Latest / The Bold Lounge / Mita Mallick: Bold Choices, Inclusive Voices- Your Story Matters

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Mita Mallick: Bold Choices, Inclusive Voices- Your Story Matters · The Bold Lounge

• 0:08
  Leigh Burgess: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:10
  Leigh Burgess: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Leigh Burgess: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  Leigh Burgess: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Leigh Burgess: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  Leigh Burgess: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:35
  Leigh Burgess: Whether they face challenges or douse along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  Leigh Burgess: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Leigh Burgess: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:50
  Leigh Burgess: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:52
  Leigh Burgess: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Leigh Burgess: Today I am excited to have Meeta Malik.
• 1:03
  Leigh Burgess: She is the head of DEI of CARTA and also the author of an upcoming book Reimagine Inclusion.
• 1:08
  Leigh Burgess: Welcome.
• 1:09
  Leigh Burgess: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:11
  Leigh Burgess: I'm so excited to kind of jump right into the definition of bold.
• 1:14
  Leigh Burgess: Obviously, you're an author, you're leading a very important initiative in your role and also you have your own podcast.
• 1:21
  Leigh Burgess: Yes.
• 1:22
  Mita Mallick: I do, in fact I do, yeah, yeah.
• 1:24
  Leigh Burgess: I didn't introduce you as that, but you have a very incredible podcast which has a huge following, thank you.
• 1:29
  Leigh Burgess: And so what is your definition of bold?
• 1:33
  Mita Mallick: I think, the changes throughout our lives.
• 1:34
  Mita Mallick: I think our stories are constantly being rewritten.
• 1:37
  Mita Mallick: For me, right now, in this season, it is about finding my power, claiming my power, owning it and holding on to it.
• 1:45
  Mita Mallick: That has been in this season of my life and career.
• 1:49
  Leigh Burgess: So finding, claiming and holding on to it is bold for sure.
• 1:53
  Leigh Burgess: And realizing that our story changes.
• 1:55
  Leigh Burgess: And I love how you said it's your season.
• 1:57
  Leigh Burgess: Like you know, we do go through different parts of our life.
• 2:02
  Leigh Burgess: Like you know, if we think about our 20s, 30s, 40s I'm using age as a season, but it doesn't have to be age.
• 2:07
  Leigh Burgess: It could be you know different experiences of your story, right, your story.
• 2:11
  Leigh Burgess: That's uniquely yours, absolutely so when you think about your definition of bold and kind of claiming and finding, claiming and holding on to who you are and that it's important, when was the first time you remember using that definition in your life Gosh probably many times, but I would say as an adult, I was in a incredibly toxic bullying relationship at work with a then former boss, and I let that wear me down for too long.
• 2:45
  Mita Mallick: I was telling someone recently it's like you give pieces of yourself away and then at the end you're left with nothing and you're trying to heal and reclaim all those pieces of yourself back.
• 2:55
  Mita Mallick: I was proud of myself that when I ultimately resigned in a conversation where I felt this person again was continuing to gaslight me, I can't believe you're resigning you.
• 3:05
  Mita Mallick: I've been nothing but kind to you.
• 3:07
  Mita Mallick: And so finally I was like that's not true and I started to go into some of the things that had experienced working for this person.
• 3:15
  Mita Mallick: I think they were taken aback because when bullies are confronted, they're usually surprised when they've been bullying for so long, but the person, the target, is actually now standing up for themselves.
• 3:26
  Mita Mallick: And so that was a moment that I was proud of myself, that I didn't, as I walked out the door, allowed that to continue to happen, that I reclaimed my power.
• 3:37
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, so I bet there's a lot of listeners that can connect with feeling like they're in that type of environment, right?
• 3:43
  Leigh Burgess: They're in a toxic environment.
• 3:44
  Leigh Burgess: They're in an environment where they're not valued.
• 3:47
  Leigh Burgess: They might be in an environment where they know they're really good at their job, but for some reason they're being told, or not.
• 3:52
  Leigh Burgess: Yes, you know like this perceived poor performance.
• 3:56
  Leigh Burgess: It was like I know.
• 3:57
  Leigh Burgess: I'm rocking it right now and you're telling me, I'm not so, again the gas letting.
• 4:01
  Leigh Burgess: So when you get to that point, it's being aware of it right, because when it's happening, initially you're just kind of well, maybe I need to do something different, or maybe I need to approach.
• 4:12
  Leigh Burgess: Sometimes we think internally at least I do like what could I do differently, better?
• 4:16
  Leigh Burgess: I'm sure there's something they need to do too, but I always think I got to start with me.
• 4:19
  Leigh Burgess: So when people are noticing that moment of this doesn't feel right, this doesn't feel healthy, what are some of those indicators they should look for?
• 4:29
  Mita Mallick: that you maybe felt I'll talk about it in the workplace specifically, but clearly we can have toxic personal relationships, friends, family and our community, so this idea of toxicity can be anywhere in our lives.
• 4:42
  Mita Mallick: For me, actually, it was really interesting.
• 4:45
  Mita Mallick: I went from the office pet to the office threat.
• 4:47
  Mita Mallick: It is not something I have coined.
• 4:49
  Mita Mallick: It's well documented and researched by a black woman who has put out a lot of research and thoughts around this.
• 4:56
  Mita Mallick: And so what that means is that now I don't identify as black, but I do identify with the black community, and actually on our podcast, brown table talk that I do with my friend DC Marshall, we talked about this topic, and so what that meant is that I was the shining star for this person who had hired me on their team and then, all of a sudden, as I was shining and doing well and doing all the things you think you're supposed to do well, if I look good, my boss looks good and the company looks good this is why you hired me for my expertise and then, over time, I became a threat to this individual and that's when the bullying and the gaslighting started.
• 5:29
  Mita Mallick: And so what those things can look like is and let me just take a step back and give a definition of what I think gaslighting is.
• 5:37
  Mita Mallick: It is something that was coined in the 1970s.
• 5:40
  Mita Mallick: There's a very famous movie about it, but it's really like if we were sitting next to each other recording this podcast and I slapped you across the face and you said why did you just slap me across the face?
• 5:51
  Mita Mallick: And I said I didn't do that.
• 5:52
  Mita Mallick: And so I use that as like a very clear example of what it is.
• 5:56
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, I mean, you're like I didn't do that.
• 5:57
  Mita Mallick: You're like, but you did, and I'm like no, I didn't.
• 6:00
  Mita Mallick: And I stare, look at you smiling or just look at you dead in the eyes, and I'm like I did not slap you across the face.
• 6:05
  Mita Mallick: You just imagine that.
• 6:06
  Mita Mallick: So it's really, especially in when it's between the employee and the boss, it can be a form of psychological abuse.
• 6:12
  Mita Mallick: It is the abuse of power and privilege and you are trying to alter this person's sense of reality, to diminish their self worth.
• 6:20
  Mita Mallick: They start to question I started to question everything that was happening, like am I the one imagining all of these things?
• 6:28
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, and so it would.
• 6:28
  Mita Mallick: It would be things like I never approved that, I never said that it would be, maybe privately telling me I am never going to get promoted here.
• 6:39
  Mita Mallick: No one else will ever hire me saying terrible things to me in private but then in public saying, oh, me is on her way to becoming a VP.
• 6:45
  Mita Mallick: She's amazing.
• 6:47
  Mita Mallick: It would be excluding me from meetings.
• 6:49
  Mita Mallick: It would be saying, yes, I want you to come and present your proposal Wednesday at 10am and I would wait and wait and wait and text and figure out where this meeting was.
• 6:59
  Mita Mallick: Never get the invite.
• 7:00
  Mita Mallick: It was like it never happened.
• 7:02
  Mita Mallick: And then a leader would maybe the next day call me and say, oh, like your proposal was great, your boss said you were on vacation and couldn't attend.
• 7:09
  Mita Mallick: So all sorts of things start to happen that start to escalate.
• 7:14
  Mita Mallick: I think also when you can be the target of bullying at work, those individuals in power are very good at isolating individuals.
• 7:21
  Mita Mallick: So interesting thing is, where there's smoke, there's fire.
• 7:23
  Mita Mallick: I think after the fact, years later, I was like, wow, there were other people going through this at work too, but we didn't realize right, we weren't talking about it because we had become so isolated from each other.
• 7:34
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, it's kind of one of the tactics with us, right?
• 7:38
  Leigh Burgess: Actually, that's how they succeed at it.
• 7:40
  Mita Mallick: Absolutely.
• 7:41
  Leigh Burgess: And it serves their purpose, whatever that purpose is.
• 7:44
  Leigh Burgess: I'm going to say that part out other than just it's all about them.
• 7:49
  Mita Mallick: Well, I think hurt people, hurt people, right?
• 7:51
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, not to go deep on a psychologist, but when you lash out and you want to hurt someone else and cause so much pain, there's something inside you that's causing you to do that, some trauma that you haven't healed from.
• 8:03
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah.
• 8:04
  Mita Mallick: Yes, we bring that to our workplaces with us, whether we realize it or not.
• 8:07
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, so when we think about kind of reclaiming that, finding it first of all like you had to you know it sounds like you're finding it again because it had gone away what does that look like, that whole process of finding, reclaiming and holding on like?
• 8:20
  Leigh Burgess: Kind of walk me through that, because I visualize like a process map there.
• 8:24
  Mita Mallick: I don't know if there's a process, except it's like everyday steps.
• 8:27
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, when you walk away from my example, from a very toxic situation, how do you find those pieces of yourself again?
• 8:36
  Mita Mallick: And it's day by day, reminding yourself of the things you're good at, focusing on those things, having people around you who love you, your community who lifts you up to tell you, yes, you are good at these things, finding a new place where you can make impact and whatever you choose to do.
• 8:53
  Mita Mallick: And so I think it's slowly, over time, it's like not one big thing that happens, but every single day just being re-grounded, re-centered and reminding yourself of the impact you can make and the power that you have.
• 9:07
  Mita Mallick: But when it's been taken away and you've been silenced for so long and you've been diminished and been made to feel invisible, it's hard.
• 9:17
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, I think the healing is a process, it's not overnight?
• 9:21
  Leigh Burgess: It is not.
• 9:23
  Leigh Burgess: I left a job without having a job because it just had become.
• 9:27
  Leigh Burgess: I was burnt out and I think some of the burnout came from the toxicity.
• 9:32
  Leigh Burgess: But I think, regardless, I made the decision and I realized that I couldn't just jump right into something new.
• 9:37
  Leigh Burgess: I needed to actually pause for a second and I need to come back into me.
• 9:41
  Leigh Burgess: I need to be me again, you know, Cause I just didn't feel like me.
• 9:44
  Leigh Burgess: So I think that's the one thing I want listeners to realize is like it's not an overnight, Like, oh, I went to the spa and I did just hair and this or that.
• 9:50
  Leigh Burgess: I was like, well, great, you know, reading a good book on a weekend isn't gonna take you from Friday to Monday and you're better.
• 9:56
  Leigh Burgess: Like it's a process.
• 9:57
  Mita Mallick: It takes time, yeah, and sometimes things can trigger you and bring you back to those moments even when you feel like you've healed.
• 10:02
  Mita Mallick: But part of when we talk about, for me, writing has been healing.
• 10:07
  Mita Mallick: Ask me why I write so much.
• 10:08
  Mita Mallick: It's my superpower.
• 10:09
  Mita Mallick: I always joke.
• 10:11
  Mita Mallick: I don't have hobbies, I don't bake, I don't ski, I don't paddle board, I don't really like to travel my husband makes me go places but I love my family, friends, my kids and I love writing and so there's a lot of healing.
• 10:22
  Mita Mallick: And even you, when doing your podcast and the conversation we're having right now, like it's amazing.
• 10:27
  Mita Mallick: It's a vehicle for storytelling and there's healing.
• 10:30
  Mita Mallick: People will listen to this and say, oh my God, that's my story, her story is my story, and then you feel just a little less alone, a little less alone.
• 10:39
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, there's so much power in story, right, and the power of writing.
• 10:42
  Leigh Burgess: You're actually creating that story.
• 10:44
  Leigh Burgess: You're creating or sharing or inspiring someone through your lived experience.
• 10:49
  Leigh Burgess: You know from the type of book that you wrote.
• 10:52
  Leigh Burgess: So you wrote Reimagined Inclusion, which comes out October 3rd.
• 10:57
  Leigh Burgess: So I'm super, super excited for everyone to get that.
• 10:59
  Leigh Burgess: The information to pre-order is in the episode notes.
• 11:02
  Leigh Burgess: But tell me a little bit about how like did you set out to write that book?
• 11:07
  Leigh Burgess: When you say you were writing Like, were you just writing in the sense of like?
• 11:10
  Leigh Burgess: I want to get this out, cause a lot of journaling and those types of things that's considered writing Up of course.
• 11:17
  Mita Mallick: So the book is called Reimagined Inclusion debunking 13 myths to transform your workplace, and it's available for pre-order on Amazon right now, so hope you'll go check it out.
• 11:25
  Mita Mallick: My mother reminded me I've been writing ever since I could pick up a crayon.
• 11:29
  Mita Mallick: Okay, I always wanted to write.
• 11:31
  Mita Mallick: I remember being the proud co-editor of my fifth grade elementary school newspaper.
• 11:36
  Mita Mallick: I wrote a screenplay in high school that was like my version of like the big fat Indian wedding.
• 11:41
  Mita Mallick: And then I went to undergrad and I had a friend when I graduated.
• 11:45
  Mita Mallick: One of my best friends helped me find an agent and I wrote three novels yes, novels that have not been published.
• 11:52
  Mita Mallick: But you know, I was young and stubborn back then and so I'd write the first novel and I'd get feedback and from editors at big, big publishing houses and I'd say, well, I don't want to change this, I'll just write another novel.
• 12:03
  Mita Mallick: And I wrote three novels.
• 12:05
  Mita Mallick: My agent dumped me in a very mean way over email, and so then I thought, what am I going to do with my life?
• 12:10
  Mita Mallick: Like, I still love writing, but I don't think writing is going to pay the bills.
• 12:12
  Mita Mallick: So I went to get an MBA because there was a very strong connection between storytelling and marketing.
• 12:18
  Mita Mallick: So I went to get my MBA and, would you believe, I wrote a fourth novel and I tried to find an agent.
• 12:24
  Mita Mallick: Couldn't get it published.
• 12:25
  Mita Mallick: And then I moved a year ago and I'm like looking through boxes.
• 12:29
  Mita Mallick: I had like another nonfiction proposal.
• 12:31
  Mita Mallick: Let me tell you, I've always wanted to write and be an author and I buried the seed of writing.
• 12:37
  Mita Mallick: I just buried it away Like this is never going to happen for me, and what happens when you bury a seed?
• 12:41
  Mita Mallick: It starts to grow whether you realize it or not, and so it always just kept coming back to me and finding me.
• 12:46
  Mita Mallick: So I've been writing for a very long time.
• 12:48
  Mita Mallick: I'm not an overnight success.
• 12:50
  Mita Mallick: I wrote this book four years ago.
• 12:51
  Mita Mallick: It took me a very long time to get published and I got a lot of interesting feedback on the way, but I wanted to really put a book out there, knowing that there's lots of good books on leadership, culture, inclusion, what could I meet?
• 13:05
  Mita Mallick: Amal, like, add to the marketplace, like what would be different.
• 13:07
  Mita Mallick: And I wanted to say all the quiet parts out loud of all of these myths and stories we hold on to in our workplaces that actually hold us back from making progress.
• 13:15
  Mita Mallick: And so that's why I wanted to put out the book.
• 13:17
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, so a lot of things in there.
• 13:20
  Leigh Burgess: So what were your first four novels about?
• 13:24
  Mita Mallick: They were about being a bicultural, being trapped between two cultures, being trapped between you know I'm the proud daughter of Indian immigrant parents, born and raised in the US with my younger brother but what it means to be bicultural and how you're trapped between Indian culture and American culture, and so those novels had those themes in them.
• 13:43
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, so each one of those, do you think that they at least getting it out and getting it written?
• 13:48
  Leigh Burgess: And obviously that's a talent, oh, thank you.
• 13:50
  Leigh Burgess: In an area of expertise of like getting it out and then gaining it to?
• 13:54
  Leigh Burgess: You know where you started this book Reimagine Inclusion.
• 13:57
  Leigh Burgess: Do you think it helped?
• 13:59
  Mita Mallick: Absolutely.
• 13:59
  Mita Mallick: I appreciate that.
• 14:01
  Mita Mallick: You say I'm talented in writing.
• 14:02
  Mita Mallick: I am, I enjoy it, it's my superpower.
• 14:05
  Mita Mallick: But it's also half-disciplined, right, writing is half art, half-disciplined, and so the more you write, the better you get at it.
• 14:11
  Mita Mallick: So I've been writing for a very long time.
• 14:13
  Mita Mallick: So when people say, oh, my God, you have a book coming out, or look at your LinkedIn following and how much content you put out, I write every.
• 14:20
  Mita Mallick: I enjoy it too.
• 14:22
  Mita Mallick: Right, I'm at this point in my life where I want to only do things that spark joy as much as I can.
• 14:26
  Mita Mallick: It doesn't always happen that way, but I do it because I enjoy it.
• 14:31
  Mita Mallick: I'm not someone who enjoys video as much.
• 14:34
  Mita Mallick: I do it.
• 14:34
  Mita Mallick: But you won't see me on TikTok, and that's great.
• 14:36
  Mita Mallick: If that's someone else's jam and they're really good at it, that's great, that's their superpower.
• 14:42
  Mita Mallick: Right, but I write like 20 minutes a day.
• 14:44
  Mita Mallick: Some of it will never see the light of day and that's okay.
• 14:47
  Mita Mallick: I do it really because I enjoy it, and what I've discovered over the years is we talked about what does it mean to be bold?
• 14:53
  Mita Mallick: Part of reclaiming my power was also to be sharing the things I've been through, and through that I've been able to build community and conversation, which has been really powerful.
• 15:04
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, and that's healing in itself too.
• 15:05
  Leigh Burgess: Yes, it is Absolutely being able to kind of like, okay, I can actually talk about that now and it doesn't trigger me, or I can help someone, or I know that that thought came up and I don't need to stick with it, it can go away, like you said, I really do think that's part of the journey too, of the story is like helping others go through it, understanding it.
• 15:23
  Leigh Burgess: Yes, I realize that each journey is different, you know, and how you experienced it versus how they experienced it, it may have some similarities, but it's still their personal journey, so that doesn't change.
• 15:34
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, so I definitely think you know, from the perspective of being able to talk about your writing, it's intentional and it's disciplined.
• 15:41
  Leigh Burgess: It's luck.
• 15:43
  Mita Mallick: No you know, say, oh, you're lucky, I'm like I earned it.
• 15:48
  Mita Mallick: I earned it.
• 15:48
  Mita Mallick: There's always a little bit of luck in things, but honestly it's the hard work you put behind it.
• 15:52
  Mita Mallick: When it's like when luck meets opportunity right, this thing is collide together.
• 15:57
  Leigh Burgess: Exactly 100%.
• 15:58
  Leigh Burgess: It's also the belief that you can.
• 16:00
  Leigh Burgess: I wrote a post today around belief versus hope, like, oh, I hope I can write a book, I hope I can get that job.
• 16:06
  Leigh Burgess: I hope Well, hope away.
• 16:08
  Leigh Burgess: You're going to have to act on it.
• 16:09
  Leigh Burgess: That's what I think.
• 16:10
  Leigh Burgess: Belief is active, right.
• 16:12
  Leigh Burgess: I love that.
• 16:12
  Leigh Burgess: It's passive, so like you believed you could do it, and obviously you were doing it, but it wasn't exactly where you wanted it to be or the way that you wanted it.
• 16:21
  Leigh Burgess: So one of the things that was bold in your journey, right there, was like it's just not going to be their novel, it's my novel.
• 16:28
  Leigh Burgess: They don't like that.
• 16:28
  Leigh Burgess: I don't want to change it.
• 16:29
  Leigh Burgess: Now, you know there's probably a dial on that, right.
• 16:32
  Mita Mallick: Yes, there is.
• 16:33
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, there is, especially when you're earlier on in your career and you don't want to get that feedback.
• 16:38
  Mita Mallick: Listen, yeah, feedback is a gift.
• 16:41
  Mita Mallick: Right, feedback is a gift and you can keep it, you can exchange it, you could take it, you could do whatever you want with it.
• 16:45
  Mita Mallick: But I also say, like, when you hear the same sort of things from people, maybe you can stop and listen and there's a balance to that.
• 16:54
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, there's a balance to that.
• 16:55
  Leigh Burgess: And I think that's a good role in our team.
• 16:56
  Leigh Burgess: Like if we talk about three times like we need to meet about it.
• 16:58
  Mita Mallick: Yes, then something's happening.
• 17:00
  Leigh Burgess: Something's off.
• 17:01
  Leigh Burgess: You know, we're not figuring it out just by having a quick conversation or a quick call.
• 17:04
  Leigh Burgess: We need to sit down and give it some time.
• 17:06
  Leigh Burgess: So like, yeah, if you do get that feedback and I think that comes also with experience of our life I always say I just wish I knew that when.
• 17:14
  Leigh Burgess: But at the same time I'm glad I learned it, because if I didn't actually go through something I wouldn't even understand it right, I wouldn't understand the vantage point.
• 17:23
  Leigh Burgess: So there's kind of the yin and the yang of experience, and time is that it takes time to actually to succeed and get some of the things that you want.
• 17:32
  Leigh Burgess: And I think sometimes in the world we live in, people want things instantaneously and I can be guilty of that but they don't want to work for it, they don't want to put the intention into it or the discipline.
• 17:41
  Mita Mallick: Well, yeah, I mean, we live in a world now where everyone wants things to be microwavable in 30 seconds or less, or, while we're talking, let me pick up my phone and order a Chipotle burrito bowl.
• 17:50
  Mita Mallick: It'll be here in the time we finish.
• 17:52
  Mita Mallick: And with this instant gratification and that, the way in which we've been raised, and then also how our children are being raised, which is something I think about a lot.
• 18:02
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, like I said, I'm not an overnight success.
• 18:04
  Mita Mallick: I put a lot of hard work and effort and it's all the little things that added up to what seems like the big thing, which is what coming out, but there's a lot of work behind it.
• 18:13
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, so when you think about the process for the book and I'd love to hear some of the pieces that came in the researching the myths yeah, you know, with the myths that are out there around inclusion and sometimes I get impatient and frustrated with we know better, we know this can't be the right way to do something, or we know that that's actually not true, but we keep doing it.
• 18:32
  Leigh Burgess: No did that come through in some of the myth definitions and some of the things that you found out with the book?
• 18:38
  Mita Mallick: So I, like I said, I've been working on the book for a while and, for anyone who's listening, if you've ever heard of this or done this, I encourage you to do it.
• 18:45
  Mita Mallick: I have career journals and so I write down a lot of the experiences I've had in my career and I document them.
• 18:51
  Mita Mallick: So that was part of you know, having had a long career.
• 18:54
  Mita Mallick: To go back to some of those ideas, and also being a writer writing for Harvard Business Review, adweek, fast Company, those are some of the pieces I've been putting out over the years, watching what's happening in the marketplace.
• 19:05
  Mita Mallick: So there was the collection of stories, the data, the insights, putting them all together, and I wanted to debunk myths and really give leaders a practical way to think about things.
• 19:17
  Mita Mallick: So one of my myths there's 13.
• 19:20
  Mita Mallick: 13 is my lucky number, that's why it's 13.
• 19:22
  Mita Mallick: People might ask why 13?
• 19:24
  Mita Mallick: There's more than 13.
• 19:24
  Mita Mallick: Maybe they'll be a sequel.
• 19:25
  Mita Mallick: But so the myth that we believe all women will become mothers, that by extending maternity leave or parental leave, which we should actually be calling it I call it in the book that that's what it takes to build an inclusive culture for women and the bias I've heard over my career, you know.
• 19:42
  Mita Mallick: And the motherhood penalty.
• 19:44
  Mita Mallick: That's well, very well researched, that I include in the book the motherhood penalty versus the fatherhood premium.
• 19:49
  Mita Mallick: So for every child my husband has had, he is more stable, committed, more ambitious.
• 19:56
  Mita Mallick: He'll actually get paid more for each child he has, whereas for each child I've had I'm just to the shoveled mess right, like I am less ambitious, I'm less committed.
• 20:05
  Mita Mallick: All those things that we put upon women and really talking about like building an inclusive culture for mothers working outside the home is more than just leave and really talking to leaders about that and providing actionable tips.
• 20:20
  Mita Mallick: But the other thing I take on this myth is gendered ageism, which we don't talk a lot about.
• 20:22
  Mita Mallick: Women never seem to be the right age at work.
• 20:24
  Mita Mallick: It's probably that one year that you were the golden age.
• 20:27
  Mita Mallick: Right, you're either too young or you're too old.
• 20:28
  Mita Mallick: And the bias, the biases where it's like oh, I don't know if me to has the energy to keep up with the pace here.
• 20:36
  Mita Mallick: What does that mean?
• 20:37
  Mita Mallick: I don't know if Mita has the level of professional maturity to put her in front of a customer, right.
• 20:44
  Mita Mallick: And so it's like oh, mita has all these years of experience, so we're labeling her old, or Mita seems young and sounds young and dresses young, or whatever we might say.
• 20:53
  Leigh Burgess: It's kind of like an avocado.
• 20:54
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, you know, it's like we're way more mature, it happens, yeah, you are.
• 21:01
  Leigh Burgess: That golden age Like it was probably for me was in.
• 21:03
  Leigh Burgess: I was 42.
• 21:04
  Leigh Burgess: Like I feel like everything.
• 21:05
  Leigh Burgess: But I had gotten to a role.
• 21:07
  Leigh Burgess: I was chief.
• 21:08
  Leigh Burgess: I was a chief research operations officer at 42.
• 21:12
  Leigh Burgess: And that's pretty great.
• 21:13
  Leigh Burgess: But then I was like what's next?
• 21:14
  Leigh Burgess: What's next?
• 21:15
  Mita Mallick: And then I was like, well, that's it, you're there and I'm like OK, and so you know I talk a lot about in the book, about the different standards we have for men versus women.
• 21:25
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, these are not conversations we have about men, or these are not stereotypes or biases we have in our head that then we either knowingly or unknowingly act upon at work.
• 21:35
  Mita Mallick: Right, and those small everyday decisions and the really big decisions, and so that's one of the ways in which I try to really debunk the myth with, of course, a powerful story because I love storytelling of examples of things that have happened in our workplaces and why they're not true or how they could have a different ending.
• 21:53
  Leigh Burgess: What is your hope that, once we know that it is a myth?
• 21:56
  Leigh Burgess: What will individuals and organizations do differently in moving forward?
• 22:01
  Mita Mallick: I love that question.
• 22:02
  Mita Mallick: We are all chasing inclusive cultures.
• 22:05
  Mita Mallick: I don't think I've met a single leader who doesn't say they don't want their culture to be inclusive.
• 22:09
  Mita Mallick: But here's the thing we make up the culture.
• 22:11
  Mita Mallick: It's like when we talk about the employee and the company, they're not two different things, they're one and the same.
• 22:16
  Mita Mallick: And so how I meet as a leader, show up every day at work, matters.
• 22:21
  Mita Mallick: It matters a lot, because how I show up has a ripple effect on my team, my colleagues, cross-functional partners, throughout the organization.
• 22:30
  Mita Mallick: And so if we each just showed up differently tomorrow, thought about one thing we were going to do different, imagine the ripple effect we'd have.
• 22:37
  Mita Mallick: And so one of the things I talk about in Reimagine Inclusion is that we can have the systems and processes in place to do right by our people, our company, but it all comes down to the individual and how we act in that moment.
• 22:50
  Mita Mallick: So I'll give you an example of another myth I talk about, which is a true story, of something that happened to me.
• 22:56
  Mita Mallick: Why are you asking for a raise?
• 22:57
  Mita Mallick: Your husband makes more than enough money.
• 23:00
  Mita Mallick: Why are you asking for a raise?
• 23:02
  Mita Mallick: Your husband makes more than enough money.
• 23:04
  Mita Mallick: And this is years ago, when I was having a performance review.
• 23:06
  Mita Mallick: I knew I was being underpaid, had done the research, all the things they tell us.
• 23:11
  Mita Mallick: What are the points on the board?
• 23:12
  Mita Mallick: Go during performance review time, make sure you have marketplace examples, understand how your role is valued in the market.
• 23:18
  Mita Mallick: And that was the response I got from my then manager, because he had somehow found out what my husband did for a living.
• 23:25
  Mita Mallick: And so what I talk about in that myth is that there is a myth that white women and women of color don't negotiate.
• 23:31
  Mita Mallick: Right, we do negotiate, and often we're gaslit, dismissed and minimized when we do, and so one of the things in that part of reimagined inclusion I asked leaders to do is really to think about their experience and their upbringing with money, because if we were uncomfortable with money and we weren't taught to talk about money, all of a sudden, when you come to ask me for a raise, why am I triggered versus, let's say, jim comes and asks me for a raise?
• 23:59
  Mita Mallick: Am I triggered when Jim asks me why or why not?
• 24:02
  Mita Mallick: And so in that case, what I just mentioned is many companies, silently and quietly, are doing pay equity analysis behind the scenes.
• 24:09
  Mita Mallick: Employees just don't know it.
• 24:10
  Mita Mallick: But it all really depends on like me as an individual, when you come and ask for your pay to be reviewed.
• 24:17
  Mita Mallick: Why am I triggered and how am I open to that conversation or shut it down?
• 24:23
  Mita Mallick: Because here's the thing to anyone listening If you were running a team today, please don't wait for HR to come and tell you your team is not being paid fairly and equitably.
• 24:31
  Mita Mallick: It's your job, right, it's your job.
• 24:33
  Mita Mallick: You have the data, the information and then bring your near HR partners and ask for help, but we're all waiting for someone to come tell us what to do.
• 24:40
  Mita Mallick: It's like no check your team, especially in this market.
• 24:43
  Mita Mallick: People are moving on.
• 24:44
  Mita Mallick: People are coming in, get it.
• 24:46
  Mita Mallick: Compensation can fluctuate as you bring in new team members, so it's your job as a leader to make sure your team is being paid fairly and equitably.
• 24:54
  Mita Mallick: It's that simple.
• 24:55
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, sometimes you have to tell the story of that too, I think in my experience I was definitely usually the one bringing it up, because I'm seeing people leave to go somewhere else, or I'm seeing people not have seen their roles, or I know from the data.
• 25:09
  Leigh Burgess: So it's the combination of the hard pieces as well as the observational, the tactical pieces which are roles and that is our job, I think, as leaders of others, is to advocate and to also bring up things that someone is not bringing up.
• 25:24
  Leigh Burgess: I think it's not easy in some organizations to do that.
• 25:27
  Leigh Burgess: I think you can, I think and that's not a reason not to do it Trust me, I'm not saying that but I think making sure that you do it in the way that is thoughtful and pragmatic within the institution that you're in.
• 25:43
  Leigh Burgess: I think the other thing that you said was talking about your money mindset.
• 25:46
  Leigh Burgess: If there's things that when things are coming up, you have to realize that, if it triggers to someone like when a female asks for a raise versus a man asks for a raise, why is it different that person, for example, that you were saying you were actually negotiating and doing what Alex Carter tells us all to do?
• 26:03
  Mita Mallick: Yes, Alex, yes, listen, she's in my book and my acknowledgments.
• 26:06
  Mita Mallick: She's part of my story to get my book published.
• 26:08
  Mita Mallick: Love it.
• 26:09
  Mita Mallick: Yes.
• 26:10
  Leigh Burgess: She makes it so obvious what you should be doing, but it doesn't feel it's simple, but not easy.
• 26:15
  Leigh Burgess: So I think it's simple in the sense of the context of what I need to do.
• 26:20
  Leigh Burgess: I need to negotiate, negotiate your worth Absolutely.
• 26:23
  Leigh Burgess: It doesn't feel easy, I think, especially for women and women of color to do that, and so I think that's where I think is just making sure the myth you just talked about that people hear.
• 26:35
  Leigh Burgess: You need to still do it, and you need to do it not only for you but for your team.
• 26:39
  Mita Mallick: And ask the open-ended questions.
• 26:40
  Mita Mallick: I've been in so many talent reviews as I'm sure you have in your career where I've heard things like well, mita is the primary breadwinner, we don't need to give her a retention bonus.
• 26:49
  Mita Mallick: Mita, oh, the 5% merit increase.
• 26:52
  Mita Mallick: You know that her husband, jim, is in sales and he's killing it.
• 26:55
  Mita Mallick: So we can move that down to 3%.
• 26:57
  Mita Mallick: Did you see?
• 26:58
  Mita Mallick: Mita carries a Birkenbag to work.
• 27:00
  Mita Mallick: I don't think she's here for the money.
• 27:01
  Mita Mallick: What Right?
• 27:04
  Mita Mallick: And we've all heard some sort of piece of those stories when we're sitting there.
• 27:09
  Mita Mallick: And so the question is well, tell me more about that.
• 27:13
  Mita Mallick: How does what you just described tie to Mita's day job?
• 27:17
  Mita Mallick: Let's go back to the metrics of what she's delivered, how she performed, how she performed, and so I think oftentimes, like you said, it's scary because I'm not going to deny that, particularly where you are in your organization, there's power, there's politics, there's privilege, but by asking simple and ended questions to say can you tell me a little bit more about that?
• 27:39
  Mita Mallick: As we're reviewing Mita's salary, can we go back to what she's done in this job versus her peers, versus her goals, and to just redirect the conversation, I've also been in situations where, back to the motherhood penalty.
• 27:55
  Mita Mallick: I've been in rooms where it's like well, I know Mita's up for this big promotion, but she just had a baby.
• 28:00
  Mita Mallick: She's not going to be able to travel.
• 28:01
  Mita Mallick: And let's stop and say, ok, have we asked Meeta that?
• 28:07
  Mita Mallick: Is that something that she shared with you?
• 28:09
  Mita Mallick: Or are we making decisions for her career without asking her?
• 28:13
  Mita Mallick: Because if Meeta was a man, that conversation would likely never happen.
• 28:17
  Leigh Burgess: Would not happen.
• 28:18
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, I heard someone say that day we're supposed to lead like we don't have a family and we're supposed to mother like we don't have a job.
• 28:23
  Leigh Burgess: There's some power in that.
• 28:27
  Leigh Burgess: I probably bumble it a little bit, but you got the sense of what I was saying.
• 28:30
  Leigh Burgess: The expectation of us.
• 28:32
  Leigh Burgess: We're supposed to forget the other half of this when we're in the situation that we're in and either we're not a good enough mother because we're paying too much attention to our job or doing too much with our job, or in a workplace we're thinking too much about our family or we're leaving early to go to the play or whatever, and I think that's also a big myth.
• 28:51
  Leigh Burgess: The balance, or what you're supposed to do 50-50, like we.
• 28:56
  Leigh Burgess: Just some days it's 80-20.
• 28:58
  Leigh Burgess: Like it's just.
• 28:58
  Leigh Burgess: That's the way it's got to be.
• 28:59
  Mita Mallick: Yes, yes, but I think sometimes it's like the double life, yeah, that the expectations.
• 29:04
  Mita Mallick: I remember starting my career and I'll never forget I worked for a woman who it was probably a year into the job that I found out she had children.
• 29:13
  Mita Mallick: Wow, that she never talked about her children at work ever.
• 29:16
  Mita Mallick: And so I was raised a bit like that, thinking I'm not supposed to talk about my kids at work because I don't see anyone else talking about them.
• 29:23
  Mita Mallick: And this was at the time beauty industry.
• 29:26
  Mita Mallick: And then I worked for a manager and she had four kids and talked about them all the time and I was like, wow, I guess you can talk about your children right, but it is.
• 29:34
  Mita Mallick: It's like trying to hide these parts of ourselves where I do think there's the fatherhood premium.
• 29:40
  Mita Mallick: Like a man talks about his kid, is it perceived differently than a woman does?
• 29:45
  Mita Mallick: And that's where I tell people it's like the amazing part of the human brain is like we can think all these things in our head and no one can hear them.
• 29:54
  Mita Mallick: So interrogate those thoughts and hold on to them and then make a different decision when you're ready to act.
• 30:02
  Mita Mallick: Right, because if we think that when Meeta talks about her kids, it seems like she's distracted, she's not committed.
• 30:10
  Mita Mallick: But when my husband talks about his kids, do we say, oh, father of the year, look at him putting in extra hours to watch his kids.
• 30:19
  Mita Mallick: Or like, no, no, he's not babysitting, they're his kids too.
• 30:21
  Mita Mallick: But like, those are some of the biases we have in our head and if we can be honest about ourselves, to like interrogate them and to debunk them, dismantle them in our heads before we actually act, that's the work I want people to do after having read the book.
• 30:36
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, excellent.
• 30:38
  Leigh Burgess: So I think that's a key point there too.
• 30:40
  Leigh Burgess: Sometimes the voice or the thinking is actually between our ears and it doesn't mean it doesn't exist out, but it maybe gets amplified internally first Like, oh, I can't ask for a raise, they'll think.
• 30:52
  Leigh Burgess: I'm a sister.
• 30:52
  Leigh Burgess: You know like it's a bold move to self-advocate it is, it is, and I think that's something I learned early on, and probably by my raising too, just by my parents, like I didn't think, I'd always felt like I belonged at the table, like what do you mean?
• 31:07
  Leigh Burgess: You don't want to hear my opinion, but that gets you in trouble.
• 31:12
  Leigh Burgess: You're in your 30s when you're in an organization that's not all about your opinion, and they don't.
• 31:16
  Leigh Burgess: They love what you do, but they don't want you to always be you Sure.
• 31:20
  Leigh Burgess: So I think there's a learning there.
• 31:21
  Leigh Burgess: But I think it is a bold move to think about what's coming up in my head, that's mine, and what is this?
• 31:27
  Leigh Burgess: You know, probably come from just what is an external expectation or a place where it actually isn't the right thing.
• 31:35
  Leigh Burgess: How we should be thinking, like you said, like if a man does this, it's wonderful, but if a woman talks about kids, oh, she's distracted.
• 31:42
  Leigh Burgess: Like that came up and I was like what you know?
• 31:44
  Leigh Burgess: Like where'd that come from?
• 31:45
  Mita Mallick: But we've been socialized right, there's been so much over the years, yeah, but you've been bombarded for years and years.
• 31:52
  Mita Mallick: Some of the things you've known and not known, right, media Walking down the street, family conversations, film, magazines I mean it is everywhere.
• 32:00
  Mita Mallick: And now, with social media and how social media has changed our lives over the last 10 years, you can't escape it.
• 32:06
  Mita Mallick: You just reminded me one of my.
• 32:08
  Mita Mallick: So people ask me what kind of music do I listen to right now?
• 32:11
  Mita Mallick: And I say I listen to what my kids are listening to.
• 32:13
  Mita Mallick: So my eight year old daughter is a big Taylor Swift fan and she loves the new song, antihero.
• 32:20
  Mita Mallick: Okay, and there's a line in it, if you've heard the song, that says hi, it's me, I'm the problem, it's me.
• 32:26
  Mita Mallick: And I keep thinking about that line a lot because it is how I felt most of my life and I talk about this in the beginning of reimagined inclusion that I've been chasing inclusion my whole life and I always thought I was the problem, right, like I needed to work harder, faster, better.
• 32:41
  Mita Mallick: I didn't do enough to fit in or belong.
• 32:43
  Mita Mallick: It was me, Like I needed to change me.
• 32:46
  Mita Mallick: And then there comes this point you say, wow, it's not me, I'm not the problem.
• 32:51
  Mita Mallick: I'm trying to survive, thrive in systems and processes that were never designed or meant for people who looked like me, and so there's this like moment I've had over the years thinking about that like wow, it's just this big awakening moment to think you know, you've spent your whole life thinking that you were the problem, when it's really that the world wasn't built for you and hopefully we're changing that.
• 33:18
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, or you might not be in the place that actually deserves your gifts.
• 33:22
  Mita Mallick: Yes, absolutely yes.
• 33:23
  Leigh Burgess: Because I think that's also something I think it comes with time too is when you're chasing something so hard and I think we get programmed to like the next level, the next role, the next title, the next race at least in my world it felt like you were just on those stair steps and if you weren't doing it, you were failing.
• 33:42
  Leigh Burgess: You get to a certain point.
• 33:43
  Leigh Burgess: I think, as a woman too, you're like okay, I'm looking around and I know that I'm working harder, or I know I've no more.
• 33:49
  Leigh Burgess: This is hard, yeah, but I'm still in a lower role and I've got to advocate for me.
• 33:54
  Leigh Burgess: So what advice would you give for someone, just in a sense of don't give up, but maybe figure it out differently, right, because maybe you're not in the right space or place or doesn't have to be leaving a place altogether, but what advice would you give someone to stop chasing?
• 34:09
  Mita Mallick: Stop chasing.
• 34:09
  Mita Mallick: I love that.
• 34:10
  Mita Mallick: One of the things I came to realize in my career and I talk about in Reimagined Inclusion is that I was over-mentored and undersponsored.
• 34:18
  Mita Mallick: I'll say that again over-mentored and undersponsored.
• 34:21
  Mita Mallick: And people come at me in social media when I say this listen, mentors are important.
• 34:25
  Mita Mallick: I have a lot of mentors.
• 34:27
  Mita Mallick: After this, we might be peer mentors for each other, like we might get to know each other.
• 34:30
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, but here's the thing you're never going to be my career sponsor.
• 34:33
  Mita Mallick: I won't say never, but not in this moment.
• 34:35
  Mita Mallick: You don't sit at my company.
• 34:36
  Mita Mallick: You're not two levels above.
• 34:38
  Mita Mallick: You don't have the political social capital to open doors for me to invest in my career to advocate for me and, as my career sponsor, gail Tifford, once told me, do you know who's talking about your career when the doors are closed?
• 34:50
  Mita Mallick: And I thought, god, doors are closed and people are talking about me.
• 34:53
  Mita Mallick: I had no idea, but I have been really lucky in my career lucky and I earned it.
• 34:57
  Mita Mallick: I've had a lot of great career sponsors and so we need help in our workplaces.
• 35:03
  Mita Mallick: I am tired, as a woman of color, of advocating for myself.
• 35:07
  Mita Mallick: We are all tired.
• 35:08
  Mita Mallick: We need people to help advocate for us.
• 35:10
  Mita Mallick: We need people to say our names when we're not in the room.
• 35:12
  Mita Mallick: We need people to know our value and worth.
• 35:14
  Mita Mallick: We need them to open doors to the C-suite, get us coffee with the CEO, get our name on the slate for a job that we didn't even know had opened up, get us on a special task force all of those things.
• 35:28
  Mita Mallick: That's what we need.
• 35:29
  Mita Mallick: We need to go from mentorship to sponsorship in our organizations, and so that's my advice to anyone listening.
• 35:35
  Mita Mallick: The question is is like, whose career are you fighting for other than your own?
• 35:39
  Mita Mallick: Like, who else are you trying to lift up in your organization?
• 35:42
  Mita Mallick: And then, for people listening who are looking for sponsors I've spent too much of my career with my head down.
• 35:48
  Mita Mallick: My dad rest in peace would always say to us keep your head down, work hard, stay out of trouble and you'll be recognized.
• 35:55
  Mita Mallick: I never looked up enough to be like, yes, my work is important, but people understanding the value of my work and impact is equally as important.
• 36:05
  Mita Mallick: Not just the work being able to advocate and tell the story, and so think about who in the organization needs to be knowing what you're working on, other than your boss.
• 36:15
  Mita Mallick: You don't need five career sponsors.
• 36:17
  Mita Mallick: You certainly need one or two.
• 36:19
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, I think I'm mentored out.
• 36:22
  Mita Mallick: Mentored out.
• 36:23
  Mita Mallick: Everybody's sponsored up.
• 36:24
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, like burned out, but I'm mentored out.
• 36:29
  Leigh Burgess: You know, I think I felt I always sponsored others, but I don't think the majority of my career anyone sponsored me.
• 36:36
  Leigh Burgess: I think I had a lot of mentors, but I think it was definitely something that is missing in a lot of organizations, so you also might have to be actively looking for your sponsor.
• 36:46
  Leigh Burgess: Don't think someone's going to assign you your sponsor.
• 36:49
  Mita Mallick: No, you have to be actively thinking about it and be strategic.
• 36:52
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, any key tips on finding the right sponsor or characteristics of a?
• 36:56
  Mita Mallick: sponsor.
• 36:57
  Mita Mallick: Yes, so one of the things.
• 36:59
  Mita Mallick: I'll give an example.
• 37:00
  Mita Mallick: I think examples work really well.
• 37:02
  Mita Mallick: So if I'm a senior marketing manager in an organization and I've been asked to do an analysis on our media investments for the last year what did we invest in and why?
• 37:12
  Mita Mallick: And like was their return on investment?
• 37:14
  Mita Mallick: Other than my boss, who do you think might be interested in that analysis?
• 37:19
  Mita Mallick: I think the chief financial officer, I think anybody in the finance office would be interested in that.
• 37:26
  Mita Mallick: So there's an opportunity for me to reach out to.
• 37:29
  Mita Mallick: Depending on the size of the company let's say it's a smaller company I could reach out to the CFO directly and say wanted to have coffee with you, wanted to share this analysis I'm working on.
• 37:39
  Mita Mallick: So I take a meeting to show the value of my work and what I'm working on.
• 37:42
  Mita Mallick: She is likely going to give me some advice and say oh, this is a great start.
• 37:47
  Mita Mallick: Why don't you do X, y and Z?
• 37:49
  Mita Mallick: And then I might say to her do you mind if I come back to you in a month and show you what I've been working on, or send you an update over Slack or email?
• 37:55
  Mita Mallick: And she'll be like yes, sure, and then slowly, over time, I'm building the relationship, I'm going to her with added value and I'm trying to think about where my work overlaps in the organization.
• 38:07
  Mita Mallick: Because here's the thing when I shine, you shine.
• 38:09
  Mita Mallick: If I'm working on something that her team is going to want to be involved in and credit for, she's going to want to seat at that table.
• 38:15
  Mita Mallick: And then, guess what, when there's a talent review and next time my name comes up, she's probably going to say I know Meeta, she's working on this great analysis I've been inputting and actually I do.
• 38:26
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, we should definitely put her name up for promotion, like I'm 100% supportive, right?
• 38:30
  Mita Mallick: So you're not going to get a sponsor just because you want to get a sponsor and it's not like the best for a necklace from high school.
• 38:35
  Mita Mallick: You don't run around saying, can I?
• 38:38
  Leigh Burgess: sponsor.
• 38:38
  Mita Mallick: You have to be no friendship relations.
• 38:40
  Mita Mallick: You have to be strategic about this.
• 38:42
  Mita Mallick: Think about and I can help anyone do this.
• 38:44
  Mita Mallick: You just think about what are you working on right now?
• 38:47
  Mita Mallick: What are your three to five priorities and projects?
• 38:50
  Mita Mallick: And, other than your boss, who else in the organization might be interested in this and that you might align yourself based on the work?
• 38:58
  Mita Mallick: Yeah, because here's the thing I've had a lot of great bosses and I've had a lot of not so great bosses.
• 39:04
  Mita Mallick: People would argue that your boss should be your career sponsor.
• 39:07
  Mita Mallick: That's not always the case, yeah, and sometimes, depending on your level, your boss might not be in the room when they're talking about promotions.
• 39:14
  Mita Mallick: It might be your boss's boss, right?
• 39:16
  Mita Mallick: That advice that Gail Tiford gave me I still think about.
• 39:19
  Mita Mallick: You have to actually think about who is actually at work.
• 39:22
  Mita Mallick: Do you know who's judging your work and who's rating you?
• 39:25
  Mita Mallick: Because if you don't know who's sitting at that table virtual table, doors closed you don't know who's advocating for you.
• 39:33
  Mita Mallick: You have to figure out who those people are and make sure at least one person in that room knows what you're working on and knows your worth and can tell the story.
• 39:41
  Leigh Burgess: Yeah, great tips.
• 39:42
  Leigh Burgess: So I am so excited for folks to read your book, to pre-order your book, learn more about the myths and make a difference and stop chasing.
• 39:50
  Leigh Burgess: So I think you know from the specifics of the book.
• 39:52
  Leigh Burgess: I think it will really help people understand some of the things that either come in externally or internally and how they are myths and how we actually can get a dent and some of the things that I think simply stated are possible, but they've for some reason become overly complicated and achieved in organizations.
• 40:11
  Leigh Burgess: So if we really want it, I think it's possible.
• 40:13
  Leigh Burgess: So thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge and sharing your hard work and expertise of your book.
• 40:19
  Leigh Burgess: Thank you so much for having me.
• 40:21
  Mita Mallick: I really appreciated it.
• 40:25
  Leigh Burgess: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 40:27
  Leigh Burgess: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 40:37
  Leigh Burgess: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 40:43
  Leigh Burgess: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.