well, both are true.
21:03
And I'll, I'll tell you, I've said, I've said this to the
21:05
athletes for, you know, many, many years that if you're a
21:09
runner and you're putting in 6080 miles a week, your knees
21:13
are like the tires on your car. Sooner or later they're going to
21:16
wear out, OK? And I would have athletes come
21:20
to my office all the time. And I would say there's a reason
21:22
why there are no professional athletes over the age of 40,
21:27
because the blood supply to your muscles, ligaments, tendons
21:31
starts to deteriorate around the ages of 35 to 40.
21:34
And I would always have the athletes saying, well, what
21:37
about Brett Favre? What about?
21:38
Tom Brady. And LeBron, I say let's, let's
21:42
do this. I'll for everyone athlete that
21:46
you can name that made it to 40, I'll name 100 that didn't make
21:49
it to 40. And for everyone to name after
21:51
that, you owe me $100. Not one person's taking that bet
21:54
yet. Yeah, exactly.
21:54
OK, so there are, you know, the freaks of nature or the people
21:58
that have, you know, great, take great care of their body and,
22:03
you know, have great genes and stuff.
22:04
But by and large, most people, even athletes, your body's blood
22:10
supply and tissues tend to deteriorate sometime between the
22:13
age of 30 and 40, and there's greater chance for breakdown.
22:17
Interesting. That's kind of what I would have
22:18
thought too, Everett. You can't look at the outliers
22:21
and say this one person did this.
22:23
You know, that's kind of the same way in business.
22:24
You're like Elon Musk built. That's like that's one, like
22:27
most people are not building billions of dollars worth of
22:29
business. You know, 85% of new businesses
22:32
fold in the first year. That's the statistic I've heard
22:35
85. I think we looked at this
22:37
recently. I don't think it's quite that
22:39
high, but it is it is high. It is high, yeah.
22:41
And it, it basically goes like it's a lower percent the first
22:43
year or two, but then after year 3510, it's like it gets it's a
22:47
pretty steep slope. Got it.
22:49
Yeah. But it's it's tough.
22:50
It's not easy. Yeah, for sure.
22:52
Lose a lot of sleep. What do you have any thoughts on
22:54
like the last question and we'll get into maybe I want to get
22:56
into a little bit your practice and selling it and going through
22:59
that process. What, what else is important for
23:02
people to know about health that you think they should be
23:03
focusing on that maybe they're not, You know, is it sleep?
23:06
Is it microplastics? Is it, there's a lot of things
23:08
right now that we're we're coming aware of, becoming aware
23:11
of that we didn't know maybe 10/15/20 years ago.
23:14
So, I mean, if I had to say, it's pretty much what we've
23:18
already discussed. You know, that you have to do
23:21
everything within moderation. You know, sometimes you read
23:23
studies that 04 to five cups of coffee are good for you.
23:26
The next day you read a study that a glass of wine is good for
23:28
you. Extreme amount, yeah, extreme
23:30
amount of anything is not going to be good for your body.
23:34
But if you, you know, maintain normal exercise pattern, you
23:39
know, eat healthy, have a, you know, regular sleep cycle.
23:43
I mean, we see it even in medicine that when your sleep
23:46
cycle is disrupted, there's greater errors in physicians.
23:50
A lot of emergency room doctors work overnight shifts and then,
23:52
you know, at a certain age they start to burn out.
23:54
So, you know, I think everything in moderation helps you with
23:58
longevity. I do believe that, you know,
24:01
getting out in nice weather and sunshine is important.
24:04
I, I know personally that when I was working and I get to my
24:09
clinics around 6/15, 6:30 AM and get home around 6:00 PM, it
24:13
didn't bother me as much to because I was pretty basically,
24:17
you know, indoors working 10-12 hours a day.
24:20
But now that I'm no longer practicing and seeing patients,
24:24
you know, the winters get tiring.
24:27
So, you know, they have the condition.
24:30
Be a part of SAD. SAD stands for seasonal
24:33
affective disorder. People do get more depressed in
24:36
June, January, February, March, when it's always gloomy and
24:38
cloudy and cold outside. So, you know, if there's an
24:41
opportunity to get away and, you know, experience good weather or
24:46
to just understand that that's normal in Chicago.
24:50
So if you know that you're going to have three months of pretty
24:53
bad, cold, dark weather, now is the time to get out and enjoy
24:56
the good weather. Yes, always try.
24:58
Yeah. I mean, when there's like 5-6,
25:00
seven days in a row of just like cloud cover and it's kind of
25:04
cold and it's like you can feel it.
25:07
I mean, you just feel it, you know, we're we're made I think
25:09
as humans to to take in some sunshine.
25:11
And when you don't have it for five, 6-7 days, you're start to
25:14
all right, You got to mentally kind of pick yourself up.
25:16
Let's keep going. Let's stay positive.
25:18
Hey, enjoy it. Maybe it's good movie watching
25:20
weather. Maybe you can still get outside,
25:21
bundle up and whatever, but it definitely seems to take a toll.
25:25
I think for some people more than than others.
25:27
But I it's tough because we're all trying to be healthy.
25:32
But then there's all these different studies and researcher
25:35
papers and you know, social media people are talking about
25:38
now you can't eat this and you know, all beef's good for you,
25:40
but only have grass fed actually now grass fed beast's not even
25:43
good for you need to go vegan. You need to do this now.
25:45
You can't even drink out of I was like, OK, I can't drink out
25:48
of plastic water bottles anymore because they're leached.
25:50
You know, they have microplastics, so I switched to
25:52
aluminum cans. Nope.
25:53
Aluminum cans have plastic liners inside of them, so I'm
25:56
screwed there too. I switched to a plastic bottle
25:58
of Whole Foods. I was like, this is a a glass
26:01
bottle of Whole Foods with sparkling water, no additives,
26:04
nothing. I'm like, this is great, right?
26:05
I do some research. I find the lid has a little
26:07
plastic at the top and they say when it tips over and I'm like,
26:10
dude, I can't win with these people, you know?
26:14
Alex, you're overthinking it. This is.
26:15
Maybe I am. Yeah, I probably AM.
26:17
This is what I would say if there was this much research
26:21
available about every single thing out there 80 years ago,
26:26
aspirin would have been illegal according to today's standards.
26:28
They would have said, oh, no, you can't take aspirin, You're
26:31
going to get a stomach ulcer. Yeah, sure, you get a stomach
26:34
ulcer if you take an excessive amount of aspirin, but no one's
26:37
taking aspirin. Like a vitamin, you take it when
26:39
you need it. So again, I think, you know,
26:42
there's just a lot of information out there and sadly,
26:48
from my perspective, especially in the medical field, there's a
26:51
lot of medical information. I, I know when I was seeing
26:55
patients, I would routinely have patients coming in with their,
26:59
you know, they're working for a company and they have back pain
27:02
and you know, I examine them and I tell them, OK, you have a
27:05
lumbar strain, I'm going to have you take some anti
27:07
inflammatories or have you do 2 weeks of therapy.
27:10
And they would start demanding an MRI and I would say based on
27:13
my physical examination, you don't need an MRI.
27:16
And then they would argue with me.
27:17
Well, I googled my symptoms and they said I should get an MRI.
27:21
I said, well, then let doctor Google treat you because then
27:23
you don't need to come see me. OK.
27:26
And so I think with that much information out there,
27:29
everybody's an expert, OK? But what they don't understand
27:33
is that you can have some general guidelines, but not
27:37
everybody needs an MRI. And I would tell them, I was
27:39
like, OK, I'll order an MRI. And if the MRI doesn't show any
27:43
herniated disc or any torn ligaments, I'm going to send you
27:46
back to your regular job. So what do you want me to do?
27:49
You want me to treat the MRI or you want me to treat you as a
27:51
patient? Because Mr. is do not pick up
27:53
back pain. Mr. is pick up structural
27:56
damage. So I've had this conversation
27:58
with hundreds or thousands of people over the year, you know,
28:02
and again, not to be, you know, cynical, but it's just
28:04
unfortunate that a lot of the information that, you know,
28:08
people look up is not what is applicable to them personally.
28:11
Right. I was even looking at my coffee
28:14
maker and it's like it's got a plus.
28:16
Last thing I'll say about this, it's got a plastic lid on there
28:19
and it's like the hot water is coming out and I'm just staring
28:22
at it like this thing, there's no way this is good for me.
28:25
Like, you know, that's probably getting microplastics in the
28:28
car. I don't know.
28:29
But then I'm like, you know, this has been around for decades
28:31
and probably, you know, maybe 50 years by now.
28:34
So maybe I am overthinking it. Maybe it's just, hey, watch what
28:37
you can, do what you can, but don't overthink every aspect
28:39
because you just go through the world and you're like, I can't,
28:42
I got to live in a bubble because it's like everything I
28:44
touch, there's something wrong with it, you know?
28:46
So what? Is there anything exciting
28:49
coming in the world of regenerative disc or, you know,
28:54
back pain, shoulder pan, Those are very common.
28:56
Neck pain, back pain. Pretty much everyone experiences
28:58
that at some point, some people more than others.
29:00
But is there anything with stem cells or any exciting stuff that
29:03
we have that gives people hope to, you know, alleviate some of
29:06
this pain? Yeah, there's actually a lot.
29:08
You know, I will tell you, I started, I finished my residency
29:11
at Cook County Hospital and my training in 1992.
29:15
And I shared with you when MRI's were just starting to come out
29:18
back then and now they're routinely available.
29:20
Likewise, you know, at that time, cortisone shots were like
29:24
the only thing you could offer somebody who had knee pain
29:27
without a meniscal tear for some, you know, arthritis.
29:31
And then now they're the gel injections came Synvisc and
29:35
other companies out there, the hyaluronic acid and then PRP
29:39
started becoming popular about 10-12 years ago.
29:43
And, you know, there's now, you know, people using exosomes,
29:47
which is a new type of treatment for those types of, you know,
29:53
illnesses. So there's a lot of, you know,
29:56
new research being done. I think, you know, certain
30:00
things, I don't want to go in a lot of detail because I'm not an
30:02
expert at it. But I think certain things, if
30:04
you, you know, you see a specialist in that field and
30:07
they'll tell you the pros and cons.
30:08
A lot of those are not covered by insurance.
30:11
But I was just speaking with a physician last week and, you
30:15
know, he was saying that people are, you know, parents when they
30:18
are desperate and their child needs some treatment, they,
30:21
they're trying that for, you know, the condition that he
30:23
brought up was it's not cheap. It's, you know, $8000 of
30:27
treatment. But he's had parents trying it
30:30
for you in autism. And, you know, but I think at
30:33
this point, like I said, there's a lot of research out there and
30:38
I think it's all good. I really do believe that, you
30:41
know, in the 1960s, and I probably should go into specific
30:46
Chicago Bears football pair who shared the story, but cortisone
30:49
shots were used routinely. And I had a, you know, a Hall of
30:54
Famer telling me that he was getting cortisone shots in his
30:57
knees before every game and it basically ended his career.
31:02
Now we know that you should be giving people cortisone shots
31:04
more than a couple of times a year.
31:07
So again, we learned like everything else, medicine is not
31:11
an exact science. And math 2 + 2 is 4.
31:13
There's no other answer. But in medicine, you know, we
31:17
know I can prescribe ibuprofen. Somebody else might like a
31:19
different anti-inflammatory. So there's different ways and we
31:23
learn by doing it. And we've got a lot of good
31:25
research that has told us what is effective.
31:29
But I come back to your original question.
31:31
I do believe that that's why people you know who have hope,
31:36
who have chronic illnesses, because there is a lot of
31:39
options out there now. That's great.
31:41
As a doctor, are you excited about AI and how it can impact
31:44
healthcare? I would tell you my my kids and
31:48
my wife are more excited because they're still practicing.
31:51
Yeah, I'm, I'm on the computer side now with the workers comp
31:55
software. So I I can't say I use it a lot
31:58
to be very candid with. Yeah, got it.
32:00
So let's get to, I appreciate you going down the health rabbit
32:03
hole for a little bit. I think it's everyone's kind of
32:04
curious about it. You got a doctor on for just, I
32:07
know you're not an expert in every single one of these areas,
32:09
but you have a pretty good knowledge overall in a lot of
32:11
these. So you, you had a practice,
32:13
obviously you sold it, right? It was three different
32:15
locations. Yeah.
32:16
What made you want to sell the practice and then, you know,
32:19
retire? And then I want to talk about
32:20
when you retired, how, how did you feel and what led you to
32:23
where you are now? Yeah, So my practice, we I'm a
32:27
sports medicine specialist, but we did sports and occupational
32:30
medicine. We took care of about 700
32:32
companies all over Chicagoland doing strictly workers comp.
32:36
We weren't like an urgent care clinic that took care of a baby
32:39
with diarrhea or somebody with a COVID or, you know, a work comp
32:43
injuries. We'd specialized in workers
32:45
comp. The majority of the doctors and
32:47
providers I hired were musculoskeletal experts and we
32:51
became really good at what we did and so landed a couple of
32:56
very large contracts through RFPs.
32:59
And I probably don't know if I should go into these little
33:03
share names, but anyway. So at this point, so a company
33:05
out of California started calling me trying to buy my
33:08
practice in 2010. I kept saying no, no, no.
33:11
And you know, it's getting harder to practice.
33:13
I I had 82 employees are clinics were were 11 Clinic was open
33:19
7:00 AM till midnight the other was open 7:00 AM till 10:00 PM
33:22
by O'Hare and the third one was in downtown Chicago 7 to 7 five
33:26
days a week plus Saturdays. I was just working harder and
33:29
harder and this company out of California made me an offer.
33:33
I couldn't refuse to sell my practice and retire at a
33:37
relatively young age. So I I did that.
33:40
And you know, after being retired and golfing for a few
33:42
months, winter came in Chicago and had to find something else
33:45
to do. And that's kind of what led me
33:46
to what I'm doing now. Yeah, I want to ask you.
33:49
So I want to get to the, the company, the software company
33:51
now. But before that, when you were
33:53
retired, what did you notice about your mental state level of
33:57
happiness, fulfillment? Was it what you thought it was
34:00
going to be? Was that you mentioned after a
34:01
couple months you're kind of bored?
34:03
I'm curious because I always think like, am I going to retire
34:05
one day? Like I feel like it doesn't
34:06
sound exciting. So that's I'll share very
34:10
candidly here and I'm sure some people will laugh at this, but
34:13
I'll just tell you truly what happened.
34:15
I retired August 1st of 2014. The month of August was great.
34:19
I was, my son was home as soon as he left back to college at
34:23
Duke University. I was like, OK, let me call my
34:27
friends. Let me see if somebody wants to
34:29
play golf tomorrow. Everyone's like, no, I got to
34:31
work. So I had nothing to do.
34:35
And the month of September 2014 was really hard.
34:37
I, and this is the funny part, I actually was drinking four or
34:41
five cups of coffee a day. I was so bored.
34:43
I was watching Judge Judy and Ellen DeGeneres on TV, waiting
34:47
for my wife to get home. And I was like, I'm going to go
34:49
crazy. When I had practice with 82
34:51
employees taking care of 700 companies, you know, open from
34:54
7:00 AM till midnight, I was running 100 miles an hour.
34:58
And that's probably why I was feeling a little burnt out.
35:00
And when they made me an offer I couldn't refuse, I was willing
35:03
to sell my practice. But you don't go from 100 miles
35:06
an hour to 0, Right. OK.
35:09
Retirement is not this destination that when you get
35:12
there, people are, you know, serving you.
35:14
Pina coladas on a beach. Yeah.
35:16
OK. Yeah.
35:17
And I realized two months into retirement that I'm going crazy.
35:22
I got nothing to do. Winter's coming.
35:24
And so fortunately, what I'll, I guess, use that as a segue into
35:28
what I'm doing now. One of my former clients ran a
35:33
staffing agency in Naperville, IL And so my business partner
35:37
Tom and I were golfing. And he said, Raj, we used to
35:39
save so much money on our workers comp costs when we used
35:44
your clinics compared to some of the other providers out there.
35:47
And I've had this idea for a while if we could develop a
35:50
software for employers, we could help business owners, HR
35:55
directors, safety directors save a lot of money.
35:58
And so I said, Tom, why didn't you tell me before I could have
36:01
charged you more? And he jokingly said, well, you
36:04
know, I, I really think we can open up a business.
36:07
So we sat down. He needed my medical expertise
36:10
as a sports medicine physician. How do you take care of a
36:13
rotator cuffed hair? How do you take care of an ankle
36:15
sprain? How do you take care of a
36:16
herniated disc in the back? Who needs therapy?
36:18
Who needs an MRI? Who needs to go to a surgeon, et
36:20
cetera. I wrote the medical algorithms
36:23
on a piece of paper. I don't write code.
36:25
Tom worked with programmers and we built out a very robust
36:29
software. And again, I was still in, you
36:31
know, retirement mode mentally and just doing this for fun,
36:34
keeping me busy during the day. And Fast forward the story here
36:38
we are now in year 8 of this fun retirement project and we now
36:42
have 95 employers in 30 different states using our
36:47
software. So, you know, it's, it's been a
36:49
great ride and I, I really believe that if I had not found
36:53
something to do, it would have affected my mental health.
36:56
And I know I had put on about 10 lbs sitting around drinking
36:59
extra coffee and doing nothing at home.
37:01
So that's kind of how I got to where I'm at right now.
37:04
And the company's called Compcare Pro, Compcorp Pro,
37:07
Comcorp Pro, sorry, I misspoke, Comcorp Pro.
37:11
And you found it obviously with your partner.
37:13
And what did you guys notice? You mentioned one piece of that,
37:16
that he was saving money by going to you guys versus other
37:19
practices. What was broken in the workers
37:22
comp? You know, industry, let's call
37:24
it. So that's going to take a whole
37:26
podcast itself, but I'll, I'll, I'll streamline it, give it to
37:29
us. As the non doctors listening,
37:31
yes. So I'll give you both sides, OK,
37:34
Remember I'm running a busy practice.
37:36
We were seeing 75,000 patients visits per year at my 3 clinics.
37:42
OK, we were high value. We had a lot of clients that
37:45
trusted us and if I ordered an MRI and a patient's shoulder,
37:53
then the insurance company, the adjuster would decide whether
37:57
they would approve it or not. Sometimes they would send it to
37:59
utilization review or peer review and I'd have some doctor
38:03
calling me from Texas or some other state and, you know,
38:06
trying to, you know, discuss or argue with me on the phone that,
38:09
well, I didn't try therapy. I didn't try Prednisone.
38:12
And they're not going to approve the therapy request.
38:15
Now is that because they're going to have to pay for that
38:17
MRI as this insurance companies so they're naturally they're
38:19
like pump the brakes. Do we really need this right?
38:22
OK. And again, I'm not here to knock
38:24
the insurance companies or the adjusters, but that I didn't
38:27
understand what was going on. I had to see my 50 patients a
38:30
day. I was like, well, you know, they
38:32
didn't approve your MRI. We got to try therapy and put
38:34
the patient in therapy and all of a sudden he's not getting
38:37
better. And where he gets a lawyer and
38:39
you know, suddenly they get the MRI done on a lean and it showed
38:43
a rotator cuff tear, which is what I was suspicious of all
38:45
along, why I ordered the MRI. I would have made more money in
38:48
putting them in therapy, but my job was to take good care of my
38:51
injured, my clients and their injured employees.
38:54
And so I saw this movie over and over and I didn't understand
38:57
where the disconnect was in the system.
38:59
Now, Tom was the vice president of risk management for a large
39:03
staffing company. And so Tom saw that on the
39:06
employer side that and he said, Raj, if we could basically
39:11
become a company's de facto medical director, provide
39:16
oversight because most companies, if they're big, they
39:18
may have a safety director, but most companies will default
39:23
workers comp claims to their HR department.
39:25
And the HR directors have a lot of work on their plate.
39:28
They don't have the muscle, the medical expertise to review
39:31
notes and figure out what happened.
39:33
And so they were defaulting then in turn to the insurance
39:37
company. And now the insurance company
39:39
was using their own criteria. They weren't having nurses or
39:44
doctors make determinations. They were leaving it up to their
39:48
software or the adjusters. And these were leading to delays
39:52
and denials. And I never understood this.
39:55
So now when we become, when our clients use our software and we
40:01
become that medical piece. So now our clients tell their
40:05
insurance care that, hey, we have our own medical director
40:08
and if they're recommending to approve or not approve,
40:12
sometimes we have, you know, there's good doctors, there's
40:15
bad doctors. We have doctors that are.
40:17
Ordering tests or ordering therapy for no reason just
40:20
because they have it in their office.
40:21
Sure. If there's nothing on their
40:23
physical examination that indicates that this person needs
40:26
an MRI or needs therapy, we tell them, hey, don't approve this at
40:29
this time. Let's have the patient
40:31
reevaluate it in one week. So we basically are like an
40:35
outsourced medical director for our clients.
40:38
And we've shown our, you know, average client saves in the
40:42
first year. If they follow our algorithms
40:44
and use our software, they cut their workers compensation costs
40:48
by 20 to 30% in the year 1. And so it's just like we don't
40:52
have, you know, anybody out there cold calling or doing
40:56
sales and marketing. It's just our, our software has
40:58
spread by word of word of mouth from different companies.
41:02
So it's been a fun ride and we really feel, truthfully, I
41:06
actually believe I'm helping more people now than I did as a
41:10
doctor. I mean, a lot of people can
41:12
suture up a laceration or diagnose an ankle sprain.
41:16
But I'm now seeing the big picture of the entire claim.
41:20
We have numerous insurance companies and adjusters that
41:22
will frequently tell our team, oh, thank you very much for, you
41:26
know, having Doctor Connor review this or, OK, you know,
41:29
thanks for your recommendation. So, you know, we see when things
41:33
are being people are being inappropriately being denied
41:37
care. Likewise, we see the other,
41:38
other end of the spectrum where patients may have a secondary
41:42
gain motive, you know, either, you know, they're mad at their
41:46
employer, they were disciplined or they have an attorney
41:48
involved or something else. And they're, you know, looking
41:51
to get a, you know, check to sit at home.
41:53
And you know, so we see all sides of the spectrum, but our
41:55
job is to be objective. We don't know anybody.
41:58
We we manage their claim using our software using objective
42:03
criteria. So walk me through how it saves
42:08
them money and who's the customer?
42:09
Is it companies that would have employees that would file
42:12
workers comps claims and, and why are the insurance companies
42:16
OK with you kind of being in that position and saying we're
42:19
going to make the call if they're approved or not?
42:20
Wouldn't they say we're going to make that call because we're
42:22
paying for it? So I'll, you know, give you a, a
42:25
bigger picture example 1st and then I'll focus in on your
42:30
question. So a company can hire, let's
42:33
just say KPMG or Deloitte to audit their financial records.
42:38
Alex, you can hire a company to design your website.
42:43
So employers can hire Comcorp Pro to be their medical
42:47
consultants or medical directors.
42:50
All right. So we provide the medical
42:52
oversight for our clients and the insurance companies.
42:56
Initially years ago they were a little resistant.
43:00
I will tell you now out of all the big carriers, I can only
43:03
think of two that are still a little resistant to allowing us
43:07
to help our clients. But we show that to our client.
43:12
I, I will tell you, just had a company in Rockford, IL last
43:14
week that I sent an example to where their carrier had delayed
43:20
following our recommendations anywhere from one to two months.
43:24
Well, what does that do? That costs the company money.
43:27
If we're saying that an MRI should have been approved on
43:30
August 15th, but the insurance adjuster or insurance company
43:34
doesn't improve till September 15th.
43:36
That injured employee is sitting at home in pain, being paid TTD,
43:41
temporary total disability, collecting a worker's comp
43:44
check, or is going to go to their own doctor or get an
43:47
attorney involved to move their claim along.
43:49
All of this adds more time and more expenses to the cost of
43:54
that claim. So that's we're having our
43:57
expertise as a sports medicine physician with 23 years of
44:02
occupational medicine practice under my belt and our
44:06
algorithms, our team uploads the claims and through our system we
44:11
provide our recommendations. And then once adjusters and
44:13
insurance companies start to see that we're not here to step on
44:16
anybody's toes. We're not trying to call out the
44:19
doctor is over treating or that patient is malingering or that
44:22
adjuster is lazy. There were a lot of disconnects
44:25
in the worker's comp system that truthfully, as a practicing
44:28
physician for 23 years, I didn't understand it.
44:31
But it wasn't my problem because I had fifty people to see
44:33
everyday, right? Tom, my business partner, saw
44:37
those delays on his end when his employees were sitting at home
44:42
waiting for somebody to call them to schedule an MRI for a
44:45
couple of weeks. We've built out this incredibly
44:48
robust software using both of our expertise, and we now
44:52
eliminate a lot of the days. We can't fix every problem, but
44:56
our clients see a tremendous savings and more importantly,
44:59
it's good for that injured employee.
45:01
Nobody. If you've ever had, and I've got
45:03
a bad back, I've got 300 discs, my lower back.
45:05
If you've ever had a rotator cuff tear or a bad back or a
45:09
fracture, it's not fun. I truly believe 95 to 97% of the
45:14
people that came and saw me in my 23 years in practice didn't
45:17
want to get hurt at work. They had better things to do.
45:20
They have to go home and mow their lawn.
45:21
They have to pick up their daughter after school.
45:23
Some people have a second job, so when you get hurt at work,
45:27
it's a major inconvenience to your lifestyle.
45:30
Our job is to help them get the appropriate care cost.
45:33
Effectively. So let me get this right, if
45:35
you're a company that doesn't work with you guys, employee,
45:39
has something happened to them, they go to the doctor, the
45:41
doctor submits some type of claim and then the insurance
45:44
company approves or denies it and that's pretty much it.
45:47
Sometimes they approve things maybe they shouldn't.
45:49
Sometimes there's things that don't get approved that should
45:51
be approved, right? And so it delays treatment.
45:53
You guys are kind of the liaison or the, the leadership over
45:57
this, I'd say, right? And you determine if these
46:00
claims or if the doctor should provide the treatment or not
46:03
provide the treatment. And you oversee all that as a
46:05
trusted advisor. And then you have a software on
46:07
the back end that helps. That is correct.
46:10
We the the software uses the I CD10 medical diagnosis codes and
46:14
that's what the algorithms that our team will upload into the
46:17
claim. But I'll give you 2 quick
46:18
examples. One, we had an acute fracture,
46:22
wrist fracture in Libertyville yesterday that came in last
46:24
night around 6:00 PM. That injured employee with a
46:27
broken wrist is scheduled to see the hand surgeon today at 3:15
46:31
PM OK. That efficiency does not happen
46:34
because most employers will find out about the claim this
46:39
morning. Their HR director will file a
46:40
claim. It'll take a day to five days to
46:44
get a claim number assigned or an adjuster assigned.
46:48
And then that patient will get scheduled to see once.
46:51
Then the adjuster, let's say they're assigned in three days,
46:54
so today's Tuesday. Let's say they get assigned by
46:56
Friday. That adjuster has to track down
46:58
the old medical from Monday, review it, make a determination
47:02
to approve that consultation. We eliminate that delay because
47:06
we are there, our clients de facto medical director.
47:09
OK. The other side of the spectrum
47:11
is, and again, that's an acute injury.
47:13
That's why I brought up that example.
47:15
You know, if it's an ankle sprain, it can wait two days.
47:17
Sure. No one ever died.
47:18
Of ankle sprain. So, but you're right, the system
47:20
is slow. It's slow not because
47:22
necessarily people want to be slow, but it's just a lot of
47:24
people involved. There's touch points.
47:26
There's, yeah. So, so those are the type of
47:29
things that we do for our clients to make sure that their
47:35
injured employees get the appropriate care quickly and
47:39
cost effectively. And again, you know, Healthcare
47:42
is very different. And I'm going to just give you
47:44
some examples, Alex, when you go to your local grocery store, you
47:49
don't take your groceries home, eat them, and then two weeks
47:53
later decide how much you want to pay for them.
47:54
Do you? OK, You don't go sometimes.
47:56
That'd be nice because sometimes you get some strawberries that
47:58
are spoiled. You don't realize it till later.
48:00
Yeah, you don't go to a car dealership, drive your car home,
48:03
and three months later decide if you want to pay for the car,
48:06
right? Well, think about health care.
48:09
You have a card, whether it's your personal health care or
48:11
worker's comp you get sent to, you go to a doctor, you present
48:15
this care card and through three months later, the doctor's
48:20
expected to wait for payment. Just yesterday, I had an e-mail.
48:26
We have a doctor in who did a medical records review for us in
48:29
Augusta, GA in April. Yesterday, he sent me an e-mail
48:33
that he hadn't been paid for his services from April.
48:36
And he's doing us a favor helping this client.
48:40
I sent the adjuster an e-mail, and she apologized.
48:41
I mean, people make mistakes. I'm not here to knock anybody.
48:44
And she said it was an oversight.
48:45
She had submitted it, but she didn't realize to think of
48:48
checking to see if the checkout processed and she was going to
48:50
issue a payment immediately. Now, think about that.
48:53
Nobody waits six months to get paid.
48:55
OK, Yeah, that's crazy. But that's the medical system
48:57
that we're dealing with right now.
48:59
And that's why a lot of the doctors and people who can
49:02
afford it have gone to concierge medicine because they want a
49:06
doctor that they can call if you have an issue with your eye, you
49:08
don't want to wait three months to for an eye appointment.
49:11
OK, so a workers comp that was the one of the flaws in the
49:15
system that I did not understand as a practicing physician.
49:19
But we feel now we have figured out how to eliminate a lot of
49:26
those delays. And I'll and I'll give you one
49:28
more example real quick. Let's just say I examined
49:31
somebody, 55 year old gentleman lifting a 70 LB box in his
49:35
truck, felt a pop in his right shoulder.
49:37
Based on my exam, he's got a limited range of motion weakness
49:41
on his supraspine at his testing and I'm worried about a rotator
49:44
cuff tear. OK, even if everything goes
49:49
smoothly, he gets a claim number in 2 days.
49:52
The adjuster for the insurance company approves the MRI and
49:56
they send that e-mail or fax to my office.
50:02
When I had my office, hypothetically to my office,
50:06
it's sitting on my office fax machine.
50:09
My staff is busy enough getting patients treated all day long.
50:12
They don't have the time to pick up that fax and say, oh, OK,
50:17
John Doe's MRI from that we ordered three days ago got
50:20
approved. Let's figure out where he lives.
50:23
Let's call some place close by and let's get it scheduled,
50:26
right? There's another delay.
50:29
All right, so all we do all of those back office functions for
50:33
our clients and we really have eliminated not only the delays,
50:38
but then, you know, again, coming back to the cost of
50:41
healthcare, you can, we can get you an MRI for $600.00.
50:45
You can go to outpatient or hospital network and you'll get
50:49
a bill for $3000. All right, there's there isn't
50:53
the transparency in healthcare that there is at the grocery
50:56
store. OK, you can go online and you
50:59
can buy a pair of pants and say, well, I'm going to go to the
51:02
other store because they're on sale.
51:03
The same brand is on sale for $20 less healthcare.
51:07
It's kind of a crapshoot. So we now monitor that for our
51:11
clients. There's no pride in overpaying.
51:14
Why would you want to get a $3000 MRI when I can get you the
51:17
same quality or better for $600? Now why wouldn't they be able to
51:22
just show the price if I'm if I go to the hospital, I'll get an
51:24
MRI. What can I say?
51:25
How much is the MRI? Well, you know, and again, I'm
51:28
not here to, you know, to cry poor or anything.
51:32
I've done very well. I'm very fortunate.
51:33
But yesterday on LinkedIn, I, my kids are both in medicine.
51:37
I sent him an article. There was an orthopedic surgeon
51:40
who posted that in 2000 when he started practice.
51:43
I believe he was paid and I can pull up the article on my phone
51:45
and show you he was paid $1800 for hip replacement or a joint
51:50
replacement. I think it was the knee, the
51:51
joint replacement. And now he's paid $1000.25 years
51:56
later, he's paid be paid about 40% less.
51:59
OK, So I forwarded that to, you know, my kids who are in
52:01
healthcare to say, look at this is how the system has changed.
52:04
There are simply too many middle men who are making the money.
52:10
The doctors are not the ones making a lot of money.
52:13
They're spinning their wheels faster and faster.
52:14
They're they're, they're comfortable, OK, but they're not
52:17
the ones making the money. You know, the people who write
52:21
the insurance plans, who are the carriers are the ones that are,
52:27
you know, really, you know, and you know, and I know 25 years
52:31
ago I had a $20 deductible. Now I have a $40 deductible. 25
52:36
years ago, my deductible for my annual deductible is $500.
52:41
Now it's $2000. So, you know, the premiums keep
52:46
going up for employers, the reimbursement for doctors keeps
52:49
going down, and the patients are being forced to pay more out of
52:54
pocket. It's unfortunate.
52:56
It is. There's a lot of patients.
52:58
It's important for the doctors who are really the heroes doing
53:01
the good work to keep people, you know, healthy, that they're
53:03
the, you know, the middle people are taking out more than they
53:06
should. This particular surgeon, I did
53:09
not verify this, I'm just recalling me reading this
53:12
yesterday in his article said it actually costs it costs him more
53:17
to replace the brakes on his car than it does he gets reimbursed
53:21
to do a knee replacement. Wow, that's kind of crazy.
53:27
Yeah. So it makes sense for what you
53:31
guys do, it makes sense for the company, makes sense for the
53:33
patient, for the employee. How does it make sense for the
53:36
insurance company? Because I still go back to,
53:38
wouldn't they just be like, we're going to make the call,
53:40
Raj, we don't want your company telling us what we can approve
53:42
or not approve. How did they get that?
53:43
How do you get past that? Yeah, I'm probably get in
53:47
trouble if there's some insurance company executives
53:48
listening, but I'll just tell you candidly and I'll let you
53:51
decide. Hey, I'm good with it.
53:55
The higher the costs for employer for their medical care,
54:00
higher they charge that employer the future years on your
54:03
premium. OK, let me just simplify it for
54:05
we all have car insurance, OK? Let's say you go to car
54:10
insurance company A and they say, Alex, we're going to sell
54:14
you car insurance for $1000 deductible per accident or per
54:20
claim and it's going to cost you $3000.
54:24
Or you, you go to insurance Company B that says, well we're
54:28
Alex, we're going to give you a 0 deductible policy, but it's
54:32
going to cost you $5000. Let's say you decide you're
54:36
going to go with, you don't want a deductible, you're going to go
54:38
with policy B for $5000. That doesn't mean you're going
54:44
to go rear end a few people because you pay $2000 extra.
54:47
It's not going to cost you money.
54:48
So you're just going to go recover that $2000 you paid by
54:52
rear ending a few people to offset that extra charge,
54:55
correct. Well the same way here.
54:58
If you think about it in a hundredfold dollar example,
55:05
insurance companies charge a large premium for workers comp.
55:08
The higher the rate of injuries. The two things that affect the
55:11
company's premium are frequency. So the number of injuries and
55:16
severity. If you have a lot of finger
55:18
paper cuts, you're OK, but if you start having rotator cuff
55:20
tears or fractures and expensive procedures that need extensive
55:25
rehab or surgeries, your costs go up.
55:28
So the insurance companies charge based on that.
55:31
There's a mod factor without going into a lot of detail, but
55:35
if we can reduce the costs for our clients or, you know, your
55:41
listeners, especially a business owner with 5 or 10 injuries a
55:45
year, the insurance companies then say, OK, well, we got to
55:50
reduce the premiums and then that's less money in their
55:54
pocket. So it's kind of a vicious cycle.
55:56
I'm not saying the insurance companies are all bad.
55:57
We all need insurance. But the system is set up in a
56:00
way that the employers pay a lot of money, especially in
56:05
Illinois. And, you know, I think that
56:09
there are ways to help them. And that's like I said, I
56:11
practice 23 years. I didn't start Compcore Pro
56:13
because I was looking for a job just, you know, dumb luck
56:16
opportunity. And I really believe now that,
56:19
you know, we're helping employers, we have clients with
56:22
as few as you know, 100 employees as large as 17,000
56:26
employees now. And they've, you know, they find
56:28
value in our services And we we also make sure that they're
56:31
injured employees get the appropriate care.
56:35
Well, it seems like you enjoy it and seems like you're really
56:36
helping people, which I think is too good.
56:39
You know, crosses, if you can do something that you love to
56:41
enjoy, to do and it also makes a positive impact and there's a
56:44
good market for it, that's a pretty good business model.
56:47
Yeah, I'm not a good golfer. I enjoy golf, but you know, if I
56:49
play 2-3 days a week, no one ever feel sorry for me when I
56:52
tell them, you know, I can only play G2 or three days a week
56:54
because I have a bad back. They're like, oh, you poor
56:56
thing, only two or three days a week.
56:58
So, but this is, you know, like I said, I just was fortunate I
57:01
fell into this opportunity with, with my business partner and
57:05
I've really enjoyed it. But not only building the
57:07
business, but I really think that, you know, when we show
57:10
these companies how much we're saving them and help somebody
57:14
get the appropriate care quickly, it's, it's rewarding.
57:17
You know, I don't have to be on the front line seeing all the
57:19
patients, but I feel like we can help.
57:23
I can still help people and the small little company is helping
57:26
a lot of employers. That's great.
57:28
What made you want to get into the healthcare industry?
57:32
You know, I think I was always good at math and science growing
57:34
up. And, you know, I wasn't really
57:36
good at writing papers and like reading all those the Russian
57:39
Revolution, all those books when I was an undergrad.
57:41
But so I was, I was good at that.
57:43
And so I got into medicine and, you know, this is just an
57:47
extension of what I'm doing. And like I said, and I, I give
57:50
my business partner a lot of credit for coming up to this
57:53
idea. He, you know, he again, he was
57:56
back before Uber, if you can remember 2007, he would send
58:01
people in a $6070 Uber ride or in a taxi ride to come to our
58:06
offices. And I could never understand it.
58:07
Like, Tom, this guy's got an ankle sprain.
58:09
Why are you sending a mirror? You can do his rehab up in
58:11
Waukegan. I still remember these
58:12
conversations. And he's like, OK, I just want
58:15
to make sure that they were diagnosed correctly.
58:17
And I never understood what he was doing until after I retired.
58:20
But he just got tired of certain clinics that he used in certain
58:24
areas, putting everybody in therapy, then after a month
58:27
finding out that the person had a rotation, Peter Kafter.
58:30
And now he's already paid $5000 for therapy, and it's gonna cost
58:34
him more. And so he just started trusting
58:35
me. So he felt that if we could
58:37
develop a software for employers, we could help a lot
58:41
of companies save money. And we spent a lot of money to
58:44
build out our software. It didn't know where this was
58:48
going. And here we are.
58:50
And you know, you're aid of this fun project in retirement.
58:52
I, I really enjoy it and I really think, you know, we can
58:55
help a lot more people if we wanted to grow.
58:58
Sounds like it. Do you think you'll ever retire?
59:00
I tried that once and I kind of remember that one month where I
59:03
was going crazy. So I think, you know, you have
59:05
to wake up with a purpose. I, I, I try not to trade my time
59:10
for more money. I, I'm constantly being offered
59:12
opportunities for consulting and other things, but I always look
59:16
at him like, well, how much of my time is it going to take?
59:19
And you know, I, I've got a, we've got a great staff and
59:24
office crew in our office in Downers Grove.
59:27
And you know, they do a great job.
59:29
So I tell them it's not really about me anymore.
59:32
It's about them, You know, if they decide they don't want to
59:34
anymore, we can turn off lights and go home.
59:36
But I really think if they decide to grow this, this could
59:39
be a, a windfall opportunity for a lot of people.
59:42
And we'll be helping more people.
59:43
So I, I don't have any plans to just retire per SE.
59:48
I think if I could find another doctor to help me with some of
59:54
the day-to-day stuff, that would be great.
59:56
If not, you know we've got a great crew and they they make my
59:59
life easy. Roger, I appreciate you coming
1:00:02
on the show and doing this. It's awesome to hear what you
1:00:04
guys are doing. You're doing a lot of good in
1:00:05
the world, so really cool. Thank you for having me.
1:00:07
Absolutely my pleasure. Where can people go to find you,
1:00:10
connect with you, learn more about what you guys do, or
1:00:12
potentially be a customer? Sure if it's OK for me to get my
1:00:15
e-mail address and our office number.
1:00:17
It's Comcorp Pro All word COMPCOR.
1:00:22
Epro.com is our website or you can always call our office at 7
1:00:28
O 8547 3555. And you're on LinkedIn too, so.
1:00:35
I am on LinkedIn, that's how we met.
1:00:36
So thank you Alex for having me. It was.
1:00:38
Yeah, my pleasure. We will link everything up in
1:00:40
the description notes. So people can do they want to go
1:00:43
right to your website or give you guys a call, they can do
1:00:45
that. Thanks again for being on the
1:00:47
show. Appreciate.
1:00:47
It thank you. Thanks.