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Ohio State Football: Is Depth A Concern At Defensive End? · Buckeyes TomOrrow Morning

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to buck Eyes tomorrow morning for Thursday, February twentieth,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Tom Or the Texas game in one
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  Speaker 1: hundred and ninety one days, the game against Michigan in
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  Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty two days. If you're planning your
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  Speaker 1: next event, well you should make it unforgettable with Grateful Griddle,
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  Speaker 1: On today's show, are going to be talking about the
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  Speaker 1: Ohio State defensive end position. Buckeyes lost three players, three
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  Speaker 1: veteran players from that defensive end rotation, JT. Twemlowow, Jack
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  Speaker 1: Sawyer and Mitchell Melton. They've got feeling pretty good. I
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  Speaker 1: think about the top two guys in the rotation there
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  Speaker 1: that are going to be replacing those those departing starters.
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  Speaker 1: But man, behind that, there are some question marks. So Tony,
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  Speaker 1: let's start with the two guys who I think probably
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  Speaker 1: you and me and everyone else is probably feeling relatively
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  Speaker 1: confident in Kenyada Jackson and Caden Curry. Those are both
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  Speaker 1: guys who took on bigger roles this year Kenyata Jackson
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  Speaker 1: in particular, Man, did he come on strong this year.
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  Speaker 1: It feels like, in terms of just the starting two
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  Speaker 1: defensive ends, Ohio State's gonna be feeling pretty good about
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  Speaker 1: things heading into the twenty twenty five spring ball.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean you're talking about two guys and cad
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  Speaker 2: And Curry and Kenyatta Jackson, who are basically the backups
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  Speaker 2: the last two seasons. So they've been preparing and getting
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  Speaker 2: ready and showing what they can do, and I know,
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  Speaker 2: I think everybody's excited to see what they can do
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  Speaker 2: with a full complement of reps. And even writing about
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  Speaker 2: this on Monday, I think I called these two guys
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  Speaker 2: the free space on the bingo board basically when you're
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  Speaker 2: talking about what's going to happen at a defensive end.
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  Speaker 2: Cad and Curry had twenty two tackles last year, Kenyatta
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  Speaker 2: Jackson sixteen. They both had three three and a half
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  Speaker 2: tackles for lost couple of sacks in some spare spare
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  Speaker 2: playing time in some of those games. But yeah, I'm
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  Speaker 2: fascinated to see what happens with their production. They're playing
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  Speaker 2: time and really, how I guess all of these guys,
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  Speaker 2: and maybe it's something we can talk about later how
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  Speaker 2: all of these guys fit into new defensive coordinator Matt
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  Speaker 2: Patricia's scheme. Though I'm not expecting too much different than
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  Speaker 2: what we were seeing towards the second half of last season.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something I was going to get to
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  Speaker 1: a little later, but let's just get to it right now.
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  Speaker 1: Because Patricia, you have seen him play a bunch of
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  Speaker 1: different fronts. And I talked to Ross Fulton about this
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  Speaker 1: on one of the shows last week, but it's been
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  Speaker 1: he uses some odd fronts. It's not just the four
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  Speaker 1: down that you sort of saw for Ohio State from
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  Speaker 1: about twenty fourteen on until about middle of last season
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  Speaker 1: pretty consistently, you did see some different looks up front.
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  Speaker 1: And while I think you're gonna I mean you, what's
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  Speaker 1: the expectation going into the spring. Is it going to
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  Speaker 1: be sort of a continuation of the back half of
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  Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four season. Is it going to be
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  Speaker 1: different from that? Is it going to be a return,
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  Speaker 1: you know, return with a v to the to the
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  Speaker 1: twenty to the four down look, four down, one gap?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, like, what's the expectation?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think you'll see continue to see
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  Speaker 2: some multiple stuff, but High State's not really equipped to
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  Speaker 2: go to like a three four or three three, Like
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  Speaker 2: they don't have the defensive ends. They don't have like
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  Speaker 2: three four defensive ends. They've got four to three defensive ends,
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  Speaker 2: which are that's what they've always said, like the three
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  Speaker 2: four defensive ends are more like, you know, like a
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  Speaker 2: Draymont Jones playing three playing defensive end rather than three tech.
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  Speaker 2: And they don't really have those guys. They've got the
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  Speaker 2: guys who are you know, two hundred and sixty pounds
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  Speaker 2: two and fifty pounds rather than two hundred and eighty pounds.
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  Speaker 2: So I think what you'll see is they'll certainly do
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  Speaker 2: some interesting things. And Larry Johnson has had no issue
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  Speaker 2: putt those two hundred and sixty pound guys on the
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  Speaker 2: interior four passing downs in the rushman package. But I
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  Speaker 2: am interested to see if in some of those three
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  Speaker 2: down sets, who is who is the guy that is
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  Speaker 2: on the edge in terms of is it a linebacker,
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  Speaker 2: is it you know, the CJ. Hicks, Is it a
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  Speaker 2: sunny styles? Like what are they doing along with those
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  Speaker 2: three down linemen? And I do expect them to be multiple,
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  Speaker 2: because I think you have to be nowadays, especially when
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  Speaker 2: you want to get as many guys as playing time
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  Speaker 2: as you can. But you know, well, we'll know more
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  Speaker 2: when when we see it in what fall camp, Because
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  Speaker 2: what are we going to see in spring cat camp
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  Speaker 2: that we can really say, oh, so that's what the
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  Speaker 2: defense is going to be. It's like, that's way too early.
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  Speaker 1: Donate the question, the question of the spring, will we
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  Speaker 1: see the jack answer almost certainly not question mark probably not.
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  Speaker 1: I mean no more than we have in previous seasons,
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  Speaker 1: I guess. So. Yeah. It's interesting because you could if
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  Speaker 1: if you were going to go to a real true
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  Speaker 1: three to four, you could say, like, well, maybe they
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  Speaker 1: do have a three four defensive end on the team,
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  Speaker 1: and his name is Edrick Houston, but you just have
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  Speaker 1: to kick him back out from three tech to a
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  Speaker 1: you know, to a three four defensive end. They have
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  Speaker 1: guys who could do that, and you've got Kaden McDonald
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  Speaker 1: who could play the nose in a three four, But
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  Speaker 1: you don't necessarily have the depth of pieces that you
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  Speaker 1: would need to do that. So you know, there is
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  Speaker 1: a way you could having the Edward Houston is a
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  Speaker 1: defensive end conversation and lump him in the show, or
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  Speaker 1: to your point, you could lump c. J. Hicks into
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  Speaker 1: the show because he could I think there's a decent
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  Speaker 1: possibility we see c. J. Hicks coming off the edge.
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  Speaker 1: But you know, we'll we'll discuss him in the linebacker
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  Speaker 1: show for now and then be ready to have and
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  Speaker 1: oh my goodness, can you believe c. J. Hicks is
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  Speaker 1: with the defensive line now show, you know, potentially two
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  Speaker 1: practices into spring, we'll we'll see how that goes. But
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  Speaker 1: on to the next kind of the next sort of
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  Speaker 1: subset of guys in that defensive end rotation. And these
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  Speaker 1: are two guys who have been on campus for a
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  Speaker 1: year or two. Josh Mickens Dominic Kirks. Kirk's showed up
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  Speaker 1: during this the summer last year, and you know, really
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  Speaker 1: that that sort of sets you back. So he didn't
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  Speaker 1: not have a huge, you know, a huge impact first season.
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  Speaker 1: Josh mckens, you saw a little bit more. But he's
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  Speaker 1: someone who's really going to have to you know, both
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  Speaker 1: of those guys really are guys who are going to
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  Speaker 1: have to step up because now you've gone from your
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  Speaker 1: you know, you're in that third team kind of group
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  Speaker 1: of defensive ends to now now that you're probably well
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  Speaker 1: in the two deep or fighting for a spot in
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  Speaker 1: the too deep, and that means you got to be
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  Speaker 1: ready to play, and that's going to be a big
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  Speaker 1: step forward.
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  Speaker 2: Both of those guys, for sure, you're talking about those
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  Speaker 2: two guys are the next most experienced returners other than
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  Speaker 2: Kayden Curry and Kenyatta Jackson. And they combined for like
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  Speaker 2: thirty two snaps last year, and I think I think
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  Speaker 2: Dominic Kirks had like five or seven of them and
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  Speaker 2: Josh Mickins had the rest. And there's not not a
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  Speaker 2: lot of playing time between those two guys, but now
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  Speaker 2: there's a huge opportunity for them to blossom. And it'll
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  Speaker 2: be interesting to see, like how big is Dominic Kirks
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  Speaker 2: now as well, because he's a guy that came in
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  Speaker 2: at like two hundred and fifty five pounds. Is this
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  Speaker 2: guy that eventually becomes a three tech or tom a
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  Speaker 2: three four defensive end because he's like he is a
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  Speaker 2: big guy. And I remember talking to Larry Johnson many
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  Speaker 2: years ago about Dreymont Jones was coming in off of
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  Speaker 2: like an acl or broken leg from a basketball injury,
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  Speaker 2: as a true freshman, Like, so, where do you see him?
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  Speaker 2: He's like, no idea until he gets in here and
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  Speaker 2: we see how big he gets once he's ready to go.
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  Speaker 2: And you saw he pretty much he was a freshman
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  Speaker 2: All American as a recherd freshman on the interior because
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  Speaker 2: he was you know, he was a terror. But these
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  Speaker 2: two guys, I'm fascinated to see what they can do
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  Speaker 2: and if they can hold off the guys behind the
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  Speaker 2: new guys. And I'm sure one in particular that we'll
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  Speaker 2: talk about.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that new guy who's not entirely a new guy.
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  Speaker 1: He's not new to college football. He's just new to
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  Speaker 1: college football in Columbus, Ohio Logan George. He's a transfer.
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  Speaker 1: He's a transfer from Idaho State, which is not exactly
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  Speaker 1: a you know, parallel move or a lateral move from
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  Speaker 1: Idaho State to Ohio State. It's kind of to me
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  Speaker 1: a question mark, Like he was a productive player, but
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  Speaker 1: that's at the FCS level, and then the question is, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: how does that translate to the FBS level, and not
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  Speaker 1: just the FBS level, but the high high power conference level.
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  Speaker 1: But he's someone who they're going to probably have to
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  Speaker 1: lean on a little bit because this is this is
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  Speaker 1: kind of outside of you know, potential linebacker kind of
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  Speaker 1: moves or a defensive tackle moving back to defensive end.
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  Speaker 1: This is the end of guys who have stepped on
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  Speaker 1: a college football playing field conversation. You know it, you
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  Speaker 1: know names in terms of this whole conversation.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Logan George leaving the Potato state for the Potato
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  Speaker 2: chip state. As we all know, Ohio, that's that is
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  Speaker 2: the state. Bird is the Potato Chip. Logan George fifty
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  Speaker 2: six tackles last year, eighteen and a half tackles for laws,
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  Speaker 2: six and a half sacks, a bunch of quarterback hurries.
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  Speaker 2: And it'll be interesting to see where he starts out
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  Speaker 2: in spring practice and where he ends up. And you
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  Speaker 2: say the same thing for fall camp as well. But
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  Speaker 2: also he's a guy that I would expect. What does
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  Speaker 2: his season look like? Where you're gonna get better and
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  Speaker 2: better as the season goes, but also you're playing easier
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  Speaker 2: competition earlier in the season generally, Now opening with Texas
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  Speaker 2: is kind of not quite that. But how much better
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  Speaker 2: or does he get over the course of the season,
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  Speaker 2: and then by the end of the season, is he
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  Speaker 2: one of your three best is like, is he in
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  Speaker 2: the full rotation at that point? Because I kind of
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  Speaker 2: think they need him to be based on the depth
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  Speaker 2: and the experience that they have, And I don't think
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  Speaker 2: they would have gone into the portal for him if
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  Speaker 2: they didn't think that he could be that or that
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  Speaker 2: they or that they needed it. You know, they definitely
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  Speaker 2: need it.
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  Speaker 1: They definitely need it, And just the fact that they
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  Speaker 1: went into the portal for him is kind of intriguing
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  Speaker 1: because it's you know, that's Idaho State is not exactly
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  Speaker 1: a transfer portal pipeline school for Ohio State. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: you might think, like with Philip Daniels, for example, the
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  Speaker 1: right tackle who is at Minnesota, but he's an Ohio guy. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: is logan Georgian Ohio guy. No Pocatello, Idaho, which is
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  Speaker 1: not really any closer to Ohio State or Columbus than
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  Speaker 1: Idaho State is. So this is this is someone who
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  Speaker 1: they kind of went in and looked at and went, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: this is this is someone who really does potentially fit
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  Speaker 1: and could be an impact player or at least certainly
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  Speaker 1: a rotational player this year. So he's gonna be that's
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  Speaker 1: going to be a fascinating thing to watch, and we'll,
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  Speaker 1: you know, we'll probably do a show at some point
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  Speaker 1: on you know, the guys with the most on the
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  Speaker 1: line or the guys who are the most potentially to
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  Speaker 1: gain this spring. I think he's going to be on
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  Speaker 1: that list for me, because, boy, if he shows he
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  Speaker 1: can stand up to big, ten sized offensive tackles, boy,
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  Speaker 1: that's that could be an enormous edition for this team.
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  Speaker 1: But you just you don't know until you see it.
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  Speaker 1: So we'll we'll be watching that one this spring. Two
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  Speaker 1: other guys who are coming in as true freshman this year.
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  Speaker 1: Let's start with Zion Grady. He came in from Alabama.
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  Speaker 1: That's a place that's a state that Ohio State has
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  Speaker 1: not pulled in a recruit a high school football player
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  Speaker 1: from the state of Alabama since at least nineteen eighty one,
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  Speaker 1: and quite possibly before that because the guy from nineteen
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  Speaker 1: eighty one the story is a little murky there. So
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  Speaker 1: this is this is a spot where Ohio State goes in.
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  Speaker 1: They have really not had any real history there and
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  Speaker 1: they pull Zion Grady out and he's someone who you know,
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  Speaker 1: he's a bigger dude, so he could potentially be someone
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  Speaker 1: who's at least getting some reps earlier, because you don't
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  Speaker 1: necessarily have that. You know, hey, you got to take
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  Speaker 1: a year or so to develop physically before you're ready
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  Speaker 1: to step on the field.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's already like ohigh State lists him at six
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  Speaker 2: four to forty, but that's like the recruiting site list.
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  Speaker 2: So it'll be interesting to see when they're finally as
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  Speaker 2: a spring roster in about I don't know, two weeks,
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  Speaker 2: three weeks, three weeks. When we get to see the
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  Speaker 2: current heights and weights and measurements, it's always a great day,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the new phone books are here, that sort
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  Speaker 2: of thing, And I'll be interested to see where he is.
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  Speaker 2: And because like there are some guys like Josh Mickens,
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  Speaker 2: for instance, was listed to like two twenty five, two
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  Speaker 2: thirty his freshman year, and you knew, like, well, that's
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  Speaker 2: gonna take that's gonna take some time just to get
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  Speaker 2: him where they won them. And I think Zion Grady's
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  Speaker 2: closer to that. And you know, he's a productive high schooler,
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  Speaker 2: which is always it's always kind of fishy when you
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  Speaker 2: see these guys who are like four or five star
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  Speaker 2: guys at the defensive end, and they had the like
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  Speaker 2: three and a half tackles for loss, and it's like, why,
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  Speaker 2: what what is it that? Is he just a camp guy?
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  Speaker 2: Because if he's just a camp guy, then that's a concern.
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  Speaker 2: But he's definitely not been that. You know, He's post
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  Speaker 2: to one hundred tackles the season as a defensive end
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  Speaker 2: in high school. So he's he's tenacious. I'm I think
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  Speaker 2: I think he's got a pretty good chance to play.
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  Speaker 2: You you ran a bonus episode of the Skull Session
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  Speaker 2: Mark Mark Givler's Skull Session recruiting podcast where he and
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  Speaker 2: I talked about the five biggest impact the five freshman
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  Speaker 2: who could have the biggest impact, and Zion Grady was
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  Speaker 2: one of my five and and he was just outside
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  Speaker 2: of March five. But wanted to put him in there,
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  Speaker 2: but it felt he had to put an offensive guy
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  Speaker 2: in there just because and not Grady out. But I
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  Speaker 2: think he's got an opportunity to go ahead and make
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  Speaker 2: some noise this year.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And in addition to being physically maybe kind of
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  Speaker 1: a little more ready to step on the field early
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  Speaker 1: and being contribute early, he also has the advantage of
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  Speaker 1: being already in Columbus that is an enormous difference in
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  Speaker 1: terms of your likelihood of playing and being a meaningful
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: contributor in your true freshman year. Virtually everyone in this class,
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  Speaker 1: I think there are only three exceptions. Virtually everyone is
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  Speaker 1: already on campus. But the last guy we're going to
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  Speaker 1: be talking about at Pie Saitanola, he is not now.
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  Speaker 1: He was a late flip from UCLA and he is
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  Speaker 1: going to be enrolling in June. He's someone that when
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  Speaker 1: I talk to Larry Johnson about him, Larry Johnson was
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  Speaker 1: really excited about him, thinks he could be a really
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  Speaker 1: really special player down the line. But when you're coming
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  Speaker 1: in as a true freshman and you're enrolling mid year,
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  Speaker 1: that kind of puts you a little bit behind the
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  Speaker 1: eight ball in terms of being able to contribute in
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  Speaker 1: year one.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's also got it, probably needs to get
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  Speaker 2: bigger in terms of adding weight. You look at his
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  Speaker 2: senior games as highlights, and you can see like he's
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  Speaker 2: going to need to get bigger. He's got a decent
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  Speaker 2: frame for sure. I mean he's listened to six four
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  Speaker 2: two twenty five, but you know that's I'm sure he's
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  Speaker 2: going to be heavier when he arrives than that, so
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  Speaker 2: he'll be closer to play time. But you know, we
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  Speaker 2: talk every year about this five star guy, this four
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  Speaker 2: star guy, but they're not going to be in here
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  Speaker 2: till June. So that's you know, just go ahead and
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  Speaker 2: put the mark mark him as a likely red shirt
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  Speaker 2: at that point, And especially when you're talking about a
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  Speaker 2: team that has as much talent as Ohio State does,
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  Speaker 2: like it's going to be difficult to get on the
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  Speaker 2: field for some of these guys, even with some of
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  Speaker 2: the lack of depth that that we've talked about. But here,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know that you need to red
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  Speaker 2: shirt him, but if if it happens, I wouldn't be shocked,
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  Speaker 2: just to just so you're not wasting quote unquote wasting
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  Speaker 2: a year putting him out there when maybe he's not ready.
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  Speaker 2: And Larry Johnson's always talking about with his freshman he
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  Speaker 2: wants he only wants them to play in situations where
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  Speaker 2: they can be successful, So that kind of narrows things down,
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  Speaker 2: especially for a June en Roly for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that feels like that's that's always sort of one
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  Speaker 1: of those things that we look back and at after
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  Speaker 1: the year. It's like why did this guy not play
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  Speaker 1: as much as like, well, he showed up in June
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  Speaker 1: and that that just makes such a difference. And it's
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  Speaker 1: one of the reasons that you know, the early and
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  Speaker 1: Roly thing is kind of now just sort of the
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  Speaker 1: on time en rollly. That was such a groundbreaking thing
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  Speaker 1: when it first started twenty something years ago. More Claret
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  Speaker 1: the first guy I can remember doing that, and it
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  Speaker 1: was such a groundbreaking thing. And now it's just everyone
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  Speaker 1: does it except for a small handful of guys. And
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  Speaker 1: usually it's something where you know, your high school doesn't
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: let you graduate early or something like that, So it
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  Speaker 1: is it is definitely the exception. We will see the
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  Speaker 1: rest of the guys though. This spring should be a
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  Speaker 1: really really that's gonna be one of the many, many
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  Speaker 1: interesting positional battles to watch. Where As Tony said earlier,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you feel like you know who the starters are, but man,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: everything behind that. Man, that's going to be interesting to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: watch how that thing all sorts itself out. And then
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: potentially do they go into the portal and bring in
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: someone else after the spring or do they feel like
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: they're content and happy with where they are. So we'll
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: be following all of that stuff and plenty more positional
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: battles as well. All at puckehaddle dot com all spring long.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: That'sh Tony, Kevin and I cover the team, Mark covers recruiting.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: We got our whole team Vans and those gurus there
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: as well to make you a smarter football fan. That's
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: all at puckehuddle dot com. We hope to see you there.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Let us do it for today. Thank you guys all
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: for joining us. Have a great day. We'll talk to
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: you tomorrow.