Latest / Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman / Guest NATE LONGSHORE Explains QB and The Future of the Position Like You've Never Heard

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Guest NATE LONGSHORE Explains QB and The Future of the Position Like You've Never Heard · Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman

0:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Today on the show, a guy that I've wanted to have on for a long time, I don't think he knows that, but Nate Longshore, who a lot of you guys in the Bay Area, a lot of you football fans, the Bay Area will remember his great career at Cal, very highly touted quarterback coming out of Southern California, follows Aaron Rogers, sets Cal record, still in the Cal, near the top of the Cal record books, wins the conference.
0:22
[SPEAKER_01]: The old Pack 10 wins the conference championship, goes on to coach, goes on to start a VR football company, a technology football company, kind of on the
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: of the the front edge of football and technology things that are really hard to measure coaches and college for a while goes to Alabama and Oregon and UNLV is in Vegas now his website is QB method, which I would say like you can describe it better than me, Nate probably, but it's your public facing door to the training that you do for young and developing quarterbacks help guys get ready for the NFL draft helps guys get ready for up.
0:55
[SPEAKER_01]: for the college game, has forgotten I'm sure more football than any of us know, a quarterback expert, if there is such a thing, Nate, you can tell me, I think everyone's still trying to crack the code, but what I love about reading some of what you've been doing on social I know you've been going viral lately as well on your
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: with your ex-account is, you know, it seemed like the hardest thing is to quantify, build a system, find a way to define what makes a successful quarterback, and you teach guys how to get there.
1:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's great to have Nate Longshore on the show.
1:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we met several years ago when your coach at UNLV with Marcus O'Royo and soap and following your career a lot, just knowing you from the barrier and then getting to meet you a few years ago when you were coaching in college.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So great to have you met.
1:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm excited to be here.
1:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we went through growing up in L.A. My dad made us, we had to boycott when they moved.
1:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we picked up the 49ers where our team it just happened to coincide with a great run.
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've enjoyed a lot of winning with the 49ers.
1:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And once they move back, though, he found a way for us to move back to be L.A. fans.
2:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, ram fans are ready for ram fans are ready for ram's rams yeah, we didn't have the we didn't have the security to go those radar games
2:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but now you do I guess now you're now you're probably around the Raiders a lot.
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You played in the same stadium as that one.
2:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You're coaching at UNLV You know, it's it's interesting you bring up the Niners just because obviously we talk about them a lot on on this show and you and I talked the other day about about Product pretty and make Jones a little bit, but I think we talked about quarterback development and you wrote a great piece on your website about Sam Darnold You either day that I read and I wanted to bring up
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But like Alex, you know, you were here in the Bay Area, you registered it in 04 when Aaron Rodgers was at Cal.
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You watched that whole situation play out where he gets drafted or falls and gets drafted by the Packers and Alex goes number one.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Alex is, you know, kind of like Donald and this amazing example of
3:02
[SPEAKER_01]: a guy that didn't run out of time to reach his potential.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And you kind of, what do you, I know when you're in college, you probably, especially when you're like a freshman or sophomore, you're, I don't know what your view of the outside world is.
3:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you're playing for Jeff Tedford, that's intense.
3:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And who's a great quote, he is a great quarterback coach, but what was your view to your member as like a red shirt freshman at Cal watching all of that play out with Aaron and being here a nine of fan and Alex and all that locally?
3:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's interesting, when you're a kid, you're just drowning in the moment, right?
3:34
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just so many things, you have no real perspective of what's going on.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And we didn't really live in this 24 hour new cycle time.
3:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And so really you were limited to, you know, maybe the school paper would put out a football article on a Tuesday, it may be the Chronicle would do a Wednesday.
3:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you had to pre the lead up on Friday saturday.
3:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're catching like a handful of days of local media market attention even when we're making a run at, you know, we're fighting Texas to get into the reasonable and even then it's it's it's not every day you're not surrounded by it all the time.
4:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And so as a young player you're really just I got to get to the lift on time I've got to get to the meeting on time and what did he say about that cover two check that I I was half a sleep in that meeting But I know he's gonna ask me about it again today.
4:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So as a player Going through it.
4:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That's that's what I remember and then as a coach later on Seeing these guys.
4:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's even it's even worse now because of the exposure to social media and
4:41
[SPEAKER_02]: They never get away from it.
4:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not just a Tuesday Wednesday for ID Saturday thing.
4:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a non-stop.
4:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be two in the morning.
4:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you throw in the sports betters and then they're getting it before the game.
4:56
[SPEAKER_02]: After the game, make sure you hit your ovars, make sure you go for those target.
5:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's just so much access to these kids and the pressure from the outside noise, I'm sure is significantly overwhelming.
5:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And as we talk about the progression to who can, who can lead a franchise, I think there's a lot more maturity in these kids now, just from the weight and the volume of noise that they've had to deal with.
5:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's really impressive when you can see a guy like Mendoza keep it together and just stay consistent and stay authentic.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can only, you know, I'm sure you have to, a lot of people have you read or you see interviews that like Alex Smith did.
5:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I can only, at the time, it felt like the pressure of the world was on him, especially once he gets paid and people start saying, you're, I can only imagine, if it's even possible for, I bet if we asked him, is it possible to have felt more pressure than you did?
5:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The answer's probably no.
5:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet that was pre-Instagram DMs and you're right, the daily new cycle was very different, but I think the weight may be in a different way.
6:03
[SPEAKER_01]: might have been the same.
6:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought a good place to start with you other than that was just to ask this.
6:09
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think people who have never stood behind center or under center can't possibly imagine about playing quarterback at a high level?
6:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll give you two answers.
6:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll give you a fun one first, is that we've all seen in our favorite football movies and the quarterback goes up there.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: NFL.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: There's like 80,000 fans, 70,000, 60,000, but the acoustics are built to be extra loud and the sound systems are awesome, right?
6:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's quite a bit of noise and your brain does this funny thing and they show it in the movies and you think it's like cinematics, you know, but everything goes quiet.
6:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm not talking like, oh, just like muted, like dead quiet.
6:54
[SPEAKER_02]: and your brain does, it turns off that sense and you just, you can laser focus on the coaching points on the sequencing, on what the mechanics are for that play.
7:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And then as soon as the ball leaves your hands, your brain flips it back on, then a lot of times,
7:15
[SPEAKER_02]: you don't even see the result you hear the result.
7:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're waiting to hear like if it's in a way game, I want to hear silence when this play continues or if it's a home game, I'm looking to hear that that roar of the crowd of an explosive play or he made the catch or whatever it might be.
7:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So that part is a
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It is hard to understand, I think, as a fan, but it definitely happens and it's weird in the moment.
7:50
[SPEAKER_02]: The next part is just the layer on the processing side on the athlete development side is really just the processing and the layering of critical decisions that happen sequenced one after another so quickly.
8:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything from is the wide receiver aligned correctly.
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, where's the play clock at?
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I have to see, okay, what's the defense doing?
8:13
[SPEAKER_02]: What personnel is in on the defense?
8:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, I have the offensive coordinator chirping in my ear about, hey, make sure you remind the running back to, you know, check, check, check release off a Max Crosby, right?
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got all of these things happening.
8:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like a coordinated piece of madness.
8:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes you can skip through certain decisions and get to more important ones, but some plays, they're mentally exhausting.
8:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So not only are coaches structuring plays based off sequences in the drive, and how do we set this play up and that play up?
8:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's, we call them smoke breaks.
8:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you got to give the quarterback a great play.
9:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's a lot of gymnastics that just happened on those last few plays.
9:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, can we just hand one off for a minute and give them a breather?
9:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So there is, there is some real fatigue with when you just keep stacking up and depending on the experience level of the guy in the maturity and the time in the system, like you may have to do those,
9:25
[SPEAKER_02]: less critical plays more often.
9:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And then as they get older, like Tom Brady probably didn't feel the fatigue of of of of those tough plays over and over as opposed to maybe a rookie or a second year guide might.
9:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's funny.
9:42
[SPEAKER_01]: There've been a lot of talk around the barrier over the years, not so much this year, but in previous years about
9:47
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, whether or not Brock Perti as a specific and quote unquote, change the play.
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember asking about it this year, I was like, how do I describe what you're doing at the line of scrimmage?
9:57
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, don't use the word audible because it's not an audible.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, that's a little more old school.
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a check, like I'm just checking to the other option or I'm flipping the play.
10:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And Kyle Shanahan said a few years ago, he's like, you know, one game cut cousins really wanted
10:12
[SPEAKER_01]: to change plays of the landscape.
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I let him.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And he came back after the game.
10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, dude, that was exhaustive.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can have the play calling back.
10:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, you know, and I know there's different variations.
10:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm curious from your perspective, as someone who's worked with quarterbacks like at every level, when Philip Rivers played this year, there was this debate about, is this evidence that like nobody can play the position anymore?
10:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we had to go to this guy who's been retired as a grandpa to play the position or wasn't just a unique experience.
10:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, what's your perspective on like quarterbacking now versus, you know, I think, the, the, the, the, the, the paint manning style of, of quarterbacking.
10:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Could that ever come back?
10:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got this, there's this thing happening now at all levels where you have so many guys in transition.
11:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not just offensive, it's not, this isn't just an exclusive quarterback problem.
11:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It starts in high school, they're changing teams, they're in college, they're changing team.
11:10
[SPEAKER_02]: If they're any good, they're changing teams every year, you know, it's a down year.
11:14
[SPEAKER_02]: If you've got to stay put, there's what it's names like, you know, your market value is significantly higher to somebody else who doesn't have, you know.
11:22
[SPEAKER_02]: then you get so you're going through your career in these neutered systems because they've got to get the best guys like compound that over every position on the field not just offensive and so you're getting not only are you getting offenses that are a little a little less complex than they used to be but you're also getting defenses right on a man on third down you're getting man and man because
11:44
[SPEAKER_02]: they don't know all the defense they just got here six weeks ago and we got to put a minute because he's the only one that could cover you know so you have these guys with their whole career has been coaches trying to scramble to get them on the field so then they get to the NFL and it's like okay now you've got a four-year contract with a fifth-year option you've got a little bit more time to learn the system so they're getting more advanced
12:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they're finding out, well, these guys aren't really built for these advanced, like they've never had to learn in advanced systems.
12:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is, do we want to waste time trying to teach them how to learn this advanced system?
12:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of them just abort.
12:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, Now, let's just, let's give them what they know.
12:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Meet them where they're at.
12:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's build a system that works for them.
12:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's highlight their strengths and rather than, you know, hopefully they get it in a couple years.
12:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just, let's just rip and run and build it how it is right now.
12:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I think some of the smart coaches, some of the thought leaders are going to a system where there's really two check-check systems.
12:48
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got one where you're checking to avoid a disaster, right?
12:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, if this worst case scenario happens, right?
12:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So, let's say we have a limited protection, worst case scenario is a large pressure, right?
13:02
[SPEAKER_02]: High volume.
13:03
[SPEAKER_02]: we've got to get out of it or we're going to take a sec.
13:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we're going to check to some type of run into it.
13:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, some type of hot route, quick throw, whatever it might be.
13:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have those, those checks that are to avoid a problem.
13:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, you're getting some of the
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: more forward thinkers and you know I don't want to check just when there's a problem we want to check into a great play so we're going to put these we know this team likes this this exotic
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: split zone and there's a couple tells this back side safety really cheats when he shouldn't and so when we see that we want to advantage check into this for vertical scene play work that safety who's cheating with your eyes and then you should have a naked receiver up this backside seam and now we've got a 40
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, they like this and we don't know when it's going to show up, but I don't care if it's fourth and one, okay, if we've got the personnel on the field, we want to get to this play and make sure that they really pay for calling that defense.
14:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So those are kind of the two things that seem to be
14:22
[SPEAKER_02]: emerging right now, and they're not new theories, but it's kind of out of the old systems where the quarterback had everything on their plate and they were carrying multiple packages and checks systems into the game.
14:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's kind of okay, we need to avoid this and we're trying to find this.
14:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Other than that, normal rules apply and let's execute.
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But it kind of turns the NFL into a developmental league, which is not what the NFL
14:50
[SPEAKER_02]: is it's not it's not and with with the way the offensive coaches are kind of cheating the roster sizes now right they're adding offensive linemen into the game as tight ends they're adding 13 personnel high sets ever been in the in history of the game so the offensive coaches realize the constraints of of the personnel in the rules of the roster size.
15:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're getting to a place where it would really be who the NFL to have a minor league to have a, I mean, they're expanding the practice squad, which is great.
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: But you have those assets.
15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You might as well expand them to a full team.
15:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And play them like let them practice let them get live rep weed watch.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd watch there's developmental guys that you know are fresh out of college Hey, how is so it's so doing I'd be interested in seeing the the raiders practice quad versus the 49ers practice quad and it would kind of be fun if it was like
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: like a JV game almost like right if the big boys play Sunday like I watched saturday low preview you know could be kind of interesting there's some probably some strategy elements that would go into it like what are they running a lot of you know it would probably end up just being a mirror of each other right so you've got
16:13
[SPEAKER_02]: because the Raiders' practice squad has been run in the 49ers' crap all week and the vice versa, they're just gonna run them.
16:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a simulation flip of the game the next day.
16:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we do it better than you, you know?
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, it's funny, because especially after, you know, the 49ers played the C-Hawks three times this year and the feeling by the time they played the third time was like Mike McDonald's got their number or he's got the Shanahan offense figured out, which it's good for him if he does, because it's half the league.
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He also keeps hiring Shanahan offensive coordinators.
16:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, it's funny.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like he's got their number, but also he likes something about it.
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's definitely that tree, that West Coast tree is there's something to, I think the value is that it doesn't need
17:06
[SPEAKER_02]: the greatest quarterback.
17:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You need someone who can process, they've got the capacity to stack those decisions, and then they're accurate with the ball, which I think you're seeing, you know, Sam Donald is good, but he's not most expensive out there, you know, he's not, and, you know,
17:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, what system can we put in place that if we had a draft pick guy, if we had maybe that second tier that we still have a chance to win the Super Bowl, if he was accurate.
17:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's kind of why it's showing up.
17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of the Mac Jones trade lands to go back, right?
17:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think people felt like and probably rightly to use the third pick on Mac Jones would
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like based on what the talent profile generally is for a third pit crazy, but he went whatever he went 12 and turns out to be good and he's kind of trying to follow in the in the Donald thing.
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You wrote about Sam Darn.
18:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll read this for people.
18:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, your careers not to find by how fast you arrive.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's to find by how long you're willing to stay committed to improvement.
18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The lead college football even high school footballs full of players who were talented enough, but stop believing once things get hard.
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: For Sam, they got really hard.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like incredibly hard.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: For Alex Smith, they got incredibly hard.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Those guys are the exception to the rule.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, one thing Sam had Sam was young when he came into the league.
18:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Sam's under 30.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the hard thing about that.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think what you wrote applies to everything, not just quarterbacking, just the difference between quarterbacking and life is like you run out of time faster, generally.
19:00
[SPEAKER_01]: As a quarterback, because your physical skills diminished,
19:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's, it's pretty incredible to see how he, and I think that's, I think that's where it's interesting is, when you look at guys who rely on the physical traits of athleticism, I think those are impacted greater and take more of a physical toll because of the, the nature of the game, guys where they rely more on their, their arm and their,
19:33
[SPEAKER_02]: mental processing have a little bit of a longer tail.
19:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, I think those reps compound over time.
19:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think they do it other positions too.
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I always, when I'm going through the quarterbacks with a free draft prep and, you know, I'm like, okay, what's something you've heard?
19:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, well, we heard the game is just so much faster.
19:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And I use the example.
19:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, okay, the game is faster.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: The guys are not, but the game is because
20:01
[SPEAKER_02]: how many times as Ray Lewis fit the power, right?
20:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's not fast or 12 years, that as he is when he came in.
20:10
[SPEAKER_02]: However, his reaction and his instincts, he's unconsciously competent at fitting the power.
20:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And he may not even be able to tell you why he did it, but his body knows, oh, here comes this surface, here comes this polar eye fit here.
20:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I squeeze back side in.
20:30
[SPEAKER_02]: that happens pretty fast and the quarterback goes, wow, these guys are fast.
20:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, yes and no, they're compounding reps over time.
20:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when you get a guy who's relying on that ability and he's compounding reps over time, you know, that's why you see Aaron Rodgers still having success.
20:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he's not what he used to be by any stretch, but I think we would agree.
20:54
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't necessarily the reason the Steelers
20:58
[SPEAKER_02]: lost this year.
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And there were moments early in his career where he maybe could have willed them or athletically forced the win.
21:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you've got guys that
21:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, this guy's not going to be the reason why we lose.
21:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Like his athletic ability is not going to be why we lose.
21:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are really attractive.
21:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of think that's why the cults went with river.
21:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, hey, his physical abilities or limitations are not going to be the reason why we lose.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But his cognitive processing and his
21:32
[SPEAKER_02]: his experience could be a reason why we went and why he anticipates a throw and why he, you know, some of those look like he was playing at the beach with his kids, but they were right on the money and it's like, you know, how can a guy this long out of it?
21:50
[SPEAKER_02]: see it anticipated, throw it with any type of competitiveness, and it's that.
21:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It's those reps equal so much ability and so much value when it comes to making decisions that quickly.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, I called the Monday night game against the 40 matters for the cults and I walked out of there.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I get goosebumps now thinking about it.
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It was one of the greatest athleticity.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It was one of my, I don't, you could, we could get some argument where you rank it.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I just know, I walked out of the going, I've never seen anything like that and I don't think I'll ever see anything like that again.
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I was honestly a little emotional at how special I thought it was watching Philip play in person.
22:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I just was blown away.
22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely blown away.
22:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It was one of the greatest athletic accomplishments I've ever seen.
22:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the dichotomy of when he takes the field and he's warming up, right?
22:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, what are we doing?
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I've got the rec center right now.
22:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We're about to play the first number of the 40 up league, right?
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: No, when you see that guy strap on sneakers that you're like, I remember those shoes from 1990.
23:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he got the pumps on, right?
23:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's no doubt.
23:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And then just like the old guy, the rec, he's got the stroke from the baseline, right?
23:14
[SPEAKER_02]: He just spots up and every time he gets it, he's not going to down.
23:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a, there was pretty cool to see this year.
23:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what started out as a publicity stunt, I think a lot of people feel the way you did about, you know, there's something remarkable about, I mean, it didn't hurt that he got to extend the health care for another five years.
23:35
[SPEAKER_02]: That was actually, I was trying to do the math on that.
23:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, that's a multi-million dollar.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a power play right there, Philip, nice to done, sir.
23:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the rivers family, whoever's in charge of that account was like, oh, my god, you know, oh, you know, they just started having cranks.
23:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so it's like, oh, you're coming up with a bag and please don't let this happen.
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I think it's interesting that you work with young quarterbacks.
24:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you get a variety of guys, but you know, like I'm thinking about a guy you were around Jade and my ava, you and L. V. who's now at USC is, you know, he's not in this draft, but it'll be in the next one and, and, you know, very talented.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do wonder, and the combine is this week, the quarterbacks are gonna be on the field Thursday.
24:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think about two guys, we've talked about a little bit.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, Darnell's interesting because he's got a great arm, he's athletic, but he's also not his play style isn't Josh Allen, but Matt Jones and Brock Perrie.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when you coach young quarterbacks, I would imagine some of these guys think like physically,
24:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I can do with those, physically I've got with those guys got, and since you know what, I know you watch those guys because you watch it, you watch everybody, but like when you watch perity, what stands out to you, what, what, how is this, how do you put your finger on it, he to me, he's like a really good point guard.
24:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you've got a great point guard in basketball, you've got a chance, like he's going to distribute the ball, he's going to get you in the right place, he's going to make sure that he highlights what everybody is good at, you know, if there's, you've got a good big man in the police, he's going to get it to them, right?
25:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And you see that with the way that he finds a way to get kiddo the ball, when you see him extend plates and kind of, and go off-skrip and extend plays.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're seeing his creativity work and his leadership work.
25:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think at the core of it, the thing that's most impressive with him, I think he's just a winner, like to me, that's kind of what's exciting at the quarterback position right now when I was coming up and luckily when I was coming up, there was like this prototype that you had to be, you know, there was this height metric, this white metric, this
25:50
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all these benchmarks that you had to hit.
25:53
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to be able to see over the line and all these things.
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So as you see the position involved, it's cool because it opens the door to all those kids, those high school kids you're talking about.
26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, hey, man, look at this guy.
26:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I could do, you know, he's similar to me in size and stature and athleticism.
26:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if I work hard enough, I could do these things.
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: The secret is, there's something special happening, obviously, with Brock Perty, in his mind on every play, to be able to do what he does.
26:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a little bit more complicated than being whatever size he is and throwing the ball however he throws it.
26:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But the opportunity is there.
26:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's exciting.
26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it shows up across
26:42
[SPEAKER_02]: the league and it shows up across the sport at every level.
26:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got all these guys who who now believe.
26:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think kind of Steph Curry a little bit did this for basketball.
26:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Like created, I don't have to be six, six to make it.
26:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I could be really good with what I've got.
27:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I'm good enough, I'm going to be undeniable.
27:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's pretty, pretty special.
27:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think Brock's a great example of that.
27:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And then on the flip side, you've got Mac Jones, who is the prototype gone through some adversity with the injuries and gone through, you know, transitioning to another team and am I the backup, am I the guy, oh, I probably am one of the top 10 guys in the league.
27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's, let's see how it shakes out.
27:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got two great examples of
27:32
[SPEAKER_02]: of what the opportunity can be, if you're willing to just work and persevere and stay at it.
27:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that to me, that's exciting, not just as a fan, but as a coach, hoping that more kids are like, you know, I could see myself doing this, you know.
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and maybe now, I mean, I think there's a lot of, I do, aside from they can make money, but I think the NIL, while it takes from the Colorado states of the world, unfortunately, right, for the player who maybe now gets a chance, I was not highly recruited.
28:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm five eleven and a half Diego Pavia, or you know, the kid at Ole Miss, right?
28:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's not that, who's taller, but, but I could, I've got time to prove myself and to grow into,
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: This middle ground that like in baseball, sometimes you know, was called like a four-ay hitter.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you want a big leaguer, but you hit like 360, a triple-A every year, like what do we do with you?
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's like, well, I play a fifth-year college and I make $5 million, like that's what we do with me.
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And then maybe I've got a chance because I'm a head on my divide, you know, I'm a little older to go into the league and you know, whatever, be a backup or give myself a chance.
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: it's interesting the conversations that I'm having with guys transitioning into into college right now.
28:50
[SPEAKER_02]: The value of developing at a blue blood, which is everybody's dream, fresh out of high school, I want to be a Michigan man or whatever it might be, versus the value and
29:06
[SPEAKER_02]: potential trajectory of your career if you go get reps and get on the field and build that experience and develop and maybe not so much a glamorous school and let's say even, you know, the all-miscuit was fair estate, right?
29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So the path is almost unlimited of the way you could go to get to where you wanna be.
29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of fun that it is a little bit of a choose your own adventure, you know, and just because, you know, in the past, if you went a certain route, you were, that's where you were.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: If you didn't make it fresh out of high school, you probably didn't have a chance of getting to that dream school to that dream opportunity.
30:02
[SPEAKER_02]: access to the information and the access to the film.
30:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you have a good junior college year, there's every
30:08
[SPEAKER_02]: School of American knows about you if you have a great year at an NAIA school every coach in the country is going to know about you and they have tools where they can sort like hey pull up the best FCS receiver on 3rd third and long and Create a cut up of all his best plays and and staff meeting this afternoon we can watch it.
30:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, go because of all of that.
30:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I think these kids while it it's a bummer you're not getting the the offers you want at a high school
30:36
[SPEAKER_02]: that opportunity is there for the people that want to work.
30:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you're seeing that play out in real time.
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Cam Ward is one that all like Cam Ward, I don't think they threw the ball in high school, right?
30:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, so he goes to Washington State, which is not nowhere.
30:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that is, he went to Incarnit Ward.
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
30:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And then his coach the only reason it goes Washington State is Coach goes, you know, right.
30:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So Eric Morris goes in Carnot word to OCO Washington State.
31:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, well, yeah, come on.
31:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And then from there, Miami, they're the highest bidder, right?
31:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure that I'm pretty sure Carson Beck made more than Jackson Dart this year.
31:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think you're right.
31:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Riddle me that, Batman.
31:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I, I, I, I, I, the thing, I love when, um,
31:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Sando's tier list comes out in the NFL because it's to me it's better than right it's not about rank it like.
31:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I owe it what's interesting is that at the highest level.
31:35
[SPEAKER_01]: There are more guys a team would rather upgrade from.
31:39
[SPEAKER_01]: At quarterback then there are guys that a team truly wants to build around right like you get to a top 10 you go.
31:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, there's really like seven that are top 10 guys, but.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: someone has to be at 9 and 10.
31:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And these are the, this is the cream of the, like, this is the, like, it just to me is such an illustration of how hard it is and how situations are so, I've come to the conclusion, Nate, that like, we should all be so lucky as to be system quarterbacks.
32:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the thing you said about Brock is said as like, derisive and you're not, right?
32:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, no, what show me a team that want a championship without great players in any sport, right?
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't, you can't do Joe Montana, greatest of all time, up until Tom, I guess.
32:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, look at his offense, it was insane, right?
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, so we should all be so lucky as to be in a position to maximize our potential.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'm backing my way into the question, which is, is it even possible to do that to maximize your potential at quarterback without a system that highlights it?
32:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you overcome it and still be great?
32:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think those things are independent.
32:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I think quarterbacks don't typically get to choose the system, right, it goes the other way around.
32:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So the one that has to bend and make the system work,
33:03
[SPEAKER_02]: is the quarterback, and that's where they don't get the credit.
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you're a system quarterback.
33:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, no, no, I didn't pick this system.
33:09
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the, I was forced to learn it and execute it.
33:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Like imagine you go to get surgery.
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, oh, you're just copying this surgery.
33:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Someone else made up.
33:19
[SPEAKER_02]: But once you want the guy who can copy it the best, like, it seems like what we're looking for.
33:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I struggle with, I don't know how,
33:32
[SPEAKER_02]: in the modern NFL.
33:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got guys like my homes in Josh Allen.
33:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you wanna be the top guy right now.
33:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the top guy is the best operator of the middle tier.
33:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's where you're most likely to win a Super Bowl.
33:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Are we trying to win the Super?
33:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm, are we just trying to get pretty stats and say where the best?
33:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess individually they're trying to make the most money for their family, which is fair.
33:59
[SPEAKER_02]: but as far as wins and legacy goes, I think dominating that middle tier is really what we're all after.
34:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I bet if you would ask most of the owners and most of the general managers and the guy's making personnel decisions, I bet they don't want the highest paid best guy and maybe at any spot.
34:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how many,
34:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's going to be a while before we see the highest paid quarterback win a super bull.
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it may never happen again.
34:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's when you think about it in that sense, okay, so if you're the highest paid, you can't win.
34:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you really want to be the highest paid?
34:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's other ways to monetize, like, you know, would you rather Tom knows?
34:51
[SPEAKER_02]: He knew what he had to do towards the end to get it done.
34:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's interesting like you do have those top guys who who command in our worth the value of that their contracts are written, but it also you're taken as this is baseball with the unlimited checkbook, you know, that money is coming from somewhere and a lot of times it's coming from the guys are thrown it to and the guys that are block of for you and
35:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
35:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an interesting, it's an interesting spot that that football is in right now.
35:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be interesting to see what Sam Darnl does.
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He's made a lot of money.
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Certainly, he will be in a position to say, I need a new contract and it needs to pay me a lot more.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, 40, let's say, $45 million.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nowhere near the top of the market, but last night checked, it's still $45 million.
35:48
[SPEAKER_02]: know.
35:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the cap did just make a big jump.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
35:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Cap's gone crazy these last few years.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
35:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But when when it's 300 and you're taking 50, right, there's there's there's there's a lot of other guys that need money, you know.
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those Joe Montana teams.
36:04
[SPEAKER_01]: They're Eddie DeBarlow was not working with the cap.
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay, I'll finish with this.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The combines this week.
36:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I put you in the box with a general manager, you're like, all right, Nate, what are we?
36:16
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we even begin to identify?
36:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, like, the other question is like, you've sat there with a hall of fame or as a freshman, did you even, could you have identified?
36:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Here comes a future hall of fame or in Rogers.
36:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But what do you, what's on your checklist?
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you've got 67 QB traits on your checklist.
36:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved one.
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You said the best quarterback speak the language of evaluation.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was a great one.
36:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But how do you even begin to go down that checklist and use it in the real world to pick the best guy?
36:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So at the combine, you're gonna have these guys are working out.
36:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of performative, really.
36:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They're throwing routes to guys they've never met before.
36:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And coach has cones on the ground and there's no defense out there.
37:03
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not pressing off a leverage.
37:05
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not breaking on time.
37:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got the physical workouts to me
37:12
[SPEAKER_02]: are really, I'm looking for their reactions and their own personal standard, right?
37:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And the example is, and Aaron is a good example in the sense that he had his own standard to what a good throw was that wasn't related to what other people thought a good throw was.
37:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So he was looking to miss by four to six inches as opposed to wasn't catchable or not catchable,
37:41
[SPEAKER_02]: metric is catchable and then uncatchable.
37:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got a totally different standard.
37:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And do guys have their own standard?
37:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they excited when they make the right throw?
37:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You'd never see Aaron Rogers or a good thrower make a good throw and celebrate
38:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But look at that throw I just made like they're not surprised like that's what I was aiming there like of course the ball went there, right?
38:12
[SPEAKER_02]: As opposed to, you know, you shortly you shoot a full court shot and it goes in like you're pretty excited like I didn't think that was going to go in so there's those different you're looking for okay what is this guy expect out of himself when those physical workouts are happening like okay he does expect a lot from himself.
38:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's not, because the guy's going to run the wrong route.
38:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He's going to make you look bad.
38:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to airball a throw, because I thought you were breaking at 12 yards.
38:38
[SPEAKER_02]: That was 16 yards.
38:40
[SPEAKER_02]: The ball just bounced to yards in front of you like so it's going to get on the guy.
38:46
[SPEAKER_02]: that is also just trying to, you know, he's trying to live out his dream, too.
38:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's in a bad situation as well.
38:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never run this route, this guy just, just do it my best, right?
38:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Or, you know, it's more like those, those moments of leadership and those moments of accountability that that you're looking to see.
39:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, you want to see if the ball jumps off their hand and you want to see.
39:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You know does he this you control the force out of the ground like you know, there are times when you can see in T shirts and shorts like Some of the arms are not the same as the others.
39:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like and those will be obvious and then you make a note of it and then you're going back to see like is this the leader of our franchise You know
39:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So, if I were in a room and going through that with an owner, it's really like, hey, what do you need right now?
39:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have great veteran leadership in your locker room?
39:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Did maybe you need a playmaker, right?
39:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Or do you not have great leadership, but you've got a bunch of talent, and you've got a bunch of speed, and you really need somebody to study the ship.
39:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it didn't maybe this guy is what you're looking for.
39:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot to it when it goes into not necessarily the best player, but the best fit, and you may get to the point where I really none of these.
40:05
[SPEAKER_02]: None of these kids can fill the shoes that we need, but maybe a guy like Sam Darnold could, you know, maybe maybe fill a river's good.
40:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, not that one, but that's an emergency situation.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's so interesting.
40:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, God, that sounds great.
40:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're drafting third.
40:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he worthy of the third pick?
40:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, well, I mean, he's worthy of like the third pick in the third round and he's gonna be perfect.
40:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, well, Nate, he's not gonna last in the third pick.
40:31
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going 15.
40:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, oh, well.
40:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, that's the game, right?
40:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's all in perspective.
40:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't take any quarterbacks first ever.
40:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's two expenses.
40:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's, we're just rolling the dice.
40:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But you try to put all these metrics together, like, okay, is this guy have a chance, like, does Mendoza have a chance a year or two down the road to be in that middle tier, right?
41:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's how we're going to be paying them.
41:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, is he, can we build a roster with where he ends up?
41:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we build a roster around him to win the Super Bowl?
41:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And at that point, it gets kind of appealing, you know?
41:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, with where his, where number one money will be, what else is available that in that area, especially as we talk about two or three years from now, when he's gonna be locked in that number, you know, that's really like the sweet spot with these rookie quarterbacks.
41:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, do it if you're three, if they can not lose you the game, you're gonna have a chance.
41:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's really what they're, that's the game they're playing.
41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I will finish with this, but it's just so it's like, you know, the irony is what was miserable for Aaron was great.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, maybe Aaron would say, put me on the Niners watch.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have become a Hall of Famer on that team too.
41:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
41:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what makes that draft even with hindsight so fascinating.
41:56
[SPEAKER_02]: He's probably right, even so I think some guys are just destined for great.
42:02
[SPEAKER_02]: They just got that thing and I'm that just ticks a little bit different and they're going to find a way to be great, you know, Tom Brady bad situation found a way, you got Drew Breeze, a couple bad situations found a way to be great, I think some guys are just
42:19
[SPEAKER_02]: like they're not going to be denied and I hope I hope Sam keeps keeps going on this trajectory on this path and becomes one of the like the great stories like when that be cool when we all look back but I remember I remember the jets I remember all of it and we all looked each other like oh another yeah there's plenty of busts and like plenty of opportunities like compare guys like oh he's just like so and so there's more of those than they're like wow this guy became
42:45
[SPEAKER_02]: He became one of the greats and really it's sorry.
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say it really is what comes next like you want the championship and then you don't get back put five more years of just like being 13, you know, 10, 12, 15 went like you look back and whoa, like we kind of thought even that one year maybe wasn't aberration and no it turned out he totally changed.
43:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a red.
43:06
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, I appreciate I've taken a lot of your time.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Pleasure.
43:11
[SPEAKER_01]: QB method dot com.
43:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Young quarterbacks quarterback training, but I think if you're just a football fan, you love quarterback and Nate's got a lot of great articles, defensive break now.
43:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you do Mike McDonald analysis of it?
43:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We're all, I'm going to, we're all spent in the summer trying to figure that out.
43:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you do that one?
43:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing a sim pressure.
43:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So he has a lot of simulated pressure.
43:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing a Thursday night.
43:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We're doing a little live QB room session on on some peer progressions to beat those sim pressure.
43:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's funny about that.
43:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good.
43:40
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Nate, I appreciate it, man.
43:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Pleasure.